6:42pm: The Red Sox will option Craig to the minors, Mastrodonato tweets.
5:11pm: A struggling Red Sox team appears set to shake up its roster, Jason Mastrodonato of the Boston Herald writes. Roster moves are “under discussion right now,” according to manager John Farrell. Michael Silverman, also of the Herald, tweets that one possible move could be a trade of outfielder Allen Craig. The team could also option Craig to the minors. Mastrodonato writes that Craig was in Farrell’s office with the door closed this afternoon.
Meanwhile, outfielder Jackie Bradley Jr., who has hit well for Triple-A Pawtucket, was scratched from the PawSox’ game Saturday. Mastrodonato notes that if Bradley were promoted, he could play center field against many righties, with Mookie Betts moving to right and Shane Victorino (who’s currently on a rehab assignment at Double-A Portland) playing right field against lefties.
It would likely be easier for the Red Sox to option Craig than to trade him. He’s off to a .146/.255/.208 start and also hit poorly last year, and he has about $25MM remaining on his contract. It would appear that the only way to trade him, then, would be to eat a significant amount of salary in the process. Hitting coach Chili Davis says he believes Craig needs to play every day to regain his hitting stroke, so perhaps a stint at Pawtucket could help rebuild his value.
What’s there to consider? Pull that trigger.
Who would want Craig? Teams would only take Craig if he were released, and only on a minor league contract. His defense is terrible and he has a terrible bat. His value is almost, if not already zero.
Craig hasn’t made an erred in 257 games
*error
That was quick dude wow
He doesn’t make errors because he doesn’t seem to have much range to speak of. You can’t boot the ball if you never get to it. He’s no Dayan Viciedo out there, but I wouldn’t exactly consider defense his strength either.
That’s because he’s a first baseman being forced to play outfield. His defense is never going to set the world on fire at either spot, but he shouldn’t be playing outfield.
Delete the word “outfield” from your post, Victoria, and I agree 100%. He just shouldn’t be playing. He’s had opportunity after opportunity and has shown nothing.
Still it’s not bad
he’s avg in outfield which is ok in lf. and is pretty good at 1b but have napli there who isn’t hitting either.
Ken Harrelson didn’t make a single error in 1968, but he said that Reggie Smith and Mike Andrews both tried to claim him as a dependent on their 1040.
Explain numbers of numbers
Well I just made an error lol
there are probably some teams that think they can fix him. not gonna get much in trade but a power arm for bullpen would be nice.l
You’d be lucky to get Ryan Howard for Allen Craig right now.
They gotta do something. Short of a voodoo style exorcism this is as good a move as any… except for GETTING SOME PITCHING!!!!
That might help…
Or they could just platoon Bradley and Victorino if they wanted to make it less complicated with Bradley, Betts and Vic in the outfield at the end of the game for defensive reasons ( that one time out of ten games where they’re actually winning at the end). Tough to see how that would fix the underlying pitching issue, but maybe it would generate a fraction of an ounce more of offense.
Stop holding on to failures too long. Mujica had a flat splitter and FB sitting 89-90mph in ST.. Should have been cut then. Ross was getting bad vibes from Farrell then and has MiLB options, he should have been sent down long ago and Barnes on the 25 man since opening day.
Many of these problems are of the FO own making, trying to save salary when no hope to do so, just like with Victorino when he returns and becomes yet another Craig.. Time to cut bait with the pair.
Ideally they would send Craig to AAA and DFA Victorino, and bring up JBJ and Castillo. But we both know that’s unlikely to happen all at once. They want to try to get some value out of Victorino, which is fine. His 2013 probably buys him another two or three weeks. That and Castillo could probably use another week or two after his DL stint and missing several weeks of Spring Training.
If JBJ and Castillo come up and prove they are legit MLB players, what do you think they do (given Victorino and Craig are gone)? Do you think they would push Hanley to first if Napoli continues to struggle? I’d assume Napoli is gonna have a short leash now too, though he is well liked by the fans and organization. I’d say they’ll give him another three to four weeks to turn it around.
I think they stick with Nap either way. I honestly think the best way to get the hitting back on track is to get the pitching back on track. I think the hitters are pressing because the pitching can’t even get through the first inning without giving up a run. I’d move Miley to the pen and send either Ross or Layne down and promote Eduardo Rodriguez. Kid’s been money since he got here. What does he have left to prove in AAA?
