The Cubs are expected to pursue a trade for Ben Zobrist of the Athletics this summer, according to Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times. Zobrist recently returned to action after missing time for knee surgery.
Zobrist, who just turned 34, has played all over the diamond in his career, registering stellar defensive marks at numerous positions. In recent years, he’s spent most of his time at second base and the corner outfield, though he played at short quite a bit earlier in his career. Of course, Zobrist has also consistently delivered well-above-average production on offense, with a career .264/.354/.429 batting line.
All said, Zobrist has been one of the ten most valuable all-around position players in the game since the start of 2011. He is still a bargain with only a $7.5MM salary this season, though he’ll hit the open market after the year.
A trade would, of course, render Zobrist ineligible for a qualifying offer, and Oakland will surely be looking for a return that exceeds the value of a compensatory draft pick if it decides to move him at the trade deadline. That is no sure thing, as Wittenmyer notes, as Oakland still hopes to get back into contention.
From the Cubs’ perspective, adding Zobrist would make obvious sense, though that can be said of many other teams as well. The veteran thrived under skipper Joe Maddon when both were with the Rays, and he’d offer the team ample flexibility while deepening its lineup. While Chicago has enjoyed strong production at many spots in the everyday lineup, its bench has been underwhelming.
Billy McKinny!
I’ll take Addison Russell back for Zobrist, Marcus Semien is awful at shortstop.
never happen
Like the Cubs will make it to the World Series this year. Never happen.
They’ll certainly make it before the A’s will.
and then the A’s will hire Theo to break their curse too :/
Lucciano was the Selig whisperer, maybe Ricketts can become the Manfred whisperer.
Just like the A’s tried to do it last year and it never happened.
You’d probably have to add Kazmir too
I’d do that.
I bet you would and I’d like to give you Starlin Castro for Sonny Gray.
Not one A’s fan or front office member alive who would say no to Russell for Zobrist & Kazmir!
Um, seriously? The A’s would have to add Sonny Gray for Russell.
Zobrest and kazmir is not enough for Russell but come on man sunny grey is worth Russell ++
sunny grey may be worth Russell ++ but not Sonny Gray. He isn’t worth anything but a throw in on a Russell trade.
Sonny Gray has the most value in a trade out of anyone not named Harper or Trout right now. He could probably bring in Kris Bryant+Schwarber by himself. He’s one of the most valuable players in the game.
Read the comment I replied to, then read mine. And no, he couldn’t bring Bryant and Schwarber by himself. Nobody in their right mind would do that.
That’s what his value is. No one would do that, but that’s what he’s worth. He is a perennial Cy Young contender who has dominated in the playoffs, he doesn’t cost anything and is under control until 2020. There’s basically no pitcher like that out there right now.
He’s arb-eligible in 2017—he’s going to cost a ton though arbitration…A’s can’t afford that—and no, his value is not 2 of the top young hitters in baseball who won’t be arbitration eligible until 2018 and 2019, respectively, when the market is clearly geared towards hitters being of more value now than pitchers—-
How is he a perennial Cy Young contender if he has never received a single Cy Young vote?
And his playoff “domination” is an 0-1 record with a 1.231 WHIP. If that’s “domination”, then the Cubs should offer Travis Wood, who has had three seasons with a lower WHIP and has a career 0.600 Playoff WHIP. Straight up- Travis Wood for Sonny Gray.
Russell for Zobrist and Kazmir? Now I know why it’s called Cokeland.
Baez, McKinney & Vogelbach for Zobrist & Kazmir do it do it do it now
Doubt Kazmir gets traded without a full clean bill of health. Don’t want to mess with a shoulder issue.
I know, but its been reported he’s fine and only “tightness” and will only miss one start. By the time the Cubs are ready to move on the A’s we will all know how good/bad it is.
That’s a good break – I hadn’t followed up to see the extent of the injury. Shoulder stuff can linger though – Neil Ramirez had shoulder tightness and is going to miss about 3 months.
I’d say if Kazmir throws 6+ innings in his next couple starts there will be a feeding frenzy on him – and if the Cubs want to throw Russell out there for Zobrist + Kazmir then the A’s will say thank you so much and take him back…because they never should have traded him in the first place :/
The Cubs said no to Russell for Hamels no way they do it for two rental players
I don’t understand why people keep pushing Hamels.
The guy is owed over 100 million from now until he is a free agent.
This season he has just been good but not great… Why would the Cubs give up a top prospect/young player for a declining vet that’s owed a mountain of money?
Its not that hamels is so great. its his baggage that is limiting his trade value.
It probably has to do with the fact that over the last five seasons he’s been one of the most consistent TOR arms around. His BR War (27.8) Is by far higher than any of the upcoming FA arms and his contract is going to be half the total value of the $200m Price and Cueto (if he remains healthy) will get. You may think that he’s only been average this year but he is always a slow starter… It usually takes him until the month of May to get rolling. In his last five starts, including tonight, he has pitched no less than seven innings (37.1 total) with 38 K’s, 6 BB and a 1.70 ERA. He has not declined one bit.
I would rather give out the big contract…then the prospects and pay Hamel’s big contract….so look for the Cub’s too sign a high profile free agent Pitcher….and save their Gemz…..
