Movement towards a possible return of Major League Baseball to Montreal continues to build, though important questions like “how?” and “when?” remain to be answered in the future. Montreal mayor Denis Coderre met yesterday with commissioner Rob Manfred, as Jon Morosi of FOX Sports reports. Coderre said he hoped to convey the city’s “political will” to land a franchise, calling the meeting “the beginning” of that process. “I think what we need to do is establish a roadmap,” said Coderre. “Our enthusiasm for this project is clear. We love the sport. We’re serious about it. This isn’t just a gesture. … I don’t know about a timeframe, but this is a town for baseball, and we’re keeping the flame.”
- The Mets have weathered the loss of several key relievers fairly well: the unit has combined for the fifth-best pen ERA in baseball. As Joel Sherman of the New York Post writes, New York can look ahead to the addition of Jenrry Mejia, Vic Black, Bobby Parnell, and Jerry Blevins, to say nothing of young starters like Rafael Montero and Steven Matz. While there’s plenty of uncertainty in that group, there is some upside, and Sherman says that could free the team to put its resources toward the acquisition of a hitter over the summer.
- With the mid-season trade market looming, the landscape has changed for the Phillies and ace Cole Hamels, Jake Kaplan of the Philadelphia Inquirer observes. He looks at the Cardinals, Dodgers, and Red Sox as possible landing spots, though certainly those clubs could be in on other arms and would very likely face other competition on Hamels if they choose to pursue him. Things are shaping up rather well for Philadelphia, on the whole: the 31-year-old leads the league with 74 1/3 innings and has produced a 2.91 ERA with 9.2 K/9 against 3.0 BB/9.
- The Nationals have placed Stephen Strasburg on the 15-day DL as he continues to deal with neck and back issues, Dan Kolko of MASNsports.com reports (links to Twitter). The team is “perplexed” as to the cause of the problems, per Kolko, particularly since the most recent stiffness has arisen on the opposite side of his body than that which occurred just weeks ago. While the hope is that Strasburg will only miss the minimum fifteen days, it seems time to attempt to identify the root cause.
- Top Braves prospect Jose Peraza, a second baseman by trade, is spending increasing time at center field for the club’s Triple-A affiliate, as MLB.com’s Mark Bowman writes. For now, the intent seems only to increase his defensive flexibility. The club has been impressed with young second baseman Jace Peterson, and Bowman explains that the team does not see either as an option at third. Of course, Cameron Maybin has shown new life in Atlanta out in center — a subject that David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution discussed with me on last week’s MLBTR podcast — but this move opens new possibilities for Atlanta.
Will mlb call the new team in Montreal…the Expos or another name…
Also would they consider moving the A’s or Rays too Montreal……
Rays have an extended lease in St. Petersburg. A’s have that molasses like process going for a new stadium in the bay area. Maybe MLB will expand by two to 32 teams… Drop interleague and go to a balanced schedule.
Interleague play has been too successful to drop. Expanding by two teams and having four 4-team divisions in each league would make sense.
I wonder who Montreal’s expansion partner would be? (Charlotte? San Antonio? Las Vegas? And would Houston move back to the NL?
Economics probably won’t let interleague play go….no matter what I think. I’m also in favor of radical realignment and 4 different 8 team leagues. Who else gets expansion? I don’t know…we’re down to regions that will be marginal. Strike Vegas off that list…that’s a tourist/service market. People aren’t going to games there at 7pm…they are hitting the casinos. Someone made a legit case for Charlotte one day…but I don’t know…if anything we have TOO many teams. Its not happening, but the New York market could sustain another… As could the inland empire in CA….who knows…Portland? Sacramento?
Personally, I’m rooting for new franchises in Montreal and Havana, just so I have an even greater excuse to travel to both cities.
MLBTR lets you guys travel?
If MLB expanded 2 teams to 32, the interleague play could be revamped considerably, and could have some ripple effects like no DH in the NL. Not sure when that might happen.
