5:20pm: A team source tells MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan that a trade for Hamels “is not on the board” at time time (Twitter link).
11:39am: The Rangers and Phillies are “having ongoing dialogue” regarding the possibility of a deal that would send lefty Cole Hamels to Texas, Jon Morosi of FOX Sports reports on Twitter. Hamels cannot block a deal to the Rangers pursuant to the current list of teams covered by his limited no-trade clause, Morosi adds in a later tweet.
Texas has received surprisingly solid results from its rotation. And as Morosi notes (Twitter link) the club still expects to receive contributions from rehabbing starters Martin Perez, Matt Harrison, and Derek Holland.
While those factors might indicate that the Rangers could sit back and rely on its internal options, there are other indicators favoring a move. The current staff has succeeded in spite of rather uninspiring peripherals. And the injured pitchers still have a ways to go to prove they will be durable and effective.
Per Morosi, the real motivating factor on the Texas side of the equation is the fact that the team “view[s] Hamels as [an] elite upgrade.” Given his contract, the Rangers presumably see Hamels as a current and future asset that could not only give the team a shot this year but pair with Yu Darvish atop the staff for seasons to come. It remains to be seen how much staying power this year’s Rangers club has, but adding Hamels certainly would not be solely a “win-now” move.
As of late April, at least, Philadelphia was reportedly asking for a package headlined by catcher Jorge Alfaro and outfielder Nomar Mazara. Both of those prospects were rated among the Rangers’ top five heading into the year by Baseball America. While they would look to be great fits for a Philly organization that is looking to add premium talent, it remains to be seen whether Texas has any appetite to pay that kind of price. (Note that Alfaro may not be a movable asset this point, as he is dealing with a significant ankle injury.)
Needless to say, the Phillies will hope that several other bidders enter the fray to drive up the return. Things are shaping up rather nicely for GM Ruben Amaro Jr., as many of the clubs that seem like a fit remain in contention and in need of an arm. Meanwhile, the other presumed top arm available, Johnny Cueto, is a pure rental who now faces at least some potential health questions.
Hamels has been as strong as ever this year, racking up 94 1/3 innings of 2.96 ERA pitching with 9.8 K/9 and 3.0 BB/9. And the 31-year-old seems ready to move past a seemingly minor hamstring injury to make his next start.
The Hamels contract looks more and more appealing every time you check back: he’s owed the balance of a $22.5MM salary this season, and then has three guaranteed years plus an option for a total guarantee of just $73.5MM. (Hamels’ deal also included a $6MM signing bonus, with an unreported payout schedule, which could still factor into the equation.) Essentially, a team dealing for him now would not only have the benefit of adding a top arm for the rest of this year, but would be making a future commitment that is not much greater than the contract signed last year by James Shields (four years, $75MM). At the start of 2016, Hamels will be a full year younger than was Shields at the start of his deal.
I do believe this might be the start of trade season. Sure there have been a few minor deals here and there, but if and when this goes down, the floodgates will be opened.
Bullpen is the weak link, Rangers will not contend if they don’t get more help there…
i’m with elothan. The Rangers starting pitching has been pretty solid even without Yu, Holland, Perez and Harrison. How well any will come back is of course unknown but as good as Hamels is, I don’t think the Rangers really need him. Maybe go after Pappelbon if the price isn’t too high but I suspect it is. Getting good setup pitchers is a matter of luck. Up to last year, Texas had a good run with guys like Ogando, Ross, Adams, Sheppers, Feliz, Nathan, Uehara, Frazier, Soria and Cotts. The last couple years, they’ve struggled.
It’s all going to circle back to what Gammons said should happen in the offseason, Hamels for Manuel Margot, Brian Johnson, and a couple B prospects. Margot is going to be a Top 15 in baseball in the midseason updates according to list makers on twitter this week, Johnson is already Top 100 and cruising through Triple-A.
I don’t see Phillies doing that trade at all.
