The Rockies, who have lost four in a row and 11 of their last 15, own the National League’s worst record and the third-worst mark in all of baseball. The franchise faces six key questions, according to the Denver Post’s Patrick Saunders, including whether to trade Troy Tulowitzki and to overhaul the front office to appease the disgruntled fan base. Saunders doesn’t see either happening because owner Dick Monfort is an extremely loyal and stubborn man. Saunders writes Tulowitzki could force a trade if he is willing to be portrayed as the disloyal, bad guy. Elsewhere in the NL:
- Jim Bowden of ESPN.com (Insider subscription required) says it’s time for the Phillies to rebuild and he has seven trade ideas to help make that happen. Bowden suggests the Phillies send Cole Hamels to the Dodgers for center fielder Joc Pederson and left-hander Julio Urias. He would also send Cliff Lee to the Yankees for outfielder Aaron Judge and right-hander Luis Severino.
- Lee’s uncertain health makes trading him a tough call for the Phillies, writes the Philadelphia Inquirer’s Matt Gelb. Meanwhile, Gelb points out the Phillies probably couldn’t get a a worse return than what was had in the last three Lee trades. Of the 11 prospects in those deals, only one (Justin Smoak) has been a regular in the Majors.
- The Yankees and Blue Jays are both cool on the idea of a reunion with Phillies right-hander A.J. Burnett, reports CSNPhilly.com’s Jim Salisbury.
- Burnett’s contract and performance are reasons why teams looking to bolster their starting rotation should look elsewhere, opines Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com.
- The Mets’ phone isn’t ringing off the hook with trade proposals for Bartolo Colon, tweets Mike Puma of the New York Post.
- The Padres won the Huston Street trade as the amount of talent the Angels parted with to acquire the closer is baffling, opines ESPN.com’s Keith Law (Insider subscription required).
Edward Creech contributed to this post.
If the Yankees are trading Judge and Severino to the Phillies it better be for Hamels, not Lee who is old and injured. I’d rather the Yankees miss the playoffs and sign Lester or Scherzer for just money than give the Yankees 2 best prospects when the team needs to get younger anyways. Lee isn’t gonna make this Yankees team a World Series contender.
Phils can get a much better package than that for Hamels.
2 of the top 3 players in a top 10 farm system? No, no they can’t.
the yankees do not have a top 10 farm system.
He was speaking of the Dodgers
The Pederson and Urias package I would accept in a heartbeat. Not the Judge/Severino one.
2 top 20 prospects in baseball?
That is dreaming a bit much.
Someone is listing Urias as top 20 at 17 years old?
But yes, for four years of Hamels’ prime. The Phillies could wait a year or two and trade Cole for some of these packages people are suggesting. If they’re going to give up those two extra years, there needs to be some incentive for them to make the trade now rather than later.
BA has Urias as 13th best in baseball. I don’t think Hamels with that contract will net 2 top 20 prospects, that is quite a bit of dreaming. That contract doesn’t have enough excess value to make it.
Phillies aren’t looking to trade Hamels. For them to do so, they would have to get blown away in a deal and that deal would have to include a pitcher who can help them soon. They don’t have enough pitching depth in the organization to trade Hamels for a pitcher that won’t help them for 4 years.
And I wouldn’t accept it if I were the Yankees either (for Lee).
He was speaking of the Dodgers
Since when do the Yankees have a top-10 system? This is news to me.
My bad, answered the wrong thread. Was speaking of Dodgers system. Yanks top ten! Bahahaha!
The Dodgers aren’t top 10 either, though it is ranked higher than the Yankees.
That is 2 nice parts….Probably they would get 1 or 2 fringe prospects with those 2,
If Ruben gets those offers pull the trigger on both moves! Loving that return, especially the one for Hamels.
From the article, no doubt. Judge and Severino for Hamels, I’d hold out for more.
Judge and Severino are probably not enough to get Hamels on their own, but adding Banuelos and Cervelli to the mix should get the Yankees close. I prefer an even larger deal that includes Lee and Papelbon as well. On the Yankees side, I would add David Robertson and another prospect plus a 72hr negotiating window with Robertson.
You still think the Yankees can just add $60MM in payroll a year just like that?
