The Phillies have been trying to sell the Red Sox on a reunion with Jonathan Papelbon in light of Koji Uehara’s decline in velocity, reports the Boston Globe’s Nick Cafardo. Uehara’s average heater is down to 86.2 mph, according to Fangraphs, which is leading to an alarming reliance on his splitter — a pitch he’s thrown upwards of 85 percent of the time this season, per PITCHf/x. Cafardo looks up and down the Sox roster, noting that uncertainty abounds not only in the rotation, but in the lineup as well.
More from Boston and the AL East…
- Tony La Russa’s handling of super utility player Tony Phillips in the late 1980s has served as at least somewhat of a blueprint for Red Sox manager John Farrell’s usage of Brock Holt, writes WEEI.com’s Rob Bradford. La Russa spoke with Bradford about the importance of using a player like Phillips (or Holt) to keep the rest of the lineup fresh, particularly when that versatile asset is one of the team’s better hitters. Holt may or may not be one of Boston’s top bats — the lineup is loaded with talent, after all — but it’s hard to look past the .293/.344/.397 line he’s tallied dating back to Opening Day 2014.
- Brendan Kennedy of the Toronto Star details the Blue Jays’ decision to part ways with embattled left-hander Ricky Romero. GM Alex Anthopoulos explained to Kennedy that the Blue Jays didn’t feel Romero would recover from a double knee operation in time to contribute by season’s end, and they therefore opted to part with in order to “give him the opportunity to get a head start somewhere else.” Romero did not request his release from Toronto, per Anthopoulos, who spoke highly of a pitcher who was formerly seen as a building block in Toronto. “He’s done everything we’ve asked him to do,” said Anthopoulos. “He’s worked tremendously hard. We don’t have anything but the highest praise for the way he’s gone about it…” The GM added that to this day, he’s still not sure if anyone has an explanation as to what caused the chronic knee problems that seemed to derail Romero’s career.
- The decision to re-acquire Jimmy Paredes after first losing him on waivers to the Royals is paying off significantly for the Orioles, writes MASNsports.com’s Steve Melewski. Baltimore lost Paredes to waivers last offseason and acquired him for cash in July. Since that time, he’s batted a collective .352/.374/.636 with the O’s. Paredes won’t sustain a BABIP near .400, but he’s shown more power than most likely expected and could be a valuable utility piece going forward.
I have an idea… how about the Red Sox and Phillies just STOP talking? There are 28 other teams. Talk to them. Both sides are too stubborn at the moment.
Because Boston has needs that Philly can provide – and Philly is one of the only teams that are truly out of contention, so they are willing to sell right now. In fact, they are perfect trade partners. Philly is just waiting for Boston to become predictably more desperate as their pitching staff collapses, which has always been the smart play.
Finally. Thank you. So many people are bagging Amaro Jr, but i feel he has correctly played the waiting game in this one.
That is Amaro’s only game.. the waiting game.. How about Howard, Utley, Rollins ETC, which should have been moved ages ago (I understand about no trade clauses). All these players and more should have been moved last off-season, or even mid-season.
Howard could never be moved. Utley refused to be traded and he got good players for Rollins. I don’t understand your point here.
Weren’t many ways to do that after contracts signed during Phil’s heyday.
Rollins got 10/5 rights before final extension and was adamant: no trade. Howard ruptured achilles on final play of 2011 and became untradeable. Utley was injured every season, first jammed thumb, then knees. Chooch had 50 game adderall suspension, then concussion.
Moving Cliff Lee for salary relief was the only realistic move they could have done while they struggled through injury plagued 2012.
Rollins was consistently unwilling to waive his 10-and-5, so not much amaro can do about that to be fair. Howard is unmovable due to the contract he did or didn’t earn, everyone has their own opinion, it was a combination of a passable (yet maybe questionable) signing and some terrible luck. Utley doesn’t want to go, maybe the yankees should have traded derek jeter, but utley is the face of the franchise and i agree with the decision to keep him. Hence i don’t see how they are the same.
If the Red Sox were to trade for Hamels, who would he replace? Buchholz and his implosions? Masterson and his 88 mph fastball? Miley and his erratic command? No single trade is going to dramatically change the complexion of the rotation, nor would the addition of Papelbon address the 6th and 7th inning meltdowns.
I’ve said from the start that this Red Sox team has potential, but that it isn’t yet ready for the prime time. Hamels should go to a team that is contending this year.
