2:32pm: One executive tells Rosenthal that he does not expect a Carrasco trade (Twitter link).
2:12pm: The Dodgers are one of many to discuss Carrasco with the Tribe, tweets Jon Heyman of CBS Sports.
1:03pm: Boston’s efforts are focused on Carrasco or Tyson Ross of the Padres, tweets Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com. Outfielder Jackie Bradley, Jr. could go in a deal.
7:36am: The Cubs are “among [the] teams engaged in ongoing dialogue” with the Indians about starting pitcher Carlos Carrasco, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The Red Sox are in the market for controllable pitching, tweets ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick, and they have also talked to the Indians about Carrasco. Rosenthal says teams continue to call the Indians and make offers on the 28-year-old, who pitched a complete game last night. Crasnick says the Tribe has been involved with a large number of teams on Carrasco.
Since rejoining the Indians’ rotation on August 10th of last year, Carrasco has been a new man, with a 3.07 ERA, 10.0 K/9, 1.7 BB/9, and 0.64 HR/9 in 196 1/3 innings. The Indians deftly signed him to a four-year extension in April, which could run through 2020 if both club options are exercised. As he’s guaranteed only about $21MM through 2018, Carrasco is a very valuable commodity.
Prior to acquiring David Price, the Blue Jays were “close to a deal that fell apart near the finish line” for Carrasco, according to Shi Davidi of Sportsnet.ca. According to Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun, the Jays offered Daniel Norris, Jeff Hoffman, and Dalton Pompey for Carrasco. Interest will presumably be strong from teams looking for more than a rental starting pitcher, but not every team could spare the young players needed to pull off a deal.
This would be a great get for the Cubs. Not sure who they’d be sending to Cleveland. The Cubs positions of strength are a lot of the same as the Indians. A package led by McKinney?
I guess it all comes down to how much of an incentive the Indians have to move him. Apparently they declined the Blue Jays’ offer (according to the Toronto Sun I think) of Norris, Hoffman, and Pompey, which seems like a good one. I think they’ll be trying to get whatever club to take on one of their bad contracts too (Bourn’s or Swisher’s). Regardless, he would be a great get by the Cubs, and I hope my Red Sox are in on him.
Good call on the Red Sox haha that would be a great add. What do you think it would cost them?
I honestly think the return will be something similar to Hamels’ if a deal gets done, with the prospects being position players and maybe a contract being eaten by the team getting Carrasco.
Agree. Bourn and/or Swisher. I see it similar to the Dodgers/Marlins/Braves deal where they take on salary. I don’t think they’ll deal him without getting quality in return. They’re looking to be in the hunt next year in the Central.
That’s the only way this gets done I think. I’d take on Bourn’s contract if it meant getting Carrasco while not having to give up a package similar to the offer you referenced. Not sure the Cubs would want to top that or really can without losing their top pitching prospects.
I think that Bourne could make a lot of sense for the Cubs with Fowler being a free agent after this year. Take on Bourne’s contract and Carrasco and move 4 or 5 pieces from their system like C.J. Edwards, Albert Almora, etc.
The Cubs top pitching prospects? Lol that’s the least of my concern in a deal as a cubs fan…because we don’t have that many good ones and zero great ones. My guess is they’re going to want Baez, McKinney, Volgulbach or something for Carrasco and Bourne. I’d probably pull the trigger on it from both sides too.
they have nick swishers contract we can eat too 😉
If the Indians actually rejected that package, I’m nit sure I can see Carrasco moving. That would be a very strong return. Perhaps the Indians didn’t like the reports on Hoffman or something.
Carrasco is very cheap which makes him very valuable. He only makes 19M from 16-18 and two options at 9M and 9.5M after that. Granted he doesn’t look like an ace, but his xFIP is in line with what it was last year.
They also have enough pitching, so it might make sense for them turning it down. They will want position prospects in a trade. The Red Sox and Cubs have those.