Can? Who knows? Who cares? Should? Absolutely. I would trade for both Hamels and Lee and then sign Lester this offseason.
The Yankees don’t have enough assets to trade for both Lee & Hamels
I love MLB the Show too!
Everyone knows the Yankees system couldn’t swing that trade. I like Severino a lot but him and Judge aren’t top prospects in most systems. Severino and Judge are overpays for Lee, depending on the money changing sides, but to throw in Hamels and Papelbon is pushing it for an already depleted system.
Couldn’t swing the trade? Between Severino, Judge, Jagielo, Sanchez, Refsnyder, Lail, Torrens, O’Brien, Bird, Austin, Murphy and the many other guys that I’m not going to name for the sake of redundancy I’m sure they could pull it off just fine. It would just be ignorant to do so.
Yes, if the Yankees traded away most or all of their top farmhands they could do the trade but why would they want to gut their system was my point. A few of those hitters you mention aren’t looking so hot too.
Which of those hitters isn’t looking too hot other than the fact that O Brien is looking like he’s going to hit a home run or strike out at every at bat? Other than that every one of those guys has been playing very well this season.
Serevino is a top 50 guy. He’s a top prospect in any system. If Judge keeps performing the way he is, he’ll be top 100 in most offseason lists, especially if he can reach AA this year.
The Phillies wouldn’t want Cervelli. They would want a younger catcher. I’m not sure they would want Banuelos either. They have enough under-achievers in their organization
I don’t think Frankie Cervelli has that much trade value at the moment. He’s acquired the “frequently injured” moniker that’s a killer. That, and ManBam missed all of the past 2 seasons with TJ surgery. He also needs to prove he can stay healthy and continue to develop.
You want Hamels, you start the offer with Judge + Severino + Sanchez. That starts the conversation. Adding Jose Ramirez and another pitching prospect at the AA or AAA level might get it done.
No way would I offer those 3 for the chance to take on Hamels. That is 3 top 100 prospects, if you that desperate for pitching then why don’t we just sign Scherzer in the offseason? I’m not emptying the farm to get an ace half a year earlier.
What about the Seattle Mariners by making a three way deal w/ the Dodgers?
I’m not convinced they could. Serevino is a very high end pitching talent who is already performing at the AA level and Judge has huge power potential and has shown himself to be a better contact hitter than expected. That’s a nice package, even if people try to downplay the Yankees system.
Agree completely. Lee is toast. Severino has ace potential and Judge is showing he’s not a power only one trick pony. Can’t get too excited because of the levels that the two of them are at right now, but there’s no way they are getting shipped off for Cliff Lee.
I don’t know if Lee is toast. I think he could still dominate but given his age, his now injury history (and his age makes it more likely that he might get hurt again and older players take longer to rehab and get back on the field) and his hefty contract, I don’t think the Phillies are in a position to demand a top prospect, let alone 2, for Lee.
It’s not baffling when you realize the Angels can go out and buy anybody, for the most part. They don’t need a farm system, much like the Yankees.
It baffles me when people say the Yankees have no farm system, they have a way better one than the Angels. Just because they were ranked bad at the beginning of the season doesn’t mean it’s terrible now, they have 2 guys who can be Top 50 prospects in MLB after this season in Severino and Judge with Sanchez who could still be a Top 100 and Refsnyder who could sneak into Top 100 as well.
That’s a lot of “could” without anything concrete behind it. And that isn’t meant as a shot, just simply pointing out that they don’t have the rankings yet.
Also, if EVERYTHING you say plays out, that’s only four top 100 prospects, with two being guys that could “sneak” in.
No way the Yanks send Severino and Judge to Philly for Lee’s bloated contract, unless the Phils “toss in” (the also bloated contract of) Cole Hamels.
Hamels “bloated” contract is a deal compared to what the FA aces are going to be asking for and getting this winter. He’s also only 30 and his deal ends when he’s only 34.
Now, you may explain why Hamels’ deal is anything but fair to this point…
Hamels is a #3 getting paid like an ace. I know it would take a lot more than Judge & Severino (add Sanchez & Banuelos) for the both of them, but the Phils paying Hamels $25 mil while rebuilding doesn’t make sense.