And that is fine by me…I want the Phillies to keep Cole.
Hamels is entering the decline years of his career though. RAJ has handled this situation horrendously, he should have just taken 2 top 150 prospects and salary relief but nooooo he had to ask the world. This same guy told Beane he wanted Sonny Gray for Jimmy Rollins in the middle of last season when Beane asked for Rollins. He’s so bad at his job its not funny.
I was going to reply last night but I was watching 36 yr. old Lackey shut down the Dodgers. I really wish I could what a re-broadcast of the 2001 WS when 34 yr. old Schilling and 37 yr. old Johnson led the D-Backs to the title. My point…every pitcher and player is different and Cole is showing NO signs of decline. His velocity on every pitch is within 0.2 mph of the last few years except his world class change-up which is slightly faster. Blanket statements like yours are as funny as people who say…”he will be great…look at his ST and minor league numbers”. Also The Phils don’t need salary relief and 2 top 150’s….seriously? Really? LOL
Really? The Phillies woudn’t want to move all that money that is being wasted on an asset they don’t need?
Also Hamels, sorry “Cole” (are you friends with him on a first name basis?) has the highest FIP, BB/9 and HR/9 of his career this year. So, really? Yes really. LOL.
2 top 150 prospects for Cole Hamels was enough to reveal to anyone
the hilarity of your post… Now you’re just making it funnier. I can see this is going nowhere so have a nice day. if your evaluation and negotiation skills are comparable to your poker skills I would love to sit down and play sometime… I can always use the cash.
Fine, enjoy watching Hamels give up homers and walks while you pay him money that you could have given 4 FA’s who would have helped your team win way more games.
We will talk at the end of the season when Hamels’ ERA is hovering around 2.00 and his BB and HR ratio is right in line with the rest of his career. There is something called historical trend…. Historically Cole almost always start slow but he always rights the ship after about the sixth start of the season. Comparing any player’s stats at the beginning of the season to his entire career is about as intelligent as comparing ST #’s to regular-season #’s. Most people know this. The Phil’s payroll next year is in the mid $70M range and on top of that their $5 billion television package kicks in. The following season they are in the mid-30s so if you think Cole’s contract is actually a worry…well…….
It’s had for a contending team to make a choice, do they sell the farm for hamels or do they wait for free agency because there will be aces everywhere in free agency.
You are right. It’s a much harder decision for a contending team than it is for the Phillies. They will have just as much cash to spend in free agency as many of the other big market teams. Several years ago when the Phillies were building a contender they were able to lure FA’s by showing a commitment to winning, by laying out their plan to those FA’s. I still contend that keeping Cole through the end of this contract ,and if he continues to perform, a few years after, possibly will act as a “bridge” between rebuilding and winning. The idea that many put forth to trade everyone from Hamels to the batboy for packages of prospects is a recipe for a seven-year long rebuild. If the Phillies go that route they will alienate the casual fan base as well as some diehard fans and that is a recipe for disaster of another nature. I could point to other examples but since I do know the Phillies quite well I will use the early 1970s as an example. They were awful from the late 60s through the early 70s but they started to restructure in late 1971 and early 1972. By 1974 they had a winning record and by 1976 they were in the playoffs. They built around Steve Carlton and Mike Schmidt. Granted at the moment they do not have a Michael Jack but they do have a TOR pitcher, extremely consistent, who wants nothing more than to win… The rest of the pieces can fall into place within a short period of time if done properly.
Hard to judge yet, but appears Amaro is handling this rebuild pretty poorly. A big gamble to wait for a bigger package at the deadline. Appears it will work in his favor, however. But he should have already moved several other guys like Papelbon and Howard, if he didnt WAY overvalue every player on their roster… Seems like its all going to blow up in Reuben’s face soon…
I only hope for Phillies fans sake that he gets fired soon so you all can get a guy in there with some semblance of an idea of how to rebuild via trades and drafting.
Point is, if Cubs wouldnt trade Addison Russell for a pitcher as good as Cole Hamels, theyre not going to trade him for a Kazmir rental
The Cubs aren’t trading Russell, so you can just get over it. You don’t specifically target a guy, see him succeed at a young age, and then trade him back to the original team a year later – for less than you gave up to get him.
Who knows? Maybe Theo will take pity on Beane! Russell is a SS through and through though, playing him at 2B is wasting him.
OK, now I know you’re trolling.
Not trolling, just dreaming…
They’re working on trading Castro. It’ll happen soon. Watch.
There is literally no chance at all of Russell being traded. Definitely not for a 34 year old utility guy and a #3 pitcher. What in the world are you people talking about?
Thank you! I can understand why A’s fans want him back, but there is zero chance the Cubs trade him.
Russell is never being traded. He is excelling at 2B and is a key part of this team now.
