4:00pm: The White Sox are interested not only in Cespedes but also in the Padres’ Justin Upton, reports Jon Heyman of CBS Sports (via Twitter).
2:41pm: The White Sox are flipping the script and aggressively pursuing a bat, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports on Twitter. Among the many players they’ve inquired about, per the report, is Yoenis Cespedes of the Tigers.
It remains unclear at present precisely where the club would like to add. Cespedes, of course, is a rental outfielder, but Chicago has received fairly marginal production at almost every spot on the diamond. First base (Jose Abreu) and center field (Adam Eaton) seem to be the only two positions where an upgrade would not make any realĀ sense, though obviously the team is unlikely to replace veterans like Alexei Ramirez (at short) and Melky Cabrera (in the outfield). That Cespedes holds interest seems to suggest that Chicago is willing to take time away from Avisail Garcia and/or Adam LaRoche (the team’s right fielder and primary DH, respectively).
More importantly, perhaps, is the question of what kind of price the club might be willing to pay to get something done and whether the team is considering a move for controllable assets. Chicago is not exactly in an enviable position, though the team has played better of late. The division-rival Tigers are selling despite the fact that they are only one game behind Chicago in the standings. The White Sox are 11.5 games back of the leading Royals, and remain two-and-a-half out of Wild Card position.
With the team pursuing a bat, it would seem highly unlikely that righty Jeff Samardzija will beĀ moved. That had already seemed to be the case, so perhaps it isn’t surprising to learn that the club prefers to enhance its chances with an addition, rather than simply standing pat.
snazzypants
This may sound weird, but how about Cespedes for Shark, straight up?
Jasper
And the Tigers need Shark… why exactly?
funkytime
They don’t. But a three team trade could be possible.
mikeyst13
The Tigers are trying to retool, why trade for a pitcher on an expiring contract? And if the Sox are looking for a bat to make a run at the Wild Card then why ship Shark?
The Oregonian
While that sounds fair, it wouldn’t help either team to compete.
fuzzylogic101
They are already competing.
petrie000
uhhh… why would the Tigers acquire 1 pitcher about to leave as a FA when they just traded away a much better pitcher because he was about to leave as an FA?
one would think they’d want to trade Cespedes for something that will actually be of us to them….
iowarockeyes
It does seem more likely they could retain Shark then price…I don’t see it happening but it’s not the craziest thing we have heard.
stl_cards16 2
They can sign Shark in the off-season if they want. They need pieces for the future.
citizen
whats the sox point of finding a bat? they are just going to end the winning streak and fall from contention. they cant even beat the royals. the sox should be trading players.
Vandals Took The Handles
The can win a wild card spot?
lgjack
The White Sox should package Francelis Montas, Micah Johnson, Chris Beck, and Trace Thompson for Colorado third baseman Nolan Arenado.
Los Calcetines Rojos
I guess sub avisail out if its cespedes! I doubt they do anything like that but upton, gomez, and cespedes would all look pretty nice.
Weird 2 weeks ago it’d be crazy to think they would buy and now they look like legit threat. Hopefully they keep this play up or the offense stays producing for an extended period of time. I don’t know many teams that would want to face sale in a one game playoff
kidaplus
I think they’d DH Melky as he’s a switch hitter. There would be no more need to keep LaRouche in there just cause he’s a lefty anymore.
scissormetimbers
since there’s an entire spectrum of negative numbers, it makes less than zero sense
seamaholic 2
They want a rental? How does that make sense? I know they’ve been better lately, but four teams to still climb over to get to a one game playoff. Division is out of reach.
justinept
There’s really only two teams to climb over if you look at the loss column. Unfortuantely, those
justinept
Accidentally hit Post Comment… Whoops
I agree mostly. Sox fans like to look at the loss column as an indicator, and that’s normally not wrong. With that perspective, they really just need to jump over the Twins and Orioles for their 2nd WC spot. So why not go for it? It’s not tough to make up 2 games in the loss column when you have 60 games left to play.
