THURSDAY: Mets GM Sandy Alderson implied that Colon isn’t likely to be dealt as it stands right now, given the current state of trade talks, tweets Rubin. “I would say right now there’s a lot less going on than some people speculate,” said Alderson.
That quote meshes with a tweet from Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe, who heard from a Dodgers source that it was “doubtful” the team would make a move for Colon with Hyun-jin Ryu nearing a return from the DL.
WEDNESDAY, 10:21pm: The Dodgers seem not to have serious interest in adding Colon, according to a tweet from Peter Gammons of GammonsDaily.com. The lack of pressing demand may make it difficult for the Mets to achieve their asking price on the veteran hurler; the team is “looking for quality prospects in return,” one executive tells Adam Rubin of ESPNNewYork.com (Twitter link).
1:42pm: The Royals haven’t been in touch with the Mets regarding Colon since prior to the trade deadline, a source tells Jon Heyman of CBS Sports (Twitter link).
TUESDAY: Right-hander Bartolo Colon cleared waivers yesterday due to his 2015 salary, and the Mets are receiving “definite interest” in the 41-year-old, Andy Martino of the New York Daily News tweeted last night. By clearing waivers, Colon became eligible to be traded to any team, but interested parties do have some “trepidation” regarding his $11MM salary for 2015. This morning, Martino has a full column published with further details on the interest in Colon.
Martino spoke with one AL executive who expects the Angels, Dodgers and Royals to be the most active teams in the Colon market, though as Martino notes, Kansas City might not be able to afford the aging righty. The Mets were said to be willing to eat about $2MM of the remaining salary on Colon’s contract in late July, and nothing has changed on that front at this time, Martino reports. Were the Mets to absorb that much money and then wait until Aug. 31 to move Colon (thereby minimizing the financial commitment for a rival club), Colon would be owed $10.52MM for September 2014 (plus the playoffs) and the entirety of the 2015 campaign.
The Mets are interested in not only clearing the bulk of Colon’s salary but also in receiving a decent return in terms of prospects, which further complicates the situation. A second executive from a team that is interested in Colon tells Martino, “Everyone is scared of next year,” suggesting that it might be difficult for GM Sandy Alderson to receive a solid prospect or two while simultaneously clearing significant payroll.
im confused process wise…if a team is interested why would they choose not to claim him but make a move now?
If they claimed him, the Mets could just dump Colon and ALL of his salary on a team. Assuming that a team values money more than some of their prospects, that could be something they don’t want. Better just to let him clear and then negotiate.
Just how much salary relief does someone expect the Mets to pick-up? $1m? $2m?
And they’re not going to give that relief for a career AAA player, the Mets would want a ML-quality prospect – that’s worth more than $2m.
If any of those teams wanted him, they should’ve just claimed him, and taken the chance the Mets might “dump” his contract on him – his remaining contract isn’t *that* bad …
It depends on the level of prospect they’re willing to give up. The better the prospect, the more of the salary the Mets will be willing to take on
If a player goes unclaimed, it tells you about his value.
completely false. Darvish, Beltre, Gio, Gardner all passed this year. Studs pass through every year. There are many reasons for a player to go unclaimed.
All four of those could be explained by GMs not wanting to waste their time with negotiations for a deal that won’t happen. I’m sure there’s protocol for how claims have to be dealt with.
If it were irrevocable (DFA outright) waivers it might. But deadline waivers mean nothing more than the teams either A. did not want to risk having the player’s entire salary dumped on them and/or B. did not want to waste time for a player they knew they no chance of acquiring. If not being claimed on revocable waivers reflected a player’s value, probably 80% or better of the players in the league would be deemed worthless.
Marlon Byrd went unclaimed last year
at least half the time it tells you more about their CONTRACT….and how much money is left on their deals..
Contextually it’s bad. Many of the interested teams won’t have 11 million lying around in their budgets. The Dodgers do, but that’s about it.
dodgers are already over the luxury tax. Angels have the space for it. with the blanton contract coming off and wells.
Arte Moreno has recently stated that Angels will NOT go over the luxury tax for 2015…….making Colon, difficult, if not impossible to acquire…..
i totally agree.
I’m not saying it’s sane, just saying that (from everything we’ve heard) no one really wants to pay him that much. Not entirely rational, and I can think of a couple of teams who should have just gone for it, but that’s the only reason I can think of that makes any sense at all and is a fairly common reason (would anyone claim Ryan Howard on waivers? I think not).
