THURSDAY: ESPN’s Jayson Stark reports that the previous details of Hamels’ no-trade clause were slightly incorrect, however the error is notable: the Red Sox are on Hamels’ no-trade clause, while the Cubs, according to Stark, are not (Twitter link). It’s still not known if the Cubs were the team to claim Hamels, but if they are the claiming team, he would not have any veto power over a potential deal.
WEDNESDAY: Phillies ace Cole Hamels has been claimed by an unnamed team on revocable waivers, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter). The Phillies will have 48.5 hours to work out a trade with the claiming team or pull Hamels back on waivers. Of course, if Hamels was claimed by any club other than the Red Sox, Angels, Nationals, Dodgers, Cardinals, Braves, Padres, Rangers or Yankees — the nine teams not included on his no-trade clause — he would have the right to veto the deal.
As Rosenthal notes, the Phillies may prefer to wait until the offseason to listen to offers on Hamels, as they’ll be free to negotiate with multiple clubs at that time rather than the lone club that has currently placed a claim on Hamels. As a reminder, waiver priority would be determined by reverse order of record, beginning with the player’s current league. In other words, the Rockies, who have the NL’s worst record, would have the first crack at claiming Hamels. Every other NL team would have a chance to do so before Hamels was made available to the team with the worst record in the AL (the Rangers).
The 30-year-old Hamels is guaranteed $90MM from 2015-18 (plus a $6MM buyout of his 2019 option) and is enjoying yet another elite season on the mound. He’s posted a 2.42 ERA (2.85 FIP, 3.16 xFIP) to go along with 9.1 K/9, 2.6 BB/9 and a 46.9 percent ground-ball rate in 137 1/3 innings. Hamels would be the ace of many staffs around the league and would appeal to a wide range of teams — even non-contenders. In his Insider-only blog today, ESPN’s Buster Olney speculated that it would behoove the Cubs to claim Hamels and try to work out a deal for the dominant southpaw, as he could serve as a building block for their rotation for several years.
Rosenthal also tweets that Marlon Byrd was claimed by an unknown team, while closer Jonathan Papelbon cleared waivers. Byrd is earning $8MM in 2014 and will earn the same in 2015, and he has an easily attainable vesting option at the same rate for the 2016 season. That obstacle proved to be problematic for Philadelphia GM Ruben Amaro Jr. while he was listening to offers on Byrd at the trade deadline this season, as he was vocal about his displeasure with the offers he received for Byrd. The 36-year-old Byrd is batting a healthy .269/.318/.474 with 21 homers and solid defense in right field. He can block trades to the Royals, Mariners, Blue Jays and Rays.
Papelbon, meanwhile, is earning $13MM in 2014 and will earn the same sum in 2015. He, too, has a vesting option at his current rate which can be easily attained if he remains healthy in 2015. Papelbon has a 1.71 ERA with 8.6 K/9, 2.5 BB/9 and a 36.7 percent ground-ball rate in 47 1/3 innings for the Phillies this season. However, he’s also thrived thanks to a .238 BABIP and an 83.3 percent strand rate while seeing his average fastball velocity dip to a career-low 91.4 mph, leading many to believe that regression is around the corner. Papelbon has a limited no-trade clause but said last month that he would be more than willing to waive that right to approve a trade to a contending club.
Please don’t think 1) Hamels claim was awarded to AL team and 2) He’ll even get a deal done with NL team that claimed him.
Amaro will be fired anyway..but a Hamel’s deal needs to be done right as this is the biggest piece they have to improve
Amaro will be fired?? Really?? EVERY team puts quite a few of their stars on revocable waivers in August. 1) they’re revocable. 2) you can’t try to trade them without sending them through waivers.
He should be. Nothing to do with him outing his guys in waivers..just would/should be fired because of the “success” of his team and the quality of his signings.
You can only “give it one more try” so many times with an aging core. Should’ve torn it down LAST season.
situation fits the Cubs really well. Hamels is still only 30, controlled though 2018 (when he’ll be 34, so not into old age), produces WAR at better than market rate. Cubs need front line pitching and have prospects to deal. if a waiver wire deal can get done for a #1 starter, this could be it.
Why?
If the Sox won the claim for him..wouldn’t be surprised if they make a legit offer. What are some packages people see as possible from teams that potentially could have claimed him?
Whatever a legit offer would be it probably wouldn’t be close to what Amaro is asking for if reports are true, top 3 prospects and other pieces
Million to 1 shot he made it all the way through to the Sox
I’m a sox fan but even I have to agree that he will most likely not make his way to the Sox. But is it me or do most Sox fans think they can trade or sign anyone at any given time?
In the defense of Red Sox fans, with the quality of their farm system they do have the ammo to acquire top talents if they became available. The question becomes whether they want to use that ammo.
