7:44pm: Alex Pavlovic of CSN Bay Area tweets that one scenario which was discussed between the Giants and Phillies was centered around young catcher Andrew Susac as well as right-hander Tyler Beede and two more minor leaguers. Clearly, that’s a sizable ask, but the much ballyhooed Susac would be a logical target for the Giants, as he’s blocked in San Francisco by Buster Posey, and the Phillies are in need of a long-term solution behind the plate.
2:07pm: A deal on Hamels is not likely to come together until tomorrow or possibly Friday, Jayson Stark of ESPN.com tweets.
12:12pm: The Giants are “fading” back of the pack chasing Hamels, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. San Francisco has not communicated with the Phillies on a deal in the last 24 hours, he adds.
It’s not entirely surprising to hear that San Francisco could fall out of the running. The club does have plenty of options in its rotation, so the immediate need is not pressing. And the Giants arguably lack the same stable of high-upside minor leaguers that other teams with interest can dangle.
8:51am:Â The Red Sox appear unlikely to land Phillies lefty Cole Hamels, according to a report form Rob Bradford of WEEI.com. Boston’s pursuit of the veteran has been complicated throughout by his no-trade clause, per the report.
While the Red Sox have seemed more an outside contender to add Hamels in recent weeks, the report provides interesting insight into how the Phillies will handle their decision. Philadelphia reportedly asked teams to submit their best offers on Hamels today, and presumably will move to work out a deal with the preferred suitor in relatively short order.
Bradford says there are indications that the Phillies may be devoting more attention to working with interested teams that do not appear on the list of teams over which Hamels has veto power. That may suggest that the clause is a significant barrier — and one, perhaps, that the Phillies do not want to deal with in finalizing an agreement.
As Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com recently tweeted, Hamels can be dealt to two American League clubs (the Yankees and Rangers) or seven National League clubs (the Nationals, Cardinals, Braves, Padres, Dodgers, Cubs, and Mets) without his consent. Of those teams, of course, Texas and Los Angeles have been most heavily tied to Hamels, with the Yankees and Cubs also mentioned at times as teams with possible interest.
Given what Friedman and AJ Preller did in the offseason, I don’t even think the Tulo or a potential Hamels deal will be the highlight of the deadline.
Just my opinion.
This could be a really crazy deadline.
Already has been better than most…
nobody wants to play for Boston
False.
Are you the same bruins94 on the dodgers message board who claimed Morse has never played for the giants? Disregard anything this guy says about baseball
I am not. So theres that…
I am not. So theres that…
I am not. But I wont let facts get in the way of a good story.
Except for Hanley, Sandoval and Porcello to name a few
*unless you give them a ridiculously overpaid contract
That’s ridiculous. The Red Sox are iconic, rich, and have two very recent World Series victories.
Ya except they aren’t going to be competitive any time soon…awful pitching and their best hitter is 42 and their second best hitter has practically no pop.
Lol. Ortiz isn’t their best hitter.
They’ll be competitive before you are. If I were a mlb player, I’d be willing to go there.
Ortiz is 39 and their second and third best players are both 22. The future looks fine.
Swihart, Moncada, Castillo, Betts, Bogarts are enough young talent that they will be fine
Make it 3
Players do generally hate playing in well supported organizations rife with historic tradition and recent success. They generally like to ply their careers in places where fan support is questionable. Most are afraid of being part of potential history.
Come on…get real.
Yea man no one wants to play for a team thats won 3 word series rings in the last 10 years (2004, 2007, 2013), has a top 3 farm system in baseball, is loaded with young talent, and is rich is money and history.
The RS argubably have one of the brightest futures in baseball. They have prospects, young talent, and money.
but little in the way of pitching.
Not true. They have 3 top LHP prospects in Rodriguez, Owens, and Johnson in AAA/MLB. They have Buchholz for next year. They have money to sign one of Price/Cueto/Greinke/Zimmermann. They have the prospects to trade for Ross/Cashner/Carrasco/Gray/ect
Next year, the RS could have a rotation that looks like:
Cueto/Ross/Buchholz/Rodriguez/Owens
Thats probably the 2nd best rotation in the ALE
Whether they dig into their pockets/prospect pool to make something like that happen is anyones guess
I’m glad they’re not getting him, Hamels is not worth blowing up the farm for especially since he can’t pitch against the AL.
