The Cardinals and Jason Heyward have yet to engage in any “substantive talks” about a contract extension, the outfielder tells Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. The Cards also haven’t applied any particular pressure to delve into negotiations, which is just how Heyward likes it:
“At this point, I think both sides are OK with that, OK with where things are right now. Both sides want to make sure everybody is happy. That’s really what they’ve been asking me about the whole time. ‘Hey, you like it here? Hey, you comfortable?’ They want to make sure I feel at home, make sure I can be myself, and that’s been their focus. They’ve allowed me the time to fit in. That has meant a lot.”
It could be argued that the Cardinals haven’t pursued negotiations since Heyward isn’t in their future plans, though Goold writes that both the Cards’ ownership and front office is interested in a long-term deal. While St. Louis hasn’t hesitated to let notable names such as Albert Pujols or Carlos Beltran leave in free agency over the years, the club has also moved to lock up other key players either just prior to free agency (e.g. Yadier Molina, Adam Wainwright) or once they’ve actually hit the open market (i.e. Matt Holliday).
Goold cites the Holliday signing as similar to Heyward’s situation — a trade acquisition the Cards “wanted…to get to know the club first.” It wouldn’t make much sense for Heyward to sign an extension this close to free agency, but he seems impressed enough by the Cardinals that he could lean towards re-signing this winter.
In his latest 2016 free agent power rankings, MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes rated Heyward as the player with the second-most earning potential on the open market this offseason (behind only David Price). While Heyward hasn’t developed into the star slugger many projected he would become, his still-solid bat, elite defense and youth (he turned 26 yesterday) could put him in line for an eight-year contract, which Dierkes estimates could be in the $180MM range. That would easily be the most expensive contract in Cardinals history, far eclipsing Holliday’s seven-year, $120MM guaranteed deal from the 2009-10 offseason.
Have felt for months that Heyward would resign with them.
He had some nice comments in spring training about how the Cardinals players welcomed him to the team – and fitting with today’s story, just making sure he’s comfortable to be himself. Nothing new really, the Cardinals have done that with acquired veterans for quite some time now. Players love it when they get there. With Heyward’s personality and game (he is a very smart man and a high baseball IQ player) he and the Cardinals are a perfect fit. Perhaps he goes somewhere else. But if the Cardinals offer is in the ballpark, it would be out of character for him go sign a 6-8 year contract to play somewhere that he wouldn’t be happy at within a few years.
Arrogance like that is why the Cardinal fans are so despised. No player not in a Cardinal uniform is happy. Right.
You seem overly sensitive. Vandals didn’t show any arrogance in his post. These threads are littered daily with “He’s a perfect fit for” comments about many players & teams.
The truth is that the MO/KS/AR/OK area is just a hot bed of passionate baseball. It’s showing up in KC again now as well. Baseball is on par with football in these areas even in youth sports. The area has produced maybe the countries greatest talent by size and region
I respect the Cardinals and their team and the history…but sometimes their fans come off like yupster Red Sox expatriates. As if they’re the REAL baseball fan. I’m not trolling….any fan base has its truth behind a stereotype… But the idea that the Cards are some small market homegrown all American grassroots phenomenon is absurd. It’s a great organization worthy of its fans…but the fans often are a little too long love with BEING Cardinal fans
That’s your national media narratives, just like the “Cardinal Way”. Real Cardinal fans laugh at all of that, including the whole “Best Fans in Baseball” your national media shoves down your throat. Really 99% of Cardinal fans are just like fans of every other team and don’t really care about the general perception of the fan base.
I’m in the St. Louis region…its hard to really explain the fan base.. Because some of the best fans I know are Cardinal fans…they’re good baseball fans. They are smart…I was in the old stadium one day when Reggie Sanders was given a standing ovation just for hustling after a foul ball he ended up missing. That’s just fact. But there is an element there that does have a bit hipster as well. But, honestly… That’s Cubs fans too…a friend of mine is 87…been a Cubs fan since 1945…best fan I know. Truthfully, teams likely have about the same % of actual solid fans…just some have that fair weather element
Every fan base has a fair weather element. When your team is bad attendance and TV ratings go down, it’s no secret. My favorite team has it’s flaws like every team, they’ve just been lucky to be successful for an extended period.