Probably 2/4 of Boegarts/Betts/Owens/Swihart and Webster or Ranaudo for Hamels and cash(around 20 million)
Owens and Swihart are not going anywhere. I’m not giving up on Xander, but Sox have parted with SS before to improve team .
that would be the request, but realistically they would offer something like Kelly and Workman (and that is a good trade for hamels contract)
Amaro was asking the Dodgers to take on Hamels entire contract plus give up their top three prospects. He also stated he wasn’t overvaluing his players. lol
For Hamels, that’s what he should be asking for. He’s fully worth the $22.5M/year and depending on the system he’s definitely worth 3-4 top prospects.
Huh the market for David Price disagrees.
Price didn’t have as much value as Hamels does. Would you rather have Price for 14-months and potentially lose him to free agency or have Hamels for about $100M over the next 4+ years, potentially 5+?
Price is 7m cheaper this year, and likely a few mil cheaper next. significantly younger, and likely to make less next year (has a player ever gotten more than 20m in arbitration?). Price likely will sign a similar contract to what hamels has now,
Sure, Price will be cheaper overall in 2014-’15. After that, I’d be surprised if he signs for less than $25M/year whether it be with the Tigers of somewhere else. Probably looking for at least 7 years as well.
This is where it kind of depends. Who was better for the Tigers? Price or Hamels? I’m going to say Price. He effects two pennant races and you don’t have to deal with him past age 30 if you don’t want/need to. Perhaps my initial remark comparing the two was unfair because it’s like apples and oranges. While Hamels contract with 4 or 5 years remaining looks good compared to what Lester, Scherzer, Price and Shields are going to get, you could also compare Hamels to someone like Sabathia. Someone define what 3 or 4 top prospects look like. The Cubs #1, 2 and 3 prospects look better than a lot of teams best prospects and to me that’s where it gets a little tricky. I know aces are expensive but 6 cost controlled years of Bryant, Simmons or Baez seems like a lot. In fairness to Hamels his velocity has not even come down a bit. I’m torn and I’m a fan of neither team.
The sox would be better off going after one of the 2 top free agent pitchers than giving up 3 top prospects. He’s a very good pitcher but not an ace.
he’s an Ace. plain and simple. especially if he came into the Red Sox rotation. Apparently the Sox do not want to spend the 140+million that it will take to sign the FA top pitchers, which is why the Lester-back-to-Boston is not a foregone conclusion. Their other option, then, is to deal from their prospect wealth to acquire Hamels. Honestly the Sox are, in my opinion, the most feasible team that can get a deal done
An ace is a top 10 pitcher in the league. Hamels has not even come close to winning the cy. The closest he’s come was a 5th place finish back in 2011. He’s a very good pitcher but not a true ace. Obviously he would look good in the sox rotation. Considering what they have right now, a guy off the street would look good. My point was simple. If you’re going to spend a little under 100M for Hamels while giving up your top three prospects (Betts, Swihart, Owens) then why not cough up that extra 35-40M to keep those highly praised prospects and bring back a guy who we know “can pitch in Boston and the American League East.”
He’s year in and year out one of the top lefties in the game as well as a World Series MVP. Please, define an “ace” for me
Don’t get me wrong, he’s a very good pitcher but when I define an ace, I’m thinking of a guy who’s easily a top-10 pitcher in the league, dominates his starts, and is one of the top candidates to win the cy every year. The players I view as aces are Kershaw, Greinke, Scherzer, Price, F. Hernandez, Sale, Cueto, & Wainwright. Tanaka, J. Hernandez, and Harvey are close to it but injuries have hindered their experience. I would love Hamels on my team but the closest he’s ever come to winning the cy was a 5th place vote back in 2011. I’d rather bring back Lester than give up on prospects like Swihart, Betts, & Betts.
A cy young award is mainly chosen on perception. Hamels has always received awful run support, which cost him a multitude of wins, and was constantly overshadowed by Roy Halladay for a large chunk of his career. I’d take Hamels over half the guys you listed. He’s a proven commodity and not an injury-riddled flash in the pan like half of the names on your list.
Not to mention Cliff Lee.
You do realize that Greinke has 1 awesome year (2009), a thoroughly good year (2013), and is currently on the verge of posting another thoroughly good year (though that could drop depending on the remaining games).
Hamels has posted an ERA+ of 130 or higher 5 times in his 8 years in the majors. Greinke has posted an ERA+ of 130 twice. Both are on pace to do it again this year (though Hamels currently has a 154, as compared to Greinke’s 131).
I’m not sure how you see Greinke as being an ace if Hamels isn’t. Even if you’re just looking at this year. Incidentally, the same applies to Price (who has an identical ERA+ to Hamels). And Scherzer. Wainright has 4 seasons over 130.
Come on Angels! Let’s get that mystery team magic back!
Sure. Hamels for Trout.
Trout is untouchable. Nice try. 🙂
someone missed the sarcasm..
I didn’t miss the sarcasm. Lol.