Agreed. If RS are serious about contending they need to commit more money to free agents SP in the off season.
Yes, more bad contracts is what every team needs.
They need to make sure to pair a 37 year old Cueto with prospects down the line.
I prefer the Red Sox trading for a young controllable arm like Gray or Carrasco.
That is gonna take a lot of prospects and that is if they are actually available.
True, but you have to try. There has to be someone available.
Did you see the reported deal that the Indians wanted from Toronto? Betts or Xander would be going for Gray, absolutely. Devers and Rodriguez would be going for Carrasco and that is just to start the conversation.
Carrasco? Did he finally pan out? You would rather trade your top prospects for a maybe future ace vs a right now ace? If the redsoxs are definitely going to compete over the next 2-3 years, makes sense to get hamels. If its going to take longer I guess its carrasco, but given both options, they might as well just go after fair priced B Level FA pitchers, and hold onto their prospects. Carrasco, he maybe the ONE prospect of about 20 that the Phillies traded that COULD pan out. He still has a bit to go. In retrospect, the Phillies got an absolute steal for Lee,Halladay,Pence, and Oswalt. Big deal, they give up one player for 4. Prospects are prospects, I’ll take the proven players almost everytime.
just to add… Carrasco was supposed be top of the rotation material ……. 6 years ago. Just for some perspective for the win now teams who don’t want to give up their prospects.
Carrasco is less proven but he’s probably the better pitcher over Hamels at this point. I’d rather have him, his stuff, his youth, and his contract over Hamels.
@Kingjenry … “probably” ok, i respectfully decline. Hamels isn’t God, but hes certainly better than Carrasco, Carrasco is a 2A in Hamels world, if that. Being Proven goes a long way in the playoffs, unproven is certainly more of a gamble. I’d say, if your in a win now mode, and you trade for Carrasco over Hamels, thats a move that gets a GM fired. Hamels is one the best pitchers of his generation, don;t give me the meaningless W/L record. Can you say the same for Carrasco? At best right now, Carrasco is a late bloomer who is potentially coming into his projections, with being untested. Have your pick, I’d go Hamels any day vs carrasco. I’m glad the Phillies traded him for Lee. Id rather of had Lee of our teams window vs carrasco, we’d still be talking about his potential, as the window shuts. Hamels is dealing 95-96 mph fastballs into the 9th, with 4 pitches. Pretty tought to beat that. ill have to chcek in on carrasco, see what all the hype is, my guess is its still potential based. Being young isnt everything, it a played out buzz word
Depends on who you are I suppose… I like Carrasco but I don’t see him as young
Did you see how bad Hamels is against AL teams? In his last 2 interleague starts this season he only gone 5 innings and his career ERA in his last 10 starts against AL teams is over 4, why blow up the farm for a past 30 year old pitcher when you can get a young controllable arm?
@Randy – Carrasco is unproven, and is 28 yrs old, and they are still talking about his potential. Hamels came up in 06″, started dealing right away, was a NLCS and WS MVP by 08″, second year in the league… carrasco potential potential we still waiting on. I tried to look up his interleague, record, find the source and ill review it. The reason you make the move, is because your in win right now mode like the dodgers are. Their prospects could be the next carrasco, waiting 6 years for his potential, that still might not happen. At some point, you got to go for it. If you are in rebild mode, sure you sign a FA and keep the prospects, but if you want to go the WS, you trade for Hamels and take your best shot, no regrets. If not, youll always wonder what would of happened, as you wait for your prospects to win you a WS of their own, not develop, but win a WS of their own,
Did you ever see how bad Greg Maddux was against two of the more perennial bottom dwellers of the National League West, the Diamondbacks in the Rockies. 51 starts over the length of his career, a 4.50+ ERA and a 1.3+ WHIP. Going by those numbers and the same logic used by many regarding interleague play, one would have to assume that if he had played for the Dodgers or Giants his career would not have been stellar as he would’ve faced the Diamondbacks and Rockies much more often. This is the same type of logic as basing any players interleague starts stretched out over time or over his last two starts. I am not saying this because it is Hamels, I am saying it because it’s ridiculous.
