8:58pm: The Blue Jays had a scout in Cincinnati to watch the Phillies’ series against the Reds, writes CSNPhilly.com’s Jim Salisbury. According to Salisbury, that scout may have also been checking out right-hander Aaron Harang and lefty Cole Hamels. (Salisbury adds that Hamels will not approve a trade to Toronto, however, as has been previously reported.) Salisbury adds that multiple sources have told him that the Blue Jays and Phillies have indeed been discussing Papelbon quite recently.
5:57pm: The Phillies “are ready” to trade Jonathan Papelbon and have had recent discussions with the Cubs and Blue Jays regarding the five-time All-Star, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. However, there’s currently nothing close, and talks between the Phillies and both of those teams are at an impasse, per Rosenthal.
The Phillies are willing to pay a significant portion of Papelbon’s contract if it means receiving better prospects, and since speaking with the Blue Jays last week, they’ve increased their scouting of Toronto’s minor league affiliates. The Blue Jays are on Papelbon’s no-trade list, though Papelbon said months ago that he would have interest in pitching for Toronto. The Jays are currently one game above .500 and just three games back in the AL East, despite the fact that they’ve endured bullpen struggles nearly all season.
As for the Cubs, their front office knows Papelbon well. Both president Theo Epstein and GM Jed Hoyer worked for the Red Sox when Papelbon was drafted, and each has a respect for his work ethic despite his somewhat abrasive personality. The Cubs aren’t committed to Hector Rondon as the team’s closer and are trying to add multiple late-inning alternatives, hence their recent signing of Rafael Soriano.
Rosenthal hears that the Phillies prefer to deal with the Blue Jays as opposed to the Cubs. I’d imagine that moving Papelbon to Toronto could require the Phils to eat more cash, as Toronto has more budgetary constraints. They’re said to have between $5MM and $8MM to make in-season additions, though Papelbon is earning $13MM this season, of which $8.3MM remains. It seems unlikely that the Blue Jays would want to place all their eggs in this one basket by spending all of the money they have left on Papelbon’s salary. Additionally, Papelbon’s $13MM vesting option has to be a consideration, as if he were inserted into the ninth inning in Toronto, he’d almost certainly reach the 48 games finished needed to lock in that final year.
Wonder if the Yankees are interested now that Andrew Miller is on the DL
Funny note- The Yankees in the draft just drafted a LHP named Andrew Miller out of high school.
Hope it is nothing serious with Miller.
I know a lot of O’s types were annoyed that we didn’t resign him.
However, I just don’t see Ruby trading Papelbon to the Yankees.
Plus could you really see Paps in pinstripes.
I couldn’t.
Interested to hear why you don’t see Ruben trading Papelbon to the Yanks. I don’t really see it because the Yankees would have no issue paying Pap and would rather do that than give up the prospects unlike the other teams involved. But I can’t really see a reason why RAJ wouldn’t deal Pap to the Yanks if they were interested and made the best offer.
Could happen, especially if Miller is out a lot longer than 15 days. But it’s worth noting that the Phillies and Yankees do not have a productive trade history. Or, more bluntly, the Phillies have rarely gotten anyone good from the Yankees since 1909. Perhaps getting Kenny Lofton for 1 year in 2004 was the best player they ever got.
The Phillies have a MUCH better trade history with their division rival Mets than they do with the Yankees.
You mean trading Abreu and Lidle for Matt Smith and some other scrubs didn’t pay off??
I could see him in pinstripes. Although I don’t know how his personality would play out there. I do know he’s not opposed to mustaches.
Teams are more interested in the Jays farm right now for a reason, unless the Phillies feel they can take Sevirno or Clarkin from the Yankees I don’t think they even give them a chance to make a trade with them.
The Phillies aren’t short on money, there’s absolutely no reason to trade someone because of financial reasons as they’re willing to eat Papelbon’s contract.
Um, more interested in the Jays than the Cubs? I hope you mean it’s because you have top pitching or something along those lines. Because our farm system is MUCH better than the Jays.
The jays in terms of pitching prospects are beyond loaded.
Also when did I once bring up or say “Cubs” in my post? I was clearly comparing it to the Yankee farm system.
The Cubs are position player strong in prospects.
The article says it is between the Jays and Cubs.
That’s not who I’m replying to.
Not any more.