Well, that may be the most ridiculous statement I’ve heard in a while.
Judge & Severino for Lee & Hamels? Are you crazy?
Why the Yankees are prioritizing starting pitching is beyond me. Yes they’ve lost 4/5 starters (losing CC doesn’t hurt btw), but pitching has not been the problem. It hasnt been the problem for the past 3 years or so. They desperately need a corner bat and an infielder more than they need another starter. But most importantly, no need to deplete an already weak farm system for what will be a lost season.
Because SP wins championships, can’t expect this team to win a playoff series with Kuroda, Phelps, and McCarthy.
won’t win any games if you don’t score any runs, especially when you have teams out hitting you in your stadium designed for the benefit of hitters. Besides they have to worry about getting into the postseason before they worry about winning a playoff series. Adding a starter wouldn’t help them in accomplishing that as much as a bat would.
Probably because there really aren’t any good bats out there to acquire. Who would you want that would actually be available? We can’t get someone like Kemp and where would we play him exactly?
Going after pitching is important because we need proven starters that can give us innings to save the arms of Warren and Betances. Our bullpen will be shot sooner rather than later at this pace. Losing CC did hurt, it hurt the innings pitched of our staff and innings pitched of our bullpen. Look beyond the ERA and WHIP.
The Yankees need a RF. Ichiro is quickly evaporating playing everyday. One of the Dodgers OF rotation actually make sense for the Yankees.
The only OF of value is Kemp and the Yankees wouldn’t be able to get him IMO.
As a Dodger fan, a package around sanchez could work, avoiding the yankees top guys, depending how much of the contract the yankees take. The dodgers could use a catcher in a yr or two after Ellis and moving kemp allows them to bring up pederson, which I think would be worth more to them than any prospect they could reasonable get for kemp at this point
Speaking about the Dodgers catcher position. That’s something they need to address for next season or even now. AJ Ellis Just is not cutting it I would have FedEx in his place right now.
Would make more sense to send Kemp to the Red Sox for Middlebrooks, Lavarnaway, and Peavy. I will give you Sanchez for Han-Ram and a 72hr negotiating window.
the yankees do have enough to get kemp, who is bad defensively and only slightly above average offensively
Maybe if they eat the majority of the contract. But I’m saying this under the assumption that Severino and Judge are both off-limits at this point. They probably aren’t, but moving either (or both) for Kemp would really stink.
they have other prospects to offer if they wanted to. avelino is one, clarkin, torrens, sulbaran, etc. players that aren’t top prospects but still have enough value to make the dodgers listen.
I don’t think that works. We are talking low low level talent right there. Those types of players (until they progress and move up) don’t have that value level. Those become more side-pieces to go with the centerpiece.
If you want to say Sanchez + Torrens + 50-75% of Kemp’s contract, then that probably gets it close.
Kemp has little to no value with the way he’s played
.265 average, with an OBP less than .330, and only 8 home runs. defensive WAR of -2.5 and overall WAR of -1.4, he wouldn’t/shouldn’t cost much to acquire. The Yankees are better off bringing up Pirela or Refsnyder to play RF than trade for Matt Kemp
If that were true then there would be no point in acquiring him…lol.
…and there isn’t a point in acquiring Kemp
If that were true then there would be no point in acquiring him…lol.
I would have interest in Kemp as a corner outfielder, but no way would I give up that much to get him. He is still owed $115MM, if the Dodgers take half then that is still almost $60MM. I wouldn’t give up those prospects to still pay that much outlay to Kemp. He would be a partial salary dump to allow them to play Slyke, Pedersen, and Puig.
You are overvaluing Kemp. His WAR the past 2 seasons is -0.8 (yes Negative 0.8).
Among 92 OFers with 600+ PA the last 2 years , he is ranked 91st in WAR. I know money ain’t a problem for NY or LA , but his contract is also awful.
Hmm, perhaps your right. TBH I didn’t look at his stats so I figured he wasn’t that bad. I know he’s been injured quite a bit, but thought he was still productive in some ways.
So I guess it wouldn’t really take much after all. Still would have to be a prospect of value. I don’t think it would be just a pure salary dump.