The Red Sox should not go for Hamels unless they go on a massive run before the deadline that shows they are top tier team that just had some bad luck and slumps and some big injuries at the same time. Not likely to happen but if lets say Betts and Bogarts play like the super stars they were billed as, Hanley starts hitting like the elite hitter he is, Sandoval shows his career isn’t on the downside and comes up with clutch hitting and solid d, ETC, ETC, but only then should we try to make a big move. But if they were, a trade of Margot, Johnson and a couple B prospects (which the Red Sox have a lot of very interestingones( and the fact that instead of sending some dead money they can take on Allen Craig who could fetch more prospects if he becomes Allen Craig again).
Thing is Hamels is signed for 4 more years (he’s make the Sox pick up his option to waive no-trade). He’s not a win now move, he’s an I don’t have to spend 200 million in the off season to get an ace move because that problem is now solved. And it would take more than Margot, Johnson and some b’s. Probably Margot, Devers, Johnson and one more quality piece. Unless the Phillies are looking for a package centered around pitching. The I don’t think the Sox have enough left to get that done.
Everytime I hear something different about what the Phillies are want. Margots stock is rising to the point that he is a legit centerpiece. As we have seen with Moncada and others prospect have value and Hamels is not cheap so its not like they are saving alot by not going after an ace in the offseason. Theres at least 3-4 legit aces on the free agent market plus a lot of other good pitchers The Red Sox should not trade young players until they know for sure that they are ready. Theres a chance they may not be good next year. It is not the time to trade for Hamels. He is no spring chicken.
Gammons is a Red Sox homer and plants whatever they want. Red Sox seemed to think they could bully RAJ into flinching and get Hamels at a financial discount AND not pay much in prospects. That might have worked if Hamels had a full no trade and only wanted Boston. Phillies have 9 teams he can’t block a deal to and several want Hamels or a front line pitcher (Yankees/Rangers/Cubs being three).
Barring Hamels getting injured in the next month one of those teams will pay a better price than that Gammons deal.
The Phillies don’t have much, but they have plenty of speedy centerfielders. They aren’t going to take a deal headlined with one of them when they can get a power hitting corner outfielder like Nick Williams or Nomar Mazara instead.
It’s all currency, and the sooner fans realize that the less ridiculous trade offers people will talk about.
I’m fine with Margot being the headliner, but the rest of that package is subpar.
I could be wrong but Texas might have a catcher the Phillies prize.
@Red_Line_9 since it isn’t allowing me to reply directly to your comment..yes they do, Jorge Alfaro who’s currently out with an ankle injury and last I read could miss the rest of the season after surgery.
Thanks…I couldn’t recall his name offhand.
Right the Red Sox are just a single starting pitcher out of contention… 😛
the Phillies have to insist on Joey Gallo….
They can insist all they like, but there’s less than 0% chance they’d get him
Great analysis.
guess I’m just having a hard time figuring out how James Shields gets you the #1 prospect in baseball and Cole Hamels wouldn’t…
KC was willing to pay that price and it paid off for them. Shields was a big reason the Royals were in the world series last year. We have no idea what the Phillies want but Beltre is getting old and Gallo is their future at third. It’s like asking the Cubs if they would give up Bryant for Hamels.
Different situation. The Royals didn’t have a spot for Myers so they moved him. If he had been integral to their outfield, they would have kept him. Gallo’s much more important to the Rangers than Myers was to the Royals. It’s not the Cole Hamels won’t get him; it’s that nobody will.
I’m really surprised Boston didn’t do something already for Cole.
Cole Hamels isn’t going to fix the Red Sox. Their entire rotation is a mess, their defense is a disaster and their offense is far worse than expected.
BOS or TEX…and I see him going to TEX unless BOS panics. I think RAJ is an idiot, but I think he lucked into a pretty favorable position for Cole.
If you’re going to give him credit for his bad moves, then you must give him credit for the way he waited out Hamels, got pretty good deals for Byrd and Rollins, and got steals in the draft (presumably) in Nola and Crawford.
I’ll also give him credit for Cornelius Randolph in 2015. I suspect he was one of the few position players ATL was targeting if he fell to them. He could be a very good future 3B, if SS does not work out.
