The Cubs have announced they have acquired infielder Tommy La Stella from the Braves for right-hander Arodys Vizcaino. The two teams also traded 2014-15 international bonus slots: the Cubs receiving the Braves’ number four slot ($142K) in exchange for Chicago’s second ($458K), third ($309.3K), and fourth ($206.7K) slots (figures courtesy of Baseball America’s Ben Badler). The Braves will net $832K in the swap of bonus slots.
La Stella made his MLB debut for the Braves in 2014 and slashed .251/.328/.317 in 319 plate appearances while leading all National League rookies with his .328 OBP and 36 walks. La Stella, who will turn 26 in January, joins a crowded Cubs second base picture with Javier Baez, Arismendy Alcantara, and Logan Watkins seeing time there last year. Third baseman Luis Valbuena also saw over 150 innings at second base, as well. FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal opines La Stella is not an ideal positional fit, although the Cubs like his bat and ability to make contact and have tried to obtain him for a while. In a series of tweets, Rosenthal feels this trade could be a precursor to other moves and, while not necessarily because of La Stella’s addition, Starlin Castro may be the odd man out (I, II, III).
With La Stella being moved, Ramiro Pena and Philip Gosselin are the only second basemen on the Braves’ 40-man roster. Top prospect Jose Peraza could still be a year away after having split 2014 between Class A-Advanced and Double-A. David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution tweets the Braves may give Peraza a look during Spring Training, but he expects they will sign a bridge second baseman on a one-year deal.
Vizcaino, who the Cubs acquired two years ago from the Braves in the Paul Maholm trade, only made five appearances during his Chicago career, all this past September (three earned runs over five innings), as he recovered from Tommy John surgery. The 24-year-old spent the bulk of 2014 across three levels of the Cubs’ organization posting a combined 3.51 ERA, 9.2 K/9, and 4.0 BB/9 in 41 innings of work during 40 relief outings.
I do not understand from a Cubs standpoint. Unless they plan to move Valbuena or Baez
That’s the part I dont understand. Not like they are hurting for young infield depth.
Potential trade brewing for an arm? I’m hearing names but don’t trust sources.
That’s really the only thing that makes sense.
What names are you hearing?
Clayton Kershaw maybe?!
Good thing dreams are free
I’m a Red Sox fan. I’m just being sarcastic.
Baez to Mets for Syndergaard and Flores
Sign me up
Lol if only. Perfect considering his playoff luck. 😛
I’m hearing Cubs-Blue Jays with one pitcher mentioned being LHPs J.A. Happ and Buehrle also being mentioned. Castro to Blue Jays. Two sources, similar stories, but think there must be more to it than this if they have a sniff. Suspect only at discussion stage. But such a scenario could make some sense for both teams. Maddon has seen both pitchers. Blue Jays may have other related moves in mind…
Worth adding that Valbuena is a former Blue Jay and popular meme so far is they’re bringing back players they had previously (e.g. Liam Hendricks).
*post-edit* — fixed typo RHP reference above — also told Reyes could be in mix but don’t see it. Past his prime as SS even on grass. Castro to Blue Jays has been talked about in past week, before trade with Braves. EVERY team’s fans over-values own players and under-values others…
Their is no way the Cubs do that. Castro for Happ is absurd, given the fact that Castro is on such a good deal, and Happ is no better than a no.3 (I believe this is a stretch, he’s more so a no.4 IMO). Even if the Jays include Buehrle, who is a LHP by the way, it makes no sense from the Cubs standpoint. Both these guys aren’t much better than what they got. The only way Castro is traded if it’s for an ace, which’ll have to be Hamels, or somebody else.
Happ is also on a great deal, and a solid southpaw. Not sure why Blue Jays would want Valbuena back when need SS to replace Reyes…
Reyes ain’t going nowhere, he has an albatross contract but also, solidifies the Jays’ lead off spot, providing a good bat and speed. And while I do agree that a lot of people overvalue Castro, as he isn’t that great, he is certainly worth more than that, due to his cheap contract, and potential upside as he gets older. Happ is a FA after this season (I believe), and Buehrle is getting overpaid and is questionable in terms of the value he’ll provide, given his age. Personally, I don’t see a fit between the two clubs. I could see, however, a Castro for Norris + Other pieces type of deal but, not for Happ or Buehrle. If the Cubs are going to give up upside, they’re gonna want upside in return, or a great player (a.k.a an ace).
Blue Jays would move Reyes to 1B (replacing Lind) if they can get a solid SS. His hitting still there, but too many errors at SS in 2014. Reasonable analysis. Happ is $6.7M for 2015, Buehrle is $20M for 2015. Both are FAs for 2016. Both bring value, Buehrle for 14 years of over 200 innings. I agree Buehrle will be the harder one to move, and has value for Blue Jays with strong young core of pitchers coming up. That’s why it doesn’t make total sense. Happ plus a prospect or toss-off makes more sense, and the fits elsewhere may be better. Ryan Goins is an excellent young defensive 2B who might fit with Happ, though, in a trade. Perceived needs and value, the story of trades. With the value of pitching now I’d be surprised to see any ace on the move in an off-season deal.
Hamels is on the block, as long as the Phillies don’t ask for an entire farm system. And Reyes isn’t gonna move to 1B, that would not sit well with him. IMO, if they’d have to trade for Castro, it would be Reyes at SS, and Castro at 2B. Fact is, neither one of them are great defensively. Experience and respect causes Reyes to get the SS position over Castro, unless he agrees to move to 2B, doubt it though, he loves playing SS.
