Rumors connecting the Red Sox and Cole Hamels have been circulating for months, with the lack of an ace atop their rotation being aĀ common refrain. However, Rob Bradford of WEEI.com reports that Hamels and fellow established ace Johnny Cueto are unlikely candidates for the Sox, as theirĀ top priority heading into the trade deadline is to target younger arms that are under control beyond the 2015 season. Neither Cueto nor Hamels fits that mold, as Cueto is a free agent at season’s end and Hamels is 31 years of age.
The Red Sox are looking at both starters and relievers in their search for pitching, according to Bradford, which widens the array of possible trade targets even further. There’s little sense in speculating which arms will land on Boston’s wish list, though recent reports have indicated that one pitcher who meets this criteria, Athletics right-hander Sonny Gray, is off limits as the deadline nears. Assistant GM David Forst said point blank in a recent radio appearance (h/t: CSN Bay Area’s Joe Stiglich):Ā “Sonny Gray’s not going anywhere.”
Boston has employed this approach recently, acquiring young starters Joe Kelly and Wade Miley in separate trades over the past calendar year, though the results have been mixed, at best. Miley got off to a rough start in his tenure as a member of the Red Sox, but he’s been very good since May 1, working to a 3.41 ERA in 68 2/3 innings. The results for Kelly haven’t been as promising; the former Cardinal has a 4.96 ERA in 24 starts with the SoxĀ due to shaky control and a hittable fastball, all of which contributed to the decision to option the hard-throwing righty to Triple-A Pawtucket last month.
GM Ben Cherington and his staff will have multiple avenues to explore in an attempt to achieve this goal. As we saw last July, the Sox moved veteran righty John Lackey in order to acquire Kelly along with first baseman/outfielder Allen Craig. In the offseason, Miley was acquired for young righties Allen Webster and Rubby De La Rosa. Boston’s been willing to deal from its farm system and its Major League roster in order to pull in this type of pitcher, and the front office should again be able to go either route. The Sox have a rich, if somewhat depleted farm system that includes the likes of Manuel Margot, Henry Owens, Garin Cecchini, Brian Johnson and Rafael Devers, among others. Similarly, however, there are veteran pieces on the team that would figure to fetch a nice return. Clay Buchholz has been outstanding of late, and late-inning righties Koji Uehara and Junichi Tazawa have both performed well in 2015. Perhaps none of those names could fetch a premier young arm on their own, but any could be paired with young talent to facilitate a deal.
Boston also has the type of Major League ready talent that many clubs covet around the diamond. We’ve heard multiple times that Mookie Betts, Xander Bogaerts and Blake Swihart are each likely untouchable, but perhaps the Sox would reconsider if a tantalizing enough pitcher were to be dangled from a trade partner. Other MLB-ready pieces that may be easier to acquire could include Jackie Bradley Jr. and Deven Marrero, both of whom are appealing but likely have lower ceilings than the aforementioned young talent.
Boston is currently 36-44, placing them last in the AL East and seven behind the Orioles for the division lead. Of course, the entire AL East is essentially up for grabs, with the Orioles, Yankees, Blue Jays and Rays all separated by only a game and a half in the standings.
baseballfan 3
Napoli for Gerrit Cole makes all the sense in the world for both teams.
Brixton
Only if the Pirates include Starlin Marte and Josh Harrison too.
Monkeyās Uncle
I hope you were kidding… why in the world would the Pirates want to do this???
AsFan89
He’s kidding. Mike Napoli’s mom wouldn’t make that trade as the Pirate’s GM.
bobbleheadguru
I agree. Since the Red Sox are complete set in the outfield, they have no need for McCutchen. Cole makes more sense.
stymeedone
They were completely set in the OF when they signed Hanley too. Doesn’t seem to deter them at all, even if the player has never played OF.
daver4470
There’s a job waiting for you in Boston sports radio, good sir or madam….
gamemusic3 2
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Willy
They really havent been willing to deal from their farm system. The guys they traded were guys that saw Major league time, had struggles & that they determined wouldnt be good for them in the Major leagues. Until they deal an Owens, Cecchini….I wouldnt say that theyve been willing to deal prospects.
bruinsfan94 2
They havent really been dealing from prospects because they are still in a kinda of rebuilding. Cecchini and Owens could easily be moved. Owens stock has fallen some.
stl_cards16 2
And Cecchini’s stock is pretty non-existent.
User 4245925809
He caught the dreaded AAA-itis disease. Hope his brother Gavin, currently doing well at AA for the Mets is immune to it.
jr428
Paxton? Though I don’t know if Boston would have anything Seattle would need/want
Draven Moss
I’m not sure if Boston would want to pay the price to acquire him. He is a pretty good pitcher but not necessarily what they need; they have enough mid-rotation guys and prospects of that nature. What they need is an ace, and the price to acquire a young one is gonna be extremely steep.
jr428
True, they’d probably want Walker, or even Hultzen, but Seattle definitely won’t let Walker go now, and I dunno what’s up with Hultzen at this moment.
