Let’s take a look at a few notes from around the National League …
- Some in the game believing there is an obvious trade match between the Cubs, who are loaded with middle infield prospects, and a Mets club laden with young arms, says John Harper of the New York Daily News. New York is somewhat disinclined to move its better starting pitching prospects in exchange for Chicago’s current starting shortstop, Starlin Castro, and are more attracted to the younger Addison Russell and Javier Baez. The Mets don’t believe the latter player could be had, even if they were willing to part with top prospect Noah Syndergaard, leading Harper to indicate that a move for Russell appears the most realistic possibility.
- Whether or not it’s the case, it is time for the Mets to act like they are only a piece or two away from contention, writes Andy Martino of the New York Daily News. With several young players generating excitement, Matt Harvey working back for the spring, and many of the team’s young hurlers in the bigs or the upper minors, another season of development at the big league level would be a huge disappointment, says Martino.
- Diamondbacks chief baseball officer Tony LaRussa is still keeping a poker face about where he intends to take the organization, writes Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic. He noted that the club’s course would begin to clarify soon, with the offseason fast approaching. One focal point that did emerge was the D’backs’ instructional league, where the longtime manager indicated he will be active and involved in imparting his playing philosophies on Arizona’s best young talent.
- Regarding the seemingly tenuous employment situations of Diamondbacks GM Kevin Towers and manager Kirk Gibson, LaRussa seemed to indicate that clarity could be forthcoming once the offseason begins, though he declined to give any timetable. “I don’t think the timing for each of those has to coincide,” he said, referring to the GM and manager. “I just think that at this point, we’re at August 18. I’ve been around three months. I’ve observed a lot, talked to and met with a lot of people in the organization. I have a much better idea.”
I agree with that assessment for the Mets. The NL East is not impenetrable. Spend some money and get out of this middling ground that’s doing no favors to anyone.
I live about 40 mins away from Citi Field and I’ve seen so many instances of people not even being able to give away Mets tickets. Nobody cares about that franchise anymore. Time for a change.
Amazingly enough, the Mets under Sandy Alderson are in far worse shape than they were under the guidance of much-maligned Steve Phillips, Jim Duquette, and Omar Minaya. That’s really, really sad.
I don’t follow them too well, but how is that right? Anderson hasn’t made poor signings or traded away minor league talent for rentals/scrubs when they aren’t in contention.
He’s gotten Wheeler. Noah, D’Arnaud back in trades.
Seems as though after the debacle that was Minaya, the team may be stagnant but aren’t under worse times than 3 of the prior GMs?
He’s made some poor signings: frank Francisco and Chris young come to mind
But those weren’t moves that would have put them over the top. At least they weren’t meant to be.
Young was a poor allotment of resources. That money could have been used in many different ways, including pieces that could have netted them prospects. A 7.25 million Young wasn’t going to do that.
He might have. The Chris Young of 2011-12 had a ~.750 OPS with speed and could play CF. That would have brought talent back at deadline time.
He took a risk; it didn’t work.
He could have, but he wasn’t worth the money they paid him. He was worth about half. The other half could’ve gone to another reclamation project and doubled the Mets’ chances at a decent return.
Sometimes they pan out, sometimes they don’t. I don’t see you throwing him under the bus for signing Byrd a couple years ago. Seems pretty poor taste to call out all his failures and then overlooks his successes. Black and Herrera are two VERY nice pieces that were obtained from Byrd. Nobody hits on all of their trades and draft picks, but Sandy when Sandy misses, he seems to miss on short term deals, and we can live with those.
Young was a huge whiff.
Jose Abreu makes $7 mill this year playing for the White Sox but the Mets would rather sign free agents who almost by definition are on the downside of their careers than think outside of the box and sign a can’t miss Cuban defector.
A few small time deals didn’t work out.
I follow them and Andrew is up in the night. The franchise is in fabulous shape for the first time in a few decades. IF the owners open up the wallet this winter, with only two FA signings, they don’t have to trade anyone for needs. They can trade Noah for Russell if they can or want to, then keep Gee in the rotation, or trade Gee for prospects. Colon will be traded either way to free up salary. If they sign Hardy and Melky this winter though, they are a very formidable, balanced, and young team that can grow and compete for a LONG time.
why trade Gee? until his DL stint he was a top 5 MLB pitcher. right up there with Kershaw.
wheeler might be a trade chip but he’s having a better rookie year than Verlander did and his losses are probably part of a learning process to learn new pitches and better control
2015 rotation candidates: Harvey, Wheeler, Colon, Gee, Niese, Syndergaard, DeGrom, Montero. If you stash Montero in AAA to keep him as the spot starter, you gotta trade two of the group above. Colon is one. Niese is the only LHP. Gee has two years left on his deal and is at max value right now for trade purposes, while the others all have many more years left. Who do YOU trade?
after Hefner, harvey is a maybe and it will take time for him to get back into the grind. Syndergaard hasn’t pitched an inning in MLB and it’s very possible he will be a 4+ ERA pitcher his first year or year and a half.
that leaves wheeler, gee, niese, degrom and Colon who might be traded or just retire this winter. Gee and Niese are somewhat injury prone. DL this year and i think they were both on the DL last year for a few months.
the pitching is fairly decent now, the bullpen is a lot better than last year too. they need some power bats now. even trading away a few of the lower end bats should make a difference
I’m thinking Niese goes. Try to build a package around him for Cespedes or Bautista.
Niese, Montero, MDD(CF) and Flores(2B/3B/DH) for J. Bautista?
I’d look to try and sign a SS like Lowrie or Hardy in the offseason, while giving Murphy a 3 year extension.
I trade Niese before he gets any closer to FA to maximize our player returns on him. Gee cant stay healthy long enough and other teams know that. why do we need a lefty in the rotation anyways??
yes, but trading Niese leaves no left handers in the rotation. I think we could deal with it though until Matz comes up which will likely be mid next year
Sean, to me, having no lefthanders in the rotation is no big deal. as long as you have lefty specialists for the late innings, you will be fine. If Sandy gets a good offer for Niese, hopefully he will be gonzo. he is easily replaceable with our pitching depth now.
easy – trade the vets as the young guys are cheaper have higher upsides. i’d have no hesitation moving colon, gee, niese or murphy. i’d be thrilled to move wright and brandy as well but neither of those are happening.
no way they don’t extend murphy. wright is having a bad year.
i like murph but the mets would be very smart to move him while his value is high. we have several internal replacements that can give approximately the same value with higher upside (Flores and Dilson Herrera)
Gee is a .500 pitcher which is sometimes a valuable commodity but top five? Never.
I wouldn’t put too much of the blame on Alderson. He’s made moves for their future. He just hasn’t done a great job of cleaning up the mess right now.
Rebuilding the franchise image will take time. The teams been on a downward slide since the days of their September collapses. I’m just not sure he’s doing enough to put them in a good position to capitalize on their young talent.
Blaming Sandy would be wrong. We are only seeing half of the puzzle here. His hands have been tied since day one by the owners. They handed him a can opener and told him to go build a deck, and one is finally starting to take shape. Sandy has done a marvelous job under the circumstances and I’d easily give him an A-. The farm system is in great shape, the starting and relief pitching is in great shape, and the defense is in great shape. The hitting is the last piece of the puzzle, which CAN be solved via FA if they go that route, but they do have some hitters on the way.