In terms of pure prospect power, Norris & Hoffman is pretty much as good as it gets. A top-20 left-handed starter and a right-handed power pitcher with #1-overall type stuff. That’ll get you almost any available player, and you’d think if the Indians wanted hitters they could still take the best available package and then flip Norris/Hoffman to the Cubs or Dodgers.
norris has taken a step back this year and hoffman isn’t a year removed from tommy john. in terms of trade value a package of mckinney and edwards its pretty similar.
Think they probably need to move a bad contract as well and the Jays just couldn’t take one.
I agree with this completely. The Cubs main trade pieces are middle infielders, and that’s perhaps the greatest area of strength for the Indians with Kipnis and Lindor. That’s why I don’t see this as a great possibility. But if a move did happen, then my guess is it would include Edwards and McKinney. Doubtful that you get a cost-controlled player for anything less than two top-50 type prospects (Note: Edwards varies between 38th and 66th, which is why I said “top-50 type.”)
Edwards will move down the lists (meaning not valued as highly) just because the Cubs have put him in relief to limit his innings, but he seems to be doing pretty well.
Yea, we’re already seeing a bit of a drop w/ Edwards in the rankings. He started the year as the 38th ranked prospect by Baseball America, and he was held off the mid-season top-50 list. But MLB.com still had him rated 66th in their mid-season report. So there’s still a lot of value there.
Additionally, he’s an interesting case because his value is mostly determined by how other clubs view him. The Cubs clearly view him as a back-end of the bullpen guy. But other teams might still view him as a starter. There’s no question about his stuff – it has TOR potential. The issue is related to perceived concerns over his durability due to size. That might not concern other teams as much it does the Cubs. After all, he’s never had any serious arm injuries, and considerably smaller pitchers have held up just fine at the big level.
the cubs dont view him as a back of the bullpen guy necessarily. they are limiting his innings as he has roughly matched how many he threw last year. wouldnt surprise me if he starts a few games now.
Whether the Indians need them or not, you can bet Castro’s and Baez’s names have been discussed.
Come on Pirates! Get involved!
Being a Pirates fan too I would absolutely love this But i dont see it happening realistically, especiall if the rumors are true and thats what the Indians turned down from the Jays
Big Indians and Cubs fan here. The Tribe is looking to contend next year with their young pitching staff and young guys like Gomes and Kipnis, but looking to fill in offensive holes, namely in the OF. I don’t see them making a deal for a guy who won’t be playing in the bigs next year, so as much as I like McKinney, I’m not sure that’s enough to get it done. I know it’s probably unrealistic, but I’m certain they’d be asking about Schwarber, which may be why he’s been playing LF a bit lately. Move him to LF and put Brantley back in CF. For a cheap, controllable young starter who is on the cusp of really turning into a top flight starter, the price will be very, very high. I’d also think that taking on Bourn and/or Swisher’s contract would be part of this deal.
Just my thought. I’m a bit surprised they are working on moving CC as much as I’ve read. He’s putting it together and is going to be a fantastic starter. I’d rather have them deal Salazar.
I can’t think of any trade right not that includes Schwarber. The Cubs are winning. He is playing LF because they need his bat badly, but don’t want to risk him playing catcher. At this point Schwarber is about as untouchable as Bryant to Cubs fans. The front office might be less bullish due to his defense, but honestly he’s looked fine behind the plate. His offense more than makes up for Ross’ defense IMO.
How long is Coughlan signed for? I think he’s under valued but the Indians GM knows his stuff. I’d try and convince Theo he should be a “throw in” in this deal, and he helps with the ML team next year.
Coghlan has provided quite a bit of value given his salary and playing time. He is basically their starting LF vs right handers. He started over Soler in RF the other day as well. He’s only controlled through next season, but I wouldn’t put it past Theo to give him a 2 year deal instead of arbitration this offseason. If the Cubs were out of contention Coghlan would actually be a player other contender would be looking to trade for. Depending on how you view advanced defensive metrics. I think it’s a bit hazy in terms of outfield defense. For instance last year you’d think he was worthless since he put up a bWAR near 0, but that was mostly due to his defense taking all of his offensive value away. His fWAR probably paints a more realistic picture. 2+ fWAR last year and already 2+ this season.