We travel occasionally for things like the winter/GM meetings, but I do as much as I can on my own dime and have long meant to get to both spots (Cuba especially).
Who is the better pitcher in your opinion Scherzer or Lester???
Not sure how this relates, but I’ll take Scherzer.
Thank’s I agree…
Their both good but I’ll take Lester , Here is the toughest one of all probably Felix or Kershaw?
Kershaw….
I’ll take Felix
Scherzer is little better, but his arm might not hold up during the length of his contact.
Im going to Havana for new years feel free to join
Now is the time to go to Cuba while it’s still in it’s classic form. You (should? might?) be able to go there again in 10, 20 years and see what differences the island has undergone. A Nature Channel Video: Cuba, The Accidental Eden, amazes over all of the undisturbed islets and wildlife sanctuary areas.
But I digress, if you are willing to ride your own dime to a large degree, maybe Tim will agree that it will be a MLBTR website advantage to have you go down there and follow the Cuban National Series this winter. You could report back your experiences to MLBTR readers. It would be fun to follow. The time to plan is now.
Talk about progressive thinking! An MLB team in Havana would be one heck of a diplomatic step forward.
i would love to to see Havana host the All-Star game in 2026.
With regards to Strasburg, I injured my trapezius while lifting. Not sure how it happened, but I felt it later that night.
It didn’t feel that bad, so I lifted a few days later and hurt it again. I kept reinjuring it doing basic stuff like sneezing or sleeping on my stomach. When I thought it was fine, I reinjured it again playing volleyball.
I ended up having to completely rest for a month, and I mean not do anything that could upset it like holding my arms above my head, forcing myself to sleep on my back, or moving my neck at all.
It’s amazing how much motion your trap is responsible for.
Hamels and Harang for Margot, Owens, Coyle and Joe Kelly
Hamels for Mark Appel, Colin Moran, Domingo Santana
Hamels for Rob Kaminsky, Stephen Piscotty and Steve Bean
Hamels for Urias, Julian Leon, Enrique Hernandez (Dodgers are in a win-now mode)
Hamels for Hedges, Renfroe and Lindsey Taylor
Hamels for Edwards, McKinney and Almora
Realistically, they all seem like a bit much, but this is what its gonna take for Hamels to be moved. Amaro is gonna demand a return of these natures, and hes probably gonna get it at some point. Hamels is having another Hamels-type season, Jon Cueto seemingly has some type of issue (I know its probably a minor injury), and with Strasburg getting injured, that probably takes Zimmermann off the table.
The Phills would say no too all of those deals…but the Reds may say yes to that Astro package…
The Phillies would accept all of these. They are all either equal value, or slight overpays, and the Astros would say no if that deal was for Cueto. Cueto is a rental, thats 3 of their top 10 prospects for a rental.
The Phills would die laughing at that Cubs and Padres offer…even you know that…..
2 top 100 prospects and a decent 3rd piece? Isn’t that what they took for Cliff Lee? Lol..
That’s what they took for Lee….but those prospects we’re all bust…..I think they will want sure things this time around….
They would want a sure-thing prospect? No such thing.
They don’t want MLB talent, they want high-end prospects, they’ve said that multiple times
I think they would take mlb talent over high-end prospects….
They’re rebuilding now, so they want to stockpile the farm system, and not waste service time until they’re ready to compete. Its part of the reason they’re not rushing Aaron Nola to the big leagues.
Are they really rebuilding…who have they stockpiled…..who have they acquired to claimed a move into rebuilding faze….I think their gm is clueless honestly……
Well… I… think… they… have.. stock…piled…B..level..arms.
They stock piled tons of B level arms. Theyve started the rebuild, they’re starting to stockpile. They’ve acquired Joely Rodriguez, Ben Lively, Tom Windle and Zach Eflin to start the rebuild. Amaro hasn’t made a bad move since the 2012 trade deadline.
