To say it’s been an eventful few days in the NL East would be a colossal understatement, as the Marlins have reportedly finalized a record-setting 13-year deal with Giancarlo Stanton and the Braves have traded Jason Heyward to the Cardinals. While those transactions are rightfully dominating the headlines, here are a few more notes from around the division…
- With Heyward now in St. Louis, Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweets that a trade of Justin Upton can’t be ruled out. Nightengale lists the Mariners as a strong suitor for Upton, should the Braves decide to market him. Upton recently dropped the Mariners from his no-trade list.
- Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria tells Manny Navarro of the Miami Herald that he plans to surround Stanton with an improved lineup and can afford to go out and add a bat to hit behind him this offseason.
- The Nationals have hired veteran scout Terry Wetzel as a special assistant to GM Mike Rizzo, reports MLB.com’s Tracy Ringolsby. Wetzel has 32 years of experience, including 17 seasons with the Royals and the past 15 seasons with the Rockies. He was named scout of the year once within each of those organizations.
- The Mets, to this point, have had very few inquiries on pitchers Bartolo Colon, Jon Niese and Dillon Gee, reports Mike Puma of the New York Post (Twitter link). All three are said to be potentially available this winter, and I’d imagine that interest will pick up to an extent, particularly at the Winter Meetings.
If I were in the mets shoes I would wait until the “big 3” leave the market.
I am not sure if these particular Mets pitchers are even desirable on the market. Colon is durable, but not exactly good. Niese and Gee are pretty good end-of-rotation options, but neither comes with cost-control anymore.
Well, they could likely trade them for offensive players that are of the same caliber. That’s what they should expect and that’s what they really need.
The Mets need to go for it next season while the Braves, Phils and Marlins will all be rebuilding. Raise the payroll over 100 mil and go get a SS.
Cano, Upton, Seager seems like a pretty legit 3-4-5 to me. At least Cano would get some pitches to drive and maybe reach the 20-25 homer mark again!
Add Gattis to that lineup and it actually looks very potent. Wouldn’t seem unreasonable if the Mariners were willing to include Peterson or Wilson in their talks.
Maybe Wilson, but I don’t think Peterson should be added. He is still the potential 1B of the future. I think they would include multiple prospects in the deal on top of Walker though. Some that come to mind are guys like Kivlehan and Pike.
On the flip side, what would the Braves do with Peterson. They already have 1B covered for quite a long time.
And the Mariners could take BJ Upton’s contract too. That might help a deal for Justin Upton and Gattis at the same time.
Upton to dbacks haha jk
Wonder what the Braves would ask for from the Mariners? More pitching?
Everyone says Walker would be the one, but Iwakuma may be the one to be traded, along with either Miller or Taylor and at least a decent prospect.
If the Braves are trading Upton, they’re not going after a pitcher with one year of control left. D.J. Peterson would be a very interesting piece for the Braves.
I dunno if the M’s would be that willing to depart with Peterson though, but I could be very wrong, it is Seattle after all. lol
They may not want to move him. But I can’t see the Braves trading Upton for one year of Iwakuma. That doesn’t seem to accomplish anything for them.
It is a rental for a rental basically, but I see what you’re saying for sure
Braves need to plan more for the future. The chances of making it next year are slim. For Upton, they’ll be looking for cost-controlled pieces, or promising prospects.
Braves aren’t looking for a rental though, and I think more teams would be willing to give them prospects for Upton. If they sent Heyward out they know they are out of it next year. No point giving up Upton for a rental. Someone will give up prospects for Upton.
Braves have the bargaining chip. They don’t need to give up their run-producer for another arm in a rotation that looks set. They easily could sign Harang or someone of that caliber to a short-term deal, even if they felt like they wanted more depth behind Hale, Medlen, Beachy, etc.
Everyone knows how badly SEA needs power, so if they want it, either go out and sign it or give up something decent for it – rental or not. That stadium turns power-hitters into double-hitters (i.e. Cano).
Safeco doesn’t work like that. It turns homers and doubles into outs. Cano’s problem was he hit the ball on the ground way more. There was a joke early on that the M’s re-signed Ichiro because was getting so many infield singles.
