Talks of a rumored deal that would have sent B.J. Upton to the Cubs (perhaps along with a pitcher or cash) in exchange for Edwin Jackson have been circulating over the past couple weeks, and David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that it could be because the Braves would like to rekindle those talks in the offseason.
It won’t be easy to trade Upton and the remaining $47MM on his contract, of course, but the Braves could be willing to sweeten the deal by including three years of Mike Minor or by including a significant amount of cash to help offset Upton’s salary. The Braves are not, however, interested in including both Minor and cash in order to facilitate a trade. Regardless of how the ties are severed, O’Brien feels that it is a fait accompli that the elder Upton is dealt by next Spring Training. (Of course, many people felt the same about Dan Uggla, who lingered on Atlanta’s roster well into the summer.)
Minor has struggled for much of the season after opening the year on the disabled list, pitching to a 4.90 ERA with 8.0 K/9, 2.7 BB/9 and a 39.3 percent ground-ball rate. Minor’s main problem has been an increased home run rate which, paired with an uptick in his walks, has led to a HR/9 rate of 1.51 — fifth-worst among pitchers with at least 110 innings thrown in 2014. Nonetheless, three years of a pitcher who posted a 3.72 ERA in 466 2/3 innings from 2011-13 (including a stellar 3.21 mark in 204 2/3 innings last year) would have value to pitching-hungry teams.
Perhaps more interesting is the fact that O’Brien also feels there’s “at least a pretty good chance” that Gattis could be traded in the coming offseason. While Atlanta loves Gattis’ bat, it is less enamored with his defensive prowess and isn’t certain how long his 250-pound frame can hold up at the position. Meanwhile, waiting in the wings is top prospect Christian Bethancourt, who is known for his strong arm and receiving skills.
As O’Brien points out, Gattis would make for a nice trade target for an American League club, given the fact that he could split time between DH and catcher (and perhaps the outfield on occasion). The 28-year-old is hitting a hefty .276/.331/.520 with 20 homers in 353 plate appearances this season, quieting some skeptics (myself included) who felt that his hot start in 2013 may not have been sustainable.
Gattis will finish the season with exactly two years of Major League service, meaning that a club could potentially gain four years of team control over a 20-30 homer bat, and that would certainly have value on the trade market, especially given the dearth of starting-caliber catchers on the free agent market. Beyond Russell Martin, teams looking for catching help will be left looking at A.J. Pierzynski and Geovany Soto in the second tier of free agent backstops.
Ugh, I really think Frank Wren/the Braves really just like having an awful offense. There’s no other reason why they would replace Evan Gattis with Christian Bethancourt. The smart thing would be to start Gattis and either trade Bethancourt or use him as a defensive replacement.
Couldn’t be that they don’t want to have an awful defense?
I will worry about the Braves’ defense when it is one of the worst in baseball like their offense. Gattis’s bat MORE than makes up for any shortcomings with his defense.
Exactly. I don’t think he should be going anywhere. They need to keep him.
With Gattis, you have to worry about pitching and defense.
Also, fine, you would make a different decision. The idea clearly isn’t that they want an awful offense. It’s that they value defense over offense at catcher, as most teams do.
Well, his fielding % as a catcher this year is .993, which is better than league average, .992. He has 4 .passed balls this year. The only area where he could improve his defense is runners caught stealing. His percentage is .22%, which is below average. So, his defense is adequate for a big league catcher with his bat. Watching the Braves’ offense this year struggle…yeah, they need his bat in the lineup. Consider that his profile as a catcher is not unlike a guy named Mike, who did pretty well for several years.
Fielding percentage? Are people still really naive enough to think that is in anyway a good judge of defensive ability?
He’s also ranked as among the worst pitch framers in the league. The Braves management also seems concerned about his ability to call a game and his ability to block the plate (which usually doesn’t show up as a passed ball). If you’re talking about Piazza — that’s an okay comparison (though Piazza was a better hitter). Pitchers, however, liked working with Piazza and he was above-average at framing pitches). And yet, still, he was consistently an awful defensive catcher who cost his team about a win a year vs. a replacement level catcher.
