TODAY: It may yet take a few weeks or months for the MLB players involved to be publicly disclosed, but Quinn says (Twitter links) it appears at least a few “fairly significant” but not “major” names could be linked to PEDs.
YESTERDAY: If you haven’t seen the news, a series of arrests were made today of figures involved in operating the Biogenesis clinic and facilitating its distribution of PEDs (which is alleged to include not only professional athletes, but also high school athletes in the Miami area). Among the arrested parties were Biogenesis founder Tony Bosch (who surrendered to the DEA on charges of conspiracy to distribute anabolic steroids) and the cousin of Alex Rodriguez — Yuri Sucart. USA Today’s Bob Nightengale adds that former ACES consultant Juan Carlos Nunez — who was behind Melky Cabrera’s web site scandal –was also arrested. Thirteen MLB players were suspended last year, on today’s exact date, for using or possessing PEDs distributed by the Biogenesis clinic.
The federal investigation that brought about those arrests have “revealed previously unnamed MLB players,” ESPN.com’s T.J. Quinn reports on Twitter, which could well lead to another round of suspensions. (Quinn, whose Twitter timeline has quite a bit of additional coverage, says to “expect more suspensions.”) It can only be hoped that we will not see a repeat of last year’s seemingly endless saga. Nevertheless, the potential impact on baseball’s transactional side remains a realistic consideration.
Reports have not yet surfaced regarding the details of the newly-discovered information, such as what players might be involved and what sort of evidence arguably incriminates them. The bulk of the suspensions that came down last year were for fifty games apiece, and several notable players — including Nelson Cruz and Jhonny Peralta — ultimately missed the playoff push for contending clubs.
Peralta didn’t miss the playoffs.
It says “playoff stretch”
Well this is certainly the gift that keeps on giving.
Darn, I was just about to make this exact snarky comment. Good work Victoria!
MLB will wait until after the season to hand down the suspensions, they won’t want this to distract from the run up to the postseason like it did last year.
I don’t buy that. They want to make it hurt so guys don’t do it. Getting suspended for a playoff run should hurt.
The MLB wants to hurt player but not owners/teams, that has always been their approach to PED’s. News of last year’s suspensions came down before the trade deadline and in time for every player except Arod to return prior to the start of the postseason. They wouldn’t be able to do it so cleanly this year.
Clean doesn’t matter. They have never delayed anything until the next season. They enact punishment when they discover the crime. And I don’t think clean players, teams or ownership consider it a punishment to them. After all the Giants could have had Melky on the roster in 2012, but chose to play without him and still won. The team and its leadership were done with Melky, and it worked out fine for them.
I think it’s pretty clear that the punishments were designed to help the teams last year.
How so? They don’t deliberately punish the teams. They handed out the punishments as per the rules when they discovered the offense. They could have waited for the timing to be worse, but I never insinuated that that was what they did. They just don’t put it off until later.
Peralta and Cruz were given 50 games suspensions, and they made sure to give those suspensions out with exactly 50 games remaining in the season so that they could return for the playoffs. Braun was considered a second offender, which usually carries a 100 game suspension. But he was kind of banged up last year, and the Brewers were out of it anyway, so they let him just sit out the remaining 70 games or so remaining in the season and called it close enough. A-Rod was considered a second offender, which usually carries a 100 game suspension. The Yankees desperately wanted to get out of that bad contract, so they suspended him for the entire 162 game schedule this year to help free up some cash for the Yankees. Each suspension was custom tailored to help the corresponding teams.
They most likely did it that way so none of the players would appeal, because appealing would have meant a 100 game suspension. As for the ARod suspension, I think his was longer because he was trying to buy evidence and MLB wanted to punish him more severely. If they really wanted to help the Yankees they would have tried to make it a lifetime suspension.
And Braun’s first positive test was overturned, so you can consider those 20 extra games punishment for ruining the test taker’s reputation.
So basically you are saying the MLB will let players help out their team by cheating, allow them to make it to the postseason and compete for a World Series, while on steroids, so it doesn’t cause a distraction? Don’t you think the legitimacy of the champs would be in question, if 1 or even more players were suspended after they were allowed to win a World Series on steroids.. I’m sorry but I’d rather have to deal with multiple stories every day related to suspensions, then have cheaters help their team win a World Series. It would bring up al lot of conspiracy crap.
They’re obviously not still on the drugs from the biogenesis clinic.