Don’t have a concrete answer, but best I can come up with is…if a team claimed him with the intent of blocking a division rival from scooping him up, the Mets could have just said, “he’s yours”, and dumped all his salary on the claiming team. Why both L.A. teams would be interested in trading for him after he cleared though is weird to me, seeing as how they were the last 2 teams in the process.
Because if they claimed him and didn’t work a trade out, the Mets could have just unloaded the entire contract on either of them. The angels would then be put over next seasons luxury tax, which would make it more enticing to trade a prospect for the post season push, and have the mets absorb a portion based on how significant the prospect is in return.
But the Angels have no prospects of use to trade, at most would save a small fraction of the 2015 commitment. If they truly wanted Colon, they should have claimed him and paid the bill. Nevermind that this is a team that lost 2/5 of their 2015 rotation in the past couple of weeks … they clearly don’t see Colon as a legit candidate to fill either of those spots, much less help them down the stretch. Not that I agree with them, but they would be fools to make a trade now if they didn’t think he was worth a claim.
Why do people keep saying the Angels have no prospects? or that their farm is weak…….
In the last 3-4 yrs …the angels farm has produced Trout,Trumbo,Cole Calhoun,Cj Cron…Garret Richards…..JB Shuck, Green…….
Angels “prospects” are pretty good…… so they are already in the big leagues…..
They might not be in the minors anymore……but the Angels have plenty to trade should they see fit…..
And they should *NOT* trade a major leaguer for Colon – my entire point. Certainly not any of those you mentioned, with a possible exception of Green who hits like a middle infielder and fields like a DH. As for minor leaguers, there was much handwringing over the Street trade in which the Angels traded their “top” prospects, none of whom was rated in the Top 90 in all of MLB. This isn’t about who is already in the majors – it’s about who the Mets or anybody else would see as a valuable building block for the future to accept in trade.
Green was acquired from the As for alberto callaspo (spelling)
Jb Shuck was invited to spring training after the astros cut im following the 2012 season.
But other than those to, u are right the angles do have some home grown talent that coukd be traded in the right deal.
Exactly. It’s called not giving away negotiating leverage needlessly.
have more options by waiting until they pass thru waivers sometimes……if Angels/Dodgers claim Colon while in waivers, it is possible they could get stuck paying ALL his money for 2015…….
By waiting…. they can negotiate with Mets to kick in a few million dollars to offset some of his 2015 money…..
and then give the Mets a warm-body medium prospect that they probably didnt have plans for anyway……
I don’t think the other explanations are right. If Colon had been claimed on waviers, the Mets almost certainly would not have traded him. That’s because, if there’s a claim, they have no trade leverage and can’t get much for him. As a practical matter, if you want to trade for him, you need to let him through waivers. That allows the Mets to shop him around and drive the price high enough that they are willing to make a trade.
What? You talk like the Mets control whether or not he gets claimed..
Edit: Okay, I get what you’re trying to say now. No, that is not how it works.
That is definitely how it works. If he’s claimed on waiver, the Mets can trade him now with no leverage — only one team to trade for him. If they wait till the off season, they have up to 29 teams they could trade him to (though, more realistically, it’s 5-7 teams). Baseball people regularly comment that they are not likely to trade a high-value player if he is claimed on waivers.
What you said CAN happen, but teams just don’t do that. If a “good” player like Colon isn’t claimed on August waivers, it almost always means that there weren’t any teams who were comfortable enough potentially having the player’s contract dumped on them to claim him.
I mean, you can keep saying that, but there have been several articles this summer referring to comments from baseball executives that suggests the other explanation.
Link?
I know linking is against the comment section rules, but could you direct me to such articles?
I read that about a couple of specific players, but unfortunately I cannot remember which players it was. I will say, I do not think that Colon was one of them, but I think the rationale applies.
You are both right….
Each situation is different…..in the long past a few teams have had a HUGE contract put onto their team that they were NOT expecting……
Most times the team with the player will NOT trade for NOTHING…..
but they MIGHT(and receiving team responsible for ENTIRE CONTRACT)…..and that is enough to keep some teams from claiming……
Actually, if a team were to claim him, they have a pretty big piece of leverage: $12 million.
Yes, precisely. If a team claims Colon, that team has all the leverage and the Mets have none. So, rather than trade Colon under those circumstances, the Mets can wait till the off season when they have more leverage because more teams can trade for him.
