10:50am:Ā The GiantsĀ “don’t have a strong enough package of prospects” to landĀ Hamels, Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweets.
8:20am:Ā The Giants are “making a strong push” for Phillies lefty Cole Hamels, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports on Twitter. San Francisco has previously been mentioned as a suitor, but it appears that the team is looking to make a serious attempt at landing the lefty.
Of course, we heard yesterday that the Astros, too, were also driving after Hamels. And there were indications that the Diamondbacks had entered the conversation as well. It’s not yet clear, though, that clubs with more long-standing interest — particularly, the Rangers and Dodgers — have been displaced as the likeliest landing spots.
From the Giants’ perspective, yesterday’s news suggested that the club was interested in adding aĀ starter, but only if it was a significant upgrade. And San Francisco did not seem terribly likely to actually pull something off.
It remains to be seen, of course, whether the run at Hamels will amount to anything. The Giants do have forward-looking financial flexibility, as Rosenthal notes on Twitter, but the same could probably be said of several other teams reportedly in the hunt. It’s not clear what kind of package the team would be interested in dangling, though young catcher Andrew Susac would seem likely (in my opinion) to hold significant interest to Philadelphia.
Hamels could block a deal to the Giants, who are not on his list of nine teams to whom he can be dealt without consent. (Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com tweeted the updated list recently.) It’s not clear at present whether that would pose any issues.
just trying to drive up the price for cole hamels… dodgers and rangers have their division rivals …
I don’t quite understand what you meant by that last part. Care to elaborate?
Dodgers and Rangers have been trying to get Hamels. But since the Astros and Giants are pushing for Hamels is going to run up the price for those 2 teams to give up more so the other won’t get him
Thanks, that was what I thought he probably meant, but the way it was stated confused me.
Isn’t it obvious?
it’s a tactic used to get what you want.,..drive up the price… dodgers and rangers are the favorite, but astros and giants drive up the price…now who will budge with their top prospects first???
Yeah. I know the tactic. I guess I was just confused by the wording. I think the Rangers will probably budge first since they don’t have the money or attractiveness to get a bug pitcher in FA.
You might be wrong on Texas money. They are also attractive due to Texas income tax status.
Not really. The Astros did try to run the price up on the Rangers, but were told Hamels wouldn’t waive his no-trade clause to go there as soon as yesterday.
I could have sworn I read an article saying Hamels would be willing to go to Houston a month ago. That said, I was busy yesterday and may have missed where it was reported yesterday he wouldn’t. Do you have the link or the info on who reported it, Mason?
I read both articles mentioned- the one when Houston was solidly in first and he was willing and the recent one stating it’s unlikely (my own interpretation being because they are fading somewhat.)
That;s sweet, how nice of them š — Phillies fan here
If the Dodgers and Rangers are competing against each other for Hamels, I doubt the Giants are driving up the price. They don’t have the prospects to do it. If the Rangers and Dodgers are in a prospects war with each other for Hamels, no offer the Giants make is really going to move the needle.
Yeah, I didn’t understand that. The Giants have had some recent success with players who were thought to be fringy prospects, but their farm system is a little weak these days.
I agree but I’d rephrase that. I don’t think the Giants have the “touted prospects” to pull off a trade. I mean a year ago someone like Matt Duffy would have been considered a “player to be named later” and Panik wouldn’t have garnered much interest whereas Gary Brown probably would have. But look at Panik and Duffy now, near to or over .300 hitters and presenting HUGE value for what they earn under team control for years. Gary Brown has been released by both the Giants and Dodgers.
I don’t know the farm system that well but I do wonder how many players they have down there that might surprise us but currently present next to no trade value.
Gary Brown lost his value more than a year ago and he got dropped by the Angels and Cardinals, not Dodgers
Him and Bum would be a really good 1/2 punch in the playoffs, that is for sure.
On a side note, I’m still shocked by the Tulo trade. A lot of players on the Jays seemed to really like him, I wonder how this will effect the team chemistry?
He was so bad defensively, I think I can count at least 4 games where he blew the lead in the 9th inning by not making a routine play, the easiest answer would of been to use goins as a defensive replacement late in the games
Oh, I wasn’t questioning if it is an on the field upgrade. It’s 100% that, but it seemed like players (Bautsita, in particular) were very fond of him. I was just wondering if it may effect their performance.
It could only make it better. I loved Reyes but Tulowitzki is an upgrade offensively and defensively when healthy. He wants to win at all costs which is something that should set a good tone within the clubhouse.