They can’t easily resign Harang. He isn’t going to agree to another one year contract the way he did last year. I’m sure the Braves will make an offer but even 3 years is a huge risk for a player who is 35 and just put up the best season of his career. There are to many teams who will certainly offer Harang more than what the Braves middle market finances will allow. Santana was so-so this year, and he is an even worse deal. He is looking for 4 or 5 years and will probably get it and his track record is almost as bad as Harangs. The Braves have a bevy of arms even after this but Beachy, Medlen and Minor are all either recovering or recently recovered from TJ surgery. The rotation really is a need
A rental for a rental is not what the Braves are interested in. They don’t have the Mariners pay roll strength. They need controllable assets for a minimum of 3 years.
Peterson isn’t going anywhere at this point. The prospect that’s a little more ready is Kivlehan. I’m not sure he’s going at this point, but in the right deal, why not.
Saunders, Hicks and Ackley I think would be better pieces for the Braves. Saunders is supposedly in the doghouse but finished the year with a .791 OPS and plays a solid corner OF. The kid runs like an elk and when he gets his power stroke..
Ackley should be at 2nd base. He has the arm for 2nd but not really the OF.
Hick has about 30 games at AAA but is about ready to be a solid bu to starting MLB catcher.
I’m surprised you think this package would get Upton from the Braves. Ackley is offensively mediocre to bad. You have to go back to 2011 to get some okay production out of him. For 2014 his BA against lefties was .212, in 2012 his BA against righties was .215, so you can’t even know how to platoon the guy. Saunders had his first actual productive year this year and even that has caviettes to it. Saunders didn’t play a full season of at bats so who knows whether he would have regressed to his previous productiond and speaking of which was TERRIBLE!!!! Before 2014, he didn’t once bat better than .247 and he hit some pretty painful lows too. If all that wasn’t enough, the guy is even bad for club house chemistry and atmosphere! Now, as for Hicks. I admit I don’t know what his minor league production is like but if the above players is any indication of what you think is an exceptable return for the production Upton brings in, I imagine he won’t be enough. The Braves won’t part with Upton for a teams dregs. They will expect players with multiple years of team control, quality production at the plate, and/or blue chip prospects. Really look at J.Upton’s production since being a Brave and you can imagine the Braves are going to want a heavy return for it.
You are correct on that count. It could be Felix Hernandez being offered, but for just one year of control, it would be pointless. The Braves couldn’t retain him.
Walker or Iwakuma AND more? I think a straight up trade (Upton for Walker or Upton for Iwakuma) is very fair. Though I don’t see the Braves wanting Iwakuma since he’s going to be a FA too.
Good point, but the Braves could possibly want to sell high, though I agree a straight up trade would be more fair.
Since when has “fair” gotten a deal done?
Upton for Walker is very fair. Maybe another throw-in on Seattle’s side, and I could see the Braves pouncing.
It’s the Braves who would have to add. Upton is a one year rental. Walker is an elite SP prospect with 6 years of control. Maybe 5 now, but still.
The M’s say no to that deal. Walker won’t make through all his arbitration years as much as Upton makes next season alone. He has tons of excess value above his cost. By mid-2016 the Braves are almost certainly ahead in terms of value.
That’s what a trade usually involves; getting immediate value in return of long-term value. If the Braves’ll trade Upton, they’ll want a long term piece, with very good upside. Otherwise, they’re better off keeping him, extending a QO, and trying to compete next year.
Walker is not some AA player providing just future value, though. He is the Mariners’ current fourth starter who will also provide future value. Going from Steamer projections he’s projected to be worth 1.2 WAR next year for basically no money ($500k). Upton is projected for 3.2 WAR. Just for 2014 value, then, the M’s are really only getting 2 WAR net on that deal. Once you calculate the difference in salary, they will fully pay for those two wins. AND they’ll have to pay to replace Walker in the rotation. And for that (plus the comp pick) they should give up four to five more years of Walker?
I’m not saying the Mariners should make that trade, I’m just stating that the Braves’ll probably only trade Upton for something significant. Walker would be considered something “significant”. A guy like Kivlehan, not so much. If you want immediate value, you have to give up long term value. Just like the A’s did last year for Samardzija.
I think you are closer than some other suggestions but I dont think Walker alone would do it. Walker is tantalizing, but he has yet to pitch a full season. J.Upton is proven and Walker is not. With him you would probably have to add another piece, depending on the quality.
