The Braves are trying to trade for upgrades in what has been a shaky bullpen, reports David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (via Twitter), but the team is reluctant to part with young talent or pay significant money in order to make it happen.
Clearly, that hesitance will make it rather difficult to procure a meaningful upgrade by way of trade. The Braves’ farm system has improved rapidly over the past eight months thanks in large part to a strong offseason rebuilding effort from new president of baseball operations John Hart. It’s logical that Hart, having only recently collected so much minor league talent, would be loath to part with meaningful future assets when his goal has seemingly been to build a sustainable core for the future as opposed to putting an immediate contender on the field.
Nevertheless, the Braves are just one game under .500 after today’s loss to the Diamondbacks — a loss, mind you, that was incurred when the bullpen failed to protect a two-run lead over the game’s final three innings. With a collective bullpen ERA of 4.71 (worst in the Majors), it’s easy to make the argument that with a more effective relief corps, the Braves could be vying for a share of the NL East division lead. They are, after all, just three games out of first despite having traded Jason Heyward, Justin Upton, Evan Gattis, Craig Kimbrel and David Carpenter this offseason.
Carpenter, for what it’s worth, was designated for assignment by the Yankees just today, making him a plausible target for the Braves to re-acquire if they feel a reunion with pitching coach Roger McDowell can sort out the troubles that he incurred in New York. Carpenter yielded 10 earned runs in 18 2/3 innings with the Yankees and saw his strong K/9 rate nearly halved while his walk rate went in the other direction. He did maintain his velocity, however, and he’s earning a reasonable $1.275MM salary, of which about $864K remains. Relievers Sergio Santos and David Huff are also in DFA limbo, though neither has had any sort of consistent track record in recent years.
If the Braves are simply looking for fresh arms, they could also consider exploring a group of pitchers that have recently opted out of their contracts. Juan Gutierrez, Robert Coello and Dana Eveland all come with varying degrees of MLB experience (Gutierrez and Eveland have significantly more than Coello), and veteran David Aardsma may or may not opt out of his Dodgers contract once the team’s 72-hour window to add him to the 25-man roster expires tomorrow.
Beyond these names, it is admittedly difficult to conjure up realistic possibilities given O’Brien’s stated restrictions. While the Phillies and Brewers are a pair of very likely sellers this summer, the obvious trade candidates on each club — Jonathan Papelbon, Francisco Rodriguez, Jonathan Broxton — all come with considerable financial commitments. Despite the fact that it’s difficult to envision a scenario in which the team can successfully upgrade the bullpen while parting with little value, it’s telling that the team is even thinking in terms of adding assets. Entering the season, most pundits (myself included) pegged the Braves as an eventual seller, but for the time being, that doesn’t seem to be the direction in which they’re headed.
Funny, as they’ve traded away 11 relievers since the end of the 2014 season.
But relievers are easy to replace everyone said…..
Well that seems to be going well. I tried to tell everyone Kimbrel’s value (yes I know he hasn’t done well this year but you can’t say what he would have done if he stayed).
I think if we had kept Kimbrel we’d be sitting at least tied in first place right now.
I was on board with all the trades this offseason, or at least understood them, but I never backed the Kimbrel deal as a good one. As much as I hate to admit it, we kind of made our bed with that one. And for what? To save a few dollars on BJ instead of just DFA’ing him?
Looking at the expected FA class I really don’t even know what they expect to do with their new wealth. There really isn’t anything there other than starting pitchers, but we literally just stock piled the farm with guy supposedly close to ready.
They say they plan to spend big internationally next summer. So that’s what we traded Kimbrel for? So we could spend big on unproven international players? Well done.
The Kimbrel trade got an F in my book when it was first made and it’s still an F. We can revisit in a year when they’ve had a chance to spend the money they saved by moving him but right now the outlook doesn’t look promising.
Strongly disagree. It definitely hurt to lose Kimbrel, and I wish we still had him, although his performance this year has been poor and I don’t think he’d have helped us win many games.
But the trade itself was a masterpiece. Shedding 3 more years of BJ Upton and his contract? That seemed impossible. And yet in return we got a guy in Cameron Maybin who is earning every dollar of his contract and more, and looks to be a valuable piece for the Braves going forward.
We also got some other nice pieces in the trade. As of now, it looks really good to me.
“Shedding 3 more years of BJ Upton and his contract? That seemed impossible.”