Given his salary, Reyes’ll need to play where they tell him. His range is gone and his errors are up since injury in 2013. They’re already talking about giving him a field break with some DH duties in 2015, and not a peep from him, so I think he’ll play where asked. But good points. To spell him for any time they need a real SS and while Goins could do it range-wise, he still lacks bat.
You don’t actually believe that Reyes would ever play 1B do you? I can see a move to 2B or maybe OF but never 1B. That is absurd.
Castro is a 3.0 WAR player, the Cubs are looking for 3.0 pitcher! Buehrle is a good pitcher but he is not an ace and is too old. I don’t see him fitting their model. The Cubs look to be loading up infielders to go after Hamels.
Cubs are “hurting” for a LH bat that can get on base and score runs.
They have plenty of power w Rizzo, Soler and Bryant, etc.
Having too many prospects is a good problem. They need rotation help and can defiantly trade a few good prospects for some pitching and still have a fantastic farm system.
could be an old school trade of, “we’ll give you more now and you give us more in our next deal.” cubs have plenty of power arms in the pen, maybe the Cubs get some Braves slot money in a deal this next signing period with the restrictions lifted.
They’ll be trading those middle infielders soon anyways. Too much depth is never a bad thing.
He may be able to play LF, so the Cubs may not move anyone.
except…the Cubs are already happy with Chris Coghlan, and may be moving Kris Bryant to left.
Valbuena could help Pittsburgh. Can play 2B/3B while moving Pedro to 1B.
I think PIT is happy w Josh Harrison in that role
After one great season, I’m not ready to give J-Hay a key to the city of Pittsburgh.
Depth. Baez could end up back at AAA, injuries happen. Trades also happen…
Nice deal for both sides seeing as the Cubs can’t spend more than $250,000 on an international player this year anyway. Good pick up in La Stella too. Hopefully Vizcaino can help the Braves if he can stay healthy.
This move leads me to believe that Walden or Carpenter is going to be traded before to long.
And Peraza may get his shot to play 2B. Don’t see Goose starting for the whole year.
Good call on Walden.
Pure luck. Makes sense though, Dump the money while you can and try to make your fortunes on really attractive young pieces and hope for the best.
Two things stand out in La Stella’s stats – he gets on base and doesn’t strike out. Both things would definitely be welcome in the Cubs offense. Do the Cubs move one of their IFs now?
He actually had a pretty good start after replacing Uggla. It just seems like he got into Fredi Gonzalez’ doghouse in late August and sporadically played in September when they needed someone who could get on base.
Braves don’t know what to do with a player that does not strike out and gets on base. I mean, then you have to bring them home to score a run?!
They got vizcaino from the braves paid him to rehab then trade him back to the braves when he’s healthy? I dont get this one
Vizcaino never really got healthy, he kept getting hurt. The Cubs also decided he had no shot at starting after all of the injuries.
I know he wasnt going to start but the cubs pen could have been deadly and a middle infielder is the last thing the cubs need. The only thing that makes sense is he bats lefty but Im confused on this one
La Stella just has more value than Vizcaino. La Stella has more value to the Cubs than their slot money (they have a limit they can spend this year). Don’t count your prospects until they hatch
Ur right about the slot money it had little to no value to the cubs as they cant sign anyone for more than 250k but I just dont get it. O well thats y Im not paid to make the decisions
To be honest, I just see Vizcaino as a throw in to the deal. He’s just a mediocre middle reliever with a bad injury history. In a vacuum, La Stella is a more valuable player than Vizcaino. I like this move. If they are going to make a trade in assuming it’s gonna be a ig one that takes 1-2 of those guys. This depth will work itself out
what happened was Hector Rondon and Neil Ramirez…Vizcaino was being groomed as a closer, but Ramirez and Rondon as setup man/closer became lights out this year.
Pretty simple. Cubs lacked power arms back when they made the deal. They have plenty of options for the pen now, so Vizcaino was expendable.
Hoyer made it clear, the Cubs were looking for a LH bat that can get on base and score runs.
So now who fills the need at second
probably make a serious run at
Yoan Moncada
I think thts is exactly what this is about. Good Call.
I don’t think so. Moncada isn’t someone you can really count on for next year. He easily costs $60MM total outlay, and he is only 19. He will most likely need to start in the minors.
Have you been reading about how we’re trying to focus on 2017? Not like I really believe it, as we’re known for always fielding a competitive team, but that could be a good way of providing some offense if backloading the deal.
Possibly, but this move can really can’t be seen as making room for Moncada. If they get him, big if, he still couple years away.
Well, ATL’s looking at this season as a quasi-rebuild, so they aren’t quite as worried about next season. They’re more focused on 2017, when the new stadium opens.
Not that I seriously expect them to win the Yoan bidding, but I do think they’re going to make a flurry of signings on the international market. All of their recent front office hires make this move look like that’s the plan.
Most of the top international talent has already been signed for this winter. I don’t see how you can ship one of your players out because you hope to be the top bidders for someone else.
ATL has had a good history of finding international talent that might not have been thought of as top talents, but have matured into stars, partially through ATL’s player development. Most of their young stars were not high picks or big signees (Beachy, Medlen, Tommy Hanson (back in the day), Simmons, Teheran, etc.). If only our top picks were as good as our late rd and international signees.