There is no team in baseball that couldn’t put together an acceptable package for Papelbon. He’s a good closer but he’s not going to break anyone’s bank. It just depends on who is willing to put together the best package, not who has the best prospects.
Doubt it, seems as if the Miller injury is minor(let’s hope, anyhow). If it becomes more serious, then a larger move could be possible, but I don’t see Pap wanting to pitch in NY, and I don’t know how much NY would want Pap to pitch for them.
Agreed on Miller. One of the great remake stories of the last dozen or so years, from heap to stardom.
If you’re the Jays, you need to make this happen
No you really don’t. You do realize we would have to give up one of our prized arms for him don’t you? Especially if they eat salary.
Lol, no we don’t. It’s Papelbon not Chapman/Kimbrel. Good prospect sure but not a Norris/Sanchez and ESPECIALLY not a Hoffman. Give your head a shake.
Well, RAJ is only going to want 2 mlb ready prospects so you can keep one of those three.
Castro is probably the highest pitcher they could get from jays system I would think. Maybe castro plus a lesser prospect or two and jays pay substantial portion/ majority but millions short of all of the contract. If more I would be honestly shocked, and if that isn’t good enough, then just not worth it and jays should shop elsewhere
Papelbon has been better then Chapman over the last 2 seasons.
He’s also going to be going back to the AL and no longer with a 95mph+ fb that he left with, but with one he’s lucky touches 91-2.
Edit: Just to add a note.. His splitter isn’t anywhere near what is Uehara’s for someone with a mediocre FB now and his slider was never anything more than below average. Control and command has always been his finest point, plus power FB before and he no longer has that. The AL East still has the hitters, even though most teams are struggling record wise. He comes there with mediocre stuff and he’s in for a world of hurt.
NL/AL is relevant because hes not gonna face a pitcher regardless..
Um, no. There’s no comparison between Papelbon and Chapman. Papelbon is a good piece but Chapman is the gold standard for relievers, and is outta this world amazing.
Not as much over the past few seasons (this one included). Chapman is still really, really good, but the comparision between Papelbon and Chapman are closer than you would think.
Papelbon: 1.79 ERA, 51/55 SVO, 209 ERA+
Chapman: 2.10 ERA, 48/51 SVO, 179 ERA+
No comparison? Paps been better.
You misunderstand me… I would not trade one of those arms BUT you know that the Phillies are looking to stockpile GOOD prospects. They are not going to let one of their prized trade pieces get away for a B prospect like Urena or Smith Jr etc. If they were to trade Castro for him, he would be the only “good” prospect I would let go. Not because he had his issues this year. Even before this year I was not as high on him as some other people were. I just know that if the Phillies are going to eat some of his contract, the Jays are more than likely going to be asked to give up a good prospect. I’d rather not.
Prospects are just that… Prospects. You as a fan, sound like you want to have your cake and eat too. You gotta gives something to get something….. You can argue what to give up is too much, and wait until the stars align perfectly, because you’ll undoubtedly at some point need to give up your top prospect if your team wants to make a trade in july. Good luck with that….
You misunderstand again… I am saying Philly will want a top prospect(s). They Jays will not (should not) give up a top prospect for him. Show me precedence where a top prospect was given up for an aging, expensive reliever who was good? I can’t think of any but I wouldn’t mind being proven wrong if a few examples can be shown.
Maybe I’m wrong here, but wouldn’t Papelbon get a lot more than a 1/13 contract if he was FA this offseason? Yes, it would be less AAV, but he’d get 2-3 years guaranteed at this point, right?
Jays trade 2 Mid-Prospects (Outside of Top 8) for $5 million and Papelbon. Jays can then fit in his option next year as they approx. have $20 million+ potentially coming off the books ( Izturis, Navarro, Buehrle, Estrada, Dickey, Romero ). Both team get what they want and Jays don’t spend to their caps and still have Navarro to trade for more bullpen help.
Who do you consider to be the Jays top 8? Off the top of my head it obviously includes Sanchez (if he’s still considered a prospect), Norris, Pompey, Hoffman, and Pentecost. Not familiar enough with the rest of the Jays system and the main prospect sites seem to differ after that on the next few.
But the two teams definitely look like a good match depending on the money being sent over to TOR and prospects involved.
Miguel Castro, Richard Urena, and Sean Reid Foley would be in there for sure as well. After that it is more up in the air. I wouldn’t include Sanchez at this point, so I count 7.