Betancourt will do what Gattis did and more.
Bethancourt cant hit, so no.
I think it would be foolish to get rid of him as well. I’m not saying it would have been easy or necessarily even possible to resign McCann, but we didn’t even make an attempt because we were so sold on Gattis as our future at catcher. Then turn around and dump him a year later for a no bat all glove unproven rookie, especially when our offense is this anemic? Pass.
Gattis needs to be in left, heyward in center, j upton in right and bethancourt behind the plate. Then somebody needs to remind these guys that homeruns dont win a lot of games if you can’t get on base. 150+ strikeouts a season is unacceptable for anyone, regardless of other numbers.
seems like b.j struggled when he started in a national league club. he needs to be an al player
You must not have seen much of him in TB. Granted, maybe not as horrid as he’s been in Atl, but he was no stud in TB, either.
BJ Upton was a top 10 CF while playing for the Rays. His last 3 seasons in TB, he was top 10 among CF in HR(6th), SB(4th), R(9th), RBI(7th), wRC+(9th) and fWAR(9th). He has been a terrible player since going to the Braves, but he was an above average MLB CF with the Rays before he fell apart.
Does that really make sense to you?
Trading Gattis in favor of Betancourt would be a HUGE step backward. As a Mets fan, I can only hope the Braves are that foolish.
Would hate to see the Braves trade gattis but it would make a lot of sense to do so, It’ll really do them if they make the BJ Upton trade work somehow someway
Considering what Arizona gave for Trumbo, basically Skaggs and Eaton, the Braves should be able to get a good haul for Gattis. He currently has more positional versatility and a better hit tool.
definitely agreed
my dodgers could use a catcher, just platoon him and AJ since AJ cant hit but he good with the pitchers.
Gattis and Ellis are both righties and Ellis isn’t that great defensively either. I think it’s more likely LA goes for Russell Martin and make Ellis Kershaw’s personal catcher/back-up to martin/pitching staff coach. Ellis is 33 and only played 115 games last year and 67 so far this year. Factor in his OPS+ of 60, CS% of 22, and poor pitch framing and I can’t see LA standing pat this off-season at catcher.
gattis for joc peterson
The Dodgers kept Pederson off the table for Lester and Price so they could hurt their already weak up the middle defense even more. Not going to happen.
Move Gattis to left. Heyward to center. Justin to right. Bethancourt needs to catch. Gattis is not good in left but he is ok. Look at Holliday with Stl
Why would the Cubs make this trade? Next years outfield will be Coghlan, Alcantara, Soler (assuming they don’t sign someone better than Coghlan). On top of that, they have OF talent in the minors in Almora, McKinney, Schwarber, and possibly Bryant.
If Theo/Jed do anything with Edwin, it should be granting him his release.
I ask myself that same question. I know nothing about BJ, he could be a “classy veteran” to help teach the kids and maybe they’d rather have a no hit lump the bench than a no pitch lump in the bullpen? I know it was mentioned that they would seek some veteran leadership this offseason. I also wouldn’t be surprised if it was just media speculation of trying to marry two teams with their own albatross’. And that Jed and Theo have never even entertained this thought.
He had a monster year in 07 and has been in a free fall ever since. He really has no place on an MLB roster anymore.
He will not stay with Cubs long he probably will end up back in the AL. Until that contract is resolved. NBA teams do it all the time. It’s over for Bj upton unless he catch fire or reconstructed his swing.
Or if he gets the right prescription.
Rick Hahn should go get Gattis and have him split time between C and DH
Yup…we definitely need to look at Gattis
Who would you trade for him? There is no one on your farm that the braves would need. After Rondon (who couldn’t be traded) and Anderson (who the braves don’t need) your farm is pretty thin. There is no real match for Ramirez. Eaton would be nice but is injury prone and other than Sale, no one in your rotation would really be an upgrade over what they have.