Dan Uggla.
Bonifacio?
Gosselin. If he fails Elmer Reyes or Ramiro Pena until Perarza is ready next year.
Valbuena is a good bet to be traded this off-season because of two reasons: he’s an inexpensive, slightly above average bat at 3b (or 2b) where there are few better options available, and the Cubs have Kris Bryant ready for the majors. La Stella has only played 2b in the minors and majors, curious to see if he can handle 3b well enough to be a solid utility player. Hard to see him getting more of a chance with the Cubs with Baez and Alcantara, etc. in the mix for 2b. Hoyer said a few days ago that Baez is not competing for the 2b job, it’s his.
It is his……..until he puts up an 11/80 BB/K ratio over the first 2 months. The trade for LaStella is telling.
La Stella only played 2B with the Braves because that’s the only position he can play. He has below average range and quickness, not to mention a weak throwing arm, for a 2B. Trying him out at 3B would be a terrible move on the Cubs part should they not deal him as well.
Cubs won’t move him to third. They will be playing either Mike Olt there with Bryant in left field, or Kris Bryant there with Chris Coghlan in left…this seems like a precursor to moving Castro and getting an outfielder or SP.
Unless another bigger trade is coming, I don’t understand this trade for the Cubs. We don’t need another U INF and Vizcaino is a really good arm for the bullpen. See what happens I guess
hes not even a utility player tho. hes just a 2B
This is confusing on both sides. Why trade for more infield depth if you’re the cubs and now who plays second for the braves?
The offseason isn’t over yet, so the Braves still have plenty of time to find a 2B. As far as the Cubs go, unless a big trade involving Castro, Baez, Bryant, and/or Russell for pitching happens, I don’t understand what they are thinking here. I guess they might be following the Rockies building plan of all hitting and no pitching, but that hasn’t worked that well either.
I think both teams might be about to make another trade. Braves to fill 2nd and cubs about to get a pitcher. Could see Walden or carpenter gone.
Maybe the Cubs could trade La Stella to the Braves for Vizcaino and each will fill their needs.
okay, but the Braves need to throw in some international pool slots too…
Not a big fan of the deal, but my assumption is that it precipitates a trade either of Baez or, probably more likely, Luis Valbuena. Baez or Bryant can take over 3B, La Stella at 2B.
Baez will be at 2nd and Bryant at 3rd
people still are counting Mike Olt out of the equation..he is a better defensive ball player than Bryant or Valbuena, and was hitting much better after going to the minors and correcting his swing. Olt will start at third for the Cubs, and Kris Bryant will be learning how to play left field when the season begins. If Olt struggles, you can bring up Bryant and put him in at third..if he does not struggle..then Bryant in left and Olt at third is one potent left side of the field with a gold glove potential at third base..
Why? He’s a younger version of Coghlan.
Cubs have a crowded infield about to get more crowded as top prospects start to graduate, and just acquired another player who plays there. They might be able to buy another year by optioning folks if they are so inclined. Otherwise, somebody with value has to go and I find Valbuena to be fairly likely.
You’re assuming LaStella will only play in the IF. I wouldn’t assume that.
I’m also assuming that Wellington Castillo doesn’t become an outfielder. Do you have a particular reason to believe it’s going to happen, or simply “it’s within the realm of possibility?”
I read where the Braves wanted to consider him there. Why would the Cubs want to keep Coghlan? His defense is just as adequate, his OBP lower, he’s 4 yrs older?
I have no idea what their plan is for Coghlan, they may well be looking to trade him. That really doesn’t free up the infield situation any, though it might help later in the season if Bryant ends up an outfielder.
Again, you’re assuming his role is only 2b.
2B is really his only position. He doesn’t have enough range for the outfield and he doesn’t have the arm for the left side of the infield.
I’ve heard mixed reports about the kid’s abilities at 2b defensively. That’s all I’m saying.
Or Cubs are hedging their bets against one of them failing.
More than one to make a meaningful dent in the problem.
Gosselin will remain the starter this year and probably peraza next year.
No way. I can’t see gosslin doing well as a year long starter
Hey it could be worse. Could have been a whole year of la Stella
La Stella was better than Gosselin.
Not by much. I don’t think defenses had to respect La Stella’s power at all. Kinda one of the problems Andrelton used to have- which is why he overswings so much.
probably a good push for Yoan Moncada
Moncada is 19, the guy is going to start next year in the minors.
That doesn’t matter. The Braves aren’t building for next year. They’re building for 2016 or 2017.
Then who plays second, La Stella is gone now lol
In 2013 the international slots had surprisingly good trade value. So if you look at this deal in that light, Vizcaino had very low trade value. The Cubs basically traded their 2nd and 3rd slots and threw in Vizcaino for La Stella.
Braves trying to build up slot money for a run at moncada (sp) is the only thing that makes any sense from the braves persoective
Slot money doesn’t matter with Moncada – he will cost 30+ million dollars with the purchasing team paying double that in over-slot penalty.
There’s a max you can add and it won’t come close to being enough. Somebody is going to pay through the nose and slots won’t matter.
Yes but for every million they add thats a million in the overage taxes they wont have to pay
So basically they are counting their eggs before they hatch? If this was seriously a move towards that, it makes no sense. You don’t start clearing out room on your mlb roster for someone that isn’t even on your team yet. Not to mention that he is only 19, and is most likely going to be heading to the minors next year.