You can’t square your position with their interest in Betts and Swihart. They want pillars at this point and would be happy with either young, ready talent or knocking on the door prospects as the center piece in a Hamels trade..
Why are you adding so many periods inbeteeen statements. Most use enter, or a space, perhaps a dash or colon would hit your happy little spot.
Anyways, Hamels isn’t on a bargain contract nor is he as good as Price, Scherzer, even Lester and his ‘post-season pedigree’. The Phills need to rebuild before he gets hurt, if Amaro overplays his hand and folds till Hamels gets TJ or whatnot, the Philly faithful just might hang him.
Two top one hundred prospects is fair, one top and two, three, or four on the ‘bubble’ to speak, would probably be enough. Amaro isn’t a genius, but he’s sure smart enough to accept any deal that has “Julio Urias” headlining it.
While I agree with most of everything you said, I do believe Cole Hamels is just as good, if not better, than one Jon Lester.
That’s actually what I was trying to hint at, I think of Lester and Hamels in that nifty little /second tier/ under guys like Scherzer, Price, The King, etc. Obviously I failed at said hint, but the same goes for Lester as did with Pettitte. They say their “Post-Season Pedigree” pushes them up to that tier, which I think is ehhhh, overplayed.
In the offseason they were saying that scherzer was better then lester I disagree on that
Scherzer is way better than Lester…..go look at their numbers…
Scherzer doesn’t have the post season pedigree like Lester does though.
That’s not fair because Scherzer hasn’t had as many opportunities as Lester to start in the postseason…..
Thats true but imo lester is better, as for the phillies trying to trade hamels, I think the dodgers decide to pony up and pay the price for him.
Didn’t Scherzer just beat Lester in a start against him a couple days ago……
.
Yea he did , It was a good pitchers duel , only one earned run giving up by lester.
Here are the #’s for each mentioned 2010-14
ERA WHIP BAA BR WAR IP
Cole 3.00, 1.119, .234, 27.8, 1064
Max 3.54, 1.197, .240, 24.0, 1013
Price 3.08, 1.120, .234, 21.9, 1079
Lester 3.54, 1.246, .244 17.8 1038
It boils down to his wins/losses no matter what anyone says otherwise about not looking at that point. Your stats kind of tell the story.
Exactly right. I know that many tend to say they never consider wins or losses but when a TOR pitcher is on a losing team and gets terrible run support for years on end it skews their perspective. There are also fans of other teams who allow their bias to skew their perspective, it happens all the time.
Max Scherzer has become a considerably better pitcher then what he was in 2010-2012. Hes a top 5 in baseball pitcher, in my personal opinion.
I am not saying he isn’t. I do disagree that Hamels is 2nd tier to Lester and Price. Max now does have an edge. If Cole follows his historical pattern his ERA will end up right around 2
2013 to present
ERA WHIP BAA BR WAR IP
Cole 3.03, 1.114, .236, 13.5, 499
Max 2.81, 1.047, .216, 15.8, 506
Price 3.25, 1.098, .234, 8.4, 501
Lester 3.12, 1.210, .247 8.4 495
Scherzer is much, much better than Jon Lester.
He’s right there with him, in fact when he on he can hold his own with all of them, he’s been pitching the last four years with no run support so his won-lost record is distorted.
McKinney is the best prospect of the bunch, and not good enough to be the centerpiece of a Hamels trade . Almora and Edwards were always risky specs and have been trending the wrong way lately.
The Phillies already turned down Renfroe and Hedges in the offseason, according to Nightengale.
Hedges had a decent start in the PCL, but Renfroe has taken an unsurprising step backward. I really doubt Taylor is enough to turn a no into a yes.
The only package I think the Phils would accept for sure is the Urias/Leon/Hernandez one. Of course, it’s very hard to imagine the Dodgers parting with Urias.
They’re not “equal value” or overpays. Hamels is a #1 starter–a rare and highly valued commodity. He’s under team control for four years at a reasonable salary. There’s no good reason for the Phillies to trade him.