Yes, Kuma could be a possibility also. Mlb network proposed a trade of Kuma to Boston for Cespedes. Seems like a possibilty also
If the Braves are trading Upton they are looking for help beyond 2015. I really don’t think Iwakuma would be of interest to Atlanta.
If he is traded, I am willing to bet an extension would be a possibility as well
MLB network is crazy. Cespedes is a one year rental. Kuma is a top 20 SP in baseball. No match there at all.
Iwakuma isn’t going anywhere. I would say the Braves set the market with Miller and a prospect for Heyward and a RP. It seems there is more value in the cost controlled pitcher than the one year of MLB bat.
I have no issue with Walker getting moved, but there needs to be more value coming back the M’s way. The Braves need OF and C help if Gattis gets moved. Saunders or Ackley could go to Atlanta and Hicks is ready pretty much for the show. He’s a solid glove behind the plate that can hit a little. There is a match there somewhere.
Saunders and Ackley are both below average MLB players. I think a package for JUpton would need to include one of the Mariners top pos. prospects, ie. Peterson (3B) or Wilson(OF).
This year Michael Saunders posted 1.9 WAR in 78 games while Dustin Ackley posted 2.1 WAR in 143 games. Those numbers are not below average.
Fair enough, but they won’t get you someone of Upton’s caliber either.
Braves need offense and neither provide much help there. I don’t see how either is more than a 3rd or 4th piece in a trade.
Hilarious that Jack Z. throws his own (Saunders) under a bus publicly and now some seem to think he’s valuable enough to headline a major trade. His stock has taken a hit. He’s a nice piece, but that’s it.
Wow. Let’s look at Upton’s actual value. He’s getting $14.7 million next year. If he repeats his last season he’s about a 4 WAR player and therefore worth around $24 million (if wins are $6 million). Iwakuma repeats his last season he’s worth about $18 million, and getting paid $7 million making him quite the bargain dollar-wise. So Upton has $9.3 million excess value, Kuma $11 million. Since this is based on projections, and pitchers tend to get hurt more, that’s basically a wash.
Offense is definitely valued more highly nowadays, so maybe the M’s would have to add a relief pitcher to the deal, but not solid prospects in Miller, Taylor and then some. If the M’s could also get Gattis in the deal then I can see them parting with a guy like Peterson, Miller or Taylor as well.
If we could get someone like Peterson – a future 3B – I’d say pull the trigger. That would be the makings of a great IF with a solid rotation. Then we would need to focus on OF, but have a good chunk of change to play with.
Since Peterson is probably not a productive player until 2016 and has yet to face AAA pitching I would think Iwakuma plus Peterson (and change) for Upton and Gattis would be a good deal from the M’s perspective. Question: does Gattis have any defensive value? Can he actually play a decent catcher?
I hope the Braves would be looking for position prospects. They shouldn’t be looking for pitching since the Heyward trade.
Chris Taylor and a bp arm like Medina or Leone for Upton?
Braves really need OF help more than INF, although Taylor looks pretty solid. Not sure they need more bullpen arms either.
If the Mariners trade for Upton, then I am guessing they are out of the Nelson Cruz Sweepstakes. Plus, why are the Mets looking to trade pitching? I mean don’t they need all of them? I could see trading Colon, but Gee and Niese are decent innings eaters.
Are they even in the Nelson Cruz sweepstakes to begin with? I’d figure OFers would be on their mind more than a DH (yes Cruz has played OF, but everyone knows he’s pretty bad out there)
He’s not that bad. He’s not a gold glove, but he isn’t that bad and still has a good arm.
Agreed, the M’s would probably settle for a cheaper DH option such as Butler
Met fan here. They have a couple of arms in Syndergaard and Matz that are close and need to open up a spot for Matt Harvey coming back from TJS. Right now they have Harvey, deGrom, Wheeler, Colon, Niese and Gee with Syndergaard and Matz possibly ready after Super 2. Rafael Montero is in AAA as well
Hopefully one goes in a deal for a SS.
I love that Pink Panther avatar. I want one! I love that Movie series.
Peter Sellers was crazy, but he was one funny man.