Hawkins seems like an afterthought in the trade, but I think he could actually have a big impact on the younger arms on the pitching. 42 years old in his final season, and he has seen it all. I would think he would be able to share some of his knowledge and experience with Osuna, Sanchez, and so on. He’s a good kind of guy to have in the bullpen I think.
Yeah, I think Hawkins is an overlooked quantity!
Relyng on a lot of intangibles.. All of which can be counteracted by ineffectiveness
Also, please change the voting system. Too many trolls willing to down vote every comment. I have passed over multiple comments because they had a lot of down votes only to later read them and find out they were actually really good. Maybe make a threshold of 5 down votes before they start appearing?
LOL Kinda ironic you are now being down voted by those same trolls.
They are just demonstrating a comment that would display down votes according to my proposed theory. Very nice of them testing it out! š
I agree with your theory no doubt. They have proved you to be correct though.
I only wish we could see who up or down votes.
Yeah, I said that the other day. I think that was a big reason there were hardly any on the previous format since you could see who has down voted or upvoted.
Any voting system encourages comments that aren’t relevant. Voting brings in people just trying to be funny and putting teams/players/GM’s down. It is just really pointless, almost no one here is actually voting on the quality of the comment.
Which, like I explained, is a big retractor from comments that are actually relevant and add something to the subject, because I’ll pass some of those by and not realize they were actually really good comments/ideas. The only time I will down vote is when someone is being directly rude to another commenter for no reason (I have done it once since the new system took over).
Yes, if it lasts, it takes away from quality commenters. It usually gets worse around the Winter Meetings and Trade Deadline when all the homers show up. Hopefully it will clean back up again. But there’s a lot of good conversation missing ever since the switch.
I’m not sure there’s a solution that’s going to please everyone, because up/downvoting was an oft-requested feature when we lacked it for a few weeks. Perhaps we could remove the downvote option?
Not sure. I’m sure the voting is good for getting the most visitors to the site, which is obviously what matters to MLBTR. It’s just not conducive to having quality conversation for the people that enjoy coming here and talking about the ins and outs of the baseball world.
There’s always the option to clarify what the votes represent. From my experience, there are fairly differing opinions.
1) The up/down vote to signify “strongly agree/disagree.”
2) The poster made a statement that was well thought out, or was a lie.
3) Response to trolls/witty or comedic response/clearly being a homer/etc.
I don’t get many votes and I don’t really care so long as there’s no robot that suspends my posting or voting ability based on votes. That said, I think being able to see who is voting would keep things honest so to speak.
I don’t think trolls care. It’s just a handle not like they are putting their name and address out there.
I might vote when my comment would be redundant.
I suggest just displaying who votes which way do we are able to identify trolls and ignore them.
I will add my two cents. I know that on many other forms that use Discus the ādown voteā is used as an automatic censoring device. Enough down votes and that comment is automatically removed. To me that is a ridiculous idea, as in my mind, the only time a comment should be removed is if they violate the established posting protocols. I also know that on some other sites the tally number for down votes is not shown. With the new discussion format here each down vote negates an up vote and unfortunately I think there are some people who get a little thrill out of watching up votes disappear. I donāt think doing away with down votes would be a bad thing at all. If someone has a problem with the intellectual content let them speak their mind.
I do agree with several other posters that I mainly use up votes as a way of saying āI agree with youā without having to post a comment. Personally I rarely use down votes unless I am on a site and someone has intentionally posted a comment that is viral in nature. If itās a comment I disagree with I let them know why with my own post.
I also have a feeling there are several disgruntled āformer postersā who have created new accounts and are using the down votes in a rather childish way to exact revenge.
You’re a regular. When I see you’re comment…I’ll leave a comment if I have something to add… Or I might upvote if I agree and see that another commenter has already made a similar point
I rarely post anymore for two reasons. 1) My healthā¦ Many days the only way I feel comfortable is laying on my side and even when using a voice-recognition program it is not the most agreeable position for posting. 2) As you mentioned notifications. I do not have any notifications sent to an e-mail, I never have and I never will. Without the handy-dandy little notification icon like Discus itās very hard to keep track of who responded and I donāt feel like trying to remember what article I posted on and then scrolling through to find the responses. Actually there is a third reason as wellā¦ Itās much harder to follow as far as who responded to whom unless the poster mentions by name who he is responding to.
I particularly like commenting with regulars because prior knowledge has been gained…I know where you stand on players and teams. It just adds to the conversation
Tim, I like to vote when commenting isn’t necessary or I see someone had already made a similar reply asnI would. It might be good to not have up/down effect the other… But perhaps be separate total
I look at comments and base off whether a person is a regular. I see about the same number of regular commenters. My notifications don’t work…so I’m glad my icon is there to scan for replies.