The Mets won’t get much for him in the off season. The big thing hurting his value right now is that contract for next year. Take away the benefits of having him for the play off push and you really aren’t offering much. If the Mets keep a hold of him they won’t be dealing him in the off season. Maybe next year at the trade deadline; assuming next years contract doesn’t prove to be the liability the majority of the teams fear it will be.
it’s all a big game of chicken. teams don’t claim so they can bargain the mets down . As the article says, if they claimed him they would be responsible for all his salary. Now they can try to get the mets to kick in money for them to take Colon. It’s a negotiating tactic. Also will be a good barometer of checking the Mets fiscal health. If the Mets keep Colon or walk away from a bad deal they show they have the money to pay him and others. if they get rid of Bartolo as a salary dump it shows they are still running the organization by rubbing two sticks together
These were revocable waivers. So if a team claimed him, the Mets could have pulled him back rather than part with him for nothing.
yes
I still don’t get the concern for Colon’s contract. For the way Colon has been pitching since he returned to the bigs, 11 million seems like a bargain. Its like teams are looking at other factors other than performance.
he has pitched ok all year. he is solid if you did not know his age he shows he is ageless . ITs not going to be different next year then this year. I say we should get one very good prospect vs two ok prospects.
Yeah, I’m hoping we can trade him by Sunday. In my opinion, the demand would be a tad bit higher now than in the off season(from contending teams of course). I’d be happy with a C prospect for him. He has no future in Queens, other than filling a rotation spot until one of the young guns is ready…Dice-K can do the same thing(when healthy). Strike while the iron is hot,
The demand for him will plummet in the offseason when there’s cheaper options available.
cheaper and better options not that he won’t bring back the same package but we can now strike on something first letting teams consider the rest of other options now a team maybe desperate now to get him and will take on his salary for all Sept and all next year
The only opportunity for the Mets to get something before next June/July/August is right now. He’s going to be 42. MAYBE he could get a team to give him a 1 year $11 million contract in the off season if he was a free agent, but that’s far from a given and that’s definitely not below market value. That will be the contract the new team will essentially be getting next season. To think that a team is going to take that on AND give up a prospect of any real value for the privilege of having a 42 year old pitcher under that kind of contract just isn’t realistic. The Mets then are going to be stuck holding onto him into next season, paying him, and taking on the risk he continues to perform and doesn’t get injured.
If the Mets somehow knew he could perform this well again next season they’d be best served holding on to him, paying the money, and picking up the better prospect next year. That’s a pretty big gamble though. Judging from the reaction from the other teams its a gamble none of the other teams are willing to make.
well said
He is one of the cheaper options!
In the offseason? No he isn’t. You can get starting pitching for much less. Aaron Harang has had a good year on a one million dollar contract. The lower tier options carry similar uncertainty as a 42 year old Colon and have minimal impact on a team’s payroll.
Who thought Harang would have a decent year ? Braves took a chance. You ‘re looking in retrospect. If Harang was such a good, cheaper option, why did the Mets sign Colon and not Harang who they had on the roster the end of last season?
I’m not saying the Mets should have taken Harang over Colon. Only that Colon will not be one of the cheaper options for 2015 as players will similar uncertainty levels go for much less. Teams are very wary of having an 11 million Colon on their team for next year and will seek bargain bin players instead of him.
Despite his age (and salary), Colon is still pretty reliable. Guys like Harang are always a gamble due to recent inconsistancy which is why they’re cheaper. Just curious RevMurph who you think the cheaper options might be?
A 42 year old Colon is a gamble. If teams weren’t worried about that, he would have been traded already. The Mets were the only team who would give Colon a two year deal.
The 2015 list of Free Agents is littered in pitchers who can be had for a fraction of Colon’s salary or on minor league deals. They’re also risky, but none will take up a significant percentage of a team’s FA spending money.
Cheaper but just as questionable, or more expensive and likely not as effective
If a player is cheaper and just as questionable, the team will take that player. 11 million is not chump change for an uncertainly like a 42 year old Colon.
i totally agree next year if Dice K gets a spring invite its just as insurance till maybe Thor is really ready . But i think we got a surplus of pitching you never know.