Not trading a a 22 year old future stud DH w one of the best 10 approaches at the plate in the entire minors(Vogs), the youngest player in AA who is hitting above .300 w a solid approach from the left side, and a cieling of Baez who may be a 35 homer 2nd baseman 2 years from now for a 31 year old pitcher w injury history and a 34 year old all-field guy–I love Zobs and wouldn’t mind Kazmir but we could and should get a much greater return for that package…
Keep in mind–Kyle Seager signed a 100 million dollar deal w numbers < Castros career numbers in every stat but power–and he's 27, Panda is 28 coming off a year w less homeruns and OBP than Valbuena last year and signed a 5/95—hitters who have the cost-control and position value of Baez and Castro are much more valuable than a lot of these discussion boards are realizing…only way I do that package you described is w Sonny Gray and Zobrist and Cubs take out Mckiney but throw in Almora and Trevor Clifton–Baez,Vogs, Clifton, Almora, and maybe Pierce Johnson as well for Gray and Zobs
You massively, wildly, overvalue your prospects. Please look no further than Jesus Montero as your Kyle Schwarber comp. Could easily happen
That is an insanely ridiculous comp for schwarber—Montero in MILB had a Strike out rate of 21% and walk rate of 7.5%….Schwarber has a strikeout rate of 21% and a WALK RATE of 19.9%….you’re talking about 2 completely different approaches at the plate—-
also—i dont make the value—look at seager’s numbers and his contract in addition to Sandovals—the cost-control of receiving Baez, Vogelback, Clifton, Almora and Pierce Johnson is one A-A+ level prospect, one B+/A- prospect, one B prospect and 2 pitching prospects(one who is major league ready and one who is in high A ball and with mid-90’s fastball and two potential ML quality off-speed pitches….thats a strong haul with the subsequent cost-control for a small market team….What did David Price net for the Rays again??? How much did the Tigers have to give up?? Smiley and Jackson??? ya—you WAY undervalue cost-control highl-level ML prospects…
Pick two of those three and Oakland throws in a pitching prospect, maybe. Zobrist is a rental, pretty sure Kazmir is too- plus he has an injury history. Cubs could use relief help, throw in Clippard instead of a prospect. Doubt Beane would blow all his trade chips for two prospects though… I doubt Theo will sacrifice any more of the future to try and win this year though. ’16 and/or ’17 we’ll go all in, I expect.
That’s a sound line of thought, but with this season being how it is, can you honestly say there’s a frontrunner? The Nats and Royals aren’t world-beating good, their records are more thanks to teams like the Marlins and A’s wildly underperforming. This might be a wise time to go all-in.
But no, Baez+McKinney for Zobrist+Clippard+Kazmir is absolutely never happening. That’s way, way too light a return. Beane could get more if he dealt them all individually.
I agree. But if you look at it from Theo’s point of view, can’t trade the farm they’ve spent the last 3 painful season building, for a few rental players. Landing mid-season upgrades rarely works anway… Ask Billy Beane… Im sure he’d rather have McKinney and Russell back…
I can see a Zobrist for Arismendy Alcantara trade. A’s basically get the same type versatility player in Alcantara, even though he’s no where near his quality. Cubs get Zobrist, another veteran presence to help Maddon be creative in his lineups. Even only for a half a year, then maybe they can sign him after.
Saying Alcantara is like Zobrist reminds me of Theo comparing Junior Lake to Carlos Gomez.
Alcantara is like Zobrist though, super-utility, just not as skilled
So, basically just a utility player then. Those are a dime a dozen.
Schwarber can potentially play C, LF, 1B, DH – now THATS a super-utility we can use!
Alcantara would be ok if Baez & McKinney are also coming over.
Schwarber won’t be a part of any deal. He is the Cubs future behind the plate (even if he plays other positions). A’s can expect one meaningful prospect in a Zobrist trade.
I get that Beane would ask for these players, but the Cubs are still trying to build a competitive team. They are not going to ship off a bundle of talented players to try and snatch a wild card spot this year. Its premature for the Cubs to go trading assets in an attempt to win now.
LOL
Do a little research. Alcantara has the potential to be much more than a utility player. Id say thats his floor. Switch hitter w pop and speed that can play OF, 2B, SS, 3B. Not really a dime a dozen player…
Alcantará has also never hit Major League pitching. Prospects who never pan out are a dime a dozen.
Just because he struggled doesnt mean he’s not going to pan out. Rizzo struggled in his first MLB experience, I guess he’s a dime a dozen and shouldve been traded for a rental player…? I get it A’s fans are bitter about Beane getting fleeced for Russell and McKinney but the Cubs are not in the business of giving away prospects.
You’re not getting it. Certain prospects are more likely to succeed than others. Rizzo had an OPS over 1.000 in AAA over a full season. When’s the last time Alcantará hit 26 homers with a .330 batting average in a season, ever? Every prospect is different, and you can’t project Alcantará, a completely different type of player who’s a huge step down offensively, to Rizzo, a guy who had shown tremendous power and patience in AAA.
Potential can’t be researched. All I see is .194 career BA in Chicago. Plus, I was responding to the comment that “is like Zobrist…not as skilled,” which is basically the definition of utility player.
While Alcantara is probably obtainable, have to believe the A’s might be looking for a SS.
Wouldn’t Zobrist coming back to the AL East make a lot of sense?
I mean he had all those years of success.
I would love to see him in an Orioles uniform.
However, I don’t see DD or BS sharing this vision with me.