And Dodgers package that doesn’t include either Puig or Seager should be a non-starter for the Phils. Urias has only a few minor league starts at AA. He has potential, not a track record, even at the minor-league level..
Hamels is an ace and just about every one of those packages contains 2 top prospects. The Phillies have been trying to trade him for 2 years, and they’re in the middle of a rebuild, so they have reasons to trade him.
Urias is a future top 10 prospect in all of baseball, and is probably the best pitcher in the minor leagues, currently. BA and Keith Law have Urias second in baseball.
If I were the Phillies I’d want more from the Red Sox. That and if you’re giving us two pitchers, you have to take 2 back in return. At least do us that kind of solid.
We’ll take Masterson to even out some of the cash, and he eat innings for us. We have no SP depth at all.
If you had seen Masterson pitch at all this year you would reconsider that. I’d still want more if I were the Phillies though. Maybe a lottery piece or something.
At least Masterson has some upside.
Jerome Williams and Sean O’sullivan are hopeless, Severino Gonzalez profiles as a back-end starter and Harang is just waiting to blow up. No way he sustains a sub-3 ERA.
For Harang and Hamels, if the Sox offer Rodriguez, Devers, Margot and Marrero, I’d take back Kelly and Masterson’s contracts or just about any 2 contracts the Red Sox want to lose including Craig’s. Except Miley combined with Craig — that’s just too much dead money walking.
I’m reading this and thinking about the SOX-LAD Blockbuster in August 2012 and wondering if Cherington and Amaro could work out something to the betterment of both sides.
Sox don’t need salary relief, so that’s pretty unlikely. And Miley isn’t dead money. He had a few bad starts at the beginning of the season, but he’s been solid in 7 out of 9. No reason for the Red Sox to want to get rid of him.
Miley is no Porcello….thankfully.
Coyle and Joe Kelly?????
Joe Kelly still has tons of potential, and Sean Coyle isn’t a bad prospect. Kelly and Owens would both go right into our rotation along with Williams, Nola and Gonzalez/Buchanan at the deadline.
I’m turning Joe Kelly into my own version of Zach Britton if I got ahold of him
Wouldn’t be a bad backup plan if he failed in the NL as a starter.
I’m not sure he’s much more than a #4 starter… He has the boom…but not the overall stuff. Give him to me for an inning with 2 pitches
Joe Kelly is a bullpen arm at this point. And we don’t even know if he can do that well yet.
Coyle isn’t bad but he’s basically got the ceiling of a utility man.
Owens has been awful this year and has never had good command before either. Rumor is the Phillies aren’t keen on him.
Margot is a great prospect, but as the centerpiece of a deal that includes Hamels AND Harang going the other way and no solid additional pieces returning to the Phils, he’s just not enough.
Add Zach Lee into that deal with the dodgers and I bet the phillies would do the deal, That is a nice deal to begin with, Urias being the main piece as he is expendable over Seager. Dodgers are a win now team and would be the best fit for hamels, He would not be good with the red sox. I believe the red sox make a package for cueto and chapman.
Dodger a win-now team? I’d argue they are trying to win consistently, not just now. In fact, they have made it quite clear they are trying to build a consistent winner, not be a “push all the chips in for one year” type team. Management have made a point to emphasize strength and depth in their farm, and have displayed a big time reluctance to move their key prospects.
Best asset the Dodgers have is money. Money means they can bid in a Free Agent pool that’s talent rich, instead of having to pay money + a haul of prospects. Some teams, to get top arms, have to ship their prospects away (undesirable Free Agency destination, smaller payroll etc), LA doesn’t have to.
Not saying Hamels to the Dodgers doesn’t make sense, it’s certainly possible. In fact, there’s zero doubt that the Dodgers have at least asked the question. I’d really like to see Hamels in Dodger Blue.
But this notion about “win-now” discredits their plan for tomorrow. Teams with small windows can conceivably be “win-now”, but that’s not very reflective of LA’s plan.