Dice has performed enough to earn more then a ST invite.
his value is high to us because he can start or bullpen with the kids he may not be more then a 5th or 6st starter. Like Torres is. But you can’t count on him because he has been hurt alot in his MLB career and he has been inconsistant . But if he stays lower cost he will be worth it but honestly we have kids in the pen and kids in the roation so that is why i say Spring invite because we have other options Plus we can take our time with Syndergaard coming up next June
I think you are under valuing what 200 IP does for a rotation. You think TC burns through a BP now; wait
Oh Im not under valuing him at all. I know how important he’s been this year, even to a team thats going no where. All I’m saying is, is that in essence hes just keeping a rotation spot warm for someone else. Theres clearly some sort of demand for him, no matter high or low, theres a demand, so might as well dump him now.
Yes there is a demand, at the same time as a Met fan I think he provides the team a better chance to win in 2015 then Gee
Could be right, could be wrong. Who knows? I dont think well see Gee past 2015 either…just a hunch.
Bullpen stuff. He’s outpitched that but can he get by with it.
its close between those two……but one costs 11 million…… and one costs SIGNIFICANTLY less…….making the decision a no brainer
I will take consistency over cost.
he’s been better than ok.
i say when he wins he is really good when he got losses for most of those games he was ok. I just do not say he will change much . He will give any team quality performance not lights out or bad. He is dependable
It’s all about supply and demand. The supply hasn’t changed much since the trade deadline but the demand certainly, certainly has. You had front line starters go down to injury at the Angels, Tigers, and the Dodgers always needed pitching. Some of these teams are going to possibly be in a such a position of need that they’re going to be willing to surrender plus prospect(s) to fill that need. All this talk about excessive salary for next year, etc., are nonsense. $10M for a guy that can give you 200 IP with a sub 4 ERA is by no means unreasonable. If anything, they should be happy that Colon is signed for one additional year. The Mets might be able to get quite a nice prospect(s) for Colon.
They’re looking also at his age… 42 years old… ancient by starting pitching standards historically. Aside from individuals tied to PED’s you haven’t historically seen many if any pitchers continuing to perform at that high of a level at that age. That makes it a very risky contract. If you look at his performance from ages 31 – 38, you see he could pitch a whole lot worse than he’s doing right now. In 2012 though he really seemed to get everything on track and started pitching well above his historical averages… until he got suspended. I’m not saying he’s still doing that, but his performance then and since might make GM’s think twice too.
no point in me commenting ……you just nailed it right there…..
92 ERA+ is not all that great. he’s a 5th starter making #3 starter money.
a lotta people in mlb still remember his link to PEDS….and think his well will run dry at any minute….
Question i have is can a Player to be named later be from the ML roster?
Could the Mets make a deal with the Angels for CJ Cron and PTBNL and have that wind up being Erick Aybar? We’d get Aybar after the season to complete the deal. Not saying this is what either team wants or is even thinking just wondering. I also wonder if Cron could play LF?
This kind of haul would never happen.
if you can just get Cron take it and run and be happy . I do not think we should be greedy . I think one very good prospect vs so so guys. I do not think we will get anybody off the major league roster for Colon so i doubt Cron is coming back
To be clear, there is NO way Cron is going on a deal like that. Usually the PTBNL is a scrub or a pick of a collection of middle level guys. Everyone can say what they want about “pay for his performance” but how many 42 year old pitchers are there?
Vic Black seems to have been a decent PTBNL, so does Blake Taylor..
in a deal you moving his salary to save it for this offseason if you get anything back in talent consider it a win regardless of how well he pitched liked you said a 41 year old unless your talking about Nolan Ryan are rare you can count on. Hope when we do save x amount they will re do his salary towards somebody this offseason. With the Wilpons your not sure they will re distrubute it next year.
Yes. The PTBNL can be anyone. 9 times out of 10 its a minor leaguer though. Its generally used when a team doesnt know what position they wanna fill, or are unsure of who they want in return(or in August cases, some players need to clear waivers). A lot of times, teams will give their counterpart a list of 5 or 6 guys and say “pick one”.
It is often used for players who were recently drafted and are ineligible to be traded for a certain duration of time.
PTBNL can not be on the 25 man roster when the deal happens.
Correct you are sir. I was thinking more “40 man” than “25 man”
With this situation, it seems like the Mets could basically buy a team’s prospect, no? Say that eating none of the salary would net you a marginal prospect. If they ate the $2MM they say they will, they’d get a better prospect. $5MM? An even better one, no? If you could get a decent prospect by spending a few million in the form of covering some of Colon’s salary, shouldn’t you?