Why give up a prospect of value when Kemp has produced below AAAA level? He hasn’t been the same since 2011 and sure a lot can be due to injury but when he’s playing he has been pretty bad. Might as well call up someone from the farm rather than trade for another bloated contract, even if the Dodgers ate most of his salary.
Kemp is hitting .269/.331/.424 which is okay but he’s due $21 million next year and $21.5 million annually in 2016-2019. You would hope for a little more than that for a $20 mill/season player. Andre Ethier might have a little higher trade value since he is “only” due $18 mill in ’15 and ’16 and $17.5 mill in ’17 and has a vest club option for 2018 for $17.5 mill. His career numbers (.285/.359/.464) are good but his numbers this year (.248/.311/.374) are troubling. If it’s the start of a downward trend, his deal could look really, really ugly this time next season. Any deal would have to be a salary dump, with the Dodgers sending a considerable chunk of cash to even things out to an acquiring team and taking next-to-nothing back in prospects in return.
The only OF of value is Kemp and the Yankees wouldn’t be able to get him IMO.
Yankees can turn to Zolio Almonte, Zealous Wheeler or Rob Refsnyder for right field, for no cost.
No there aren’t, which is why Id prefer them to do nothing. And if you aquire Kemp you play him at RF, would certainly be a better option than Ichiro. But I wouldn’t touch that contract anyway.
Betances and Warren might not be stretched out as starters, but have been starters their entire lives, innings really shouldn’t be an issue for them, they’ve pitched 150 in a season before. What you’re basically telling me is that they should give up prospects for an innings eater, even one who pitches as poorly as CC did. I really don’t see much value in a pitcher who can pitch deep but give up 5 runs in the process.
Betances couldn’t cut it as a SP. He’s suited for the pen and needs to stay in the pen. They should have learned the lesson from Joba about bouncing guys back and forth between the pen and rotation.
I said nothing about Betances being converted back to a SP
You referenced Betances being a starter.
yes in the past, to point out the amount of innings he throws out of the pen really shouldn’t be an issue because hes had years where hes thrown more as a starter. I would keep him in the pen too.
No, that’s not what I’m saying. No where in my reply did I say I wanted them to acquire a pitcher. Looking for one makes more sense than looking for a bat simply because of what’s out there (that was my point). If they can make another McCarthy for Nuno type deal then I would be okay with it.
All in all, I rather them just not do anything and play the season out. Let their guys develop and regroup in the offseason.
Fair enough, but just because there are better pitchers than hitters available, doesn’t mean they should be prioritizing them over positional players.
Yeah I agree, even if they acquire a guy like Price for example (not saying it will/ even can happen) this is not a playoff team. At this point I would just hope Beltran, Mcann, Tex, Ellsbury hit, and call up Pirela/Refshynder if they continue to hit in AAA for some help.
Just putting it out there, I don’t disagree with you at all. Our bats are not doing the job and we need something to help push this team along. The issue is what’s out there and available.
I get the idea that both Warren and Betances have been starters, however Betances I’m worried about. He converted to a reliever all of last season in the minors. So he has now gone a full season+ without being stretched out.
A deal for Lee wouldn’t just be about 2014; he’s signed for 2015 and has a club option for $27.5 million for 2016 (or a $12.5 million buyout). Hiroki Kuroda may not be resigned: he may go back to Japanese baseball, he may go to an LA team or he may retire. Ivan Nova will miss, most likely, at least the first half of next season. CC Sabathia and Michael Pineda? Who knows what to expect out of those 2 at this point? Brandon McCarthy is a free agent after this season. Right now, at this moment, the 2015 starting rotation looks like David Phelps and a lot of question marks. Chase Whitley and Shane Greene will get a chance to show they belong in the equation but an established veteran like Lee seems to be more the Yankee way of going about things.
Yeah we will give you two of our top three prospects for an old, injured, very well paid Cliff Lee. I can’t believe these guys get paid to put out this nonsense.
It’s even worse that you have to pay to read his nonsense.
Yankees top 2 prospects< everyone elses top 2 but I agree it's an overpay but only because The Yanks would likely eat all or most of Lee's contract. To act like Cliff Lee isn't still Cliff Lee would be a mistake though. I hope my team gets him, the guy is still one of the top 10 pitchers in the NL in my opinion.
