Top prospects must often react to failure for the first time in their career at the major league level, writes the Providence Journal’s Brian MacPherson in a pair of articles (first, second). Red Sox manager John Farrell points to the mental side and getting to know his young players. Their ability to handle adversity can explain the different developmental patterns for players like Will Middlebrooks, Xander Bogaerts, and Jackie Bradley – all of whom have experienced similar struggles this season. Bogaerts has played through the worst of his slump while Middlebrooks and Bradley Jr. spent time in the minors. Teams can also use veterans like David Ross to help young players like Christian Vazquez transition to the majors.
- Continuing our theme, Eno Sarris of FanGraphs wonders if the Indians ought to trade Francisco Lindor this offseason. The club is pleasantly surprised with Jose Ramirez, who features superb defense and a typical bat for a shortstop. While his .256/.298/.339 slash is unexciting, it’s comparable to the average line produced by all major league shortstops – .250/.306/.362 (and that line includes Troy Tulowitzki). Shortstop prospects are the most common in baseball, and they bust 10 percent more frequently than any other position. Perhaps the Indians ought to consider acquiring a “sure thing” for their top prospect.
Eno Sarris has no clue. Lindor is the Tribe’s SS of the future, and is under team control for several years to come. Ramirez is a 2nd baseman by trade, and would be an upgrade defensively over Kipnis at 2nd. But since Kip supposedly has a better bat, he’ll probably get the nod from Francona. I would rather they trade Kipnis, since he would bring a better value in return. Our need for a RH power bat has been evident for years. Package Kip with another prospect and that might lead to getting one.
How would Kipnis bring better value after such a poor season? Itd be selling terribly low
Because he was an AS last season, and is more proven at the ML level than Lindor or Ramirez. If you use Kip in a trade package, then what you include in that package can be a lesser player than what you would have to include with the other two.
Then theoretically they should have traded him last offseason. This season he was awful. Hes gone from 5.9 WAR to 1.1 if you want to use that but his stats are down across the board. Lindor would get the Indians more.
Did you read the article? The topic was about trading Lindor in the coming off-season, not the last one.
Tko11 was refering to trading Kipnis last year.
I kind of figured that out already. And I was talking about trading him this off-season. My point was that we’d be better off trading Kipnis before we trade Lindor. Last season is history(this season is almost, too).
My issue was with the guy from FanGraphs suggesting trading the player that’s been groomed to be the SS of the future for the Tribe. And with his impressive showing this season holding down that spot, Ramirez needs to be retained in some capacity. My preference would be to put him at 2nd, trade Kipnis and another prospect(?), and acquire something we’ve needed for several years now—a RH power bat.
Nobody would have considered trading Kip last off-season, after his good season. But he does have a team-friendly contract, so maybe now is the time.
The main point is that no one is giving the Indians much for Kipnis now. Lindor is a hyped up prospect and because of the rate at which SS prospects fail, the author suggest trading him which I think is a fair point. Kipnis had one good season and one okay season and is a late bloomer, this season was a major step back for him.
Well, I can see the author’s point, but Lindor shows too much promise to trade away. That was the reason I suggested a trade package with Kipnis and a prospect(or two).
Just curious, but who would you package with Kip in a trade?
All prospects fail even some of the really big ones with lots of hype do.
All prospects fail? It might be hard to field 30 decent MLB teams if that was true.
To be a good manager or a good anything the secret is DO NOT make a big mistake. Trading Kipnis or Lindor could be a big mistake. Kipnis has had an OK season despite nagging injuries. One year ago he was on a par with Cano. Patience Indian fans.
I was reading your reply with interest until you made a Kipnis/Cano comparison. You’re kidding, right?
Let me ask you this: would you trade Kinsler for Kipnis?
That could actually happen. Detroit needs payroll flexibility. The Indians would have to take on his whole salary though, which is problematic.
Of course he is not the hitter Cano is. But for a couple of months last year his stats were better. I have Cano/Kipnis/Kinsler on my AL only fantasy team. Kinsler is 5 years older than Kipnis, so if only for that I would prefer Kipnis. Kipnis has to prove himself again in 2015 for sure.
Power is scarce. Kipnis could be part of a package that gets a guy, but he wouldn’t be a significant part of a deal for a good player.
It’s called a suggestion, and Eno knows what he’s talking about. Great baseball writer…
I think it’s more likely that Lindor doesn’t get traded and stays in AAA for most of 2015 while Cleveland sorts through what they have between Ramirez, Kipnis, and Chisenhall.
They could also move Kipnis back to the outfield since that’s what he originally played and put Ramirez at 2nd and Lindor at SS.
Perhaps the Red Sox should be asking themselves if Farrell is the man for the job moving forward. His management style clearly worked when the team was dominated by veteran players who knew what to do. But when promising young players were with the Sox this year, all struggled. Besides Middlebrooks, Bogaerts and Bradley, you also saw Vasquez struggle at the plate and Webster, Workman, Ranaudo and De La Rosa struggle to find any consistency on the mound. That’s more than just a couple of players who didn’t take steps forward this season. A bit too many?
While I wouldn’t put it completely on him, it’s also worth noting that not a single noteworthy Jays prospect developed while he was at the helm in Toronto.
Farrell was the right guy to fix the mess Valentine made. As a Sox fan, I’m not really nuts about him.
Would you like Francona back? Because a lot of Tribe fans are not enamored with him, either.
No thanks. I personally liked Francona and feel bad that things ended the way they did. But he lost that clubhouse and he needed to go.
He was also at the helm when Betts, Holt, Layne, and Wilson came up. And yes Vazquez has struggled at the plate. It was the consensus in the organization that he was a defense first catcher. Which he has done very well with.
Sometimes you have to lay the blame for poor performance at the foot of the players themselves, and at the foot of the General Manager who made three young players so important to the success of this team. Young players struggle. That comes with the territory, but you don’t put them in a position where they need to produce or the team cannot be successful. This failure is with the GM not the manager.
Blaming the manager for a team’s failure is silly. They are more responsible for the atmosphere in the club house than anything else. Few of the decisions they make on a regular basis have anything to do with whether the team wins the game.
Is Farrell great? No. Was he given a team that was capable of success this year? Also a no.
Maybe, maybe not. But you did hit on something. While you say blaming a manager for team failure is silly you follow that up with stating the manager is responsible for the club house atmosphere. Are you saying that creating a bad club house atmosphere can’t be responsible for rookies and young players not feeling welcome? I would suggest you might have hit the nail on the head. Farrell doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who welcomes new guys onto a team and that would be very bad for young impressionable types.
Are we not able to move Middlebrooks from “prospect” to “failed major leaguer” yet?
Not an Indians fan, but I don’t think the Indians should trade any of the three of Lindor, Ramirez, or Kipnis. LIndor now that Javier Baez is in the majors is without a doubt the best or possibly 2nd best (Addison Russell, also of the Cubs is close or maybe a better prospect, imo) should be almost untouchable at this moment. All this hype over Ramirez seems a bit much, especially coming from Eno Harris. The guy has played less than a half season. He seems to be better major leaguer than anyone expected so far, but to think about trading Lindor because of him is dumb. Kipnis isn’t worth much right now, so they might as well put him in the OF if they want to go with Lindor & Ramirez in 2015, maybe he can become useful again or at least improve his value.