Hamels is only one guy, correct. But he can help by taking pressure off the other guys. Sometimes that’s as important as anything.
Maybe? However Buchholz wasn’t any more consistent when Lester was around, and that isn’t going to help Masterson’s fastball. I don’t think that makes enough of a difference in this case.
The Phillies have been trying to sell the Red Sox on a reunion
Really is this true? If so only from the brilliant mind of Reuben Amaro would spring forth such a brilliant idea.
Pap has said he should have never left Boston…. I’m not sure if that has anything to do with it or not. It is Cafardo too, y’know, so I’m not sure I’d put much belief into this rumour.
If it’s not boston, how about the tigers.
Blue jays could use him too
they have a nice closer right now in castro
Expecting to contend for the whole season with a 20 y/o closer with no prior experience above A+ is risky… He’s looked great so far but have to think the blue jays wouldn’t say no to an upgrade.
Phillies could package Pap with another reliever for a nice package if the Tigers were interested.
Cafardo has been writing about Hamels to the Red Sox at least once a week since November. A month or so ago it came out that the Red Sox and Phillies had not discussed Hamels in months, but he just keeps writing anyway. It’s funny. A soap opera that isn’t.
That is Cafardo for ya.
What would the Phillies even want for Papelbon? I know he has said that he wants to play for Boston again, but I’m not sure a reunion makes sense with his personality, etc. Perhaps a deal could happen in combination with a Hamels deal, but that wouldn’t happen until the deadline, and would add a ton in payroll.
I think they were saying they would eat about half of this years salary but not next years.
Only way take Papelbon’s 13m and the 13m he probably wants picked up for next year is for Amaro to take the 25m owed for Craig and nothing else in exchange in return.. Both have the same use.
I’d rather see Matt Barnes used as a reliever only over multiple innings than Papelbon and his now 91mph FB in Boston. Barnes can give 2-3IP at 94-6mph, an improvement over Ross and several others still hanging around. Stop the rotation thing. They need him now right there.
Agree. Barnes should be the next closer. He was good the other night and then was shipped back to Pawtucket. Koji is either used up or too tired for the role right now. DL him and bring him back as a set up man before Farrell wears out Tazawa.
I’m not seeing that at all. Phillies will want prospects for trades until their roster is cleared out a bit more. If they do not find a trade partner for Pap, and he is his usual self all season, it wouldn’t surprise me a bit to see Phillies let his option vest, then trade him next year with some cash and no option in place… JUST to get prospects in return.
I have nothing against Craig, and wouldn’t mind seeing him play for a year, but right now his contract is way more overpriced than Pap’s. Of course, Craig plus 2 prospects might work as salary relief for Boston.
Papelbon has hit 94 this year, just not as often; if that’s all important. For the right prospects, the Phils could take back a bad contract, even 2.
Hamels, Papelbon, any relief pitcher not named Giles and Domonic Brown for Rodriguez, Escobar, Marrero, Margot, Vazquez, JBJ, Miley, and Craig. Lot of changes of address for players in need of them.
Phils could shore up Detroit bullpen same way, although Tigers don’t have the rated prospects like the Sox.
In what way is trading an effective closer for an aging hitter with no position “the same use”?
“Here, you take the worthless guy, we take the effective player and you save no money. Deal?” Sounds like something Buster Olney would suggest.
I think the payroll would be one of the biggest reasons why a Hamels/Pap combo deal likely wouldn’t happen, let alone the sticking point between the two teams when it comes to prospects. I do agree though, in that if any deal does come between the two teams for anyone, it’s likely to happen at the deadline and not any sooner.
I’m sure holt won’t maintain his .500 BABIP either.
Nobody ever said he would. They are looking at him producing around the same level as last season.. His rookie year with maybe a touch extra at most, then playing 7 positions on top of it and would consider it excellent.
They are looking at him producing around the same level as last season..
His stats were inflated last year too. (.382 BABIP in the first half) Which is why he struggled so mightily in the second half. He’s a nice utility player. But hardly worth the amount of posts he gets.
Paredes has “shown more power than most likely expected”. I’ll say. 1 HR per 52 PA last year in AAA. 1 HR per 12 PA this year in the bigs. I’m guessing that doubling of flyball rate isn’t a permanent thing. And I’m guessing we see a K rate that jumps about 100% going forward, too… Together with that BABIP regression, I don’t see the valuable piece going forward that you do.
He is such an athlete if he figures it out he could take off similar to Cain in KC.