No way Cubs include Schwarber. If they wouldn’t let him go for Hamels, I doubt they let him go for Carrasco, especially if the Tribe want to have the Cubs take on one of their bad contracts. I am not thinking they are very good trade partners because you are right, Indians would be looking for an OF and Cubs don’t really have anyone in the minors who is on the cusp of hitting the bigs.
Agreed. I’d be stunned if a deal gets done, and even more so if it gets done and the Indians don’t get a close to MLB ready guy.
I agree on Schwarber being untouchable as well, but the Tribe and Phillies are in very different places. The Tribe has a 2-4 year window with their young talent. Getting guys in A or AA for a MLB starter under team control for the next 4 years doesn’t make sense from their angle.
As long as it’s not a package with Baez. I’m not sold on him long-term. Too big of a hole in his swing, and they also don’t need Castro. I don’t want him on the Tribe, that’s for sure.
Of course that means they’ll get them both! ; )
Yea, Cubs had a small window where Castro was valuable. He will have to turn it around to have any trade value. Baez will have to prove himself in the MLB before he becomes a legit trade piece. He tears up the minors but hasn’t done well in the majors, which MLB teams paid attention to. After that, with the pieces that Cubs are for sure keeping (Bryant, Soler, Schwarber, Russell) they don’t have that main headlining piece that Could land a guy like Carassco, Hamels, etc. They need to go for a guy like Cashner or Ross that may not take a guy like that, but a few pretty good pieces to help a team like the Pads rebuild a bit after their disastrous spending spree. Cubs should be able to snag one of the top FA (or at least have the money to) and the rest of their rotation is shored up after that if they can get someone via trade today. I could also see them standing pat and getting Shark via FA next year as well. he has lost some value with pitching rather poorly after being traded from the Cubs last year.
I still think Castro can be a solid player, but his head is getting in the way. He takes his offensive struggles out onto the field with him. With his frame, I could see him being a 3B in the future that could be a run producer, but he’s gotta get out of his own way in order for that to happen.
Baez has tremendous talent, but until he controls his swing, MLB pitchers are going to own him. Even guys like Bryant, Russell and Schwarber aren’t immune to that breaking ball down and away. They all need to lay off that pitch, Russell especially. He’s going to special, but he’s still young and a little rough around the edges. Schwarber’s also getting the book written on him. Did you see how the Brewers shifted on him last night? He’s gotta put some balls in play to left so that teams don’t start stacking their infielders. He’s a dead pull hitter right now.
Fun stuff. Nice to see the Cubs with talent. I also think they’ll be a big player for a top starter in the off-season. Will be interesting to see if they try to keep Fowler as well. I’d think they’d have to, they don’t have anyone ready to leadoff and play CF.
I get not wanting Castro, but happy to hear you don’t want Baez haha. His ceiling is still massive and I’m praying the Cubs can avoid including him somehow.
His ceiling is as massive as the hole in his swing. He will either be a superstar or a complete bust. Don’t think there’s a middle ground for him. I hope he does evolve into the player the Cubs drafted, it would be another cog in the Cubs offense going forward. I’m just not sold that he’s going to be able to cut down his swing against MLB pitching.
Would the Cubs consider offering up Soler in a deal? Outfield then of Schwarber, Bourne, Fowler and Coghlan / Denorfia to finish off this year. They could bat Bourne 9th and have 2 fast guys back to back with Fowler leading off.
CF Fowler
LF Schwarber
3B Bryant
1B Rizzo
2B Baez
C Montero
SS Russell
Pitcher
RF Bourne
Coghlan starts everyday of the week over Bourn. I think RF/LF becomes a platoon of Schwarber/Coghlan and Denorfia/Soler.
Why are the Redsox purusing anything? They are in last place they should be selling…. I dont get it.
To get better next year. Right now is a time to trade for pieces and an opportunity to get a guy like Carrasco is something they will try to do.
Because they are trying to get young controllable players for the future. They can do that all while trying to move their own expiring contracts cant they?