Unfortunately though, the Blue Jays got a teeny bit better these past few days and will likely run away w/ one of the wild cards while Houston or Anaheim will likely settle for the other one.
James J.
Ugh. Why
thraser11
If the cost isn’t that prohibitive and I don’t think it would be, don’t think it’s the worst move. Sale in 1-game playoff is a pretty good option to have. Not to mention Avisail Garcia has been terrible.
bombsaway
Because their pitching is number 1 in f/war in the AL
Cam
It’s a shame their offense has been bad that they are a stretch just to get to a one-game playoff.
chisox59
I doubt the Sox go after a rental unless its cheap. Controllable bats make much more sense. Carlos Gomez, Carlos Gonzalez, Josh Reddick, Todd Frazier (pipe dream, I know) all make much more sense than rentals. But we shall see…
fuzzylogic101
The White Sox have played well for over a month and have two teams to climb over in the loss column. Stop with the “how on earth can they buy?” They have the best pitching in the AL with the top starter. And it doesn’t have to be a rental.
justinept
They don’t have much to surrender for anything more than a rental… Additionally, neither of the two teams they need to ‘jump’ are the Blue Jays – and they severely improved since Monday to the point that they might run away w/ the thing. I’m going to say that the Sox should just throw in the towel because of what other teams are doing, but I don’t blame people for saying the Sox don’t have a very good shot at this thing.
fuzzylogic101
So the Blue Jays in the exact same spot run away with the wild card by adding a pitcher? While the White Sox can’t add a legitimate bat to help them? Does not compute. And they do have assets for more than a rental. It would have to be the right deal.
kidaplus
Cespedes doesn’t come with a comp pick when he walks as FA. Unless multiple teams bid him up, he’s a total loss rental after the year and as such, shouldn’t cost as much as he would if he came with top 45 pick.
Dock_Elvis
Hes a loss anyway as being traded would remove his comp status. His contract structure also calls for his release prior to free agency, making the team that acquires him now unable to sign him until next May 1.
The only reason to trade for him now is for his 2015 bat. That is unless the Sox plan to flip him immediately
fuzzylogic101
Yep should be cheap.
tagteamuniforms
The Royals won the one game playoff last year and with the starting pitching the Sox have its not crazy to think, that if they get in, they can win that game. I like the idea of picking up a rental. He will be much cheaper
jakajaka
Martin Prado would be a perfect fit. Can play 2nd or 3rd for them.
Cam
But can he play either well?
jsox17
Let’s go Kenny and Rick.. Get something done for a nice bat to put in the middle of the order..
dirtbags32
I say go for it. Why not? They’ve got the best starting pitching of the teams vying for that second wild card spot. If they can get any semblence of their recent hitting barrage down the stretch they have a decent shot.
BucSox
They just landed their bat. Justin Sellers has been traded to the White Sox.
rg1307
Why is everybody being so darn negative? “They’re on a hot streak wait till it ends” Obviously they’re not going to be able to hold this pace…. but they don’t need to as long as everyone returns to what they should be hitting at, and they stay consistent (I use that term loosely) with this pitching staff and bullpen I don’t see why the can’t compete in a weak AL. Blue Jays are really the only team that scares me in this race, and I will still take the Sox pitching staff and bullpen over the Jays.
BucSox
If they truly are going for a bat you would have to think it is a non-rental like Gomez or Gonzalez right.
chisox59
Yes. both legitimate possibilities, I would think.
Dock_Elvis
That’s my thought…acquiring both an possibly flipping Fulmer in a deal makes sense….not that he alone gets Gomez or Gonzalez. But I always keep in mind that the Sox love supposed suppressed damaged goods.
chisox59
Sox aren’t trading Fulmer, I guarantee it.
Dock_Elvis
I would doubt they do as well…I’m just not sure what they deal for a major controllable bat. Cespedes and Upton make sense because cost should be less.