Yeah, I want to see E-Rod really soon, though Miley has to stay in the rotation because he is signed long-term, and I have faith in him returning to a league-average starter. If anybody, they should put Kelly into the bullpen for good and convert him to a set-up guy, or push Masterson to the bullpen and see what he can do. Both those guys have been the major problem IMO.
Masterson has become the 2015 version of Ryan Dempster with less control. I can’t see them DFA’ing him Draven and really see him less useful in long relief than Steven Wright.
It’s a sad state of affairs right now and only hope the team doesn’t go out and make some desperation move for a Hamels ATM when the need more than that it seems and only Rodriquez, with a few more PawSox starts can deliver it.
Soft throwing lefty. Could replace Layne who still has an option. Moving Kelly at this point puts Barnes back in AAA and I think he’s earned a shot. It doesn’t have to be permanent. Especially since it will likely just be step one. He can go back into the rotation if he earns it.
Maybe. I’d rather see Masterson in the bullpen though. I still value Miley highly, and I think he is fully capable of rebounding. Masterson on the other hand I think is done. His velocity is weak, and his ability to throw strikes is poor (even though, it seems as though the whole rotation besides Porcello struggles with command). I think pushing him to the bullpen could cause some of the velocity to reemerge, and I think he could do the role well. As for Layne, if we send him down, we still have two lefties so we’d be fine. I honestly think Miley’s biggest issue has been his control. His walk rate has climbed every year and in combination, so has his ERA. If he could somehow learn to limit walks like in 2012, I think his numbers would look much much better.
Kelly has only as of late become a constant problem. His first few starts weren’t that bad. He’s got promise, but he needs to get someone to help him develop his control. Buchholz has been absolute garbage after opening day, and up until two starts ago, so was Porcello. I’m still not sold on him staying consistent either. And as for Miley and Masterson, they’re always a 50/50 shot of having an ok game or a terrible game.
I really don’t want to see Boston start pulling up all their AAA guys, as a lot of them aren’t ready, like Swihart. I like the kid, but he is absolutely not ready for the show yet, and his batting is telling that tale.
Agree with Napoli. He’s prone to extremely long hot/cold streaks, like he went through all of 2013. problem is hard to get good read on when a 33yo player is in a long cold streak, or finished as a productive player.
How about Owens?
Not with the control trouble he’s having. Erod hasn’t given up more than two runs in a start since he was aquired. He’s earned a promotion.
I’d say that’s what they should do, but I don’t know if they will.
An outfield of Mookie, Rusney, and a JBJ that can hit would be fantastic, and Hanley at 1B would likely look a lot better than Napoli at this point.
No….Nava can spell Napoli at first base. Nava is solid at the position.
Nava is playing much worse than Napoli at this point.
Nava hasn’t been given half a chance this year. Let him play three or four games, then if he doesn’t do anything, you can dump him.
Nava isn’t a major league baseball player at this point
That’s the problem with Farrell he gives players way too much time to turn it around especially pitchers ,,Give the rookies a start or play the hot hitters ,,We need base runners and Napoli strikes out way too much he’s been Terrible the last 2 years ,,
Napoli has sucked for too long
But such a shakeup could hurt team chemistry. Wouldn’t want that.
Winning = good team chemistry
Have the Bosox ever heard of Rusney Castillo?
I’m wondering how long it will be until he’s called up as well.
Just came of the DL 9 days ago after missing a big chunk of spring training. Give it a week.
Damn this needs to be the line up.Betts cf,ped 2b,ortiz dh,hanley 1b.panda 3b.castillo lf,bogarts ss,JBJ right field with that arm,and who eva the cather for that day…go with it,JBJ i think has got it and castillo is hitting alot better than what we got,and napoli not hitting
Yes that sounds like exactly what’s needed. Time to stop giving these guys chances and move on now.
That is probably what will happen if Napoli doesn’t start hitting. Gotta give him another two to three weeks.
Actually, anyone notice because Papi hits 3rd, he really bogs down the baserunning? I’d move him to 5th or 6th, have the speedsters hit early, the bats in the middle, seems to me that would generate more runs. Papi should be told Schmidt’s best seasons in Philly were when he was hitting 6th in the order.
Ummm…Michael Jack hit 6th early in his career. After 1975 he hit 6th in 58 games. He hit primarily 4th and 3rd.
Betts has a lousy OBP, is not really a leadoff hitter. Panda is pathetic from the right side of the plate. Castillo has not proven a thing yet.
