The Phillies continued to dismantle their aging core, agreeing last night to send All-Star second baseman Chase Utley to the Dodgers in return for some salary relief and a pair of young players. “And then there were two,” said first baseman Ryan Howard, who is joined by backstop Carlos Ruiz as the only remaining pieces of the club’s 2008 World Series-winning outfit (via MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki).
Here are some notes and reactions to the deal:
- Dealing a franchise icon in Utley was hard, but was “the right thing for us to do for both Chase and the franchise,” Ruben Amaro Jr. tells MLB Network Radio on Sirius XM (audio link). Utley “had given us some clubs that he would be interested in and would consider going to,” said Amaro, but it was nevertheless difficult to finalize a deal given the “complications” of the veteran’s full no-trade protection. “We got to the point where I think Chase, the Dodgers, and the Phillies kind of worked together to make this happen,” said the Philadelphia GM. “Hopefully this is a good thing for all parties.”
- Utley seemed to echo Amaro’s thoughts in his comments last night to the press, as Ryan Lawrence of the Philadelphia Daily News reports. “Three weeks ago or so, I had a conversation with Ruben,” said Utley. “I think everyone knows my love and affection for the city . We put our heads together and decided it might be best for us to part ways. I gave them a list of a handful of teams that I would consider playing for, and then it was Ruben’s job to find the best deal he could for the organization. And ultimately it came down to the Dodgers, a team I grew up watching.” He also expressed a clear vision for what he’s hoping to accomplish in his new home: “My goal there is to win. That’s the bottom line.”
- In addition to saving about $2MM, the Phillies come away from the deal with some fairly interesting young players, MLB.com’s Jim Callis writes. 24-year-old Darnell Sweeney is a solid all-around player with good defensive flexibility, writes Callis. Meanwhile, righty John Richy has a power sinker and three playable offspeed pitches, making him a possible back-end starter.
- That return represents a win for the Phillies front office, opines Corey Seidman of CSNPhilly.com. Sweeney will head straight to the big league roster, of course, meaning that Philadelphia will get an early look at just what it has. The club was able to benefit from the fact that the Dodgers are loaded with similar players already and would have found it hard to protect him from the Rule 5 draft this winter. Given the limitations presented — salary, no-trade protection, and Utley’s struggles this year — Seidman says that it wouldn’t have been reasonable to expect more.
- From the Dodgers’ perspective, says GM Farhan Zaidi, the club has high expectations for Utley’s bat, as J.P. Hoornstra of the Los Angeles News Group reports. “When he’s healthy, he’s still one of the best hitters in the game,” said Zaidi. Utley is expected to see regular action at second until Howie Kendrick returns from the DL, and could shift around the infield thereafter.
- Many have wondered why Los Angeles went after a hitter when the team’s bullpen has struggled so much of late, but Zaidi indicated that adding Utley did not preclude other moves, as Mark Saxon of ESPNLosAngeles.com reports on Twitter. Indeed, the club could still add a relief arm, according to the GM. “I don’t feel like [the Utley trade] depletes our trade capital … in any real way,” he added.
I guess coaches don’t count as a remaining piece of the 2008 team?
I think the Phillies did really well in the Utley deal. They’ve turned Bastardo, Byrd, Rollins, Hamels, Papelbon, Diekman, Revere, the 2015 draft. and now Utley, into 14 of their top 30 prospects
The rebuild is in full effect, they’ve brought up 3 good looking young players in the past 3 days (Altherr, Eickoff and Sweeney) and only have 3 regular players over 30 years old (Williams, Harang and Howard).
Which coaches are still here from 2008?
I was going to make a sarcastic retort (“deepest apologies to Larry Bowa,” or some such), but upon looking, it does not even appear that there is any overlap between the ’08 and ’15 coaching staffs.
Oh my. I’m sorry.
Didn’t realize they signed Mackanin to be the bench coach in 2009. Thats what I was getting at.
Ha, no worries.
Ruiz, can be put in that category, Unless Ruff is nominated as the starting Catcher in the near future, Surprised that Team that needs a solid Backup doesn’t at least inquire with Phillies on Carlos with them paying Most of the Salary , Same for the Big piece ! One Hit, One Play can help the Contenders win that one extra game!
Means the Playoffs for the Contenders but nothing for the Phillies !
I’m guessing there’s about a dozen or so teams who said bad words when Sweeney was announced in the deal, there’s no way he would have snuck through the rule V.
The “salary relief” means very little in this transaction. The Phillies “saving” 2 Million really should say the Dodgers needed “salary relief” of 4 million to make the deal. The Dodgers are getting Utley for the rest of the year for only 2 million of the 6 million that he was owed. The Phillies “relieved” the Dodgers of having to pay the whole 6.
The Phillies relieved the Dodgers of an obligation that they did not have until the deal was made?
When deals are made, teams value players, and then account for the obligations already in place as well as the practical considerations impacting value in structuring the deal. They don’t start from the premise that the player is somehow worth what they happen to be owed. It doesn’t make a ton of sense to say, “you got a $6MM player for $2MM — you just saved $4MM!” (Consumers would do well to disabuse themselves of that logic.)