They don’t care if the players use HGH/PEDs. They actually give them PERMISSION to use it all they want UNTIL they are caught the 3rd time which could take years. HGH can only be detected for about 24 hours after injecting in blood with the present tests used. Muscle biopsy would tell if players have been using HGH for years, which most have. They begin as teens so that the leg bones especially grow longer than average in proportion to the torso.
It would be sporting of MLB to give the GMs that list of potential users. I’d hate to see, for instance, the Bucs trade for someone to replace Cutch only to have that guy suspended for the season.
I agree, or so that they can plan accordingly, so if that someone on a team gets suspended, then the GM of the team has the opportunity to make a trade to patch the ship for a playoff run.
Since MLB is the owners, one would think that the teams do have access to the list.
Are you referring to Marlon Byrd by chance?
I can think of a few big names that are getting very nervous right about now.
Barry Bonds, Benito Santiago, Jeremy Giambi…oh wait….
More like Albert Pujols, Miguel Cabrera, etc.
Hey, if you’re just going to arbitrarily name the best hitters of the last five years, don’t forget to throw in Mike Trout and Paul Goldschmidt among others. Can’t forget the younger guys!
The young guys would NEVER use PED’s. Cmon man…
I wouldn’t bet on Pujols, he was bulking up in high school and I’m pretty sure some highschool kid in Kansas wasn’t exactly hanging out with the guys from Biogenesis.
Not to say he wasn’t roiding up the old fashioned way, like many players, but he didn’t have any sudden performance improvements during his career like most of the people named, and he never had to come back from a serious injury either.
Not saying he’s clean, just that he’s not in the Biogenesis pack.
Yeah, as Dave points out, Pujols started his HGH regimen before biogenesis even existed.
Just because someone is a good hitter doesn’t automatically mean they are on steroids. You need at least some type of evidence before throwing out wild accusations
Pretty sure both those guys would count as major names.
Guessing Cruz didn’t learn his lesson
Quinn says that previously unrevealed names have been learned, and more suspensions are expected… and your response is to accuse a player who has already been revealed and served a suspension?
Quinn does not say anywhere that the names are exclusive to first time offenders. Cruz is purely speculation on my part, however.
I wonder if Robinson Cano is on this new list. Remember he was on the original list but somehow got his name dropped.
Well that’s interesting news.
Source?
Cano wasn’t on the list. The spokesperson for Cano’s charity foundation was on the list.
his was on the first list but nothing happened to him.
You read it on some no name’s blog so it must be true
So the ones who THOUGHT they got away last season, are in the midst of finally getting caught? Sweet.
Better start prepping up those fake websites boys, just don’t call ACES for help.
Well. Just thowing a name out there but… Chris Davis anyone?
No. Everyone thinks that power surges automatically equal steroids. Chris Davis has always had tremendous power. He was able to put it all together last season
Yes, Davis’s HR increase came from increased contact, not increased power. But that doesn’t mean his power didn’t come from PEDs.
One more but I doubt it, Vmart?
Him, Byrd and Hunter having career years post 35, something’s fishy there. Just saying.
Hasn’t Byrd been popped before? I’d check but too busy figuring out who to point my finger at next..
Yep, in 2012.
Davis mashed all the way through the minors, Jose Bautista would be infinitely more likely.
Toronto’s such a hitter friendly ballpark, it doesn’t get it’s recognition for making guys like Edwin Encarnacion/Jose Bautista the power threats they are.
Encarnacion okay, Bautista came literally out of nowhere.
It really didn’t come from nowhere. It’s not like he went from no power to a lot of power. He went from some power in pitchers parks to a lot of power in a hitters park.
15 HR power in Pittsburg does not equal 54 HR power in Toronto with doubles staying exactly the same at age 30. I get what you are saying, I just can not agree with it.
I am not outright accusing him of PED use, but he is the player not linked to PEDs that would surprise me the least if it came out.
Right, he clearly improved his ability to hit HRs; it wasn’t all the switch to Toronto. Maybe it was the natural way, maybe it was PEDs. But people act like he had no history of hitting HRs, which just isn’t true. His potential was always as a power hitter.
I’ve always thought JD Martinez was kind of like Bautista… guy that never seemed to get it, gets dumped by a losing/rebuilding team then suddenly puts it all together and starts tearing after being picked up by another team. I hope neither of them are on the list, kind of like those guys.
