The Blue Jays were the only team that put a fifth year on the table for Russell Martin, tweets Jim Bowden of of ESPN.com, and that was the key to landing the backstop. With Toronto having fired the first major offseason salvo in the AL East, let’s see where things stand elsewhere in the division …
- Martin’s signing does not mark an early conclusion to the Blue Jays’ offseason, but rather opens up new possibilities for GM Alex Anthopoulos, writes Shi Davidi of Sportsnet.ca. The move also highlights Anthopoulos’s desire to “rearrang[e] the clubhouse dynamics,” says Davidi.
- Pablo Sandoval met with the Red Sox today, and the club will also sit down with Jon Lester before the lefty flies off for meetings with other suitors tomorrow, reports WEEI.com’s Rob Bradford. Boston never made an effort to acquire Jason Heyward before he was sent to St. Louis, reports Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald.
- The Yankees are largely waiting and watching at the moment, according to George A. King III of the New York Post. It is possible that the Rangers would be willing to part with shortstop Elvis Andrus, but it remains unknown whether New York would take on enough cash or part with sufficient prospects to make a deal attractive to Texas. And the team’s own free agents still seem to be feeling out the market at present.
- King notes that an arm like Max Scherzer could become increasingly appealing to the Yankees as the offseason progresses, and indeed Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reports that there has been at least “brief contact” between the team and Scott Boras (Scherzer’s agent) since the GM Meetings. New York “may revisit their initial instinct to largely sit this winter out,” per Heyman, who explains that the silence around Scherzer’s market is rather unusual.
I really hope the Yankees share my dislike for Andrus, because that’d be a nightmare acquisition.
I wouldn’t mind having him, but I don’t see it getting done. Rangers would have to eat money and get nothing back.
His offensive numbers have been trending downward at an age when they should be getting better. It’s disturbing.
I really just can’t see Scherzer going to NYY. Just can’t see it..
Let’s open our eyes together.
I hope you’re right. I’d rather the Yankees go for Lester, McCarthy or even Shields over him.
It would depend on what Shields is getting. If it’s 5/110, meh. Scherzer at 7/175 is a lot, but Shields is a good bit older than him, so the question is if you think Scherzer’s two years before he catchs up to Shields in age are worth an additional 65 MM in salary. I think Scherzer’s enough better than Shields to potentially justify it. Neither is a great deal, though, and Shields at 4/80 or 5/100 is definitely better.
I don’t understand. Lester pitches to a ERA under 3 and has no draft pick attached. He has proven to be effective in the AL east. The Yankees should be all over him, especially considering that Tanaka has health concerns and Sabathia is a mess. If the Yankees gave him a big contract, say 6/135 that isn’t a dumb move. Thats a good move for a top of the line pitcher. Probably one of the more justified contracts they’ve given out in recent moves.
I’m with you, i think the Yankees should try Lester, he’s a proved lefty and they need one since Sabathia is getting worse and he’s(Sabathia) the only lefty in their rotation
if 6/135 is enough money to sign Lester I see the Red Sox matching that offer.
Not likely given Henry’s posturing about giving out lengthy contracts to pitchers in their 30s…
Ugh…if Andrus and that ugly contract comes to New York Im gonna barf
Yeah, I really feel like he should be mentioned whenever people talk about bad contracts. $15MM/season isn’t terrible, but Andrus can’t hit at all and there’s 8 more years left (maybe 9). I mean, he was basically Ruben Tejada last year.
But cashman is just scared right now.
I don’t understand. Lester pitches to a ERA under 3 and has no draft pick attached. He has proven to be effective in the AL east. The Yankees should be all over him, especially considering that Tanaka has health concerns and Sabathia is a mess. If the Yankees gave him a big contract, say 6 years for 135 mil, that isn’t a dumb move. Thats a good move for a top of the line pitcher. Probably one of the more justified contracts they’ve given out in recent moves.
