The Mets’ pursuit of a long-term answer at shortstop has been well-documented, and one of their latest endeavors was to explore the possibility of an intra-division swap that would bring Andrelton Simmons from Atlanta to Queens, reports ESPN’s Buster Olney (via Twitter). However, Olney hears that talks went nowhere, as the Braves placed such a high asking price on Simmons that it was “basically unreachable.”
That Simmons would come with an exorbitant asking price should be expected, as he is the game’s premier defender at shortstop (if not the game’s premier defender, period) and brings a competent bat to the table as well as a highly affordable contract. Over the past three seasons, Simmons leads not only all shortstops, but all qualified position players in both Defensive Runs Saved and Ultimate Zone Rating. It’s not even close when it comes to DRS, as his +86 mark dwarfs the 61 runs credited to the also-excellent Nolan Arenado.
That elite glove is paired with a bat that has produced a .254/.303/.366 line. That’s hardly elite production, but it’s also weighed down by what looks to be a somewhat fluky down season in 2014. Simmons doesn’t walk much (6.1 percent in his career), but he also rarely strikes out (9.1 percent) and has a bit of pop in his bat, as evidenced by a 17-homer campaign back in 2013.
On top of that, Simmons is controlled through the 2020 season for a very reasonable total of about $54.1MM. He’s still owed roughly $1.1MM in 2015 in addition to annual salaries of $6MM, $8MM, $11MM, $13MM and $15MM over the life of the deal, which will conclude after his age-30 season. Fangraphs’ Dave Cameron recently placed Simmons 30th when ranking the Top 50 players in the game in terms of trade value. As he notes, Simmons hasn’t been much of a hitter yet, but plenty of teams would be happy to make the bet that his bat will improve before his glove declines, adding that his elite defense creates a very high floor.
The Mets have been oft-connected to shortstops over the past 18 months, with names such as Troy Tulowitzki, Starlin Castro and Javier Baez representing just a few of the players to be connected to GM Sandy Alderson’s club. They’re known to be on the hunt for some offensive improvements as well, though the acquisition of Juan Uribe and Kelly Johnson and the recent promotion of Michael Conforto have lessened those needs, to some extent.
Asking about Simmons sounds like a waste of time. Doing your homework is great, but there’s only 4 days left. Get on the stick Mets, or watch the playoffs from home.
I think making the playoffs for them this year would be great, but not mandatory. They still have a great young core that’ll produce for years to come. They shouldn’t try to rush things. They’re similar to the Cubs- They’re good, but not good enough to contend with the higher up teams.
My point is, they shouldn’t be rushing to trade for an All-Star SS, at least not yet.
They aren’t many quality SS available anyway, the Mets might as well check in on Simmons.
So. . .you’re being negative on the fact that they’re poking around and just doing some due diligence? Weird. I suppose there’s some people you can’t please any of the time.
Poking around should be done by now. You should have an idea of who’s available and who isn’t. Asking on a guy like this – where the deal doesn’t make sense for the Braves unless the Mets overpay – is just a symptom of the Mets’ lack of confidence in their own ability to evaluate talent.
There are guys on the table at prices they can afford, now. Decisions should be happening now. They should know who they want, who they’re willing to afford, what they can get, and what it will get them.
They call it ‘working a deal’ because work is involved. That work should be done. Now you close the deal, run the physicals, and sell it to the fans.
I wonder if Chris Davis could be a fit for the Mets. Could be had at a very reasonable price. Wieters could also be a possibility.
I wouldn’t mind trading O’Day, Davis, and possibly consider throwing in JJ Hardy
As out of the box that may be, I would consider it.
Although, O’Day and Davis would be more practical
O’day is the one free agent I would like to keep. He seems to like Baltimore and his wife works in DC so there may be motivation to get a deal done. Other than that I would like to move Davis, Wieters, Chen, Hunter, Matusz, and Norris (if possible). Trading JJ would be interesting but I don’t see it happening due to his production and number of dollars left on his deal. He is worth more to the O’s than what he would command in a trade.
Where in the world would Duda play then? The one productive hitter the Mets have
Davis has been playing a serviceable outfield.
You know what it is, NYM asking around about Wheeler, knowing that ATL FO was over-the-moon for him when he was drafted by SF and how ATL isn’t scared away by TJ survivors, why not build a package and go after the best defensive player in the game? As a Braves fan, I respect that they’re looking for the best.
Exactly… and it was a matter of a phone call. “What would it take to get Andrelton?” “Your entire starting rotation…” “Okay, thanks, bye!”