I don’t see oakland trading him to baltimore
Why not? Just curious
i think they lack the prospects to trade for him baltimore doesn’t really have any that stands out besides bundy
Sort of off-topic, I used to be really bummed that the Steve Pearce-Brandon Moss trade didn’t happen…not so much anymore.
The Cubs surely will not over pay for a 34 year old guy heading to FA however, the Cubs don’t seem to be as high on Baez as they once were. Perhaps the A’s would package Zobrist with a prospect.
Scott Kazmir is better than most of your SPs, at worst he’d be a #4 on that team – would love to see how he does in the NL too…probably better than Arrieta 😉
Saying that “Scott Kazmir is better than most of your SPs” and “at worst he’d be a #4 on that team” in the same sentence makes no sense. If he were truly better than most of the SPs, he’d have to land in the number 2 spot where the 3-5 guys in the rotation were behind him, not the 4th spot where only the 5 guy was behind him.
Based off numbers alone he’s a 4, but he’s also a lifetime AL guy…those types tend to go up many levels when moving to the NL.
His 2016 FA will be a concern in any deal.
Most of your SP’s? ummm… no he isn’t.
Very interesting…
I hope at the very least, the A’s get a young middle infielder in return.
It doesnt have to be Russell.
Pretty sure Russell won’t be a part of this or any deal. Maybe Castro, though.
Pretty sure Castro is not someone Beane would want.
He wants prospects or producing players with team friendly contracts.
Yeah agree with you in that Castro isn’t really a Beane player, I was thinking about it as well
“Producing players on team-friendly contracts”
Castros Career #’s (simplified) .283/.325/.405 w over 10 hrs 4 of 5 yrs and 100 hits away from 1000 @25–signed to a team-friendly deal through 2019. Keep in mind, players primes don’t begin until 27–you could keep Castro 3 yrs and still flip him for massive value–he’s a no-brainer trade target–especially considering the contracts and extensions being dealt out to comparable infielders w a hit tool and less position versatility and value…the under-rating of Castros trade value is baffling -if he’s in a deal for Zobrist, it’s the A’s sending something else back..
You cannot flip a guy for “massive value” when he’s 27 and owed 45m for .283/.325/.405 that’s called a bad contract.
Lol–he’s currently 25—and Kyle Seager AT 27 just signed a 7/100 million dollar extension w Mariners w career numbers of .263/.327/.433 again, AT 27 and with less position value(only 3b whereas Castro can play 3rd,ss,2nd) so-Ya–a guy signed for less than half of that deal before going into his prime is someone you can ABSOLUTELY flip at 27 w less than 30 million left on the deal–that’s called the current market for hitting infielders
I wouldnt call .283/.325/.405 “hitting”.
Fwiw, he has a career wrc+ of 94.5, which is below average.
he has a career UZR of -16.6.
Kyle seager owns a career 113.2 wrc+ trending up, and has a uzr of 14.2 over his career. 14.2 isnt great, but it’s better than being negative.
Also, the Mariners offered Seager that deal to buy out his arbitration years, so your 7/100 argument is invalid.
Plus, trade value is very different than how much a guy would get in an extension or in the free market.
Lol–7/100 is the size of the deal–Cubs bought out Castros arb years as well–when looking total cost of deal money wise, it’s Seager at 7/100 vs Castro at 8/60(when he signed) and half the amount that is now due to a comparable player w less versatility and who is already in his prime where, history indicates, you would be getting a hitting middle-infielder GOING INTO his prime in Castro. Also, remove Castros one year of 2013 and look at that number again–25 year old shortstops/2nd baseman/ 3rd baseman who are signed to a cheap deal(per market standards) and have a contact rate and career numbers as Castro do not become available GOING INTO their prime very often, if ever–of Castro were on almost any other ball club where there wasn’t a fools riches in middle-infielders he’d already of signed a Seager-esque extension, probably larger.
And also, trade value is dictated by the values given on the free-agent market…that’s why big contracts are viewed as a negative and frequently are traded along w either cash or prospects simply to unload the contract and it is why what is viewed as “cheap” or “team-friendly” contracts frequently get the greatest returns in trades–which is what makes orospects who are years away from arbitration so valuable
David, lol. I’m well aware on these player for prospect deals.
I’m an A’s fan. I can tell you that Billy has never traded for a below average 25 year old that’s owed a large sum of money.
Below average???naybe you should go back and look at war for career(almost 3 war per year player) as a 25 year old going into his prime years on a team-friendly deal which is well below market value
Below average? You do know that Castro is on pace for more than 3,000 hits, and a .280 average right? Those are hall of fame numbers bud.
The odds of Castro getting to 3,000 hits is 24.4% according to the 2015 Bill James handbook. In the top tier of any current MLB player in odds to reach that milestone.
And Castro is worth a lot more than 2/3 of a year of Zobrist.
But that’s not to say that Zobrist/Castro can’t be a part of a bigger deal. No way will the Cubs make that deal straight up.
Exactly–we could throw in a low-ball prospect w Castro and then look at a Kazmir addition–perhaps Castro and Trevor Clifton for Kazmir and Zobrist–even then I’d be hesitant bc Castros value is more than that w the current market but if the Cubs feel those 2 players give us a NLCS matchup w a shot at the series I wouldn’t be frustrated w that deal..