You must not know the W.Sox farm system/org. very well. It’s not great but it is improving. Anyway, Jose Quintana would most likely interest the Braves I think. I could see a deal where Gattis & Minor come to the Sox for Quintana, Matt Davidson, and Marcus Semien. Davidson & Semien both have struggled a bit this year, but are still very good prospects, and Quintana off the Sox could be a 15-18 game winner for years. Truthfully, as a Sox fan, Gattis represents more of the same, the same type of plodding power hitting positionless player they seem to love so much. He’s the guy Rick Hahn was talking about at the trade deadline I bet. I hope the Sox stay away.
Minors issue stems from the fact that he is a two pitch pitcher on most nights. He is unable to control his slider enough to throw it for strikes. This leads hitters to lay off it. They only need to gear up for a fastball or change. It is a rare game when he throws enough strikes with his slider to get a hitter to chase. When that happens he is dangerous, but that is maybe one out of three or four starts for him.
ok, rate this trade proposal: Minor, BJ, and Gattis for the Rangers Choo and Beltre.
Rangers fans will say “No”…..
Rangers would break their phone hanging it up so hard
Beltran is getting up there in age. The Braves need a good prospect for the Future a Center Fielder to play with jup and Heyward.
How about Profar if you include Heyward instead of BJ?
Lol what? So the Braves create another issue? Who plays right now? Not profar… and the Braves are still stuck with BJ Upton… the whole point of the trade in the first place
Braves can’t and won’t assume the Choo contract. If Gattis is traded, it’s got to be for young mlb ready talent that’s cost controlled.
trout. think about it.
Uh, no. I’m sure hoping that was sarcasm.
Besides, Trout isn’t as cheap since he signed that extension.
Braves fans might not say no, but management definitely would. No way the Braves can afford to pay Choo and Beltre, and with no DH in the NL they can’t afford to have Chris Johnson sitting on the bench behind Beltre. Finances come nowhere close to lining up.
I could see CJ’s future in left field. His defense at 3rd has always been shoddy.
He would be worse than Gattis in left field.
I’ve, admittedly, never watched Johnson play LF. But how can this be possible?
Gerald Laird beat Chris Johnson in a foot race that they bet on last year, that is how haha.
CJ in left field? That’s a power position. He does not produce enough to play third or left field. Corner infield and outfield positions need to be power hitters that knock in runs. CJ deal was a bad idea.
Beltre is getting old and Choo’s contract is pretty bleh too.
Does Wren’s plans include trying to trick teams into thinking they’re getting Justin instead? If not, then it’s a waste of time.
No wonder the Cubs were excited about the prospect of trading Edwin Jackson for Upton + cash.
Gattis would likely do better in the AL, where he could regularly DH. Bethancourt is clearly the preferred catcher option going forward, he has a chance at being the next defensive wizard behind the plate.
A radical idea is moving Heyward to centerfield and letting Gattis play one of the outfield corners next year.
It’d be a crime to have Heyward in center, but yeah I would like to see how Gattis could do in an OF corner spot with a training camp of practice at the position under his belt. He was horrible when they just threw him in there because of the McCann/Freeman log jam at C/1B.
He’s horribly because hes a stocky catcher. Hes too big and slow to play outfield.
Radical because no one really thinks Gattis can cut it as an everyday OF.
It takes less athleticism/arm strength/pretty much everything than you think to be an average left fielder. Remember how Braun looked like he didn’t have a clue what was going on at third and then they moved him to left and he turned into a good defender? I think with some conditioning and training Gattis wouldn’t be a total train wreck out there, at least. I think it’s worth at least an offseason experiment if the opportunity arises.
You just really compared a two-time 30-30 guy with Evan Gattis in terms of the athletic ability required to switch positions to LF?