Agree which is why they should just buy Price or Ceuto after the season…..
I believe greinke test the market and goes somewhere else, Hamels with the dodgers would make them instant world series contenders. I just think they do make the move for hamels because Urias is more expendable then Seager, Hamels would be good insurance incase Greinke does opt out.
Urias is the #1 SP pitcher prospect in baseball. he is not expendable. This is like saying Felix Hernandez is expendable a month before beginning his career?
Im just saying since they have kershaw tied up for 6 more years, greinke will possibly opt out, add hamels to that rotation right now, world series contenders for sure, I’m saying that amaro was asking for both seager and urias, and if philly eats some of the contract , I think the dodgers will give them Urias and others to get hamels
Úrias might be better than Hamels as soon as next year. The move would make perfect sense for the Phillies but would be a tragic mistake for the Dodgers. In addition to talent and cost-control, you’ve also gotta keep in mind the marketing aspect. Úrias, a Mexican, could resonate very, very strongly with the extremely large Mexican American population in L.A.
Yeah, except when was that Amaro asked for Seager/Urias? December? Since then those have have proven themselves and moved up far higher in the prospect lists to the point you’d believe they are both untouchable. Especially for Hamels pricetag.
Again, Just offering Urias, is going to be a better offer than any other team can put up. The Dodgers don’t need to offer any one else if they say Hamels for Urias straight up.
About the only prospect that would equal Urias in terms of talent in pitching is Lucas Giolito. And the Nationals certainly aren’t offering up him for Hamels.
Other than that, you’re talking teams offering up ML Star pitchers to begin with to get a ML starter of Hamels ability in order to equal Urias’s projected talent level. And they play on the Mets. Syndergaard, Degrom, or Harvey.
Greinke is 100% opting out. If he was struggling I could see him sticking around, but he is going to get PAID in the off season.
Agree with you, but as with the Red Sox and Yankees, the Dodgers want to get under the luxury tax and stay there.
I don’t think the Red Sox one is enough. Drop Harang all together and it makes sense with Philly eating a bit of cash (5MM or so).
I actually have Harang going to the Cardinals
The Dodgers offering Urias straight up is a better package for just him, than any other package put together. Dodgers don’t add anybody to a trade offer if they included Urias. Julian Leon is what your realistically starting the Dodgers offer at.
In order for a team to arise in Montreal, pretty much either a current team(cough cough Rays cough cough) would have to relocate it’s brand, one additional team would have to join the league and the divisions would have to be restructured, or there would have to be multiple teams join the league to balance things out entirely. Definitely doesn’t seem like an immediate thing, but Montreal seems serious about it’s desire, and it should be interesting to see how they work that out.
I’m in love with Montreal having the Expos back…they were my team….but I’m realistic and not getting my hopes up.
I would think it wouldn’t be the Expos. Just because of the history of the Expos, the franchises have changed. “Pedro Martinez is the best pitcher in Expos history, yet he never played for THESE Expos”
Maybe not, but having the Expos name and logo bought back from the Nationals would be solid coupled with a new ballpark. But the thing is…MLB will only use this as leverage to get the Rays and A’s new parks. I’m not sure people in Canada are thrilled to fund a new stadium. I see it as being a long ways off.
I’d guess that’s basically it.
Not to mention having a stadium in place… Probably built with questionable public money. I’m all for baseball in Montreal… No one would be more delighted than myself, but ask those in Quebec City how having that $400m hockey facility is going toward bringing an NHL franchise back.
The best candidates to move based on fan support – Rays, Indians, A’s, Marlins and (surprisingly) White Sox – all pretty much have legal contracts in effect that would make it difficult for them to leave. As for expansion – I watch at least 4 games a day on MLB.TV, the level of play is so low now that the idea of further diluting the talent level is scary. Bullpens and benches now are staffed by AAA guys, and young teams are even starting AAA guys.