User 4245925809
Paxton is everything Boston fans hope Rodriquez hopes to become.. Seattle in no way, shape, nor form is going to trade that kid, represented by Boras or not.. He is the makings of a frontline #1 Ace who throws (and sits) 95-97mph as a LH SP with a FILTHY changeup and a decent curve.
5y of control left.. Start with Rodriquez.. Then Devers.. Maybe Margot.. Paxton is head and shoulders better than Rodriquez… Watch a couple of his games and see why. They’d move Walker 1st.
Draven Moss
I have not been as impressed as you’ve been by watching him. His control issues and stuff isn’t as good as Walker’s IMO. The latter was always a better prospect too.
Brixton
Ken Giles for Manuel Margot
TJ House for Garin Ceccihini
Matt Garza and cash for Travis Shaw and Bryce Brentz
Thoughts?
Draven Moss
I’d decline every single one but the second. Margot has too much potential to trade for a reliever IMO, and Garza isn’t gonna solve their rotation problems.
Brixton
Garza is having a bad year, I wouldn’t slap a ‘declining’ tag on him yet. Wouldn’t shock me to see a team offer a similar package for him. Shaw and Brentz are nothing special, but could be appealing to a rebuilding team like the Brewers. Shaw is 20th and Brentz is 21st in the Sox’ farm.
Manuel Margot is roadblocked in BOS, but I’d see your reasoning about wanting to keep him. Giles is a top reliever with elite potential and would require such a player to acquire.
Draven Moss
I’m just not convinced Garza would help the rotation, that’s all, especially if they would still be paying a significant amount of cash. I really don’t think the Red Sox need a back-end/middle-rotation starter and what they truly need is a great pitcher to lead the rotation. All three proposals are completely fair in my mind, and I’m aware that Margot looks to be currently blocked in Boston. That could change depending upon what they plan to do with Hanley beyond this year and next. And if Margot were to be traded, I would want him to be apart of a package for an ace.
bruinsfan94 2
Trading for Giles doesn’t make sense as long they are not contending. I dont think many teams would trade a top prospect for a reliever (baring the Erod trade but his stock was declining). More likely 2-3 lesser guys. Brentz and Shaw for Garza would be fair but they would have to pay most of his contract. The Red Sox dont need another overpaid number 4-5 starter.
stymeedone
Why would Cleveland want Cecchini, and where would they play him? He’s a nondescript hitter who is average defensively. If he’s not good enough to be a prospect for Boston, why would he be good enough for Cleveland to give up TJ House?
slider32
Cherrington missed the boat on trading for an ace, you snooze, you loose! All the Sox prospects have under achieved to this point! It looks like they are in the same boat as the Mets in that they can’t move their peripheral players to improve their team.
bruinsfan94 2
Most prospects fail. What ace were they gonna get? Hamel’s has been on the market for a year and noone has met the price so its hard to fault the Red Sox. The Red Sox need more then one pitcher. Also Betts, Bogarts, Erod have all been looking good. Swihart is still super young and a catcher and its unlikey his value has been effected. Its not like Grey or one of the Mets pitchers is on the market.
timpa
Well if they traded for Hamels in the offseason theyd prob have a few more wins right now and not be 7gb.
bruinsfan94 2
But he would have not really made the difference. Also as I said its been pretty much agreed upon by all sources that Amaro has not been reasonable in his demands. The players the Phillies wanted were players that have contributed to the Red Sox season so far mostly. So its very possible that the improvement short term wouldn’t have been great and long term could have been a reduction if key young players were moved.
double
Amaro should’ve taken Craig and JBJ like Cherington offered. He was unreasonable to ask for more.
bruinsfan94 2
So no middle ground? Ether Swihart and Betts or Craig and JBJ? Can you please cite sources? Where has it been said that Craig and JBJ were offered and if they were as center pieces? I know that link doesn’t exist. Pretty much every legit MLB source has said that the trade request have been over the top. The Phillies have been in free fall and yet still have Hamels, Utley, Revere,Pap Etc.
double
The Boston Globe report was that Cherington offered “Major League players” for Hamels. People inferred that was Craig and JBJ, both of whom were Major Leaguers. It certainly could’ve been other Major Leaguers. It probably wasn’t Dustin Pedroia. Maybe Shane Victorino? Mike Napoli? Daniel Nava? Craig Breslow? Put in any Major League players you like into the Cherington offer.