The one big problem in the organization from top to bottom is the lack of power. There just isn’t any, but that can be said in many organizations as well. With our ballpark dimensions, that doesn’t have to be a dealbreaker either. There are other ways to win ballgames, and a solid lineup with no easy outs can can be just as dominant.
That said, he IS aware of the problem. Every team has some weaknesses, and if ours is the lack of a 40HR hitter, in that park, they will be fine.
far worse shape? as long as the team makes a few good moves going forward, they are in great shape… they are set up to have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball for the next 5 years, and the payroll is low with no long term bad contracts. as long as they add a couple of key pieces, they can be ready to be a major contender in the next few years. everything alderson has done so far has been looking to either build for the long term, or try to catch lightening (young, byrd, etc)
I think that has very little to do with Alderson, whose Mets, even after a large number of young players came up to the major league team, still have a top tier farm system.
Put it this way: if the Mets as currently structured were facing the sort of free agent market we’d have seen between 1996-2010, with the owners willingness to spend $$, they would be in great shape.
The problems are: terrible free agents, no money available to spend.
This is patently false, assuming you mean ‘going forward’ when you say ‘in far worse shape’. The reason the Mets were good under Phillips, Duquette, and Minaya is that there were little to no payroll restrictions. I’ve seen people say that money doesn’t buy championships, but it certainly makes you a better team. On the whole, the teams that spend more, win more. The Mets’ payroll is ~$60MM less right now than it was a few years ago. Imagine if they’d added even $30MM worth of players last offseason.
Alderson traded away some assets and has built the farm system without having to spend money. Once the Mets decide to add some payroll and add 2 or 3 decent FAs, they’ll be good. Heck, they’ll probably be over .500 next year even if they don’t add anyone. If Harvey had been playing this season, they’d be in contention for a wild card.
No one knows what they’ll be going forward. It’s nice to have people think your farm system is good, but as we’ve seen again and again, it means almost nothing. The Mets have had very highly-rated prospects and farm systems before, and almost nothing has come from them, other than some merely okay pitchers like Niese and Gee, and extremely ordinary position players. Seriously. Nothing. Not even the much-maligned Yankees have been that bad at producing major league talent over that period of time. Harvey was the only prospect who actually looked like he would be great, for about a minute before succumbing to the inevitable.
All we know is that under Sandy, the Mets have not finished over .500 even once. It’s been 5 years now, and the team is literally no different. Sure, the farm has some well-regarded players, but they haven’t yet translated in the field. We’re still waiting.
The crux of my post is that the reason the Mets were good under the other GMs is that the other GMs were allowed to spend. Sandy isn’t.
And I wonder how much you’re paying attention if you think that the Mets are not producing major league talent. deGrom has been fantastic. Wheeler has been pretty good (especially recently: 5-0, 2.01 ERA in his last 9 starts), Lagares is incredible, and half of their bullpen is young talent that has pitched great.
And Harvey didn’t ‘look like he would be great’, he legitimately was great. 2nd best pitcher in the NL behind Kershaw before his injury. The Mets will be fine next year, and could potentially be great if they sign a player or two. I am much more confident with Alderson at the helm than I was with any of the other three GMs you mentioned.
Your definition of incredible differs from the standard – defensively, Lagares is top notch. Offensively, not so much – the net result is a player who, judging by fWAR, would be in the middle of the pack amongst CFers if he had enough ABs to qualify.
The Mets are producing some talent, but not really all that much. The original poster is correct in the fact that just because a farm system gets strong ratings does not always equate to producing good major league talent. The Mets need to be willing to trade some of the minor league prospects they have – they will not all be good. Even the Yankees homegrown talent surge in the early-to-mid 90s produced duds like Ruben Rivera.
You’re ignoring the fact that Lagares has missed some games. Even using fWAR, Lagares would have around 6 WAR over 162 games. Sorry, but for a second year player, that is indeed incredible.
The OP is not correct. Again, Harvey was basically the 2nd best pitcher in baseball last year before getting injured. Both deGrom and Wheeler have been among the best pitchers in the NL over the last two months. Familia and Black have been great. Duda has handled 1B well. And they still have Syndergaard, Plawecki, Montero, Reynolds, Conforto, Herrera, Ynoa, Leathersich, etc on the way. They’re in great shape as far as young talent goes.
It doesn’t “mean nothing” to have a good farm. That is absurd. It means that people value your young players and think they’re good. That also translates to trade assets. The last time their farm was this highly regarded was in the early 80’s when folks were crying the same blues about Frank Cashen who was building a war chest of young talent for 4 years while the team on the field struggled. Their farm when Gee, Niese, etc. were there was universally ranked in the 20’s and their farm has produced better players than you give them credit for. Lagares is a monster CF, Murphy is a solid 2B, deGrom looks terrific, Duda is having a monster year, Familia looks like a beast in the pen. Where did those guys come from? Their farm has done it’s job for now and there’s more on the way, they will need to get FA right that’s been their biggest problem. Their main issue right now is at SS and LF, those two spots are dragging them down. (along with Wright having a truly terrible season). They have plenty of assets to fill those holes. Then they just need their horses (Harvey and Wright) to produce next year and they are very much in the mix.
You might want to double check on Gee again. He’s better than okay. Lagares is gonna win some GG’s in CF, while batting .275, Murphy leads the NL in hits, and Duda is in top 5 in NL in HR’s. Those all sound a little better than extremely ordinary returns to me.
from last winter’s FA picks, only Ellsbury has been worth it. everyone else has been average or below average. and the yanks and other teams are now stuck with those contracts for years to come
Not necessarily the point I’m making. And besides, had the Mets signed Ellsbury, then what I’m saying is correct.
But it’s not just that. It’s that the Mets haven’t even been in the conversation for guys like Jose Abreu when they easily could/should be.
only way Ellsbury was going to go to the Mets would be if they overpaid him by A LOT. and even then it would be a maybe.
the yanks are right at the tax threshold and spent almost $500 million last winter. McCann is overpaid, Tanaka on the DL, Beltran is batting worse than half the Mets and is not 100% healthy, Stephen Drew who was a Mets fan favorite last winter is batting around .200 this year. and looking at their schedule it’s a very real possibility the yankees will end the year under .500 this year
You’re focusing way too much on specifics. What I’m saying is that the Mets are not even in the conversation when it comes to FAs right now. Sure, if you use the worst examples of FA signing, it would have hurt the Mets. The Mets have two major needs: LF and SS. Abreu, Ellsbury, and Peralta were all options that weren’t even explored because the Mets aren’t spending.
Also, this isn’t about the Yankees at all, so I don’t know why you’re talking about them. McCann, Tanaka, and Beltran are not relevant to this discussion as SP and C are not Mets needs and Beltran would not have been able to play OF in Citi.