Masahiro ERA 2.51, FIP 3.07, 7.7 H/9, 1.0 HR/9, 1.3 BB/9, 9.4 K/9
Cliff Lee ERA 3.18, FIP 2.69, 10.3 H/9, 0.7 HR/9, 1.2 BB/9, 8.1 K/9
Last two years Lee lead the National League in BB/9 and K/BB
That’s the thing people don’t get. The Phillies are not going to give Lee or anyone away just for salary relief. They are not small market. Lee is still an ace and is signed for another year. He has never had a serious injury. Yankee fans should be able to remember how he pitches in the playoffs. They want prospects not salary relief and if they don’t get that they will just try trading him after the season.
Believe me I want Lee, but I would hope and imagine we aren’t giving up anything like that for him.
The Mets‘ phone isn’t ringing off the hook with trade proposals for Bartolo Colon
That’s because he’s 41 and being paid a lot of money.
Although, I do admit he does do a good job of covering 1st base. He can still do that.
I was watching him pitch Friday night and he was okay.
4 to 1 lead and he gave it up, it was 4 to 4 when I turned if off…
As for speculation about Cliff Lee, 1st he has to be healthy and second the Phillies have to be reasonable about his salary. Backloading that deal was their fault, not the rest of the league’s!!!
How about Colon for Kemp straight up?
I don’t see the Mets taking on a bloated contract
Probably not, but they should.
Maybe but not Kemp’s. His contract is awful and he’s been below replacement level these past 2 seasons.
Only ONE OFer in baseball (Raul Ibanez if we want to call him an OFer) is ranked below Kemp in WAR the past 2 seasons (out of 92 OFers).
It doesn’t baffle me that the Angels gave up what they did for Street. The closer is often over-valued by many. I’ve been curious as to what my Reds could get in return for Chapman. I’d hate to see him go, but we have weak spots and he’s not getting any cheaper.
As a Dodger fan, I am against the idea of trading Hamels for Pederson and Lee. Those two are some of the key prospects of the farm system and I don’t want the Dodgers to face the same situation in the future as the Phillies now are in. Besides Haren, the Dodgers rotation is currently fine and its the bullpen that needs fixing.
*Urias, not Lee
Phils should tell Yanks – Lee & Howard (with paying no salary) for 2 nothing prospects… Then Phils can send Hamels to Dodgers, deal Rollins & Papelbon for anything and try to get a decent package for Utley…. Then they will at least be out of salary hell & can truly start over
The last thing the Yankees want is another long term contract. Howard is terrible and would have no place to play with Teixeira already at 1st and DH for Beltran and A-Rod next year
ill take lee and papelbon and take on all there money for 2 nothing prospects lol
Phils should tell Yanks – Lee & Howard (with paying no salary) for 2 nothing prospects… Then Phils can send Hamels to Dodgers, deal Rollins & Papelbon for anything and try to get a decent package for Utley…. Then they will at least be out of salary hell & can truly start over
Dodgers aren’t going to trade their prospects at least the top ones. Why do everyone think they will. We need to move on from that. If they do I’ll be surprise
This is why Bowden is no longer a GM in baseball… but as for the Yankees. Severino is getting a lot of love right now after coming almost out of nowhere to start the season… but I always have pause with Yankees prospects.
The Yankees seem to have a bust rate with prospects greater than the league norm. Even guys who climb into the top-25 of “Baseball America lists”
Fair but they have also had All Star or All Star calibur prospects like Cano (best 2B in baseball the last 5 years) , Gardner, Betances and Robertson.
The SP for the Yankees farm has probably been the biggest disappointment.
Yes but severino is moving through the Yankees system very quick for someone’s who came out of nowhere. Lights out stuff too. I hate majority of our prospects but I’ve watched tons of footage and he has tons and tons of upside, and he’s only 20
I don’t think you should “hate” our prospects, there are still some talented guys down there. I’ve known about guys like judge and severino since before the season started, and now all these scouts and reporters are starting to recognize the talent that’s been there all along. You should follow the system more closely and you’ll realize there is more under-the-radar talent than you think.