What’s been the advantage of this? And honestly we could have traded for Maybin without giving up Kimbrel. We traded Kimbrel to get rid of BJ.
Until they actually spend the money (which I pointed out there’s really no one to spend it on) we basically just forfeited the best reliever baseball.
Keep talking about how he hasn’t been good this year. That’s completely circumstantial though. He never showed any indication of poor performance here. Even in spite of his ERA though (which is clearly all you have looked at), he’s only blown 1 save.
His ERA hasn’t been any worse than Grilli’s, and I think Grilli has been pretty good.
ERA can be deceiving sometimes. Kimbrel has been better than you think.
Adding Kimbrel changes the whole dynamic of our bullpen. Grilli can then pitch the 8th, and Johnson the 7th.
Even though Johnson isn’t ideal for the 7th it’s better than the current format. We lose the bulk of our games in the 6th or 7th inning because we have no one to pitch in it.
We can sit here all day and discuss this. But at the end of the day what has the BJ money brought in? What do you even expect it to bring in? There aren’t position players available. We have more pitching options than rotation spots. So that leaves relievers. We could spend the BJ money we saved on relievers but really all of that could have just been avoided by not trading him and Kimbrel which is better than any reliever we could sign.
Unless they pull off some sort of unforeseeable magic with the money saved it seems like all they’re gonna end up doing is circling back around and eventually using it to add relievers which was only a problem because we made that trade in the first place.
At best we sign a really good reliever with the money and the trade is neither a win or a loss. At worst the reliever isn’t Kimbrel quality and the trade is a loss.
See what they can give the Yanks for Carpenter
Braves have a David Carpenter pitching well in their system. 2 ER in 22 IP for Gwinnett so far. Happy to have Banuelos on board though.
Not the same guy..
Well aware of that.
Meh. Banuelos is on an innings limit as it is, so why not give him a shot after the super-two cutoff? Or maybe the recently promoted Ryan Kelly, who’s been outstanding since becoming a full-time reliever?
2014(A+ and AA): 40 IP, 2.92 ERA, 0.850 WHIP, 2.7 BB/9, 11.0 K/9
2015:(AA and AAA): 22 IP, 0.42 ERA, 0.950 WHIP2.6 BB/9, 8.8 K/9
They better hope he can then immediately transition back to SP next season because he can’t be sent down after being called up.
James Russell has done really well with the Cubs, too. no take backsies.
I’d be curious to see what Aardsma can do with a FB that’s “only” in the 91-3 range now and that super nasty splitter of his vs MLB hitters. He was one of the better closers around for a couple of years, tho granted he was throwing 95-98 then.
Nice to see Hart & Co trying to improve this ball club, even in a retooling year.
What about this:
Giants get:
Chris Johnson
$4-5 million CASH
Braves get:
Hunter Strickland
This would solve a problem for both clubs, with CJ becoming the Giants everyday 3rd baseman over Matt Duffy while occasionally spelling Brandon Belt at 1st base against tough lefties when Posey is catching. The Giants would be getting Chris Johnson for two more years (with a team option for a third) at a total of $11.5 million (after receiving $5 mill from Braves) over those two years.
The Braves would instantly upgrade their bullpen by having Strickland pitch late in games and would finally clear some of Johnson’s salary for the future. Juan Uribe would become the everyday 3rd baseman with Pedro Ciriaco/Kelly Johnson/Phil Gosselin serving as his backups.
Giants would never do that
I have to think they’re in the market for an upgrade over Duffy at 3rd base and highly doubt they could find someone with 10-15 homer potential, .280-.290 average, and for a cost of $6 million per year, which with their current (and future) payroll and some bad contracts they have, could be a cheap option. They also lack someone to play 3rd in their farm system -which is rather bare-, so obtaining someone to play 3rd base for the next 2-3 season for a bullpen arm might be a worthwhile investment.
Just my opinion though and that clearly means nothing.
Yeah but the player you described as a player to replace duffy IS matt duffy. Not to mention strickland is worth more than johnson and the longer he pitches like this the more he’s worth
The Braves have zero leverage in moving Chris Johnson, he’s pretty much a strict platoon player right now making way more than any platoon player should.
Doesn’t help he hasn’t been replacement level since 2013, provides horrible defense and doesn’t walk ever. I’d say the Braves have a better chance releasing him then trading him for any AAA/MLB depth.