Good point. I think Castro is going to evolve into a top tier SS. Cubs were wise to extend him (and Rizzo) when they did.
Yeah, Cubs, you keep ignoring that bullpen and bring in a guy who would not have a spot in your lineup.
Yeah, because Zobrist wouldn’t start over Coughlan and his .209 BA
They need pen help much more than they need a LF improvement.
Wait you’re right, they’ll only be allowed to trade for 1 player this year.
Probably the two weaker spots for the Cubs are bullpen and bench. Maybe they are looking for teams interested in Coughlan.
Gonna be a very interesting situation if they don’t use any of their infielders to get Zobrist. Or even if they just use Baez.
might as well throw in Sonny as well and just give us all your prospects
Right?
I’m thinking the A’s should move Sonny if they are going to go through with this rebuild…
Take Reddick, Vogt, Gray, and basically anyone of value.
I mean might as well, I dont think Sonny’s value will ever get higher then it is now
Damn, Sonny probably has the most value out of anyone not named Trout or Harper right now, being young and cost-controlled and perennial Cy Young contender. He’s about 1000x better an option than Hamels.
Gray + Zobrist for Russell, Schwarber, Vogelbach & Baez probably gets done. Zobrist takes over at 2B and they sign him long term so he can play under Maddon. Schwarber & Vogelbach are blocked & Baez is such a wild card of a hitter, no one knows if he’s the 2B version of Rob Deer or Brandon Wood part 2 or Dan Uggla with way better D.
The internet might explode of that trade went down… lol
I wonder who would say no to Gray for Russell straight up though?
That’s an obvious no from Billy.
Russell & Schwarber then? Or do you throw in Vogelbach too?
Real curious just how much Gray could get in a trade actually, if any team has the prospect firepower to get him, its the Cubs.
Player for prospect deals come down to what other teams are willing to offer… and the leverage they have.
I’m sure even Billy would have said last July that Shark + Hammel was not worth McKinney, Straily, and Russell.
I honestly couldn’t even guess what it would take to get Gray. But to answer your question, if Epstein offered Schwarber and Russell for Gray, I think Billy takes the deal.
I think the cubs can make a package to get gray from the a’s , A deal maybe like Vogelbach Mckinney or Almora plus others could? not sure
the A’s because they traded Russell so obviously they don’t rate him as high as most cubs fan….
That’s not why they traded him, they traded him so they could have the best playoff rotation in MLB in 2014, which they definitely had….but didn’t get to use, unfortunately.
You just traded 3 cost-controlled a+ prospects and a probable B-tier prospect who may end up being a top 5 DH in the AL for one pitcher(albeit a beast) who is going to be very expensive in arbitration years and a 34 year old about to hit free agency—do you work for the tribune???
I thought the Yankees might make a play for him to fill in at 2B since Hal seems more likely to take on rentals than anything else. The Yanks and A’s never match up well prospect wise. Maybe one of these days you’ll see a big trade between close friends (Cashman and Beane).
I was thinking the same thing, Zobrist would probably look good in pinstripes. However, I also think there’s a marginal chance they make a play at getting Prado back if MIA keeps playing the way they have. He wouldn’t be a rental, and they were keen on what he did for them last year.
The A’s did draft Aaron Judge first…
If Beane told Cashman it’d take Judge to get Zobrist, Cashman would tell his good friend “thanks, but no thanks”.
Ref’s will fill the 2B void…why waste the prospect’s for a team that won’t win…the East this season……
Ref is terrible defensively and this team doesn’t need to go backwards in defense the way it’s played. Also, since when has the East been decided? Last time I checked every team in that division was playing like poop.
Lets face it, the A’s probably aren’t selling either because the entire AL is playing like poop. Granted the A’s are playing like the MOST poop right now, but a 10 game winning streak puts them right back in it and 3 good months probably puts them in a WC spot.
Yea, but the A’s seems to trade regardless of if they’re primed to win or not. Remember, it’s Beane and no one understands his genius. Being serious though, I see Beane giving up on rental guys to get long-term potential in a heartbeat.
Agreed, if its Vogelbach or McKinney for Zobrist straight up I’d say it gets done. Beane would probably want a prospect the quality of Daniel Robertson though, because that’s the main piece he gave up for Zorilla.
Ref’s is ready…..he will never win a gold-glove…but he’s ready….
this was almost interesting.
Then i saw what the ‘source’ was.
yeah, i don’t see any logic in trade good prospects to a 34-year old only signed through the end of the year… not for a team like the Cubs who are building for the long term.
Cubs have Jonathon Herrera, Mike Baxter, Junior Lake, is there a worse bench in the majors?
you forgot Ross
The Cubs trading assets for pending FA would be really dumb when their real shot of winning is next year not this one.
They could win this year, too. They’re front runners in the Wild Card, and as the Royals and Giants showed us, once you’re in the playoff, you have about as good a shot as anybody.
What about Russell, Baez, Schwarber, Vogelbach & McKinney for any 3 A’s players in the organization except Vogt. 🙂
We’ll give you 7 Dan Vogelbachs for Sonny Gray.