Danny Almarez (Braves former head of int scouting and current Phillies dir of scouting) prob has similar tastes having been with the Braves so long. Altho he announced shortly after drafting Randolph that he will be an outfielder.
Phillies see him as a LF.
That’s fair. I’ll also give him credit for Ryan Howard.
I’ll say that it might all be posturing to get the Dodgers involved
I’ll go with 1 of the other 27 clubs acquiring him.
NYY or TEX
He’ll accept a trade to either one. Boston is on his no-trade list, as is Houston. (And why would he want to come to Boston in the middle of this season?!?)
alfaro and Mazara. i’d get that done. Catchers take forever to develop and may never develop. Mazara might be good, however, just a prospect as or right now.
Isn’t Ken Giles a really valuable trade piece right now? Rebuilding teams absolutely do not need relievers. At all. Ever.
The problem is he is more valuable to the Phillies than other teams would be willing to pay.
Yeah but RAJ has been overvaluing his entire team for ages.
When you rebuild and have a good reliever for no reason, you flip them for what you can.
I don’t agree. You trade pieces that are not going to part of your next contending team. That doesn’t not apply to Giles as they view him as their closer if and when they trade Papelbon. That being said, they should and will listen on anyone.
Yes, he would be a really valuable trade piece if he was available. I know most relievers seem to be bipolar from year to year, but he’s only 24 and isn’t even arbitration eligible til 2018 so there’s no reason to move him unless a team came to you with a can’t say no offer (which is doubtful for a reliever). Rebuilding teams do not need older or overpriced relievers, hence why someone like Papelbon is the one readily available.
They don’t need him, period. The Phillies literally have no long-term position players other than 3B with Franco. Every contending team (which is most teams this year) can and should give up a top 50 prospect for him.
SS JP Crawford is a top-5/10 prospect in all of baseball now according to most in the industry. CF Roman Quinn looks good (has an oblique injury now but has been killing it). Beyond that, they are weak at position players but Ken Giles isn’t going to bring back the type of return worth moving him for. Sure if the Pirates came calling and offered Austin Meadows for Giles or the Nationals offered Trea Turner for Giles, I’m sure the Phillies would do it. But I don’t see any team giving up that caliber of prospect for a reliever, even if he does project as a future closer.
Exactly. Nothing they’d likely get back would equal Giles value to the team…young controllable.
JP Crawford, according Keith Law, is the 2nd best prospect in all of baseball tearing up AA pitching as one of the youngest players in the league. Not to mention, his glove is already ready for MLB and scouts have praised his defense, saying it is gold glove calibre. So the left side of their infield (theoretically) looks very promising. They really need a big corner OFer, 2nd baseman, or C.
There are multiple corner outfielders hitting free agency this fall, too. The Phillies should and probably will be in on Upton, Heyward, and Gordon.
Hey Texas fans, what’s the deal with Alfaro’s ankle injury? Is he having surgery and/or going to miss the rest of the year? I haven’t seen any update lately.
All I have heard is that it is a significant ankle injury and he was in a walking boot. They are looking at different ways of rehab but surgery is a possibility. Looks like his season is all but done.
Also another note on Alfaro…he is a top of the line catcher, but does have some problems staying healthy. If he can stay healthy he is a definite top of the line catcher (pudge has been mentoring him the last couple of springs)
Yeah, I’m definitely a fan of his and understand why the Rangers (and their fans) want to hold on to him. The injuries do concern me, as does some of his defense behind the plate, but if he’s working with Pudge I’m sure that’ll improve dramatically.
Solid catcher who has problems staying healthy….he should be a Met!
Solid catcher currently with high upside, being mentored by one of the best catchers of all time. He is a very important piece to the Rangers.
There hasn’t been an official word on the length of Alfaro’s absence this year. Outlooks are grim, and I would expect him to miss the rest of the season as a precaution. I honestly don’t see the Rangers giving up Alfaro in a Hamels deal. Rangers rotation, as stated, has been surprisingly good with rookie Chi Chi Gonzalez giving them some great starts this year. With Harrison and Perez currently in rehab starts, I think they may believe they have enough on the rotation to contend. The bullpen is a different story, and I expect a move to be made. If the Rangers are still in contention for the West, I expect you will see deals similar to the ones made for Mike Adams and Koji Uehara a few years ago.