Anyway, I could see Colon being traded, but the others, I would think they would have to evaluate how healthy everyone is.
Mets rotation in 2015: Wheeler, Harvey, Niese, Montero, Gee, Colon, Syndergaard, DeGrom. How many SP’s do YOU think they need?
Yep SP is the Mets biggest strength going forward.
Never say that. The minute you say “How many SP’s do you need?” you need more than you have. No such thing as too much.
Exactly. And let us not get too over-the-top on Montero and Syndergaard. They are still prospects, not established pitchers. You even have to wait a bit on deGrom to prove his sensational rookie season wasn’t a fluke.
As a Yankees fan, I can count so many pitchers through the years that looked like they were going to be something special, only to have them flame out/get injured/etc. etc. etc. Pitching is about an inexact science as there is in all of sports. If you have depth, best to keep as much of it as you can. (If the Mets see a chance to grab a young SS, they should obviously go for it, of course)
Id much rather have the Mariners go after Yasmany Tomas. I dont even really think J Up would be happy in a Mariners uniform.
Well, Tomas is an unknown and won’t be cheap, though he looks promising. Upton wouldn’t have dropped the Mariners from his no-trade list if he wasn’t interested in coming to Seattle, but he only has a year left on his contract.
Pros and cons with both.
I don’t see J-Up really being happy in any uniform. Guy just doesn’t look like he ever has fun. I once saw him in the ball pit at McDonald’s with a frown.
Assuming Shields is gone, I believe the Royals would have interest in Bartolo for a year if they can’t sign Santana. They need someone to eat innings at the front of the rotation.
Maybe the Royals and Mets trade Colon’s 🙂
I wouldn’t trade Colon’s with the Royals after seeing the food in the ballpark.
How about jup, gattis, c johnson for walker, seager, saunders. A guy can dream cant he
Don’t think that trade even makes the Mariners better in 2015, let alone longer term. Seager is the best player in the deal.
Pull Walker out of the deal and you might have something in the realm of a possibility.
Not even close. Seager is one of the best young players in baseball, with massive excess value. Johnson has negative value, Upton you get for one year. Gattis is a DH.
So I forgot the part of eating 2/3 of CJ contract.
You’d have to pull Seager out of the deal for there to be any realm of a chance.
The Mariners won’t trade three years of a 5.5 WAR player in Kyle Seager for one year of a 3.9 WAR player in Justin Upton … much less adding six years of Taijuan Walker.
That’s nutty.
You can definitely dream, but there is absolutely zero chance Seager is included in any deal whatsoever. He is an extension candidate, and should be locked up long term now.
No one thought the Rockies would dare trade Ubaldo either. Probably plenty more examples that I can’t think of as well.
That could be said about a lot of players though, and they’re different deals altogether. That was a Ubaldo for a huge prospect package (which was terrible for both teams in retrospect) vs. this being a one year rental asking for a proven future of the franchise player and a potential ace with years of control.
My proposal didnt include Walker, and would be contingent upon extending Upton
I guess I didn’t see your proposal. What was your idea?
Oh, I see it down farther. Upton and CJ for Seager and Saunders. I’ll just join that discussion down there.
If the Ms are willing to give up Walker for J Up. Could actually see the Braves flipping him, or one of their other young arms for some young offense.
J-Up for Walker and turn Minor into offense perhaps?
Teheran/Wood/Walker/Miller is a good rotation.
My reasoning is the Braves pitching was great last year. However, they had one of the worst offenses in baseball. Having traded away Heyward and LaStella. Possibly Upton/Gattis. Where is the offense going to come from for the Braves going forward. Simmons and Bethancourt are both defense first players. The only plus offensive player I see is Freeman.
Well, the money saved in the Heyward deal along with J-Up deal would allow moves for offense to be fair. Along with possibly Minor for offense?
If we trade jup for walker, i wonder if we could flip gattis and bj for somebody like buehrle. Then we flip minor for young high upside offense. Its obvious theyre building towards ’17 and buehrle would be off the books and free up a ton of money to chase free agent hitting. Leave peraza in the minors next year and bring him up in july ’16 to maximize team control
The M’s aren’t going to trade Walker for Upton. Walker was the main piece in the trade that Upton nixed when Upton had three years on his contract and Walker was in Double A. If the Braves also willing to include Gattis, I could see a major deal with other pieces involved, but Upton for Walker straight up is not realistic.