I think there’s a limit to how good the prospect could be and it’s not very high.
Agreed. In all reality it is JUST Bartolo Colon. He’s not Lester or Price, etc. He’s a 17 year vet with his best days behind him whos owed, at the minimum 10 mil. That being said, Sandy has gotten some solid deals done for aging vets. Dealing Beltran, Dickey, Byrd and Buck netted us Wheeler, Syndergaard, d’Arnaud, Black and Hererra. So he has the skills to get it done. In the end, if, IF he gets delt before Sunday I wouldnt expect anything more than a C level, high-A kinda guy
“In the end, if, IF he gets delt before Sunday I wouldnt expect anything more than a C level, high-A kinda guy”
Exactly
This is just hypothetical, but what if the Mets ate all of the salary? A team would get Bartolo Colon for free, salary-wise. What is that worth? If only eating the $2MM can net a prospect, what would spending the other $9MM get from the Mets’ perspective? Not saying that that would ever happen, but I’m just wondering about the money value of prospects.
That’s a tough one. The fact that the Mets do have some leverage here because the demand is higher than it will be moving forward. I think there’s a limit to the type of prospect that would be included in a deal and that it’s not a strictly monetary issue.
Angel fans should be angry their owner doesn’t just spend the money and get Colon. They don’t have the prospects to lower the cost and the way their #5 starter pitched last night they need to go all in.
This is a huge misconception.
The Angels are a lock for the playoffs. Colon or anyone else doesn’t matter. They are fighting for the division win with the A’s but paying $11M for Colon to ever so slightly improve your odds of winning the division is not a sound investment.
Once you are in the playoffs you go with a 4 man rotation (which Colon would not be a part of).
Colon adds depth and I would rather him be on the roster than not. However, it is a pretty big financial commitment for a guy that is guaranteed to only pitch 4 games this year. You do have him for next year, but I don’t see that as an asset. Remember, NOBODY but the Mets were willing to give him a 2 year deal. I can’t imagine the Angels, or anybody else, super excited to pencil him in as a #5 earning $9M next year.
The Angels are likely going to be pretty close to the luxury tax as well without Colon.
Being in a WC playoff and winning the division is most likely will mean winning those games. More likely 5 or 6 games he would pitch. Would your chances be much better than Wade pitching in those games? YES Could another starter go down for the halos? Could happen. I am glad you are so sure the halos don’t need him but being in a 5 game series is better than a 1 game series.
If you are telling me that Colon would guarantee us the division win then sure – spend the money. Unfortunately, that just isn’t the case. He does improve the odds, but it doesn’t move the needle nearly as much as many people assume.
As stated above, if given the simple choice of whether I would want Colon or not want Colon the obvious answer is that I would want him. Unfortunately, we aren’t having this discussion in a vacuum. There are significant finances at stake with a guaranteed year being handed to a 42 year old.
The playoff window is so small sometimes you must go for it. that is what Beane is doing. The M’s and Astros are getting much better so there will be a shift at the top of the division so go for it now.
I agree with your assessment 100%. However, with Richards out, do we really have the “ace” of staff that a one game playoff makes use of?
I’m in NO way saying that Colon is that ace, but he helps us push for the division, which I think should still be the goal instead of a 50/50 playoff game.
That’s assuming an ace like Felix or Scherzer would even be available on that day. Plus, the Angels have had much success against frontline starting pitchers in 2013. And a number of those games were started by Matt Shoemaker. It’s easy to say losing GR means they lost their ace, but Shoemaker has slowly been proving an ability to compete against some of the best and go 8 innings from time to time as well.
Definitely agree on Shoemaker, who’s been a revelation, I guess the main point I was trying to make was that we need proven depth in a fight for the division, and shouldn’t necessarily just ride this to a one game WC playoff. I don’t know that Colon’s even “the answer”, I just think we’re pretty thin up front and any other concerns means both LeBlanc AND Randy Wolfe are likely in the mix. I’d much rather have Colon than either of them.
The Angels are a lock for the playoffs, but it’s a pretty important matter whether they have to play the one-game playoff.
The Angels have a great major league team, but a horrendous farm system, and a lot of money tied up in veteran contracts. In other words, they’re good enough to win the world series, but they won’t be for long.
Having such a good team in 2014 and then getting bounced in a single, fluky one-game playoff would be a real shame.