Its hitter friendly because the Jays steal signs :p
Every team steals signs. The Jays were just too foolish and got caught stealing signs with the infamous “Man In White”.
Considering how much he was under the public eye for the past 3 years, I highly doubt he is taking PEDs.
Changing his swing and getting regular playing time is what did it.
He even thought it was a fluke as evident from his club friendly contract he signed a few years ago. His numbers and skill should be putting him closer to 20 million instead of 10 million
Oh, I’m aware they both changed their swings and actually had good power numbers before. Jose had a 20+ homer season in the minors so it’s not like he wasn’t ever projected to hit hit 20+ in his career.
It’s just people assuming that these guys have to be on something because they don’t like the player/team.
Who cares. Until they start yanking championships it doesn’t matter. if Ortiz is on this list, the Red Sox WS is void.
They should take some of the O’s recent ones if Chris Davis is on there. wait…
Kind of a silly statement IMO.
Should the yanks vacate their WS bc of AROD, 2012 Tigers Pennant bc of Peralta, 2009 Phillies due to Ruiz??
Where does it stop? You could potentially find a band substance on any team dating back to the late 70s.
It seems to be a black eye for baseball and many players/teams had knowledge of it. It is unfortunate that ppl cheated. I say let it be and move on.
However, I would like to see pitchers get back on the juice, im so tired of all the tommy johns!
I agree with your logic. I think vacated championships should happen, regardless of what team if wrong doing is found on the Red Sox, Yankees, Orioles or anyone else. How do we do that? It’s a mess, but on principle – I think we should.
Then you get into should we vacate records??
Just seems like if baseball were to that, there would be an extended period of this dark cloud looming over longer than needed.
Not having the stomach to pay the price for a mistake is never an excuse to condone it. That’s just my opinion.
I understand, byt my point of view that this has been going on so long, leaving a negative impact on the sport in the eyes of fair waether fans, why bring up the past? We have learned from the mistakes and are taking positive steps to remedy the problem.
Well, if folks are found guilty, then they must be held accountable not just for the ethics of not cheating but for the justice of the punishment for those already caught. I know I sound very elitist in what i am saying, but baseball is such a beautiful game. Even if it hurts, a lot, we need to clean it up.
Holding individuals accountable is fine (even if there still is the question: what were the people they were facing using??) But once you get to the team level, there’s problems.
I will say, if (and I don’t exactly think this is likely) David Ortiz were to be found to have been using an actual, specific substance and suspended I doubt I’d want him on my team anymore.
Agree 100% with the distinction. No way am I going to accept the record of a proven cheater for individual performance, such as Bonds, but you can’t strip the victories of an entire team for cheating. If that was the case how many World Series winners would actually stand?
There has been a whole lot of cheating going on in baseball besides PEDs for the last century +
It’s not even not having the stomach, but being incapable of knowing if you’re making the right choices. Like I said, because you know one guy on a winning team used something, how do you quantify the difference, and how can you be sure more people on the other team weren’t using more things? If we could ever know everything for sure, I might share your point of view, but it’s unfortunately just not possible.
I wish I could like this 1000x
Its a tough process. You have valid points. in the end , we as fans can have our own standards. As an Orioles fan I’d feel empty knowing a championship was tainted and I am sure teammates who are clean on said team would feel as bad if not worse.
I understand your logic. Still, for me, I am disappointed. Winning only feels right when its done honorably. To this I am sure we all agree.
You have your logic, and I respect it. I honestly do. However, I have mine and as crappy as it is to draw my line in the sand, I do it.
I don’t want a championship where anyone can add the words, “yeah but” to it.
I’ll wait, even for my beloved Orioles, a bit longer, for a win with dignity.
How would juicing prevent Tommy Johns? I believe it would cause (is causing) more, not less.
Then, once you vacate the championships, you also have to vacate all of the team’s losses, since their opponents also used steroids, thus making them undefeated and returning their championship to them. or something.
And what if Matt Holliday were also on there? Allen Craig? Carlos Beltran?
Or what about the Tigers? Peralta was on their ALCS team. What is Scherzer was using?
What if David Freese was using in 2011? We’ll probably never know. Arod was on the NYY team that won in 2009. Was Howard using in 2008, maybe? Nelson Cruz was on the Rangers’ playoff runs in 2010/2011, so do they lose their pennant?