As a Braves fan I know how amazing Simba is at Defense…but its the exact opposite on offense. He thinks he is a 25 hr guy. If he would settle and just try to hit close to 300, he could be a top 25 player in baseball. I guess what im saying is I would think long and hard about giving him up if the Mets were willing to do Syndeagard, or Matz, or Conforto. Hell maybe even Cacchini, and Montero
“Exact opposite on offense” I think is a little bit much. No, he’s not amazing, but he’s still quite young and already new hitting coach Kevin Seitzer is making strides with him. He’s always been a contact hitter, unlike much of the teams before 2015, and never has really had his own spot in the lineup (thanks to Fredi’s Ever-Changing Lineup Merry-Go-Round). With 3B being a hole for us, we need to have someone like Simba who is basically covering much of 3B’s territory. We do have some potential replacements (Peraza, Albies both started out as SS, moved to 2B or CF), but you don’t give up on him, especially as he’s locked into place for the next half-decade. Cornerstones needs to be Freeman/Simba as position players, then go from there.
A contact hitter? Andrelton Simmons?
This year, yes. He’s struck 27x in 383 PA, which ranks as 35th in MLB for most strikeouts by qualifying SS. MLB leader (by SS) is Ian Desmond with 110 K in 3 more PA than Simmons.
Big difference between “contact hitter” and “not striking out.” When you say “contact hitter” you usually mean a guy who squares the ball a lot, not flies out weakly.
Yeah … that definition on contact hitter needs to be looked at. If all you are hoping for is no strikeouts, infield pop-ups and lazy ground balls then I could be considered a contact hitter.
If you are talking about someone who routinely makes solid contact (Wade Boggs/Tony Gwynn) then Simmons has a long, long way to go.
His batted ball profile is largely the same as it has been since 2012 (well … to be honest 2012 was his peak performance). He’s approximately 20% under league average offensively. And while his defense remains in a league of it’s own, it has to. His offensive makeup is just so poor.
Dave ranked him high on the expectation that teams are willing to gamble quite a bit on Simmons turning into Ozzie offensively. He certainly could do that. Or he could remain a poor hitting SS with an amazing glove. He certainly has some value (given his contract) but I don’t see through the roof value.
One last note – want a good comp – look at the young version of Andrus. Not quite as good with the glove (but certainly elite). Much better baserunner and overall better batter profile. From age 20 to 24 he averaged close to 13 runs saved defensively. In the last year and a half that dropped down to league average. Even though his bat wasn’t great, his speed and defense made him a huge asset. Now … he’s an albatross. Speed and defense is league average and his bat is still meh. And he’s only 26 years old. Nobody wants the guy and there are some serious questions about whether he should be a starting SS in baseball right now.
Cecchini and Montero for Simmons? That would be an absolute disaster for the Braves. Now if the Mets offered Thor, that’s another story. But I would be shocked if they did.
EVERYONE in baseball would be shocked if they offered Thor for him. Unfortunately for Montero he killed his value w. his slower than molasses rehab stint. I think his upside is a #3, though I can see him in the BP if/when the Mets make a playoff run. Cecchini is on the rise, but I agree that those two aren’t nearly enough to get a play of Simmons’ caliber.
Wheeler and Conforto bruh
While the chances of the Braves trading Simmons are low it worth keeping a eye on and it could very well happen should the Mets become desperate enough.
The asking price is most likely something like Conforto & either deGrom, Syndergaard or Harvey.
Which seem reasonable considering that the Braves don’t have a SS who could replace Simmons.
Depth doesn’t matter when you’re looking to deal. The Phillies haven’t had depth in their rotation for the entire season, to the point where Kevin Corriea, Sean O’Sullivan and Jerome Williams all made significant amount of starts, but yet they’re still willing to trade Hamels and Harang.
Not similar situations at all. If you are considering trading a pre-arby player at a premium position like shortstop, you better have a replacement you like equally well ready to take his spot. Which is why the Brewers would deal Segura. Their top prospect with an higher ceiling than Segura is a shortstop now at AA.
2 of their top 5 prospects (depending on what publication you’re looking at) Peraza and Albies both started out at SS before being moved to other positions (2B/CF; 2B).
ps. deGrom has the best ERA in all of baseball for July ’14 to July ’15…so he’s out. Syn and Harvey are stud flame throwers who are cost controlled. I can see Wheeler + Nimmo + low A guy as a fair deal for Simmons.
Probably Syndergaard, Get a Shortstop for Decade !
If the Mets FO trade Thor for Simmons and not Tulo, they deserve all the boos they get.
And they would be out of their mind to offer that package for Simmons. I’ll take any of those three pitchers over Simmons by themselves. And I’m not a Met’s fan either.