Why won’t they be good enough for a World Series for long? They have a lot of control over their 25 man roster, which is a very good team already. Plus they have the money to get more starting pitching in the offseason. They’ll also have Street next season and can continue fortifying their bullpen. The Angels have a solid core of those veterans you spoke of and it’s very likely they’ll take the same approach they did this past offseason and just continue adding depth. You don’t always need a good farm system for that. That’s just one of several approaches. Plus, the Angels still continue to bring up productive young players despite their so-called weak farm system. So I wouldn’t underestimate them the way they were underestimated going into this season.
Lots of assumptions there.
I wonder if the fact that he wasn’t claimed gives a clue as to who’s interested. The Pirates, for one, could use rotation help, both this year and next, but might not want to limit their offseason moves by tying up $11m. Maybe they can talk the Mets into covering half in exchange for a second-tier prospect.
Absolutely cannot believe he cleared waivers. If he ends up on Angels, fans of other AL contenders should be furious. ….
Nobody wants to pay him that much for next season. Now they must trade back prospects for the Mets to send over money.
I would gladly take Cam Bedrosian. He would make a great bullpen guy.
C.J Cron would be excellent, however that would require moving Duda,or Cron to OF,and that could be scary
Cam Bedrosian + JB Shuck for Bartolo?
The issue is that not good enough a package to get the Mets to pay part of Colon’s salary and Arte is adamant about not crossing the luxury tax line.
Fair, but lets say Arte does do it. Would that get it done?
Honestly it depends how badly the Mets want to shed Colon’s salary. Bedrosian has been a less than impressive reliever this year and JB Shuck has never been anything amazing.
I think Colon is a perfect fit for the Angels.
I actually think he fits the Royals best, this season and next
Colon, Guthrie, and Vargas do not belong in the same rotation.
Why not, they can all reminisce about the 80’s.
I shouldn’t be so down on Vargas, though his ERA is looking a lot better than it should be. He’s doing just what Chen did last year.
They have nothing to move for him, though
and once again it is late August and this is the “highlighted” news of another failed season for the Mets and their fans….
Mets……Jets……..Nets……..Giants…….Rangers….Islanders…….Knicks…………
The Ranger’s gave us a nice dance…..
I wonder what the Mets want and what teams are willing to give up. I see some here think the Mets can get guys off of the MLB roster of potential trade partners, I doubt that. I’m thinking Mets would settle for a B list prospect or 2 while teams would be comfortable giving up 2 C grade guys. The Dodgers offering Joey Curletta and Zachary Bird, two 20 year old, 6’4 guys who haven’t dominated but have shown flashes of their tools. Mets asking for 2 of Darnell Sweeney, Scott Schebler or Jharel Cotton. Maybe they meet in the middle Sweeney and Bird plus Jarret Martin? Seeing that NY does so well teaching their guys to throw strikes maybe they can harness wild Martin.
Is Colon in the AL at 65 that much of an upgrade?
He was in the AL West last season and was superb.
I just think teams with a chance to go to the WS should do as much as they can to get there. Of course next year is a gamble, there are no guarantees, particularly no guarantee of being in a position to make the post-season again.
100% correct.
The Sandy Alderson method to building a winner:
1) Pay market price or a bit over for free agents
2) Have them perform at or slightly below expectations
3) Attempt to trade them for prospects while getting other teams to take on the full amount of their inflated contracts.
4) Get rejected.
5) Keep the players, finish in 4th place.
6) Repeat.
what a fascinatingly myopic view of what Alderson has done. Dilson Herrera, Syndergaard, Wheeler, Vick Black and d’Arnaud were all products of Sandy’s trades.
Examples?
No…?
They paid Marlon Byrd essentially league minimum last season and traded 2 months of him, along with the pricy Buck, for a very solid bullpen piece in Vic Black and a rising second base prospect in Herrera.
Your scenario is literally only true for Colon, as they dumped Chris Young. But the thing about Colon is that he’s pitched decent and has come close to earning his money.
Come close? He has 12 wins with 6 starts to go.c
Wins are not a good way to judge a pitcher. While his FIP is a decent 3.34, his ERA+ is below league average and he has 1.0 rWAR and a 2.3 fWAR. He’s probably earned his money, but it has nothing to do with wins.
They don’t look at which team leads in WAR for the playoffs. A veteran knows how to win because he knows how to stay in the game, saving the BP. There are a lot of good stats for youngsters with 5-12 records.