Don’t like it. Tommy had no power but walked a ton and that has its uses (plus low strikeouts). Vizcaino’s arm is a wreck and I’ve got low hopes for his career at this point. I get Tommy didn’t have a lot of trade value, so why not just keep him?
He won’t have a position if they’re set on putting Peraza at 2B. I’m not sure how I feel about this trade, though. Not sure Vizcaino is going to stay healthy.
Peraza was going to take the 2B job someday soon, but I would’ve preferred waiting until Peraza actually took it before trading someone to make room. Surely something could’ve worked out between the three potential 2B (Gosselin, Tommy, Jose) with that spot and 3B open if Johnson continues to be terrible. And most importantly, like you said, Vizcaino does not have the odds in his favor when it comes to being healthy (which is important if you want to be useful).
must be the draft money. they just beefed up their scouting and probably see some players they want to grab. freeing up space for peraza is nice,too, and i would think the difference between starting the season with gosselin instead of la stella is realistically pretty small.
i wasnt sure at first, but i think im starting to come around.
I’m coming around in the sense that I think the trade is probably going to be pretty irrelevant overall. Guess TLS probably would’ve ended up getting cut or something when Peraza was ready, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to cut ties so soon when I think he’s got a shot at being decent.
La Stella isnt that good though. all he has is decent contact. his defense is average at best, no power, not much speed, he doesnt even hit that ball that well. he just happened to be a better option than Uggla for the Barves
I like him better than I like Gosselin (for starting 2B) and that’s really what irks me I guess. I probably had more faith in his discipline / contact skills paying off than other people did.
That and Vizcaino being the return just feels like salt in the wound. I think Viz is done, though it’d be nice to be very, very wrong.
I pretty much feel the same way.
So is Paraza being given the 2nd base job for the Braves
That was my thought as well. I guess Jose Peraza will be given a shot to win the job this Spring.
Im gonna guess gosselin at 2nd and bring peraza up late june early july if hes performing
Dan Uggla is still out there…
Lol so now the Braves are undoing past Wren trades to go along with firing him and trading his son?
Uhhh…. okay? This makes absolutely 0 sense for the Cubs.
it does actually. they are clearly gonna trade for an ace. one of their middle infield prospects will be in that trade
Why trade for an ace when they still have a pretty decent opportunity at signing one on the open market?
I think they may well do both. Sign one and trade for another.
I could see the Cubs trading one of their top middle infield prospects very soon.
Why does everybody keep saying this? I don’t think they see La Stella as anything but a good back-up or someone who can slide in if one of these guys falter.
Well even without La Stella I could see them trading one of them (or Castro).
La Stella’s a pretty good player… not great but I think he’ll be (lower-tier) starting caliber in a few years. Like Scooter Gennett with less K’s and more BB’s
… and less power and weaker defense given some of the descriptions in this thread
That may be true, although Gennett didn’t have Gennett’s power when he was first coming up
He’s a small guy who was drafted out of high school.
Trade with the Yankees happening now
Which team and for whom? (Or are you guessing)
Complete random guess and hope
nothing has happened…
Yea, the Braves had too many guys that didn’t strike out and made lots of contact. Also now we don’t have a 2B (not really sure if Peraza is ready…)
Personally am not sure I like this as a Braves fan, unless this is leading to something else.
Perarza’s a big contact player. Kubitza is like a Chris Johnson with speed who can take a walk (I think if he can hit .290-.300 at MLB level he’ll be an All-Star)
The braves have to be making room for the ultimate impact bat, Dan Uggla.
I don’t get it. So, the Cubs lose bonus money, and add even further to their crowded infield situation. I mean, unless they’re planning to send out, like, Baez to a team like the Mets, I just don’t get it.
Looks to me like that’s exactly what’s going on. Either Baez or Castro is on the move.
This is a strange trade for both teams. La Stella pushed Dan Uggla out of his starting position at 2nd base. The Braves usually don’t give up on good players this early in their careers. I know that the Braves always have a very loaded minor league system, but this is a strange trade. I understand the Cubs could not technically use all of their international money, but you would think that the Cubs could have received more in a trade. La Stella is almost as good of a defensive 2B as Darwin Barney. He hits from the left side, walks and does not strike out that often.
“La Stella is almost as good of a defensive 2B as Darwin Barney.” <— c'mon man.
Gold glove, right?
Barney is awful, sorry
Defensively, he’s a wizard.
Can’t hit a lick though.
La Stella is an average defender at best. no way he is even close to Darwin Barney
Not sure if I like this move
I have to imagine another move will be coming – if not for both clubs, at least for the Cubs. La Stella isn’t even a utility guy like some of the other MIFers the Cubs have. He’s a straight up 2nd baseman. I kind of get it from the Braves side (Hart probably has a very high valuation on Peraza – but I’d think he’s still a year away – so they’ll probably go with Gosselin for a bit). And adding over $800,000 in international slot money is pretty big.
Amaro is usually pretty aggressive. I wonder how much Phillies’ interest for Tomas affects his trade talks for Hamels.
Ian Kennedy and Robbie Erlin for Starlin Castro
Going to take Ross to get Castro. Not trading Castro to get Kennedy
That makes sense. I feel like Ross could net us Castro, or one of Heyward and Upton from the Braves.
Not much point in trading Ross for one year of Upton or Heyward.
No.
So the Braves sold low on Vizcaino so they could sell low on La Stella to re-acquire him?