Saying trout is untouchable says you missed the sarcasm. Should have gone with Trout for Hamels and 1 billion dollars.
trout only represents about 80m in surplus value over the course of his contract… he may be on the block for what amaro wanted for hamels (3 top 25 prospects and a big wad of cash)
Angels have no prospects to give up. Unless they want to give up ML ready talent like Calhoun+other pieces.
One of Shoemaker or Santiago, Cron and a prospect. Too little or fair deal?
only if they throw in a bag of baseballs……
Not even close.
Eh, still not enough. But with the little that TB got for a better pitcher in Price, I guess anything could go TBH.
Really?
Whoever said the Phillies needed ALL prospects. What, is Amaro going sacrifice some dry years ahead for that? A psuedo mixture of current with future could probably get it done, and believe not, the Halos appear to have that:
Cron, Santiago, Bedrosian, and maybe McGowin.
Cron isnt an NL player. That package cant even match what the dodgers could put together outside of Pederson, Urias, Seager.
I can think of at least 5 good reasons why Hamels would never be traded to the Angels:
1) no way the Dodgers didn’t put in a waiver claim
2) Angels have no prospects
3) A Hamels trade would weaken the current MLB roster
4) Hamels contract would put the Angels over the 2015 luxury tax line
5) Arte Moreno doesn’t like to spend on pitchers, Hamels would be the Angels most highly paid pitcher ever
Im not saying that its going to happen, but weren’t you shocked at the albert pujols signing, that was done at the same time as C.J? Or how about the Hamilton signing? All minus maybe CJ came as a surprise to pretty much everyone. I still am saying this probably wont for the halos, but im making a point. And yes, everyone knows the angels have no prospects, im so sick of people making that washed up point. Im sure others are too. 🙂
I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if Arte tried to make a move for Hamels.
I would be terribly surprised if Hamels made it past 28 teams on the waiver wire (every team except the Oakland A’s) to reach the Angels without being claimed.
Dodgers for example don’t care about going over the luxury tax threshold and would likely gladly replace Haren with Hamels to win now.
$229,335,934 2014 Dodgers obligated payroll, with their eggs all in 1 basket upon a botched Time Warner TV deal and subscribers refusing to pay the higher cable bill says the Dodgers didn’t claim Hamels.
If you think money is an issue for the Dodgers, you really need to look at the assets behind the Guggenheim group. As for the Time Warner TV deal, the money is guaranteed. It’s Time Warner’s issue, not the Dodgers.
It is either the Dodgers or a block by someone above them.
I need your source that shows 7 billion with the Time Warner TV deal “guaranteed.” And, if money isn’t an issue for the Dodgers, then why have we seen their many big money names put out on the waiver wire this week?
Most teams put just about everyone on revocable waivers.
it is not time warner, it is a seperate subsidiary. one that if they do not fix the things that Jawilli mentioned (most of the market not subscribing) they will have no way to pay the contract. Reality is that bankruptcy is a real possibility, and the dodgers will not get that offer again.
Gotta be the Pirates with Byrd.
That’s the logical fit. Unless someone like the Reds claimed him to block him from the Pirates (while simultaneously helping their club).
A pickup of Marlon Byrd would be very good for the Reds to shore up LF.
I’d agree if he wasn’t under contract for 2015. They can’t afford to pay his salary for next year.
I find that quite sad for one of the oldest franchises in the history of Baseball. But you are correct.
I don’t I hate the Reds!
Hamels to Rockies since they passed on Jacob Turner lol
Come on Padres first pick lol yeah right
He’s from SD too
I doubt the Padres’ owners are looking to take on that kind of salary at this point. They need to rebuild and make a lot of other pieces of the team strong before they go for expensive free agent pieces to fill in the gaps.
not to mention that SP is their only strong suit. Ross and cashner look like aces
What about Howard? Did he get claimed? 😛
There is no way Howard gets claimed.
I don’t see any team willing to risk Philly just giving him to the claiming team to ditch that contract….
That absolutely is what would happen.
“Give me everything” – Ruben Amaro
Other GMs: “All we have are these magic beans”
RAJ: “I’ll take it!”
He needs to go. None of the other GM’s even take him seriously. He’s in this position where he needs to make some great deal/deals but no one wants to do business with him because he has nothing good besides Hamels and no one wants to be the first one to be had by Ruben. The management team needs to be gutted and rebuilt. Player development, everything. They need to do what the Cubs did a few years back. It’s going to be a football and hockey town for a few years.
they have some things of value… Crawford, Biddle, Franco, Quinn, Nola… my bet is that Amaro was told that the minute he trys to trade one of them he is fired
Hopefully the Rockies passed on Hamels too and Theo/Jed jumped on it.
Still bitter over missing out on Turner !
Going to go out on limb here…. a very solid limb, Hamels and Papelbon stay put. Byrd is traded for next to nothing.