I think Vogelbach and McKinney can get it done, or the cubs would have to add one more prospect to get gray. Imagine the rotation of lester gray arrietta hendricks hammel and with edwards coming along.
No deal on the A’s side
The Cubs should just play Baez at 3rd and Bryant in LF, or just wait for Schwarber who will be tearing up AAA soon and ready to move to LF since he’s not going to be a good big league catcher.
Or trade Schwarber to fill a need instead of mixing and matching and playing guys out of position.
hitters like Schwarber don’t come around too often, I’d trade Baez for sure but you can’t give up on a talent like that when you’re trying to build a foundation and not realistically competing for a championship this year
Rizzo and Bryant already been around and having 8 mashers won’t mean anything if you don’t have pitching and defense too. Schwarber brings nothing to the table defensively and is better suited to the AL, that’s a fact.
And if you dont think that in 2015 the entire of MLB is wide open, I don’t know what to tell ya. This is the most even year in a very long time, the only two legitimately bad teams are the Brewers and Phillies. Everyone else is either good or underperforming to their talent level. I mean the A’s are 3-14 in 1-run games this year, actually-bad teams don’t stay that close, yknow?
They might not achieve what they want, but 8 mashers will mean a lot.
The Cubs starting pitching is fine. Lester is Lester, Arrieta is a prospective ace in his own right, Hammel is downright excellent when he plays for the Cubs, Hendricks is coming into his own, and Wada isn’t a slouch and is a pretty good #5 to have. They currently have the 5th best starter ERA in the MLB.
Their biggest issue right now is their bullpen, and I don’t think too many people are keen on trading their top notch prospects for a bunch of relievers.
I’d rather trade for Sean Doolittle than Zobrist. A few months of a rental (although excellent) utility player doesn’t really excite me.
Back on the DL, I think. Inflammation in the shoulder he’s been having problems with. On the bullpen front, the Mets might make sense as they have Mejía, Black, Parnell, and Blevins due back over the next few weeks.
they need bullpen, and will probably spend big on a starter in the offseason. you dont trade premium prospects for bullpen help. Maybe trade some redundant pieces like Alcantara, Baez, and Vogelbach for pitching, but their starters are actually very solid right now.
I think a deal like Alcantara + Vogelbach could swing them sonny gray, not sure but billy beane might ask for somebody else in the cubs system.
That would be a heist for the Cubs. Pretty sure it would take at least two high end prospects (Schwarber, Baez, Edwards, or Almora) and two mid level prospects (Vogelbach, McKinney, or Pierce Johnson)
That wouldn’t be close. It’s wishful thinking. For Gray, the Cubs would have to include at least one of Russell, Soler, Schwarber, Baez, or Bryant.
Cubs are ranked 7th in NL and 12th in all of baseball in pitching w a makeshift bullpen that has been down 2 out of their 3 best bullpen arms most of the year–Schwarbs has ridiculous value for the Cubs–he WILL play catcher 2 years from now, before then LF, but even as a LF you’re talking about a .300 hitter w a .400 OBP and 25-30 HR’s from the left side–batting behind either Bryant or Rizzo w Russell batting before one of them–if we sign Fower long term you’re talking about a 1-5 that is of once in a generation status before you even get to Soler or Baez/castro(whoevers left)…you don’t trade away that type of offense in a league that values offense at an all-time high….
You are talking about Schwarber exactly how the Yankees talked about Montero and look what happened there. Prospects are never ever ever more valuable than All-Stars at the highest level. They WILL break your heart.
your comp of Schwarber and Montero is simply inaccurate…perhaps Posey(albeit non-comparable in terms of defense)–but offensively Poseys MILB was 15.5% walk rate and 17% S/O rate whereas, as indicated in your response to your other comment, Schwarbs S/O rate is 21% and walk rate is 19.9%…in other words within 1-1.5% whereas Montero was 21% s/o and 7% walk—2 COMPLETELY different apporaches at the plates between those types of players—If Montero couldn’t learn how to hit ML pitching he was done for—strong, smart approaches at the plate never leave ya..
Montero never hit as well as Schwarber.
Vogelbach, Pierce Johnson, Jacob Hanneman for Zobrist and Kazmir.
A’s would hang up right away.
Not even close.
what would it take for the cubs to get sonny gray? I think there is two teams who could pull a deal to get gray because of how good their farm systems are well maybe 3, the dodgers cubs and pirates.
I’d say in terms of value, money etc Gray is one of the most valuable assets in the game: perennial Cy Young contender, cheap and team controlled until 2020. So for any team to try and get him, it would have to include 2 or 3 of a teams top 5 prospects or ex-top prospects currently on the roster, and then other pieces.
With the Cubs it would start with Russell & Schwarber and maybe McKinney and another prospect.
Dodgers would start with Seager and maybe even Pederson or Puig would be in the conversation.
That’s how valuable Sonny Gray is at this very second. I’m not sure there’s another team willing to do what Beane did last year and say “My prospects be damned, I’m gunna go for it!”.
I don’t see the a’s being contenders this year, and Gray would bring back a lot. The cubs I think have what it takes to get it done but there is no way they would trade back the a’s russell, I think Schwarber McKinney or Volgy Mckinney and almora for gray.