Cain is not an apt comp. Cain never had that type of strikeout-walk rate. Paredes has been north of 5:1. Cain’s MiLB career was spent around 2:1 or better. Cain was traded for an elite pitcher. Paredes was waived.
It’s a crazy comp to begin with, and it’s even crazier when you use it to suggest some sort of power breakthrough. Paredes’ unsustainable HR rate is triple that of Cain’s…
You are way to hung up on numbers and not looking at the actual players. Cain or Paredes will never be HR hitters but they will still pile up extra base hits. If you do want to use numbers though their minor league numbers are almost identical with the exception of the one stat you are picking out.
The one stat I’m picking out? Show me a guy with a 6-to-1 strikeout to walk ratio in the minors as a 25 year old, striking out a quarter of the time, that turned into something real in the majors. It’s not like this is insignificant.
None of this is real. Not the HR rate. Not the strikeout rate. Not the BABIP.
I think the whole point with Paredes is he is no longer the player he used to be in the minor leagues. The Orioles love giving chances to guys reaching a prime age where they start figuring it out, says Buck. I think that’s the point with Paredes; not that an only above-average player is now raking at the major league level, but rather that a toolsie young guy is putting it together. Of course he will regress, and his defense isnt very good. However, he has been raking since last August/September. If you watch him every day like I do you start to marvel at the pitches he hits. Not to mention hes a switch hitter. Think what you want, but for the time being hes an absolute stud who is winning ballgames for the Orioles. And thats all that matters.
No. That’s not “all that matters”. He was called a “valuable” piece going forward. His 36 PA don’t matter going forward. They guy is who he is.
“Raking since last August/September”? Oh, you mean the 32 games in AAA that he hit .258 with a 82 wRC+? Raking? C’mon. Or the cup of coffee he had in the bigs? Sigh.
I don’t think you can make a case after 36 PA (or 91 if we’re going to pretend that late-season callups matter) that somebody has put it all together and is no longer the same player as he was for his previous 3397 PA.
If you want to bet your house on a 2.6% sample size of a guy’s career that suddenly he’s a different player, you’re going to find yourself homeless way more often than not. The guy was waived 3 times in the last 18 months. Let’s hold off on the statue.
It seems that youre the one being dramatic. And really, the player he is now IS all that matters so calm the Paredes hating. Have you been watching him play? Go ahead, watch the Orioles games for the next few weeks.
I guess you just don’t understand what “going forward” means. I apologize for assuming that piece of information. That’s where a lot of the confusion lies.
I’m sorry, but you’re wrong.
Would it take more then a 5 to 10 org. ranked pick to get Papelbon and that large 2 year contract?
I think if the Red Sox offered something in the range the Phillies would have to be ecstatic. A Brian Johnson or Matt Barnes for Pap is probably too much from the Red Sox. As a phillies fan i would love a Sean Coyle + Edwin Escobar, with the phillies kicking in half of this years salary.
What do you think would be realistic from the Jays. They need someone like Paps. Philly would need to eat cash, Jays are capped.
Im not sure i can see it happening with the Jays. They can’t add even a quarter of Pap’s salary, and they won’t give up the prospects required for Philly to eat all that money. IMO
As a Red Sox fan, I think I’d do something like that.
Yea that seems like a real fair trade.
I know it’s not in the topic but, I watched MLB Now earlier, mark derosa said the cards should go out and trade for scott kazmir
Why are the Athletics throwing in the towel 10 games in?
I remember something saying the A’s would consider trading Kazmir even if they were still in contention.
I agree with that sentiment, but I still think its far to early. Maybe mid-season, if they are hovering around wild card i could easily see Beane doing it. But not right now.
I think they will, AFTER they see what the two guys coming back from last season’s TJ surgery have to offer. If they are not ready by trade deadline the A’s hold him but if they are clicking on all cylinders then a trade of Kazmir is likely.
Papelbon has a reasonable amount of value. There’s no reason for RA to just dump him, plus salary, just for the sake of getting him out the door. If there’s a team out there willing to pay a decent price (decent, not the moon) he should consider it. If not, he might as well wait. The idea that you flip Papelbon for a non-performing bad contact is a bad one. He’s an effective piece, expensive, but effective.
Between injuries and guys having poor seasons, quality relief pitchers are becoming move valuable by the day. Happens every year.
Tigers closer is set with Soria, but the rest of their bullpen is a mess.