I can actually see the Mariners giving up Walker for Upton, but under the condition that Upton extends first. If Upton doesn’t extend, sign Tomas. Same money, younger, and you keep Walker and whoever else would have been involved.
Upton would never sign an extension this close to free agency.
Mets will have to give up Wheeler and Plawecki if they want a guy like Castro… My guys tells me if they can acquire Castro, that will only begin the discussion
Cubs are likely to wait and see how the FA market for top SPs plays out before looking at trade proposals for their IF depth.
Most likely. If they can’t land one of the big FA arms or trade for a guy like Hamels then they’ll look to the next tier of guys (which includes the Mets young arms).
In your dreams. Castro doesn’t get you Wheeler alone, let alone him and the Mets’ best position prospect. Castro’s a league average player making real money. Wheeler’s a very high ceiling SP on a rookie contract. Doesn’t work.
Yeah you can forget it. Castro is basically Daniel Murphy offensively at SS, with mediocre defense and attitude questions to boot. That might get the Cubs Wheeler alone (and I wouldn’t be too keen on that as a Met fan), but no way does it get Wheeler and one of the best C prospects in baseball.
a better deal would be upton, upton, gattis, carpenter for walker, seager
No way the Mariners trade Seager in any deal. If it comes to that point, they are way better off taking a risk on Tomas and not creating more holes.
Braves trade Upton for walker. Then trade walker, Beachy and carpenter to the Rockies for tulo. He plays 3rd johnson to left
Nah. Walker would be kept. Beachy no trade value. Would take more for Tulo.
Unless its Gattis, Minor, Carpenter (or Beachy still) and JR Graham.
This isn’t MLB The Show
Phenomenal game for sure though 🙂
Not sure anyone is going to inquire on Colon
Right now, probably not. He’ll be appealing to a team later on in the season as a dependable vet with an expiring contract.
I think teams would if they need a stopgap. The problem is that the Mets likely hold him in higher regards than other teams.
Mariners fans don’t want to trade Walker, I want to dump CJ. So…Upton and CJ for Seager and Saunders.
You’d have to add Gattis in the deal and eat a chunk of CJ’s contract. Plus give M’s a window to try to extend J-Up probably.
No way they are getting Gattis, Upton, and CJ for Seager and Saunders.
Braves aren’t getting Seager for one year of Upton and CJs terrible contract.
It is contingent on an extension with Upton
The Mariners would be paying a lot more for similar offensive production while taking a huge step back at third base. I don’t see how the Mariners could accept that trade, Seager has tremendous value.
D.J. Peterson is top prospect, can takeover soon. CJ can then be shifted to 1B, or traded away
The problem is the Ms wouldn’t be willing to trade their best offensive asset anyway. They want offense to complement Seager.
No one wants CJ
Seems there is a stalemate here then. M’s fans also don’t want to give up Walker for Upton, so I left him out. Who else do the M’s have that would provide equivalent value that they are willing to give up?
Six years of middle infielder Chris Taylor, five years of lefthander Roenis Elias and two years of outfielder Michael Saunders would be too much for Seattle to trade for one year of Justin Upton.
And who proposed that trade?
It’s more about value, adding Upton while subtracting Seager doesn’t do much to upgrade the Mainers and hurts their financial flexibility. In my opinion, Seager is much more valuable than Walker despite his ceiling. Considering what a year of Heyward cost, I think the framework of a deal could look something like Paxton and Austin Wilson for Upton
This is on the right track but doesnt get it done IMO. The M’s may value Paxton more than other teams. He wasn’t good in the upper minors, and I’m not taking a 98 inning major league sample over his minors numbers. And I don’t think Wilson is of interest to the Braves.
Paxton had a few dominating starts towards the end of last year. Consistent 95+ LH. I’d take that for one year of Upton for sure.
“A few dominating starts” over his entire upper-minor league track record. Come on.
98 innings 2.66 ERA at the major league level. Includes an outlier poor start he gave up 8 earned in 2 innings.
Making league minimum, controlled for 4-5 years.