Schwarber+McKinney would be a solid start. Vogelbach’s a big step down from there.
you sound like the Rays fans ahead of the Price trade—that’s a crazy return—the A’s can’t afford Sonny through arbitration—they will receive ONE “stud” prospect and 2-4 prospects that range from 80-120 to high cieling, low floor pitching prospects in A ball–
think Baez, McKiney OR Almora, Vogelbach, Duane Underwood, Arismendy Alcantara—
CJ Edwards straight up for Zobrist. But then again I’d rather the Cubs add someone like Chapman in the bullpen. Chapman should get at least 2 top 100 prospects in baseball. 1 in the top 40 range and another in the 70-100 range. I’d say do it because the bullpen is awful.
I disagree with your take on Chapman. Kimbrel, a more proven closer, did not bring that type of haul.
I could see the Giants going after Zorbist pretty hard as well. He should net the A’s a good return if they sell.
beane and sabean never make trades with each other.
That’s right, forgot about that, nice catch.
Sabean isn’t the GM anymore, it’s Bobby Evans
All personnel decisions still go through Sabean.
Baez/Vogelbach/CJ Edwards/Lake for Zobrist/Clippard then flip Castro/McKinney to Mets for deGrom/Familia and DFA Motte and demote Zac Roscup to AAA to make room in the pen.
First trade: 5/10
Second trade: 1/10
Mets are not trading deGrom for Castro when Castro isnt even better than Wilmer Flores.
Castro career W.A.R.P.=12.4(not counting his projection for this year)
Flores career W.A.R.P.=2.6(counting his projection for this year)
same age
ya….”not any better”–(sarcastic font)
i recommend researching before you make comments like this–b/c they will make future comments less valid simply for the insanity within a comment like this…
Wow. Sorry, the Mets are not giving up deGrom, who is pitching at ace-level and isn’t even Arb-eligible for a few more years, and Familia, who has pitched excellent and has electric stuff, for a shortstop who is playing markedly worse than what the Mets already have at SS and McKinney.
Castro is severely overrated by Cubs fans. If he continues to play like this, it’ll be two of the last three seasons he’s been sub-replacement level.
Aim for Albert Almora, while his value is somewhat low, maybe throw in Clippard from the A’s side and a 25-30 prospect from the Cubs side
Too light on the Cubs side unless Schwarber or Baez is the other piece.
It really isn’t that light, maybe change the 25-30 prospect to someone like Corey Black, but that’d be it.
Zobrist’s value isn’t the same as the beginning of the year, he’s coming off surgery, and hasn’t been all that great defensively so far this year, visually or advanced metrically (although he has serious SSS issues working in his favor in terms of the metrics). Almora’s a top prospect who’s value is down because he hasn’t been hitting a whole lot. He’s been overshadowed by guys like Schwarber, Russell, Vogelbach, McKinney (who I don’t prefer to Almora, especially defensively).
Almora doesnt profile as the type of guy the A’s would go after (no walks, power or speed), meanwhile Russell and McKinney (literally) and Schwarber and Vogelbach definitely are.
I’d do maybe Almora for Clippard at most. Zobrist is worth so much more for his versatility alone.
If Zobrist was performing like the All Star he’s been in the past sure, but he’s not performing AND he’s coming off surgery AND it’s only half a year of him. That half year and the pick that doesn’t come with it diminishes his trade value pretty heavily. He’s not going to be worth a top 75 prospect let alone a top 50 one
Are you an A’s fan? Dont be talking down your own teams assets!! Zobrist is absolutely worth a ton, especially if packaged with Kazmir, Clippard et al.
I’m talking realistic expectations. Schwarber/Russell/Baez/Castro just aren’t realistic.
Maybe the Cubs could add on top of Almora, but it wouldn’t be a lot more
Did you think Russell & McKinney were realistic for Shark & Hammel? I didn’t.
Plus Zobrist IS hitting pretty well. A .750 OPS 2B/RF with great defense (disagree about him not being solid defensively this year too) is an upgrade to many, many teams. You dont know how long his knee was bothering him before until it became too much, but he’s looked good since coming back.
All that being said I see the A’s being more buyers than sellers and they won’t even decide to buy/sell until July 25 or so, which is a long, long time away. If the Cubs want Zobrist now, they’re going to have to blow Billy away, like the White Sox always do.
Zobrist right now is doing ok, but not that well that it’s gonna take a deal that blows Beane away to get him to trade Zobrist. It’s still gonna take something reasonable, but with Zobrist becoming a free agent after this year and coming off an injury, expecting something huge for him isn’t all that likely. Also, I don’t see how you see the A’s being more buyers right now than sellers with a 19-32 record and 12 games behind 1st place. Obviously they haven’t given up on the season yet, but for them to become buyers before the trade deadline would require them to go on a huge hot streak and for the Astros to go into a huge slump.
They’ve lost 14 1-run games this year. That’s just insane. This team is actually not bad at all and if they had won half of those they’d be 26-25, which is about where their pythag has them, which would be right in the mix for the WC. Beane’s plan this year was to go all-in with Zobrist, Clippard, Kazmir & O’Flaherty all gone at the end of the year. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if they were the dark horse to trade for Chapman, who they finished 2nd behind the Reds in Aroldis’s picks for who had the best offer for him.