Interesting choice.
My point was, LF is widely regarded as the least valuable position defensively. Which is how a player like Braun went from a sub .900 fielding year at third to putting up gold glove-type numbers in left. It is just an example.
A two time 30-30 guy on peds
That matters for our purposes… how?
Because his stats are inflated a much better infield to left transition would be Alex Gordon.
Again with the comparisons to people that are actually athletic. Whether those athletic abilities were the result of PEDs is irrelevant, unless you’re suggesting that Gattis will be taking PEDs in order to help him turn into the athlete that Ryan Braun is.
You’re just messing with me, now, right?
Obviously, you can hide a bat in LF. But can we please stop comparing Evan Gattis to guys that can cover ground?
If we’re going to say “well, player A was a horrible fielder at his original position and he successfully made the switch to LF and subsequently became a good defender”, let’s pick a player that Gattis might actually be comparable to.
Right now, the comp is akin to saying that Ron Brown was an Olympian and became an NFL WR, so Michelle Kwan should be able to do the same thing.
Yes, LF is really simple to play. If you can move your feet. Braun can. Gordon can. Gattis… is not that guy.
Can he do it? Maybe. Probably not all that well. But maybe. But not like those other guys mentioned…
By radical do you mean exactly what they did at the end of last year?
Minor is an interesting pot-sweetener to the proposed deal, but I’m still not sure it gets it done. The Cubs have guys who can probably turn in similar or better performances in Hendricks, Wada, Wood and Turner, and they would still be taking on around $40MM of extra salary commitment from the swap. That kind of money for a back-end starter the caliber of which they already have several times over, I can’t imagine that gets it done.
I don’t think “probably” is the right word. Turner could be nothing and Wada isn’t going to magically be a star despite the hot start. Wood is trending down as well.
Wada has been hurt since coming to the ML, he put up these numbers in AAA and after a rough MLB debut he has settled back into being the pitcher he was in Japan. A solid control pitcher who mixes speed and location effectively. Will he be a star? Don’t care, but he can be a productive member for the Cubs rotation next year.
Sure, but I wouldn’t use the word probably for that either.
OK, let’s try this one.
Mike Minor’s incremental value added over Turner/Wada/Wood/Hendricks, if any, is probably not going to be worth the additional $15.5 million per year the Cubs would have to pay BJ Upton to be a below-replacement-value player who should really take up windsurfing or lacrosse because he’s not a baseball player anymore.
I think the word probably fits pretty well into that sentence.
Well, you need 7 or 8 or more starters in a season. But that sounds better than Wada “probably” being a productive member of the rotation.
Trade that I see for Gattis in the AL are Boston (use him behind the plate till Papi retires, then move him to DH), Yankees, Toranto (maybe packaged with BJ), and Clevland (Frazier back to GA?). Not sure if there would be a lot of interest in the NL for him but maybe Pitt would bite.
Toronto has zero use for BJ Upton and cannot afford him anyway. They’ve got Anthony Gose struggling to get playing time already, and he’s basically a dirt cheap BJ Upton at the moment, but with youth and potential on his side.
need to remember this is only Gattis’ first full year at ML catcher. Bethancourt did not impress me when he was up, his framing of pitches was terrible. Bethancourt should bring a decent haul if they trade him instead of Gattis, which is exactly what I would do.
Why not package BJ and Gattis together? Terrible contract + great contract might return some value.
Dayton Moore, go get Mike Minor and Evan Gattis. The Royals are going to lose James Shields. Kauffman Stadium and a great defense are the cures for what ails Minor, and Gattis’s bat at DH (with occasional starts in the OF and backing up Perez at catcher) brings the power that KC needs. Just make sure Gattis is never catching when Greg Holland pitches.
This would be an awful move. Bethancourt is better defensively, but he currently projects to be a handicap with his bat. He has a .680 OPS in AAA and doesn’t get on base much either. It’s alarming that he’s never really hit well at any minor league level.