Cheating is despicable, but it feels like pretty much every team has had some dubious connection to someone who is using or has used at some point. It feels like every big game in the 90’s and early 2000’s involved people who were using on both sides. So if you take a championship away from one team (a pointless notion after the fact, IMO), do you give it to the other team? Who’s to say they would’ve won? Who’s to say they were all clean?
I posted a bit lower that I understand your logic and to a point, agree with it. Regardless, we as fans know what is right and just. Roger Maris is still the HR champ, for example.
I’m not trying to say one team is more unethical than another. The Red Sox won the last WS, so i referenced them.
Let’s all agree this is a damned shame.
I’m fine with disliking cheaters, but really, Roger Maris is still the HR champ, to you. Roger Maris isn’t actually still the HR champ no matter how you want to slice it.
Roger Maris does still hold the American League single season record.
You have a problem with your Roger Maris HR champ statement. What makes you think he and AAron and others were clean? We do know from Johnny Damon’s statements that Greenies were widely used and available to everyone in both clubhouses in all the stadiums he was in. Thus cleaning up needs to start clear back with Babe Ruth and Prohibition not just in the 60’s and forward with the Psychedelic drugs or the 90’s with the anabolic steroids or the 2000’s with those and next with Human Growth (HGH) drugs. Who knows who took what and who drank what and who should be outlawed for there acts. it goes on and on, however it is just as rampant in the other sports but they get a mostly cleaner pass for coming forward with a plan.
If we do that, we might need to ADD 100 homeruns for Babe Ruth since he was half drunk many games.
the Pirates must have been out of the loop for 21 years if every team has a connection.
The Giants missed the playoffs in 11 of the 15 seasons they had Barry Bonds, easily the most prolific steroid guy.
Mark McGwire’s teams didn’t make the playoffs at all during his biggest power years (1996-1999).
Sammy Sosa only saw two playoffs in his 13 seasons with the Cubs.
Having a steroid connection does not instantly make a team amazing.
So is his hot dog eating championship
Carlos Gomez.
Let’s wait until there actually are announced suspensions before we start naming every player who had a power spike in their mid-20s.
Praying that no Phils that matter (Franco, Crawford, Nola, BP, Trade Canidates) are on this list. Thinking Papi, maybe Carlos Gomez, and some role players.
Cano ? Ortiz ? Davis?
Davis was too late, his power surge came last year after Bosch operation was obviously under investigation. I suspect any wrong doing would have occurred prior to last year’s suspensions.
Davis didn’t really have a power surge. He always had huge power. He basically had a huge first half in 2013 and then came back down to earth.
If it was 1 of those 3 names, I’d say Cano due to him possibly being in the original report.
I hope it’s none of them. I never want to see a player’s reputation tarnished, although in Ortiz’ case it would prevent him from achieving HoF status.
Jeter, Pettitte, Tex, Chamberlain, Sabathia, all these names who had a good career could be named what is your point?
I’m the furthest thing from a Yankees fan, but if Jeter was on there I’d quit baseball
Oh boy.
finally catching up to arods life time ban
A-Rod? It baffles me how he gets all the blame. MLB is just as guilty as he is.
in the fact that the team doctors write the scrips yes but nobody is forcing you to cheat
Lets say one of the High School athletes from Miami is now in the MLB would they be subject to suspension for taking PEDs prior to their entrance into MLB?
Just say Manny Machado, you might as well have tried to not say Santa Claus by saying, “The guy in the big red suit, who flies around using reindeer giving kids presents”.
I wish I could like your comment more than once. Brilliant.
The anticipation begins for who gets busted.
I smell a 700 year suspension for A-Rod.
Will his Yankees contract be over by then?
Not if Ruben Amaro XV has anything to say about it.
Dan Uggla.
IMO as you look around the majors at all the player over the last 18 months that has had a major problem keeping their Batting Averages above 200 that were + ball players a few years ago that may be a place to start.
Watching baseball in Cleveland a few guys that come to mind that have had several muscle related injury over that course of time Swisher / Bourn / Asdrubal Cabrera / Carlos Santana guys that year in and year out before the crack down were at the top of their games 20 + homers always at or slightly over a 300 BA.
The above makes one think on look at your own home town players
Here is a few more on other teams that meet the same Jose Reddick / Josh Hamilton
The ubiquitous use of infield shifts this season and the refusal to change their approach and go the other way has a lot to do with all the down batting averages.
Actually Batting average isn’t where to look … OPS is a more likely place.
