Team chairman Tom Werner and COO Sam Kennedy have no regrets over how the Red Sox handled their extension talks with Jon Lester, WEEI.com’s Alex Speier reports, even though the lack of progress led to Lester being traded to Oakland at the deadline. Kennedy felt that there wasn’t anything to regret since the negotiations were amicable on both sides, though Werner wished more talks had taken place. “I don’t want to go back too much, but let me just say that we expected a little more dialogue back and forth than happened. But I’ll take our share of responsibility in that,” Werner said. Both executives said the Sox would look to rebuild the rotation for 2015, and Kennedy hinted that the team’s alleged distaste for long-term deals for pitchers in their 30’s isn’t necessarily as rigid as believed.
Here’s some more from Fenway Park…
- Daniel Nava received some trade interest from the Giants at the July deadline, Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports. This is just my speculation, but I wonder if San Francisco could pursue Nava again this offseason if Mike Morse isn’t re-signed. The Tigers and Royals were also rumored to be in on Nava last summer.
- Cafardo’s piece breaks down the Red Sox roster and examines who the team should consider trading. Mookie Betts, for instance, seems to be “the Red Sox prospect teams want most in a deal” according to conversations with rival scouts, yet Cafardo feels Betts’ talent and versatility makes him too valuable a piece to move.
- David Ross isn’t sure if he’ll be back in Boston next season or even if his career could be over, the veteran catcher told reporters (including John Tomase of the Boston Herald) yesterday. Ross will be 38 on Opening Day 2015 and he’s been a non-factor at the plate for the last two seasons, though his defense and ability to mentor pitchers and young players in general is greatly respected. John Farrell said Ross is under consideration to return to the Sox next year, and Ross could make sense as a veteran backup to Christian Vazquez.
I don’t really understand why Nava is still on the team.
Because he’s good?
He’s not really part of the future though. His value is pretty much at its highest and I don’t think the Sox are committed to giving Nava regular playing time.
“He’s not really part of the future though.”
He’s still under team control all the way through 2017 (assuming their is an agreement on salary arbitration which I believe starts this off-season, correct?)
Where is he going to play? Farrell should have every player grow their beards back so he can play musical outfielders and no one will notice.
Putting him on the bench is a possibility, but I’d like to see them do something that doesn’t ruin the value of a 3+ WAR player.
OF/1B. You can probably trade Victorino and make the OF a mix of Cespdes/Castillo/Betts/Nava.
Cespedes, Castillo, and Betts are all everyday players. If Betts could play 3B it’d fix a lot of problems, though.
I honestly don’t think Cespedes is as good as many make him out to be. Castillo and Betts are too inexperienced. I do agree they are all starters, but I wouldn’t say Betts and Castillo are starters I can trust due to inexperience and youth. But there’s no doubt they are all going to start. They already had too much faith in another trio of JBJ, Boagerts and Middlebrooks.
My point is, I think the Sox should keep Nava.
I agree they put too much faith in the duo of JBJ and Middlebrooks but I think the signing of Stephen Drew messed with his head. And if you look at Bogaerts, yes did he not have the year that he was expected to have but I think for his first full year he had a good year. JBJ needs to go back to AAA and work on his swing. The Red Sox should know not to sign another SS.
Agreed. I expect a good season next year from Bogaerts.
Many people blame Cespedes for Oakland’s failures, which is foolish. I think he’ll have a good year next year, but he’s a tad overrated.
There’s nothing foolish about that. Oakland didn’t have to trade him at all. Chemistry > Statistics.
They didn’t have to, but I don’t buy into the notion that he was the linchpin holding the whole team together.
I think Cespedes is terribly overrated too. He’s so lackadaisical in the outfield that it drives me insane. But we’re stuck with him and he needs to play everyday. Betts and Castillo at least need that chance out of the gate. Nava could be a spring training move but he’s looking at very little playing time out of the gate next year, barring an injury to Napoli, Ortiz, or an outfielder.
I know he has the range, but does he have the arm for 3B?
I believe that’s why he moved from SS to 2B originally. Not a great arm for the left side of the infield. Someone can correct me if I’m misremembering.
It was more of an accuracy thing than an arm strength thing, which may well have been fixed since then. Also, he was originally moved because he was on the same team as Marrero (the Sox first overall pick in 2012 who got 3-4x as much money as Mookie to sign, and is an outstanding defender at SS).
Creepy
Cespedes, Castillo, Betts, Nava, Craig, Holt, Bradley, Brentz, Cechinni and Victorino are all guys under contract next season who play the outfield..