This Montreal thing coming out of nowhere is taking a page out of the NFL’s book to get concessions from localities by threatening to move their team to an open market.
Well, I never said any of the mentioned options were perfect, ideal, or even likely, those just seem to be the only conceivable ways for the possibility of a team to Montreal to ever come to fruition. I’d also like to note that Tampa, despite contractual status, was the example I pointed out due to the recent declined request for relocation, which was a big blow to them, as their current location is pretty horrendous for business. Their current situation is extremely grim, and doesn’t seem sustainable for the long haul, making them the obvious rebranding candidate. Also, your comparison to the NFL, in this case, really isn’t very fair,though I can see where you could draw slight similarities. This isn’t the MLB looking to relocate a team for concession purposes, this is the city(literally the mayor) reaching out and letting it’s desire be known to host a team again.
The NFL has used politicians in potential relocation cities over the past 20-25 years to get concessions from cities that they have teams paying in.
As red_line did, you cite the Rays needing another stadium (in a different location), yet you don’t see any connection to MLB possibly using the threat of Montreal to get that concession. OK. Red_line also notes that Oakland needs a new stadium built.
Sorry, but as my Dad used to say – “when some see the handwriting on the wall, they think it’s a forgery”.
The main issue isn’t with the stadium itself(although the Trop isn’t exactly the player’s paradise, at all), it’s the physical location of said stadium. A lot of baseball fans in Florida are transplants from other areas as it is. The bulk of the fan base of the team is, as you’d imagine, Tampa based, and the travel to St.Pete can be tedious, to put it lightly, as the traffic gets heavy during the hours most would be traveling to the location and can make for quite the trek. It’s simply not the ideal place to be playing for their market. I didn’t say MLB couldn’t use it as a ploy, I just don’t think that’s what’s motivating these talks, as other than us online spectators, there’s been no real link between Tampa and Montreal officially. I really think its just a case of a city wanting a team.
Went to a Red Sox/ Twins game at Fenway in 2014 and there were 4 guys there in Expos jerseys. Carter, Galaraga, Dawson and Martinez jerseys I think. It was pretty cool to see the uni’s again. I’m sure the Montreal fans would welcome having a team back there.
Maybe something could be worked out to put Expos uniforms on the Phillies and send them to play there for the next 2-3 years.
Let’s just state the new Montreal Ballpark as a big IF…but let’s assume it happens and MLB gets a team in there. The Expos could succeed for reasons they never could have a decade or more ago. Its not just that Montreal is a large market, but it’s also the gateway to Europe…the need for Montreal to exist in a bubble is less necessary than before. The game being marketed on multi platforms means that a fan base can be developed in America and around the world
The only thing that might hold this move back to Montreal back….Is the Travel for mlb teams….they hated it when they had the Expo’s…that flight to and from there is horrendous……
By travel do you mean customs? Because it’s not even as far east as Boston. It was actually a very popular destination for players back in the 80’s…maybe TOO popular. Whitey Herzog stated in his book that he didn’t like going up there because many players would hit the European style clubs and during the coke era..it was something else.
Montreal didn’t average more than 22,000 in attendance for the last 20+ years there. Even when they were good. I don’t know why anyone would expect things to be different.
That’s more then the Ray’s, Indians, Marlins or White Sox are averaging this year.
Indians fans go too Cavs games….
Too many o’s in to.
The fans go to Browns games as well. The Indians ownership and front office have alienated Cleveland sports fans. An untold story. Great sports town.
I disagree horribly sports town…..
Then explain why the Cavs and a lousy Browns team sells out? One of the most rabid sports towns I’ve ever been to.
Football’s is big there…but Ohio was where football was born way back when…..but as far as sports as an whole….baseball,hockey,basketball pre and after LeBron….not so great…..
They’re been going to to Cavalier games since Thome left and Labron James “shockingly” got drafted by the hometown team in the same year.
That was their top attendance. Their average the last 7 years there was around 10,000. If the Rays, Indiana, Marlins, or White Sox would be happy with crowds of 10,000 then they should consider moving.