I feel bad for the serious people that are joining now and have to wade through the tourists. It’s like seeing a.restaurant flooded for St. Patrick’s day
Or better yet, prioritize or highlight comments from people who you have voted UP for in the past. Maybe be even able to hide comments from people who you don’t want to see. Not that I don’t want to see people who have a differing opinion than mine, I learn a lot from people who think differently than I do but there are some people who I would just rather not see their commentary.
Should also return to displaying who votes which way.
Changed from -6 to -1, looks like the good guys might out duel the trolls after all.
HNot sure what voting really entails…but I’ve picked up downvotes for stating actual facts… People don’t like a fact so they downvote it. It’s the season of the newbie troll. That Josh guy the alleged Reds fan was something special.
I kind of wonder if the moderation has been tightened. I’m back to having comments sent to moderatorion inexplicably…I’m seeing clear troll comments posted
I like Susac, but I’m having a lot of trouble seeing a Giants package match any possible deal from the other teams involved. Susac, Beede, and Christian Arroyo wouldn’t be a bad package I suppose, but doesn’t that still get beat by something Texas could probably offer?
Unless the Phillies are gung-ho on getting back a player that can slot right into the major league roster now, I don’t think the Giants win this bidding war. And I’m not going to call Susac old since he’s only 25, but other teams’ packages will involve high upside players that are probably 2-3 years younger than he is. Not as major league ready, but guys that project to make the majors by 23. But there’s certainly value in a MLB-ready catcher.
Interested to see what others think. Which catcher would you say has more long-term value?
Susac at age 25, already in the majors.
Jorge Alfaro at age 22, was in AA, and now out for the season after ankle surgery
Its all in what you desire. Susac is a safe option. He’s a pretty good catcher and the bat might come around on an average level. Alfaro is all potential. He might bust or he might be the next Pudge Rodriguez.
Personally I think the Dodgers and Rangers have made their offers and Amaro is doing everything in his power to get other teams names leaked to try to scare someone into blinking.
@Charles Stevens – Agreed on the deals are what they are at this point, but I think Amaro is waiting for the “Price” shoe to drop. Two pitchers off the market and the no hitter drove up the asking price. ONce david price is off the market or traded, thats whats going to get that top prospect plus more. Amaro and the Phillies FO aren’t going to blink. This deal will go down with 15 minutes left and the final details carrying over the deadline timeframe. I’d be surprised as heck if it was done anytime before then. Hamels ain’t making his start thursday either, they are just going to hold him out.
What happens if Price goes to LA? That would put Philly in a bind and might cause them to hold him until the offseason.
I don’t think the Giants should trade Susac for a number of reasons:
1. The alternative. While I really like Hector Sanchez he sets up too high and that’s why he’s constantly getting foul tips square on the mask. This presents a concussion risk (which he’s had at least twice now).
2. After Sanchez there isn’t much depth so if Sanchez is hurt, The Giants are likely going to have two hitting spots in the lineup that are very weak (pitcher and unknown catcher)
3. I’m not sure how long Posey will catch, I know they say there are no plans to move his position but you can’t ignore the fact that his numbers are CRAZY good when he’s playing 1B.
4. Belt is a FA in 2018 but he’s never really “broken out” as expected. I kind of like Posey and Susac in the lineup more than Posey/Belt and Susac hits well even with such limited playing time, I do wonder what he would do with more playing time?
5. Susac rates in the TOP 5 catchers for framing borderline pitchers! That means he and Posey (who also rates in the top 5) get a lot more corner strikes that 55 other catchers don’t (counting 2 catchers on every team).
Anyway, I really hope The Giants keep Susac but that’s me being selfish. Susac would probably break out even more if he got a chance to play every day for another team.
See, this thread demonstrates the trolls perfectly. They just hide and down vote without any input. No one has commented and said they disagree with what I have said and given a reason why, yet there have been a lot of down votes from those “trolls”. Perfect example of the problem these boards are experiencing.
There’s also been some pretty bad comments lately. I’m not sure if they’re not moderating the comments anymore or what.
Idk a lot of the trade proposals have given me a chuckle. Miss the old disqus commenting system though.
I’m not talking about trade proposals. I’m talking about things that shouldn’t be on a baseball site. Go read through the Tulo trade thread.