Time to give the young pitchers a chance too. Put Kelly and Masterson in the bullpen!
Kelly could be very good in the bullpen…..Masterson? Hmmm, not so much.
I have no idea why the Sox continue to stick with Nava, great story I respect him as a person but as a player dreadful just dreadful
Nava at this point is Mike Carp 2.0. Both had a solid season or 2 then inexplicably fell off the map.
Actually, they explicably fell off the map, because they weren’t very good.
I guarantee that if Nava gets traded to a team that will play him strictly against RH pitchers, he will hit .275 and have an OBP around .350
Carp couldn’t field and couldn’t run. Nava is darn good fielder and decent runner.
Nava is a very decent player left-handed. He fields well, even if not flashy, and he has always been a good OBP man. He is a good guy to have on the team too. Never causes trouble. Realizes his place.
yes lets option him and bring up bradley. also need more power arms in bullpen if trade him do so for a power arm for bullpen. need to find a way to get napoli hitting or sit him also he is hitting 168 thats horrid. kids seem to be ones responsible for most of sox runs lately.
Craig will literally net us nothing. If they can convince a team to take on 15MM or more of his contract, then the Red Sox would be ecstatic.
Well, the Cardinals managed to dump his entire salary when he was hitting just as poorly last year, so it’s possible.
Between Craig, Castillo, and Moncada, that’s about $130MM in the minors.
No reason to count Moncada unless you’re planning to count every other international free agent in the minors too.
Amateur International signings typically don’t cost $60M
no but some come close. moncada was always gonna start in minors it was actually 35 million for him plus the overage charge. its just moncada has such upside they expect his development to be maybe 2 yrs not the typical 5 or more most international young kids take.
Doesn’t really matter. International free agents sometimes go to the minors. It’s not like the Red Sox are keeping him down there when he was ready. He’s an investment that will take time to develop. Just like 99.9% of all 19 year old kids.
Cubs and Red Sox with E Jackson for A Craig and cash to cover the difference in contracts. Cubs get a LF and Sox gets more pitching depth both players get a new life.
Craig can’t play the OF.
Fair enough. Jackson can’t pitch š
E-jax isn’t exactly a SP I want anywhere near my team. I would pay CHC to keep him and take Craig
Yeah. There is hope for Craig, Jackson had warning lights flashing all around him before Epstein gave away all that cash to him, just like Wren did with Upton. Both ill signs that most GM’s would have avoided.
Any chance for a Bogaerts trade? Plays good defense, right?
No, they won’t be trading him.
Alright so when this post says “other moves” they mean strictly promotions and positions?
It could mean trades too, but I doubt it means trading their starting shortstop when they don’t have anyone in the organization that could take over for him.
In this case, yes I would assume so. It would be a minor trade if anything, though the “other moves” just sounds as though they are gonna promote JBJ and perhaps another kid. Wouldn’t be surprised if Kelly is demoted, or moved to the bullpen. Bogaerts or any of the other kids aren’t gonna be traded.
To me, it’s not, or wasn’t entirely out of the question earlier in the season. His defense isn’t that great and have doubts his bat will ever be as the hype was, more middling is my thoughts there and best to move (possibly) before it settles in at where he is currently at offensively.
Unfortunately? Marrero just isn’t the hitter so many Sox fans hoped he really was and is just a glove and Javy Guera is too far away.. So I don’t see him being moved now.
Probably not and definitely not.
No, and not exactly. He’s a decent defender, but not what I’d call a good one.
The Red Sox have plenty of money–they can sit, trade, or send down (when there’s an option) as they see fit. What they really have to figure out is whether they properly evaluated all their talent. I still see this as a 90+ win team (I’d prefer them at 70, but…). There’s plenty of time to do that, while not acting foolishly
You may still get your wish.
What a fleecing that trade was. It is baffling why the Red Sox made that trade.
Just goes to show, Cardinals are just smarter than most other organizations.
Not really a fleecing. Lackey had publicly stated he would consider retiring if he didn’t get his deal renegotiated for more than minimum salary. From the Sox perspective, keeping him would have resulted in not having him at all and not getting anything in return for him. Sox front office had to either try to call Lackey’s bluff or get something of value for him.
He never publicly stated that. It was 100% speculation.
You’re right, I had to look it up. It was a rumor, not a public statement. Still, it was enough of a risk that the Cardinals had Lackey agree to play for that salary before making the trade. So him retiring or refusing to play for minimum was definitely a risk for the Sox to take.