Yea, as long as the 7 you guys stated aren’t involved and money issue is in order, don’t see why the Jays won’t do it.
How about Osuna as a top 8 prospect?
up with Sanchez and Stroman now. Kid is a beast
He’s currently the Jays best reliever and likely not available
According to MLB.com – The Blue Jays top 8 are:
1) Norris
2) Pompey
3) Hoffman
4) Pentecost
5) Casto
6) Reid-Foley
7) Urena
8) Nay
The Papelbon contract at this point is a bargain. The contract vesting next year is actually a good thing. If he was to go on the market in the offseason he would be getting a lot more than hes due. The Phillies will be kicking in no money if the players being sent back arent top 100 prospects.
The dude is 35 years old. They will be insanely lucky to get a single top 100 prospect, even while throwing in at least 5 million.
He is striking out 10 over 9, has an ERA of one 1.13 (2.36 FIP) and the only number you point out is hes 35 years old.
Oh yeah you are right. Being a 35 year old reliever that is going to be making 26 million in the next two seasons seems like someone I would give up multiple top 100 prospects for. According to you 13 million is a bargain, but if I am going to give up top 100 prospects for a reliever it had better be Chapman. A 27 year old with an 8 million dollar contract and have negotiation rights.
Chapman is going to cost a lot more than multiple top 100 prospects. Chapman on paper would cost Norris, Hoffman, Pentecost +. When Papelbon probably costs Pentecost and depth. You need to go an look at the actual numbers Papelbon is putting up and has put up.
There have been multiple article posted stating that Chapman is worth either 2 prospects from between 50-100 or 1 prospect within the 25-50 range. He is going to make around 12 million next year.
Please link me.
Chapman would not cost two top pitching prospects, a top position prospect plus other pieces. I don’t think you have ever looked at any past trades before you made that statement have you?
You are kidding right? I wouldn’t give up any of those guys straight up for a closer. That’s just ridiculous.
2004…a conversation that never happened
George: I just signed Mo to an $21M extension with an option year,
Hal: Dad, have you lost your mind? Do you realize the man is 34 years old?
George: Trust me son, I know what I’m doing. Not every pitcher explodes when they reached 34 or 35 years old.
Hal: Dad, I’m going to have to check the medications that doctors have you on, this is crazy.
George: You may think I’m crazy but I think the guy can pitch past 40.
Hal: I’m sorry Dad, but it is a well-known fact that every single pitcher falls apart at the same time and same age. You have obviously lost your mind.
The numbers I also pointed out are not out of the norm. Papelbon has done nothing, but live up to the contract he was given. A 2016 of Papelbon for 13 million dollars is a bargain.
If the Phillies pitch in half of the salary, I could see them getting someone like Matt Boyd, but nothing better. You can fantasize all you want about his value, but look at past trades and you’ll get a reality check.
Soria was traded for two top 100 prospects last summer. Cheaper by about 8 million, though hadnt thrown more than 20 innings in 2 years.
Soria was performing better than Papelbon, cheaper, younger, and Knebel wasn’t top 100.
As is, the deal was seen as a coup for the Rangers as the Tigers were desperate. The Jays aren’t at this time, the BP is middle of the pack.
Eduardo Rodriguez?
Miller was better and cheaper than Papelbon and Rodriguez wasn’t a top 100 prospect.
Miller wasn’t better. Was cheaper though. Didn’t realize Miller made that little last year.
Yes, he was better and he was a lefty. Sorry, I don’t use ERA to evaluate pitchers.
You use the eye test I guess? Probably looked at the K/9 too.
Yes, giving up runs or inherited runners is so unimportant. It never effects the game outcome.
Papelbon has pitched lights out the past 2 years, better than any of his seasons since 2009. Age on a 1 more season plus this year doesn’t make a difference, results are all that matters.
2014 – (2-3) 39 SV / 2.04 ERA / 0.90 WHIP / .191 BAA
2015 – (1-0) 12/12 SV / 1.13 ERA / 0.91 WHIP / .186 BAA
Phillies cover 1/2 his price (11.5 Million) for 2 prospects in the line of #19 ranked LHP Matt Boyd and 21st ranked 1B Rowdy Tellez.
MORE than a fair deal.
I would take that deal. I don’t think the Phillies do that deal.
Amaro would be a fool to turn down two guys who would slot into his top 10 prospects.