Wasn’t there several teams asking about CJ earlier this year? Before injuy?
Never say never with Brian Sabean. He gave up Zach Wheeler for two months of Carlos Beltran.
In all fairness the Giants rotation was stacked and crowded. Plus it was a playoff push. Hindsight is 20/20
Chris Johnson is getting paid $23.5M from 2015-2018 if you include the for 2018 $1M club-option buyout.
He’s been a below average replacement level third baseman since 2013 and that’s largely due to his very below average defense and lack of ability to get on base if he’s not hitting .280. The Braves are more likely going to eat 80-90% of his contract in a trade then do what you’re suggesting.
Ryan Howard has more trade value than Chris Johnson.
2013 is not an eternity ago. We’re one season and two months (one for Johnson) removed from 2013. And $23.5 million over 3 years isn’t a backbreaking contract. If he gets close to his 2013 form for one of those years, still quite possible at age 30, it’s a decent return.
3B is also more a need position than is 1B in the case of Howard.
Paying out $8m a year to a below-replacement level player is indeed backbreaking for most teams.
Teams will look at his 2013 and gamble he’ll return close to that form. Again 2013 is not the distant past.
Thanks Frank Wren
Sabean and Bochy have no interest in advanced metrics, or even in the concept of “replacement level,” so it’s possible the Braves could pull a fast one and get rid of CJ.
No Team wants Johnson !
home run strickland in the playoffs. no thanks.
They cut Ryan Buchter last off-season and he’s been lights out for the AAA OKC Dodgers. I doubt Aardsma makes it to free agency tomorrow, I’d expect Coulombe to be sent down, maybe Josh Ravin too. Chris Hatcher might need to go to the DL to fix whatever’s wrong with him.
I had forgotten about the 72 hour window the Dodgers have with Aardsma.. Thanks for reminding me.. Wish I had read this before I commented..
The Yankees were rumored to be interested in Jose Peraza.. Granted it is going to take something serious to get him but with Peterson turning into a quality big leaguer he might be available.. Maybe a package of Lindgren and Sanchez or Jagielo. They could also offer the big gun of Betances but I am not sure the Yankees are going to give up that stud for someone untested in the majors. Regardless of who it is if its bullpen additions for the long term then they are going to want young pieces and the Yankees have a bunch of them. They could also trade Peterson and call up Paraza.. Peterson would be an attractive trade chip on his own..
Speculation aside, more than likely they will sign one of the pieces that have recently opted out that did well in AAA, like, David Aardsma or Dana Eveland..
No way the Yanks are trading Betances, he is the ultimate weapon out of the bullpen.
Totally agree, but would they trade him for one of the best 2nd base prospects in the game?
No way they would do that. I know Peraza is pretty highly rated, and I do like him, but Betances is argubly the best reliever in baseball, and the Yankees do have a decent 2B prospect in Refsnyder, he is obviously not on the level of Peraza, but the upgrade wouldn’t be nearly big enough for them to trade Betances. And pretty sure they still wouldn’t do it, even if they didn’t have Ref.
I don’t think there is an argument about it.. With Kimbrel slipping just a little bit this year Betances is clearly the best reliever in baseball but he is still just a reliever.. Remember Robertson was pretty lights out when he was a setup man and slipped a little bit when he took over the 9th.. Before you say Betances is better than Robertson ever was look back on his 2011 season.. Their stats line up very close with Robertson (2011) having a 4.0 WAR and Betances (2014) having a 3.7 WAR. I am not selling Betances short at all.. I know the game is over when he comes into the 8th with a lead. But, I also realize that the Yankees need a 2nd baseman that can actually field like a 2nd baseman and to get a prospect the caliber of Peraza they are going to have to give up something as equally prized.. Ref has the heart but not the skills for 2nd.. The argument can be made that the Yankees won’t give up someone like Betances for Peraza because he has no MLB experience. Also, he is forcast to become a leadoff man and the Yankees already have 2 of them in Gardner and Ellsbury.. This is all moot anyway because I am sure the Braves are just going to go picking through the scrap heap.. Sorry about the long winded reply..
The Yankees are only where they are this season because of their lights out bullpen and the surprising resurgence of Mark Teixiera/Alex Rodriguez. Their rotation has been very weak and no way they trade any of their lights out bullpen especially when they’re cheap for an infield prospect when they’re the Yankees and can just buy a suitable infielder who is already proven at the major league level.