Year to year averages are for young fans to look at and drool.
Puig?
Trout?
Clearly Stephen Drew.
Selig?
MLB needs to make it a rule that if you get suspended for PEDs during the year, you’re ineligible for that season’s postseason.
I’m not sure that would make a difference. This past off-season quite a few of the guys who received suspensions were signed to lucrative contracts.
I think they already did. As in, this past offseason.
I think he means regardless of when the player is suspended. Like if you’re suspended in late May, even if your suspension is up in like July or August, you’re still ineligible for the postseason.
Exactly.
I’m pretty sure that’s the way it is now. If I’m not mistaken, first-time suspensions were boosted to 80 games, second time to 162, and all suspended players are ineligible for the postseason now.
You are correct and there is a retroactive clause. Those whose names are released by the Feds now will be subject to the current penalties despite when they used.
Funny. Jhonny Peralta hit .333 with 4 doubles, a HR and 6 RBI in the postseason last year while suspended.
The JDA was upgraded after the 2013 season. As in, the 2013/2014 offseason. Seriously, dude? Clearly the rule wasn’t in effect last season.
Quick, Gaby Sanchez, go hide…
Nevermind he’s been hiding all year.
From Quinn: “Two most common responses I’ve gotten on unnamed players are “please be Ortiz” and “please be Jeter.”
I must say in all my Yankee hating years I’ve never though/hoped Jeter was a PED user. Who does?
Not surprised.
I think the internet would collapse into itself like a dying star if Jeter was on the list.
Even if Jeter was involved (I’m not saying he is) all the evidence would be sealed and put into a crate like at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark
And years from now when the box is opened faces would melt off.
Is that before or after George S and Teddy ballgame are regenerated from frozen statis?
Hard to see why people would want Jeter’s career ruined in his last season. I get that everyone who isn’t a Sox fan dislikes Ortiz. But the Jeter think is hard to get.
You would also have to figure that if there was any truth to that (Jeter) MLB would do everything within their power to bury it.
Because he plays for the most hated team possibly in all of sports (and Ortiz probably plays for the 2nd most hated team in his sport)
You can’t be best at everything. Jeter is one of the most respected players in the game. I can see disliking ARod, but even on my worst day it’s tough to wish ill on Jeter.
Ortiz’s name has been in and out of PED rumors for years so there no surprise there but I would expect to see a lot of names ahead of Jeter. In fact that may be the first Jeter PED related remark I have read.
Yes this.
Oh no I heard people think Jeter is on PED’s, especially in 2012 when he led the league in hits.
And if it wasn’t for Dan Shaungnessy and his anti-boston hatred to expand Dan’s own career we wouldn’t be hearing any rumors about Ortiz connection except for the he may of been on the non disclosed 2004 list. Ortiz has been Tested more than any other player over the last few years with the random test scheme (mainly because of this) and no drugs have been found in those tests. But he he is the best at what he does and that is reason enough for some to accuse.
I think there are a lot of closet Jeter haters out there that won’t say it when he’s doing things right because they don’t want to seem the odd one out. It would absolute floor me if Jeter was one of these names, considering his legacy was already set in stone and he had 3k hits before 2012 – the alleged Biogenesis season – even began.
Well if he cheated I would certainly want it ruined.
I don’t know. I’d rather not know after spending this entire season watching ESPN, Fox and MLB put on their respective love fests for him. I’m never going to get any of that time back.
Maybe because so many realize that Jeter was actually really selfish and not everyone’s hero? But that is neither here nor there in the scheme of things drug related.
It’s not really about Jeter. It’s about the sanctimony of fans who claim that some heroes are perfect.
I kind of do now, not because of Jeter, but because of how crushed everyone at ESPN and such would be 😛
Baseball won’t suspend 90 guys. It can’t. It’s too many.
Prediction: These names get swept under the rug, unless they are leaked in a public trial and baseball is forced to take action.
Be interesting to see who got the spots and how they played if ninety did get suspended.
Strange that no one has mentioned this yet, but an outside source is about to release MORE names of PROVEN PED users that the MLB was unable to catch. Can we all agree that the MLB has NO idea how to catch these guys now? How many times does this have to happen for people to realize this? Unless they are going to shoot up in front of a reporter, the MLB still has no way of knowing if these guys are using. They can talk all they want about the players being tested, but these lists prove beyond doubt that their testing process is a sham, meant only to assuage the gullible. I can’t wait for Selig to leave.