Byrd could have been traded for next to nothing last week – which according to Amaro is what he was offered. Why would he do so now if he isn’t under pressure to cut salary? Its not like there is someone sitting in AAA waiting for his chance to play being blocked by Byrd (hence why the Phillies had to sign Grady Sizemore).
Byrd is actually viewed as having a reasonable contract,
Factoring in the waiver order(reverse of standings) who do you think claimed Hamels and has priority? Let’s see who can guess it correctly.
I’ll start: Cubs but hamels will stay put
Cubs won’t spend that kind of money.
Yes, but the Phillies won’t just give him up. If Clayton Kershaw was on waivers, you know the worst team in the NL would claim him even if they couldn’t afford his contract. They are doing it to block anyone else from acquiring him that can afford the contract.
Dodgers wouldn’t just give up Kershaw for salary relief the same way the phillies wouldn’t give up Hamels for the same. Now Ryan Howard on the other hand…
Dodgers
No way jose! They probably put in a claim but no way they are awarded the claim. Their record is too good.
You seem to know an awful lot for someone that’s not part of the Phillies front office. Last time I checked, one can’t know the future. It would have also made sense for the Rockies to claim Jacob Turner, but they didn’t. Anything can happen. That is my guess. Quit arguing with opinions.
Going to have to say Cubs are awarded the claim with SF, STL and LAD all putting in claims as well.
Cubs……
I’d be surprised if Hamels made it past the Cubs. They are going to be shopping for top of rotation pitchers this offseason anyway, so they probably figured they could make the claim and see if they could convince Amaro to give them a bargain.
There’s no real chance for an actual trade…but it doesn’t hurt to claim him.
Guarantee if the Cubs were willing to trade a few of their top prospects-which they won’t-the Phillies would jump all over that. Now Hamels…
Hope it was the dodgers.
that would be interesting….need to give up a top prospect in return.
Im fine with that. A top prospect, not multiple top prospects
Im sure SF would claim just to block the Dodgers.
Yeah, I could see that too.
Phillies are in such a mess……they need to clean out the FO, dump salaries, and rebuild the farm system………..look at 2022 time table to see the Phillies back in the playoffs.
We’ll give RAJ Pederson and lower ceiling guys and take Hamels and the his entire salary
Awful. If I was a GM I’d lowball Amaro cuz well he’s Ruben, but 1 good
prospect plus “lower ceiling guys” yeah..not happening even with Amaro
I wouldn’t give him too much credit. Lower ceiling guys( Lee, Guerrero) Not our top guys ( Urias, Seager) I didn’t mean bottom of the barrel.
Yeah, a package like Pederson, LH SP Chris Reed or Zach Lee and Alex Guerrero for Hamels would be fair, assuming the Dodgers take on all of Hamels’ salary.
I’d be fine with that, but don’t think Guerrero is a fit for the Phillies.
I think he would. Guerrero could probably play 3B, which the Phillies really don’t have anyone. And Utley is only signed through 2015 so Guerrero could move there in a year.
Phillies aren’t going to give up on Asche, and if Franco can get it together he’ll be up by mid next year. Utley has vesting options through 2018, he’ll still be here for awhile.
Okay, so maybe they do another prospect instead. My point is the Dodgers and Phillies could make it work out.
Good luck with that… Amaro wanted top prospects back for Marlon Byrd. He’s gonna want a whole lot more back for one of the best pitchers in the game who is still in his prime.
Please find where it said he wanted “top prospects” back for Byrd. The reports have said “good prospects”. There is a difference between “top” and “good”. I’m curious that everyone keeps saying “top prospects” are what RAJ asked for Byrd – despite never seeing that one time, myself (and I feel like I follow the rumors pretty well).
I heard this from Jayson Stark on his radio show. You can listen to the podcast on 97.5 the fanatic. Reports were they asked the Yankees for Luis Severino or Aaron Judge, #2 and #5 in their system (this per Dan Pfeiffer).
The Yankees system – not in all baseball. There’s a massive difference between #2 and #5 in the Yankees system, and, say, the Red Sox.
Severino is a good prospect- top 50ish in all of baseball.
Judge is a power hitter without a true position and a questionable hit tool. I love judge, but really top 150ish in all of baseball. The yankees have an average to weak farm system.
Would Ruben Amaro Jr. take a package centered around Josh Bell and Nick Kingham for Hamels? along with a couple of the Pirates good midlevel prospects? Would the Phillies pay about 30 million of his remaining salary?
No way the pirates risked putting in a waiver claim, that contract would bankrupt them.
They honestly do have the money, they are just unwilling to spend it. So they would not go bankrupt, but you can bet they wouldn’t make any other additions until the Hamels contract would be up.
Hamels contract would limit the Pirates financially in the future, but if the Phillies paid it down to an average annual salary of about 18 million per year, it would be very manageable for the Pirates if Hamels was producing like a number one starter for most of the remainder of the contract.