He did say that depending on what team he was on, it was possible he would sit out a year. I don’t even really believe that, though. He would certainly make less as a free-agent this off-season if he took the whole year off.
How much would it cost to give him a 2 year contract? Was it worth it to stick to your guns about the league minimum? Look at where it got them. They won the battle and lost the war badly.
Or if they didn’t want to go that route, just talk to him and entice him into playing. As still_cards16 said, he would make much more in the future if he played rather than sat out.
He was bluffing. I didn’t buy it. It never made much sense.
Red Sox should have at least communicated with him instead of assuming he is going to retire.
The Red Sox got four controlled years of Kelly and three or four years of Craig, and it cost them one season of a 36 year old, surgically repaired (for now), disgruntled Lackey. I’ll still wager that when the contracts are played out, the Sox come out way ahead.
Years only matter when the players are good.
You know Allen Craig has a negative WAR for last year and this, right?
That surgically repaired, disgruntled 36 year old pitched pretty well for Boston in his last year there.
Numbers don’t lie.
Lackey was openly, from what I remember, disgruntled about playing for league-minimum in Boston. He seemed to be threatening retirement.
I remember that being reported. Never heard him actually say that though.
But even so, why didn’t they just talk to him about it to get an accurate answer? Or sign him for one extra cheap year. Regardless, leadership should have communicated to him, make him feel like he’s welcome there, etc…
Eh, there was obviously a lot of risk involved, but there was also a chance to get a mid-rotation starter and 1B who can mash, both with several years of control. It just worked out about as poorly as it possibly could have – if either one of those guys panned out it would have been a win for Boston.
Okay, let’s pretend it is the day of the trade since we don’t have access to a magic ball which can see the future.
It is still baffling how you would trade a number 3 pitcher for Joe Kelly, who has always outpitched his FIP, and Craig whose offensive production is so BABIP driven. I get Lackey was threatening retirement, or at least he was rumored to be… even though I don’t remember him actually saying that. But… why not just talk to him? I don’t understand why the Red Sox didn’t just communicate with him, or give him a 2 year contract.
Now, add to all that there was a big chance Lester would leave and they’d be left without a strong rotation, or even a decent one, why did they trade Lackey?
I just don’t get it.
I never bought that he would retire, I intentionally didn’t mention it in my comment. That trade, as I said, was risky, but it was a trade looking toward the future; it was trading 1 year of control of a very good player for 7 years of control of two risky, but potentially also very good players. Again, all it takes is one of those two working out and Boston wins that trade hands down, it just didn’t work (or hasn’t yet, technically).
Yes, well in theory, you’re right. But you have to look at the actual players changing hands also. The team acquiring the two players with 7 years control has a better chance of “winning” the trade.
But if you look at the actual players. The chance of the specific players bringing value to the club was not high to begin with. Just a glance at their advanced stats and it is an easy conclusion.
And plus, Boston needed a consistently good pitcher more than they needed an 1B/OF/DH, and a low upside pitcher. They already had plenty of those. And better ones, at that. The trade lacked foresight or a cohesive strategy.
I didn’t think Kelly and Craig would be as bad as they are, especially Craig… but that isn’t my point. I’m not judging the trade by how they have performed. I’m judging their thinking process at the time of the trade. It didn’t make sense. Still doesn’t.
I highly doubt Kelly will ever become a mid-rotation starter. Even when the trade was made, his future looked like nothing more than a 5th starter, possibly 4th starter at best if he continued to develop.
He’s got top of the rotation stuff, but lacks the command. Even if he’s just a #4 though, trading one year of a 2-3 for four years of a 4 isn’t an awful move.
It is when the trade also includes taking on about $30M to pay a guy who can no longer hit and has always been a below average fielder.
Still time for Kelly to get it going, they knew he was a work in progress when the deal was made and St Looie smarter than others? How’s that Hayward deal working out so far? I looks lopsided already and only bound to get worse as he walks as a FA after the year.
I see. You want to give Kelly the benefit of the doubt, but not Heyward.
There are too many things to list how the Cardinals have made great personnel choices, whether it is letting someone walk like Pujols, or sign someone when others have passed like Peralta, or recoup value even on potentially albatross type contracts like Holliday, or trade for someone like Lackey while giving up useless pieces, etc. etc.