What more can Selig do? Please explain. I don’t think there is much more someone else could do. They have the best testing in sports and actually care about cleaning the game…
well said.
He could just cover it up and act like there are no PEDs in baseball…instead he tries to fix it and apparently is a horrible commish for it, just cause he decided to put a stop to it. Should have swept it under a rug I guess.
I agreed with you but my agree came under chicothekid instead?
Really? It seems to me as if he cares a great deal about LOOKING like he cares about cheaters, but doesn’t care much at all about actually catching them. I can test every player in the league, every single day if you like. THEN I can go the public and proclaim that I have made the game PED free, so they can feel free to worship their heroes once again. I won’t be telling you that my testing procedure doesn’t work at all though. You’ll have to figure that one out for yourself.
Selig LOVES to talk tough about PED’s because it sounds great, but he loves what they do for the game and doesn’t want them going anywhere. He just wants you to think they are gone, and to remain ignorant. Keep doing that if you will, but I’m not buying what he’s selling. The writing is on the wall.
He might catch a fool every now and then, just to show the public that he is on top of things and rooting out the bad apples, but when more lists like this become public, the truth is self-evident. He can’t catch them or doesn’t want to catch them. Both are probably true, but you’ll never hear it from him.
“Selig LOVES to talk tough” and he is actually only after his own legacy…
There I fixed your speech for you. LOL
One thing mlb can do, attack the money. If you get caught using a PED, you lose your contract and can only sign one year deals for the remainder of your career.
Or you could get even more extreme, players caught using peds can never get paid more then 5m in a season for the rest of their career.
Or more extreme, get caught once and you’re banned from baseball forever.
That’s something the players’ union would have to work out (at the very least, agree to). MLB can propose it all they want, but if the players’ union says no, nothing MLB can do.
Players will say yes to anything, they HATE ped users more than the fans do. I bet they would tie these guys down and beat them with socks full of rocks if they had the chance.
Except if you live in the fear that something that a trainer gives you pops up on a list of banned substances (unbeknownst to you or your trainer). I believe that there are a few cases out there where the player truly didn’t know that what they were taking was illegal – so that’s something the union would have to consider.
Publicly, I’m sure the large majority of the players are in outcry over PEDs. But privately, when you threaten their livelihood (money), they might not be so quick to get on board with it.
I have always liked the losing your contract(if team elects to do so)…and to avoid another team just offering the same contract or better make it so a team can only offer 75% of the original contract max…and the original team can match any offer. So no matter what the player loses 25% of his money.
Problem is the player union would never agree to such things.
If that was the case, teams would “accidentally” give players PEDs to get out from under their contracts. I’m sure the Yankees would jump at the chance to have A-Rod’s contract wiped away for testing positive for PEDs under that system of penalties.
I don’t see why teams should have to protect and shelter PED users. If they get caught doing something explicitly against the rules, they should get severely punished for it. Players would most certainly think twice if using a PED meant they lost their livelihood. You think ARod would use at all and risk the hundreds of millions he was owed? How about Braun? Braun would lose probably 75% of his career earnings if users were reduced to 5m salaries. You could get rid of suspensions altogether and just go straight for the money.
Just for example, if you automatically reduced all salaries to 5m and kept the contracts otherwise, Braun’s 5 year 105m extension that hasn’t even started yet would become 5 years, 25m extension. The last 22m he was owed on his current contract would drop to 10m. He would have lost 92m, or 72% of his total earnings. Do you think he would have risked that? Also, amusingly, since his salary is deferred, he would have only been paid 1m a year during his extension. Ryan Braun for 1m a year.
You missed the point of my post. Teams could have their trainers “accidentally” give players PEDs so as to get out from under their bad contracts. Yankees with A-Rod, Dodgers and their entire outfield, Phillies with Howard, etc. Suddenly, these albatross contracts don’t look nearly as bad.
This potential for abuse is just one reason why players will never agree to a penalty like that.
You realize that it would be FRAUD to do that, right? As in, you go to prison time. You’re talking about committing criminal fraud to get out a contract. Yeah, I’m sure there are lots of frauds they could try to run to get out of a contract. Hey, maybe they could start a ponzi scheme, too, while they’re at it. If you’re going to start committing felonies, you may as well go all in, right?