I don’t understand. Lester pitches to a ERA under 3 and has no draft pick attached. He has proven to be effective in the AL east. The Yankees should be going after him , especially considering that Tanaka has health concerns and Sabathia is a mess. If the Yankees gave him a big contract, say 6/135 that isn’t a dumb move. Thats a good move for a top of the line pitcher. Probably one of the more justified contracts they’ve given out in recent moves.
I completely understand this thought as well.
But maybe he wants to just pitch for the Cubs or Red Sox?
Lester like all others say the right things about wanting to stay here or go there so whoever puts the most money on the table at somewhere between 25-30 million per season over 6 at 28 mil per or 7 at 26 mil per year then he will be wearing that uniform. Lester will want more to pitch in NY period. He’s a proven winner in the post season and has WS experience and big game experience so we know he can play in one of the top 3 markets. He beat Cancer. Rehabbed and has shown his mental toughness in Boston. I see him going to the National League personally. Another reason the NYY will have to over pay to secure him. Everyone expects extra cash in the till when the NYY come calling.
I know everyone says don’t count Yankees out this offseason, but I don’t see how they can bid on the very top FAs. They have very few tradable big contracts and ARods salary come back on the books. Yankees spent more money than anyone ever last year (500mil+). They are already at the tax threshold. They need to let those contracts shrink a bit before they dive in again.
For example Lester is looking at 22-23mil from Red Sox/Cubs. And, according to your own logic, they probably have to go 25mil, to entice Lester away. They are at the 50% tax level so that becomes 37.5mil, at least for the first couple of years. So Red Sox/Cubs up just 2 more million to 25mil per, Yankees would have to up their offer, now to 40.5mil for the first couple of seasons.
They aren’t in the drivers seat this season, thats why they are going for players they are comfortable with and won’t have to go crazy bid against other for.
No chance at Andrus, yanks go after Ramirez instead too much money owed.
Further the yanks bid on yang, and sign another pitcher.
Hopefully they sign Scherzer. As a yankees fan I would like Miguel Montero from Diamond bwcks ws a bwck up to McCann
Montero is not a back up.
A backup catcher making 3/40. Probably not.
Its the yankees money not an object.
No clue what that means.
Money is definitely an object. With the luxury tax hit, all the salary they add on now is almost doubled.
The yanks are tring not to spend large but, Jays & Soxs are making moves. Cashman don’t want to be left in the dark.
Yankees will start moving quicker now to prepare their roster for 2015
I think there are still a few free agents left. Cashman has no need to make a trade for a $13MM / yr catcher.
He could be as a yankee.
Cashman not scared, Ramirez is a better SS PERIOD
I’m guessing we’re talking about Alexei, not Hanley here?
lol at Scherzers market being silent, perhaps teams are all scared at the fact that Boras is his agent and that he declined a $144 million dollar extension (that pretty much every other free agent pitcher would have accepted)
In other words, Boras falling flat on his face this offseason would be amazing
Except, yknow, Scherzer earned 15 MM last year and is widely expected to earn close to or more than 170 MM after making a good bet on his own production. He was definitely better off turning down 144 MM……
That is only if he gets a deal that lengthy.
Stay away from Max d aamm it! If you feel the need to give out a bad contract give it to Hanley it’ll be shorter
Hanley and Scherzer are both probably commanding seven years.
I’m sure Scherzer is gonna end up getting a year more than Hanley
I can’t see any team giving a 30-year old pitcher eight years guaranteed. Hanley’s great when healthy, and I could see the two of them getting 7/130 and 7/175
I don’t see Sherzer getting 8. I see him getting 7 and Hanley 6
Lester>
Scherzer seems like one of those guys that will be there in January with everyone thinking “where’s his market”. Then you log onto MLBTR one day and see the Yankees signed him for $170MM.
Stahp stahp it. Don’t say such a thing
That’s how it is every year for a Boras client with some team.
Please Yankees, no Scherzer. Spend that money on Headley, McCarthy, Asdrubal and Robertson and we’ll have a great team in 2015.
Isn’t Asdrubal a very below average fielder?
I hope the Yankees do take on Andrus–as long as they pay at least 75% of his contract and give the Rangers some real talent in return (Judge and Severino?).
