“They’re trying to blow the whole thing up. Everyone is for sale,” a rival executive tells CSNPhilly.com’s Jim Salisbury about the Phillies’ offseason plans. The Phils will listen to offers on any player, though Cole Hamels and Ken Giles would require the most in return. The rival exec wasn’t sure if the Phillies would find that desired price for Hamels, though he predicted that Ryan Howard and Marlon Byrd would be moved this offseason. “Detroit and Cincinnati are two teams to watch on Byrd,” Salisbury writes.
Here’s some more from the City of Brotherly Love…
- The Royals have had internal discussions about acquiring Howard if the Phillies cover most of the $60MM remaining on Howard’s contract, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reports. Kansas City sees Howard as a possible replacement for Billy Butler at the DH spot. UPDATE: The Royals’ interest in Howard is overblown, a source tells Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com.
- The Phillies haven’t yet made an offer to Yasmany Tomas, agent Jay Alou told reports (including Salisbury). Alou said that he and GM Ruben Amaro spoke today and negotiations are ongoing between the two sides. Alou cited the Phils as one of “several teams that I could say are frontrunners” for Tomas, and noted that the Phillies had seen the outfielder work out a second time since his private workout for the club in September.
- Amaro hasn’t spoken to Jimmy Rollins about the shortstop waiving his 10-and-5 rights to facilitate a trade to another team, Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports. “If it is ever the right time, I will have the conversation, but Jimmy will be the one who decides where he is going,” Amaro said.
- A trade of Domonic Brown for Jeremy Hellickson would make sense for both the Phillies and Rays, Ryan Lawrence of the Philadelphia Daily News opines. Lawrence makes it clear that he is just engaging in idle speculation about this proposed deal, as there is no evidence the Phillies are the NL team reportedly close to acquiring Hellickson.
if the phillies front office can actually substantially remake the roster and replace aging, injured, and overpaid players with younger talent, more power to them.
Well, Ryan Lawrence and I are on the same page.
I get the theory behind it, but, by principle, I have a tough time selling Dom this offseason (because his value appears to be at the lowest it’s ever been, and very likely, will ever be). And, honestly, I thought that Hellickson was going to get non-tendered, so it’s kind of shocking (to me) that teams don’t just try and wait the Rays out – and trade for him after he signs a new contract (if he does).
What makes you think that Dom Brown’s 2013 wasn’t the outlier? He was handed the job at least twice, if not three, times before he had a solid season in ’13 — and then appeared to lose all of his power in the 2nd half of the season. Then he was all but invisible in ’14. The Phillies need MLB-ready starting pitching badly enough that I’d jump that deal in a heartbeat if offered.
He wasn’t handed the job any time before the 2013 season. He broke his hamate bone in 2011 in spring training – and didn’t see the MLB field till late May. He slashed .250/.340/.400 in his first 50 games (not bad for a rookie coming off hamate injury) – and the Phillies promptly traded for Pence. So they sent him down to AAA. In 2012, they had Pence and Ibanez signed (and were paying them about $30 M), so he started the year in AAA and had a various assortment of injuries before getting called up.
Hellickson helps if you think the Phillies can compete in the next 2 years (which no one does). It makes no point to sell Brown now – even if you believe 2013 was the outlier (by the way, he’s a line drive hitter, so he should really be hitting 35+ doubles not HR).
I don’t if I’m the Rays. I would have more faith in Hellickson being a regular player even if it’s a backend starter than Brown being a regular.
Oh come on…don’t trade Giles. We need SOMEONE to build the bullpen around.
You shouldn’t really be building a bullpen around anyone – given the volatility of relievers (by nature). You go with cheap arms who have the potential to be dominant – but if someone makes you an insane offer, there is no reason to hang on to a bullpen guy.
If you aren’t contending then Giles should be the first one moved. They come and go so often.
Not when he has 5-6 years of team control, and is the best reliever the Phillies have produced not name Ryan Madson. They shouldn’t “build” around him, but they shouldn’t trade him after 2011-2013’s bullpens.