They may not look at which team leads in WAR for the playoffs, but literally every team in baseball uses WAR when they’re assembling their roster and every team in baseball values WAR over wins.
Wily Peralta is tied for 2nd in the league in wins at 15. If you think he is the second best pitcher in baseball, you are wrong. Wins are a terrible way to judge a pitcher because they are dependent on errors, your own team’s ability to score runs, pitchers who aren’t you (ie the bullpen), quality of the starter you’re going against, and even crazy things like rain delays.
And literally every GM in baseball values a starter that can last long enough, in a game, to get a win and save a BP.
I can guarantee you that GMs do not value ‘wins’ as a statistic. Colon’s value, either to other GMs or his monetary value, has nothing to do with the fact that he’s won 12 games. Colon’s value has to do with his FIP, his low walk rate, his durability, and his WAR. Again, the fact that he has 12 wins means zero.
Whatever! jeesh you’re so saberized you can’t even read.
Your head is buried very deep in the sand on this one. Statistics aren’t something to be afraid of. Wins is a borderline meaningless statistic whether you like it or not. WAR and FIP tell you meaningful things about a pitcher’s value. Wins tell you next to nothing.
I’m a believer in stats, I also have an open mind. Young pitchers have to learn to throw deep into games, it gets you more wins and rests the BP. There are old timers that still rate wins as the #1 stat, I don’t, but I also don’t discount it completely.
Makes a lot of sense for the Royals….
With Shields leaving at the end of the year, this assures the Royals of a veteran starter in 2015 for $11M, Plus they have Bartolo in the ’14 stretch run.
Who cares if they trade him or not, we’ll always need an innings eater. He’s shown reliability and it’ll effectively be a one year deal next year so it won’t be a big deal with any long term ramifications.
So, the Angels, Royals, and Dodgers were the only teams really tied to Colon and now all three have expressed disinterest. I don’t think there’s any way Sandy gets what he wants for Colon, but kudos to him for trying. Worst case scenario, you keep him and have a reliable #4-5 starter for $11MM. Not great, but it could be worse.
Bartolo Colon for Andre Ethier, and Dodgers pay half of Ethier’s contract. Mets kick in $3.5 mil if they want a prospect (Schebler or Sweeney) as part of the return. Easy match, and fills needs for both teams.
Of all the Ethier trade proposals I’ve seen on this site over the years, I actually don’t hate this one. Probably not enough cash going the Mets way, but it’s not terrible.
Not really a fan of this. Even paying half of the salary, the Mets would be paying $9MM per season for the next three years for a regressing player who is already replacement level. Part of the impetus to trading Colon is dumping salary, as the Mets’ payroll next season will be pushing $100MM simply due to Arb raises.
I’m also not really sure how the 4th year vesting option would work on Ethier. It’s a very reachable goal (550 PAs in 2017), so I’m assuming the Mets would be on the hook for the whole thing.
If the Phillies couldn’t get top prospects for Hamels what makes the Mets think they can?
you think the asking price for Hamels and Colon is the same?
Of course not but the Mets and Phillies said they want multiple top prospects for each but my point was that if teams don’t want to give top prospects and pay Hamels full contract (even though he is alot younger and a better quality pitcher with more team control) then teams wouldn’t give up top prospects and pay the salary for a 41 year old pitcher.
the point is their situations couldn’t be more different. Colon would be a rental, and the compensation would likely be commensurate. Hamels, while younger and better is also more expensive and is so for more years. He also has a no trade clause, and a GM unwilling to come to grips with the state of his franchise. Regardless of what we think either of these guys are worth, it is in the Met’s best interest to play hardball at least through Sunday. I am sure they have no problem revisiting talks when people can have a 1 year 11m SP while their AAA pitcher incubate rather than commit 150+ million to Lester or Scherzer. As a Mets fan, I’d like to see a trade now mostly because my team stinks and I want something interesting to happen. Rationally though, if Sandy’s price for Colon isn’t met, whatever it may be, it’s probably for the best.
I still would like to see the Ms grab him. They need a dependable #5 starter which they dont have
I see Ketel Marte & Gabriel Guerrero as suitable returns, but in reality, it won’t happen.
11 million is too much for a #5 for a team like the Ms.
Beside from the money factor, heard some teams are scared off by possible new suspensions from the current Bosch investigation