Papelbon’s vesting option kicks in for games FINISHED.
Can Tigers get him, avoid that vesting by making him the 8th inning guy, and still keep him happy on a “contender”?
WIn/Win/Win deal?
Problem is Paps has a no trade clause. I’m not entirely certain the extent of the NTC (how many and which teams, etc.). It’s possible that he may have to waive his NTC. If he knows he’s going to a team that won’t use him as a closer, he may not waive the NTC. At least that’s what he indicated in previous years. I guess anything can change.
While that very well may be true, them I don’t want to hear Papelbon complaining about wanting out of Philly.
Oh yeah, no doubt. I totally agree. That’s Paps being Paps as they say.
Why? I mean sure I don’t like the complaining but he wants to close on a winning team. I think he’d rather stay in Philly if he won’t close for a winning team.
Since he would want his 2016 option to vest to remove his no trade clause, Detroit should pass. They don’t need him bad enough to pay those $$$ and he would be toxic in the clubhouse. They may want to look at K-Rod with the Brewers.
The other bullpen guys for PHI speak GLOWINGLY about Papelbon. K-Rod was hated by Mets teammates, especially after assaulting a family member in one of the team areas. But Papelbon is toxic and K-Rod isn’t…
Did not know about the Mets issue-thanks for the info. Seems like both have issues.
I honestly do not see Papelbon both losing his starting job and, as a result, losing his vesting, and being happy about it.
You touched on something, here. Perhaps GMs are reluctant to acquire Papelbon because of his potential “unhappiness.”
Your euphemism was apparently more acceptable to the gatekeepers.
It’s a shame that Romero had to lose out on his prime like that. He was my favorite kind of pitcher: absolutely brilliant against everyone but Boston.
Red Sox starting to see that their more Trash than Quality on this over- hyped Team !
Still plenty of season left. I always doubted their pitching but Cherington made a mistake by not improving the bullpen. Especially since the Rotation figures to be weak.
Don’t disagree. Every winter the Red Sox make splashy moves with name players, and almost every year there are holes in the teams game and the chemistry isn’t there once the season starts. It appears to me that Cashman and the Yankees moved in the correct direction last winter; and the Friedman Dodgers did the right thing by beginning to offload some contacts, while redoing their up-the-middle defense and rebuilding their bullpen with little known pitchers….and while the bullpen is much improved at a reasonable cost, they’re still working on it. The Red Sox won the offseason between the 3 teams, it appears the other 2 teams will win more 2015.
Friedman has made some bad moves, and to compare, Cashman did the right thing by not signing McCarthy to a multi-year contract,. Cashman was criticized by everyone from fans to front offices about that but McCarthy reminded us already how injury prone he is. Cashman has done a much better job maintaining and upgrading his pitching staff then Cherington. Still kind of early to be to grade Freidman though. But he did good offloading Kemp’s contract.
Wow, just imagine how we’ll all feel when we actually have enough data to judge the season.
Understandable…..
Some rely on data, some watch the teams play and can see what’s coming. Not at all difficult if one has been following MLB for more then a few years and understands how the game is played – and that it’s not about the stats of individual players and the data they create. It’s why the majority couldn’t figure how the Orioles and Royals got in the ALC series in 2014, and the Royals and Giants got in the WS. The data sure didn’t match.
So you can predict the outcome of the season based on 1/10th of a season? Good luck with that. The Orioles and the Royals got into the playoffs because they won a lot of baseball games. The data need not be any more complicated than that. Sine we can’t use what we have now to accurately predict what we will see in September, then it is too soon to judge any team.
Hey;
When teams are missing, it’s obvious to their front offices. So they go out during the season and make acquisitions.
If you’re a Red Sox fan you must know this. They have turned over at least 1/3 of their opening day roster for decades. They’ve thrown in the towel 2 of the last 3 years. They don’t wait till the end of the year to see how the data is coming in.
No one said they would or should. Just that the success or failure of this team cannot be predicted after 1/10th of a season. They may go out and get someone and do really well, or fail. They may do nothing. They may promote someone from the minors and do really well or fail. But to call this team a failure at this point or overhyped without having any idea how they’ll finish the season is premature to say the least.
The opening day 2015 Sox roster was an unfinished painting to begin with. Those finishing touches will be critical, but it is certainly way too soon to throw in the towel.
Whoever is playing best in September will be most important.
True. And the fact that there are several notable players who will improve in the meantime and other things like injuries that cannot possibly be predicted.