They should if they don’t plan on contending for awhile. Don’t have to move him asap, but he should be moved.
I’d trade anyone on the roster. The price on Giles would have to be high though he has Craig Kimbrel type stuff.
I’d be pushing Diekman though. I think he could fetch a good return with the type of stuff he has.
If the Phillies dont unload Howard for whatever they can get they deserve to lose for the next 3 seasons. Even saving 5-10mil and getting some marginal prospect back would be much better than having Howard on the lineup every night.
Can they even save that much? Even if the Phillies ate 100% of the contract and asked for a bag of balls in return, I can’t imagine too many teams being interested in him
If the Phillies released Ryan Howard tomorrow, and he would be available for the league minimum to every MLB team, I’d bet 2/3 of the AL teams would try to get him. That’s essentially the scenario you set up.
I would. League minimum you basically just cut him at end of ST if you don’t like it.
I think we’ll be surprised at the level of interest in Ryan Howard, simply because of the fact that he will be coming very, very cheap for his next team…Teams aren’t going to give up TOP talent to get him, but as offense continues to be hard to come by, particularly in this years FA class of hitters, I think half the AL will be willing to toss in a prospect for an (essentially) already paid for Ryan Howard
“I think we’ll be surprised at the level of interest in Ryan Howard, simply because of the fact that he will be coming very, very cheap for his next team”
Not sure about that with RAJ as the GM. Knowing him, he’d ask other teams to pay for 3/4th of Howard’s salary minimum. Of course the latter part here is a joke but the former part isn’t.
That’s the thing. I’m convinced that Gillick is pulling the strings now and that’s why the team is undergoing the rebuild. With Montgomery out on medical, Gillick makes the moves and takes the PR hit for now. I don’t think there’s a person in Philly, either with the team or not, who trusts Amaro to engineer an overhaul of this roster.
yea, as unattractive as Howard’s production has been, I still think a trade is in the works…Even if Ruben gets back a low-level prospect, that’s one step better than just releasing him and getting nothing…
Howard has had an oWAR of .5 over the last 3 years. Even if the Phillies paid all of his salary, what kind of prospect would they get back in return for that level of production?
that WAR was mainly based on his poor defense, so as a DH, he would provide a better WAR, and overall offense production.
If you haven’t caught up with AL teams, only 2 DH’s had more than Howard’s 95 RBI. V-Mart and Ortiz. That’s it…
I HAVE to believe if the Phillies ate 50-55 Million, there would be quite a few AL teams interested… (Royals, Indians, A’s, Angels, Rangers, Mariners, Rays, Orioles, White Sox and Tigers)
That was his offensive WAR, not overall WAR. And who cares about RBI’s???? And that number is deceiving, because not many AL DH’s ONLY play DH. So guys like Nelson Cruz aren’t eligible for your criteria. Which is why many of those teams wouldn’t be interested in a guy like Howard. Teams like the Orioles want options from their players, so they don’t go with a strict DH only type player for a roster spot.
It doesn’t matter that much if we don’t get much back. He is a huge impediment to moving forward. We need to see what we really have in Ruff,Franco,Asche etc.. by giving them a chance to play regularly.
I would never argue that if the Phillies wanted to pay all of Howard’s salary and give him away for nothing, some AL team wouldn’t let him come to spring training.
I’m not expecting much at all, really, which is why I think he might draw some interest: 1) Phillies will be paying most of his money just to facilitate a deal and 2) They additionally will not be asking for a top prospect in return…For this reason I think that, even with his horrendous numbers and declining production, it will be a very low-risk opportunity for an AL team to give him a change of scenery
I’m just spitballin’ here, but wouldn’t it make sense to package Howard with Hamels and make someone else pay his salary in return for have to put fewer prospects into the trade? In other words: doing substantially what the Red Sox did to get rid of Carl Crawford? It just seems like that’s better than paying most of Howard’s salary to play for someone else in exchange for a C-prospect.