Nope.
Yeeeeeeeeah, that’s not happening. If the Rangers were to trade Andrus it would be to clear payroll space and they’d get almost nothing in return. Of course, even if the Rangers ate 100% of the contract, they wouldn’t get a haul as good as Judge and Severino, so that proposal was ludicrous on multiple levels. But hey, they’re probably get something back if they ate a lot of money.
They would probably get that if they ate the whole contract. 8 years of andrus free would be very valuable.
Yea, that’s not happening. Andrus isn’t worth 2 top 100 prospects, that very well may be 2 top 50 right now. Let alone with him still owed $90MM.
Less than Zero chance the Yankees do that.
Scherzer will be on the top 10 wrist signing after 2 years especially if he goes to the yanks I’m calling it now
I think he will be alright the first couple years, but yea on the Yankees he doesn’t fit. He gives up way too many flyballs for me to seriously think they should target him, their park is way too small for that.
Once he loses his stuff though that contract is going to be bad. Balls that get in play cause a ton of damage, he just can limit it because he strikes people out. That drops down to 8 per 9 and he back to a backend starter.
Agreed. Look at Verlander as an example.
Exactly why I am weary of Scherzer. I love strikeout pitchers but once that goes, your flaws start to show and you could get pounced like Verlander. Good to have a mix like Lester.
If Scherzer can be had at 150/6 years (maybe a 7th year vesting option Innings picthed) say his market falls apart (so to speak) and this becomes his best offer… Do you think its a contract the Yankees should jump on???
No.
Dare to say why, I’d like to hear why people??? I’m more for Lester but this is worth a discussion…
42% flyball rates don’t fit well in NY. They didn’t work for Hughes either. and 3 of the other teams in the division have small ballparks. I just don’t see the fit for them. Comparatively I think he would be a great pick for a team with a large ballpark looking to spend money.
Fair enough and great points… To compare him to Hughes at this point is off base, I see why you made the comp. but Hughes couldn’t get past strike 2 and was a HR machine! But yea, along with the fact that he has a draft pick attached and we need hitting in the worse way, its beyond not a fit….
Would you pull the trigger on Lester if he ask for a Ellsbury contract???
Would all depend how much NY was willing to spend. I’d rather see them target hitters first, I think that’s their bigger need at this time.
He isn’t Hughes, but I would rather Lester at that price than him, but would target hitters first. It just scares me a bit spending so much on a pitcher that always gives up a ton of flyballs, but at the same time has been riding on having a very low rate of those fb going for home runs.
You have to build your team with your ballpark in mind.
So I take it when you say hitters you are referring to the top free agent hitter Hanley??? I would be safe to exclude Nelson Cruz from the mix??? I personally do not consider Headly a hitter more of a glove with a passable stick occasional pop… no one that will pull the offense through the mud…. really, who is out there in your estimation that we grab ??? The way I see it the hitters market is weak beyond Cruz and Hanley, so I say if you cant sign hitters, go get some pitchers…
Would you look at a Justin Upton trade???
I’d look at Headley/Hanley. It’s just we still don’t know how much they will spend. With Arod back on the books they only have like $20MM to spend before they hit $200MM. If that’s their limit they need a hitter to prevent having others there. I really don’t think Cruz fits. They have 3 outfielders already and as it is Beltran should be DH, but Arod is already there. And Cruz should be DH to begin with. Upton doesn’t particulary fit the team the best, unless they can move an outfielder or bench Arod.
The biggest needs are 3B/SS. Look to fill those spots there first, if you can’t then start targeting the imperfect fits like Upton.