Kershaw typically gets shelled in Denver as well. No idea why…huge ballpark…no oxygen.. But huge park..
I think the Indians would take a leaser deal for Carrasco if the other team also acquires either Swisher or Bourn but not sure if that’s true.
That is true. According to the Toronto Sun (I think), the Blue Jays offered Norris, Hoffman, and Pompey for Carrasco. So that gives you a good idea on the sky high price Carrasco will cost. Of course, it would cost less if a team takes on Bourn’s or Swisher’s contract, but the Red Sox have no use whatsoever for either of them.
No use sure, but they could always pick up the contract and release the player.
That’s a ridiculous demand for Carrasco if true.
Still have to try. Even if the price is too high. They got Pedro and Beckett without giving up anyone from the ML roster. Maybe Margot and Devers or Moncada get the conversation started.
I don’t trade Moncada. If I were them, I’d probably just sign an ace in the offseason. It is the best bet for the future anyways. By the time that players has declined, hopefully an ace has been developed.
Hopefully. The Red Sox haven’t developed a solid top of the rotation pitcher since Lester. Not sure I believe in their ability to do it. I’d rather not trade Moncada. But there may not be another way.
Moncada may not have as much value to a rebuilding team, as some other prospects, because of his contract.
That’s not hard, bye-bye Betts. Move him.
No way the A’s are trading Gray!
Can’t trade for a young controllable arm when you refuse to trade your prospects. At least not the ones that will actually get you said arm. Why would Oakland trade Gray? Why would Cleveland trade Carrasco? It won’t be for Cechini types.
Not sure why I got 11 thumbs down? Why should the Red Sox blow up the farm to get a pitcher who’s past 30 and isn’t that great against AL teams?
Because the Hamels isn’t good against the AL is ridiculous. He’s a top 15 pitcher in all of baseball. He’d be great in the AL and better by a long shot than anything else they have on the team.
I’m saying because he hasn’t been great his last 2 starts interleague this season, he can’t even last more than 5 innings against AL teams.
That sample size is nowhere near good enough to draw any kind of conclusion. Kershaw has had a bad start or two during his career; that doesn’t make him terrible. You can say that about every other “ace” pitcher, too.
He’s a very good pitcher but there’s no way he’s top 15 in all of baseball. He’s not even top 5 in his own division; Scherzer, deGrom, Fernandez, Harvey, and Syndergaard are all better. I could easily name at least a dozen more pitchers who I think are also clearly better than Hamels.
Syndergaard is already better than Hamels through 14 career starts, ok then. Talk about sample size.
10th in fWAR over the past three seasons as a starting pitcher. Call me when Harvey, deGrom, Syndergaard and Fernandez throw a 200 inning season. Pitching is more than just stuff and potential. Actually throwing a whole season in the majors is important too.
One of the undervalued abilities of an ace is the ability to provide his team with a quality 200 innings on a reliable basis. deGrom, Fernandez, Harvey and Syndergaard do not qualify. At least not yet. If you wish to put Hamels in the same class as Scherzer, I’m ok with that.
I’m not sure why this got so downvoted. A trade for Hamels doesn’t seem to be a risk worth taking when this season isn’t on the table. $70M/3yrs for ages 32-34 wouldn’t be bad in a FA context, but if the Sox have to give up their ML-ready prospects too it hardly seems worth it.
And the Red Sox other option is…..what? Wait for Sonny Gray to get close enough to free agency that Oakland decides they can’t afford him? Find more Porcello’s to overpay? Until Boston decides they will pay for a 30yr old in FA, or that their top prospects are not “untouchable”, Boston doesn’t have too many options.
This leaves the Red Sox in a terrible position.
Not really. There’s reports that they prefer younger, controllable type pitchers anyway. They could also be in on one of the big FA pitchers this winter.
who are these younger controllable pitchers? Tyson Ross has less years of control left. You think the Sox are going to get Sonny Gray or Chris Archer somehow? This controllable thing is sort of hilarious, because Hamels has 4 years of control. Teams arent paying for a back loaded free agent right hander who will make 28 million in his age 36 and 37 year old season. Not to mention, losing your draft pick.
just 22 mil in his age 35 season?