And when you’re successful, people find a reason not to like you.
I really have to relate modern Cardinal fandom to post McGwire, because there was a massive lull prior. The park was half empty alot. I’d also say its a bit of a response to the Ken Burns angle on “Baseball” that seemed to have such a bias toward the east coast. It’s as if St. Louis is the mouthpiece for the Midwest baseball fan in general. I think we saw a little bit of this attitude at the perceived coastal/city bias lash out during the recent Kansas City all star voting situation. Truth is…its not just St. Louis fans…its just that the Cardinals until recently have been the voice due to their success. KC has long been dormant…and by KC..I mean their region…because these aren’t city teams.
Whats wrong with fans being happy for their team and voicing their opinions? No one in STL claims they the best fans in baseball.. that was coined by the media and even Bud Selig. The Cardinals are a great organization and the fans are lucky that the front office works hard to keep it that way. Never got why people get so upset that the Cardinals are so successful? Cardinals fans have every right to be “long loved” for their team.. they win and the fans are everywhere. Period. Its like trolling the Pat’s fans, or the Lakers fans, or even the Montreal Canadians. I get it though.. most are going to hate the successful.
I’m really trying to parse out what part of the fan base people draw issue with, and why. Because I know how great the vast majority of fans are. It’s probably a little like politics…the media picks up on the extreme of both sides and that becomes the face. I live in and grew up in the general STL larger market…where Cardinals fans are apparent walking the street. I have about 8 friends who are fans…those 8 are the spectrum of humanity…with only 1 being the yupster shallow type… He literally clings to the Red cause it gives him cred and I kid you not…will only go to Busch when the Dave Matthews Band is in town….bad..just bad
He’s posted here for a long time and I don’t think he’s even a Cardinals fan. I guess we see who has the agenda here.
My conversations with Vandal have pretty serious Royals leanings
I do think Vandal is right, though…players do like the Cards organization generally. Money is money… But players also generally wish they could spend some time in Chicago or Boston as well…put on the pinstripes or Dodger blues. What player wouldn’t love that?
Yes, there’s a reason players like STL. A player doesn’t hustle to beat out a double play, they get bood. An opposing player makes a great play, the fans applaud. Teamwork, putting ball in play, and not showcasing emotions are all boring qualities, so patrons of the national discussion really have no idea what cardinal fans are. Every winning run ends eventually, so let us be “smug” until we can’t be anymore.
Go Cards!
Well stated…and I’ll say Cards fans have the same issue maybe to a lesser extent than Cubs fans have. It’s like the Cardinals draw the hipsters. The non fan type who cringes at being in the Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox mass of quasi-fans. They take the Redbirds precisely because they don’t want to be thought of as wannabes. The Cardinals are essentially baseballs microbrew. That does not explain 90% of Cardinals fans..because I can’t myself narrow down the basic Cardinal fan..the region is THAT diverse….but I believe it does explain that niche yupster element
Right. There are a lot of fans that are just fans because everyone else is and they’re really not knowledgeable, those buy into your “best fans in baseball”. But you have that with any successful franchise.
As opposed there are a lot of Cubs fans that aren’t very knowledgeable because they just want to be there for the party when they win a World Series. There’s definitely a lot more Cubs apparel in Central Illinois than this time last year. But if you ask them they are loyal because they’re Cubs fans.
I was in Chicago last year for a Cubs-Cards game..the town was dominated by Cardinals fans…the game was almost like a Cardinals home game
Same scenario, interestingly, plays out in the bay area where the A’s have drawn this contingency of urban hipster fans that wouldn’t be caught dead at a yuppie Giants game. They roll out their gold jerseys and head to the park in full on irony
There’s a clear precedent for it. Matt Holliday. You’re the arrogant one here.
Matt Holiday is from the region and would have the same attraction I would to STL. I know Matt personally, and even though his Dad was a transplant coaching Oklahoma State…Matt is an Oklahoma guy through and through….and Oklahoma is solid Cardinal country with some Rangers there as well. That’s staying home for a guy who grew up in the plains west. Same as Alex Gordon in kc
My point had to do with the organization, not the fans.