Like I said, I’m not taking a 98 inning sample over his minors track record. A lot of pitchers can come in and put up good numbers. Let’s see him sustain it over the course of a full season, when he faces offenses 2/3/4 times and they can get a bead/scouting report on him. Can he adjust?
1. Minor League umps are awful and Paxton lives on the bottom of the zone.
2.Paxton fixed his mechanics. In AAA he’d be awesome one game and get shelled the next. He’s more consistent now.
He’s had one of the best starts to a career in the history of the game. Lefties who throw an easy 98 don’t grow on trees.
Top prospects flop all the time. Seager is already a proven all-star who has continually improved and doesn’t look to be slowing down anytime soon; he is a centerpiece on this team.
I question whether either side would want an extension.
CJ has negative value and best used as a bench bat/backup 3rd and 1st. J-Up only has 1yr left and Seagar is cost controlled and at plus value. Gattis is also cost controlled and plus value but a DH that can back up at catcher since they got good catcher already.
Where you’re wrong is Mariner’s fans won’t give up Seager. I’d be okay giving up Walker in the right deal. Go sign Lester or something and you still have a rotation of Felix, Lester, Kuma, Paxton, Elias. Walker is far less valuable than Seager.
Siigning Lester would make for a great rotation, but they’d still be fielding the same lineup, and that’s a problem.
You’re right, which is why I meant in addition to. I meant in response to trading Walker in a deal for Upton. I think I’m the Mariner fan that is on the same page with you. I think we should include Walker in a package for Upton (I don’t want to give up Seager or Peterson).
And, how about Upton or Gattis for Walker, Kivlehan, Saunders, and Pike? (Upton must extend)
If you think us Mariner fans don’t want to trade Walker, you have no clue how awesome Seager is; he is going no where. Walker can get us quite a bat, why would we trade an All-Star, Gold Glove 3B just entering his prime?
Wouldnt mind seeing the Braves scoop up Ben Zobrist this off season.
He’s been trendng down for a few years now, pass. We need players who will be at their best around 2017.
He would have been a good pickup for the Braves, but makes little sense now.
I can see Adam LaRoche going to the Marlins. Veteran with a good bat that can protect Stanton. He would be a good team leader too.
Pittsburgh would also be a great fit, they desperately need a 1b
Your correct Adam LaRoche would be a great fit but I doubt the Marlins would want to pay him. They’ll probably look at someone like Ike Davis (still young with potential) if he’s non tendered by the Pirates. They can get him cheap (he needs to prove himself) and he had a promising couple of years in Citifield (another huge ballpark) 30HR before he got hurt. Sign him for one year if he doesn’t work out move on but if he does then he’s great protection for Stanton.
Walker,Peterson an ackely for j.Upton
I laughed
Put down the controller
One year of Heyward basically only gets Shelby Miller…one year of Upton is going to land that package?
I really like to think the Orioles would look into Justin Upton. Upton & De Aza instead of Cruz & Markakis wouldn’t be much of a drop off if not potentially better. I’d lean towards it being a little better and at least 10 million dollars cheaper for next year. Upton is from VA so he might play pretty well in Camden Yards.
And who do the O’s give in return?
I’m not familiar enough with the Braves system to give an educated guess lol. I do know they have some pitching depth and would probably have a need for an OF. Other then that I have no idea. I’ll leave that for those more educated then me lol.
If it didn’t look like Atlanta was in full blown rebuild mode I think a Wieters & Upton swap could work. Wieters played at GA Tech. The O’s do have some catching depth. Other then that Pitchers Mike Wright & Tim Berry could work. Both are top 10 in the Organization. OF Dariel Alverez & Mike Yastrzemski are also in the top 10. I don’t see them parting with Bundy or Harvey for 1 year of Upton though.
Even if the Braves weren’t rebuilding they’d hang up on that quick. First, Wieters for Upton is not remotely fair value. Second, Braves don’t need a catcher with Bethancourt and Gattis on the roster. Even if Gattis is traded, they would still have 2 catchers, neither of whom is bench/backup material.
Remotely fair? I don’t know about that Wieters was on a tear to begin the season. The injury is a cause for concern. I knew they had Bethancourt just wasn’t sure they were ready to give him the keys just yet. And if they traded Upton wouldn’t they just keep Gattis and play him in the OF? Like I said I’m not really sure what Atlanta would be looking for. just throwing things out there.