There’s no young, controllable #1 out on the market that wouldn’t require the entire farm system. Screw age, Cole Hamels is 31 and he doesn’t rely on velocity to be effective. He’s a guy who locates and has the pitching style that ages well. He’s a virtual Jon Lester in terms of numbers, his contract is below market value, and he’s a past winner. He wouldn’t require THAT many prospects; Margot and one or two others could conceivably get things rolling.
I bet you almost 100% that Margot has always been on the table and probably Owens too. The Phillies have probably not lowered their demands.
Why should they? Other players with reasonable contracts that are under control are getting great returns. There is no market for players underperforming with long term contracts in which a team is supposed to give up multiple young established, controlled players.
Phillies have not been interested in Red Sox 2nd-tier prospects for a year. Why start now?
Margot and Owens are far from 2nd-tier prospects. Seems like you do not realize this….
Hamels pitches off the best left handed change up in baseball. Even if he loses velocity (hes actually gained velocity the past two seasons) right handers wont dominate him. The same cannot be said for right handers who lose velocity. They end up getting hit hard by lefties. This is what people arent understanding, when they say lets sign a free agent.
Something like Margot, JBJ, Devers, and Brian Johnson could work for both sides. Tons of upside without giving up the catchers, Owens, or Betts/Bogaerts.
It’d work for the Red Sox. The players don’t match up well with what the Phillies want. They are deep in centerfielders and don’t need 2 more.
No one is interested in JBJ and you think you can get Hamels without giving up any blue-chippers? Holy entitlement!
Sox were in a terrible position as soon as they gave out the Hanley deal.
What changed?
They can always look into the starting pitching San Diego has to offer.
Well the prospect expectations has went from Kris Bryant,Seager,Mookie etc from teams in the offseason to De leon and company now.Just wait them out till the end of the season and get Hamels for a hot dog and a bucket of beer.The prospect expectation haul continues to drop,and no matter what RAJ says the Phillies want him traded bad or they would have already shut down all trade rumors weeks ago.
A healthy Hamels becomes even more valuable to teams not on his no trade clause in the off season. He becomes a 2 year contract, pitching at the same level and the same age as pitchers who are going to get 6 years committed. This is why there is bidding from Texas right now. I believe Hamels can restructure his no trade teams immediately after the World Series.
You don’t have to restructure the teams on your no-trade list. You can simply waive the clause if traded to a team that’s on it… As for all this – teams do not like to give up top prospects anymore because they’re almost impossible to get! You don’t get two comp picks anymore for losing free agents… you can’t throw huge money at ‘unsignable’ players in the mid rounds of the draft… you can’t throw huge money on the international market (in consecutive years, at least)… So if you cant acquire cheap talent as easily as you used to, then the effect of that is that teams aren’t going to give them them as easily as they used to.
Except for the Royals. They still like to give up prospects.
or every other team that has given up a top 100 prospect for a rental this past week. We live in a prospect era, where people read things on the internet and never see the player in person.
Prospects are failing at a higher rate than ever because the gap from the minor leagues to the majors is getting bigger and bigger because scouting is at your finger tips. There is video on every player, countless data. Players are not getting shifted on in the minor leagues. If you cant adjust, you will fail. Players like Domonic Brown, Justin Smoak, Mike Olt, Aaron Crow, and so on.
actually you can restructure your no trade list. Hamels did it already last offseason.
No. Phillies won’t get anything close to what they’d get now if they wait until the offseason.
I’m not sure who was expecting Bryant last offseason…but I’m not sure that was the major consensus. We’ve only heard rumors of Amaros outrageous demands. Boston still makes a lot of sense…and I’d think the no trade clause gets waived there… Unless Hamels wants to stay in Philadelphia. Phillies just need to get a high end player back…they can’t settle for a Cueto type haul..even if that was solid for Cincinnati.
I mean, I wouldn’t be shocked if people expected Bryant last year when he was the #2 prospect in baseball, people still expect the Dodgers to give up Seager, who’s currently the #1 prospect in baseball, or Urias, who’s a top 3-5 prospect in baseball, right behind Seager. It’s ridiculous to expect that kind of return, of course, but people still do.