There’s a way to do things, and in Cole Hamels case, one specific case comes to mind.
When JD Drew was entered into the draft, his agent (Scott Boras) faxed all the MLB teams saying that he was DEMANDING $10 Million to sign him, and if they were not willing offer that, don’t draft his client.
The Phillies called his bluff and drafted JD Drew, but true to his word – Boras had Drew sit out the entire year and the Phillies lost Drew and the #2 pick in the draft that year – which had they chose someone else, would have been a star.
That case makes me think of what the Phillies should do concerning Hamels.
Have them contact all the teams and tell them to make their BEST offer for Hamels, that they won’t get a second chance and the team with the best offer (should it meet fair value) will be the winner of Hamels.
They can do this by having the other teams interested in making an offer submit a list of players that the Phillies can chose up to 3-5 players based on the list of prospects presented.
For instance: Say the Red Sox present these players and tell the Phillies they can pick any four from this group:
1) Margot
2) Owens
3) Devers
4) Marrero
5) Coyle
6) Brentz
7) Cecchini
8) Bradley Jr
9) Craig
Now each team could present a list like this allowing the Phillies to pick out the team offering the best prospects/needs for the Phillies.
Forget the back and forth ramblings, no BS – Just a list of who the other teams are willing to give up… Amaro doesn’t have to keep asking other teams for players they won’t give up. It allows the Phillies to look at all offers and I am sure a few teams can put a list of players that the Phillies can finally decide from.
Hey, this is just a thought… but I think that would be the best way and most fair for all, also allowing all teams to be involved, who knows, a team previous never considered buyers may surprise and include a package better than the rest.
No other teams know what the others are offering, thus more open to add players they may not have on a one on one talk between that team’s GM and Amaro.
If this was to happen I imagine they’d tier the list and basically say take one from Tier I, one from Tier II, and two from Tier III.
But realistically, I don’t see 29 teams being happy with what is essentially an ultimatum. Deals are made through negotiating back and forth. I don’t see one side (let alone 29) being okay with a team saying “okay make your best offer, this is the only time you have a chance to offer me a deal..go” And I definitely don’t see teams playing ball if a GM did this when the GM is of RAJ’s caliber.
Creative idea though.
It is creative,but you know as well as I do all GM’s have a (I need to be in control)complex.
Haha yup. This is where I miss the upvote.
Who could the Phillies have taken at #2 in 1998 that would have been a “star?” The only player in the 1st round that year that could be considered a star was Lance Berkman, but he was taken at #16. There is no way the Phils would have taken him at #2. Sure there were other solid semi-star players like Troy Glaus, Vernon Wells, Michael Cuddyer, and Jon Garland that could have been picked. But it’s not like 1998 was a loaded draft like 2005 or something. The second highest career WAR in the 1st round that year actually turned out to be J.D. Drew, so the Phils picked the right guy, they just screwed up signing him.
They got the same fax all other teams did… and they were never going to offer $10 Million for Drew.
They lost their pick and then had to pay Burrell $10 Million to sign the very next year.. Their sandwich pick (Jason Michaels) sealed how bad picking Drew ending up being..
They should have picked Glaus knowing what they knew.
Just like Boston should have traded for Hamels before the season started.
Now they are paying for it with a last place team.
I’m not sure this doesn’t happen fairly often actually… But just logically speaking…most teams for one reason or another won’t be in on a player. I believe many teams work with each other around basic parameters… Maybe Player A must be included…then players B-C from a short list. What this does do though is potentially benefit the dealing team because a team might make a player available that wouldn’t have been thought of. With lower level players it really comes down to their own internal pro scouting opinion as well…which could vary greatly team to team.
I think it’s more like Ben asks Amaro who he wants for Hamels and he starts with Betts and Swihart.
Here is a fair trade for both teams. All rankings were taken from MLB top 100 prospects 2015.