If they trade Victorino, Brentz, Nava and send Cechinni and Bradley to AAA that leaves Cespedes, Castillo, Betts, Craig, Holt. This could be their OF. If they were to keep Nava then I could see Holt playing more IF and Nava and Craig taking some time at 1B and DH.
Cech is a third baseman and JBJ is a definite for AAA. Craig is terrible and I don’t think Brentz is considered to be ready either. Holt is probably the first guy to get a shot at third. Victorino probably needs to get traded but his value is super low right now x_x
Although Cechinni has spent the majority of his professional baseball career as a 3B he has played some LF so i kinda had to list him as an outfield candidate. If Bradley can get it together in spring at the plate he could make the team potentially as a bench outfielder. But probably he will start at AAA. Brentz hit .350 this year in his brief time with the Big Club. He showed tons of raw power and a rifle of an arm. He could be considered in part of a trade. Holt and Middlebrooks will more than likely begin as a platoon with Holt playing other positions on the days middlebrooks plays 3rd. I can see Victorino being dealt in the spring as part of a package if he has a solid spring with not setbacks this off-season. Yes, his value is at an all-time low right now which is why i say wait for
him to perform well in the spring and not have any setbacks this off-season.
I more think he meant that he was surprised that Nava wasn’t moved at the deadline while his value was very high. At least, I was surprised by that. It’s hard to find a place for him on the team next year with an already-crowded outfield.
If anyone who was still active on the Red Sox after the deadline that should have been dealt at the deadline, it’s Koji.
I 100% agree that Koji should’ve been traded at the deadline (I feel like I’ve made at least half a dozen comments to that effect xD). Though I also think Nava should and could have been moved. Just can’t see him getting regular playing time in 2015.
Both Koji and Nava should have been moved. I don’t really see Nava’s value going up with the logjam.
There’s a bit of hindsight since we didn’t know we’d have Castillo, but still.
Well, we had Cespedes and Craig. I was calling for Nava’s trade here before Castillo.
When I think of all the Sox outfielders, I always think of Craig last. I like it that way.
Having Craig means nothing. He’s awful.
My least favorite move Cherington’s made. Subtraction by subtraction.
With the lack of LH bats both in the outfield and infield, Nava makes a certain amount of sense in my eyes. They need at least one left-handed bat to fill in out there. I don’t know that getting rid of Nava and looking for a left-handed bat on the market would be a good use of resources. I’m bullish on keeping Betts though so if you see that different than myself you might be inclined to let Nava go and do something else.
I get the lefty argument, but I don’t think it’s enough to keep Nava if there’s a trade partner out there. Which there probably will be.
That said, if Victorino is moved, he probably stays. I’m not in love with that plan, but we have a million outfielders.
Is Nava out of options? He must be after this year. That’s been part of the appeal on him……stash him at Pawtucket and grab him when he is needed. He must be out by now. I guess as far as the left-handed OF goes Holt could fill in with similar overall value. To me Victorino is a sunk cost. His injuries worry me given the nature of his game….speed, defense. I’m ok with him on the roster but I just have a hard time counting on him. Craig HAS to go but this outfield situation is going to be good debate till it’s all smoothed over.
We creepy
Considering where he was before getting sent to AAA and how he ended up on the season, batting wise, I think he’s a serviceable option over someone like JBJ, who should get sent back to Pawtucket.
Is a more serviceable option than Betts or Craig. I don’t think that the Sox will trade Napoli, so means Craig is going to be in the outfield in some way, shape or form.
“Kennedy hinted that the team’s alleged distaste for long-term deals for
pitchers in their 30′s isn’t necessarily as rigid as believed.”
I don’t see how, I cant imagine another situation besides Lester where they would do anything different. It might be less rigid now given how it all transpired and looking forward I bet they wouldn’t do it again the same way if a similar even came in the future.
They did sign John Lackey to a long term deal when he was in his 30s and extended Beckett.
The philosophy began with the departure of Theo. Ben C and crew haven’t touched anything of this sort.
No, the Red Sox have been known to shy away from big money pitching deals long before Theo even came around.
You don’t think Lackey and Beckett’s deals were big at the time?
I was merely rebutting the poster’s claim that the distaste was as a rigid as believed.
Not at all. That’s John Henry’s policy. It was the reason Theo didn’t offer four years to Pedro and the Mets outbid the Sox. The Beckett and Lackey contracts were exceptions which occurred at a time the Sox FO was loosing discipline. Cherington’s instatement reverted the Sox to a policy they held but forgot.
Except it was the Lackey and Crawford deals along with the Beckett and Gonzalez extensions which really drove the Red Sox away from long term commitments for players in their 30’s.