The Dodgers got 6 weeks (+postseason) of Utley, which they valued at $2MM + the prospects they gave up. The Phillies gave up those 6 weeks in return for shedding $2MM of preexisting obligations — that is, money they were going to pay regardless of what happened with Utley — and getting the two young players back. Obviously, both teams were able to realize some efficiencies here that also impact the valuation — the Phils got a prospect who needed to go on the 40-man and so who may have more value to them than to LAD, the Dodgers reasonably expect to employ Utley during the playoffs while the Phils wouldn’t, etc.
Regardless, I can’t understand how there would be a problem with me saying the Phillies obtained “some salary relief” in this deal.
You make some good points. The problem might be with the general overuse of the term “salary relief.” You said it yourself: teams are seeking benefits from trades and first and foremost those benefits are to their rosters, or at least should be.
Yeah, I guess if you read that term to imply that it was a driving factor — as in, say, the D’Backs acknowledging that they did the Toussaint deal to clear payroll. I didn’t really mean it that way.
Cash is still cash, and it obviously has value to any business. While we all know the Phillies are willing to give up $ for young players, that also holds true of other clubs (like the Dodgers), and it’s not as if they simply don’t care that LA is taking on that much of the contract.
Sure, cash is cash and baseball is a business, nobody could sensibly deny that. But the business of baseball is still baseball; fielding a team the fans want to watch is their product. With the talk of finances being so popular now the point of moving this money around often gets lost in the shuffle. Put it this way, I would never assume that “cleared” payroll is cleared to go anywhere but into the team owner’s pockets. Considering this aspect of the baseball business makes the clearing of payroll a lot less interesting to a fan. To this one anyway.
Here’s my less than splitting hairs question – if the Dodgers end up picking up utley’s 2016 option or more likely trading him to a team that does, will they have paid the $2 million to the Phillies in 2015 or is what they are really doing picking up responsibility for the decision on and cost of the buyout?
Seems both sides benefit on the cash side, because anything LA pays is subject to the Luxury Tax. And, I suppose you can also say LA bought an option on Utley for next year. Since he won’t vest, they can pay him at the lower end, and if he makes his incentives, they get an additional “esthetic” return. It’s not a bad deal for LA, or for the Philles
Practically speaking Utley can’t make his option. It vests at 500 PAs, which means he’d need more than five per game for the rest of the season. At that point he becomes a free agent.
It becomes a club option.
Isn’t that saying the same thing in a different way? A club exercising his 2016 option would presumably get stuck with his options for the next two seasons. Know anyone who’d be interested?
No I don’t think that’s how it works – the $15 million series of vesting options sunsets this year…it doesn’t revive if he gets the 500 plate appearances in the future
The way it looks to me, the option vests for each year following the one where he records 500 PAs. If he is below 500 for this season but the team that owns his contract picks up the option anyway, his contract would still include the 500 PA guarantee for for 2017 and 2018. Have you seen it explained authoritatively any other way?
I wonder what the Phillies could have gotten prospect wise if they had relieved the Dodgers of the whole 6 million owed?
My guess…the same package of Sweeney and Richy.
Utley for free or $2 mil really doesn’t have much difference in value for a team like the Dodgers.
I’m actually somewhat surprised PHI’s still paying $4m.
Probably to get a better prospect. Sweeney isn’t a bad get for the Phils.
I believe the money owed to LA will be contingent on Utleys performance
I think that the above-cited Seidman piece does a good job of getting at some of the heart of this deal. Sweeney was worth much more to the Dodgers as a trade asset. They probably weren’t really willing to give up a player that had significant future value to the org.
If you look at the deal from that perspective, knowing how the Dodgers value prospects, then perhaps they weren’t necessarily willing to “sell” a better prospect if the Phils had, say, kept the full obligation.
Glad this wasn’t the Cubs. I’m sure Utley will be on the DL again before the Post Season begins.
Still a better WAR than Castro and Soler.
I hadn’t heard Solers name since people were acting smug after stashing him in fantasy leagues in March…break out
Zing!
I’m looking forward to this offseason. I read somewhere that Phils only have about $75 in guaranteed salary for next year. I’m not expecting them to go nuts, but I think this offseason will be a nice step towards building for the future. I could see them adding another $40 million to get their payroll in the $115M range for next year. I wouldn’t mind seeing them go after Heyward and a starting pitcher like Brett Anderson or Doug Fister. And I also think this is the year they should splurge in the international market with almost all of the large market teams on their “penalty”. Maybe I’m overly optimistic, but things may actually start looking brighter very soon.
I doubt they go get a long term piece unless its a starting pitcher.
They have ~7 guys you would want to try everyday in the OF before you start looking else where.
You also have 2 really good looking catchers, Franco, Crawford and 3 guys who you’d like to give a look everyday at 2B.
If they can add a good 3B/1B to go with Franco, that’d be nice, but nothing too expensive.
I’d like them to pick up someone like Fister who could sign a 1 year value-builder deal, same with guys like Latos and Samardzija.
I wouldn’t bother with Fister, Latos or Samardzija – they all have significant flaws and have all
most likely peaked.
Most importantly, none of them help a team still short of the talent to reach .500 enough to make them a postseason contender.
I wouldn’t quibble with going after Greinke, Price, Jordan Zimmermann, etc – but I don’t think Philadelphia has quite earned the attention of the top pitchers
I’d agree that Philadelphia can certainly do a rebuild faster than a small market team such as Milwaukee. Hopefully they try to do it right and build a core and then augment.