People tend to be reactionary. When Myers was dealt for Shields… Quite a few thought the new trend was dealing top prospects. Teams don’t follow identical philosophies….and that’s why no bar in trades is really set. It’s why Kazmir didn’t set the bar. Cueto doesn’t set the bar.
to be fair, the prospect list is much weaker now that buxton, russell, bryant and correa have graduated.
The prospect list isn’t gold anyway…its a matter of opinion. Sure, we might be able to tell the difference between #1 and #100…but what’s really the difference between #40 and #60
Why? The A’s gave up a top 5 prospect for a year and a half of an unproven Jeff Samardzija. The Royals gave up a top 5 prospect for 2 years of James Shields. It happens.
Sorry they aeren’t moving fast enough for your entertainment, but the Phillies are sitting in the catbird seat. Gillick knew how to approach this.
I think the value on Hamels peaked last offseason, and now the Philadelphia front office is wisely letting it rise again.
@Vandals – I think everyone thinks the Phillies should just roll over and take 3 of a teams top 25-50 prospects… and we should be thrilled! Give me a break, if this trade ever goes down, everyone will see what Philly fans have seen since 2006, this Guy is special, and still is special. He is the Chuck Norris of baseball 🙂 He will do for the Dodgers what Curt Schilling did for the Dbacks and Redsoxs, except, Hamels is even better than Schilling because he throws from the left. Its nuts how baseball fans don’t see how great he is. will read the trade rumors months from now, and all the posts will be, the philies got robbed for hamels, no matter what prospects they get back. He is one of the best pitchers in all of the MLB right now, that you can add to your team for the stretch run… why isnt he worth a Seager or Urias? Get out of here, prospects are so over inflated, they are like college tuitions right now.
Hilarious that the Redsox would pay 70 million for Rusney Castillo, but dont want to cave in on picking up his 25 million dollar option of his 35 year old season. Christ.
You forgot about the prospects here…it is not all about money.
The rotation of Miley and Masterson looked amazing last night. The Redsox are not the Royals or Rays. They have an aging core, who needs to weigh the cons of having no pitching while these players fade or wait 5 years until these prospects actually adjust to the major leagues. Most prospects arent going to come up and suddenly be Carlos Correa. Addison Russell is barely playing above a replacement level 2nd baseman. Yes, prospects become stars, but the adjustment period is getting longer and longer. Hamels contract ends at the same time as Hanley and Pedroia. It allows the Redsox to not get caught in multiple contracts on the back end of a fading star. I do think the Redsox will sign Price, but I think they can pair him with Hamels. Prospects are as much of currency as they are future players on your roster. The Redsox are heavy in prospects and the currency needs to get spent.
The Red Sox core is not aging. The Red Sox plan for sometime has probably been to contend 2017 and forward. Our core will consist of Betts, Bogart’s, Swihart, Erod, Plus the tons of talent we have in the farm. Very few vets we have now will be on those teams. I’m thinking PD and Hanley will probably still be around.
I was just making a point that it is not because of the money as much of the prospects RS have to give up in addition to the money. The discussion was not about how bad is the current RS rotation.
Nice points Bob. But I very much doubt the Red Sox sign David Price. If anything, they’re a team that needs to commit to a rebuild and play the young players that they have the NE media publicize so much.
I expect the current GM is on borrowed time. I have no doubt he’s been making some moves that he’d rather not, but he will take the brunt of the failure. Red Sox ownership and high advisors have not been held accountable since the team was sold. Golden rule – he who has the gold…..rules.
They’d probably want Betts too
It doesn’t say that. it says the Phillies don’t want to deal with teams on the no trade list.
Wow. I am surprised that it took this long for this to surface. I would have thought that this news would have broken much sooner as soon as Hamels to the Red Sox rumors began a while ago.
Honestly think the Red Sox put this into the media to be like “hey… we tried. Not our fsult for failing to get him”
Sounds like the Blue Jays.
would like to see Hamels with Yanks given a shaky rotation. although even with the horrendous spot start by another bad CC (not named Sabathia), i really hope we don’t have to give up any of the top 5 prospects… it’s taken so long to actually have a working farm system. i think he goes to an NL team.
The yanks would have to give up at least 2 top five guys and probably at least 1-2 more top 10.