If they had won half of those games, then you could say they were in contention. But they didn’t win them and right now sit dead last in the AL West. With the way they’re going, being buyers does nothing for them but drain away prospects leaving them little for next year. Someone like Chapman on their team now wouldn’t be an ideal move since he’s not gonna be enough to boost the A’s out of the cellar they’re in.
Actually the bullpen has been an absolute trainwreck and has single-handedly caused MOST of those 1-run losses. Chapman would stop the bleeding. The A’s have rarely been blown out and usually have lost 8th+9th inning leads.
The A’s bullpen as a whole has been terrible. Worst in the majors with a 4.79 ERA, 28th in saves, 5th in HRs allowed, 27th in opponent OBP, 28th in opponent SLG, and 29th in opponent OPS. Chapman alone won’t be enough to push the A’s into contention based on how things have been going for them so far.
zobrist is a 34 year old on the last year of his contract having a down year—it’s absolutely asinine to believe he could net a top prospect—Snoochies is right that Almora may be on the table for a Zobrist + Clippard deal—I’d say Corey Black is not a bad idea as the other person coming back from us on that deal though I’d prefer to send back Trevor Clifton and think Almora+Clifton for Zobrist(34 on a 1 year deal w no draft comp attached to acquiring team) and Clippard is the deal to get it done…you are WAY overvaluing Zobrist..and your ML players as a whole for that matter…
Hold on. First of all, how is anyone overshadowed by Dan Vogelbach? The dude is a DH. Second, Almora, despite his great instincts defensively, won’t take a walk – one of the same problems Baez has. I think if the Cubs want to win, they will need to pony up some real talent. And while that might be tough to swallow, it’s reality.
Who is the real talent in this trade? I am a HUGE fan of Zobrist but no one is going to give up real talent for an aging super utility guy who is a FA this year. You give up real talent for a rental when it is a top tier starter who you hope to resign or a power bat.
I think the cubs trade baez to get zobrist they dont need kazmir
Baez doesn’t fit into the Oakland philosophy, like at all.
Kazmir would be a better option right now over others (Hendricks comes to mind) and provide some decent stability to the rotation.
Hendricks FIP/xFIP: 3.64/3.76
Kazmir FIP/xFIP: 3.88/3.75
Kazmir’s ERA is aided by a lower BABIP and higher LOB%. He is more expensive and has injury red flags. Kazmir would be an upgrade, but he’d be replacing Wada (who has been excellent so far but only in 2 starts, and can reasonably be expected to be very good for a bottom-of-rotation starter but not as good as Kazmir overall).
Who else would Oakland include in that trade? Baez for Zobrist is quite one-sided.
Schwarber and McKinney – Clippard, Reddick, and Zobrist
This is the most fair trade proposal I’ve seen in here, but I think Schwarber is off limits. Otherwise, putting aside my homerism, I think this could actually happen.
That’s close. Add in Almora or Alcantará and it gets closer to realistic.
almora/baez for zobrist/clippard
No way you give up Baez’s ceiling, especially with the excellent signs he is showing in AAA, for two struggling half-season rentals. No way you trade Almora when he is struggling to the point of having no real value.
Cubs have no place to put Baez though Russell is at 2B, Castro is at SS so the way i see it Baez is expendable. For Almora since he’s been struggling it would be as though Baez is the only solid piece in that package unless Almora managed to turn it around. For the A’s side of that proposal Zobrist was playing injured the first quarter of the season and that’s the reason for his struggles. But now he’s healthy and the versatility he provides is rare and valuable considering he can play all over the field and he’s an Offensive/Defensive upgrade over Coughlin in LF. Lastly Clippard has been one of the best setup men/closer in baseball not just this year (2.53 ERA this season) but throughout his career (2.86 career ERA) and would give the Cubs stability and dependability in the late stages of games.
Bryant could easily move to left, or Castro could be traded to make room for Baez’s superior ceiling. Russell will be SS in the future. Almora struggling is exactly why you don’t trade him – why give up a first round pick who has still been extremely young for his level all throughout his career and could turn it around at a point where he brings you nothing due to poor performance? I was referring to Clippard’s rough peripherals this year, which suggest quite a bit of poor pitching and luck to keep his ERA that low.
the cubs could make a package to get sonny gray but I doubt they will
Gray’s untouchable and A’s wouldn’t trade him since he’s young 25, team controlled for 4 years, and he’s an ace. The Cubs would have to give up a huge package of prospects centered around Kyle Schwarber and Javier Baez.
I don’t think anyone in an A’s uniform in untouchable.
He’s far past his prime….
Come on guys have some common sense…cubs aren’t going trade any of there big time prospects for a 34 year player….i do believe they want zobrist but it would have to be for some second and third level guys they would give up
I would love to see the Cubs add Zobrist. I think that his experience in playoff races could help the youth of the Cubs this year plus he seems like a good clubhouse guy for the chemistry of the team. With his versatility he can play multiple positions on the field whether that is the outfield or the infield which is what the Cubs need right now because different people are slumping and/or getting hurt.