You’re right about the Phillies. They haven’t been willing to take what’s offered to them. They still have those players. If they’d accepted the Red Sox offer they wouldn’t.
bruinsfan94 2
That was one report. It also said that the offer was high on the MLB side which implies that there were minor league players in the deal. They can infer all they want but you are leaving out players that would have value such as Bogarts and Kelly (No longer has it but did at the time.) The report names no center pieces. Basing off one report and then infering what that report means is absurd. Its likely that Craig was involved only to offset money a bit. i’m sure the Phillies would like something like that to happen as then they have a chance of gaining something from a player whose performing poorly. Ether way Craig would be a 4th player in a trade.
You make it sound like the Phillies are in this great position. They have one of the worst teams in MLB and a meddling farm team. Non of those players will gain value over time. The longer they wait to trade players the longer the rebuild.
The Red Sox are not the only team who was or is interested in him. The Dodgers, Yankiees, Ranger Etc have also not met the Phillies asking price.
double
If the report was that the offer was āhighā on the MLB side, that implies that there were less minor league players and/or that the minor league players were ālessā in quality. So they werenāt the attractive part of the deal. It had been reported elsewhere that Amaro wanted but that he, Swihart, and Betts were unavailable. So if the top player in the trade wasnāt Craig or JBJ, then it was Kelly. Perhaps it was Kelly, JBJ, Craig, and a lesser minor leaguer 11th-20th in the system. If that was a good offer, then Amaro blew it.
I donāt see anything I said about the Phillies being in a great position. Theyāre in an awful position. There have been no reports that the Dodgers, Yankees, or Rangers ever made an offer for Hamels. Jon Moresi has written repeatedly that the Yankees have no interest in him and never made an offer. The only two teams whose offers have been reported were the Red Sox and Padres. So maybe youāre right that Amaro shouldāve accepted what Cherington was willing to give him. As far as we know itās the best heās been offered so far.
stymeedone
It is Boston’s fault because they were one team that could have met the price. They had the depth to trade a Betts, or Boegarts or Swihart. Injuries and bad seasons hadn’t happened yet. They chose not to.
bruinsfan94 2
That is some of the worst logic I have seen on this site. How do they have the depth to trade those guys? They are all starters. Market value is what someone is willing to pay. It would also take an aweful lack of foresight to plan around a season and think that nobody is gonna be hurt or have a bad year. Also its not like there was gonna be a one for one trade. Cole Hamels is not the Answere to the Red Sox problems. The Phillies are a mess and you should not blame thier problems on other teams.
mookiessnarl
Bogaerts, Betts and ERod say hi. They’re really like you to reconsider calling them underachievers.
bruinsfan94 2
I cant wait for this whole thing about Red Sox overrated prospects goes away. Its an absurd myth that has no basis in fact or reality.
mookiessnarl
It’s not going away. Any more than the “can he pitch?” line will ever go away. They just like to taunt.
mwk89
We’ve been spoiled by trout and bryant, expecting every prospect to just mash or be an ace from the get-go
mookiessnarl
Those guys are the best of their generation. Prospect doesn’t equal superstar. Sometimes they’re just very solid major leaguers. The Red Sox have produced three of those from their farm over the last three seasons, and Brock Holt who is a solid role player. Not sure how many more have to come up through the system and contribute before people lay off the ones that didn’t.
Draven Moss
I don’t think any cheap, cost-controlled aces (unless they want another mid-rotation starter, which they have plenty of) are readily available on the market and if so, the cost would be extremely steep. The only names that come to mind are Gray and Sale, and I doubt either will be available for quite some time, if at all.
bruinsfan94 2
I could see Gray being moved but the price would be insane. I’m thinking at least three top prospects and a couple other good ones. I dont know if I would want them to do it but he’s very good. I would think Swihart, Devers, Margot, Owens, Marreo would be a very good offer but they would probably want Erod.
bhambravesfan
So someone like Teheran, Wood, Miller? Not sure they have what it takes to touch any of those 3
bruinsfan94 2
They have what it takes but just as it would be unwise for the Braves to trade them it would be unwise for the Sox to part with the amount of young talent that would call for.
vinscully16
… just like every other team in baseball, prioritizing young pitching with remaining years of control – not exactly a unique approach. The Sox should prioritize two starting pitchers that routinely pitch more than five innings and seem opposed to walking 4-6 batters per start. Just a thought.
Steve Adams
There are plenty of teams prioritizing Cole Hamels, Johnny Cueto, Scott Kazmir, etc. this summer. Any team would like to add controllable young arms, sure, but not every team is placing that goal ahead of some of the more prominent arms on the free agent market.
vinscully16
True, Steve, but the point remains, the approach mentioned above is not unique to the Red Sox and seems like more of the same nonsense that’s landed the Sox Miley and Porcello – it’s a flawed approach. Sox need quality starters, Sox need to pay for appropriate talent, seeking “controllable” arms seems to lack winning priorities.
slider32
Only the contenders go after the pitching rentals at the deadline.
bobbleheadguru
I am thinking the Tigers would be happy to take Porcello for his “functional equivalent” (Greene), if the Red Sox kick in about $40MM. Fair?