No risk at all.
Any situation where the Phillies would just let hi go, they wouldn’t be allowed to. And if for some idiotic reason, the Phils did send him to Pittsburgh for nothing, the Pirates could just turn around and flip him for a good haul in the offseason.
This is why I wouldn’t be surprised to hear he was claimed by the Rockies simply as a means of blocking Los Angeles.
That’s not enough, especially if the Phillies eat 1/3 of his remaining salary. Even without taking on money it’s probably a non-starter without Glasnow and either Polanco or Bell.
To get Hamels at $15M over the next 4 years it’ll take something along the lines of Glasnow, Bell/Polanco, Hanson, Jones and Sampson. That’s a monster price for the Pirates to pay in terms of players, but it’s gotta hurt to acquire a player like Hamels in a trade with the Phillies eating $30M.
Okay, nevermind then, lol.
Exactly. Pittsburgh would be paying Hamels 60% of what comparable pitchers would be getting. It would cost that much more to get a guy like Hamels at that price tag.
If I were the Pirates, I’d replace Glasnow with Taillon+Heredia and do that in a heartbeat, provided we are trading Bell and not Polanco. Losing Bell and Jones would really hurt, along with the other guys, but four years of a rotation anchored by Hamels and Cole (and eventually Glasnow) plus Morton and Kingham would would be great.
However, that would probably mean that Martin is gone, thus weakening the rotation overall. So no thanks.
I thought the Pirates matched up well with Tampa for Price. However I think Hamels would give the Pirates the ability to have a front of the rotation big contract pitcher without getting tied into 8 years or 9 years. The Pirates OF is obviously blocked up. It would be Glasnow as the center piece though. Josh Bell + some smaller pieces
Looking at value,good trade. Hamels has a good not great contract, that represents only about a 3-5m per year savings on what you can get in the FA market. Bell as a mid 30ies ranked prosepct is worth about 30m in vlaue, kingham as a slightly lesser prospect in the 10m range. The cash plus the 10ish mil in value from the contract is about equal to the value of the prospects.
the problem- amaro does not think like the rest of baseball. he refused to accept any of the actual statistics used, or apply any economic forecasters
Can the phillies put RAJ on waivers :P.
They could, but he would go unclaimed like Papelbon.
he’d clear waivers for sure
Just Designate him for assignment
Mentally Unable to Perform List
Why would Hamels have the right to veto a trade to a team that’s not on his no-trade-list? He doesn’t have 10 and 5 rights.
Hamels debuted in 2006 so he hasn’t reached the 10 and 5 plateau yet.
The author made a typo (that everyone else before you seemed to understand). The 9 teams listed are the teams left off of his 20 team NTC.
Thank you, that’s what I thought.
Here is an idea….if in the unlikely event Boston claimed him…How about Garin Ceccini, Webster and Philly only pays ,15 -20 mill? ……Or just put him on irrevocable waivers and award the Sox his contract.
Nope. The Phillies don’t need the salary relief. They need potential impact players, particularly ones close to the big leagues.
People can’t seem to understand this… Amaro is under no pressure to shed salary – so why would the Phillies take a bunch of slop for the 1 asset they have on the team?
because its the baseball nature for everyone to over value their own teams prospects. Im sure the Royals fans wouldve loved to have dealt Mike Moustakas. For every Mike Trout theres 5 Brandon Woods. The new moneyball is the overvaluing of a singular prospect. A farm system isnt built around 1 player. Id say out of the Cubs system 2/3rds will fail to even touch their ceilings. Cubs fans dont realize this. They are the same ones 2 years ago thinking Brett Jackson was the next Jacoby Ellsbury
Garin’s already been up and Webster is pitching Friday. Garin can drive the ball to all fields, has above avg power, good plate discipline and is a solid defender. Webster can light up radar guns, has deceptive plus change, good curve and slider. He has best raw stuff in system, just needs to work on his control. Webster is number 5 and Ceccini is number 14 prospect.
Right, but I think you missed my point. The Phillies don’t need to trade Hamels and they’re not gonna do it purely for salary relief with a couple good prospects coming back. With 4+ years of control at a known price, probably below market value in a year or 2, it’s gonna take a significant haul to get Hamels.
So, it sounds your saying that you keep paying his contract, cuz u don’t need salary relief,right? Ok, then add 3 prospects not named Owens or Swihart to Garin and Webster or 2 MLers like Nava or Buccholz
What I’m saying is the Phillies don’t need to trade Hamels because they have no problems making payroll. They’ll need to be blown away with an offer to move him. There’s no reason to accept anything less than 3-4 top prospects for a player of his caliber with 4+ years of a market value contract, possibly below. It’s gotta be a return similar to what the Rays got for James Shields when they got #1 overall prospect Wil Myers and then some.