Agreed. Probably Severino, Bird, Sanchez and maybe Refsnyder.
Completely disagree. While I don’t love the Yankees rotation they absolutely have to get younger and more athletic. Otherwise they will look a lot like the Phillies shortly. You can’t gut your farm system right now.
Or they could try and win the world series. The Yankees bought most of the Dominican Republic last year. Those prospects will fill their top 10 soon enough. Losing Aaron Judge and Gary Sanchez is worth not wasting what could be the best offense in baseball when healthy. The Yankees could easily lose a 5 game series to the Royals just because they run into Cueto twice. The Yankees need someone to match a pitcher like that. Pineda is good, but the innings in October get high, and he hasnt been completely reliable.
Noticing the Braves are not on the no-trade list. Any mention if they have interest?
The Braves do not have interest… they have a ton of league-minimum salaried pitching.
Down voting a question? I was asking for input…troll season
Not to mention they were interested in Lester. It was just too soon
Too soon…but I do think the Braves are sly and might make a solid surprise move
My up-vote wiped it out…lol. There are definitely trolls out and about. They really need to remove the down-vote tally as too many people are distracted by it and some trolls just get their jollies down-voting.
down voting toughens the thin skinned. I do use mine sparingly though. I also up vote. shouldn’t use one without using the other.
My only issue is why downvote a question? I just don’t get it..not that votes matter…I don’t say things to be popular or unpopular…I just speculate and have conversation to be enlightened.
I upvote when I can’t add anything commentary wise… I comment to add to someone’s comment or round out a.conversation. the only time I downvote is when a statement is extreme and trollish or inappropriate
I thought Hamels had no problem with the Sox, not that I’d want the Sox to trade for him.
not anymore
He doesn’t. The Phillies just dont want to deal with the NTC.
not sure the No Trade is the “road block” maybe..the..we don’t want to give you our good players or prospects in a deal is the “road block”
I’m wondering if the no trade list problem for the Phillies is that a) they don’t want any additional compensation going to Hamels, which could impair their return, and b) they no longer have the time to deal with negotiating with Hamels if it’s a team on the no-trade list. That was a foreseeable circumstance, so I’m a little surprised they didn’t take it into account earlier.
Come on Cash….. Refsnyder, Warren and Bird. Get. It. Done.
In what world does this even get close to getting it done. Severing ot Judge would be the starting point for any deal with Yankees
Damnit Jim, I’m a GM not a magician.
Yeah that isn’t happening
I think the market is waiting on the Tigers……
Cespedes becomes the best run producing bat available, and teams will want to compare the sot of renting Price to that of committing to Hamels.
Other players are being bandied about as well, as prices are set. Should have a lot of last minute moves.
It would be nice if Dave would just sell and put us Tiger fans out of our misery for this year. Its like a car crash, I can’t stop watching.
This is more bad news for the Red Sox. It’s clear that they desperately need an established ace, as “potential aces” or relying on the development of young guys simply won’t do. The market in Boston doesn’t allow for complete rebuilds so I imagine the Front Office is desperate to win next year. On paper the Phillies and Sox matchup well; a deal with Owens, Margot, Marrero and a lesser player should intrigue Philadelphia. It seems like other suitors (LA, Texas, Chicago) either don’t have players that interest Philly or won’t include them in a deal. Interesting to see how this plays out.
On paper, they do match up well. But it seems, just like other suitors, the players Boston offers don’t interest Philly, and the ones that do aren’t being offered in the deal (Betts, Boegarts, Swihart).
YOU FORGOT SWIHART!!!!!!!!!!!
IMO more important for RS is to make changes sooner rather than later at GM&M level. Too many bad decisions by Ben and a below average or mediocre at best manager combined into a last place last season and a very probable another one this season. New faces and a new attitude are needed more than this or that player before the off season starts.
Don’t know how to delete a message when posted twice by mistake. There is just edit option.
Cherrington better do something this deadline and offseason, considering he’s very likely on the hotseat if the redsox continue faltering next season.
Seems like a bad time to post that the giants are fading away when it seems less likely that the dodgers are going to go for it given that they just picked up latos. Less competition increases their chances. Plus if Hamels preferred to go the Giants and they were able to match a package the Rangers offered (consider the fact that the giants will take on the whole whole contract) the Phillies would probably be fine with that. He’d want to go the Giants because they are built to win this year and for the foreseeable future. The Rangers have a bunch of question marks and have to deal with the Astros and Angels.
