6:33pm: Newsday’s Marc Carig hears that the Mets have indeed discussed Aramis Ramirez with the Brewers. Any trade involving Ramirez would be more about how much of his contract the Mets would take on as opposed to what the Brewers would get in return. As for Segura, Carig writes that he’s not likely to be made available.
Though the two sides have talked, a Ramirez trade seems unlikely. FOX’s Ken Rosenthal hears that there’s little traction in Ramirez discussions because Milwaukee is uninterested in Niese (Twitter links). While Gee might be a better fit, there would be a lot more financial legwork to figure out in that scenario, per Rosenthal. Gee is owed a bit more than $3MM through season’s end, but Ramirez is owed an additional $8.8MM.
It could be argued that adding Ramirez wouldn’t be an upgrade for the Mets anyhow. While the team may very well benefit from upgrading by replacing Niese or Gee with Matz, much of that benefit could be outweighed by the lack of flexibility to make future moves as well as the possibility that Ramirez continues to produce at a sub-replacement-level pace.
5:37pm: The Mets have placed their efforts to trade a starting pitcher on hold during the draft but will now look to trade a starting pitcher “in short order,” tweets Newsday’s David Lennon. That lines up with recent reports from ESPN New York’s Adam Rubin and the New York Post’s Mike Puma stating that lefty Steven Matz could be up in the near future — perhaps before the end of June.
In order to accommodate Matz, the team seems likely to increase its efforts to find a taker for lefty Jon Niese (earning $7MM in 2015 and guaranteed $9MM in 2016 plus a pair of club options) or righty Dillion Gee (earning $5.3MM in 2015 and controllable via arbitration for the 2016 season). Both Niese and Gee could be viewed as superfluous with Matt Harvey, Jacob deGrom, Noah Syndergaard and the veteran Bartolo Colon all representing options, to say nothing of Matz or the currently injured Rafael Montero.
Furthermore, Jon Morosi of FOX Sports reports that the Mets and Brewers have had preliminary trade talks, with the Mets eyeing Milwaukee’s position players (Twitter link). That might lead to speculation regarding Aramis Ramirez, though in yesterday’s report, Rubin stated that the Mets have little to no interest in Ramirez. The Mets feel that Ramirez’s skills are diminishing, and they’re still hopeful that David Wright will contribute in 2015, so they prefer more versatile bats that can handle multiple positions.
Speculatively speaking, Jean Segura would make sense for the Mets, who have long been looking for an upgrade at shortstop due to defensive deficiencies with Wilmer Flores. Of course, Segura himself is not regarded as an elite defender, though his .287/.322/.408 batting line is superior to Flores’ .245/.270/.417 triple-slash. Segura also comes with an additional three years of club control beyond the 2015 season, making the likely asking price relatively significant. As such, it’s tough to imagine Gee or Niese serving as a significant component in a trade for Segura, though the Mets could always add other pieces.
It’s worth emphasizing, of course, that Morosi categorized trade talks between New York and Milwaukee as “preliminary,” and there are plenty of other teams that may have interest in swapping a versatile, if unspectacular bat for a veteran innings eater that can stabilize the back end of a rotation.
There are a number of other teams looking for some stabilization in the rotation. The Astros and Rays, for instance, have both incurred injuries to starters and have some versatile pieces to offer. Luis Valbuena hasn’t hit especially well this season, but he’s a earning a not-insignificant $4.2MM and could add some power to the Mets’ lineup, with the injured Jed Lowrie slotting back into his position once activated from the DL. The Rays have a number of versatile pieces, including Logan Forsythe, Nick Franklin and Asdrubal Cabrera. Forsythe has probably been too valuable for Tampa to move, however, while Franklin would figure to have more trade value than that of a back-end starter, and Cabrera has played quite poorly of late. A couple other versatile pieces that could be theoretical trade fits if the Mets can sweeten the deal would be the Mariners’ Brad Miller and the Dodgers’ Alex Guerrero.
A player such as Martin Prado or Ben Zobrist would seem to be a strong fit for the Mets’ desires, as Rubin noted yesterday, though they, too, would be difficult to acquire without including pieces beyond Gee or Niese.
As the above speculation indicates, it’s difficult to find an obvious fit for the Mets, as neither Gee nor Niese is teeming with trade value. GM Sandy Alderson will likely have his work cut out for him if his aim is to both free a spot in his rotation for Matz and add a bat that can help at the Major League level in one fell swoop. One way of accomplishing the goal would be to include Montero in a trade, but the promising young hurler has been on the disabled list since late April with a shoulder issue and has not yet begun a rehab assignment.
scann
Segura and Braun too Mets….for Montero,Matz,Cecchini and Plawecki….
We.Need.More.Grit
Don’t see why the Mets would want Braun. Aging, slowing production, reacurring thumb injuries, massive dollars attached to boot. Sure their OF sucks, but he isn’t a piece to fix it.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
The Mets OF is fine.
Plus, why would they want someone toxic like Braun?
I know I haven’t forgotten about impugning someone because of Braun’s drug test failure. I couldn’t see Mets fans tolerating someone like that.
Mark D
I dont really care about hating on PED users because I enjoy HRs more than I do long fly outs but I still don’t know why Brewers fans gave him a standing ovation in his first AB back.
Tko11
Arod still gets standing ovations from the Yankees crowds…I was at the game earlier this year and was disgusted. I don’t really get it because if the fans don’t care about cheating then why does the MLB even try to enforce their anti doping rules?
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Fans don’t care about how much money is spent on a player or how much the fan pays in order to get that player either.
I don’t get it.
dayanks
Arod served his time…most Yankee fans still hate him and wanted to get rid of him before the season started. Can’t blame some fans applauding him for hitting decently even from his two year absence.
seldomused
Ryan Braun is a shell of the player he used to be. He’s not worth the cost of the prospects required to get him.
davbee
Ryan Braun .829 OPS. He may be a “shell” of the player who once put up a .994 OPS, but he’s still darned productive.