Kind of a puzzling trade but I feel the Cubs certainly got better value.
They didn’t really sell low on La Stella. That might be his actual value.
This might be his value right now, that’s why it’s called selling low.
No, I meant that his current production is what he is long-term. A back-up on a good team. The term selling low is usually used for players who have had good production before but are coming of a bad year(s).
A big bullpen arm with health questions for a low-ceiling, one-dimensional role player at 2b.
i dont think either side is really going to look back on this one and say “what if?”
I agree. Maybe the Braves have a trade they’re working on where they didn’t want La Stella. Right niw, it doesn’t make much sense for them.
This is great for the Cubs. They get a on-base IF in exchange for an injury prone pitcher and gave up some slot money. They spent so much money in international spending last year that they were already facing restrictions this time around and weren’t even going to be able to put those slots to good use without facing more steep taxes. They turned something they couldn’t even use into something every team wants. Talk about trading up.
Where is La Stella getting playing time?
barring a trade, he’ll be a defensive replacement for Baez, left handed pinch hitter and maybe pinch runner for Castillo. Unless, they leave Baez in Iowa for a few months to start the season.
That thought crossed my mind as well. La Stella gives the Cubs a legitimate reason to play with some service time. He’ll also be a very good bench piece, at worst.
A deal must be in the works involving one of castro, barz, russell or Alcantara
Really hope it’s Baez or Alcantara. I think trading Castro or Russell would be a massive mistake.
Russell and Bryant are untradeable I would think. Don’t see them giving up on Baez yet, come on only been there for a couple months. Castro would have to get an ace back in any deal
i think Baez would be the best option to trade. a power SS will be great bait for lets say Cole Hamels. plus i dont see Baez being that good of a player. his swing is way to long and he will be another Adam Dunn if he doesnt fix his approach. Russell is the best SS of the 3. no way he goes.
I agree with you, but I don’t want to trade Baez. Only been 2 months, they can fix him and his numbers are pretty similar some great players in the past their first 2 months
yeah i think the cubs should hold off on trading any of these guys and just get some Free Agent starters. it would be such a mistake if they end up letting go of someone who goes on to be a perennial allstar
Free Agent class is loaded with talent this year and forsure next year. Just built up the farm system, they aren’t going to get rid of these top guys. Just don’t see it happening.
I should have clarified. I’m not saying we should entirely give up on Baez, just saying that I view Russell and Castro as the better options. If we had to give up a MIF player for an ace, I would move Baez. More bust potential with him than the others.
I agree with that yes. Russell and Bryant should be the only ones I say that are untradeable. I feel pretty good about those two being MLB stars
Yup. Bryant, Russell, and Rizzo could form an incredible All-Star core for 10+ years.
I agree completely i wanna keep Russell and Castro as long as i can. I hope we hold onto these 2 and trade la stella, baez or/ and Alcantara on a deal for say hammels
Why are they gonna trade away their star prospects? I sincerely doubt it.
I agree but this trade screams that another one is coming . Unless they see LaStella as a bench bat. This leaves us with 7 potential middle infielders. And we could trade a top prospect if we get a sure thing TOR pitcher back in a deal
(11/11/14) The Braves plan is for prospect Jose Peraza to take over at second base in a year or possibly sooner if needed, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. The team feels they can survive until Peraza is ready and don’t need to spend money on a stopgap option.
Peraza is considered the Braves’ top prospect by MLB.com. Peraza is lauded for his solid defense and ability to hit for contact. He hit .339 in 110 games between Class A and Double-A in 2014. He also had 60 stolen bases.
Vizcaino is a fragile bullpen guy who doesn’t look like he could ever be a closer. It was a bad gamble by Theo to trade for him years ago and the return now 3 years later shows that. Looks like Baez or Russell could be dealt this offseason.
Vizcaino had a very high upside to be getting for a guy like Maholm. I think, at the time, it was a great move for the Cubs.
He was a TJ guy. How was that a great move? He never did anything for them. And now the return in a future trade is a mid level prospect. They had a hot Paul Maholm at a reasonable salary and paired him with Reed Johnson and got a hurt pitcher
The Cubs aren’t trading anyone named Rizzo, Castro, Bryant, Baez, Russell, Almora, Schwarber, Soler. Period.
I can see Baez or Almora but they will be getting an ace starter in return. But yes, I don’t see them ever trading Rizzo, Bryant, Russell, and Schwarber ever
With Schwarber struggling in the OF, you don’t think the Cubs would trade him as part of a package for an Ace?
No, bat is too good and he’s the kind of hitter Theo loves. Also, Schwarber doesn’t get enough credit for being a catcher. I live in Indiana and seen him play at IU like 5 times and he’s a lot better at catcher then people give him.
He’s playing catcher not OF.
Yes, they tried him in the OF and that was kind of a mess.
Mess ? He played 38 games in left field between rookie ball to low A ball with 20 games at catcher and 16 at DH this past year. Who said he was a mess in left field ? At this point the Cubs FO sees more upside with taking the time to groom him as a catcher for now.
When he was first drafted they said that if his bat was ready they had no problem moving him so he can reach the majors quickly. Well, he sure didn’t do anything to show he wasn’t worthy of moving quickly at the plate and now all of the sudden they are moving him down a level and stated he will begin catching full-time. I’m not claiming I’ve been in the room with Theo, I can just read between the lines.