Yankees were reportedly looking for every loophole in MLB to try to get out of A-Rod’s contract just a year ago. Not too hard to believe somebody would 2 and 2 together and try to push their players towards PEDs in an effort to get out from under their contracts. Not sure if you’ll remember Curt Schilling’s claims from a year ago? While MLB found them baseless claims when, unsurprisingly, everyone was hush on the matter; is it so hard to believe a team would put some pressure on a guy to do PEDs to ‘help the team.’
Player says “no.”
So we’re choosing to ignore that anyone in the world ever actively engages in any illegal/immoral activities…in an article about such activities. Nice.
If a team tries to force you to commit a crime, you pick up your phone and call the local newspaper. Better yet, call the FBI.
Because the GM is going to go around tackling players and forcefully injecting them with PEDs. I can tell this conversation is going absolutely nowhere so I’m just going to stop responding…wow.
You’re trying to tell me a baseball rule may not work because people might force other people to commit felonies. You’re basically saying MLB is organized crime. We already have laws that protect people from being forced to commit felonies, MLB doesn’t have to worry about that. The FBI has that under control.
two words and an acronym…guaranteed contracts MLBPA
Sometimes the proof is in the results. If this many players keep popping up from outside evidence, testing methods probably are not as effective as they should be.
Past and present I assume? Man this sport is becoming such a mess. Good luck to the next commish cause he’s going to need it.
The people cheating are always ahead of the people trying to catch them. It’s not a baseball specific thing.
Maybe a poor example but I always think of video games when I think of PED use. And like you said they are always ahead…and if you catch them one way they find a new way to cheat. The world isn’t perfect and it never will be cheat free. All they can do is minimize it.
Computer hackers are what come to my mind.
It’s impossible to predict the crime before it happens. The cheaters will always be one step ahead.
I saw a documentary called the Minority Report that proved the same. Riveting stuff.
If the testing for hGH (that MLB had been asking for for years) and the biological passport and isotope ratio mass spectrometry (that they had also been asking for for years) had been in place, like they are now, the Biogenesis “clients” would have been caught. It wasn’t until Biogenesis that the MLBPA finally caved and agreed to those tests.
Carlos Gomez…V-Mart…..JD Martinez?
enough already. do we really need this?
Better this than sweeping it under the rug for another decade.
with you completely on that. it was frustration at players who may still be on the bottle/needle
Yes, we do. All those players who were cheating and thought they got away with it need to be exposed. Every player who used needs to be exposed, even the ones on whatever each of our favorite teams is. I don’t want any Orioles to be on the list, but if there are any then it needs to be known.
i agree–i’m expressing disgust at players who can’t stop despite the penalties
The reward is so great (a bigger contract, more money) that it outweighs the risk that they may be caught or ruin their “name”. It probably doesn’t matter to them. If a very good, young player could juice, get his family an extra $10 M – life changing money for most people – he’d take that chance.
I may not like that they cheat, but I understand a lot of the logic behind why someone would.
Yeah, but why did the MLB wait till now to do this?
Playoff run is happening.
Trade Deadline just passed.
I mean I want to punish the cheaters too, but doing it at the beginning of the season would have been best or heck even in June, so we all know what’s going on!!! I mean come on somebody had to know something.
Because the names were discovered during the Fed investigation and MLB doesn’t even know them yet.
MLB is a scam, now they are goin after specific teams they dont want in the playoffs, why else would they “release” the info now?
Well from what Quinn is saying, MLB didn’t have these names previously. The new arrests have lead to new people being named, now it’s up to MLB to release them or not.
I think it’s all a farce. How in the world can the FBI run thru all the evidence and hand down suspensions before they use that evidence to prosecute? There is no way all this info should have ever ended up in the hands of MLB.
Jose Bautista anybody?
Based on…home runs?
Historically, that’s been a pretty good indicator.
clemens hit a ton of them
I feel like he would be considered “major”
LeBron James
Ortiz
Jeter.
C’mon, the guy was done at 36, hit a career low .271 and then, somehow at 38 he’s again hitting .330? I thought Colin Cowherd said players don’t get better with age. At least that’s what he’s said about Ortiz.
Or Mo Riveria. Can you name a player who was more dominant at 40 than he was at 25?
According to Cowherd we can no longer have great players past the age of 30.