I think headley and Hanley are both 3b though,,Maybe Hanley can fake SS for another year or two but you cannot have two 3b signed simultaneously going forward… So its either one not both… Also, I think Gardner gets moved here very shortly, and in whatever we can get from that, pry away upton from the braves whom seem to be willing to implode the team as long as they get young “controllable” talent going forward… Would you be opposed to a Pineda + prospects obtained for Gardner for upton??? Just spit balling
I think headley and Hanley are both 3b though,,Maybe Hanley can fake SS for another year or two but you cannot have two 3b signed simultaneously going forward… So its either one not both… Also, I think Gardner gets moved here very shortly, and in whatever we can get from that, pry away upton from the braves whom seem to be willing to implode the team as long as they get young “controllable” talent going forward… Would you be opposed to a Pineda + prospects obtained for Gardner for upton??? Just spit balling
I think headley and Hanley are both 3b though,,Maybe Hanley can fake SS for another year or two but you cannot have two 3b signed simultaneously going forward… So its either one not both… Also, I think Gardner gets moved here very shortly, and in whatever we can get from that, pry away upton from the braves whom seem to be willing to implode the team as long as they get young “controllable” talent going forward… Would you be opposed to a Pineda + prospects obtained for Gardner for upton??? Just spit balling
I think headley and Hanley are both 3b though,,Maybe Hanley can fake SS for another year or two but you cannot have two 3b signed simultaneously going forward… So its either one not both… Also, I think Gardner gets moved here very shortly, and in whatever we can get from that, pry away upton from the braves whom seem to be willing to implode the team as long as they get young “controllable” talent going forward… Would you be opposed to a Pineda + prospects obtained for Gardner for upton??? Just spit balling
I think headley and Hanley are both 3b though,,Maybe Hanley can fake SS for another year or two but you cannot have two 3b signed simultaneously going forward…
The Tigers already offered him 6/$144MM with no realistic counter offer. They would have obviously agreed to 6/$150MM last year. If he dips down that far again, the Tigers will likely jump back in and trade Porcello or Price.
Doubt it after the contract they gave Martinez. Signing Scherzer to that contract would leave the Tigers with 128 MM dollars committed to only 6 players, all over the age of 30, in 2016.
They were already going to sign Scherzer and VMART (plan as of last off season).
Now they are on track to sign PRICE and VMART. Scherzer would just get the contract that Price would have been offered.
I personally think Manny Banuelos is going to be a big sleeper this year for our staff.. I think he is far enough from surgery that we can expect him to revert back to his 2011 form… Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but I think the Yankees know they have him in the mix and know they do not have to go head over heels as in the past they did and sign a regrettable contract…… They can’t come out and say we think Manny will have a big impact on the staff for a multitude of reasons, one of them being in NY people will not be pleased with that course of action, they want headlines and back-page drama, but I got a good feeling about the guy….
I’ll wait and see. He has lost a ton of development time over the past 3 years, but the guy is only 23 still and in AAA. I don’t think you can count on him this year, but have him more as a Pineda was this year, but he won’t start in the majors.
Oh for sure not going to start in the majors, maybe a mid season call up best case scenario… but he is a bulldog, and I think he has flown under the radar, which is a blessing in disguise… and a rare feat for a top prospect thins day in age especially in NYC
I think he is a rare exception to where I don’t think the lost development time will hurt his as much being he came up at 19 and was damn near MLB ready control wise… If he feels strong enough this year I think they let him loose a bit and the MLB will remember this kid… but yea… lol sorry…
He was a top 50 by BA in 2011 and 2012, so he has gotten some attention. It’s just he has lost so much time. Back as a 20 year old doing decent in AA leads to a lot better projection than doing the same thing 3 years later. There are quite a few guys around the minors that have a lot going for them if they can just get it all together. He still is young enough that he has quite a bit of potential to be a great starter, but he is a wildcard, too many guys fail at the point he is at.
He just has the look for a winner… A successful breed so to speak.. I know I’m not backing up my opinion with RAW data , but mostly because there isn’t at at this point of the discussion. I just got a gut feeling about him, but in the meantime we should seriously consider something stern as the winter meetings loom…
Great discussion. It has been a pleasure for what it is worth!