I proposed potentially 5 of top 20 …..more than fair. U want the number one prospect, talk to the Twins
You’re offering quantity over quality. If top prospects like Owens and Swihart aren’t involved then there’s no reason to trade Hamels to the Red Sox. It’s gotta be a deal the Phillies would be foolish to walk away from since they’re not in a situation where they have to deal Hamels.
Not for Hamels…maybe for Felix H or Stanton.
Consider for a moment what the Rays got from the Royals for 2-years James Shields and swing-man Wade Davis. A top 5 prospect (Wil Myers), top 75 (Jake Odorizzi), fringe top 100 (Mike Montomgery) and a high potential low-level prospect (Patrick Leonard). That’s was for 2 seasons of both, though Davis has some pricey options (3-years $25M) now that he’s been relegated to the bullpen.
Knowing that, getting Cole Hamels for 4-5 years through age 34-35 isn’t worth even a single top 50 prospect? Seriously…
Cite a trade everyone, even when it was made, scrached their heads about. That is not the market. That is/was one of the single biggest overpayments in basball. The price trade is a much better comparison of the market.
Except 14 months of Price is worth far less than 5 years of Hamels.
How is the Price trade a better comparison when “everyone, even when it was made, scratched their heads about” it?
The Giants would probably block Hamels from the Dodgers. I don’t think he gets any further that that.
I’d be surprised if he got that far. The Cubs probably placed a claim on him knowing they’ve got the pieces to acquire him and now that they’re top prospects are starting to show up on the big league roster they could use a top of the rotation arm to lead them the next 4-5 years.
bradley jr and webster also middlebrooks all three would close a deal
For Hamels?
Middlebrooks is of no use for Phillies. Bradley, Owens, and Betts is more like it. Steep? Yes. But Phillies are not trading him away without a huge return. This is why I don’t think a Hamels deal happens. It’s just too much for a team like Red Sox or Dodgers to do.
no it wouldnt
no but at least 2 of them and a pick also the sox would eat all of the salary for hamels
money off the book counts a lot to and why not Middlebrooks has the power to play first base or third base
Money off the books means nothing to Phillies unless it’s Ryan Howard’s. What are they going to do with Hamels money? Sign Lester for 50 million more than what’s left on Coles deal? Makes no sense.
The Phillies have a $25M/year road block at 1B. They also have a younger 3B (Cody Asche) producing more than Middlebrooks right now and one of the top 3B prospects in baseball (Maikel Franco) waiting at AAA, and he can also play 1B. Middlebrooks is a player they don’t need or have a spot for.
The Phillies are under no pressure to dump salary. None at all. Amaro won’t part with Hamels for less than your team’s three top prospects plus take on his entire contract. That’s what he was asking before the July 31 deadline. No deal will be done.
Yeah, I agree, he is the worst gm in baseball by a wide margin.
Anyone know if Utley or Rollins got claimed?
I know that this is crazy, but if the Dodgers won the claim and were willing to swap Carl Crawford, Andre Ethier, and Adrian Gonzalez for Cole Hamels, Ryan Howard, and Jonathan Papelbon, would the Phillies agree to that deal?
I doubt it. Doesn’t do them any good.
Are you assuming that Crawford and Ethier would continue to hit as poorly in the Phillies bandbox as they do in Chavez Ravine? If so, then that makes sense. But is it possible that they could benefit from a change of scenery and improve the Phillies at 3 positions?
It would probably marginally improve the line-up. It also locks them into 3 bad contracts with more than $60M in AAV from 2015-’17 when they could be out from under 2 bad contracts (Howard and Papelbon) sooner, as soon as after ’15 in Papelbon’s case.
I’d rather keep Hamels and trade him for young big league players and/or prospects than take on 3 declining players in their mid-30’s making $20M+/year. Especially since trading Hamels will severely cripple the rotation to the point where David Buchanan could be the 2015 opening day SP.
Highly unlikely. We’re trading 1 great, 1 average, and 1 poor player (on 3 expensive contracts) for 1 good and 2 poor players (on 3 expensive contracts).
And if you are looking at it from purely a money standpoint, the Phillies get out of 9 years and $200 M (with the bulk of that money/commitment coming from the best player in the deal) and take on 10 years and $203 M (after this season). So they are saving no real money – and making their current team worse, all while not even improving their system.
If you assume that Crawford and Ethier would continue to hit as poorly in the Phillies bandbox as they do in Chavez Ravine, then that makes sense. But is it possible that they could benefit from a change of scenery and improve the Phillies at 3 positions?
I’m actually assuming that players in their mid-30s aren’t going to significantly improve – no matter what park they move to/from.
Fair enough.
and the park factor is included in many of the advanced metrics that still think that Crawford and Ethier are washed up
I agree with Olney. I kind of thought they should have gone after Price if they could have locked him up. They can go young on offense but need to grab a high priced arm or 2 and lock them up. I’d almost bet they inquired about Price and Tampa just wanted too much in return. Price would be the perfect piece given his age but he also may be reluctant to sign long term with the Cubs as he grew up in Missouri as a Cardinals fan. I’m kind of psyched to see this whole club put together with the glut of Position players on the way. Not a Cubs fan or a Theo fan but their young players are exciting.