They just want to look like they’re trying without any real desire to make a move. Clev will ask for one of their top six prospects only to be told they’re all untouchable. Then if Clev doesn’t hang up, but rather mkes a counter with other prospects they’ll have Boston say “oopd. They’re untouchable too.”
That’s pretty ridiculous.
I don’t know who else the Jays have left to trade besides Pompey after Hoffman, Castro & Norris all got sent out. Sanchez & Osuna are already helping out the major league team, so would be dumb to trade them.
Maybe the Jays take on Bourn’s contract, and put him in CF, which lessens the return from Cleveland would be my only guess??
Even then the Jays would have to empty their farm starting with Pompey. Maybe if they took on Bourn and Swishers’ contract? But in the end I just don’t see it working for the Jays. I think someone like Leake would have been a better target considering AA is going all in, possibly with his job on the line.
Where would they play Swisher?? They already have a backlog at 1b/DH anyways with Justin Smoak, Edwin Encarnacion, Chris Collabello and then Dionner Navarro & Danny Valencia backing up. I know the magic carpet ride for Collabello will likely end soon, but as of now Smoak, EE & Collabello are hitting better then Swisher. At least with Bourn, even though he isn’t hitting as well as Pillar, Pillar is a backup, and there isn’t a backlog at the CF position.
Maybe Smoak goes to Cleveland, and AA ships EE out for another pitcher?? Still seems like a dumb move though, even though they could use another starter.
Swisher is on the bench. He is only in the deal to get Carrasco. You can try to salvage value from him by giving him some at bats in LF/RF and 1B/DH to give guys some rest, but that is it really. It’s a salary dump and one that nearly any GM would not take. I wouldn’t put it past AA though.
Bourn could be a fit, either in LF or taking Carrera’s 4th OF/PR/Defensive Replacement role, so I guess that’s a possibility. As Frank said though, the Jays would likely still need to send Pompey plus-plus to get the deal done. As much as I’d like to see Carrasco in Toronto, I imagine they will be outbid at this point.
So, dangling Bauer was the same as Atlanta putting out a call on Teheran: a lure to pitching needy teams to get them on line, then rejecting their approach but, adding, “hey, we aren’t keen on dealing Trev, but we have this other guy, maybe a bit lower on the totem, but…”.
I’d love to see the Pirates get in on this too and take Swisher back in the deal too…there is the 1B/OF option we need in addition to a solid rotation upgrade.
Scratching my Head!
Why would the Indians want to trade a good pitcher, a good teammate, and very popular with the fans?
Same here. Problem is they can’t get better through free agency, and they need to fix their offense. Only way to do that is to deal from a strength. The opportunity to shed a bad contract or two has to be an incentive as well. If the Cubs/Dodgers are sniffing, you know they are telling Cleveland they are willing to take a bad contract to get the deal done. If they could get rid of both Swisher and Bourn’s contract, it would be a very hard deal not to want to make.
I wonder if the Yankees would also take phillips if they insist on not giving up their top 4 prospects. Taking that contract off of Cincy’s books would help them reboot faster and allow the yankees to give up lower level prospects. Phillips could help them now with close to Gold Glove defense and can still hit a bit. Although the next few years he should continue to decline.
I don’t know much about Cleveland. But hear Carrasco is good. Would he be their # 3 if the trade gets done. Jake had a bit of a bad frat few innings but I blame those socks. Once he got into a groove he only gave up those two runs. The guy talking about the shift last night with Schwarber. He hit a laser right over the shift last night in that 9th inning.
Where are all the Cubs fans that were arguing with me when I said we should’ve traded Castro for Carrasco earlier?
In my mind, at this point, it’ll have to be a 3-team trade if the Cubbies are going to get him. Something along the lines of Carrasco and Swisher to the Cubs, Castro to the Indians, Henricks and Lake to a 3rd team, and more prospects to the Indians from the 3rd team. Not sure if anyone is willing to jump on that though…
Gives the Cubs the SP they need, Indians can move Castro to 3B and use Urshela as trade bait in the offseason to get a right-handed bat (Billy Butler?), bullpen help, or a 4th starter, and the mystery 3rd team gets two exciting younger players with upside and MLB experience.