Playing Gattis in LF is posturing by the Braves IMO. He’s terrible as an outfielder.
That is possible. I agree with what you said about being in the drivers seat. Offense is at a premium. But with it only being 1 year of Upton I’m just not sure how far the car they are driving can go. It’s entirely possible they take a lesser offer just to get something. All these teams can just wait a year and not give up anything. IMO Upton should get more of a return then Heyward but how much more is a huge question.
If you are a contending team, you don’t just “wait a year” to address a clear need.
If you are the Orioles you can. With Jones, Tillman, Hardy, Machado, Schoop, Britton, Bundy, Gausman etc… That’s not a nucleus that will only contend next year but the next 4-6 years. Maybe a team that only has a 1 year window yeah absolutely. But not one’s like the O’s or Mariners who have good if not great young cost controlled players.
For all the people saying the M’s wouldnt give up Seager in a package for Upton, what about the fact that Peterson is a 3b and nearly ready for the bigs? Seager plays 2b and 3b, and you clearly can’t move him to 2nd. Moving him anywhere else would diminish his value.
Freemans blocking him at 1st where Peterson is best suited.
Unless there is a M’s 1B prospect named Freeman that I don’t know about, I have no idea what you are talking about.
I thought your talking about Peterson instead of Seagar to Braves.
They more view him as the 1B of the future. Still would just rather build a package around Walker and Kivlehan. And it’s more that at the point of giving up Walker and Seager for Upton, you’re creating more holes than you are filling. For me personally, it’s the same with those talking about giving up Iwakuma for Cespedes.
Seager is our best homegrown player since A-Rod, Peterson looks to be moving to first base even without Seager because of his defense and why would we trade away our one offensive prospect that has panned out? You know how many top prospects of ours has flopped? Seager is the one sure thing we have on offense other than Cano, we are not trading him. He is a franchise player and he will be paid as such, by the Mariners, before next offseason.
I am actually for a Braves and Mariners trade including Upton and Walker..
How about this:
Mariners Acquire: Justin Upton, Chris Johnson, prospect/bp arm
Braves Acquire: Walker, Kivlehan..
What are REASONABLE trades for BOTH teams that you guys like?
I could see something like Walker and a mid level prospect for Upton and Gattis.
Or maybe Walker for Upton and a B-/C+ prospect.
Too much for Walker.
One year left for Upton stunts his value a tad. Walker has 5+ cheap years left.
Walker hasn’t proven anything in the majors as far as I’m concerned and already had injury issues. Walker has a lot of hype around inflating him more than need be. Don’t get me wrong I think he’s a talented prospect. I’m just not buying the hype as much as others.
Maybe, but not often does a team get the chance to acquire a Walker-type. Top RH cheap cost-controlled young arm. One year of Upton for a team looking beyond 2015 is definitely worth that imo.
There has been a ton of top prospect arms that busted and as a Braves fan I’ve seen a few just from our own system recently.
Being a fellow NL East fan I am very familiar with the Braves. None of the young prospect arms you are thinking of have matched Walker’s level.
Dealing with any prospect is always a risk. Upton for Walker would be great for ATL. I doubt Seattle would even do it.
Tommy Hanson was a top 5 at least we got a couple decent seasons before he busted. Then R.Delgado and A.Vizcaino were both in the top 50 maybe not quit at Walkers level but still very hyped.All 3 never lived up to their hype. I just don’t trust pitching prospects till they prove something.
Hanson was never thought of as high as Walker is. Delgado and Vizcaino like you said weren’t close.
If you don’t trust pitching prospects though, then you don’t.
I think it would take more than that. I think the M’s could find another team willing to give up more for Walker. If the M’s were to trade Walker they would want a significant piece for the future as well.
Saunders and a decent reliever might get a deal done for Upton.
Braves will want a player with more upside than Saunders as a headliner.
I am thinking a good young reliever like Brandon Mauer. The M’s have several good relievers to choose from.
No, it wouldnt. Not even close.
I think you are way overestimating what one year of Upton is worth. The m’s have some really nice relievers and Saunders is pretty good. The m’s are not going to trade any key prospects for one year of anybody. If Gattis is part of it then you might get a top prospect but not just for Upton.