So yes, they are the smartest organization, or at the very least in the top 3. My personal vote would be number 1.
More fun to pick the three worst organizations. I do not follow the NL but Cleveland, Boston, Texas would be my picks for the worst. Actually Cleveland is so bad they make Boston look reasonable. Their latest potential disaster was giving Kluber five years though they had to reward him for 2014. The Indians can not catch a break.
Hayward in his walk year and Cards left with only setup man Walden left. Atlanta, meanwhile still has Shelby Miller for 2016-2018 in it’s rotation who looks like a guy (still) capable of throwing 175-200 solid innings.
Regardless of the Kelly/Lackey deal.. That Heyward rental was not very good thinking on the part of the Cardinals FO, unless they were thinking (wishing) to be able to sign him LT after the deal, or cannot think of another reason to move a solid SP like Miller.
It was a win now move by a team who could afford to trade Kelly, Craig and Miller. They had/have insurance plans for all 3 of those guys.
First off, you’re conveniently leaving out the draft pick they will receive for Hayward, as even if he does as poorly as he has this year, he will command a long term deal because of his age.
Second, to the bigger point, I can show you ten great moves to every one bad move. The fact that they are perennial contenders for such a long term speaks to that. It’s not world series one year and last place next. They’re in the hunt for the world series every single year. NO other team is on their level, and none have been for years.
At the time the Cardinals signed Peralta, they paid a ridiculously high amount, especially since he was coming off a PED suspension. If they had signed him on the cheap, then you could claim that others had “passed” on him. The signing has worked out, so they can claim being smart. As to Pujols, its amazing that other teams haven’t copied what they did, considering how it has worked out.
When they let pujols go, it was the smartest thing for them that they did, since then they have extended molina , wainwright and matt carpenter and also lance lynn.
You’re proving my point for me. Every team passed on Peralta because of PEDs. They signed him because they are smarter.
And you may consider 13m/year a “ridiculously high amount” but I’m sure a very large majority of baseball fans will not. Especially not on this site. Especially for Peralta. Especially when the contract pays him less as he ages and (potentially) declines.
Anyway, it looks like you agree with me that the Cards signed Peralta when others passed, and got a valuable player in return. I disagree with you on the price, but most people would.
I totally disagree that other teams passed. St. Louis OUTBID other teams who also bid ridiculously high. Do you think that St. Louis bid that amount because they are generous? Or do you think they bid that high because other teams were in that range also? I call it ridiculous because of the PED suspension. Teams seemed to give it no weight in their bids. I also call Kendry Morales contract ridiculous. It’s not because of the actual price, but the circumstances he signed it under, just like Peralta. Both should have gone for less.
The Cardinals didn’t really let Pujols walk. They made an obscene offer, LA just made one even crazier.
In that regard, every offer is obscene.
They made an offer they were comfortable paying. What they considered fair value. Not raising it was their way of letting the player walk.
Arguing that offering a 10-year, $200MM deal to a player in his mid-30s is “letting a player walk” is stretching the boundaries of believability just a bit.
It’s ok to admit that sometimes the Cardinals get lucky in the way their decisions work out.
If you don’t raise your offer, you are essentially letting the player walk to another team. I really don’t know how else to explain it.
Sure, I’ll agree with you that they dodged a bullet. But maybe they offered 200 knowing it would be rejected. So don’t they deserve credit for not outbidding LAA? It would be very tempting to keep the face of their team, and the face of the entire MLB for that matter.
And who knows how Pujols would have fared in St. Louis. It looks like every big free agent LAA signs turns out horrible.
Heyward is still leagues better than the black hole they had in RF last year, and Walden will still provide another season and a half of quality value in the pen once he gets back from the DL. That trade has gone in Atlanta’s favor so far, but it’s far from the disaster of the Lackey trade from Boston’s perspective. Even without bringing Craig into the conversation, I bet they really wish they could start Lackey every five days right now instead of Kelly.
They’d be better off trading Napoli and put Craig at first. Also I feel vindicated for mocking Boston’s rotation when everyone was picking them to win the AL East.
Not a single pitcher in that rotation besides Porcello were any good in 2014.
That could be an issue also. Rodriquez is a given, same with Porcello. Think Miley is much better than has shown thus far. As for Bucholz and Masterson? My hope is somehow neither finishes the season, but there is -0- chance that happens with both a combined 22m in salary and no trade value.