Yankees signed Cano over a decade ago and two of those guys are relief pitchers. The other is a 30 year old left handed OF with a lifetime average under .270 and never hit double digits HR in Yankee stadium. That list makes the Yankees lack of player development more glaring in my mind.
Who cares how long ago it was? Do you expect me to name another Yankee 2B (or SS for that matter) that’s been developed in recent years that has played for the team for a long time? Or is it next to impossible because they’ve had a future HOFer in 1 spot for 20 years and another great hitter possibly on his way to the HOF for 9 years?
Robertson and Betances are 2 of the best relievers in baseball. And I’m also unsure why you’re using BA over OBP. Also Gardner has 9 HR this year so 10 is very likely. But he’s not a power hitter and you don’t have to be a power hitter to be successful. Look at Ichiro.
I don’t disagree that the player development hasn’t been for the most part a disappointment though. Just saying not all of it has been bad.
Its the NY media bias toward their prospects. Their system is always lower than they are ranked. I can still hear the jaba chamberlain slober fest.
Keith Law isn’t biased, neither is Baseball America, and they both have yankee prospects in the top 50.
Severino didn’t come out of no where tho is the thing. He was highly regarded as an amateur when the Yankees signed him. You just don’t see many international prospects getting love until they at least hit A ball. Severino did that this year and quickly earned a call up to AA (where his first start was also a success)
This is why Bowden is no longer a GM in baseball… but as for the Yankees. Severino is getting a lot of love right now after coming almost out of nowhere to start the season… but I always have pause with Yankees prospects.
The Yankees seem to have a bust rate with prospects greater than the league norm. Even guys who climb into the top-25 of “Baseball America lists”
Even though he’s 35 and missed the last 2 months, all reports are that Lee is healthy and hasn’t lost velocity or command. I don’t know if Lee would waive his NTC to go to the Yankees, but if there was ever a time he would it’s now.
Judge and Severino is about what the return should be if Lee checks out medically. The Phillies could probably throw in a mid-level prospect like Kelly Dugan and send Phillippe Aumont to see if a change of scenery works for him.
My guess is at age 35 Lee, unless of course he just wants to finish his career where he is, would be willing to waive his no trade clause to go to whatever team he sees a viable WS contender. He’s gotten 2 shots at a ring and hasn’t gotten it yet.
The Yankees are not winning a ring with or without Lee. Sorry Yankee fans. That’s a 500 team with a 220 million dollar payroll.
I’m not a yankee fan, I’m a Red Sox fan. However in my long tenure as a Sox fan I’ve learned many truths, one is never count the yanks out until it’s happened mathematically.
I’m not ripping them its just reality. Oakland and the Angels are legit.
I never said you were ripping them. I just won’t count them out until they are actually out.
They won’t be out mathematically in that weak division. Realistically they are not winning anything though.
The thing is once a team gets into the playoffs new variables need to be considered. Such as previous playoff experience and quite frankly luck. A single good or bad moment in the season can effect a game but a single moment is a playoff series can change the entire series.
Also teams who should have never even gotten to the WS have won before. Such as the 2006 Cardinals who should have been easily beaten by the Mets or the Tigers. So as I said, not counting out the yanks until they are out.
If you have good pitching which they don’t you can make a run. Right now they are getting by on smoke and mirrors.
Wouldn’t be so quick to rip on guys like Phelps and Greene. Expecting a Tanaka return is unrealistic, as is a return for Pineda. But I’ve always liked Phelps and when he’s on he’s very on. Greene has very similar stuff to the pre-freak accident Wang and Kuroda is pitching like he’s forgotten how old he is (albeit with the second half looming). Only takes 3 pitchers or so to really make a difference in a playoff series.
Kuroda is a solid 3 and Greene has two starts. Oakland has a much better offense and much better rotation. The way the Yankees use Bettances every game its a good chance he gets over worked too. They are desperate using him for more than 3 outs every night.
No one is saying they are better than Oakland. What they (and I) are saying is that anything can happen in a playoff series. A week ago, the Mariners got swept by the Twins (or maybe lost 3 of 4 to them).