And Stephen Drew was never a Mets fan favorite. No one wanted him.
you sign an FA to fill in a whole or two that your farm system didn’t product. doing like the yankees and signing up most of your team with old guys making a lot of money is risking injury and mediocrity by paying people past their peak.
it’s not like in the past. these days teams are extending their top talent and these guys only go FA when they hit their peak and just in time to decline
if you want a good team, you build it with a farm so if one guy leaves or gets hurt you have someone to take his place. but this takes years
I’m not suggesting any of the things you’re saying. You brought up the Yankees for some reason. I never suggested that the Mets go out and sign tons of guys. I’m suggesting that they supplement their strong core with one or two FA signings. Please note that I said that they could have added only $30MM in payroll this past offseason. That’s one or two players.
The Mets need to spend money to show the fans they are serious again about putting a winning product on the field. They can do that via FA this winter with Hardy and Melky. Neither are the super flashy FA signings, but both fill dire needs. Melky can hit cleanup, which moves Duda down to 5th and TDA down to 6th. Hardy would hit 7th, and Lagares hits 8th which puts some speed in that spot. When he learns to steal some bases, that will make for a dangerous hitter in that spot who draws a lot of walks because he’s hitting 8th, ala Tejada.
Both of those signings would send a strong message to the fans that they are serious about competing this year, and sales would go up drastically.
They can trade Colon for a lousy prospect and Thor for Russell, with Gee starting in the rotation, or have Thor be the 5th man, and flip Gee for prospects.
All of these are VERY doable and if the Mets keep up with their losing ways, won’t cost their top draft pick either.
Jacoby Ellsbury – 7 year, $153MM contract – 2.5 fWAR
Jhonny Peralta – 4 year, $53MM contract – 4.4 fWAR
yeah, and there was mcCan, choo, stephen drew, beltran and a bunch of others who aren’t worth it
The Free Agent market is definitely not the place to build a team, no argument there. It’s just funny how that huge overpay for Peralta has suddenly escaped everyone’s mind as he has the 2nd highest WAR for all SS.
he’s overpaid? i thought the rate is $6.5 million per Win and he’s at 4.6 and paid $15 million.
That was sarcastic to the general tone at the time of the signing. It’s been a great deal for the Cardinals.
That is 100% wrong. They have a consensus top 5 farm system with a ton of really good young players at the upper levels of the minor leagues. He has them set up pretty sweet right now. They only have a few holes to fill (ss, lf) and a million assets to acquire those needs.
i definitely disagree.
Its called a rebuild, teams get worse when they rebuild.
I dunno. A lot of the I-Man Crew (Imus in the Morning) went to the Mets game yesterday. It looked liked they had a great time.
They showed a pic this morning of all those who attended.
Although, I will stipulate that Alderson hasn’t worked any miracles as Mets GM.
Collins is a good manager or at least I think he is.
It’s Alderson who needs to leave team.
Then the Mets can start anew.
yeah, spend money like the yankees for mediocrity and guys being on the DL
yes I agree,but the free agent market has been poor to say at the least. Most of the guys are high to mid upside guys who are aging.
I would like them to sign Hanley this offseason(if available) if they cannot complete a deal with the Cubs,but we all know that won’t happen.
That’s what the Mets want so it’s more likely? The Cubs have said they’re fine keeping all of them.
True, I’ll believe there’s a chance for a Cubs-Mets trade when I hear something from the Cubs’ side of things.
I applaud you for your skepticism.
your skeptism is well honored
To be fair, we haven’t really heard anything from either side – nothing but the media blowing something up that is unlikely to occur.
Right, but when would you hear something from either side? How often do you hear a GM say, “I’m trying to trade for player X”?
Doesn’t mean anything will happen, of course, and like all hypothetical deals — even the ones that make great sense on paper — it’s more likely they won’t get done (if even talked about at all).
If Russell is the guy the Mets are interested in, and willing to pony up legit arms for, in part b/c they think Baez is untouchable and aren’t that interested in Castro (if all that’s true) … then yeah, I’d say it would be more likely. That’s a relative assessment — doesn’t mean it’s likely overall that a trade gets done.
The Mets must see what they have in Matt Reynolds before they part with their pitching talent for a short stop. It would be senseless to do otherwise. He’s bored a hole through AA and AAA this year with some ridiculous numbers.
Given the injuries to Harvey, deGrom, Gee, Niese, Montero, Mejia & Matsuzaka – the old adage, “You can never have enough pitching” has never been more relevant.
Harvey, Wheeler, Niese, deGrom & Syndergaard looks nice on paper, but no one’s health is assured. Better to load up on pitching and find another team’s squeal point rather than unload young pitching at the risk of rendering the organization vulnerable to a shortfall due to injury.
Not saying we shouldn’t participate in a sensible trade, but recommending caution before pulling the trigger.
the most sensible post in this thread!! You can never have too much pitching, just ask Dr. James Andrews!!
Given all of the arm damage that appears to occur to Met Pitching, why would the Cubs want something that appears to have a higher chance of breaking down with an elbow injury in 1-2 seasons?
It’s not just Mets pitching, it’s everyone’s pitching.
Yeah, but I think it is safe to say the Mets are one of the few teams that seem to be losing more top flight pitchers to arm injuries than most.
Huh? They lost Harvey. He’ll be back next year. deGrom’s shoulder thing was cleared up within a few days, they put him on the DL though to curb his innings back so he can finish out the year without going over his innings limit. Mejia has a hernia thing going on, nothign to do with his arm, but it’s not letting him finish properly so they’ll probably shut him down. They lose a couple low level minor leaguers (I believe they were relief prospects anyway) to TJ surgery. Parnell had a neck thing, and then a TJ surgery, but a bullpen arm again.
Please elaborate on the “losing more top flight pitchers to arm injuries than most”.
1)Matt Harvey
2)Bobby Parnell (top flight?)
3)Jeremy Hefner (again…top flight?)
Oh I forgot about Hefner, I feel bad about that, but he was really just an innings eater and a complete afterthought.
Yeah probably should have said ‘injury prone’. My point should have been that the Mets do not seem to have good luck with pitchers or keeping them healthy
I really dont’ see how their luck has differed in any way as opposed to other organizations. Orioles lost Bundy, Marlins lost Fernandez, Mets lost Harvey. Just the nature of pitching, it’s why the name of the game is depth when it comes to pitching.
Braves are getting hit harder with pitching injuries than Mets!!
not true
Jose Fernandez, Mashiro Tanaka(out for 6 weeks), Jameson Tallion, Kris Medlen,Brandon Beachy, Adam Wainwright,Dylan Bundy and the list keeps going on.
The Cubs couldn’t get the pitching prospects they wanted for Samardizja, so they got Russell, who I think they can turn into 2 TOP minor league arms.
Most of my Cub peers aren’t with me on this line of thinking…they keep saying we are going to “buy” them (arms) in free agency. I don’t like rolling the dice on hoping we get one of the aces on the market, if they even make it onto the market.
However, Im not a GM, or FO baseball guy.
We shall see…..
Appreciate the level-headed view. Reading the Cubbies blogs, a lot of fans are unrealistic, taking the view that Russell and Baez are untouchable, and that if NY wants any SS, they can have Starlin, but in return for Harvey AND Wheeler. Difficult to engage in conversation with homers like that.
So, what’s it take fpr Sandy to pry Russell from Theo, in your view? Syndergaard and what else?
Sandy will wait until the Cubs price comes down or he wont trade with them, simple as that!!