The bat is great, it just seemed like they wanted to fast-track him to the majors, then the OF didn’t really work out. So it’s likely a couple years before he’s ready to be an every day catcher. They obviously love the bat and maybe Schwarber is part of the reason they’re pursuing Martin. Martin’s decline will line up nicely with Schwarber’s development.
They are slowing it a bit down now on Schwarber. Prefect world would be sign Martin to 3-4 years and he will be ready by then
I drafted him in my fantasy league, I could definitely use that bat at catcher. Haha
Keep Almora, hes gping to lead this team with Russel in a few years
Who’s this Period guy you speak of? lol
He’s awesome lol
Kind of mercurial at times though
He must be,since Matt says he’s not being traded. 🙂
Braves sign Dan Uggla to minor league deal… Extension talks ongoing.
I don’t pretend to know a TON about either team or their farm systems, but this move seems a little strange for both sides. The Cubs already have a glut of middle infielders and need pitching in the worst way. The Braves seemed to be pretty high on La Stella from what I remember, so it seems strange to be giving up on him this quickly. It makes you wonder what they know that everyone else does not. In addition, they weren’t exactly overwhelming people at 2b as it was. Maybe they were just clearing out a roster spot so they could really upgrade the position? IDK.
Just a very strange move for everyone involved, and obviously, neither side is done dealing.
Yes it is. But could be about how those teams value the players.
Theo Epstein has stated that the Cubs will acquire position prospects based on ‘best available’ vs. trading/drafting by position, citing hitters as being more of a premium than pitchers (since the PED era ended). I believe it is the Cub’s strategy to continually fortify the farm system to assure a steady stream of controllable assets to the MLB club while moving high value/ high contract veterans when the prospects are major league ready. It would also seem to be a more cost effective way to aquire experienced veteran players (via trade) than pouring a ton of cash into free agency.
I’d advise anyone thinking the Cubs are going to trade any high end prosepect go to mlb.com and watch Javi Baez/Joge Soler highlights. Those are some bombs.
The problem with Baez is that he looks completely overmatched in every single AB in which he doesn’t hit a HR. He’s not ready right now.
He’s been terrible when he first gets to every level, then he adjusts and dominates. He needs some time to adjust. He has nothing left to prove in the minors.
The Jose Peraza era has begun.
From the Cubs perspective, I wouldn’t be surprised if Castro was dealt in some way for Jordan Zimmermann
can’t see Castro as the center piece of that deal unless the Nats put I an Desmond in the deal too. They can’t both be on the roster for a year with Castro at 2B and then moved back to SS when Desmond walks as a free agent, The Nats would be better off asking for Addison Russell so he can get one more year at AAA and be good to go when Desmond walks.
Why would the Nats not consider that? Zim is an FA next year. Castro is a 3-time all-star signed through 2020. Anyway you can close the thought of any zimmerman to cubs deal, it makes no sense
I’m sure they would consider it-but it makes more sense to ask for Russell who they can stash at AAA for a year than bring in Castro and have to make him change positions for a year then move him back to SS in 2016
Sorry i meant to reply to the other person and not you. But i was restating his question, “why would nats even consider that”. Castro for zimmerman would be awesome for nats. I do agree with you russell would make more sense for the nats, but trading either for zimmerman would be absolutley horrible for the cubs, since they coyld just sign zim next year, which is why those rumors were dismissed so quickly.
Why on Earth would the Nats even consider that?
My finger is currently scratching my noggin. Seems like an odd deal to make I’m sure it will all make sense in one year when I’m still enjoying the Cubs world series win.
near as i can figure La Stella gives them a contingency for a number of possible scenarios. if Baez starts the year in AAA, or if he struggles later in the year. If somebody goes down to injury, if there’s a major trade…. The Cubs already have the proverbial plan B in place and it only cost them was a spare part and slot money they had no real ability to use.
But La Stella’s awful. Oh well, they didn’t give up much. But guys like La Stella are a dime a dozen all over baseball. Contact hitting, no power, OK-ish defending 2B. They could have done this deal with any team in baseball.
La Stella’s not the second coming of Chase Utley, that’s for sure… but the Cubs need lead-off type hitter and La Stella’s on base skill are one of his selling point.
He’s not a threat to steal Baez’ job, but as a fall-back he’s cheap, fairly useful, and cost them nothing to trade for.
Just saw some comments from Jed Hoyer. It looks like this has nothing to do with another possible move coming, La Stella is just a guy they been trying to get for awhile now. He has minor league options and Vizcaino might have just not had a spot on the 25-man roster, so they made the deal to get a guy they want.
Also like to add that the money slots were worthless to the Cubs and I might be wrong on this but the slot they get from the Braves, they can use that next season to spend. So more money to spend on international market which I think the Cubs will go all out again this year like they did last year
i think the slot money they got only applies to this year.. but for clerical reasons they needed it. the commissioners office has never liked trading money so the slot bonus in return is a glorified smoke screen.
either way the slot money was useless to the Cubs. no really good IFA ever signs for less than a 250K bonus.
Starlin not the cubbies darlin. If they don’t get someone real good for him, it’s a bad trade. Starlin’s stock is high after a bounceback year
as of right now he’s the only true SS on the Cubs roster. this deal doesn’t change that so i’m not seeing any reason the Cubs would move Castro this year for anything less than a fantastic over pay.
Umm, Russell? Didn’t they acquire him for the specific purpose of trading Castro?
when Russell’s major league ready, we’ll revisit the issue of whether they have to trade him or not. Russell’s never even played AAA ball.