Latos stinks
So the Giants and Red Sox are out, which means the teams that are still in the race are the…
• Yankees
• Rangers
• Dodgers
• Astros
• Cubs
Plus the Diamondbacks and Blue Jays as dark horses. It’ll be interesting to see what happens!
Refsnyder, Warren and Shreve should convince RAJ.
Please disregard this guy. I promise you that not all NY fans are this out of touch with market value.
Every fan base has them, sadly. Fans should know better to not judge an entire fanbase on a few outliers.
Keep making Yankee fans look bad why don’t ya?
Jim Salisbury feels Hamels is going to Texas. Who knows anymore. I’d be surprised if it wasn’t to a team though in the postseason hunt, which Texas really isn’t. I’m still leaning towards the Dodgers. Not that I know more than Salisbury though, LOL, but we can get predictions right as well, can’t we?
My gut says Texas. They have a solid farm system that won’t be crippled by trading for Hamels and that’s without having to give up their top guy in Gallo and probably not Mazara (according to rumors). And since they’re looking at next season as much, if not more, than this season, it makes even more sense. Add in that they aren’t on Hamels’ no-trade list and they’re a decent match.
Houston seems to be going for it this year and has the farm to also make a deal without crippling the system, but they’re on his no-trade list. I would find it weird in the end if the Phillies went to Cole and said, “Houston is the only team that made an offer worth moving you for so it’s either you waive to go there and they’ll pick up your option or you’re staying here” that he would say no. No state income tax plus he’s already okay with going to the Rangers, so I’d be surprised if he said no.
Dodgers strike me as the runner-up to the Rangers because I just don’t see their best package beating the Rangers’. If the Astros didnt need Cole’s approval, I’d rank them 2nd and LA 3rd.
If Texas gets Hamels, they should be a contender next year. They’ll also get Darvish back, and Gallo/Profar could be solid regulars next year. Hamels also fits the price range for them, there’s no way they can afford to go 5-7 years with Cueto/Grienke/Price this offseason. Especially with Choo on the books.
I don’t see Hamels pitching in Texas, I see the Dodgers, Yanks, Cubs, or Padres.
I would like to see St. Louis offer a package of Garcia, Kaminsky, Lyons, Bourjous and Adams for Hamels and Howard. Philly eats 50% of Howards contract. I think that is a win, win for both teams and it gives Philly 4 out of 5 MLB ready players.
I suppose, if you value mlb ready players who are hurt, aging, or just plain stink.
Not sure which player you are referring to as stinking? Garcia has a sub 2.50 ERA, Lyons would fit in as a 4 or 5 man, Bourjous could play center and yes Adams is hurt but it’s not like Philly needs anymore this year and he will be ready by next season. Although I appreciate your comment it makes no sense.
You should probably stop thinking Peter Bourjos has any value, the guy had one good year years ago. Garcia is 28 and has a long injury history, so it isn’t as if he’s someone to lead the way to a new future for the Phillies, Tyler Lyons is now 27 with no real history of success in the big leagues- sure, he’s pitching in the major leagues, but is he really a major league pitcher? Matt Adams is fine- but does a rebuilding team want to try to build with a 260 pound 27 year old first basement next year who spent this year injured? Kaminksy is a fine B+ prospect. These are just guys you don’t really value yourself.
delete
I’ve always wondered why a team is on a players no-trade list. Like, maybe Cole doesn’t like the weather in the Bay Area. Or maybe he’s not a fan of a manager, etc.
It seems like some choose teams based on location, others simply use it for leverage. Often you see teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc on a player’s no-trade list not because they wouldn’t want to go there, but because they’re the most likely to be big players in trades for the big names and that player can usually get something out of them in exchange for waiving his NTC (picking up an option, adding on a year, etc)
I’d use a combination of both. I’d always put a team like Miami on my NTC despite loving the city because I would never want to play for that ownership group
You will also see a lot of division rival names as the accepted teams because players know that a great many teams will not trade within their division. By adding teams like Washington or the Mets it is essentially adding two names to the no trade list.