FL can’t support 1 MLB team…let alone two. At least the Indians have some history. The White Sox…I consider it a win for every fan if they can attend a game and not get shot.
They didn’t make the playoffs ever in a full season and their one playoff appearance was in 1981. They played in the same division as that powerhouse 80’s division which was the Cubs, Phillies, Mets and Cardinals. I don’t know why people blame the fans for not going to the games, fans didn’t exactly pack San Fransisco Giants games when they were bad in the 80’s/90’s.
Fans don’t support constant losers and the Expos never had an ownership committed to winning past 1994.
Baseball is a zero sum game. Half the teams will have losing records. You want a city where they’ll still come if the team loses. The Orioles had had 14 straight losing seasons where their attendance never dipped below 21,395. That was what the Expos’ attendance was when they had the best record in baseball. Your Blue Jays haven’t made the playoffs in over 20 years and their lowest attendance was 19,173. You don’t want your team in a city where if they win it’s the same as the Orioles losing 100 games. I don’t know if there are cities without teams out there who can draw 30,000+ each night but Montreal sure isn’t one.
The Giants drew 10,107 people a game in 1985. Which ironically wasn’t the lowest attendance per game. The Pirates drew 9,199 a game that season.
The Expos made the playoffs in 1981 and drew the 3rd most fans for a N.L team with 27,403 per game. They drew fans pretty well from 1979-1983 as they never ranked below 4th until 1984.
The Giants also made the playoffs one year in 1971 drawing 13,655, the next year they drew 8,412. The Giants didn’t start drawing anything but an average amount of fans until they acquired Bonds in 1993. IE: Competing. The Expos never competed besides 1994 and 1981.
I’m sure moving out of Candlestick helped generate a ton of interest too as they started becoming one of the highest average attended ballparks once Pacific Bell Park was opened. A new stadium in Montreal would help considering how much of a dump it is.
What does how the teams’ attendance was 30 years ago have to do with today? Back then Pan Am and TWA were the top airlines and Pumas were big sellers.
What matters is how they drew/are drawing fans more recently. And the Expos were far below the worst. You say it was because the team stunk but teams need to sell tickets when the team is bad as well as when its good.
There’s no reason to think that Montreal will be any different than Miami and Cleveland. They’d get a little bump at first but then they’d draw poorly. Any owner who’d go to Montreal would be a fool.
I’m showing you winning and stadiums have to do with attendance of a team as most fanbases are bandwagoners, all your saying is “Montreal Expos couldn’t draw fans” when I proved that’s incorrect.
The Giants went from an spectacular faillure as a draw to a powerhouse as soon as they started competing with Bonds and got out of Candlestick.
David, you are way to stuck on attendance numbers and not looking at the real issues. Outside of five or six teams, no one would of survived the issues ownership put the fans through. You have a team that never won a full season division in its entire existence in Montreal. I remember listening to Susan Walden who was a Yankee beat reporter at the time, and she described how the location of the stadium was one of the worst in baseball and was a huge issue in getting people to the stadium.
There are a ton of other issues which impacted attendance. Montreal with real ownership would be a strong MLB city. They will get another team in the next few years.
No, Jaysfan1994, you proved that at one time the Expos drew fans. I replied that at the same time Pan Am and TWA were dominant airlines. When you’re investing you invest in the companies who are doing well now not those that did well 35 years ago. You’ve chosen to ignore the 20+ years since. The Giants did start drawing. The Expos didn’t. They gave no reason to think they would.
The Expos did have bad ownership and they were a bad team. The team that moves to Montreal will likely be one with a bad owner that plays poorly. Anyone, other than the 94-95 Expos, can draw fans when the team is winning. You need cities that can draw fans when the team is losing. The Expos’ best attendance is many other teams’ worst.
Any owner that moves their team there is going to fail, just as any owner in Miami would. The markets just don’t draw. Why move your team to a city that couldn’t support a team when you can move to one that might?