No, traded for him because he was the best possible guy they could get in a deal for Samardzija and Hammel
Dont be surprise to see Castro moved to the Mets for a stud pic. i think they will use this new guy in part of a trade as well. makes sence to me in a way…
Unless that pitcher is Harvey its not happening. So yea not trading Castro
So you wouldn’t take DeGrom or Wheeler for Castro, when you have the best SS prospect in the majors in AAA? I assume Theo et al are smarter than that!
Russell’s a year away minimum and Castro’s trade value isn’t likely to drop that much by next season. no, i most definitely would not ‘settle’ for deGrom or Wheeler just yet.
Hahaha, he said settle for the ROY or a legit #2 in Wheeler.
He thinks Castro is Cal Ripken Jr
No I’m pretty sure he values a 24yr old cost controlled 3x All Star SS Higher than those guys.
yeah, i did say ‘settle’.
3-time all-star shortstop who can hit AND field and isn’t even 25 (and, oh yeah, is on an insanely team friendly long term deal) instead of a maybe no. 2 with a very short track record or a pitcher with one good year under his belt. we’ve seen RoY’s flame out before, after all. you might be able to convince me he’s worth both… maybe.
but i’m pretty sure if the Mets want Castro, the price starts at Syndergaard and builds up from there.
i wonder who is the braves new starting second basemen now hmm
Gosselin until Pereza comes up.
yeah unless they sign someone
Basically.
problem is who is out there to sign?
Most likely by trade.
yepp maybe kendrick?
Doubtful, he’ll cost too much. Probably a good defense guy with not much of a bat. If Braves decide to try to contend in 2015 then maybe Zobrist at best. I doubt they block Pereza unless they have a good reason to.
thats trueee im just very curious on who they go after and who they trade what do you think happens
Hard to say, if they can find a way to move BJ and part of his salary (unlikely) without moving Heyward and J-Up. Then pick up a lefty reliever and a couple cheap arms for the rotation, they might try to contend. It would be a long shot but still a chance.
Or trade Gattis, J-Up and Heyward for pieces to contend in 2016 with 2017 as a focus point.
Or patch work the team and let it ride with possible trades at the deadline or collect picks for Heyward and J-Up if not traded by then.
It all really hinges on BJ and his salary.
hmmm nice imo heyward or upton is gone and i think gattis is too we might rebuild but anything definately can happen
I really wouldn’t be surprised if Heyward is still with the Braves throughout 2015. If it wasn’t for the bad contracts Braves would find a way to extend him.
i hope they do keep him long term but he might get too expensive
Part of the hold up on the extension was Braves wanted to see him healthy for a full season before giving him a contract in the range he was seeking. I don’t think it was that Heyward was being greedy or that Braves were being cheap. At least that’s what I think,
i agree with you we will just wait and see if they can get something done
whose next for the braves to trade ? a reliever?
Maybe a trade with the Mets or Phillies for either Syndergaard or Hamels could be possible since they’ve both been rumored to be talking with the Cubs. What packages I think might work. What do you guys think?
Castro/ Baez/Russell, McKinney/Alcantara/Alamora, Vogelbach, Christian Villenueva and CJ Edwards or Kyle Hendriks for Hamels
Mets
Castro/ Baez/Russell, McKinney/Alcantara/Alamora, Vogelbach, and CJ Edwards or Kyle Hendriks for Syndergaard and whatever else.
Huge overpay by the Cubs in either scenario.
Wow talk about giving up the farm
Rebuild for three years then trade everything in 3 months… i’m highly doubting that is what theo and co will be doing….
Why give up all that talent for Hamels when Lester can be had for only $?
Clearly there is some traction to this rumor, I just dont get the logic, personally.
I would not give up that much for Syndergaard, again, personally. Castro even-up is fair. Starlin is a 3-time All-Star at 24, and signed to a team-friendly extension. No, Castro is not an elite player, he doesnt walk and his defense is average at-best. But Castro can hit and he plays a premium defensive position. Pitchers are way too fragile and only play every fifth day at best, and at a time when offense is becoming increasingly difficult to find.
Baez and Mike Olt/Junior Lake for Wheeler…?
That’s about as much young talent as I’d give up for pitching. I think Baez is expendable given what he offers. We only need so many RH K-machine power hitters.
I’m OK w Lester and Arrieta, then add CJ Edwards and a FA like Zimmermann or Price next winter…
That is overvaluing Syndergaard by a whole. He is unproven, and your willing to trade some very high rated prospects, and a few other nice pieces for him. As for the Hamels proposal, it seems fair for both sides. Thought Villenueva was a FA?
Carlos Villanueva is a free agent. Christian is a slick fielding 3b in the minors.
unless ‘whatever else’ translates to Wheeler and another SP of the Cubs choosing… yeah, that’s an overpay for the Cubs.
holy cow man, that is a terrible idea for the Cubs. I think they will be able to pull a deal only involving one of Castro/Baez/Russell and some lesser prospects, lesser than what you mentioned. Honestly, I don’t think Baez/Russell are going anywhere.
If Theo pulled the trigger on either of those deals he should be committed.
Sandy Alderson says Yes Please, we’ll take Russel, Alacantra, Vogelbach and CJ Edwards for Syndergaard and den Dekker.