Pick up the phone to Colorado and Fulmer will come out of the other end. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear Colorado is also trying to deal for Gausman
cookiemonster
cant trade drafted players til after the season, micah johnson, tim anderson, erik johnson and frankie montas are their only real chips in the minors.
fuzzylogic101
You’re not allowed to trade Fulmer
jsox17
They could if they wanted to.. It would just be termed as traded for a player to be named later. Same thing happened to Trea Turner last year
Dock_Elvis
Difference being that the trade can now officially be made after the season is complete and not a year removed from the draft. I’m not suggesting they deal Fulmer…just the facts.
justinept
A player to be named later has to be named no more han 6 months after the deal has been struck. That means, you can’t include a recently drafted player as a PTBNL until 6 months after he was drafted… So no. You can’t actually trade him until the first week of December.
Dock_Elvis
They are allowed to trade a player to be named later…and that can be Fulmer when the season is completed.
I’m not saying its going to happen… But Fulmer might be a future closer…I’m not sure he has the high end of Sale or Rodon. He’s more in the same ready soon for the majors mold….but I’d think a deal for a major controllable bat would almost need to include him.
cookiemonster
no they changed the rule because of trea turner. no drafted prospect is eligable to be a ptbnl until the offseason now.
SupremeZeus
Would you base your deadline decisions on 3 months of performance data or 7 days of data vs. the Indians an Red Sox? I think we know Kenny Williams answer. Lol. I suspect the White Sox will try to move Erik Johnson and parts for said bat.
They should trade Samardzija for a future piece and slot Erik Johnson in Danks spot and eat his salary next year. The White Sox aren’t winning the wild card.
fuzzylogic101
The White Sox are 18-8 in the last month, beating St. Louis, Cubs, Baltimore and Toronto in series. The hitting was bound to regress to career averages, not the 3 months you reference. The wins are banked.
max l
Technically, they tied the season series vs. St. Louis 2-2 (swept them in St. Louis, got swept at home) so I really wouldn’t call that winning a series.
They beat the Orioles when the Orioles were going through their worst stretch of the season, and the Jays before they improved by acquiring Tulo & Price.
It’s a nice 7 game run, but let’s not kid ourselves that their beating really good teams in those 7 games. They swept Cleveland & they probably sweep the Red Sox (with Sale pitching tonight). Still don’t think they get one of the Wildcards.
fuzzylogic101
I agree Toronto is the favorite but it’s not in some runaway. The point was they beat good and bad teams in their recent stretch (last month) and winning eight on the road (if Sale wins) is an improbable feat period. The team is hitting. If you add a bat and pair it with the pitching that’s worth a run and it’s not crazy. Banked wins don’t go away. Besides Toronto has a crapload of games vs the Yanks.
kidaplus
They’re not beating those teams, they’re crushing them. There is a difference. Not too mention, it’s baseball. The worst teams beat the best team 1 out of 3. Crushing teams 7 games in a row on the road is not common place no matter who the opponent.
Discounting all their wins the last month is pretty laughable btw. Orioles were playing bad? The entire Sox team was hitting well under their career aves the first 3 months… now many of them have regressed to the mean and hitting along the lines of career numbers… but the orioles get a pass for playing bad and they don’t? Interesting.
Hate to break it to you, but Melky Cabrera and Adam Eaton aren’t .240 hitters. Alexei Ramirez isn’t gonna hit .212 for a season like he did the first three months. All three of those guys were in the top 20 AL averages last year… they were hitting .25-60 points below career #’s for the first three… to pencil that in as the norm and discount the results when they perform the career levels is a very big stretch.
You swap out a bat like Cespedes for LaRouche’s dead weight with a line up that is no longer completely underperforming to go along with that top tier pitching and you have a team that can def compete for that WC spot.
sportingdissent
That pitching staff though…before Toronto got Price, the White Sox had four starters better than anyone in their rotation. It’s easy to dismiss the White Sox because of the path they took to get to this point, but they’re in the same place as the Jays but with a much much much better pitching staff. The Price acquisition keeps them in the equation. Before that, I wouldn’t have been on the Jays.
kidaplus
Exactly. They were at the same win %. Toronto got their by hitting. Sox by pitching. — But the hitting is sexier.