I think we’ll see an incredibly busy winter meetings (with Scherzer and the pitching market really swinging). Dominoes for the hot stove are already starting to drop
Everyone should realize that until you get past Teixiera, A-Rod and CC contracts we aren’t really a play-off viable team. Maybe by dumb luck. Right now, get Headley & McCarthy to stay a competitive team. No pitcher contacts over 3 yrs for over 30 arms, no contracts over 5 yrs for ANYONE.
Everyone should realize that until you get past Teixiera, A-Rod and CC
contracts we aren’t really a play-off viable team. Maybe by dumb luck.
Right now, get Headley & McCarthy to stay a competitive team. No
pitcher contacts over 3 yrs for over 30 arms, no contracts over 5 yrs
for ANYONE.
” New York “may revisit their initial instinct to largely sit this winter out,” ……
You mean like the 9 of the last 10 years.
Love Jon Heyman’s “brief contact” between the Yankees and Scott Boras. You do wonder what that might mean. Heyman’s piece is a classic for him–he anoints the Boras client, Scherzer, as the top free agent pitcher, and speculates how the Yankees might rethink their reticence to bid heavily for him (no one else, of course). Presumably, based on “brief contact” which could be anything from “howdie Scott” while passing in a hallway, to being in the same zip code. If I were the Yankees, I wouldn’t bid on Scherzer. He may be a bad match for the Stadium, he comes with a draft pick attached, and he’s not in the least coming at a reasonable price. The Yankees can better invest their money elsewhere.
Heyman/Boras propaganda machine hypothesis is interesting. I do not think there is a direct connection. I just think that Boras is very convincing to Heyman.
This quote, obviously given to him by Boras, was most peculiar to me:
“Among the top free-agent pitchers, Scherzer has thrown by far the fewest pitches, with 20,954, to 26,321 for Lester, and 29,461 for James Shields.”
I do not understand this logic. What about all of the pitches Scherzer threw in University of Missouri. Those pitches don’t count?
We tend not to think about baseball like we do about football, where a lot of these kids are already somewhat battered when they get through the “minor leagues” of college. But you are absolutely right.
It’s not unusual for teams to be silent on Scherzer when they see he turned down a reasonable offer from the Tigers at 6yrs/$144M. They are probably thinking “that’s more than we would have offered him.” I think he made a mistake by not accepting that offer and he may regret it.
Why would boston make an effort to trade for Heyward? They have so many outfielders as it is
If it is an american league team then, Whatever American League team trades for Hamels has to be crazy trading away top prospects for someone who has had a bad sample showing in the AL. When I say bad, I mean not worth 20 million per year. Instead the team woild be smarter to put out just a little more money, keep their prospects and get a proven AL pitcher such as Lester, Shields, or Scherzer.
If I was going to trade for an ace I would deal for Johnny Cueto. I would then lock him up long term. He is 28 approaching his prime. And won’t demand nearly as much in return as Hamels would.
Scherzer’s market will develop. Lester, a comparable pitcher with a lower asking price and no draft pick compensation attached, just needs to sign first.
If Lester is “comparable” and has a lower asking price, and no draft pick penalty… why would Scherzer expect to get more?
Less strikeouts and no Scott Boras to deal with.
“the silence around Scherzer’s market is rather unusual.” Maybe Owners and GMs are done with Scott Boras.
I don’t necessarily think so. But, if I were looking to sign a top pitcher, why not try Lester first–no draft pick and no Boras, and probably a bit less than Scherzer, or Shields, with loss of pick, but for a shorter term and AAV, and no Boras? The problem dealing with Boras is that he plays the game of musical chairs, and he makes you wait until all the music stops and you need to sit, regardless of cost. Most of the time (Drew/Morales being exceptions) that really works well. If you are in the market for a top-tier pitcher, you may want to resolve it, commit your dollars early, and know what’s left to spend.
I don’t see the Yankees signing Scherzer, and if they do, they’re fooling themselves. If a six-year, $144MM contract couldn’t fulfill his needs, that means a team would have to go above and beyond that. I doubt the Yankees would even offer that, and besides they’re pretty well stocked for pitching (Tanaka, Sabathia, Pineda, Phelps, Greene, eventually Nova), especially if they re-sign McCarthy