When it comes to Cowherd and baseball he seems lost. I myself like listening to Cowherd as I like hearing him just flat out put his opinion out there (no matter that he pretty does play favorites to some people/teams), but Cowherd is also the same person who thinks the Dodgers should win the World Series every year just because they have Kershaw and pretty much picks his favorite teams in baseball to talk about based off if they are winning or not.
Your name…
And this post…
Make perfect sense.
I really hope there are no players from the Angels in this…
The honorary McGwire/Bonds/Sosa/Clemens/Arod committee should police the bad guys
I have a really bad feeling Ortiz is ending up on a list…
brendan ryan
The latest update uses the phrase “fairly significant” but not “major”. Both he and the other guy being mentioned would be major. The Tweet is pretty much saying neither of the guys that everyone wants to be on the list are on the list.
I wonder if teams knew this was coming and then traded players before the trade deadline. Seemed like more major leaguers were traded than the last few years.
Yay! Begin the scurrilous character assassination of various baseball players based on faulty understandings of biology, chemistry, statistics or any semblance of a knowledge of baseball history.
I’m curious to hear you explain further.
As am I, just to hear if there was a point or meaning to any of that.
huh? said the aflak duck
One thing we learned for sure throughout all of this is that the MLB drug testing doesn’t work.
It did catch Braun, Melky, Montero and several others. It’s not that it doesn’t work. But it’s clear some players are ahead of the tests.
Actually, I don’t think it caught any of them, they were caught by means other than MLBs drug testing program.
Braun and Melky both tested positive for elevated testosterone to epistestosterone ratio (T:E ratio) because the didn’t follow the protocol Bosch laid out. hGH is not only a PED but when taken at precise times in relation to bio-identical T it reduces the T level in relation to E. The “trigger” for a failed test used to be a 4:1 ratio…anything higher than 4 was a fail. hGH artificially lowers that ratio. Now with Biological Passports (or longitudinal profiling system and it’s called in the JDA) allows for “tracking” of T:E ratios and variances will trigger a IRMS which will detect bio-identical T. They also do random IRMS tests. The only tougher testing is the WADA but not by much. More hGH tests are needed.
I hope you realize that because of Biogenesis the MLBPA finally caved and the protocols like hGH blood tests, Biological Passports, Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry are all now being used…all the things that would have caught the Biogenesis clients.
Baseball is like anything else. There will always be cheaters and some of them get caught. Some people can’t accept the fact that life is not fair.
The advert at the top of my page – on a story about Biogenesis related suspension – is of ryan Braun hocking sneakers
Please, Please, Please be Ryan Howard. Suspended games without pay would be just what the doctor ordered.
Don’t they call them Performance Enhancing Drugs because they enhance performance? Howard doesn’t seem likely.
The Phillies have to let the big contracts expire and come up with a farm system again.
Big Papi, Bautista & Encarnacion…come on down, you’re the next contestants!
I understand why people would say Bautista based on the statistics. I disagree that that is sufficient evidence, but I understand. However, I don’t see it with EE. For one thing, he only became elite, all-star material after the BioGenesis scandal erupted. For another, he ALWAYS had raw power even back in Cincinnati.
I would guess it’s because no one believes in the drug testing program.
Well, they said “significant but not major” which would rule out the top stars, presumably. And, if MLB has any control over it, I would be very surprised to see any of the names made public before the end of the post season. They don’t need the distraction. But, the key is also that the end of the WS begins the exclusive bargaining period for FA plus the choices on whether to offer QO, so I also wonder of MLB will not privately let owners/MLBPA the results in advance so teams and players can be prepared.
My guess, teams already know or have a fairly good idea who is on the list. As for the MLBPA, I’d bet after the story of Biogenesis broke Tony Clark was on the phone for a long time with various players and agents asking about their options.
Once MLB has the names as well as the documents of proof they purchased and decide to charge the players the have 72 hours to notify the players and MLBPA
Anyone think nelson cruz is a repeat offender? He is having a career year after serving his suspension.
I don’t think any of the players that got suspended for Biogenesis previously are going to be again for Biogenesis. It was shut down, so it’s not like they could have gotten steroids through Biogenesis since then or anything. I’m figuring it’s new names.
it pays to cheat in MLB. cheat. do your 50 games. come back. sign a huge contract. all is forgiven. what a joke.
this had been going on since 1970 and nothing was done in that time span from that time on maybe even earlier tom harvey goes on to say there was nothing unethical when technically there was something ethical wrong doing all together in all of this who is he trying to kid illegal is illegal.