They’re not trading anyone of major league value for anything but starting pitching.
Positional players are much more valuable than a reliever I’d have to think.
Still can’t figure out why you latched onto the Betances comment though.. I even said it was unlikely..
Braves aren’t trading Peraza unless they offer the house..
I would just go after Zobrist if I’m the Yanks!
if you grew up a braves fan, you’ve seen 3 separate cores of lights out bullpens over the last 15 years, seeing them ranked dead last in bullpen era is embarrassing. Still, the returns for carp kimbrel and Walden were awesome. They just got some bad fortune losing Simmons and finding no diamonds in the rough.
At this point, I support giving banuelos a shot seeing as it would keep his innings down. Otherwise frieri, carp and Santos look like nice buy low options
I have not seen a Braves bullpen this bad since 2006, when such household names as Chris Reitsma, Adam Bernero, and Ken Ray all rotated around the revolving door as the Braves closer. That ‘pen was so bad they dug up the corpse of Mike Remlinger to help. Which he predictably did not.
If not for this ghastly bullpen, the Braves could easily be in first place right now, as insane as that is to imagine. And the issue isn’t even Jason Grilli or Jim Johnson. Both have been solid. But these middle relief guys? Yeeeesh. I wouldn’t mind taking a flier on David Carpenter again at this rate, although I suspect he probably would go into epileptic seizures having to see Juan Uribe every day.
Joe Blanton has looked decent in the Royals bullpen so far this year (small sample size) and I honestly don’t see them extending him beyond this year so he could be a very cheap option.
So the Braves want to make “upgrades” while not giving up anybody good or having to pay any money, sounds like a good plan. Good luck Mr. Hart.
that’s his goal, let’s sit back and watch
K-Rod is really not that big of a financial burden. He’s only making $3.5 million this year and $5.5 million next and it’s not like the Braves couldn’t move him later on. He has a reasonable $6 million option for 2017 with a $4 million buyout but 2017 is what the Braves are gearing for anyway.
Brewers might be inclined to take Chris Johnson along with a low level prospect if the Braves would take back Ramirez and his remaining $7-8 million or so with K-Rod. Johnson might not be playing up to his contract, but the contract is not enormous and they don’t have obvious Ramirez successor unless they move Segura to 3B. That’s going against conventional thinking that Brewers will blow up roster, but that’s far from certain.
No team is acquiring Chris Johnson with an eye to him being anyone’s “successor.” If he were to be involved in a trade it would strictly be one of the Melvin Upton, Jr. variety. Just using a variant of the word “success” in concert with Chris Johnson is offensive to me.
People forget the past 4 years Alberto Callaspo has been a starter. Yes Johnson is bad but someone will play him
His WAR numbers are greatly influenced by his negative defensive value. Defensive metrics are still evolving though and probably to some extent a bit over valued. I don’t see him play everyday but I’ll take the word of those who do that he’s not very good despite a much better than average .978 fielding percentage last year. Point is he’s a .282 lifetime hitter, barely over a season removed from contending for a batting title and he’s theoretically still in his prime.
If you’ve watched Aramis Ramirez play since August of last year (for considerably more money), you’d see some value in Johnson, believe me.
Why bother? They’re not making the playoffs, so why trade any talent and acquire a player “for the heck of it”. They should do what they’ve done for years, build from within. They’re not going to be good for some time and should be ramping up to have a good team when they open their new stadium.
if Braves had even a decent bullpen, they would be in first place right now. What makes you think they won’t be good for some time? Everything else has been good other than bullpen
Yea, it has been pretty sweet to see them play small-ball this year. As opposed to the swing and miss approach they’ve had during the Wren years.
You know that besides the Giants and Mets the Braves are the closest team to taking 1st place? So, literally, every other team is “not making the playoffs”…
This isn’t basketball where you can just acquire x amount of talent over a few years and your team is assured of being good. Baseball is a lot more random, see the Red Sox and Padres and the Astros and Twins. Yeah they obviously shouldn’t sell the farm but if they think they can make the playoffs and not give up terribly much then they should go for it. I think the Nationals and the wild card teams are too good and it would be pointless but I’m not running the team.
I can see the Braves or Mets picking up Carpenter!
Acquire David Carpenter from the Yankees. Then call up David Carpenter from Gwinnett. Make it happen, Bravos!!!