Correct. But a key distinction is that the Cubs’ price is not the same thing as what we see on Bleed Cubbie Blue.
Thanks Matlack- I’d LOVE to hang onto all these prize prospects and see who turns out, but that’s, just like you said…unrealistic.
There is no promise that we will land one of the aces that may or may not be on the market. Plus, they’re all 30 or older!
Syndergard and Montero would start it for me (and that’s for Russell)
I wouldn’t do that trade if I was Sandy but we will see what happens in the offseason I guess
I was just watching a highlight of Russell crushing one in AA from last night. He is a special player, but you never know who can hand;e the bigs. I for one think Baez wont be able to get his K rate down enough to make it. However, again, I’m no scout or FO guy.
I did like what I saw from Montero. Give him few years experience and he might be something solid.
looking at Russels minor league stats, they don’t jump out at me at all
At a glance, that’s what I was thinking. However, it seems as though since he is so young, those numbers are supposedly out of this world..?
I hear you, Steve….we are in a similar position with regard to all the pitching, and we’ve got more arms percolating up from the lower levels. It’s an organizational strength, and, despite the argument that we should hoard them all, a dalliance with the Cubbies could help both teams.
Syndergaard’s peripherals are better than his headline numbers, and he can likely get big league hitters out right now. I fully expect him to be a TOR guy, and possibly a dominant ace, with a premiere after Super 2 next season. He’s young. The organization is very high on Montero-he’s been a modest disappointment in the bigs this year so far, as his calling card is his plus command, which abandoned him in his first tour of duty. The motion is free and easy, which is good, as he’s not a big-framed guy, but if he continues to spot the fastball at the knees and pitch to both sides of the plate with the slider and cambio, he’s going to be a bonafide rotation piece for a big league team next year.
I’d hate to lose those two, but it’s fair for a player of Russell’s caliber. I like him a lot.
If we can get one of the TOR arms via free agency, add Syndergard, Montero, and have Arrieta pitch like he has been, then we are set.
Bring up Bryant and Soler, add a bench piece or two and I like that team….at least on paper.
When Beane told us we just got the next Barry Larkin, I kinda squealed a little…..
Yes, that’s the comp being thrown around, and it’s exciting…it’s funny reading the Cubs fans viewpoints, because I feel that we’re kindred spirits as fans of losing franchises. A lot of Mets fans are just as adamant that we shouldn’t part with any of our pitching, but when your team has a wRC+ of 88, it’s a luxury we cannot afford. If Harvey is close to his old self next year, Wright returns to his norm, and our bullpen continues to take shape, the club is 2 good starting players(SS and COF) away from contention, in my view.
Each team would benefit if they can work out a trade, but some of the comments from the fans are simply ludicrous.
I agree that we cant hoard all of our pitching prospects but according to some unrealistic Cubs fans, we would have to trade a boatload of pitching prospects for Castro or one of the prospects(Baez, Russel). None of their hitters are worth that price except for Kris Bryant!!
I think it’s a moot point with Castro-the club likely won’t be interested given his lack of plate discipline, shoddy defense, and mental lapses. Admittedly, he’s been a fine offensive player this season, but in 2013, the guy made over 500 outs! and he wasn’t hurt, to my knowledge anyway. Not the type of franchise-altering talent you trade cost-controlled young pitchers with TOR stuff for, in my view. I do think that Russell, and to a slightly lesser extent, Baez, are worth the price, and that it’s time for SA to make an equitable trade where each team benefits.
We see this happen a lot with fans of teams with a good farm system; they fall in love with every prospect and lose their ability to reason. Some Mets fans are now doing this with our young pitching, when it is obvious that we need to acquire 2 position players, and that’s while hoping Wright reverts to form in 2015.
I agree to some extent with you but im not giving up multiple top pitching prospects for Russel or Baez. Baez has plus power but his minor league stats and his small major league sample suggests he will be a high strikeout- no walk hitter. Keith said the other night on SNY that Baez is no lock to be an everyday major leaguer with that approach to hitting. Syndergaard plus Montero for Russel would be as far as I would go. period….in Sandy I trust….even then im very hesitant to give up Noah yet. We have no idea what will happen with Harvey, DeGrom or Wheeler as far as injuries next year
Fair points. I’d do Thor and Montero for russell, but I won’t be happy about it; that’s a telltale sign it’s a fair trade. Baez has incredible power. Watching him so far, he’s got some flash. It won’t surprise me a bit if he refines his approach as he matures. Mixed reports on whether he can play short, but the cause is not lost, from what I’ve read. he’s got the arm for it.
You are right, you have to give up top talent to get top talent. Nobody really knows how any of these prospects will pan out but I do trust Sandy and co. will make the right decisions for this team’s long term future. Some people say that Noah has a higher ceiling than even Harvey has and equal control. He just has to command his secondary pitches before he makes the majors
Oh, I am very confident in syndergaard, and think he’d be a good back end starter right now. I expect him to be a 1 or 2 for a first division club. But I also expect Russell to be the Real McCoy, and, as you said, you have to give to get.
Fortunately, we have Harvey and Wheeler, who I think may be another Smoltz, to front the rotation for a few years.
Sandy’s made a few tactical errors, but on balance, I think he’s done a very good job which won’t be appreciated by a lot of the fans until the winning starts.
Baez has incredible power I agree, but his defensive game has hurt him. Many people don’t know if he will be able to play ss,or not.
It’s true that there’s doubt. I don’t know enough about the Cubs organization to know if moving him off short was due to aptitude, or because Castro was the SS for now. He apparently has the arm for short, from what I’ve read.
I completely agree with you Wright. That is as far as I would go for Russell. The offer I made before was my final offer,but not neccesarily the offer I wanted to do.
Mets fans are doing it now too. They are falling in love with their farm system,and thinking of how they can have the best rotation since the 90s Braves.
exactly some Cubs fans overvalue their players.
nobody would trade you Harvey+Wheeler for Castro get real.
Castro has a team friendly contract I completely agree, but if the Cubs fans think there landing a teams 2 best pitchers for him teams will just say forget it.
The fact of the matter is that the cubs don’t have to be reasonable. They have ALL the leverage.
We’re talking about a 3x all star (who’s better than ever this year btw) who is on a very nice contract for another 5 years (into his prime).
For those who say Castro isn’t one of the best, they obviously aren’t looking at his stats. He has been one of the best this year.
The only ss who’s been clearly better is Tulo (who’s always injured anyways).
The asking price WILL include Harvey+ because the cubs have no reason to trade Castro or any ss really. They can always move the players over.
I think that Harvey + Wheeler for Castro + lower prospect is realistic. (in the sense that that’s what it would take for the mets to pry him lose)
all of the leverage? have fun with the pitching you guys have. Unless you sign Lester,or Scherzer.
I don’t mean to be rude but Mets’ strategy of rebuilding compared to Cubs’ is exactly why the Cubs will be a much better team than the Mets in the near future. The Cubs understand that pitching is inherently unstable (look at your pitchers and tell me that’s not true) and decided to stack up on position player talent.
The Cubs trade for reclamation projects (which are cheap) and turn them into respectable pitchers. (especially Arrieta)
So yes, considering that we’re talking about trading Castro for players that could get injured/regress much easier than him (which isn’t gonna happen unless the cubs are blown away), the Cubs DO have all the leverage.