Boston wouldn’t DFA Mujica even, with “only” 4.5m until he had completely proven his uselessness. Imagine how many more starts both Masterson and Bucholz will get before Rodriquez and either Wright/Johnson get a chance? It will be too late.
Veterans have a more probable chance of putting up better numbers than the never proven rookies like Eduardo Rodriguez, Steven Wright or Brian Johnson.
Just not these veterans, a guy like Aaron Harang would’ve been a perfect signing for this team considering they weren’t willing to spend much on pitching. Instead they signed a guy who looked broken last year and continued looking broken this year in Justin Masterson.
Everyone? not me.
Opening at 1B next year if either Allen Craig or Mike Napoli (barely hitting his weight) can find their stroke again. Wishing him and Napoli nothing but the best.
I think that is where Swihart might come into play
He will catch. His value offensively comes from him being a catcher. If he doesn’t catch, his bat no longer is a plus tool.
Napoli simply cannot be part of any post 2015 plan. It wouldn’t make any sense. Hanley is going to learn first base on the fly. People say he shouldn’t have to learn during the season, but he doesn’t know how to play left, so what is the difference which position he plays that he doesn’t know how to play.
Craig is owed $4 million for the rest of this season and about $20 million afterward, so it is a no brainer to play him at AAA for the season rather than release him because at least there will be a chance of getting the $20 million in value back.
What would you rate Craig’s chance of providing $20 MM in value by playing this year in the minors? Makes no sense to me.
Let him find his swing, pull him up when hes hot, let him rake a bit, flip him. Its all about timing.
and luck.
I’d move Hanley there
Napoli only weighs 168?
Maybe kilos…
This should be followed by Bradley’s promotion, Kelly moving to pen, Layne being optioned, and Eduardo Rodriguez getting a starting chance
The angels could use Craig but not his contract
I would like to see the Red Sox Trade Jackie Bradley Jr. Ok he’s doing good in Pawtucket but He cant Hit in the Majors, He stinks. Only thing He has going for Him is His Defense, not else Special about Him. The Sox need to trade Jackie and get some much needed Pitching, throw Him to the Phillies for Cole Hamels or to Washington Nationals for Jordan Zimmerman, I cant understand why there still holding onto Him?
Because hes not nearly enough to get ether of them.
They could get either a Cole Hamels or Jordan Zimmerman rookie card. Maybe even have it autographed.
The red sox won’t get hamles unless they are going to offer swihart or betts , which I don’t see happening, the only options I see for the red sox is getting cueto. The nationals are not trading anyone, unless they get blown away with the package. I think Hamels ends up going to the dodgers, Last night on the mlb network , greg amsinger said the angels should trade for hamels and howard, I don’t think so if the names of newcomb heaney and tropeano are mentioned it’s a no deal. thats the angles future. I think it’s down to the cubs or dodgers for hamels.
Hamels will go to the Cardinals, its just a matter of when.
I really don’t think so. They seem committed to Martinez and Gonzales being in the rotation for years to come and I think the Phillies would have to have one. The Cardinals also don’t have much in catching prospects, unless the Phillies are intrigued by Carson Kelly. IF a deal were to happen, I think it would be something like Alex Reyes, Stephen Piscotty, Carson Kelly, and another low minors piece. I’m just not sure that’s enough for the Phillies.
I think Hamels ends up with the dodgers or maybe the cubs as a wildcard, I was watching the mlb network friday night and greg amsinger said the angels should trade for both howard and hamels, I would like hamels but I don’t want to give up heaney tropeano or newcomb as the centerpiece of the trade.
Dodgers dont have the prospects because they arent moving 1 of their big 3. Seems like the Cubs arent interested in moving Russell or Soler, so unless they want to offer 4-5 lesser pieces, I don’t think there is a match there. Baez has about 0 trade value. Okay maybe not 0, but he aint headlining’ a Hamels deal.
I think if the cubs made a deal I think the phillies would ask for Kyle Schwarber as the main piece.
Well, if Amsinger said it… Have you looked at the Angels payroll? Even with the small amount of relief from the Hamilton trade, the Angels don’t have the cap room to do the trade, and appear unwilling to go over the cap.
Yea thats the only thing from stopping them, plus I don’t think they need pitching, they are getting good outings from wilson santiago and richards, Weaver was on fire on friday night, I think that was a sign that he is back to being vintage weaver, Shoemaker needs to find the magic again. All they need is offense right now, I saw that they could go after Cargo
same problem fitting Cargo in. Too much money.