Yeah, I have seen some pointlessly mean/degrading/etc. ones, as well. There was one comment from my account that made a joke of the Cardinals front office fiasco with the Astros, but that post was made by my best friend who is a Cubs fan and thought it would be funny to make that post when he has my phone. That is an example of a post that adds nothing to the discussion and should be taken down.
Meh. At least that is baseball related. But that is the type of comments any voting system encourages.
Oh, well I haven’t noticed any completely unrelated to baseball. Lol. So that was my best example.
I’ve noticed a slough that have been disparaging toward other commenters and baseball personnel
I think they switched moderator on….I’m having comments sent there more frequently like before…and they aren’t trolling in anyway…they end up posted…but must trigger by word as before
Just upvoted you
Folks- This trade rumor needs updating. Ken Rosenthal just tweeted that this news was posted under a fake account with his name. There is no evidence that Hamels to the Giants is happening.
At 8:35am Rosenthal debunked a fake Hamels to Giants trade report, I guess, but at 8:57am he legitimately tweeted that the Giants are pushing for him.
Don’t miss understand me, I highly doubt the Giants get Hamels even though I would love it if they did but… I recently heard on MLB Network about a trade last year I believe being leaked on a fake twitter account and a couple days later that trade actually happened.
I like candy corn
This is a terrible trade suggestion from a Phillies fan’s perspective
Candy corn and a chocolate bar to be named later.
I think Cole Hamels for the Giants will benefit both the GIants and Hamels. 1 he’s from California 2. he’s pitching in an awesome pitchers park and 3. the Giants will be top contenders with him in a rotation with MadBum.
But how does this benefit the Phillies?
Out of all the teams I would like to see Hamels pitch for, the Giants would top that list. The only problem is the lack of promising prospects that would come back to the phillies.
most knew the Giants didn’t have enough good prospects.
Honestly just think they’re playing in the media. Phillies leak strong Giants interest… Dodgers leAK “LOL… yea right. Their farm is bad”
I wouldn’t count out any team trying to make the playoffs, including the Giants… yea the Dodgers have two potential studs in the farm but we know they aren’t trading them for Hamels. Now it’s a debate about if another teams farm is comparable to the rest of LA’s farm, it will come down to what positions/players philly wants more.
Even if the Dodgers won’t include Seager or Urias they can still put together a better package than the Giants
That may be true if only looking at the #’s but what if Philly doesn’t need the position of said better package (i.e. SP & OF) and team B (Giants, Astros, who cares who) comes along with a slightly less package but with all positions they need (i.e. SP, C, & SS)… what offer do they take?
Better package is up to the teams thought process and not everyone goes purely off who has the better prospect.
I get that the giants don’t have prospects like Urias and Seager, but la isn’t trading them. Are sf’s prospects that much worse than la’s next tier of prospects? probably not. I’m not sure about Texas, but why they’d want to trade for him is still beyond me. They aren’t going anywhere this year and probably won’t be able to compete with the Angels and Astros for years to come. Their only shot would be getting the second wild card spot but even then, and Hamels won’t be enough to do that.
Keep in mind they get Darvish and profar back
good point about Darvish
The only way I see the Giants making this deal work. Send Brandon Belt,1-2 top prospects, and take Ryan Howard’s contract. They’d have to sell the Phillies that Belt is a better hitter than his numbers indicate. I believe he is in the top 10 in baseball for hard hit balls this season, so that could be something. But, in all likelihood, I doubt the Giants want to give up on Belt, 1-2 of their few top prospects, or take Ryan Howard.
Belt would put up some great numbers playing his home games at Citizen’s Bank Park. AT&T is death to left-handed power hitters not named Barry Bonds, but Belt has a great approach at the plate and can hit for power to all fields.
Doubt the Phillies have much interest in anyone who is set to be a free agent before like 2021.
Yes, the Giants lack the “prospects” to compare to LA or Texas, but, as has been pointed out, Texas and LA don’t seem to be willing to part with their premium prospects right now.
Besides, Andrew Susac could be a guy who headlines a deal. I think of him like a Nick Franklin last year… not a top prospect, but a guy who had a fairly solid amount of MLB experience. Susac could start at catcher for a handful of teams.
You don’t have to have a Corey Seager to get Cole Hamels.
Now that Iwakuma is on the trade block, he seems like an obvious place for the Giants to go.
A lot of people saying the Giants don’t have the prospects to drive up the price. But you all are missing something. Perhaps the Giants are willing to take back one of the contracts the Phils want to drop. One would think that the Phils would take Kyle Crick and some random prospect if the Giants would take back Howard.