Castro to the Indians? They have Lindor at SS and Kipnis at 2B. Castro’s not good enough right offensively now to be a DH. It could pay off in the future if Castro rights himself, but I’m not buying it now.
And I somehow missed your last paragraph, my apologies. I guess he could move to 3B, but I that’s for the Indians FO to decide.
Right. I think 3B would be his more natural position… assuming he can still develop something resembling power.
The Indians FO isn’t that dumb. Castro doesn’t have the bat to play 3rd. Baez however, most certainly does.
Yes. I guess I forgot to mention this is all a pipe dream. I was more emphasizing that at this point a team, any team would have to give up MLB talent, eat salary, and move prospects to get CC.
Kyle Hendricks? Then the Cubs need a 5th starter again lol.
You don’t need a 5th starter in the playoffs. And again it’s about the theory not the actually pieces.
By “prospects” I’m assuming that you mean Schwarber + McKinney + 2 other prospects
Castro has nowhere near enough trade value to be the centerpiece of a Carrasco deal
I’m a Cubs fan living in Cleveland. I’ve watched “cookie monster” several times. He’s not going to fetch Schwarber and I don’t think the Indians will go for McKinnley. I might be way off base but I think Cles FO might be more interested in the salary dump.
If Cleveland rejected Norris, Pompey and Hoffman then I don’t see Carrasco being dealt
If they traded Carrasco and only ended up getting Castro, I’d drive to Cleveland tonight to burn down their GM’s office.
It’d be like trading CC Sabathia for Matt LaPorta and a player to be named later, comical at best. (And yes, I know, Michael Brantley worked out pretty well).
I think the deal would have been fine *if* LaPorta would have been the guy everyone thought he’d be. Unfortunately….
That said, can’t complain with Brantley, who has turned into a really nice player, bordering on a star. Certainly has become the face of the franchise.
Hey Tim, How busy is MLBtraderumors today??
bourn, swisher, corrasco for castro, mckinney, edwards + 10 mil. pays for castro through next year. 2 excellent prospects, and the indians save roughly 40 mil in future salary of bourn and swisher + whatever carrasco’s is.
The Red Sox?! LOL…good one. Owners should put a freeze on all moves until current GM is replaced. Why let him destroy the team more than he already has? In this particular case, the freeze should extend to ownership themselves as they are a big part of the problem.
The Red Sox are focused on Carrasco OR Ross? Hopefully they are focused on both of them. They both would be great additions. Carrasco especially.
If The trade involves Castro I and all cubs fans are probably all for it.
Why would the Indians make that trade though ? They don’t need a poor defensive shortstop. They have Lindor, would make no sense at all. You need to give something good to get something good.
Why would Padres or Indians WANT Bradley?
I was thinking same thing, just another example of Boston over valuing their players hah. Bradley is more than likely a bust.
JBJ is one of the best defensive center fielders in the game, and he also has been hitting in AAA. The Sox never gave him a real chance. He is going to have an amazing career.
That may be true but Indians need a right handed power hitter more than anything. No disrespect to JBJ, I just don’t see the Indians trading CC for him.
Also triple A numbers mean nothing to me, he still did not proved he can hit at the major league level. CC is a proven starter with a great contract.
Also triple A numbers mean nothing to me, he still did not proved he can hit at the major league level. CC is a proven starter with a great contract.
This season in AAA he hit .305/ .382 /.472.
This due to him changing his swing, making it more compact and bringing down his strikeout to walk ratio from to 2.12x as many Ks as BB to 1.47x (previous AAA stint to most recent one)
Again we can talk triple A numbers all day. Does not mean he can do it at the major league level. Not a proven ML player, it just doesn’t make sense for the Cleveland prospective .
What a surprise that all the Sox have done is trade Shane Victorino, SMH. As constituted, next year is a definite that they will finish in last place for the 4th time in 5 seasons