Phillies aren’t eatting more then half of his owed money in exchange for 2 C+ prospects. Amaro has been asking for solid prospects the entire time.
If getting 2 prospects in the 18-25 range was what Amaro wanted, a Papelbon deal would have happened ages ago.
Don’t use preseason rankings, look at Boyd’s stats this year.
Papelbon for Reid Foley and Dejong
I don’t know if Papelbon’s deal would vest in Toronto. Despite the recent winning streak, the Jays have not had a save opportunity since May 4th due to high-scoring wins and losses. Brett Cecil has only had 3 save opportunities all season (granted, Miguel Castro was closer for a while). But Cecil has been the closer for well over a month now and every time he is close to getting an opportunity, one of the teams scores enough runs that he cannot get a save. That being said, the Jays’ bullpen is stronger with Cecil in the 8th, and they are more likely to have save situations if they blow fewer leads.
He should be in some save opportunies given that teams generally don’t win every game via walkoff on the road in a 1 run game like the Jays have this year.
They’re going to need some pen depth once that offense cools down to averaging 4-5 runs a game.
Save or no save, the jays need to upgrade their bullpen overall. Even if we cant give papelbon as many save oppurtunities as your talking about, id rather still him pitch in the 8th/9th over the likes of anyone else in our bullpen.
And lets face it, save oppurtunites will come. The streak that we are on is crazy and it will turn around. When it does, i hope we have papelbon instead of cecil as our closer thats for damn sure
Cecil is one of the best relief pitchers in the game over the past 3 years… One of the main purposes of adding Pap in my opinion is allowing Cecil to go down to help with higher leverage innings. Cecil is so underrated/ unappreciated in this town it makes me a little sad haha
I hope they trade for Papelbon as he would be an incredible add to the Blue Jays’ bullpen. I’m just questioning whether or not his option would vest.
He needs 100 GF combined for 2014-15. He had 55 last year and 22 this year so……….
Papelbon’s option vests with games finished, not saves, so all that matters is he’s the last pitcher for his team.
I think Papelbon would probably want the year picked up as a condition of accepting the trade.
That can be arranged !
He only need to finish 23 more games (he has already finished 22) for it to kick in.
Blue Jays make the most sense by far. But as the article states, the phillies need to be a significant part of the contract to make it happen.
Papelbon also stated how he is interested for playing with the blue jays. Jays need to make this work somehow.
Im saying maybe Pentecost for papelbon and 5m?
I think they plan on letting him develop to later be part of a major trade or for him to develop and share catching with Martin as he ages.
Absolutely is the catcher of the future was picked 11 overall I wouldn’t trade him catchers with his all around ceiling hard to come by especially for 2 years of pap
Don’t think it happens. Too much upside for an aging closer with a short contract and makeup concerns
I think its pretty fair, I mean with martin in the wings for the next 5 years, and we still have AJ jiminez as well.
No doubt, I just think if you’re going to give that much up then you can do better on the relief market.
Name me 1 reliever whos better, and can be had just for Pentecost. Chapman would cost more.
I’m not sure who you would agree is better, but you could get a comparable veteran like K-Rod without Pentecost and for less salary. Obviously you could also get a younger guy with control like A.J. Ramos or Shawn Tolleson for Pentecost.
They can have Jimenez
What makeup concerns are you talking about? Has been the best closer in the league last few years on a crappy team. Yes he says some dumb stuff but by all accounts he was a positive influence on the Phils young bullpen.
why hasn’t Pentecost played this year?
He’s recovering from tommy John surgery
And recovery is never certain.
I never implied that it was but about 90% of players tend to come back 100% the real test is how long it holds up some never have a problem again others have blown it out again rather quickly cough Drabek
90% is not even close. The most extensive study of late was done on pitchers 20% never return to pitch, 13% return to pitch less than 10 games ,67% that do return to pitch more than 10 games in a season following their return. 53% of TJS pitchers that return end up the DL with problems with their pitching arm. The numbers I just listed are from a study of the 147 MLB players who underwent TLS between 1999 and 2011. it was done by the American Journal of Sports Medicine…. Performance, Return to Competition and Reinjury After Tommy John Surgery In Major League Baseball Pitchers and published in 2014. Add to all of that, that ERA increases (4.23 to 4.67 ), WHIP increases (1.368 to 1.432 ), BAA increases (.249 to 2.57 ), velocity decreases ( 91.2 to 90.8), IP decreases (94.3 to 77.3) and on and on. I know these are #’s for pitchers but it goes a long way to disparaging the myths. Oh, of the 11 pitchers that had repeat TJS in 2014, 45% were less than 3 years removed from the first procedure.