Grizzy
The Mets have a functional offensive outfield that could undoubtedly be improved on.
Defense at the corner positions is the real concern, as both Cuddyer and Granderson are mediocre to poor fielders (Granderson’s weak arm is a major issue).
Braun, however, is also a mediocre defender, so I agree that trading for him wouldn’t be the right move.
davbee
Braun is about an average fielder, but has a great arm.
VitaminCM
Mets fan here – they have the worst offensive outfield in the history of baseball. It’s painfully bad.
MB923
There are 5 teams whose OF have been less productive on offense than the Mets in wRC+ – Red Sox, White Sox, Twins, Phillies and Reds.
VitaminCM
Wow, I’d hate to have to watch that every night.
paqza
Lol. Hilarious.
johnbrooks
Fans could care less about PEDs if players produce. Cruz with Baltimore, ARod in the Bronx. Nor do I really care as long as they produce.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Cruz was different deal.
He took his suspension like a man, did the time and did not complain or accuse anyone .
That is why I took a glasnost approach and wanted the O’s to sign him.
Braun impugned a person’s character. So in this case I care and frown upon that sort of thing as well.
Just say no to Ryan Braun.
User 4245925809
Ditto Alex Rodriquez, Melky Cabrerra and others. Different cases with others who have paperwork that were caught red handed, then blamed others for them being caught and then publicly cried and cried and the guys, like Cruz who took the punishment like a man and remained silent.
Very good point Lefty.
RazorShines
Marlon Byrd and Bartolo Colon…. We love the big guy and we all loved Byrd for the better part of 2013
VitaminCM
I’m a Mets fan and their outfield is anything but fine. It’s horrific. Three bad hitters and 2 bad fielders.
MB923
Cuddyer has a .726 OPS and 102 OPS+. Not great, but I wouldn’t say it’s bad.
ezrider
Switch Gomez with Braun and we’re talking.
SemihAutomatic
Too bad the Mets wouldn’t mortgage their future for two guys who wouldn’t even put them over the top.
ezrider
No we wouldn’t and yes they would.
paqza
It’s a terrible proposal. Own up to how bad it is. Lagares is cost-controlled for several years. Gómez is a free agent at the end of next year. I want to win this year and over the next several.
paqza
The Brewers would be but it’s completely impossible to defend including Lagares in the trade.
RazorShines
Mets would have to take that Braun contract to make that happen… Remember their all prospects and Braun still is a solid player and multiple All Star and Segura is an All Star too, controllable and young.
SemihAutomatic
LOL. Ridiculous. Keep dreaming.
skippy22j
plus they have a catcher. he is just injured now and he is a pretty good one too.
Bill 22
brewers would never do it
Stryker218
Giving away WAY too much there
Sleeper
Unless this involves the Mets moving one of their more premium SP options for something to give the offense life, I don’t see the match as they’ve both got arms that seem to be very plausibly available.
Justin Timberpond
I said it yesterday, if the Mets want to win this year AND next year, they need to man up…
Braun, Gomez, Aramis Ramirez (3rd now, DH in the world series…), and Segura for Degrom/Syndergaard/Matz (1 of the 3), Montero, 1 more above average prospect (Nimmo?) and 1 or 2 more average or below average prospects and we’ll take Niese’s contract and Gee too.
Braun, Gomez, Ramirez, Segura for Degrom/Syndergaard/Matz, Montero, Nimmo, 1 more prospect, Niese, Gee.
Mark D
and what becomes of Granderson, Cuddyer & Lagares?
Justin Timberpond
Lagares in CF, Gomez in LF or RF and Braun in LF or RF. Cuddyer and Grandy to the bench seeing as they are terrible. Cuddyer could play 1st against some lefties too…. Grandy play some outfield against righties when those 3 need time off and a good late inning lefty off the bench
Mark D
That’s an expensive bench…teams don’t do that.
Justin Timberpond
I’ll give you that, it’s very true. But it all makes too much sense. Throw Grandy or Cuddyer in the trade and send 1 to the Brewers? That’d help the money situation..
davbee
The Brewers are rebuilding. They have no interest in the Mets expensive dreck.
Justin Timberpond
But if taking a Niese, Granderson contract means a Matz, Nimmo, Montero…? They would and should do that. Rebuilding doesn’t take 1 year. We’d have them for 2 years and then they’d be off the books.
davbee
The Mets aren’t going to trade Nimmo, Matz or Montero. They’re going to trade Gee or NIese.
Justin Timberpond
If it’s only Aramis for Niese, I agree. If they want anything good, they’ll need to give up some talent…
Just depends on what you want to do, do you you only want Aramis and be terrible still or do you want to actually win games?
notagiantsfan
The Brewers are the worst team in baseball. A .500 record isn’t a possibility. Unless Niese is the second coming of Cy Young, he’s not turning this season around. I think they’re committed to terrible this year.
Justin Timberpond
What?
Ed 11
We don’t want the Met’s garbage that you can get for free on waivers.
DrRamblings
He can pitch a game or two over .500 with a halfway decent lineup…better than most #4 / #5 out there right now.
notagiantsfan
Probably 90% of the Brewers Minor League Starting Pitching project to be a 4th or 5th starter/ or bullpen types. They’ve been running out minor league starters on the 40-Man, for the last three turns through…. They’re cheaper, too.
davbee
Actually, the Phillies are the worst team in baseball.
paqza
The Phillies have a better farm system and deep pockets. The Brewers have no farm and no money.
davbee
That’s not the question. On this day, the Phillies are the worst team in baseball.
paqza
Worst team can also mean worst organization.
paqza
They aren’t trading Matz but of course they’d consider moving Montero and Nimmo. Those two guys project as average Major Leaguers but neither has Major League success, both are injured, and the team has better prospects at their positions (Conforto, Thor, Matz, etc.).
paqza
They would certainly consider trading Nimmo/Montero but both those guys are on the DL.
Ed 11
I was just thinking the same thing.But your talking to New York fans.