No, it would not make sense. Phillies aren’t hurting to get rid of money. They are hurting for prospects. Using your best trade chip, and diminishing it’s value to the point where the prospects would (potentially) go from 2 top 100 guys, and 2 more in the organizational top 10 – to 1 top 100 and another organizational top 10 is not worth saving ~$50 M. Phillies have already announced they have shifted their focus towards 2017 – the time when Howard’s money comes off the books. They are committed to paying him.
No. Phillies (although the Howard contract is awful), don’t need the money off the books. It would help for sure, but not at the price of giving up Hamels without getting 2-3 pieces to build around in the future.
Yea, I definitely see what you’re saying here and I actually thought that this might be a possibility…well, the only possibility of getting Howard out of town and getting some talent back would be to package him with Hamels…But, as the guys below me have mentioned, money right now is not the issue; the Phils are prepared to essentially pay Ryan Howard to play for another team, and keep Hamels as a separate piece in order to maximize his value…They are asking for a lot right now for Hamels, I’m sure, but when the top 3 sign their FA deals and Hamels has time to consider his trade destination(s), I think negotiations between the Phils and Cubs/Red Sox/Dodgers will work their way back to a comfortable middle-ground and get done
Because Hamels and Howard would have negative trade value. Who would want to pay like $160MM+ to just get Hamels?
yanks need a ss stop Jimmy to Yanks
Or they could sign like one of the 5 shortstops on the market.
Cliff Lee to the Yankees for Jesus Montero + other prospects. Oh wait..
At this point, that’s probably a fair trade now still LOL.
Wow I’d love to see Howard in a Royals uniform!
I don’t think Kauffman Stadium is the best place for him to try to find his batting stroke. He needs to go to a team with a hitter’s park, preferably one that favors a left-hander. Guys like Howard who consistently pull and hit the ball in the air don’t do well in KC.
Howard’s power is to left/left center. He pulls most of his groundballs and line drives, but his power plays best with a short left field porch.
Oh another left-handed hitter in the Royal line-up.
That’s exactly what they need in order to defeat the Giants or any other team that has a super-star ‘lefty’ in their starting rotation! =P
If we would’ve stayed with what got us there we would’ve won. We stopped bunting and stopped running, taking Aoki out for all 3 games in San Fran wasn’t the smartest thing to do either. I’d still take Howard and be happy with it! I think he could hit 30. We beat good lefties before so I’m not worried about that.
Yea, the Phils will seemingly eat a vast majority, if not all, of that Howard contract, so that does open up the possibilities that he can go to any AL team regardless of market size/payroll. It’s just tough to stomach the idea of Howard as DH because he’s dismal against that shift
Why would the Rays, who have 3 everyday outfielders (DJ, Kiermeier, Joyce) plus 3 backups (Guyer, DeJesus, Zobrist) on their active roster, need Dominic Brown? You trade from your depth to fill holes (power, backup C, backup INF).
What value does Byrd have at this point? Not sure why the Tigers would trade for him instead of signing Torii at a similar number… or Ichiro at a smaller number.
Still a good defender and hits for power. Two things neither Torii or Ichiro are known for. Last year, Byrd was a 2 WAR player – combined, Hunter and Ichiro were 0.7. That’s a large difference.
If he can play center field then Detroit should have a strong interest. I don’t think he can man center now, can he? If not then they need to look at Revere.
Everyone on the team should be considered, except Rollins. If there is a player on the team that, if he wants, should retire a Philly its Rollins. Look at his career stats for this team. He is the main reason we have that championship carrying the team on his back through August, September and October. If you look at his stats as a shortstop/hitter/runner they are unmatched by almost every other person to play the shortstop position in Major League history. All was done here in Philly. Howard can go, he got the big contract, got injured and was never the same threat. Utley is a great player but he is not what you think of when you think of a Philly. Philly is tough and not intimidated by anyone just like Rollins. He needs to retire a Philly!