From McGuire, Edmonds, Dick Allen, George Hendrick, Clark, Beltran etc, a number of veteran players were traded over the the Cardinals and loved it. When Edmonds was traded, MaGuire – a frend from Orange Country – called him and said he’d love it there – McGuire had never been in a situation like that.
For the record, I like and admire the Cardinals, but I am not from St. Louis. Only drove through it once.
Where did he say that?
Heyward is going to sign for maximum dollars. Boras is his agent. Whoever pays him the most, is where he will go.
Boras is not his agent.
My mistake, didn’t realize he switched.
I believe Tim is undervaluing what Heyward will receive in this market if he chooses to maximize his dollars.
I wrote this in the 2016 top FA post a few days ago and I will write it here again:
“Heyward is EASILY going to get 200+ aggregate and 20+ AAV. Check out Dave Cameron’s piece from last year on frangraphs.
Look at the comps there, then take into account heywards age and general contract inflation in the baseball financial environment he’s going to market in – yep, 10/200 is the baseline scenario. “
While that may be plausible, there aren’t many teams that can make that sort of bid. It’s not a matter of how much he could be worth, just how much the runner-up is willing to bid. How many teams are desperate for an OF who plays elite defense (but not center field), admittedly hits lefties poorly, and have $200MM available to spend on him? I’m fully in agreement that Heyward is an exceptional player and his age at free agency is a rare find, I just don’t know that there will be more than 1 or 2 teams in the chase.
The issue there is one of supply and demand affecting potential salary. If Heyward were the only available corner outfielder in that tier, $200 million would be almost a given. However, Céspedes, Upton, Gordon, and Zobrist are all hitting free agency, too.
While his Defensive WAR (which should still be taken with a grain of salt due to the imperfect defensive metrics involved) may suggest he deserves $200M, it doesn’t mean his agent and most MLB GMs are going to value him that way. A lot of GMs are still offense-first traditionalists when handing out contract dollars.
Even by the eye test, Heyward is a terrific outfielder. His metrics are sound. The problem is defense ages poorly, and most of his present value is tied up in defense…in a corner outfield spot.
“While the Cardinals haven’t hesitated to let notable names such as Albert Pujols … to leave in free agency over the years…”
They certainly did hesitate—more than any other free agency in franchise history.
I’d give him 8/180 tomorrow if he’d accept it, and 10/200 too. No hesitation. The Cards just got a massive new media contract, I don’t see how a 36 year old Heyward is any less productive than he is today and really it seems to reason that he’d only get better. If he could put his post-May consistency into play all year round, he’d be worth A-Rod money.
The Cardinals are fine for pitchers for the near future and probably beyond if you can believe the minor league reports. They’re great for salary after 2018 so it’s not like having Heyward as their biggest contract on the books would be a bad thing either (although if one of their young pitchers ends up with a Cy Young or two before they’re near free agency, it’s not unreasonable to think Martinez or Wacha gets a huge payday too).
I’m sure he’ll be a little less productive at age 36 (few players aren’t). However, it’s such a long time from now, and if his contract isn’t backloaded, $20MM in 2025 or 2026 will probably look vastly different than what it does today. There’s a chance that baseball salaries start to level off and teams stop handing out mega-deals, but as of right now, the trend is still way up. I’d sign him to a 10/$200MM if I were the Cardinals.
If he stays the player he is, he’ll probably give you somewhere between 4-6 WAR for the next ~5 years at a minimum. There’s also the chance, given his age, that he gets a little better as well. I think it’d be one of the ‘safest’ mega-deals yet.
Teams are getting burned on these mega contracts at a regular pace with few positive results. So much so that trading bad contracts is becoming as commonplace as waiver claims. At some point teams will catch on that teams rarely win with a 200 million contract on the books. AROD 2009 NY was the only one I could identify. .Since 2009 the only WS Participant with a 200 mil contract was the Tigers and there were only about a half dozen 100 m contracts since 2009 on WS participants. Having said that a few of today’s 200 mil contracts at least stand a chance.