Point is, the favorites do not always win and anything can happen in a series. There is NO Questoin that Oakland is better than NY, but the fact remains is that anything can happen in a given series
As @start_wearing_purple:disqus pointed out, look at the 2006 Cardinals (or 2000 Yankees), 2 of the worst WS winners ever.
Just because Greene has two starts doesn’t mean you can just toss aside his stuff. I’m not saying this about some guy that’s gone in and thrown high 80s fastballs and managed to squeak by with wins a la Whitley. Greenies going up there and consistently throwing a 90 something mile an hour sinker and slider with great movement.
And don’t forget the 2006 Tigers lost I believe 35 of their final 50 games.
The thing is once a team gets into the playoffs new variables need to be considered. Such as previous playoff experience and quite frankly luck. A single good or bad moment in the season can effect a game but a single moment is a playoff series can change the entire series.
Also teams who should have never even gotten to the WS have won before. Such as the 2006 Cardinals who should have been easily beaten by the Mets or the Tigers. So as I said, not counting out the yanks until they are out.
Oakland and Angels may be legit but sadly, 1 of those 2 teams (if the standings in the West hold up) are going to be stuck in a 1 game playoff and no matter who it is against, anything can happen in 1 game in baseball.
I agree the Yankees aren’t a championship team with or without Lee, but anything can happen in the playoffs. First things first, they have to get in 1st in the East, a sweep of the Reds and O’s losing 2 of 3 to A’s moves them up.
If I’m Ned Colletti, the only way I deal Urias AND Pederson is for David Price, Ben Zobrist, and Jake McGee.
Hamel’s is better than price and locked up so you know he isn’t walking any time soon
“Price is better than Hamels” I fixed that for you
Lee for Verlander is a reasonable deal on both sides.
Verlander needs to reinvent himself into a Mike Maddux type pitcher. He needs to let go of his “MPG arrogance”. He can do it… but it would help to have pitchers to pitch against and batters who are unfamiliar with him. NL is a better match for JV during this transition time.
Lee (assuming health… which may be a big assumption) is better than Verlander right now. Also, he is left handed. On the other hand, a year or two from now, Verlander will be better than Lee (assuming he can reinvent himself).
Tigers would be MORE competitive in 2014 with a healthy Lee v. Verlander AND they would have payroll flexibility to sign Scherzer longterm after the season. It is hard to see them commit so much to Scherzer with Verlander’s contract.
The dodgers should be all over doing whatever it takes for Hamel’s. He’s a Cali kid locked up for years and in his prime. Former WS MVP with a ring. I would trade Urias ,Pederson another mid level prospects for Hamel’s and Papelbom.
It should take a lot more than Urias, Pederson and a mid-level to get Hamels and Papelbon. It should take something like Pederson, Urias, Lee, Anderson, Schebler, Yimi Garcia and maybe Billingsley.
I think pederson. Urias and another mid level prospect plus a mlb ready player would be enough if taking in paps salary.
Papelbon is only guaranteed about $19M and he’s pitching extremely well. That’s not chump change, but it doesn’t diminish Hamel’s value. If a team is giving up a top 5 LHP with postseason experience and success who is under control for at least 4 more seasons, the return needs to be massive.
I agree with you. Hamel’s is clearly worth a major haul which should include two top prospects a mid prospect t and a mlb ready player who can fill in from day one.
Yeah the Dodgers want to gut their farm system for those two?! Kasten does not gut farm systems.
Wasn’t saying they would. I actually don’t see the point in the Dodgers trying to acquire Hamels when Ryu has been a great #3 and the FA market will be flush with front of the rotation arms in Scherzer, Lester and Shields. Why gut the farm to get Hamels (and that’s what they’d have to do) when they can just wait until the winter and sign one of them? Their current rotation should be good enough to win a WS. Their bullpen, that’s another issue.
It would take a lot more than Pederson & Urias to get Hamels.
It would be a good starring point.
The Phillies aren’t looking to trade Hamels. For them to move him, it is going to take an offer that completely blows them away. Pederson & Urias isn’t going to do it. There would have to be more in the deal than that & that is no knock on either Pederson or Urias.
I think pederson, Urias another prospect and LA taking on paps salary would be enough. They could promote Giles to closer start Pederson in the outfield right away.