I don’t agree with that, The cards won’t trade top talent for Hamels, I think they go after a 3 month rental pitcher to replace wainwright to make a deep playoff run , maybe somebody like kazmir or harang. Or Haren from the marlins.
They can get him without Betts or swihart. If they center it aroud rodriguez, and margot.
I agree. I also think the Phils can take back a bad contract from the Red Sox. But I think Harang is more like what Boston has in mind to add. The Red Sox are enamored of their farm system.
Harang is also a remainder of year rental. There is no reason to believe that Harang’s next four months will be any better than Masterson’s, Kelly’s, Miley’s or (gulp) Buchholz.
If no Betts or Swihart, the deal will require FOUR top 100 prospects, plus maybe Holt. Look what a year and a half of Jeff Samardzija cost. Four years of Hamels is worth a lot more. Philly will likely contend for three of the four years of Hamels contract, so they aren’t going to trade him for two simply adequate prospects.
How can you say the Phils will contend 3 out of years 4 of the contract? 3 more years after this and they have a decent backend of a bullpen, half a starting rotation and bush league players starting at half their positions…They have a long rebuild ahead of them unless some team goes nuts on a trade for their veterans
If the red sox offense wakes up at the deadline, I think they make a move for cueto and maybe chapmen. The reds need to rebuild.
That’s one totally unaccountable statement you have there. Based on performance so far, there is every reason to believe a healthy Harang will out-perform the Red Sox pitchers you mentioned. He is a very credible #2 who could easily be extended by any team acquiring him.
Hamels fills a bigger need/ The prevalent argument on this board before is that he wasn’t worth the cost. The better argument, emerging now, is that Hamels is not enough to re-launch the ship this season.
Cueto is a pennant drive rental.
Not true. If they offered Moncada as the centerpiece they could work out a deal with some other lesser names.
The Red Sox other option is to play for the future, realizing that for a last place team to move up to First everything has to go right. While it can happen, odds are not in their favor. Everything has not gone right this year. It would be worse to move hastily and give up on promising arms or useful bats too soon, because they are looking only at this year (they must have thought they had promise when they acquired them). They might also rush players that need more time in the minors. Neither would be good for the franchise.
I mean if the offense wakes up at the deadline and realize they need an ace and if the bullpen is struggling, I think they could make a package not for hamels but for cueto and chapmen
Chapman and Cueto would cost almost as much, if not more than Hamels.
Maybe who knows, but all I know is that the angels need offense, not pitching. They are getting quality starts from wilson richards and santiago as of late, Weaver was on fire friday night, he seems to be back in vintage form, I read that they were looking at Cargo but that is just a rumor, he would fit well with the angles, and a change of scenery, only thing I would be worried about is who would they have to give up and would they have to eat the contract.
Why would they want to trade a package for rent a players, when their offense has struggled up to the deadline and the bullpen is a problem? That probably means they aren’t in contention. That’s the time to look to the future, not trade it.
No, the Red Sox other option is to win now with what they have. All five of their starters have pitched to ERAs above their career average even though they are in their physical primes. That will not last. Fans were dumping on Porcello after four starts because he had an ERA of 6.48. Two starts later it is at 4.38. Look at Masterson’s game log. His record should be 4-2. He pitched well enough to win twice when he got no decision. Move up one minor leaguer to replace Kelly in the rotation, and a month from now, if someone fale=ters, then move up another one. Fans panic, but good management does not.
You’re right, good management does not panic. But we are talking Boston, and that management got them where they are today.
Because the other team gets a say. Cherington hasn’t turned on “Force Trades”
Worst decision of Cherington’s tenure; I knew he should have turned that on.
.. So he can’t hit in the majors…. but somehow other teams will trade MLB pitching for him? How?
That Cardinals trade looks like a disaster. (Maybe it could be salvaged if say Kelly transitioned to a high leverage RP)
Maybe the Phil’s are smart not to trade Cole Hamels to Red Sox for their overrated Players.
notice how quickly people, who all wanted Swihart brought up, now think he isn’t ready bec. he is 2 for 22
Maybe Red Sox should option Farrell also to triple A for a while to clear his head a bit.
We miss you elsberry ,,Henery paid over 100, Million to CUBAN players that never proved them self and by the way Castillo is hitting a whopping 211 in AAA.