Tulo is a nice upgrade but he’s not filling a black hole. His .300 & 12 at Coors is replacing a guy who was .285 & 4. He’s better defensively, but he’s not stepping in for a guy hitting .230. Tor wasnt hurting at short. I mean, Tulo hit .246 in July. So while nice, it’s not some killer move that solved a big problem. It’s a luxury for certain, but also an answer to a question no one asked.
Price is no doubt an huge upgrade, but a solid bat that produces in the middle of the order could be just as big of one for the Sox as it doesn’t just add production, it takes LaRouche… who is a true black hole… out of the line up… every day… not every fifth.
Dock_Elvis
I’m confused by your clarification on the PTBNL…is it that they can’t name him for 6 mos or they HAVE 6mos…I’m assuming it’s they must wait. OK…either way they can trade Fulmer in December well prior to him needing to Benin uniform for another organization… Thus avoiding the Trea Turner situation. Nov 1 or Dec 1 doesn’t matter much
milwaukeemike
After Bob Nightengale’s horrible reporting on the Brewers/Mets trade, how can you believe anything he tweets?
Bob Nightengale ā@BNightengale 17h hours ago
“The #Brewers rejected the #Mets trade because of concerns over Wheeler”s physical and still plan to trade Gomez by Friday.”
Seanpt52
They can have Ben Revere and / or Ryan Howard on the CHEAP
zerobs
Nothing about taking on Ryan Howard is cheap.
sydfinch
Any one know how many days after the end of the season is the Wild Card played? Who’s to say Sale lines up for that game??
fuzzylogic101
They three pitchers in top 11 of Fwar in the AL with Rodon as the 4th. I don’t believe people realize how good the White Sox starting pitching is.
chisox59
This. Best WAR among staff in the AL, best WAR among SP in MLB. That’s why a 7 game win streak put them right back in the middle of it despite a historically bad offense the first 90 games of the season
max l
One of them is the Tuesday, the other is the Wednesday. Last year the AL Wildcard game was on Tuesday, with the NL wildcard game on Wednesday, so I think it’s reversed this year (NL playing Tuesday, AL on Wednesday) but I’m not entirely sure. If the AL plays Wednesday it’ll buy Sale & the Sox an extra day.
ramonskee
Good question but you throw your best pitcher during that Wild Card game and have him comeback for Game 3 (and possibly 5 if there’s at least 3 days rest) of the ALDS.
You do whatever you have to do to survive – the next series is not guaranteed until you win the current series.
ramonskee
Over the last month, Melky is hitting .366 with a .391 OBP to go along with 18 XBH (4 HR), and 22 RBIs. His season total numbers are .284/.322 with 30 XBH (6 HR) and 48 RBI. I’m sure a staff writer at MLBTR is aware of the term “regression to the mean” which would lead us to think that Melky will continue this tear for a few more weeks and end the season around .280/.330 with 10-15 HRs and around 70 RBI. How is he a hole that needs to be plugged?
I won’t even get into Carlos Sanchez hitting .333/.355 over the last month with 10 XBH – maybe he’s somewhere in between that and what he was hitting earlier in the early, so around a .260 hitter? And with that defense? Wow.
zerobs
Seems the target to replace is LaRoche, but a cheap rental is all that makes sense there. Lind or Napoli maybe as that wouldn’t cost much, though Williams/Hahn have a tendency to overpay which means Ryan Howard (!) isn’t out of the realm of possibility.
If Avi Garcia is the target to replace, I would much prefer going after someone like Marcell Ozuna who the Marlins have seemed to sour on. But I would think the main reason Avi would be targeted for replacement is for defensive reasons (and I think he’s out of options like Gillaspie).