Until Bethancourt shows he can hit at a major league level, I would prefer not to see us take a 30+ HR potential bat out of our lineup. If the Braves plan on competing next season, they will definitely need Gattis.
Wonder if the Tigers would kick the tires on Upton in a hopeful change of scenery type move? CF has been kind of shaky for them since dealing Jackson, and he might benefit from having less pressure on him in the Detroit lineup than he has in Atlanta.
Why would Atlanta want Edwin Jackson for anything? Even bj Upton got great hits off him. And trade minor after he almost pitched a no hitter for a pitcher that gives up six runs an inning. Is this some kind of joke? And why can’t we put bj on the bench and gattis in ourfield with Bettencourt behind plate?
If it makes you feel better, Cubs fans are no less eager.
Id much rather have E. Jackson as the swingman/mop-up long relief than BJ Upton on the bench. Hell, im not even sure if I’d want him on a minor league contract.
I love Gattis but will have to go as the Braves have many needs and little financial flexibility. I also see Heyward as a possibility to be traded too. The current roster has to be changed if the Braves want to keep up with the Nat’s and the relevant Marlins next season. The roster I expect will look something like this:
1. Peraza 2nd
2. New. CF
3. Freeman 1st
4. J. Upton RF
5. New LF
6. C. Johnson 3rd
7. Bethancourt C
8. Simmons SS
Bench: La Stella, Bonafacio, Yenier Bello, 2 new players
Rotation: Teheran, Woods, Hale, Martin, New pitcher.
Bullpen: Kimbrel, Walden, Venters, Jaime, Buchter, S. Simmons, Varvaro.
Peraza has 42 games in AA, Simmons hit .293/.372/.420 in AA. So
expecting him to step in at the MLB level at leadoff is quite
optimistic. Rasmus, and Melky are the only LF/CF available. Melky has
zero chance at a return. A #2 and #5 hitter are hard to come by.
Bonifacio is a free agent, Bello is nowhere close to MLB ready, and two
new players… No way the Braves go into next year with Hale and Martin
as the #3 & 4 starter. Venters will almost certainly be let go. He
has been shut down for the year. If the team looks like you described,
they won’t be contending with the Mets.
If the Pirates lose Russell Martin, they should make a run at Gattis. They definitely have a deep enough farm system to put a deal together. The Bucs could use him in a rotation behind the plate and at firstbase. Maybe a package of Willy Garcia/Harold Ramirez and a couple pitchers, Adrian Sampson, Luis Heredia, or Cody Dickson.
If the Braves trade Upton to the Cubs for Jackson, who is going to play CF for them? Would they consider swapping Jason Heyward for Brett Gardner? Gardner would play CF, Justin Upton could move back to RF, and Gattis could split time between C and LF. If Carlos Beltran cannot play LF, I would try to send him and A-Rod to the Angels for Josh Hamilton.
Umm, Jason Heyward would play CF…
Is he a better defensive CF than Brett Gardner? I doubt it. If this season is a testament to anything, he may not even be a better hitter than Gardner. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next five years, but I think that both the Braves and the Yankees could be better served by swapping these two players as Gardner and Jacoby Ellsbury are somewhat redundant as are Jason Heyward and Justin Upton. Would an Ellsbury for Upton swap make more sense? I don’t think so, but I would consider it.
What are you basing any of what you are saying on? Heyward has the better career numbers offensively. He’s clearly the better better defensive player right now as well. Not trading a guy heading into his prime for a guy having a career year because of an unsustainable power surge while his legs clearly wear down on him.
How do you figure that Heyward is a better defensive player than Gardner? Gardner is one of the best CFs in MLB. Heyward is an excellent RF, but it is unlikely that he is anywhere near Gardner’s level at CF. Heyward’s OPS has gone down every year since 2010. It does not appear as if he is in the Braves long-term plans or they would have tried to capitalize on the past few mediocre seasons and locked him up to a long-term extension than will undoubtedly be cheaper than what the free market will bear next offseason.