Rangers get
Cole hamels
Phillies pay the remaining salary this year
Phillies get
Nomar Mazara #3
Lewis Brinson #6
Nick Williams #7
Jerad Eickhoff #19
Jose Leclerc #21
Texas keeps 4 of their top five prospects and the Phillies get a starting outfield of guys plus a mid rotation starter and a reliever out of the deal.
Phillies wouldn’t want the main pieces of the trade to all be OF.
Hamels for JBJ and Victorino. Shane is on the upswing!
Throw in Allen Craig and it’s a deal!
And a bag of popcorn
This may be a ridiculous trade offer(feel free to inform me ha) one way or the other, but I’d like to see something in vicinity of:
Cole Hamels
Jonathan Papelbon
money
for
Jorge Alfaro(yes I know, he is good, so was Profar AND Olt)
Nick Williams
Nick Martinez(he and ChiChi will come back down to earth)
Neftali Feliz
I’m sure too much going one way or the other(Alfaro value/injury hard to assess), but seems like good prospects for non-rental impact players, and hopefully the Rangers can get it for less(doubt it)…
Slightly off-subject, but I still remind my buddies how much they all dogged me when I suggested Andrus and Olt to the DBacks for Justin Upton, and that they were SOOOO excited when Elvis signed his extension. Sometimes it’s still very wrong to be right, and that extension still makes me want to cry : )
Go Rangers
Phillies won’t want Feliz… but they will want Mazara.
I don’t see what the problem would be with all outfielders in the trade. They have no power hitting outfielders in the system and all 3 guys hit for power. I know they have the kid in center at double A but its not like they couldn’t covert one of those guys to first base. I’m not big on the catcher in the Rangers system and there is no way the are getting Galo!!!
Who is being quoted in the Texas front office? Barry or Levon? “Shhhh never you mind…Hamels isn’t on the table at this time time my baby.”
If anyone hasn’t seen Barry and Levon from The State…its a definite trip on YouTube
I think Hamels still goes to the Cubs, Baez, Almora, Edwards, and Wood, maybe Schwarber.
If Schwarber, Baez, Almora and either Woods or Edwards are offered, The Phillies jump on that…
Maybe not on Schwarber. There’s no way the Cubs will trade both Baez and Schwarber. They’d look to move Vogelbach, though, since his position is blocked. Something like Baez, Vogelbach, and Edwards would be a strong start to a trade.
Before Baez got hurt I thought this very likely…with Papelbonn packaged with Hamels as well. Now it probably isn’t going to happen.
Hamels for JBJ, Coyle and Barnes. Peter Gammons and Nick Cafardo are drooling over this proposal. Maybe if the Phils throw in Franco they could pry Nava away.
Adding Franco and Nava is just flat out ridiculous. If Nava is added, you have to add Franco and JP Crawford at a minimum from the Phils side.
When you’re talking about prospects, it’s just a shot in the dark. I honestly thought Texas made a terrible deal to get Cliff Lee for Blake Beavan and Justin Smoak. I thought those were two real studs. Honestly, Lee didn’t pitch all that well for the Rangers in the regular season but was awesome in the playoffs. And now in hindsight, it was a great deal because even though Lee left as a FA, the Rangers probably don’t make it to the WS that year and Beaven & Smoak have been duds.
People often forget this and get too convinced their said prospect is going to hit 100% of their ceiling. They have to remember that a team like the Phillies is selling off a proven ace for a chance at a good player. This is why they would be asking for top guys. At the same time, it’s understandable that teams don’t want to give up young possible future stars.
I don’t think any team is being unreasonable here because they don’t have to give in yet as there is plenty of time to deal yet.
If the Phillies do not do the deal for Hamels, The Braves could offer Julio Teheran to the Rangers for a similar package. Since Teheran has such a team friendly contract less than half the cost of Hamels for one more year, the Braves would need another prospect in the deal. Especially with Alfaro injured, Luke Jackson or Nick Williams would have to be included along with Mazara and Alfaro (What is going on with his weight?).
A typical start against the A L…………WHY, can fans not see this???????
I’m quite sure Daniels knows……..