This mgt team seems to make emotional decisions; iI shudder to think what they’d give up to a division rival for Cespedes. Erik Johnson should be out of the question but probably isn’t.
dazedatnoon
i hope its a long term 3B or catcher
01redsfan
Work out a trade with the reds to bring our home town boy Nate Jones to cincy. Then we can trade Chapman for a big bat.
everlastingdave
They need to do something like the Mets’ trade for Uribe and K. Johnson. There’s so many offensive zeros on the Sox, I’d rather see two average bats than one really good one.
shoelessjoe
As much as I love Avisail he’s ice cold right now and needs more work. LaRoche is a total bust and needs to be replaced.
claymc
5 years ago, the Sox signed Adam Dunn, a low AVG, high power OF bat with dwindling defensive value out of Cincinnati. Could it be deja vu with Jay Bruce? ChiSox are currently last in the AL in HR and SLG…
seamaholic 2
Unfortunately, you don’t “sign” Jay Bruce. You have to trade — a lot — and I don’t think the White Sox have the pieces.
mwk89
chicago has the red sox to thank for this change in status
zerobs
The Sox and Padres often hook up on trades so Upton seems more likely than Cespedes. I still sense that Erick Johnson or Tim Anderson get traded for a two-month rental which makes the idea taste bad to me. But maybe they Sox are seeing if someone will take a flyer on Matt Davidson.
fuzzylogic101
Where are on earth are you getting that? Eric Johnson or Tim Anderson will not be moved for a rental two-month rental. Hahn has done a very good job in his initial trades.
Dock_Elvis
With Hahn it could be a 3 team deal… So it makes it hard to speculate on….but he’s done a decent job at it.
zerobs
I get it from the fact that the Padres would want something return and there are other teams interested in Upton. Seems like SD asked for more than what Cleveland asked for Moss. Johnson could be moved as he has only 1 year of options left – the more I think about it moving Johnson isn’t such a bad idea.
citizen
maybe the sox can get adam dunn from retirement
Dock_Elvis
Doubtful….they might actually be paying him to STAY retired.
JoeyPankake
Are White Sox fans pleased with this turn of events or would you prefer to sell at this juncture in the season?
Dock_Elvis
I don’t think they sell in the traditional sense anyway… I don’t think Shark brings incredible value back. Team seems built for an attempt in the next few years. If they deal for a bigger piece they’ll have to move a.major piece…but they could likely trade for Cespedes or Upton and not miss a beat system wise.
bj9645
If the Sox fancy themselves as contenders, then why do they keep trotting Danks out there every 5th day?
I’d give up Avi for a bat (preferably not a rental) as he’s not a good player, but I’m wary of selling out for a pipedream. I just am wary they have no long-term vision and are now on the ‘buy’ path because they beat up on the dregs of the AL
soxfan123123
I don’t want them to go after a rental. They should go after Carlos Gomez or Carlos Gonzalez (although he’s significantly worse away).
seamaholic 2
Who’s significantly worse than whom? I think you have something backwards if you’re comparing either of those guys to anyone on the White Sox.
JoeyPankake
So under this new commenting system you have to scroll to your comment to see if someone replied if you don’t want it sent to your email or am I missing something?
Steve 39
Yes. They made the system worse, again.
Dock_Elvis
I turned off my email notifications because there is no way to get just replies….it’ll send every comment…good luck getting those 200 emails for every comment….I’m waiting for the comments on the app that Tim has spoken about…the system now is not very user friendly
shoelessjeff
Hahn & Williams have been selling the idea that they had a three year plan since the W.Sox started stumbling along like the worst hitting team in ML history. If they are sticking with that idea, then maybe a guy like Yasiel Puig might fit as a trade target. I can’t see them going after a rental hitter like Upton or Cespedes, not unless they are giving up next to nothing for them. Puig would slot in nicely along with Abreu, possibly Eaton & Melky, and unless he goes as part of a Puig deal, Avisail Garcia. But that still won’t be enough offense, especially with such glaring holes at so many positions. I have hope for Sanchez and or Micah Johnson, but it’s just not a decent hitting team. Leaving the 2015 Sox to compete with Tyler at Catcher and Gillaspie at 3B was a huge bungle by Hahn. Signing LaRoche after what we just escaped with Dunn was like a true wtf moment. On we suffer!