Draven Moss
The Red Sox aren’t gonna do that.
bobbleheadguru
Just for some perspective here….
Porcello will cost FORTY TIMES the salary of Greene next year.
They are the same age with very similar stats (some great games, some terrible games). Porcello has been in the league for 6+ years, Greene only 1. That is the main difference. Tread of the tires with a massive salary v. inexperience.
Porcello does not seem as comfortable in Boston as in Detroit.
Draven Moss
Then if that is the case, why would the Tigers do that? The Red Sox gave him an extension because they have faith in him replicating last year’s numbers.
theprisoner1958
Cherington can’t carry theo’s ipad
haljordan77
He’s not mentioned in the article but I wonder if the Red Sox would be willing to include Brock Holt in a Clay Buchholz trade.
Perhaps Buchholz and Holt to the Astros for Michael Feliz RHP(org. Top 5 per BA and major league ready) and 1-2 other young pitchers.
daver4470
I think they absolutely would for the right deal, but they probably won’t rush to move him, or make him the first name brought up to sweeten any proposed deal. This might be a good time to sell high on Holt, though. He had a poor second half last year, and there are certainly still questions about whether he can be consistently effective if you give him a regular starting spot. So far so good this year, but he kind of fell off a cliff in the second half last year (.327/.371/.463 in the first half, .219/.278/.271 in the second).
But realistically, the Sox have a lot of fragile players on their roster right now, and Holt gives them a nice security blanket for the inevitable injuries (as he’s done this year).
bruinsfan94 2
Thats a pretty bad deal for Boston. Buchholz is pitching well and has a team friendly low risk contract. He would be worth more then Feliz by himself.
Josh I
The way I see it, Gray is a step below untoucheable. He’s not a Trout or Kershaw or Cutch or Felix, where he’s simply not going anywhere for any package. Instead, he’s not going anywhere UNLESS someone presents a monster deal. Like, it would take a massive overpay to acquire him, so he probably won’t be moved any time soon. It probably wouldn’t be worth it for the buyer.
edcl51
Hamels WAS NEVER going to Boston. You can’t shop for a Ferrari and attempt to buy with food stamps ! This is why they are where they are ! Want top level pitching and offer second rate players, F Boston. CUBS have the prospects I want
bruinsfan94 2
Not the Red Sox Fault that they dont want to trade tons of good prospects and pay a big contract. Hard to blame any team but the Phillies for their state. Look at how fast the Braves are rebuilding whilie the Phillies wait and hope that the Red Sox will give up Betts or Swihart or the Dodgers will give up seeger.
Willy
You are obvisously a misguided Phillies fan. Boston is a much better team to the Phillies and has a far better farm system. The problem isnt the Red Sox and what they MAY have offered, the problem is Ruben Amaro. He has refused to back down from his demands for either Hamels or Papelbon and that is exactly why they remain with the Phillies. You act like the Only team that has been in on Hamels is the Red Sox, wrong, there have been multiple teams in on both Hamels and Papelbon and NONE of them have been able to make a deal because Amaro’s demands are ridiculous. Now the Phillies have lost not only the Red Sox who are No longer interested in Hamels but all the other teams that had interest in either player. The Phillies wont trade either player until management fires Amaro.
KnuckleNasty
Maybe the Red Sox should just wait until some teams get into some extraordinary financial distress, like Montreal or Arizona did, so they can get their “ace”. Casey Fossum-lite isn’t igniting the Phillies hearts….lol
Chris Archer would look pretty good in Boston colors….probably should look there. He’d be a good mix to add to the clubhouse. They seem to like suspect super young prospects for real pitchers, because all the Red Sox older prospects are too good to trade. And yet…5th place.
slider32
Mets should trade Harvey to the Sox for Betts, Moncato, and Holt. The Sox and Mets both make the playoffs, but they can’t wait too long.
southpawjoe
Yea I don’t see Sonny Gray going anywhere anytime soon. Only way I can see him being traded would be to the Dodgers for Seager/Urias. Grays contract/control makes him that much more valuable and also only being 25. I can only imagine a Kershaw/Greinke/Gray combo though jesus lol.
Willy
Just an FYI, the Red Sox are NOT looking for a lefty pitcher, they are Only looking for a Righty that has some time left on his deal that they may be able to extend at some point, this severly limits them to the point where they may not find a trade partner and may be forced to either continue on as is or overpay for a free agent pitcher next off season (which I wouldnt be against).