The Marlins before the Marlins existed.
I’m assuming they don’t play at Olympic Stadium again. They’d have to come up with a downtown facility
Look at the entire history and you will see that nearly every other MLB city would of drawn the same way their last 20 years had their fan base been put through what the Expos fans were put through. Montreal’s fan take far too much of the blame for how the run of baseball ended in Montreal.
The Kansas City Royals had 18 losing seasons in 19 years between 1994 and 2012. Their low attendance was 16,334. The Blue Jays have gone 22 years since their last playoff berth. Their low attendance is 19,173. The Orioles had 14 straight losing seasons and their low attendance was 21,395.
Between 1984 and 2004 the Expos only 10 losing seasons in 21 years. They didn’t make the playoffs but they weren’t bad half the time. They only topped 20,000 five times.
I think the Marlins would be the best team to move to Montreal. Then you could pair the Marlins/Expos/something new with the Blue Jays as a natural interleague rival and pair the Rays with the Braves. That would leave the Mets/Yankees, Orioles/Nats, and Red Sox/Phillies. It would work a lot better than what they have now.
Interleague rivalries are very low on the list of things that are considered when moving a franchise. Miami just got a new stadium so they aren’t going anywhere.
Of course it’s not the #1 priority, but do you really see the Marlins succeeding in Miami in the long run? It’s too hot. It’s too rainy. There aren’t enough fans. And most importantly, there is horrible mismanagement of the brand. The name Marlins will always be associated with “fire sales” even though others do it too, the Marlins are most associated with them. A move/name change could be extremely beneficial to them both in the short term and long term.
Interleague balance shouldn’t be forgotten about either. I realize MLB doesn’t care since both Texas teams are now in the AL. But in this scenario with two Canada teams (Toronto, Montreal) and two southeast US teams (Atlanta, Tampa Bay) it is logical to let the fans in these regions have one of each. As long as there are different rules for each league, fans should be allowed the choice of which they prefer.
You mean, return Jeff Loria to Montreal? Bizarre thought, but for a $billion in taxpayer paid for infrastructure, I’m sure MLB would go for it.
I’d rather see the Expos in the A.L East rather than the N.L East. Montreal vs Toronto is already a hot rivalry in every other spot we have here. Undoubtedly it’d carry over in baseball and generate tons of cash for both teams. Montreal is probably a bigger draw than The Rays in that division. Who wouldn’t want to go to Montreal for partying/baseball?
They still need a new stadium before that happens.
Yeah, but Canada deserves one team in each league. With interleague play, you’d still get two series per year. Division rivalries would sell tickets regardless if the Jays are winning. The Marlins moving could sell a lot more tickets for the interleague games than the current split natural rivalry with the Phillies and Braves.
I think the Jays already stated their case saying they wanted Montreal to be an A.L team if they get a team, it’s no secret they’ve been going to Olympic Stadium the past few years to generate interest for whatever reason. My opinion is that they figured out it would be good for the Blue Jays to have a geographical rival since they really don’t have one right now and haven’t had one since the Tigers left the division.
Interesting info. It makes sense, though I’m not sure it’d fit within the alignment of the AL / NL.
The only issue with Peraza playing the outfield is that his production doesn’t match what a prototypical outfielder should produce. Much like when the Twins moved Mauer to 1B, as a catcher he was an elite hitter… At 1B, he’s just viewed as a slap hitting 1B with no power. Peraza could be a valuable 2B given his minor league production (I view him as a Simmons type hitter, without the power) so it’s just not a great idea in my opinion.
What? If his defense is average or better (which will take some to adapt if they leave him there) he has plus OBP and plus speed. He needs to walk more but he doesn’t strikeout (which makes you Simmons comparison apt). As long as he grades well defensively in CF, he would just the type of hitter Hart and Co want in the lineup. Would be a great leadoff/2-hitter to go with Jace. Would still love to see Maybin as an OF option.