There’s just something about them that make you wonder if they think the rest of the world is stupid.
Tko11
That is pretty over the top. All I see is Niese or Gee for Ramirez
Mark D
Yeah that’s more than likely what happens.
Sleeper
But why would MIL want Niese or Gee? It makes sense for the Mets, not so much for the Brewers.
Chris Koch
To get rid of Aramis Ramirez…Hernan Perez’ claim may be the sign of looking for a 3b on the rest of the season
Sleeper
Is it really a situation where they’re desperate to get rid of him though? Mets have little leverage in that deal as they need to clear some rotation space, and the Brewers really don’t need either of those guys. I don’t see where either of those arms fits in with a team that’s looking like a strong rebuild candidate. Very odd suggestions.
Chris Koch
Ramirez is being paid 14mil on a lost cause team. Salary dump. I cant see them taking on Niese’s contract. But Gee? He can finish the year as the team’s #5 starter. Non tender next year. Team saves 5-6mil over the contract of Gee’s to Ramirez. Still never know what other SPs get traded from Milw, Gee gives them an arm to fill in Innings through September.
Sleeper
If it’s a salary dump, I also see a problem because of the Mets ownership’s lack of will/capability to spend much, if any, money. I’d be really surprised to see them capable of taking on Ramirez’ contract. There’s a few layers to these talks that just don’t make a whole lot of sense.
Chris Koch
Yeah, I’ve wondered that too. but 6mil would easily be recouped if the Team hosted a playoff series.
Tko11
I dont think it even makes sense for the Mets but its what I think happens.
Sleeper
Yeah, Ramirez isn’t lighting it up or anything this year anyhow, so I guess it wouldn’t make sense for the Mets beyond opening up a rotation spot, and adding a veteran option an insurance for Wright, which is more than what it makes for the Brewers. I guess this latest update pretty much negates a lot of the speculation of this particular deal, though, so who knows what actually happens, if anything
Mark D
“Its all makes too much sense” – baseball NEVER makes ANY sense, so you might need to temper your expectations there…
Justin Timberpond
Very true
DrRamblings
…except the Yankees. They are better this year, but prior years…lol.
paqza
Let’s be serious. If the Mets could get Braun and Gomez, or Reddick for that matter, they would find a place to play him. The front office’s job is not to keep Grandy and Cuddy happy; it’s winning baseball games.
Mark D
I am serious: the Mets are absolutely not releasing Grandy or Cuddyer in 2015.
paqza
Who said anything about releasing them? They’d platoon and come off the bench.
paqza
Who said release? Platoon the two. Keep up.
Michael Gallo
Why not a three trade between the Indians, Bluejays and Mets-where we could get Joey Bats, Cleveland Granderson and the Jays some pitching?
Grizzy
The Jays aren’t trading Bautista, that’s a team that intends to contend and unless they really tank, they should be in the AL East mix.
Michael Gallo
They cannot contend unless they get more pitching. If they made the playoffs, they would probably get bounced in the first round. Joey Bats has a club option for 14 million next year….he could be on the move.
Thelowdown
Drugs are bad… lol NO WAY Cuddy and Grandy ride the pine… Please try to be real here…
paqza
Yes, let’s be real. Of course the Mets would have no problem platooning Grandy and Cuddyer if they could get Bautista.
Thelowdown
They won’t be platooning 2 guys making over 30mil a year combined…
paqza
You’re looking at it wrong. I’m not saying that the team should do it. I’m saying the team would have no problem platooning these guys if they could get a strong offensive outfielder.
Konig8379
Why would the brewers include Gomez in the trade.? He would be worth more in separate trade
Justin Timberpond
Might be true..
Konig8379
It’s 100% true.
Justin Timberpond
Your opinion..
Grizzy
-Out of the 3 pitchers you named, I think Syndergaard would be my choice (Matz if you don’t buy into needing to have a lefty starter). DeGrom should not be traded.
-I like the idea of them getting Ramirez, even if the team themselves don’t. I have have a hunch that Ramirez would be happy to be a role player if the team is winning
-I don’t mind the idea of getting Segura as a transitional piece (if Rosario turns out to be worth the attention.
-I don’t think they’d get Gomez AND Braun for the return you suggested: I’d rather have Gomez hands down. Picking up one or the other would create less of a problem as far as negotiating the obstacle of Granderson and Cuddyer, two largely untradeable players who are unlikely to be happy as bench players
Pei Kang
that’s ridiculous, the bench would be too expensive, and there’s no way the Mets are mortgaging their entire rotation for that package. No way both DeGrom AND Syndergaard/Matz going in the same deal or at all.
Justin Timberpond
Thats not what Isaid at all
Pei Kang
okay, I misread it-that was poorly paragraphed. But DeGrom isn’t going anywhere, and most likely neither is Thor. I’d say the only possible guy is Matz + Montero and others like that.
Justin Timberpond
Which is what I said
Clint J Gritt
I do not mean to insult you but there is no way in the world you get those four for double what you are suggesting. Braun and Gomez are two of the best veteran contracts in baseball and young under contract quality SS are perhaps the most sought after assets in the game today.
Justin Timberpond
I’m a Brewers fan and would be happy if the Brewers did that
Yuhknopaboutwapt
Insult to the Brewers? That’s an insult to the Mets. Half of those names on that list, the Brewers shouldn’t even be getting in a trade. I can tell you all are Brewers fans. I don’t care if Gomez Braun or Segura is on that list. The Mets should give players in their farm hand a shot — all that need are guys to put the bat on the ball. No need waste away assets in this trade unless it’s for Ramirez who would be less expensive.
atsteeth
Not trading Degrom or Matz for sure… Need at least one lefty and if he is the second coming of Randy..then i would not trade him. DeGrom has already proven that he is a #1 starter and going nowhere.. If you are trading DeGrom then the next word has to be Trout
paqza
I understand that trade from the Mets’ perspective but don’t understand it from the Brewers’ side. The Brewers would be better off sending Segura, Braun, and Gómez to different teams in order to maximize their returns. Each of those guys – Segura, Braun, and Gómez – could be bringing back a top 50 and a top 100 type prospect. Each one.