And judging by some articles floating on the internet, Lester and the Cubs is a strong possibility.
A rotation of 1. Lester 2. Arrieta 3. Turner 4. Hendricks 5. Doubront/Wada/etc. is not bad at all. (although Turner is a big stretch atm)
If Harvey and Syndergaard had more of an injury-free track record, it would be a different story. But they don’t.
Pitchers are very unstable, that’s why it’s all about depth, and having lots of it, which the Mets do. This trade deadline was more evidence that teams will always need pitching, especially playoff ones. I wouldn’t worry about arguing which way is better to rebuild, fact of the matter is you’ll need both, and pitching being inherently more risky just means it requires more depth, which again, the Mets have.
Syndergaard doesn’t have an injury track record, some discomfort earlier in the year, he was fine, and getting into a freak collision that hurt his non pitching shoulder are not injury histories. Harvey had his TJ, if he recovers to old form we don’t know, but he’ll be there next year.
I think we’re getting a bit off topic. I agree with you that the more pitching the better.
My point was that if you want to trade for a premier position player, you will have to offer surplus much of the time because pitchers are inherently more unstable.
The early 2000s Cubs built with pitchers and they didn’t get very far outside of one season. (kerry wood, mark prior, etc.)
His play and contract situation also further strengthen the return.
And what Syndergaard had oftentimes leads to TJS.
and the 90s Braves built around pitching, and won 15 straight division titles.
Smoltz
Maddux
Glavine
Millwood
Harvey
Wheeler
Syndergaard
Degrom
Montero/Matz/Gee/Niese
There is a lot more depth there. In case that there is injury.
in your case that is not neccesarily always true. Your just lucky that Bryant’s injury isn’t serious. That would have been a major damper.
And your counting if you get Lester. There are at least 10 teams in the hunt for him
Yankees
Red Sox
A’s
Dodgers
Giants
Cubs
Mariners
Angels
Cardinals
Tigers
Pirates(can’t count them out)
Nationals(why not, maybe put them over the top)
I agree with you. You can never have too many pitchers. However, that proves my point. It’s because of the fact that pitchers get injured much more often than position players that the Cubs have leverage.
The cubs don’t need to trade Castro because he’s been great is also considered leverage. So if a team comes along and offers the Cubs pitchers, they have to throw in lots of surplus to counter the injury risk and actually make the Cubs want to move Castro.
If we don’t get Lester, then there’s something to talk about. As I (and probably the Cubs) stand, Lester is being factored into next year’s plans.
Lester is being factored into a lot of team’s plans.
I’m sure the Red Sox have a plan to re-sign Lester, and essentially get Cespedes for free.
I’m sure the Yankees have a plan to sign Lester, and give depth to a shaky rotation behind Tanaka.
The Dodgers probably have that planned out too ,so that way they don’t have to give up the prospects to land Hamels.
bottom line is you don’t factor the free agency market to build a team. That is a terrible idea.
pitching wins – always has, always will.
not in this day and age.
Really? Name any franchise in recent history that has won without starting pitching.
Obviously you need pitching to win the World Series. However, in this offense-depressed era, having a solid staff and an elite offense will get you father than an elite staff and solid offense.
Giants disagree.
I said farther. Farther in this case means how many times out of 10 will one beat the other? I would go with offense because it’s more reliable.
Unless you work in the front office, you’re not in a position to state what the “fact of the matter” is.
Cubs fans are prospect-drunk, as Toronto fans were a few seasons ago, and we’ve seen the movie before. Couple winters ago, any suggestion that Sandy could get d’Arnaud was met in the blogs with howls of derision. The overconfident replies were that the Mets would be lucky to get Arencibia or Gose for a 38 year old novelty pitcher. Well, guess what? Alderson and Anthopoulos weren’t being guided on their valuations by commenters on blogs. Sandy ended up pulling the best catching prospect, one of the best pitching prospects, and a toolshed lottery pick in Becerra for RA Dickey. If you need more examples, he pulled Zack Wheeler, currently a rotation fixture with Ace upside, for 2 months of a Beltran rental. Still not convinced? Ok, 2 months of a resurgent Byrd last Summer in return for Black, an effective bullpen piece, and Dilson Herrera, climbing the prospect rankings as the Mets 2B of the future.
In any case, I doubt he’s gunning for Castro anyway, as the club is adamant about their hitting philosophy. So, it’s moot, but your proposals, in my opinion, are quite detached from reality.
They got Russell because he was the best prospect available. Buxton, Correa, and Lindor were the only ones better then him.
Right. The Cubs couldn’t get the pitching they wanted (I think they were asking Baltimore for Gausman and Bundy, and asking Toronto for all their top 3 ) so they grabbed Russell.
I still think they will turn Russell into pitching, but again, I am not a pro at this.
I just like the direction they are headed.
they probably will turn Russel into pitching prospects or a proven starter but not for Syndergaard and Wheeler. that is laughable
As much as the NY media hopes and hypes this potential trade positions for these 2 clubs, I am sure it wont happen without a over pay on the mets part. The cubs have no need to trade one of the very best shortstops in the majors for any less that the top 2 or 3 prospects and more pieces from the mets. As I see it the cubs prospects are highly rated and with plenty to back that assessment up with and the mets are not that well off even Noah S has his question marks. I can in no way ever see the cubs trading Baez despite how much NY covents him. Russell is close to the same position within that organization and will be a cub when he is MLB ready. I dont even see a trade for castro happening within the next year or until russell is ready to take the position from castro and that will be tough to do despite how people are down on him because of his production from last year. I can see a position change to LF for castro when russell is ready for SS in september 2015.
Do you really think Castro is one of the best shortstops in the majors? Because he’s not.
Care to elaborate who is leaps and bounds ahead of him then? And I do not mean by name recocgnition, but by stats proving that he is not one of the best in the majors?
3/4th a season of Tulo is probably better than Castro but yeah he’s probably top 5 in the league. I can see an argument for top 3 but I’d like to see another solid season from him. If the power continues to develop I could see him slot in at #2 behind Tulo.
I think just about everyone would agree that Tulo (when healthy) is the consensus number 1 ss. That wasn’t the question though. He was questioning Castro being one of the best which you did mention in your post. I am just curious to see what his reasons are for him not being one of the best
if Castro is not one of the best shortstops, then why are the Mets after him ?
because he is a good player, at a premium position,and low cost.
we are after one of the three shortstops because any of them would be an upgrade on Flores or Tejada. Sandy is smart and wont overpay anyways. he will wait until the Cubs demands are realistic
Realistic? The Cubs have no problem with having 3 infielders. Sure it’s a slight overpay,but your getting a young cost controllable player at a premium postion. Plus he is a 2x all star. My only concern his last season(2013). Other then that the trade looks ok.
Look, Sandy is very patient and that is how he acquired Wheeler, Noah, DArnaud etc, in the first place. Relax and enjoy the show in the offseason. we aren’t going anywhere this season anyway
oh I know. I’m not saying do it now.
First off he is a 3 time all star, thanks to this year.
Second the 2013 season was a lost for castro because he couldnt be himself. The front office and Dale Sveum had him change his approach at the plate. They had a vision of batters 1-8 going deap in counts and tiring the pitcher out.