Position players are a different proposition
Sure. Is that because they are magical or can you say for certain that position players do not have a 20% “never return” rate? Position players still have to throw and TJS, no matter how hard people want to believe, is not a guarantee, it does not work every time. It’s a myth just like “I want my kid to be a big star, so I’ll get him TJS as a preemptive strike”
Are we sure Pentecost had TJS? This is all I’ve read “According to Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet,
Pentecost underwent a second shoulder scope procedure recently, once
again performed by Dr. James Andrews to clean-up the shoulder joint. His
previous surgery was to repair a partially torn labrum.”
Not stuff I want to hear about in a younger catcher’s throwing shoulder, but also not TJS. But I thought I heard it was TJS until I just googled it.
I really don’t know. I was responding to the “90% return to 100%” myth. I do know that ANY elite closer plus $5m for a twice repaired prospect/suspect who has never played above Low A is laughable.
I like Pentecost’s upside a lot, so I guess a lot for me would depend on his rehab progression and physical. But shoulder issues are never good, especially a torn labrum in your throwing shoulder.
Yeah, magical, that’s it. A very logical response.
And of course the radical difference in the volume and types of activity. And well, people like Andrews saying its different.
I got my information from tommy john surgery Wikipedia and it lists 59 notable mlb pitchers who have had it done pretty much all returned to pitch in mlb lots are still pitching even now in the last 10 years success of the the surgery has been more than the previous 20 or so that’s why teams will spend first round picks on young players who have under gone the procedure because of the increases recovery rates that have been happening that’s why players like Aiken this year and Hoffman last year went in the first round I went through that list on Wikipedia and pretty much all came back some had second ones 7 players out of 59 so that’s one in 8.5 but almost all pitched again obviously it’s not going to be 100% successful but the success now is definitely more than back in the 70s 80s and 90s
I go by research papers like the one I mentioned or “Rate of Return to Pitching and Performance After Tommy John Surgery in Major League Baseball Pitchers” amongst many others, they are available on line . Wikipedia is the last place I go.
If you looked at Wikipedia you would see all 59 players have their own link to there career everything from when they were injured and when they came back and how long they pitched for before and after there surgery so there is 59 that most came back so maybe you should do more research before you argue a point that you didn’t even look up that facts I will believe what I read on 59 careers before a medical publication journal I’ve read articles from those that said smoking marijuana restores brain cells doesn’t make it true
You do realize that there are more than 59 players that have had TJS right? From 2012-2015 the procedure has been done 118 times on MLB players 46 of them in 2012 alone.
MLB only #’s 1996 – (10 TJS)…97 (7)…98 (0)….99 (22)…. 2000 (26)….2001 (25)…. 2002 (38)….2003 (29)….2004 (33)…. 2005 (13)…. 2006 (10)…. 2007 (7)….2008 (8)…. 2009 (8)….2010 (11)….2011 (30)….2012 (46)….2013 (25)….2014 (29)…. 2015 so far (18)
There has been no significant improvement in the surgery itself since the 1980s. Prior to 1996 the largest number of surgeries done in one year was 2.
Dr. Jobe’s own words “The techniques have improved though. It takes about an hour now. With Tommy, it took about four.”. The procedure is the same just quicker.
Each time I read your statement about doing research… And you use partial data from an open-source site like Wikipedia…. I have to laugh. Do you also calculate batting averages simply by selecting some of the games statistics?
wait, I thought he had shoulder surgery?
From the sounds of it in Rosenthals article Toronto is so far the only team Philly wants to deal Papelbon to.
“The sense among some in the industry, though, is that the Phillies would
prefer to deal with the Blue Jays — perhaps because the Jays would
offer better terms, perhaps because the Phillies want Papelbon out of
the National League.”
With Rodney struggling and Carson Smoth is young as a closer, Mariners and Phillies do make a good trading partner on Papelbon, Hamels, and either Utley or Howard. Papelbon as a closer in Seattle is a good fit should the Phillies want some good return that both teams can agree on.
Is Seattle close enough to contending to make big moves?