Not sure I’d give a guy that really has yet to live up to the hype a $180MM+ deal. There is no doubt he is an elite defender but his bat has yet to reach the level of his glove. His OPS+ this year of 111 is obviously above average but you would have hoped (with this many at bats in the bigs already) that he would have improved much more. His OPS+ of 117 and 114 happened years ago. I suppose there is still upside with a 26 year old but I think my view is that at this point i’m not so sure his bat gets a whole lot better.
He’s been worth 5-6 WAR per 162 games so far in his career and probably has 4-5 seasons before he even starts declining. Also, 114 happened the year before last. It’s not like it was 5 years ago. Further, the difference between an OPS+ of 111 and 114 is very negligible especially for a guy like Heyward who traditionally hits better in the second half.
That is fair, just not sure I would shell out that kind of money for that kind of player. Someone will I am sure of it, I was just saying I probably wouldn’t. There’s no doubt that hes most likely not going to decline during the life of the deal but that seems like an awful lot of money for a guy that has some pretty meaningful platoon splits as a hitter (wRC+130 vs a righty and only +86 vs a lefty).
Heyward usually has a good June-Aug. He has poor september numbers.
(2012-2014) Aug – .310/.367/.521 Sept – .248/.316/.383
How many of those are from the defensive side of the game? Cause I highly doubt Heyward is a 5-6 WAR from his offense.
Looks like my post did show up above.
Check his declining walk rates, though. That’s definitely concerning.
I agree. He’s never really lived up to the hype. His rookie season he’d hit the ball and stretch a single into a double. He’d go 1-3rd on almost every hit possible. He’d push the outfielders to make a play by hustling.
He’s gotten away from that, simply trying to pull & hit a HR. He was painful to watch offensively his last year in Atlanta.
He was rather predictable: Flyout to RF, ground ball to 2b, K or seeing-eye single to left side.
Watching his aggressiveness in video’s from rookie season, he’s completely 180degree different player.
He also walked nearly twice as much as a rookie as in 2015.
sure is a lot of nutty spending. The Angels bit the bullet to get rid of Hamilton, who is hardly tearing the cover off the ball in Texas. Pujols has hardly produced what he did in STL. The Yanks regret those ARod, Beltran and CC deals. The Padres just put Shields on waivers. The Phillies are loaded up with incredible deals for aging/washed up players. But….it’s their money.
Padres put Shields on revocable waivers.. BIG difference between revocable and outright.. The Phillies only have a couple big contracts left and Utley will be done this year and I am sure Howard will be gone this offseason as well.. Lee’s contract was probably insured.. I am pretty sure Texas is only paying Hamilton somewhere around $5-$6 million a year.. Pujols was a mistake. He is still valuable though and is still a leader..
That’s a great point. Looking at Heyward’s numbers, the key takeaway for me is his walk rate, which has trended downwards. It was nearly 15% in his rookie season but has dropped notably since. It’s under 8% right now. If he were still close to that 15% number, there wouldn’t even be a question of whether or not he’d get $200 million.
I don’t see the Yankees, Red Sox, or Dodgers making a run at him. If the Cardinals are out I don’t know who else would sign a contract that large. Seattle has Cano, Washington has Scherzer, Angels have Pujols. Many teams will stretch for one massive contract but only a handful can do more than that.
Phillies will have an enormous amount of money and the need to pay for Heyward’s services. No, they may not be contenders next year, but a Heyward signing helps them for the future. They will definitely be major players in FA.
He’s not old enough for the Phillies to look at.
After this year, the Phillies will have two players over the age of 30 on their 25 man roster: Howard and Ruiz, who are both on expiring contracts. They have the 9th youngest roster in MLB right now.
That overused, recycled, and unsupported statement you made is actually old.
It was old when it was going around about the Yankees and it has gotten overused with the Phillies now.. The Phillies are actually a very young team with the exception of Howard, Ruiz, and Harang.. Ruiz will probably be the only one putting on a Phillies uniform next year..