Justin Timberpond
Good point
Mark D
In 158 career games, WAR has Flores with a very good 10.2 defensive score. Why does UZR love him so much but the Mets hate him so much?
In 381 career games, WAR has Segura with a 4.3 defensive score.
davbee
Segura WAR 1.1, Flores 0.2. Even with the defensive metrics, Flores is barely above replacement level.
JordanSwingman
I see Flores improving next year offensively. He is 23-24, getting his first shot full time in the big leagues. His plate discipline will (hopefully) start to improve and increase his WAR. Flores also brings more power than Segura, and with growth Flores could become a legit power threat. I’d rather stick with Flores.
notagiantsfan
I like Segura, I think he CAN hit, eventually….even if you take out most of last season (after the loss of his infant son, and getting smacked on the head with a bat in the on deck circle), and the one terrific 1st half that nabbed him an All-Star spot….I question his upside offensively.
Mark D
Huh? Fangraphs says Flores is 0.7 WAR and Segura 0.5. Where are you getting your info from???
Steve Adams
There are multiple versions of WAR. Fangraphs’ uses UZR, which thinks Flores has been ok. Baseball-Reference’s is based on Defensive Runs Saved and Total Zone Rating, which think Flores is quite a bit below average.
Scouts have been questioning Flores’ glove at shortstop for quite some time.
Mark D
Well scouts said Billy Burns had 20 power but he’s got 2 homers this year so…
davbee
Baseball reference.
Grizzy
I think it’s Mets FANS more than the Mets.
DrRamblings
Mets’ fans are irrational when it comes to Flores. He is in the middle of the pack for WAR. Giving up quality prospects to “upgrade” his position…not worth it.
JordanSwingman
I doubt the Mets are looking for a “big” trade. In fact, I don’t think they are looking to target Segura at all. Flores is good enough up the middle that bringing in any other middle infield would just create clutter.
I’d be fine with swapping Gee/Niese (preferably Niese) for Ramirez. Similar amount of money. Mets get a veteran/gap filler, Milwaukee gets a year and a half of Niese.
For Braun, I think with his injury problems (thumb issues are troubling) he isn’t worth as much as Milwaukee fans might think he is. Montero and one of the young prospects would probably be fair, as well as eating a chunk of his contract. Gomez is worth a Matz, but I don’t feel like Sandy would want to give up THAT much for anyone.
oh Hal
I doubt there’s a big trade as well. I don’t really see the need for Niese or Gee unless its part of another move.
Braun’s thumb seems pretty well taken care of. I’m sure they wouldn’t bother with a trade where Montero was anything but a throw in.
I wouldn’t be surprised if its for the waiver claim guy from the tigers for some A ball prospect.
Eric Treuden
As a diehard Brewers fan who loves every player on our team, I’d say a trade of Ramirez to the Mets is a must. If we need to add Segura in the deal to get Montero and/or Plawecki, so be it
paqza
Ramírez would be an expensive downgrade over Flores, Tejada, and Murphy. We’ve got plenty of 3Bs better than the expensive shell of Aramis Ramírez. The only guys of interest on the Brewers would be Will Smith and Carlos Gómez, and maybe Braun.
davbee
Ramirez in a deal for Niese or Gee, the Brewers listen. Segura for either of those pitchers, no way.
Sleeper
Value wise, it’d make some sense, but I don’t see MIL wanting Niese or Gee without there being a larger deal in the works as it doesn’t make sense from an organizational standpoint.
Eric Treuden
We have Garza and Lohse already, highly doubt we’re looking to add anymore mediocre starters
Sleeper
That’s what I’m getting at, and both of those guys seem like likely trade candidates as is. That’s why unless there’s a much larger deal in the works, this talk is a bit confusing.
Eric Treuden
Oh sorry, my comment was supposed to be aimed at davbee. Haha
Chris Koch
We do need a mediocre starter if the Brewers trade Lohse/Garza and say find a trade to take Fiers/Peralta out of nowhere.
Eric Treuden
Fair enough, you make a good point
mustache101
Why would they trade willy???? They need pitching and he’s not even eligible for arbitration think about it… And he’s on the dl lay off the mlb the show…
Justin Timberpond
Im sorry Chris Koch but everything youve said in this thread, i disagree with. Strongly disagree with.
Chris Koch
Read the update. Seems Im on what was being discussed. The Mets want to part with Niese for Ramirez but the Brewers don’t want that contract. They’ll take Gee and his contract but now Ramirez’s salary is a problem.
mustache101
Gee makes no sense for miwaukee…. You just argued to trade willy who is not arb eligible your argument was he won’t be there when we compete but yet you want to add gee lol he’s in arb pot meet kettle
Chris Koch
There’s Future and Current. You don’t apparently differentiate between the two? Ramirez has 0 value. None. Repeat. NONE.
He’s a salary dump. Have you followed the Brewers Rotation this season? Lohse(trade candidate/salary dump/waiver wire) Garza(trade candidate/oft injured starter) Peralta-fine/but on DL, Fiers-never made 185IP in a season, and Nelson-fine.
Sure they’ve gotten good starts from some AA/AAA guys, but those guys I don’t believe have pitched 185IP+ themselves. How will they be going through September?
In comes Gee. He provides a Crutch for the rest of the season while shedding 5-6million of Ramirez’s 0 Value Contract.
Then Guess what? 2015 offseason? You non-tender Gee a contract…he’s waived.
But I guess in your world, Lohse/Garza/Peralta/Fiers/Nelson will all pitch through the remainder of the season healthy that Milw doesn’t need to prepare for “Selling” or injury risks having a 6th proven Starter to make it through the season while saving 5-6million dollars of a 0 Value Ramirez?
paqza
The Mets don’t want Ramírez, though. There’s no traction in talks because Ramírez is bad and expensive, while the Mets have three superior 3B options available to them within the organization.