Pretty sure Price didn’t grow up in Missouri. Thought he grew up in Tennessee and liked the Atlanta Braves.
My bad, you are correct. I got confused with all the trade rumors of him maybe going to St. Louis.
Pirates make too much sense for Byrd, although I could easily see the Reds being that claiming team to block him from Pittsburgh
Padres new gm trying to make a splash in first week ?
Word out of Philly is that the Cubs were the lone team to put a claim on Hamels. Theo, PLEASE make this happen.
47 hours probably isn’t enough time to get a deal like that done, but it could definitely lay the groundwork for an off-season trade if Hamels is willing to waive his NTC.
The Phillies better turn away from this with two of either:
Baez, Bryant, Russell, Johnson, Soler, Alacantra, Jimenez.
The Cubs want Cole Hamels legitimately, and Cole Hamels wants to go to the Cubs legitimately. I read a report out yesterday that the Cubs were one of his landing spots in his contract year, so this report of them claiming him are NOT bogus.
On the other hand, we need a SS prospect out of this and luckily CHN is loaded with them. I would like to see us grab Pierce Johnson as well since he could end up being an Ace or a middle of the rotation guy that we desperately need. I also put Soler and Jimenez up there because it’s not out of the question to see us grab a OF prospect after letting Byrd go.
The Phils have a great young SS already…. JP Crawford… they are not in need of SS or Inf help… they need OF BAD
Here’s the thing: The Cubs don’t HAVE to have Cole Hammels. They can wait until the off season and go get Jon Lester and all it will cost them is money. They aren’t going to trade ANY of Baez, Bryant, Russell, Soler or Alcantra and Pierce Johnson is a stretch.
I could see a deal being done IF the Phillies take Edwin Jackson and his contract, Mike Olt, Junior Lake and a lower level pitcher: think Corey Black or Ivan Pineyro (guys they got in trades for Alfonso Soriano and Scott Hariston.)
Frankly, it makes no sense for the Phillies to only negotiate with one team anyway. Amaro will pull Hammels back and take offers in the offseason when he can negotiate with 29 teams.
and will get even less in the off season.
Good Luck.
Give one reason why the Phillies would get less in the off-season. At this point you are just trolling.
For all the Cubs fans saying it’s insane for us Phillies fans to want Russell or any top prospects are being absolutely ridiculous when they suggest offers like that.
That’s an absolute insult.
Hey take one of our bad contracts plus a failed 3B and a mediocre OF plus a scrub. Take it!
You can ask for whatever you like BUT reality is the Cubs aren’t going to back up the truck for Hammels or anyone else when they can sign Lester or Shields or Scherzer in the off season and only surrender money.
Since the Phillies can’t negotiate with other teams due to the waiver claim why should the Cubs offer Russell or anyone else? You can “want” Russell and anyone else, but reality must set in. THEY ARE NOT COMING!!!!!
I also did not at anytime “suggest” the Phillies take that offer-simply the Cubs should not give away their best young pieces when there is no current market for Hammels (due to the waiver claim) and the ability for the team to add pitching via free agency in the off season.
Besides, Ruben Amaro can’t bring himself to breaking up his sub 500 team, so Hammels will stay put like all the rest.
The issue is that Hamels’ contract won’t force you to pay him $25MM/year when he’s turning 37. He also has been better than Scherzer and Shields, and arguably equivalent to Lester (really he’s been closer to equivalent to Price, but there’s an argument to be made). He’s also significantly more consistent.
This is also the lowest Hamels’ value will be in the foreseeable future because of the waiver claim. Hamels would likely be worth more in the off-season, when everybody has the option to trade for him.
I’m not sure you’re getting this. Yes, the Cubs don’t have to offer the Phillies anything but then they won’t get Hamels (one M). Yes, the Cubs are the team the Phillies have to work with at this moment but the Phillies don’t have to move him.
It just seems as though Cubs fans are thinking the Cubs can offer crumbs because they won the claim.
If the Cubs want to pay for the FA, then go right ahead but if they really want Hamels then this would be the best time to make a move. During the off season the Phillies don’t have to just work with the Cubs anymore so they could conceivably get better offers that what Cubs fans ‘think’ they should offer.
I really just can’t fathom how Cubs fans don’t think Hamels is worth a top 5 prospect, especially one that they got for a lesser, far lesser, pitcher.
I honestly can’t wrap my head around it. And even as a Phillies fan I’m not siting here saying I want Bryant, Soler, Russell +++. No, I’d be fine with a package of 3-4 players headlined by Russell. That’s not far fetched and it’s honestly something that could/should get it done.