You seriously think its a good time to rush Moncada to the big leagues, and who’s Ellsbury? isnt he the guy who played a couple months each season then sat on the DL when he was needed most.Id rather have Mookie.
No, stop.
Moving Craig to the minors won’t restore his value. They would have to bring him back and have him play REGULARLY to restore that.
It would be step one. They have to also “restore” the value of Victorino and Napoli, and that process cannot even begin with three of them playing musical chairs for no more than two spots in the lineup, and maybe just one spot when Castillo comes up.
But this is where the Front office has taken the team. Too many players for the spots available when the season started. They had to know that someone would not play, would not adjust well from a starting to a sub role, and that their value would go down because they were not playing regularly. The time to move the excess was in the off-season, before they identified to every other team thru playing time, exactly who they had lost confidence in.
Craig’s and Victorino’s trade value couldn’t go down because they had none. It just didn’t come up, yet…
Owens, Margot, Craig, JBJ and Cecchini for Cole Hamels and Aaron Harang?
Might be a bit wishful thinking.
If their not going to get Betts or Swihart, I think Amaro would ask for E-Rod over Owens as the center piece. But overall I think the dodgers will make the move for hamels depending on how Anderson and Ryu are at the deadline.
Who do the Dodgers offer?
Well the phillies said they were willing to eat some of the hamels contract which I think would interest the dodgers, I think they could offer one of their big three prospects, then two lower level prospects and a player on the roster, just trying to think outside the box, or could add zach lee in the deal. I know a couple years ago the angels could of traded kendrick for lee in 2013 when kendrick was on fire.
I guarantee you, the Dodgers arent trading one of the big 3.
Joc is going at an allstar pace, Seager and Guererro are the only infielders the have for next year, and Urias is untouchable.
Guererro would be a free agent at the end of the year anyway I think. They also have Olivera, he might be ready. I think they were talking about extending kendrick as well not sure. If the dodgers want hamels, I am sure they will figure out a deal, but I do know that the phillies want a top catcher in the deal because ruiz is getting old , and his replacement tommy joseph can’t stay healthy.
I’ve never heard the Phillies say they will eat part of Hamel’s contract. What was supposed to make him appealing is that his commonly held to be below market value.
Hamels is not in Philadelphia because they are getting no good offers. It is because they believe they will get a better offer from some team needing one more starter to stay in a pennant race, which happens in July, and who also wants him for the next three or four years. Hamels is worth a lot more than Samardzija was. The Red Sox would have to give their four best prospects, all top 100, after Betts and Swihart, plus maybe Holt if Philly wants a versatile filler.
as a Sox fan since 1975 that’s ridiculous. way too much. the reason nobody has traded for Hamels is due to the Phils coming around very slowly to his understood value amongst MLB teams. with today’s pitching Hamels and his age/contract don’t have the “trade” value many readers on here believe he has. he is pretty close to market value thus despite being a good player with history behind him as FA is good to be acquired when it doesn’t cost the team getting him ANY players/prospects but in trade Hamels doesn’t have anywhere near the value the only GM R.Amaro believes thus now finally we are hearing the Phils willing to pay down part of his contract. …. try Owens and Cecchini and the Phils should consider themselves ecstatic for Hamels
Owens and Cecchini? The Mets got more for RA Dickey. The Cubs got more for Jeff Samardzija.
I agree to that , If it’s not betts or swihart, It’s going to have to be Owens or E-Rod as the main piece. But the phillies want a catcher in return for him.
I wouldn’t give you Rick Porcello for that.
Or trade him to the Dodgers who would take all of his salary and send a significant player back in return.
Why Craig being optioned should stir up Hamels to RS trade?
Allen Craig is a class act, and he’s going to be a big time major league hitter again. If I’m a GM looking for offense I roll the dice on Allen Craig in a heartbeat–and right now he’d be a low risk gamble because it’s certain that Boston will eat some of that contract if they get something in return.
Allen needs to get back to the basics and just be a contact guy again. He needs to take one side of the plate away from the pitcher and to concentrate on letting the ball get deeper into the hitting zone and being quick to the baseball. He’s done it before and he can do it again.
Jeff C
How does Craig still have an option? Don’t you get 3 option years after you are on the 40 man roster?
Of course the hitting coach is trying to defend a guy hitting .146 haha
Great time to play A’s, losers of five in a row. Law of Averages says they due to win one.
If you eat enough salmon, you are bound to want to swim up-stream eventually.