The AL West isn’t particularly strong right now, so theoretically it’s within reach, but if I were GM for a day, I wouldn’t do anything huge until/if the offense and rotation perform as expected.
5 games back of the Texas Rangers for second place on one of two wild card spots and 7.5 games back of the Astros. What will it take to just acquire Papelbon & Ruiz?
Ownership would fire your GM before a move was made to acquire a closer. The Mariners built a really poor defensive team built on power bats in a big ballpark. Cano’s mystery struggles aside, the team has been woeful offensively outside Nelson Cruz and nobody on that team gets on-base much.
Jack Z loves his RBI men, too bad he doesn’t understand how RBI’s work.
Ryan Howard is one of a RBI men that Jack Z will love instead of Carlos Ruiz.
Trading for Trumbo was a big move….?
Not as big as you think.
Jobs are on the line and AL West is weak, Houston falling back to pack
The Cubs should just give up all the big prospects blocked or not in their plans since they have so many and get Pap and Hamels and get it overwith already.
who needs to hold back any trade assets for the off-season, right?
And frankly the Cubs don’t need Hamels that badly… their starting pitching actually ranks near the top of the NL as it is… The Phillies need the Cubs prospects more than the Cubs need Hamels (who, if not traded by the deadline, can be had for much cheaper come said off-season).
And truthfully i’d rather have Clippard than Papelbon at this point… so much less money for the Cubs to swallow….
Then go for it ! But you be watching other teams play in October !
we would anyway because one reliever won’t put us ahead of the Cardinals and, as stated before, another SP won’t fix the Cubs problems.
Lester, Arrieta, and if he keeps it up, Hammel are a fine top 3 to run out in a short series if the Cubs make the playoffs.
For Paps, Hamels and Revere, the Cubs would have to give up a package like:
Schwarber / Edwards / Almora / Baez / Wood / Kendricks
CUBS: (2015 NL Central Division Champs)
1B) Rizzo
2B) Russell
SS) Castro
3B) Bryant
C) Montero
LF) Revere
CF) Fowler
RF) Soler
P) Hamels / Lester / Arrieta / Hammell / Wada / Jackson
RP) Papelbon / Rondon / Soriano / Russell / Grimm / Strop / Motte
(Teams would NOT want to face Hamels, Lester and Arrieta in the Playoffs!)
PHILLIES: (2016)
1B) C. Davis <— FA
2B) Baez
SS) JP Crawford
3B) Franco
C) Weiters <— FA
LF) Schwarber
CF) Herrera
RF) J. Upton <—- FA
P) Edwards / Kendricks / Nola / Wood / Biddle / Eflin / Lively / Windle
RP) Giles / DeFratus / Diekman / Garcia / Gomez / Ogando / FA
Phillies still trade Harang / Howard / Utley / Billingsley and Lee if Healthy
There better be quite a bit of money coming back from the phillies for this deal to happen.
For one top 100 prospect?
The deal listed above has 4 top 100 prospects. Schwarber who keith law lists at his #15 prospect. Baez was a top 10 prospect. Edwards is a to 50 prospect and Almora is a borderline top 50 prospect. I don’t know what prospect rating system you are looking at but to argue there is only one top 100 prospect in that bunch is nuts.
Point to Keith Law and then realize all Keith says is CJ Edwards is not a starting prospect. Almora is not a top prospect anymore. He is still struggling in a repeat season in AA. Baez as much as people want to point to his PCL numbers (again) is still swinging and missing. Your reaction was well informed….. in 2013.
Baez is injured and was absolutely raking it before he was recently hurt. I will not say he is going to be the player he could be, but power is certainly at a premium these days. CJ Edwards may be a mystery because of his frame alone, but he is most certainly a top 100 prospect by most prognosticators. Almora is still a top 50 prospect based on his defensive abilities. Again, don’t kid yourself this trade would absolutely never go through this would be entirely counteractive for the cubs.
He was absolutely raking because he plays in the PCL. He was raking prior to being called up last year. Almora is not a top 50 prospect by any prognosticator anymore.
Well Almora is still listed there by mlb. Also the field in Des Moines is not a batter friendly field. Feel free to go ahead and look at the stats.
True !
I’m not a Cubs fan and have consistently been down on Baez as a prospect. That being said, Baez is absolutely still valued as a top 50 prospect. He is only 22, was hitting almost 50% better than the PCL average and has cut his K% from 30% to 25.3% at AAA.