But if castro can be a free swinger and bat around .300 and get on base then the other 7 batters in the line up can tire the pitcher out. They realized that and yet Castro be Castro and you see the results so far.
Castro is a nice little shortstop but not worth a #1 or #2 starter!!
We don’t know for sure, of course, but the rumors are they don’t like Castro, but LOVE Russell and Baez.
I think that I have read that somewhere every day for at least 3 days now.
It would be consistent with everything this FO believes in. Alderson has been quoted telling minor leaguers in the system that if they aren’t right with the organziation’s hitting approach, they’ll be wearing a different uniform. It would surprise me if if they pursued Castro in a trade. They make exceptions for players with poor discipline, such as Byrd, but only with scrap heap signings or young cost controlled guys, and not with the financial commitment that Castro would demand.
Sandy will push hard for Russell, and if he’s unsuccessful, will look elsewhere to upgrade the SS position, in my opinion.
like 6 years and around 52 million the exact number that is left on his contract after this year.
Oh my god what a albatross of a contract. 8.5 million a year for a allstar short stop. Who does this Starlin Castro think that he is Troy Tulo, Jeter, Nomar or ,Arod? The entire mets major league team has poor results and dicipline so I am not sure why you are saying Castro has the same problem. It sounds like to me he would fit right in with their baseball culture and maybe help them a little more than you are letting on.
First, I don’t blame you for not knowing this, but 52MM is HUGE for NY’s NL team since Madoff. Every nickel is counted here.
Second, your statement is incorrect; the only Mets regular with even modest discipline issues is Juan Lagares, and it is tolerated because he plays CF like Paul Blair did. Even Murphy has been more selective this year. The Mets problem is lack of enough good offensive ballplayers on the big club. Their ISO is atrocious, and the woes are highlighted because Wright is in the midst of the worst year of his career.
In the abstract, Castro would help, I agree, but the Mets as a franchise are at critical juncture. The 2 moves that are required this winter could make them contenders or cause things to unravel if they aren’t right. A young, cost-controlled SS with plus defense and a profile like larkin’s, and a corner OF who can provide a 115-120 wRC+ next year will elevate the club to the first division.
24 years old and a 3 time allstar ………………You do the math …………….He is in the top 5 for sure in all of baseball. But keep degrading his skills here with the hopes that Hoyer or Epstein read your words and trade him for a old Bartolo Colon because he is so mediocre.
I didn’t say anything about Bartolo Colon, and no I’m not hoping that Hoyer or Epstein will read this because I don’t even want Castro. He’s a mediocre defender, makes too many mental mistakes, and has a low OBP. While a 110 OPS+ is nice for a shortstop, when he’s a mediocre defender and will cost the farm it’s not even close to being worth it. 3 time all star doesn’t mean anything since fans overvalue batting average. I believe that Sandy is smart enough to know that Castro is not worth 2 top flight prospects. It was also just 1 year ago that he hit an abysmal .245/.284/.347. I’d rather take my chances with a free agent like JJ Hardy, who at least will provide elite defense.
They better start washing cars delivering papers and selling magazines so they can afford hardy, then good luck with him.I can not see the mets affording basically anything more in payroll with their current revenue stream anyway. This trade would never happen without a overpay by the mets and I hope that the cubs wouldn’t trade him anyway.
Been saying for quite awhile that the Mets and Cubs could make good trade partners.
Mets please stop.
I agree. The Cubs would demand surplus value for their players (as they don’t have to deal and can easily make room for everyone with how bad the MLB roster is) and Alderson is notorious for not giving up surplus value in trades. I don’t see a deal happening.
It’s a deal that makes sense on the surface but, after looking at the players, the GMs, the organizational philosophies ,and rebuilding trajectories, it doesn’t make sense at all.
thank God Sandy doesn’t overpay like our previous GM’s or we would be back to square one again
I wonder if the Mets could entice the Cubs with a trade built around d’Arnaud? I’d rather not try and attain more young unproven bats but go after established “vets” to start filling the roster.
How about Travis d’Arnaud, Vic Black and Raphael Montero and for Starlin Castro?
Then we attempt to trade Johnathan Niese and something(s) else for Cespedes?
Sign Russell Martin in the offseason to work with our staff and let Recker stay the back-up till mid season when we call up K. Plawecki. I’d play Plawecki at C/1st base in AAA just for some versatility. Sign Murph to extension.
Rotation= Wheeler/deGrom/Gee/Harvey/Colon (Syndergaard and Matz + others in the wings)
LU= Castro/Grandy/Wright/Cespedes/Duda/Murphy/Martin/Lagares
BP= Familia/Mejia/Parnell/Edgin/Torres + others
Bench= Recker/Campbell/Reynolds/MDD or Kirk/ others
Why would the Cubs make that trade? They need pitching. If Castro is being traded, it will either be Wheeler, Syndergaard, or Harvey. I don’t see the Mets including either of those in a trade, so chances of that happening are slim to none
lol dream on, the Cubs aren’t getting Wheeler or Harvey for Castro!! Castro is a good young shortstop but he is nowhere near worth Harvey or Wheeler!!
Probably not Harvey but Wheeler is discussable. He is a very good and promising pitcher with a very lively fastball but in a much shorter time deGrom has shown he is a better PITCHER. I’d not shy away from Wheeler and a secondary prospect for Castro if they asked.
ok I could live with that
How about Wheeler, MDD and either Leathersitch or Mazzoni and i’d part with both if it was a deal breaker for Starlin Castro? I’m not giving up Wheeler and any of my other top arms.
Then we can try to trade Niese or Gee with Montero, Plawecki, Flores and maybe a lower prospect for Bautista?
Sign Murph to an extension and sign one or two arms on one year or minor league deals for insurance. Sign a better back-up catcher to mentor d’Arnaud.
Cubs wont go for that deal but I agree we should be dealing Gee and Niese once Harvey returns to form, not until we know for sure he is 100%.
trade 5 guys for one player?
why not just buy the whole team one way tickets to Chicago?
and trade 5 guys for a player who we will control for only 1 more year? i’m sure team owners are knocking down your door to make you GM
Niese for Castro I would do but the Cubs might not
doubt the cubs will trade a guy they control for 5 more years for a pitcher who goes FA in a year or two
like I said below, forget about dealing with the Cubs!!
Mets have 2 team friendly options for 2017 and 2018. Four more years of control at $37mm, which is cheap for a good#3. there is moderate injury risk, though, which needs to be considered.
yes, Cubs would not.
really I would sooner trade Noah then Wheeler.
Wheeler in his last 5 starts 5-0 1.96 era
yep, and Noah has a “hard” throw. lots of guys with throws like his end up with TJ. like Harvey.
if the mets got rid of him it probably wouldn’t hurt the team
Okay. I’m not against trading an unproven EVER. So sign me up.
there is not a chance in hell sandy trades wheeler for castro.
Please read the whole comment. I said that most likely wont happen. Same thing goes for the guy above me who thinks the Cubs will trade Castro for a weak deal like that. Cubs have all the leverage here so it will take a big haul to get him.