You are undervaluing, see my post above about why the Braves are in the driver’s seat.
He’s correct though in a sense. Your proposals would be fine imo if Upton had two years left.
If the m’s move Walker it will be for someone like Kemp plus significant money. They are not going to trade him for one year of Upton.
Steamer600, which assumes each hitter will make 600 plate appearances, projects a 2015 WAR of 3.0 for Justin Upton and 2.5 for Michael Saunders.
A trade would include one year of Upton at $14.5 million for two years of Saunders working off his projected 2015 arbitration salary of $2.9 million.
By those measures, the Braves make out like bandits (although Atlanta would prefer longer-term assets).
I doubt Seattle would have any interest in Chris Johnson (and the $23.5 million remaining on his contract) when the Mariners have All Star Gold Glover Kyle Seager at third base.
Then a trade you would like? or think is suiting for both teams?
Mariners wouldn’t want CJ. They already have Seager and Peterson is the 1B of the future.
My idea would be this:
Upton and Gattis for Walker, Kivlehan, Saunders, Pike (Upton must agree to extend though).
A Gattis, Upton- Walker, Saunders, high prospect..
Thinking- Upton is a one year rental. Gattis has team control but they are both power bats and right handed, which the Mariners need.
For the Braves point, Saunders(i dont know him well so i dont know what to say), but a high prospect, maybe just top10-20 ish can boost farm system and Walker can bolster rotation.
No way on earth the braves give jup and gattis for walker and a mediocare corner outfielder thats in the doghouse and cant stay healthy. If the gm’s think like the fans then theres no hope of a trade. To be honest i think the m’s jump on a straight up walker-upton trade. The m’s are in win now mode and NEED a rh power bat and have the pitching depth to trade walker away
I like Walker and the idea of him, but if we’re giving up that much offense, we need to get more than just Saunders back. I’m really liking the looks of this DJ Peterson kidm though you couldn’t get him in the same deal with Walker.
rundmc1981.. I liked the Peterson kid too. But like you said, its him or Walker. Either one with Saunders will I think, a good trade.
Make no mistake about it, the Braves are in the driver’s seat here. With Upton’s stellar offense in an offensively challenged game, Braves have the power. Sure there are other power hitters, but are they on the trade market? As for FA’s, Cruz is much older, and (likely) just had his best year. You’d be paying for previous production, whereas Upton probably hasnt peaked yet.
They are the potential seller after all.
Yeah but folks keep saying the M’s wont do this and that, thats fine, teams would line up to trade for Uptonm they dont need the Ms.
Who knows what Ms FO will be willing to do. If they somehow accept Walker-Upton straight up, Braves would jump on it.
Coming of an 83-loss season, the Braves control Justin Upton for just one more year after trading their top WAR producer. With current rosters, the Braves rank 26th in projected WAR, according to FanGraphs depth charts.
That’s a bumpy driver’s seat.
The rebuilding braves projected war has nothing to do with Upton’s value in a trade.
walker would def not be part of the trade. last thing Barves need is more pitching
Always nice for a ‘quasi- rebuilding’ team to load up on young tradeable assets.
you couldnt be more wrong
Hart said they wanted more young talent. that would mean they would shoot for 2 or 3 prospects not a pitcher who already has injury problems
DJ Peterson…
Last thing? Pitching built this franchise. Sure, we have more of it, but it’s not the last thing we need. The last thing might be another Upton.
best trade would be Austin Wilson and Patrick Kivlehan for Jupton+1
no. just no.
The Braves can’t reasonably trade Upton without getting an outfielder in return and I doubt Ackley or Saunders would cut it unfortunately. With guys like Bruce, Gardner, and Markakis available I’d hope they’d adhere to common sense.
He’ll probably end up on the Southside, batting before Abreu & Billy Butler.
Loria continues to think that he can lie and no one will notice. We know what his revenue is give or take a few million. We know what his TV contract is and that it wont change before 2021. We know what his attendance is and what that is bringing in. We also know that his team can’t afford to bring any good players in to put on the field with Stanton. You got your man through 2019 Loria and now you will pay the real price…consistent losing.
Smoke and mirrors the Wilpons are just trying to keep the fans interested so they can sell some season tickets for next year. I`d be very surprised they improve that line up enough to contend.