Chris Koch
so what was the point in mentioning in THIS article a trade for Ramirez? or the article some days before of Mets scouts in MN for Segura/Ramirez.
Chris Koch
Value in return would be why. I’m not saying they must do it. I’m suggesting by acquiring Gee it allows that option to be open. If Gomez and Lucroy are going to be traded, what’s the reality the Brewers are Playoff contenders through Peralta’s controlled years?
And at the same time, How long can he keep putting up 4+Fips and maintain having strong value? He’s certainly stalled in his ability, the longer that lasts the reality becomes, he’s only capable of a 4+Fip and a 3.8ish ERA that comes with it.
mustache101
you want willy traded in what world does that make sense… He’s not even arb eligable…..why don’t we trade Nelson also by your standards heck lets trade the farm players because we can…. Thank god you don’t run the team willy isn’t gong anywhere maybe we shop Orlando Arcia by your standards
mustache101
Don’t forget fan is short for fanatic… Put down mlb the show and breathe
Chris Koch
Now you’re making me sound crazy. Let’s say the Dodgers called and said we’ll give you Jose De Leon, Alex Verdugo and Austin Barnes for Wily Peralta. when say trade talks stalled on Lohse/Garza due to their performance?
You’ve committed to saying no to that in your mind. I would have at least asked what kind of offer would you put up for Wily.
It’s What ifs. If that trade were to happen, who takes over Wily’s spot in the rotation?
mustache101
Your making yourself sound crazy bud Im Brewers fan we root for the same team you just value differnt then I do teams are not lining up for braun his new contract hits next year look at the numbers they don’t lie
Chris Koch
To me, an 850+OPS OF with 30+HR/100+RBI is easily worth 16mil in FA money. You can’t even make a QO for less than that this offseason.
Are teams lining up? You dont know that, I don’t know that. I don’t believe they are lining up because Braun has to be cautiously evaluated with his future. This year is going to show off how his thumb handles this new procedure he’s had. Braun’s trade value is really an offseason figured out and not an in season trade this season.
If I were Melvin, I’d not be selling him off cheap in any cost and that asking price should be keeping the rumors simmered down.
But wait til this offseason for the rumors after Braun completes the year with 30/100+ numbers above .850OPS.
mustache101
Do you follow baseball??? The mets are so deep in starters there running a 6 man rotation… They have a surplus
Eric Treuden
I do follow baseball thank you very much. Closely, too. I understand that the mets have a surplus, that doesn’t make the Brewers anymore interested in Gee or Niese, who are both so-so pitchers.
paqza
Well said.
mustache101
Agree the crew will be looking for a pre arb pitcher
Sleeper
The problem with that is Ramirez value isn’t through the roof right now, so the chances of getting a high upside, controllable arm isn’t very good. Which is why,on top of the Met’s financial restraints, I think unless they set up a blockbuster, these talks probably don’t go very far.
mustache101
I’m a Brewers fan and I’m thinking a full salary dump with Ramirez and then segura brings back a young controlled pitcher
davbee
Segura makes hardly anything and is cost controlled for another few years. Makes no sense to “dump” him.
mustache101
I agree that’s why he holds value but milwaukee is deep in ss so it makes sense to move him also Orlando Arcia is a top 30,mlb prospect not saying they will move segura but they are set at that position so it makes some sense
DrRamblings
The mets have Rosario who is 19 and killing it in the minors. He will be the SS come ’17, so cost-controlled guy…maybe worth it…maybe not. Flores can bridge that gap.
paqza
Don’t forget Cecchini.
Eric Treuden
Also, to everyone saying its a possibility, Braun will not be dealt. Not only is his contract too much, but Melvin (as insane and crappy as he is), will not give him up unless Matz or Syndergaard is coming back to Milwaukee, and I simply don’t see that happening.
Justin Timberpond
What has Melvin done that is insane and Crappy?
Chris Koch
He brought back Ramirez for this season paying an added 10mil to do so..14mil overall
Justin Timberpond
Is that all?
Chris Koch
There’s more. extending Weeks/Hart vs trading them. Never trading Fielder when he could of. Giving up Brett Lawrie for Marcum. The Lohse contract. The Suppan contract. Wolf. Who was that PED closer/ Pretty much anything he’s paid more than 10million to in a season has been awful results. Garza is already proving that some more.
Justin Timberpond
Trade fielder when the were in playoffs races????! The Lawrie thing I agree. That was terrible. So bad. Lohse i liked. Suppan, Wolf and Garza I agree too. But those thing I dont think make him insane and crappy. All GMs make some bad calls. All GMs must be crappy and insane then. (besides Theo Epstein, that guys the best)
Chris Koch
They certainly weren’t extending him. He left. They got what? a 2nd rd comp pick for him. That I’m sure the team blew.
The decision to keep Fielder led to the team trading the Farm for that 1 year’s worth of a Playoff run. Trade Fielder, still have Lawrie/Cain/Escobar/Odorizzi/ and Montgomery plus the individuals returned for Fielder. How’s the Brewer’s franchise look then?
mustache101
They got within a game of the series!!! By your logic the dodgers should prob trade everyone and the twins and Astros should sell……
Chris Koch
96 wins to 83 to 74. One Shot. Pretty bad in my opinion when things were lined up so well to cycle talent. Melvin didn’t cycle the Fielder/Weeks/Hart talents and gave away all that talent in the minors for that 1 season’s run.