I don’t think “desperate” is going to happen this year because the Mets have a strong core of talent signed for the next 3-5+ yrs. I could see Wheeler + Rosario + Tejada. Tejada is a serviceable/avg SS who can play ’16 until Rosario is ready. I think that is a fair deal, though I’m not sure ATL is looking for fair (nor should they be because they have no reason to move Simmons).
If the Mets were to offer Wheeler/Matz+Confronto for Simmons, I’m sure the Braves would accept…
Very very doubtful.
it is doubtful, but if offered- we accept
If they don’t we should run them out of town. That would be a great deal for the Braves.
What a huge mistake by Braves leadership. IDK what we asked for, but Simmons needs to be traded. He is the most overrated SS oin MLB. Please try to make a deal with NYMets. Take any one of Wheeler, Thor or Degrom plus Matz and Conforto. Or Matz, Conforto and D’arnaud.
Yeah….that aint happening.
what did you have in mind if anything?
The last thing the Mets need is another 1 dimensional player.
Degrom is the best pitcher on their team, I wouldn’t part with him unless its for Mike Trout, which obviously won’t happen.
Not happening!!!!!
Mets Pitchers are alreadyOne pitch from being Forgotten, Keep thinking Tommy John ,The Nets Have already have had TWO Pitchers go down in three Years , none of these Pitchers will be around in 7/8 years , Simmons will !
The Brooklyn Nets have had two pitchers go down? What are they doing signing baseball players?!
If we could get Degrom straight up…it would have been done by now much less with Matz and Conforto added.
I’m sorry that defense is overrated. It’s just 1/2 of the game. Compare Simmons’ first 4 seasons with Ozzie Smith’s first 4 seasons and see who is better.
Ozzie Smith – WAR (first 4 seasons): 3.2, 1.6, 5, 1 = 10.8
Andrelton Simmons – WAR (first 4 seasons; 1/2 way through 2015): 2.9, 7, 3.3, 2.8 = 16
Umm……..yeah, the Mets aren’t offering that. if they were, Simmons would already be in NY.
Lol…DeGrom + Matz + Conforto is Mike Trout territory. That trade would even be rejected in a video game.
I don’t know where to begin in response to that, but thank the baby jesus you’re not in charge. He’s far from the most overrated SS in the game. He’s by far the BEST SS in the game.
I’m so glad you don’t work for the Braves.
Only if you ignore everything except defense. Simmons is Brendan Ryan with (admittedly a lot) more range. At least right now. He could improve.
So, you desperately want Simmons moved, but your asking price is one of Wheeler/Syndergaard/deGrom, plus Matz AND Conforto? Wow. Which one is it, is he the most overrated SS in baseball or is he someone who would command three top-tier prospects (or, in the case of deGrom, one of the best starters in the NL)?
David K GOTTS wheeler/matz & confronto for a guy that can’t hit his weight
You Braves fan are nuts … Yeah will give you Harvey – matz – Thor – DeGrom & throw in conforto for him …. WAKE UP PEOPLE
Offense and defense are equally important. How is this any different than signing a guy like Michael Cuddyer who can rake when healthy and productive, but should probably play 1B or DH? Simmons give you 3-4 WAR alone for defense, and anything he does with the bat is just gravy.
No, we’re not. We’re just not willing to get rid of the best defensive player in baseball for a scrub. You want the best, you need to be willing to deal.
Front office knows that they’d take a ton of heat on trading Simmons – and without 2-3 top 5 talents coming back, it would be a bad PR move.
If he is the “best defensive player in baseball” it’s not by a huge amount. There are several that are close. Defense is important, but it is deceptive because often a replacement can play pretty decently with the glove. That’s not true for a star-level offensive SS.
The Braves need bats not pitching they are on pace to look like the mets now in 2-3 years.
If we had a rotation that looked like NYM’s now, I’d take it. Now they can invest international picks/draft picks/trades into developing more positional prospects – which they’re already doing by recent Cuban signings – and fill-in some holes with decent free agent contracts, as we’ve freed up enough money with no more Kimbrel, Upton, etc.
Ozzie Smith – WAR (first 4 seasons): 3.2, 1.6, 5, 1 = 10.8
Andrelton Simmons – WAR (first 4 seasons; 1/2 way through 2015): 2.9, 7, 3.3, 2.8 = 16
Andrelton should be 6 WAR points better than Ozzie – and Andrelton is almost a year younger than Ozzie at the same points in their career. Now, how much is Andrelton Simmons worth? And if you think defensive WAR is any closer, it’s not.