Harvey has 1 year of dominance and then has TJ. Wheeler has looked good this year. Castro has had exactly 1 bad year and no player has more hits than him since he came up. I dont know how you think 1 year success at best is worth way more than 3 years success.
because as long as Harvey returns to form, I take an ace #1 starter over Castro anyday of the week. im not sold on Castro either. he doesn’t fit the Mets philosophy of high OBP, drawing lots of walks
Then you guys don’t want Castro, its that simple. You aren’t getting him at a discount because he isn’t exactly the type of player that fits your philosophy. 24 year old shortstops approaching 20 home run power don’t grow on trees. There is a lot of value there.
keep him then, Sandy is very patient and will seek out a reasonable trade or nothing will happen!!
I understand that, but they need a run producer at ss,and also Castro can bat leadoff. This is the biggest issue for the mets, and to all of you people who say “Lagares can bat leadoff”. I don’t think he is suited for that,because he is not a big baserunning threat. Castro is better suited in that department.
To be honest I would rather skip Castro,and sign Hanley. Yes he is a injury risk(just like Reyes),but he can steal, and hit for some power,also allowing us to keep our prospects to deal for a middle of the order bat.
Hanley is wayyy overpaid. why do we need a run producer at ss?? Historically the Mets best teams had mediocre hitting, good fielding shortstops. We only notice Tejada’s lack of offense because our run producers aren’t producing runs!! We need to upgrade a few positions not just shortstop
Mets currently rank 23rd in baseball with team OBP of .301. That’s one hell of a philosophy.
Ya, instead Castro’s just good at baseball.
he is good offensively, just not defensively. plus he doesn’t walk enough or have an acceptable OBP.
Castro is a 3 war player who plays the most premium position in the game. The Cubs don’t need to deal one of their infielders, and that is what people don’t get.
It will take Wheeler,or Syndergaard+ to get them to trade one of Russel,Baez,or Castro
when you are a GM, you don’t just give players that the other team demands from you. Its a negotiation until there is an agreement or until they feel they cant come to an agreement on players. simple concept
You’re kidding right? It would take Wheeler AND Syndergaard. Look at what the Cubs got on a rental of Hammel and Samardzija. Two top prospects. They’re not going to trade Castro (a young MLB shortstop) with defensive and offensive value with a team friendly MULTIPLE YEAR deal for no one. Oh Mets fans.
they got 1 elite prospect,and a first round draft pick. You want combat Look at the Upton deal.
adding in deals done in the offseason generally net less then what deals done near the deadline do.
LOL. The fact that you think Castro is worth Wheeler and Syndergaard is laughable. Syndergaard is a top 5 RHP prospect in all of baseball and has pitched much better lately and has great stuff. Wheeler, who also has great stuff, is a PROVEN MLB starter who sits at 96 with a nasty slider and curveball and has a 2.02 ERA since June 16th. The Cubs can keep Castro if they think he’s worth those two pitchers. What a joke.
I agree which is why i adjusted my thoughts.
d’Arnaud is good at framing pitches, unlike the last catcher we had
no way the mets trade him
I’ve heard that all before. He is also really good a passed balls to the back wall and letting runners steal bases. Look, i’m all for allowing the kid to grow and become a very good catcher/hitter so i wouldn’t trade him unless we were going to sign Russell Martin who is a better CATCHER than d’Arnaud.
To the points made about the Cubs not making that deal. Folks you are more than likely correct so i’ve switched my thinking.
Lets sign Murph to extension and sign Lowrie or Hardy for SS while attempting to build a package for Bautista or Cespedes to play RF.
Niese, even with the injury woes, would be a good starting point being that he is still youngish with a favorable contract and LH.
Bautista is the type of hitter SA loves so…
Niese, Montero, Plawecki, Flores(2B/3B) and MDD(CF) for Bautista and Kawesaki? Too little? Too Little? Not even worth discussing?
forget dealing with the Cubs and keep our young pitching!! pitching and defense wins championships
You need some level of production
pirates got to the divisional series last year with the worst run production in MLB
What stat are you using to determine “run production”? Because if you’re going by Runs Scored, they didn’t even have the fewest RS in their division, let alone the entire MLB.
I would also take Encarnarcion. He has played outfield before,but I don’t think that the jays will deal him.
I agree with you that I would keep Plawecki over D’Arnaud….Travis has no throwing arm and has given up way too many passed balls. I have no faith that he will ever develop into what he was projected to be. Plawecki is an unknown but I get the feeling that he will be a better major leaguer in the long run.
Am I crazy for not wanting any part of this deal from the Mets standpoint? There are some quality free agent SS coming up, we have some potential future SS in the farm, get a free agent to buy time until those guys are ready.
Why give up young assets when you could just explore free agency? I want 100% proven commodities at this point, no more prospects. We’ve been going the prospect route for 4 years (rightfully so). Now is the time to make major league moves.
As a Cubs fan I’m not in a hurry to make any trade. We’ve heard the narrative about how much the Cubs need pitching for years. Meanwhile, we’ve managed to float middle of the pack in pitching picking up other team’s discards, but rank bottom four in offense.
Offense is down around the league for years; we’re in a new era of the pitcher. I’d rather develop good hitters. To the degree that we need pitching, we can afford to buy it on the free agent market.
Most likely what in my outside opinion will happen is that the Cubbies will sign Lester in the offseason and another reclamation project and go with that. If they decide at the trade deadline to make a deal Castro could go then.
Lester/Arrieta/Wood is a pretty good 1/2/3 with
Jackson/Hendricks/Wata plus whomever you grab in the offseason fighting for the 4 and 5 spots.
So i say, as a Mets fan, don’t be too greedy and trade us Castro for Wheeler straight up because your rotation looks wayyy better with (Lester?)Wheeler/Arrieta/Wood/Jackson/hendricks/Wata and our lineup looks better with
Granderson/Wright/Murphy/??????(RF)/Duda/Castro(SS)/d’Arnaud/Lagares
its hard to imagine the mets trading wheeler for castro. castro is a good, young player but not worth what many believe will be an ace as soon as next season.
“Dont be greedy” is always a solid argument:p
Plus, Im all on-board with the Lester and another reclamation project (maybe J. Johnson?).
As such, (and as a Cubs fan), Jed/Theo be all kinds of greedy!
I get what you’re saying. I was only joking around. Frankly as a Mets fan i kinda want to be greedy also.
We will trade Edlose Jackson for a jar of pine tar.
you need both to win.
These NY trade proposals for Starlin Castro are so funny.
Time to move on.
Noah Syndergaard+Gnoa for Starlin Castro straight up
The Mets are one or two pieces away from contending… so long as those pieces are ‘in their prime’ Babe Ruth and Sandy Koufax.
I think Stan Musial,and Tom Seaver will work too.
Mets are a few pieces and a lot of money they don’t have from contending.
Cubs have no reason to move any of those shortstops. We can just buy pitching. As soon as Rickets remembers he owns the Cubs and not the Marlins, we can build a scary rotation.
Scott, I completely agree we SHOULD buy the pitching. I ask you, however, what if the product you are wanting to buy isn’t there? We are competing with MULTIPLE teams for these free agents, that arent even available yet?