He also replaced the talent like Lawrie’s with Ramirez by paying him this expensive contract. Rather than be developing Ororizzi, the team gets to sign Lohse/Garza for 23.5mil vs less than 1mil. It’s a huge snowball of effects from that decision. I’d like to think the team could be an 80+ win quality team beginning the year after Fielder left. As the prospects improved and all that money used to replace their loss instead filling the holes the team had at that moment.
mustache101
You speak like lawrie is a stud come on…
mustache101
Jake had to be traded to get grienke wow… You tell m what you would have gave for Grienke… I’m sure they wouldn’t take garbage… Hey I’ll give you junk and you give me grienke
Chris Koch
Easy to say that now. Lawrie had more WAR than Marcum did in 2011 in his 43games. That was after posting a 1.0+OPS in AAA prior to being called up. Only Joey Gallo of current 3b top 10 prospects can say that. Would you trade Joey Gallo for Shawn Marcum?
oh Hal
The owner is rumored to have done the Garza and Lohse deals. He was also rumored to be involved with Suppan. What’s your plan if you think the worst of the terrible moves were done by the owner?
mustache101
Wow your harsh on doug….. First Braun he didn’t know…marcum was a solid starter when traded for and lawrie was upset with the organization he had toget value for him… The fielder issue he couldn’t deal him heck the crew where buyers with him hindsight is 20/20 I bet you would have been upset if he traded fielder during a penant race…. I respect your thoughts but they make no sense
Chris Koch
Braun’s contract I didn’t say was bad, I think its a big plus, still.
Rather than Trade for Marcum. Trade for Grienke in that offseason before that playoff run. Melvin should have traded Fielder. He didn’t wait long to make his decision as he traded Lawrie probably the 2nd day of the Winter Meetings. Cementing all of the unfortunate process/mess the Franchise sits at now.
Many GMs were quoted saying they had no clue Lawrie was even available in trade. Melvin most likely lost big on what he could have got back for Lawrie in trade by just taking Marcum.
Rather than spend a week working on trading Fielder, he immediately forced the team in to a 1year Win it all instead with that trade.
Justin Timberpond
^Laughable
mustache101
I’m laughable or I’m guessing the guy above me is
Justin Timberpond
Chris Koch
mustache101
Where did you read that?? Lawrie was openly shopped the value was low because he wanted out every team knew they had to move him that was the best offer… Lawrie was a cry baby move me off catcher i demand it ok the Brewers did he still cried wolf they moved him to second he complained moved him to third he still complained he didn’t want to be in Milwaukee… And I could argue we got more out of marcum/aramiz as lawrie lives on the dl and really hasn’t proved consistency
Chris Koch
It was pretty much out there not long after the trade. GMs saying they didn’t know Lawrie was remotely available in trade. Melvin never gave them a voice to make an offer.
mustache101
Your wrong there respectively the post below says it all lawrie killed his value on his own read his Twitter he wanted out your ideal outcome is we hold on to him don’t get marcum and just have a player that don’t want to be there… You honestly don’t think he was shopped!?? You over rate his value did it ever occur to you that most gms didn’t want to deal with his attitude… I’m not a scout there all indivual players but I know many scouts and before that trade was made they ALL told me lawrie wanted out and it was vocal in the mlb community… If you don’t think doug shopped it your wrong he had no value… And interesting you bring him up he has been an ir stamp how come u don’t complain about Matt Laporte how could he trade him for cc ohh the sky is falling… Lawrie isn’t very different he’s still in the majors but hasn’t proved donkey
Chris Koch
I didn’t go back that far is all.
He was shopped but it wasn’t told to all the GMs.
I don’t know how many GMs knew Lawrie was available, but it wasn’t 29 of them. It also wasn’t just 1 of them.
mustache101
And u think brauns contract is a plus… Ouch…… Wish you where a gm to unload on
Chris Koch
Um Yeah, he’s currently projected for 35HRs and 108RBI with 16SB. Guess that is worthless.
mustache101
Why don’t you inform me of all the teams lining up for Braun…. I’m waiting…. Don’t forget next year his salary goes to 20 mil a year
Chris Koch
Mis-informed from another State you must be. Braun Never makes more than 16mil in ANY season. It’s 3 and 4mil deferred payments after his contract ends.
And at this point, Only Fans clamoring for Braun because they love his Bat compared to what they have currently has that trade idea floating around. Braun rightly so, is likely not in any trade discussions he and Lucroy and Segura seem to be untouchable at the moment.
Braun’s been flashing a .900+OPS ability with the bat for weeks now. You don’t trade that player away for peanuts on the dollar because what he did last season vs anything he’s done in his career previously, which is why he got that contract in the first place.
Dock_Elvis
They do need tickets sales…I’ve never been in a park that nickeled and dimed and sold as much beer as Miller Park. I’m not trashing them…my observation, and I’ve been in every one but Seattle and DC
Novak
You’re faulting Doug for not trading top talent when they had a very good chance of finally getting to the world series. Brett Lawrie constantly clashed with the organization, and his trade for Marcum is what caused Greinke to agree to come to Milwaukee. Wolf was quite valuable two years and tanked the final year, similar to Lohse. You’re basically criticizing Melvin for delivering the best season in Brewer history since 1982…
Garza was good last year and is only 1/3 of the way through this season. Hardly a disaster, considering he signed for well below market value.
willi
The Hebrew Hammer would be an BIG in the New York Jewish Community and it just might add some Juice to his Bat. A 20 Hr and 85 RBIs is better than any outfielders the Mets have !
Chris March
Alexei Ramirez, Jose Quintana & Conor Gillaspie for Noah Syndergaard, Kevin Plawecki & Blake Taylor.
Ramirez is what they need, plus he has one more year on his contract. Quintana is underrated and just signed a team friendly contract. Gillaspie fills in at 3B until Wright comes back.
Syndergaard is a young, right handed, MLB ready pitcher the Sox need. Sale/Syndergaard/Rodon/Fulmer/? would be a great rotation to have starting in 2017. Plawecki in Chicago would mean the end for either Flowers or Soto. Taylor could be that 5th starter in 2018.
Justin Timberpond
L.O.L
Mark D
Yeah, you can go ahead and remove the Quintana & Syndergaard parts of that trade and then you may have something.
paqza
Not really. Flores is better than Alexei Ramírez; why would the Mets want to downgrade?