I hate this deal from the Braves perspective. Atlanta’s already lost Harang and has no veteran experience left on the pitching staff. La Stella was also the best depth piece on the team especially without Bonifacio resigned. Just an odd deal all around.
Starlin Castro for Jason Castro?
Hope you aren’t serious lol
It just makes you wonder. Jason Castro is a left handed bat, and you guys need a catcher that’s good. While Castro isn’t Russell he was an All Star last year and he is a pretty fair defensive catcher. It was just a thought. I would really prefer to keep Jason Castro anyway. Catchers that are good are hard to come by.
*shakes head*
Maybe, maybe, MAYBE, Alcantara for Jason Castro. I don’t know much about him, that’s why i say maybe, but he’s not worth starlin
No need for Alcantara on the Astros with Jose Altuve at 2nd and Dexter Fowler in CF. My thought was a SS or possibly a 3rd baseman. I know it would be the only thing that might get Luhnow to possibly realease his #1 catcher. That is a stretch with help coming soon at both positions. He will probably look for stop gap help and keep J. Castro.
Well sorry just Starlin Castro is actually really good. Plus its looking like Cubs are the leaders to get Russell Martin
look the two of them up on baseball reference and then think about the $$ invested in Russell Martin that you could use in other areas… just doesn’t look like a real bad deal, maybe some massaging but it looks like something a couple of GM’s might come up with. Though the Astros are looking for short term help at SS.
You’re not serious I hope. Starlin as a 3-time All-Star at the age of 24. If he goes anywhere, it’s going to be for a superstar ace pitcher, not an average to below average catcher that the Astros may actually be LOOKING to get rid of.
Jason Castro doesn’t add much more then Castillo already does. He might be left-handed, but as a hitter he’s not protecting anyone so it’s a minimal upgrade at best.
factor in that Castro on his own could easily pry loose a Noah Syndergaard from a desperate team, and you’d be massively underselling Castro.
The ‘stros also frankly don’t need him. he’s got 5 years left on the contract and Correa will be up long before then.
I wonder if maybe the Braves are just planning on resigning Bonafacio to be the 2 baseman?
Braves looking to deal for Howie Kendrick?
Doubt it.
Braves are considering 2015 as a “quasi-rebuild.” They wouldn’t trade for a guy on a one year deal.
Could Baez be sent down? I am not really familiar with their farm system, but it does seem that he got rushed to the majors. He struck out in nearly half of his major league AB’s. Maybe Maddon would like him to get more seasoning in AAA. This is not the kind of talent you want to waste by not developing him properly.
Yes and I would, not that my opinion matters.
If that is indeed the plan for Baez, then the trade makes more sense. Braves get some money for IFA, and Cubs get someone to hold 2B until they feel one of their prospects is truly ready to man the position regularly. Seems like minor moves for both sides.
If Baez starts at AAA and La Stella hits, don’t be surprised when Baez starts playing some innings at 3B and even LF for his return. The best-case scenario to me is that La Stella sticks at 2B and his defense doesn’t drown out his offense. Then as a result either Bryant or Baez would have to move to LF and the other sticks at 3B. That is everything sticks the way it is and everyone hits (i.e. Castro at SS, Alcantara hits and plays CF, Soler in RF).
I like this move a lot. Pool money was useless this year for the Cubs and Vizcaino finally started creeping back into minds again as a potential dominant reliever. His value finally came back to be something useful. La Stella going forward likely has a lot more value in him. He’s not going to be Matt Carpenter, but he could be useful if the Cubs don’t have a better leadoff option just because he gets on base. I’m not convinced Alcantara is going to get on base enough to fill that role, I hope I’m wrong and Alcantara can fill that role as the Cubs have been lacking speed at the top of the order for too long.
I’d like to see some more defensive value out of La Stella though. Alcantara and Watkins are useful in that they can play the outfield. Maybe this is something the Cubs work on with La Stella to get his bat in the lineup more often.
And the team that desperately needs to add offense continues to trade it away for pitching (and post-TJ pitching at that). It’s looking more like “say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss” with each passing day for the Braves. That said, this is a good deal for La Stella. Fredi Gonzalez had shown he wasn’t going to give the kid a real chance at the major league level; the Cubs might actually give him a fair shot.
The article states that Ramiro Pena and Phillip Gosselin are the only two 2B’s listed on the 40 man roster – What about Tyler Pastornicky? I know at one point last season Fredi G had said that Pastornicky was going to have the opportunity as the everyday 2B. It’s evident that Fredi G doesn’t like the Rev (comments made to the media, etc) he was given a whopping 4 games to compete for the position. He did have ACL surgery at the end of the 2013 season and came back after only 5 1/2 months of rehab, I’m sure he wasn’t 100%. Just curious why the article would state that there are only two 2B’s on the 40 man.
Baseball-Reference.com still has him listed as under contract with the Braves, but I doubt he’s going to get another shot at 2b with Fredi still managing the team, any more than La Stella was.
This has to be about the international picks, right? I mean the Cubs have a billion ss/3rd base prospects.
So la stella is a 2b man
This has be be about the international picks, right? I mean the Cubs have a billion 2nd base prospects. Still works.
it’s about having a plan b in place in case Baez continues to struggle, they make a major trade, or their OBP issues continue into next season.
Vizcaino was redundant because he’s a right handed power reliever and the international money wasn’t going to be used anyway because of the signing bonus cap.
The Cubs gave up nothing they couldn’t afford to lose and got back a player they can stash in AAA ‘just in case’.