I always thought Baez would struggle with contact and was never going to be the star that Cub fans were expecting, but a MIF who can hit 25-30+ HR is still valuable even if he is only hitting .230 and striking out 200 times.
These guys are not that good ! Over-hyping your own Prospects doesn’t work anymore. Every team has eyes on all players who are Potential trade Material.
Over hyping players – does that work?
if you are including edwin jackson as a stater for 2015 central champs, and being able to trade a .186 hitter i take it this post is sarcastic.
Jackson would be #6 starter and stay as long man in relief.
Who’s the .186 hitter?
Utley is batting below the Mendoza line, Jackson shouldn’t even be the #8 starter on the KBO league.
Keep dreaming Cubs fan. It is so easy to be an arm chair GM.
Not enough !
Youre overvaluing guys that the whole league knows you are trying to trade in Papelbon and Revere. Not a ton of value there. Hamels is obviously the prize for the Cubs. Schwarber isnt going anywhere… even for Hamels. Remove Schwarber and Hendricks and add another midlevel arm, say Corey Black, and I could see this making sense for the Cubs. Baez would have to be the headliner for the deal to make sense… not Schwarber.
I’d rather trade Castro. He’d be the headline of any blockbuster deal. Cubs need to keep Baez. Think about it Bryant Russell Baez and Rizzo around the horn that’s potenially 90+hrs between. Rizzo and Bryant with 30 each. and Baez has scary power and Russell will get stronger and could get up to 20-25 hrs. While Castro is at his peak with 15-17.
Baez is untouchable. If the Cubs trade for Hamel it’s has to be a package with Castro. I’d take Russell and Baez all day over Castro. Castro stock is high and he’s not gonna wow people on Defenese. He’ll hit .290 with 15 HRs and 80 rbi. He’s not gonna get more than that. Baez if healthy can hit .285 with 30 hrs and 90+ rbi. Russell is only 21 and he’s only gonna get stronger. They need to let him play some SS for a week or 2.
As a Cubs fan, I don’t want Papelbon. I won’t deny we could still use some help in the pen (particularly if we are able to dump Wood or Jackson), but I’d rather it be somebody else. Really just don’t like the guy.
Because you don’t like him, is not a Logical reason , if he can help the Cubs Win that should be sufficient! Did you ever Work with somebody who Guts you couldn’t stand , think of it that way .
It’s a perfectly logical reason. That you do not share it does not make it illogical.
There are plenty of other pitchers out there who can help the Cubs’ bullpen and I would much prefer our resources go to acquiring them if we make a move for bullpen help at all. Papelbon has always been all about himself and I have no desire to see him in a Cubs uniform, much less in their clubhouse.
i’ve never been much of a Papelbon fan either. He seems quite full of himself.
Plus there are other relief help options that don’t come with a ridiculously expensive vesting option, which alone is enough of a reason for me to hope the Cubs look elsewhere.
no reliever is worth 10+ million a year.
Here’s the deal William. The Phillies are D-O-N-E for the next 5-8 years. They have no upside. The contracts are brutal, Among the worst in the game and they haven’t been able to unload a single contract because RAJ is a turd. The Cubs despite what you may think have the smartest front office in the game and they aren’t going to give up anything for Pap’s and they aren’t giving up top prospects for Hamels either. Problem is, the Phillies want the Cubs prospects but they don’t want to deal with the negotiations because they will lose. The Cubs have the best farm system in baseball. And why give up anything for Hamels when we can take our pick of 2-3 SP in the off season who are better? Schwarber is better than Ryan Howard right now man for the money. Teams would rather have Baez than Utley. RAJ is dreaming, if he wants to turn the Phillies into a baseball team he would take right now, Vogelbach, Castro and McKinney and give up Hamels at a minimum and eat salary. You won’t see anything close to that coming to the Phillies.
If something like this were to be discussed/offered, it takes the Blue jays out of the equation. Other than the obvious pitching that is close to major league ready, Toronto’s assets are limited in comparison to Chicago.
I presume the preference to deal with the Jays is either because it sends Pap out of the league (doubtful), or because Toronto will require thew Phils cover some of the salary, meaning better prospects in return.
If its to the Blue Jays – then any two of (Sean-Reid Foley / Matt Boyd / Rowdy Tellez) for Papelbon and cash.