The Dodgers have apparently backed off on Papelbon because they heard he doesn’t want to be a set up man. The Phillies would have to get a pitcher that can help them soon. They don’t have the pitching depth in their organization to wait 4 years for Urias to develop. It would also take the Phillies being willing to listen on Hamels which by all indications so far, they aren’t. If they don’t want to listen, they aren’t even going to discus a package with the Dodgers or anyone else.
Urias is about a year away as is Aaron Nola. They can bring both kids up together and they can bring Maikel Franco up with Pederson this year. They could sign max Scherzer in the off season as the new staff ace. They get younger and add a ton of talent.
Maikel Franco isn’t hitting at all in AAA. Yeah call him up. Aaron Nola is in Clearwater. He is at least 2 years away. Urias is 17 years old. He is more than a year away
Ready or not Franco will be up some this year. Urias is a lot younger than I thought. For some reason I thought he was 19 right now. It should take more than just Urias and Pederson for Hamel’s. I agree with you they need a mlb ready pitching prospect included plus an mlb player too. Nola should be fast tracked.
Yeah, which is even more reason not to go after a SP who will probably get injured anyway!
Law doesnt understand the value of a lockdown closer. Thats part of the reason its not worth it to pay to read him.
While I agree with Law that the Angels seriously overpaid to get Street, they seriously needed to improve the back end of their bullpen. They’re in a position to win now and took the necessary step to improve their chances. While I’m not a Tigers fan, I can’t believe they haven’t upgraded their end of game relievers yet. Nathan has been a train wreck. With a lock down closer they might have the best record in baseball or at least have a double digit division lead.
Just because you haven’t heard of/watched the Yankees farm system doesn’t mean they aren’t top 10. Severino and Judge may be young and a couple years away from contributing at the MLB level, but by the time the two of them get to AA or AAA they’ll both be top 20 prospects. And that’s just those two. Toss in Jagielo, Sanchez, Cave, Refsnyder, Austin, Torrens and a few more guys at those lower levels and you’ve got yourself a farm system to be reconned with. And as Brian Cashman, I’d spit in Amaros face if he offered me Cliff Lee for Severino and Judge.
Exactly. And most of the people who call the system “trash” can’t name more than 5 prospects within it. They just go based off the farm rankings of the years prior without following the games or the players. Those who follow the system wouldn’t be surprised with the recent successes of both Severino and Judge.
Yep. Most of the talent may not be in AAA (or even much in AA, albeit there is a bit playing in Trenton), but that does not by any means mean that it’s not there. Of course some guys are going to get stuck when attempting to move up, but that happens to every team’s prospects (Bubba Starling anyone?). Between break out years and a few bounce back years (Bichette Jr just started another hit streak a game after his 20 game hit streak ended) the future isn’t as bleak as non Yankees fans LOVE to make it seem.
Phils need to figure out a way to bring a catcher back. Joseph had another concussion setback, and is Knapp the future and if so, how far into the future 2017??
I’d give you John Ryan Murphy and a couple mid level prospects for Lee. Could we work something out? Haha
Where did you see that Joseph had a setback? I haven’t seen that anywhere.
Heard it on 97.5 the other day that he had another concussion.
Must have been the past concussions they were talking about. He went 1-3 Sunday for the GCL Phillies playing behind the plate. He should probably be returning to AA or AAA in the next week or so.
Oh okay, yea when I heard them talking about it, I smacked my own head.
Hamel’s should get a better return than Price. Same age but Hamel’s is a WS championship, WS MVP and has cost certainty unlike price. Price can walk away after next season.
You’re nuts if you think a World Series ring and a big contract are going to make Hamels get a better return. A team my see that he’s won a World Series and like the experience. But they won’t see that and think “hmm. Yeah let’s toss in another top prospect for the guy”.
Unless the team trading for Price won’t be able to extend him, then they may value a guy like Hamels over him.
Why would the Dodgers trade Joc Pederson for pitching? They have a surplus of ace starters. If anything they need another bat. Which Pederson himself could be, if they could just swallow their pride and bench someone from Ethier, Puig, and Kemp. All of the above have been looking lost at the plate.
Ethier would be the best one to bench