Because ETOITP, and that goes doubly for a team with a good farm that hasn’t been competitive in a while. A number of Pirates fans act the same way, though they’re starting to come around because they realize McCutcheon won’t be the guy he is forever.
Phillies are in no position to demand anything from the Cubs. Cubs will keep their elite prospects and offer the Phillies some crumbs.
And the Phillies are in no position to be forced to move Hamels to one team. Wait till the offseason where all his suitors are available.
The Phillies have not changed their stance on trading Cole Hamels since it became evident they were trying to move him. The Cubs and Phillies are a match-made-in-heaven. They can part ways with two top prospects for Hamels, still have enough quality guys left over, and be able to afford his contract. The reason the Phillies didn’t get a deal done with L.A is because it is apparent RAJ and co do NOT want to have to pay off a team to take on his contract. I believe the Cubs really want Hamels badly and don’t want the opportunity to slip away. I believe the Cubs will get this deal done, they know they have enough pieces to get this deal done and not take a huge hit. Though, the Phillies need to ease up their stance. While it would be great to receive three top guys for our best player, the Rays didn’t get that for David Price.
Hamels with 4-5 years of a known contract is more valuable than 14-months of David Price at somewhere around $25M. I agree 3 top prospects is too much, unless it’s just 3 top prospects. Even then that’s a tall order. Given the failure rate of prospects, that’s also too risky for the Phillies. They need both quality and quantity. 2 top 100 (Russell and Soler) plus McKinney and Tseng probably gets it done.
Russell and Soler, in your dreams. Are you going to trade for Kershaw and Trout while you are at it?
Have you forgotten what the Royals gave up for just 2 years of James Shields?
Another “Dreamer”….Russell, Soler, McKinney & Tseng…..well at least the Philles fans know the Cubs system of talent…….something that many other team GM’s envy about the Cubs these days.
The Cubs are rebuilding. They don’t have to make mid season trades to get them to the playoffs. They can sign a free agent pitcher and no give up no prospects or they can trade a hitting prospect for a starting pitching prospect.
same results as was seen before July 31st dead line……no takers.
Just because the Phillies didn’t get a deal done @ the deadline does not mean there was “no takers”. Ruben tried to drive up the asking price because of the fact it was the deadline. None of the teams interested wanted to take on his contract without the Phillies paying them off a good enough chunk of the salary. Cole would be in L.A right now if the Dodgers were willing enough to take that contract.
Edit: we may even see him in L.A after seasons end if the Cubs don’t pull the trigger on the Phillies package. Greinke can be exercised for 2015.
Philadelphia can pull Hamels back off of the waiver wire…..but get nothing if Hamels is put out on waiver wire again…………so enjoy your rebuilding program Philadelphia…..you have a bunch over paid players that no one wants….no farm system…….maybe it is time to get a new GM in Philadelphia!
If we can get Javier Baez, the Phillies will part ways with Hamels.
Baez is on 40 man roster, has to clear waivers…which won’t happen.
PTBNL
Won’t happen….not on the trade table…btw, Baez just hit another HR
I didn’t say it would happen, but it could…just very unlikely
PTBNL cannot have have played in the same league as the team they are being traded to. Therefore no current Cubs player can be traded to the Phillies as PTBNLs.
Great post. Absolutely phenomenal insight. Big bad johnny indeed.
its like you think hes a free agent
Baez….3 HRs in three games……….will take three Hamels to trade for Baez.
Cubs aren’t getting Hamels. They don’t make sense as a trade partner.
Nothing is making sense in Philadelphia these days with their FO.
So you believe he’s going to have a 162 HR season next year, I assume?
Phillies are best off waiting till the winter when teams see Jon Lester, Max Scherzer and James Shields asking for 9 years and teams willing to do it.
Phillies are old
Phillies are over paid
Phillies players are not Superstars anymore
Phillies GM has no clue about baseball
Phillies wanted Yankees top prospect hitter for Marlon Byrd……Marlon Byrd?…..Really?……Marlon Byrd?
Phillies have no farm system
Phillies have no leadership on the field
Phillies FO do not know which direction to go
Best news for Phillies fans………Eagles season starts in a few weeks.
Despite all those things, big bad johnny is still obsessed with talking about the Phillies.
I could talk about the Nationals or Orioles if you wish……but this article is about the Phillies.
I’d be more than happy if you talked about the Nationals or Orioles. Just pointing out that you seem to be a little obsessed with a team (4 of the last 5 “original” comments to start the thread) considering how bad of a state the entire organization is in (by your words).
Their organization is looking towards a massive rebuild and the price that they are asking for their aging stars is to high. Prospect values are at an all time high and their GM wanted a top 100 prospect for Marlon Byrd. They in affect are asking for what the Cubs got when they traded both Samardzija and Hammel plus additional filler. That is an high price even though Hamels is a better pitcher then Samardzija.
why are the cubs wasting time. they can not ever compete.
poor fans.