I wonder if the Jays will try and get Ben Revere as well
The lefty bat and defense fit in well, so I could see it. You can platoon him with Pillar if Saunders comes back.
Ben Revere isn’t good in the outfield and has career revere splits.
Revere has been good in LF.
He has a Left field arm !
He’s fairly good in the corners. His arm plays up in left.
He would look pretty good as a #9 hitter in that lineup. He and Reyes would be a nightmare for pitchers as Bautista, Donaldson, etc come to the plate.
If Saunders does come back I don’t see how Revere will fit in with Toronto. He has been streaky at best with his defense and I am not sure that I trust his bat.
The Blue Jays need pitching.
Except that he’s not good anymore
Blue Jays had a scout in Cincinnati to watch the Phillies’ series against the Reds.
Good thing he was getting paid for that duty.
Phillies are taking after RAJ in thinking their players are worth far more then they actually are.
No more so than fans suggesting a straight up trade of a low A ball prospect recovering from TJS for an established closer and $5M. That’s not overvaluing at all is it? The most SMH moments on these boards are looking at some of the trade proposals and I am not talking just about Phillies trades.
Your argument that trading and established closer and $5 million for a low A ball prospect recovering from TJS is a bad idea is misinformed. That low A ball prospect was the 11 pick in the 1st round last year. His project value is worth much more then a closer making $13 million.
The only misinformation was me believing another poster saying it was TJS. It’s actually his 2nd throwing shoulder procedure. He has 25 games under his belt because he has been hurt more than healthy. All prospects are suspect especially injured ones.
Why aren’t the Yankees in the mix for this guy, especially if the
Phillies are going pick up a chunk of the money. He’d at least be a
solid 8th inning guy.
Because their bullpen is still quite deep. Losing Andrew Miller is a bit of a blow, but I wouldn’t lose my mind over losing a reliever for 15 days in early June.
Because of his vesting option, he won’t approve a trade to become an eighth inning guy. I know Yankees have a better option at closer, but I think the union may step in if he doesn’t finish games because his performance warrants that role.
As a Cubs fan, I hope we do not get Papelbon. I don’t want his clubhouse issues and I think he’s all smoke and mirrors at this point.
As a Cubs fan just be patient this year enjoy the ride but don’t trade future for papelbon or hamels. Free agency get chapman as closer and Cueto zimmerman or price and keep farm. As always draft and hoard bats just buy pitching.
Did anybody look at the Trumbo trade? Who do you think got the better deal, the M’s or the D-Backs?
How many trips to the World Series has you logic produced for the Cubbies in the Last 100 Years, Enough Said !
More bullpen arms are always a good thing and Papelbon is throwing great, but I don’t see the Cubs giving up anything of value (i.e. a Schwarber/Baez/Russell/etc) for a potential four-month rental. The Cubs are in the lower third as far as runs allowed in the 7th, 8th and 9th innings. Starters besides Arrieta and Hammel getting deep into games leading to weak middle relief is the bigger problem.
Besides, rumors of Hector Rondon’s demise are premature. His overall numbers aren’t as dominate as last year, but Maddon’s quick hook the other day was more about that particular outing and situation. Rondon’s only allowed runs in four of his 26 outings in 2015. He has an 0.79 WHIP in the 22 games where he hasn’t allowed a run.
The discussion on this possible trade betx the Phillies and Jays is surprising. Many of us arm chair observers want it. I say, hold the reins, there Mr. AA. It is still early.
The Jays’ Cecil is a proficient closer and Osuna could easily be used as his rhp setup guy. The Jays’ pitching has been better of late, but I feel they could use a mid-game reliever, esp for the 5th and 6th, when the starters seem to falter the most. And Sanchez who is suffering from tiredness may have to return to the bp. Maybe Oakland ( a reasonable trading partner) has a starter whom the Jays see as viable for the ame and its umpires.
What the team seems to have the most need here and now is a centerfielder. Saunders’ return this year is in doubt. Pillar is doing a great job and is learning well and doing better, ( as are all the other hitters ), since Jacoby’s return. You know, the winning steak. But it ( in all probability ) is not going to last, and the team should prepare it self by tweaking …C. Gomez for Pillar ( who will flourish with the Brewcrew) and a prospect(s)?
Jays can take Papelbon Cubs fans do not want him. He’s snarling look at the plate is worse than Brian Wilson’s beard