Dock_Elvis
Yeah…there were flaws in the lineup…but they still might end up where most people thought they would be…competive and on the fringes of the playoffs. Things break right they might have had some more wins
justinept
This isn’t letting me reply. So I’m gonna post it all here …
1- people aren’t taking the Sox seriously because they’ve done this before. They’ve gone on streaks, gotten to within a game or two of .500 and then lost 8 of 10.
2- if you think the addition of Tulo for the Jays is minor, then you aren’t paying attention. Reyes was injured for A third of the year, and wasnt particularly good when he played. His .322 obp and .707 ops should tell you need to know. By comparison, Tulo has a .348 obp and .808 ops with home road splits that were almost identical. He also plays GG caliber defense wheras Reyes was a liability. Bottom line – the Jays got signfinicantly better with that move.
3 – anyone thinking Cespedes is gonna come cheap is just being dumb. He won’t bring back a top 70 prospect, but the Tigers won’t just give him away. and if you think the Rosenthal report regarding him having to be released following the season is going to change a thing – it won’t because it was incorrect. Rosenthal ignored the part where Cespedes is eligible for arbitration due to his service time. His contract doesn’t say he has to be released; in fact, the CBA doesn’t allow that type of language for an are eligible player. Instead, It says he has to be non tendered. Those are entirely different things. You can resign a player immediately after non-trendering him.
4- the Jays run differential is insane. They were playing like a team that should’ve been 20 games over .500 before the recent trades. That stuff evens out over a 162 game season.
zerobs
That stuff does NOT even out over a 162-game season. Over 3 seasons it may, but not one.
If you’re going to put one-season value on pythag, it should be more along the lines of “why are we underperforming” instead of thinking it’ll even out. They’re tops in runs scored and they’re underperforming, that means they need help in preventing runs. Price helps in that regard. And so does Tulo which is where his acquisition really helps, his offense on that team this year is just icing on the cake.
chamberskevin
Yes, but by definition non-tendering is the same as releasing, he is now a free agent and can sign with any other team.
Dock_Elvis
Tulo playing on turf and finishing a healthy season has little statistical probability.
Tigers can press for more with Cespedes, but at some point they run into equal or better controllable players such as Gonzalez and Gomez
kidaplus
Tulo has played 122 – 143 – 47 – 126 – 91 in the last 5 years… can hardly pencil him to be in the line up every day. Plus, he’ll be seeing alot of arms he hasn’t faced before.
If you’re +100 and .500 it with that line up its just as likely means youre need way more than one arm than that one arm every fifth day.
Like someone else mentioned there are other corner outfielders who are as good and get you a draft pick or control… if the price for ces gets to high to where it cost similar to those guys, you go for one of those guys.
Overbrook
Justin Upton has an OPS of around .760. What’s 2 months of .760 OPS worth? Frankly, not much. Certainly not a top 100 prospect. Cespedes isn’t worth that either.
zerobs
Compared to what? Two more months of .654 OPS?
Probably 1 or two wins. And that’s offense only. Either Cespedes and Upton for two months might be worth 1 win more than Garcia defensively.
Dock_Elvis
1 win WAR? That actually makes most deadline deals not quite as important as they seem….given that might not translates to 1 win
stl_cards16 2
Yes, deadline deals, especially for big name rentals, are usually not “worth” it. But that 1 win could be very valuable this year. You don’t know how many future wins you’re trading, or if it will even be meaningful.
justinept
Cespedes is a better player and worth more than Upton. But uptons value starts with a top 100 guy because of the draft pick comp starched to him…
fuzzylogic101
You really should learn rules and read contracts. Both for Upton and Cespedes. You are wrong on both counts. Cespedes’s contract is especially bad for the acquiring team. They basically can’t even offer him a contract to May soon after the WS is over.
Injediwetrust
You could argue after their win today and the way the dugout responded to JUps HR in the first rain delay and the eventual win; AJ should let “his cards play out” riding JUp for the rest of the season and take the comp pick. Unless someone overpays there is no NEED to deal him.
libertyfighter
They might just do that. The Padres have a very very weak schedule in August, with the potential to win 20 games, which would put them right back in the race.