The whole “Sox hate pitcher contracts” has existed beyond that, though obviously the events of August 2012 played a huge part in why that continues to be the case.
No. The John Henry sox shied away from long-term contracts for older players from the beginning. Remember the 2004 negotiations with Pedro? Theo lost that contract because they wouldn’t go to four guaranteed years. The Lackey and Beckett contracts are examples of cases where the Sox stopped following their principles, not proof that the principle did not exist.
They also traded them off which seems to cement this philosophy that those kinds of contracts were bad. Had Lackey not had the surgery clause in his contract it would have been close to a disaster.
That philosophy has existed for longer than Werner’s been around. That’s why Clemens went bye-bye in the 90s and why people were shocked that the committed to Pedro for such a large number.
They need solid innings at the top of the rotation. One of Lester/Shields is an absolute necessity even if it’s a bad long term investment. If they get three decent years out of a 6 or seven year contract so be it.
or Scherzer
When it comes down to it they do not have a number one or two right now. I could see Lester and Masterson.
I doubt Kennedy has a lot of say in personnel moves….having said that the need is to bring back a top of the line starter at a minimum and probably two. The good news is they certainly have the resources both in dollars and prospects.
As for the outfield, it’s difficult to say what is going to happen, I highly doubt they move Victorino with his value where it is right now due to the surgery. Cespedes has to be here and bat fourth unless amother major move is made for a middle of the order bat which is unlikely, and with the money given to Castillo he has to project as the centerfielder or rightfielder. Nava probably goes in a deal.. Should make for an interesting hot stove.
And don’t forget about Mookie Betts who showed us this year that he can play in the show. And also don’t forget he just learned to play the OF this season.
I don’t see Nava being moved unless the Red Sox manage to sign a left handed or switch hitting third baseman in the off season. Trading Nava would leave you with one left handed starter (Ortiz) and Holt as a supersub. Not enough left handed presence in the lineup. It’s more likely that they’ll look to trade Victorino, which would free up a position for Betts and leave Nava as a fourth outfielder and maybe JBJ as a fifth.
I’ve thought about Victorino trade options for awhile and have come to the conclusion that unless they can get something to take 50%, they’re better off keeping him until Spring Training where he can show he’s healthy and someone can get injured.
It’s more likely to be several weeks or even a month into the season so he can prove he’s healthy and is still able to contribute. If not, he ends up being a part time player with Betts taking some of his at bats Nava as a fifth outfielder and JBJ in the minors. Or they may move someone else. But of all the outfielders Vic makes the most sense.
I guess a lot of that depends on other teams. The thought of eating most of his salary to send him away if he’s not completely broken is not particularly appealing.
I don’t think you’d have to eat most of it. Some maybe. But you can’t rely on him to stay healthy. Who knows, a lot could happen between now and next April. He may not even be ready to go at the beginning of the season.
I think half is the bare minimum. And anything higher is not such a great move for the Sox.
It’s only 13 million. Even if you eat half it costs you 6.5. Not too much to get Betts into the lineup every day.
I think sorting out the outfield comes down to Cespedes, Castillo, Betts, Nava and one of Victorino, Craig with JBJ at Triple A. Infield of Napoli, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Holt and Sandoval/Headley/A Ramirez. Ortiz at DH. Vazquez/? at catcher.
They are reportedly looking to acquire a lefty hitting 3B this off-season.
I know. I don’t think that makes Nava anymore dispensable. I should have stated that in my original post. I don’t think he’s going anywhere.
Cespedes, Napoli and Middlebrooks to Miami for Stanton, eating some of Napoli’s contract. Miami wants Cespedes and has since he arrived. Papi’s bat won’t last much longer. Holt/Craig at 1B. Victorino is too fragile to get anything of value in trade. Spend the money for Lester and Shields, Ross is a great mentor and a reliable backup for another year. Josh Johnson could be a short money high value pick up, who is worth a look in Ft Myers, and add David Robertson. Koji is good, but not 162 game good. Oh, and I’s have zero issue with Headley at 3B in Boston.
Why would Miami do that? Middlebrooks hasn’t shown enough, Cespedes will be gone in a year, and Napoli is expensive, old, and also has just a year left. Stanton is a first rank talent–they are going to want to see high quality long-term pieces in return.
That might be the single worst Stanton trade proposal I’ve ever read.
i once thought Stanton for a carton of eggs was the worst deal ive heard for the Marlins side. I now stand corrected.
Swihart will be starting Catcher in 2016, if Sox trade Betts, they are crazy. And Nava is a good ballplayer.
I agree 100%