Answer this… Would you give Lester 8 years and 185 million?
and what happens if the Cubs don’t land either Scherzer,or Lester. Your up against a billion teams
Yankees
Red Sox
A’s
Dodgers
Tigers
Angels
Mariners
Cardinals
Giants
Pirates(hell I will even throw them in here)
Rangers(its possible)
Nationals(to put them over the top)
Cubs
have fun!!
Addison Russell for Noah Syndergaard with a few pieces going in both directions fills both teams needs with 2 elite prospects close to the majors that can help almost immediatley. Starlin Castro is absurdly overrated by cubs fans and is a 3 win player according to fangraphs which is not a top 3 player at any position. J.J Hardy and Erick Aybar both rank ahead of castro and are FA. Castro for Wheeler is silly talk
I agree whole heartedly.
Then politely ask your new york mets reporters to stop suggesting this trade of castro to the mets in their articles. It is even more laughable that the mets fans think that they could get a ultra top prospect like Russell or Baez for just a Snydergard and nothing else. Keep dreaming mets fans I am wondering if the Wilpons can even cover payroll next year much less add a multiple time allstar quality glove and bat in Castro to there already cash poor franchise.
Cubs fans seem to think Syndergaard is not that good of a prospect. Going into the year he was unanimously a top 5 pitching prospect in baseball. Those type of prospects don’t get traded. He was also unanimously a top 20 prospect in baseball. The fact that you say Syndergaard doesnt even start a discussion for Russell is laughable
Russell is the #7 rated prospect in all of baseball not #7 at SS but in all of baseball every position included. Snydergaard is a intriguing player with tons of potential and could start the conversation and be followed by Degrom ,wheeler or harvey if they want Castro if they wanted Russell it would take even more pieces from the mets. But how did the mets get him ….. he was TRADED by the Jays so to say that a top 5 pitcher can not be had via trades is laughable. To say Noah S is worth a #7 prospect when Noah is a maybe the #20 prospect even before his issues this year dropped him down the list is even more funny. I have laughed at these trades nonsense long enough. Thanks for the hard laughs at these trade proposals here from some of you people. Thank You.
Syndergaard + another solid prospect or 2, ya that can work. But Syndergaard AND Wheeler or DeGrom? Are you serious. You clearly are overrating your players if you think youre getting 2 of those 3 for Starlin Castro. Those are potential TOR starters, thats not happening for Castro who is a solid player on a nice deal, but thats all he is, nothing special. Noah & Wheeler is a solid starting package for Giancarlo Stanton.
If they would be struggling to afford Castro what would make you think that they could afford a Stanton and a probable 25 mil plus per yr contract that he will demand for probably 8+ years. I know that you didn’t say that they would be making a play for Stanton just that would be a good starting point. I am not a cubs fan and they are not my team or players. I prefer the Cardinals if you must know sir. I am however a big fan of baseball and all of the young talent coming up in the 30 pipelines around the MLB. I am intrigued by the pure position player hitters coming up the cubs pipeline. Who wouldnt want a Kris Bryant Addison Russell Javier Baez Anthony Rizzo Kyle Schwarber infield. Who wouldnt want a Jorge Soler Albert Almora & McKinney outfield. With some worthwhile young back up players like alcantara sczur or valbuena or some other project back up bench help in the form of a Olt Lake or a project pitcher like Turner (who I fear will turn out as a Arrieta type pitcher).
I point all of this out to say if all of these players did pan out and I still have my doubts on a few of them that the cubs will make the yankees jealous and If I was a ace pitcher I would gladly take a discount to be the ace of the staff that finally brought chicago world series trophy. I cant imagine a pitcher that wouldn’t want to be a part of that history in the making. The cubs are not desperate for the time being they have Arrieta Turner Wood Hendrics (gulp) Jackson Wada and others under team control for atleast 3 years. 1 good #1 pitcher and maybe a very good #2 type pitcher and the cubs can be much more than the joke of baseball. Something kind of similar happened to the Nats a few years back and then they were the best but couldn’t sustain their sucess. The cubs wont have that problem IMHO. As a Cardinals fan this hurts to say.
I think the Cubs want Schwarber to play LF rather than catch. Also, the Nats are still a good team, they’ve just dealt with injuries. And that rotation doesn’t really sound all that special, to be honest. I’m curious as to what you think the Mets rotation is going to be like with Harvey, Wheeler, deGrom and Syndergaard then.
That rotation should be very formidable.
lol, some Cubs fans….UNREALISTIC
Syndergaard for Russell is a perfectly reasonable place to start, i’ll give you that. But given Syndergaard’s recent injury and performance issues, Russell is the more valuable of the two, so the Mets would have to sweeten the deal a little bit to mitigate the risks that come with Syndergaard.
Thats what i was saying. Maybe one prospect going to the cubs and one going to the mets where the prospect the cubs get is of higher value
I see what your saying now guy.
I still don’t see anyone other than Castro heading to NY for snydergaard and one of your other top 3 arms on the staff (wheeler harvey or degrom(sp)) would be close to getting you a star shortstop like starlin.
Hes not a star shortstop though. A 3 win player is a solid regular, not a star. J.J Hardy and Erick Aybar are ranked ahead of Castro right now and are free agents after the year…
He is however at least a 3 war player as you say and a war is worth approximately 6 mil per war then he is making the club almost 10 mil above his reasonable contract yearly and has not hit his prime for about 4 years from now when he may be a 5 or 6 war player. I would much rather have a Castro rather than a Hardy or a Aybar because of their cost per year and because the defense is comparable to Castro. I have never seen a 200 hit year out of either of your higher rated SS’s either.
How do you say the defense is similar. LOL you are clearly a misinformed fan that doesn’t understand the value of players. Hardy and Aybar have been 2 of the best defensivd shortstops in the league the last few years, Castro’s defense is questionable at best.
Aybar is not better than Castro. Not even close
Hes wayyyy better defensively and ranks as one of the best defensive shortstops in baseball which is a huge part of the value of a shortstop. Castro is better offensively but aybar is way better defensively. Either way would you rather trade your top pitching prospect for castro or just sign aybar when they give you similar value to your team just in different areas
Cubs are in no rush to trade any of their prospects now.
Chicago media have no stories about trading Castro or Baez or Russell.
Only trade proposals come from NY Media and the Mets fans.
Theo & Jed do not discuss trade proposals with Mets fans or NY reporters.
Addison Russell is in AA. Mets need him to start on the MLB and produce as of April Please explain why this make sense more than the AZ SS’s ho have more experience? Mets trade for a AA player and fans are told to wait to July, there will be a bigger riot than there already is. He would have to come right in and start with no AAA stint in a very pressure packed situation in Queens. Sounds like a bust to me.
Rest assured, the Mets will disappoint. Alderson is incapable of building a quality major league lineup.
a message to Cubs fans. You are overrating your prospects. Russell is a top 10 prospect I agree,and this is why I can see starting a deal around syndergaard.
I see Syndergaard+Matz/Montero+ some low level prospect.
That is it. If you don’t like it, don’t make trades its that simple. There are tons of players available the Mets could trade,or sign.
Asdrubal Cabrera, J.J Hardy, Hanley Ramirez,(Free agents),Drew
Trade Andrus,Profar, Zobrist(if he takes the buyout)(if not sign him in FA).
The Mets have SS prospects deep in the farm. Cechinni,and Rosario.