Mark D
Because there’s this thing called depth?
paqza
Tejada’s better than 2015 Alexei Ramírez. Wilfredo Tovar is probably better than 2015 Alexei Ramírez. Gavin Cecchini is certainly better than 2015 Alexei Ramírez. Why would the Mets want someone who represents a downgrade over our Major League SS, our Major League backup SS, our AAA SS, and our AA SS?
paqza
You want to give up a top catching prospect and a 2nd rounder for a backup SS worse than the Mets’ MLB SS, MLB backup SS, AAA SS, and AA SS. That’s really not defendable at all.
TN
That’s a horrible trade. Why would the Mets want aging Alexei Ramirez with no power (who’s also not very good anymore) and inconsistent Quintana for young upside talent like Syndergaard and Plawecki. These homer trades get more and more ridiculous.
Dock_Elvis
Wrong…that’s an excellent trade and Rick Hahn makes Billy Beane soil himself in jealousy at Hahn’s stellar GM skills..lol
Dock_Elvis
I’d actually like to see the Rockies work something out for Plawecki. I’m not going to get into the whole Tulo extravaganza…but the Rockies could really use a top young catcher.
Ray Ray
The Rockies are pretty strong at catcher in the minors led by Tom Murphy. Plus Nick Hundley has been playing very well this season. I could see them possibly making a play for Niese and/or Gee though.
paqza
Hold on a second. You want the Mets to downgrade from Flores to Alexei Ramírez, downgrade from Syndergaard to José Quintana, and then throw in Conor Gillaspie? I can’t even begin to describe how impossibly unrealistic that is. Go back to the drawing board, mate. That’s horrific.
Syndergaard is a similar prospect to Rodon. This is pretty much like me asking Rodon for Ruben Tejada and Jon Niese.
Chris Koch
I’ve been saying this for awhile. It’ll be Gee for Aramis Ramirez.
Tko11
a .213/.257 hitter will really help them
Chris Koch
Aramis is a notoriously slow starter with the bat. He had over an .800OPS last season and has been that type of batter for his long career. You’re not going to get that kind of potential top 12 3b bat for Dillon Gee except trading for Ramirez.
Gautham Pawnday
Are you a Brewers fan? Just curious because I was wondering if you would think a Gee for Ramirez would be a fair trade. I usually only hear from Mets fans, and it would be nice to get another fan’s perspective.
Chris Koch
Yeah Brewer Fan. Peralta is on the DL. Trading Ramirez is strictly a salary dump. I wouldn’t be happy with Gee, but for salary relief and getting a SP to help the team get through the season would be good for the cause. Garza and Fiers aren’t exactly the clean bill’s of health for a record on their side. It’d be amazing to get both for 33 Starts on the season. Gee is an insurance
mustache101
I’m a realistic Brewers fan And gee doesn’t fit a need think high a with potential and full options and control a non 40 player with a high ceiling and low floor a helwig type player
Gautham Pawnday
Hmmm…yeah I don’t think a deal gets done in that case. The players who might match that description are Molina or Meisner. I don’t think Alderson would trade them for a rental unless it’s for a player like Zobrist, and even then I am not sure.
paqza
You’re a huge Brewers’ homer. Tejada, Flores, and Murphy are all better options at 3B than Ramírez at this point in his career, and the Mets don’t have to trade anybody to use them. I’d be perfectly fine with sending you Gee or Niese for Smith, though.
Chris Koch
I can only agree on Flores being a better 3b option, but now someone has to play SS and that option with Flores playing 3b is far worse than Ramirez. Murphy is and always has been strictly a 2b. He also happens to be on the DL…great option. Tejada is a joke. AAAA utility player at best if Wright were healthy Tejada would be waived. Smith is worth more than both Gee/Niese combined with the Mets paying 95% of their contracts. There’s a reason both of them are still on the Mets. Nobody wants their talentless/expensive selves.
DrRamblings
Uhg..he is that bad?
willi
No, He finished !
oh Hal
Is it just reading statistics that leads to the comment about Segura’s defense? Watching him every day, he excels in pretty much everything.
canikickit
Adam Rubin says that the Mets are NOT interested in Ramirez. In this situation, Segura & Gomez should be on the Mets wish list.
Tommets
I want Segura. Niese/Gee and Montero? Maybe add Fulmer?
Mark D
Flores is better than Segura. Why do you want to downgrade?
Tommets
Not at all at SS. Flores can play 2B, and Murphy can play 3B.
paqza
What about Dilson Herrera, then? I would rather have Herrera at 2B with Flo at SS and Murphy at 3B than what you suggest.
Sleeper
The recent update puts things in a lot more realistic perspective, I was curious how exactly those talks went because the original post left room for a lot of speculation and/or head-scratching. So much for the blockbuster talk!
Rob Lucci
Mets need to go back in time and bring back 2005-2008 David Wright back with them.
Dock_Elvis
Why stop the Delorian there? Why not go back to 86 and bring that whole team? That’d be a riot with Doc and Straw.
TimeisIllmatic
Nope, Alex Guerrero is going no where.
Montu Masters
Would love him to go somewhere that he can play every day…..Mattingly isn’t going to do that….
Cam
Somehow, even Alberto Callapso is ahead of him in Mattingly’s pecking order.
TimeisIllmatic
Yeah, I really don’t know why he doesn’t play everyday. Turner needs to stick to being a utility guy, not getting a whole lot of PT.
ezrider
If we walk away with Ramirez and not much else i may walk directly to Citi field and vomit on the Shea bridge. There has got to be a better option or two.
Dock_Elvis
Be careful not to slip on all the other Mets fan vomit
paqza
Yeah, it’s tough being in first place despite pretty much everything going wrong (~14 guys on DL this year).
Joe McMahon
What else do you expect? Niese and Gee have almost no trade value at all. I’d be shocked if you got something decent. They’d be salary dumps.
GameMusic3
If the Mets chose a Uribe-Gee trade they and the Dodgers would be a lot better off.
paqza
Murphy’s not as good defensively as Uribe at 3B but is at least his equivalent on offense at this point in his career.