The Yankees definitely won’t not with Ellsbury and Gardner locked up.. Plus, they have Judge coming up to replace Beltran. The Red Sox are loaded in the outfield. Same with the Dodgers. The Angels maybe but I am sure they have soured on megadeals.. Seattle is probably about maxed on their big contracts as well.. Toronto will be out.. The Cubs are have an outside chance but they will probably chase pitchers and someone like Zobrist.. Texas is set in the outfield.. Atlanta, Washington, Miami, Tampa, Royals, Reds, Padres, A’s, Pirates, Brewers, and a few others I haven’t mentioned won’t even be in on him.. I just don’t see who the bidders are going to be to get him to $200m.. The teams that will be in the market for outfielders (Mets, Detroit, Baltimore) will probably be chasing Upton and Cespedes first with neither the Mets or Baltimore signing anyone for $200m .. The Cardinals are his best bet to get a big contract and he should probably take whatever they offer in their exclusive negotiating period..
The Cards have been pretty darn smart when it comes to their spending. Letting Pujols go was a great decision. Albert hasn’t come close to putting up the numbers he did in STL the last four years. They got two good years out of Beltran and let him go and the Yankees no doubt are sorry for signing CB to that big three year deal. Keeping Molina is smart because he’s unique and perhaps a HOFer one day. Peralta and Holiday were good pickups because they filled needs although JP has been cold in the second half. And Lackey is the bargain of the century! Bottom line is they by far have the best record in baseball. Heyward has done well since a bad start but I don’t think he’s worth the type of numbers some of you are throwing out there. But….who knows? There always seems to be those clubs who seem to amaze with their wild spending.
I agree. I like Heyward, but I don’t think he’s an 8/180 or a 10/200 player, and I would hope that the Cardinals wouldn’t throw that kind of money at him.
I doubt he breaks $150m.. He can sign a 4 year deal for $100m+ and take another shot at free agency while still in his prime.. That would be the smart move.. Who knows in 7-8 years $20m a year could be chump change.. Then again he might blow his knees out and turn into Carlos Beltran in a year or 2.. But I agree I just don’t see him getting one of the biggest contracts in baseball with so much of his value tied up in his stellar defense.. Andrellton Simmons is probably the best defensive player in all of baseball and I wouldn’t give him $200m and he is a shortstop.. Being the best right fielder in baseball is like being the smartest kid in remedial classes..
I’ve been a life long Cardinal fan, however, if the dollar amount gets too high, the Cardinals will let him walk. The secret to the Cardinals success has been financial flexibility for a long time. Are they a small market team–certainly. However, they aren’t exactly cash strapped either. I think an outfield of Holliday, Grichuk, Piscotty, Jay, and Bourjos is far more likely in 2016. Perhaps another scenario would be to add someone else at a lower price, maybe Cepedes I think Cepedes would be a more likely target, being that no draft pick compensation is attached to him (like Jhonny Peralta before 2013).
Heyward is worth 90 million in my opinion. If a team gives him 180-200 Million I hope its the Cubs because that is robbery and he will not be a 200 million player. Hope im wrong because I do like the guy and the way he plays but his “prime” should be coming soon and he hasn’t shown signs of being the player everyone once thought he would be. Plus he is afraid of the ball when hitting, I know he got him in the face but that didnt stop Stanton.
I really doubt the Cardinals are willing to spend the kind of money it would take to resign Heyward now that Grichuk has proven himself as an everyday player and the early returns on Piscotty are good.
I’ve said all along that it will mainly depend on how well Heyward, Grichuk, and Piscotty do this year. While Heyward has hit and fielded as well as usual (which at this point in his career is probably about as good as he’ll ever be despite his still relatively young age), the Cardinals would be rather comfortable with a 2016 outfield of Holliday in LF and Grichuk splitting time between CF and RF by platooning with both Jay and Piscotty at a much cheaper price.
Jason Heyward has never had 30 homeruns, 100 RBI, or hit .300 in any one season. Has one ALL-Star game and two Gold Gloves to his name. He’s currently making $7.8 million this season and maybe due for a raise; but to me he’s doing what a $7.8 million player should be doing. Forget his potential, that ship has sailed. I don’t see in anyway him getting a $180 million contract, and definitely won’t be from the Cardinals.
he’s gonna look great in a cub uniform next year!!
If the Cubs want to blow a wad of money on him, GREAT. Their track record of FA’s isn’t exactly sterling: Bradley, Fukadome, Miles, Hawkins & Soriano….P-U!
let heyward go, cardinals don’t need him