Now if only Simmons can get back to that 7 WAR form. He needs to hit but if he gets better its possible.
Only 25. Very possible that someone gets through to him that he isnt a power hitter and he starts going for gaps. When he gets on his hitting streaks, that usually what he is doing.
Highly unlikely at this point. Hitting habits don’t usually change at 25. He is what he is.
Defensive is way under valued by WAR. Freddie Freeman made only 5 errors all of 2014, was great defensively, but had a dWAR of -2.0. Now I am confident that Freddie should be at least even in dWAR. dWAR seems to be undervalued greatly. Simmons total WAR would be much higher if dWAR was more accurate.
If defense were valued more heavily, it would hurt Freeman’s value by those numbers, since they reflect negative defensive value.
What you’re trying to argue is that Freeman should not be valued negatively. Maybe so, but errors are only a part of how defensive value is measured.
Well what I am trying to say is it seems almost everyone is valued negatively. I feel as if having a negative dWAR is normal for everyone but the best defensive guys. If a normal definsive player has a negative WAR then there is a problem. An average player should have 0. So what I’m saying is it seems dWAR is shifted negatively. Simmons dWAR is thus that much better than an average player.
That’s because of the positional adjustment. First base is the easiest position to play, and so the assumption is that another 1B could play just as well, so his defense isn’t scored very high. And by the way, 5 errors for a 1B is actually not that good.
The Mets are never willing to give up something to get something,always looking for someone eldest tier one players while only offering tier 3 players in return
Braves are on rebuilding stage. By the time they’re considered true contenders, Simmons will be way past his prime. Why not push the button? Wheeler/Montero+ Flores/Cecchini
Because they’re planning to contend in 2017, well in his prime. They’ll also probably contend a bit next year – they’re not technically that far out of first this year either. Def better than everyone expected them to be.
They could catch the Mets w/ a good week too.
Braves just had a fortunate first half. They could easily be a bottom 10 team next year (actually, could still this year).
Past his prime? He’s 25.
Also, one of your scenarios is Montero (injured) and Flores for Simmons. That would be grounds for dismissal if the Braves made that trade.
I’d *LOVE* for that trade to go through, but it isn’t feasible. Montero is completing his rehab stint and he needs to build his value back up. Flores is a decent 2B option for a team, but he is a complimentary player at best.
Simmons isn’t the guy to make a big move for the Mets. They have the pieces to pull off a trade for a big player, but it needs to be someone who can help them score runs. They’re good enough at preventing runs, but if they can only score 1 or 2 runs a game, that doesn’t do them much good. Acquiring Simmons wouldn’t be worth it if the Mets start losing games 1-0 instead of 2-0 because of him.
I dont see the Braves trading away Simmons unless blown away by a deal. The ONLY reason Heyward was traded is because he was going to be free agent. Simmons is locked up and pretty reasonable too. Simmons is only 25 and has time for his bat to come around.
Simmons+ Jenkins/Sanchez for Wheeler and Conforto… it makes more sense as Sanchez can be a TOR arm in a few years and we like TJ arms(Wheeler) and need bats (Conforto)… Mets need a SS-SImmons who is one of the best defensive wizards in the game, and Sanchez with nice pitching upside…
If Mets want a Quality Shortstop for “TEN” Years they have to give one of Young Guns to Braves, it’s that or Died with a AAAA Shortstop !
Tejada has been replacement level at SS. The Mets won’t have an all-star at every position so that is passable if they can get some of their injured bats back.
Ask the Bravos again next year. Might be interested then. Getting a big return on him now in the form of current mlb stars isn’t what ATL is about for this year of the rebuilding process. Clearly, though, no one is beyond being traded by the Braves. See, Kimbrel for example.
Most players all had good reasons for being traded. Kimbrel to dump BJ. Only way Simmons goes is attached to Chris Johnson
If they got Simmons, that would be a downgrade offensively. This is silly. I know the man’s a defensive wizard but that’s not the problem, Sandy!
How? Simmons .263/.325/.667 Tejada .257/.327/.675 . Pretty similar slash lines. Even for career, pretty similar. Dont see a downgrade at the plate.
I’m guessing they asked for Harvey, DeGrom, Syndergaard, Wheeler, Nimmo, Conforto, Matz, Cecchini, and Montero. The Mets probably countered with Niese and/or Wheeler.
Seems like most eyes are on NY in the east…but its Atlanta that I find the most intriguing. They’re making small moves now…but they are finding good footing…they’ll be OK soon
What about Simmons to the other New York team for Severino/Mateo/Cave/Clarkin?