Tommets
Was Braun just pulled from the Brewers game?
ezrider
No, No, NOOOOO! Though if it happens it would show a pulse and i may need to stop questioning my owners/FO for a few weeks.
Tommets
it’s what I heard.
Justin Timberpond
YESSSS – Braun pulled from the game with “Dizziness”
Tommets
he’s dizzy because they traded him to the Mets?
Justin Timberpond
Hopefully! I wouldn’t think theyd say yeah we’re pulling him because we’re trading him… still gotta be semi secretive about it!
Tommets
If the Brewers eat up some salary I’m all for it.
Justin Timberpond
What if we take Niese, Gee and Granderson too? haha
Tommets
If you take those three, as a thank you I’d take up all of his salary and give you Harvey.
Justin Timberpond
Deal
Tommets
Dizziness.. you had to tease me like that Braun..
CT Cubs Fan
Cubs will take Thor off your hands, Mets 😉
Rob Lucci
Give us Bryant.
JoeTheSlayer
Anyone that can hit the ball will do. This offense is sad and I’m really loosing hope each day. But, don’t trade the whole future for a little offense.
RazorShines
Untouchables- not counting Wright or Wheeler.. Harvey deGrom Syndergaard Matz, Lagares d’Arnaud, Familia Conforto
Maybe for the right player- Duda Flores Reynolds
Everyone else is fair game, I’d also stick with Murphy for now cause he’s our 3B for now and when he walks he may net a pick
DrRamblings
Reynolds…meh, I’d need to see more. Right now I’d swap him for Rosario and I’d add Nimmo. There are some other bright spots in the minors who made some great strides this season, but you need to be willing to trade some talent.
paqza
Reynolds has a utility player ceiling. And no, Duda’s not going anywhere right now, unless “for the right player” includes Trout/McCutchen, etc.
frogger6
What I don’t get is why the last place brewers who have announced they are going into rebuilding mode would want to acquire a 28 year old or 29 year old pitchers who aren’t any better than the ones they already have?
Ramirez for a mid level prospect makes a lot more sense.
Also add to the block:
Lohse
Garza
Segura or sardinas
Gennett
Lind
Krod
Fiers
Gomez
Warboss74
Ramirez’ salary is why they would take on Niese or Gee. They’re not getting a prospect worth anything for Ramirez and they’d still eat a majority of the contract.
frogger6
Doesn’t make sense for a rebuilding team.
Warboss74
It does if it leads to more salary relief. Should a Niese/Gee be pitching well going into next year’s trade deadline, you could net a decent prospect that you won’t get for Ramirez.
frogger6
He’s a career .285 hitter averaging 29 homers per year. He’s off to a slow start but his numbers last year weren’t bad.
I sure he will finish with respectable numbers this year as well.
There’s no reason we can’t get a decent minor leaguer for him.
Warboss74
He’s been declining for a few years, though, and there’s a good chance he’s done. The important thing to remember is he’s owed $8.8 M for the remainder of the season. That’s a lot to take on in hopes he rebounds to his career norms.
frogger6
Everyone not on steroids declines but look up his numbers not bad last year.
I do think the brewers will be stuck paying a chuck of his salary if they want a youngster back for him though, you’re right.
paqza
It isn’t last year and it isn’t 2009, or whenever it when Aramis was one of the best 3B in the game. The Mets have at least 3 to 4 guys better at offense who can play 3B competently right now.
bobbleheadguru
Price for Niese (LHP, age 28) and Gee (RHP, age 29) and a top 100 prospect would be a win/win deal.
Mets Rotation would be terrifying to opponents with 5 solid starters.
Tigers would trade an ace for two middle rotation guys to keep them in more games and would provide Porcello-like value for multiple years. Tigers could then remain competitive this year AND have a future.
More interesting may be Syndergard, Granderson and either Niese or Gee for Price and Cespedes
Mets really need a bat upgrade. Tigers would then get an top younger and an older pitcher, both under control. Granderson is a downgrade in LF from Cespedes, but he is Left Handed and his bloated contract would be needed to get deal done.
paqza
The Tigers would only trade Price for impact-type guys. You can get players with Gee/Niese upside for pennies in free agency. Look at guys like Aaron Harang, Scott Kazmir, and Bartolo Colón for recent examples.
NatKingCole45
Would love to see the Pirates add Niese or Gee to replace Locke at the back of the rotation.
Keenan Lorenz
I’m all for trading Niese and Gee and some other good but not great pieces but those of you that are suggesting we offer any of our stud pitchers are insane. Harvey, Degrom, Syndergaard and Matz are untouchable. With those four guys pitching (and don’t forget Wheeler) for the Mets the next 5+ seasons, we’re going to be very competitive, even with a mediocre offense. And the offense is going to get better as young guys like Flores, D’Arnaud, Herrera and Lagares get more experience against big league pitching. Flores is on pace to hit 20 home runs this year. If he can get his average up to something in the area of .275, we’re talking about an all-star SS, at least offensively. And his defense has been much better lately. Add Duda and Murphy to that equation and you’ve got a nice offensive infield. And if Wright gets healthy, then we’ve really got something. Grandy and Cuddy may have been questionable signings but they’ll produce enough to keep us in games. Lagares is dealing with health issues right now but he’s the best defensive center fielder in baseball. I hope the Mets are trying to trade Niese and Gee for minor league talent that can help the team in 2016 or 2017. Some outfield speed would be nice. Mets are 23rd in the league in SB. Would be nice to add someone that can swipe a bag here and there. Help us manufacture runs in the low scoring games we are frequently involved in.
DrRamblings
I agree w. everything except Murphy, who is gone after this yr. As long as he can come back from injury play decently well, they should extend him a QO, which he should turn down. I know it is a risk…but I think worthwhile given the contracts we saw this past off season.
paqza
I dunno, man. If we could swing a three way deal moving some pitching (Harvey, Montero, +) for something like a Baez/Reddick package, we should definitely consider getting creative.
Better
Han Ram, Napoli, Panda for any SP better than what the BoSox have now would be fine by me…