Gardner is locked up for 4-5 more years at a price that could be well under his value if he continues to hit like he has. Unless Atlanta extends Heyward this offseason, swapping him for Gardner makes a lot of sense for both teams. Otherwise, the Yankees can just sign him next offseason, but it will most likely cost them more than if they trade for him and extend him now.
I could see the Rays and Braves matching up in a trade here. When Matt Moore returns next year, the Rays will have 6 viable starters (Moore, Cobb, Archer, Odorizzi, Smyly and Hellickson). My guess is one of those guys will be moved, probably Hellickson. I could see a potential trade involving Gattis and Hellickson with other pieces thrown in. I know the Rays inked Hannigan to a multi-year deal but Molina isn’t getting any younger may find himself on the outside looking in, regardless of his framing ability.
Hellickson and throw in pieces aren’t going to get Gattis. If the Braves are wanting to get rid of Gattis for defensive reasons, the Rays won’t want him.
I get what you’re saying, but Gattis has value to the Rays as a DH with spot starts in the outfield and behind the plate, not based solely on his defensive abilities. Also, I only used Hellickson because he’s the least likely to sign an extension with the Rays (Boras client) making him the most expendable. It could be any of them (except Moore and Archer, who have already signed long term deals, though that doesn’t necessarily make them safe from being traded either). Again, I’m simply suggesting the framework for a deal that is logically sound.
Please don’t trade Gattis. He could turn into 40 homers and hit .300. Right now he is making little adjustments, putting him behind some pitches (I can’t imagine him taking first pitches or third strikes down the middle… he will fix that). And his defense seems good, plus his commitment to improvement is unquestionable.
The issue is poor choices by Wren. He has to eat Uggla’s deal and now BJ. HE knew what he was getting with BJ before the deal. No secrets there. So why did he do it. We would have been much better off using Shafer in Center and keeping the money for an additional bat. So we have many problems. But overall the team has been built poorly.
Just depends on the return and how long we have them under team control. Even if Atlanta gets their best player. If they can keep him for 1or2 seasons than NO. Best would be to keep Gattis if Betancourt can catch play him. Put Gattis on the bench than use him to give the guys some days off. Than when Bethancourt needs rest use Gattis and use him to DH.
When did the Braves move to the American League?
Think he just mispelled PH…
Why can’t Wren just get rid of BJ Upton and leave Evan Gattis alone ?
It _really irritates me to have good news, BJ gone, written with very bad news, trading Evan Gattis.
What’s up with this kind of news being released ? Is this Steve Adams combining two different pieces of news release or did Wren release the items together ?
I agree with 14 Rocks about Wren. It must truly frustrate Fredi Garcia.
Putting together a package including Gattis, Gosselin or La Stella, and BJ for a dominant ace like Yu Darvish or King Felix makes perfect sense to me. We get better defensively by moving Jason to CF, Justin to RF, and Bethancourt to C. Let the remaining 2nd baseman (likely Gosselin) takeover full-time. Call up the young kid everyone wants to hit leadoff and stick him in LF. Best of all, our pitching rotation can boast Darvish/Felix, Teheran, and Wood as our top 3 arms with David Hale and possibly Aaron Harang to round out the rotation. Although I love watching Gatis swing the bat I think having dominant pitching and timely hitting is more important than long homeruns.
lol good luck with that. What a HORRIBLE trade proposal
Well after Santana and Harang leave in free agency and we’re left with 3 pitchers that are coming off their 2nd elbow surgeries in Floyd, Beachy, and Medlen how do you propose we remain competitive with the pitching staffs of LA, WSH, OAK, and DET; teams we’d potentially have to go through to win a ring? Oh yeah, keep relying on Gatis to slug us into first place right?
I’m pretty sure Texas and/or Seattle would decline such a proposal very politely.