Shelley and Turco were at Mets game on Tuesday. Were they there to watch Shields pitch? Or were they there to watch Syndergaard?
Wait here. Boston is out because of the Hamels NTC, The one Hamels WAS NEVER ASKED TO WAIVE ? That one ? People writing are so full of it it’s not funny !
I predict this will end poorly.
Right, after the Giants tattooed Hamels, as others did in starts surrounding, the no-no it doesn’t make a lot of sense to give up the farm for him. At 31 there’s too many warnings from the Zito deal.
Zito was always overrated. He didn’t post very good krates and walked a lot of guys. His velocity was never that good but it dropped BEFORE the Giants gave Thar ridiculous FA contract to him.
Hamels no hitter didn’t mean anything… but Hamels throwing mid 90s at the end of a no hitter in hot weather certainly showed there is no physical problems with him. He has had no velocity dips.
well no one want to bite on the demands of philly so i wouldnt be surprise if hamel stays. if i was philly i would take the best offer i can get and run with it and finally start to rebuild. like they should been doing for a few years now
Cardinals will send Tim Cooney & Sam Tuivailala to the Phillies for Hamels & Howard.
I realize you guys are at a busy time, but I’ve tried to alert you of two very relevant tweets from Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald from 8AM that at least refute a little of what’s in Rob Bradford’s story.
twitter.com/ScottLauber/status/626411066172420096
twitter.com/ScottLauber/status/626411117569548288
It’s altogether possible Hamels won’t get traded. Price is now on the market, and RA’s strategy may not pan out with the extra competition. it’ not the end of the world for the Phillies–Hamels will do fine next year in their uniform, but it’s probably not what the franchise should do at this moment in time.
I disagree. I do think Price’s availability changes some things, but it shouldn’t affect the interest in or return for Hamels too much in the end. What I think it does do is force the Phillies to wait til Price is moved to move Cole.
The only way I can see Hamels’ trade value going down would be if Price went to LA because then you get arguably the biggest player in the market (LA) out of the Hamels bidding. If Price goes to Chicago, Toronto, or New York, nothing changes with Hamels because the main teams looking at him will still be looking at him (Texas, LA, Houston, Boston). No matter what, Texas and Boston would still be interested because neither is a suitor for a rental like Price.
As a Phillies fan, I hope Price goes to Chicago, Toronto, or New York since I don’t see any of them landing Cole in the end. And it would then leave a desperate for a starter LA in the market for one with Cole being at the top of that list.
Phillies went to the Yankees again and asked for Severino or Judge. Something tells me Hamels is pushing them to trade him to the Yankees more than anyone else.
I do think the Yanks will be in on both Price or Hamels. Yanks might offer Phillies, Lindgren, Sanchez, Jagielo, and Bird or Lail.
I don’t think Hamels is pushing for a trade to NY. I just think that’s the Phillies management trying to get last minute offers and seeing if they can pry loose a prospect previously deemed untouchable. Just doing their due diligence to see if NY has gotten any more desperate. And as we see, NY is holding their ground.
I think the Hamels trade comes down to the Cubs, Yanks, and Dodgers, Cubs send Baez, McKinney, and Edwards, the Yanks offer Nova, Lindgren, and Sanchez, Dodgers offer De Leon, Barnes, and Verdugo.
I’m thinking Texas with Cole going to the Rangers for something like:
1. Nomar Mazara, Jake Thompson, and Luis Ortiz
2. Nick Williams, Jorge Alfaro, and Luis Ortiz
Basically some combo of 1-2 of Mazara, Williams, and Alfaro plus a SP like Thompson, and another player. I’m hoping Chi Chi isn’t involved.
Oh yeh, typical Boston fans posts….we’re the best, 3rd rated farm system, little Petey at 2nd and everybody wants to play for Boston.
No chance to get Hamels….the farm system is vastly overrated mostly by ESPN and good old Peter Gamons, most prospects brought up don’t live up to the hype, see Doubrount (just DFA’d) Middlebrooks, Bradley, etc.
Where was all that money when Lester was supposed to be signed? The rest of the rotation is string, and glue and hope for the best, and great off season signings of Panda, and the horrible left fielder, Hanley.