MONDAY: Iglesias tells reporters, including MLB.com's Jason Beck, that he has been diagnosed with stress fractures in each shin, but he believes he can play at some point this season (Twitter links). Beck tweets that Iglesias will see a specialist tomorrow, which will give Detroit a better idea on his timeframe for a return.
MLB Network Radio's Jim Duquette first reported (via Twitter) that Iglesias' injury had worsened from shin spints to stress fractures earlier this morning.
SUNDAY, 1:09pm: Iglesias will need "extended rehab" for months and possibly the entire season, a source with knowledge of the injury tells the Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo (via Twitter). Meanwhile, Red Sox manager John Farrell told reporters, including Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com, he feels for Iglesias, who played for him last year, but was "aware (the shins were an issue) to the extent we had to monitor. We had to get him off his feet because he felt some pain and soreness there."
11:22am: The Tigers are sending Iglesias for a third opinion, but GM Dave Dombrowski says that the shortstop will definitely start the year on the DL, reports Tom Gage of the Detroit News (Twitter links). Initially, at least, the team will look to fill in for Iglesias internally, said Dombrowski.
SATURDAY: Tigers shortstop Jose Iglesias will miss most of the 2014 season with a shin injury, Jim Bowden of ESPN tweets, citing a player close to Iglesias. The injury has fueled speculation that the Tigers will now pursue Stephen Drew, Bowden notes.
Iglesias hit just .259/.306/.348 for the Tigers in 46 games after arriving in a trade with Boston in 2013, but is widely regarded as one of the game's top defensive shortstops. The Tigers were relying on Iglesias to serve as the cog in a more defense-oriented infield, so replacing him at this point in the offseason will be a challenge. Drew likely represents the simplest option for doing so.
Drew, 31, hit .253/.333/.443 with typically strong defense at short for the World Champion Red Sox in 2013, but his 124 games played was his highest total since 2010. The Scott Boras client managed just 79 games in 2012 and 86 games in 2011. That fragility is likely one major factor in his continued availability. Another, of course, is the draft pick compensation Drew is tied to after declining a qualifying offer from the Red Sox. If the Tigers do sign him, they'll lose what is currently the 23rd pick in the 2014 draft. Forfeiting that pick could be a tough pill for Detroit to swallow. GM Dave Dombrowski has managed to avoid doing so thus far this offseason, with his major acquisition, second baseman Ian Kinsler, coming via trade rather than free agency.
However, Detroit ultimately has few alternatives if the goal is replacing Iglesias with an impact player. Indeed, this situation — team with playoff aspirations loses middle infielder to injury late in Spring Training — seems to be precisely what Boras has waited for.
Mariners infielder Nick Franklin is another possibility. The 23-year-old's name has appeared frequently in trade rumors since the Robinson Cano signing, and as the owner of less than a year of service time, he'd pair with third baseman Nick Castellanos to give the Tigers two talented, cost-controlled infielders. On the other hand, Dombrowski may be hesistant to hand two starting infield jobs to unproven players in a season in which the Tigers expect to contend for a championship.
Finally this whole Drew dilemma will be over with.
Baseball is the real loser here. Going to miss watching him.
You’re right, Iglesias is a tremendous defensive shortstop.
I’m still kinda bummed Boston got rid of him.
Tough to quantify Peavy’s impact vs. the loss of Iglesias, but when you win a championship (and have Xander Bogaerts) those quantifications tend to not matter as much..
The way I look at it, the Red Sox would have won the division with or without doing that trade and Peavy wasn’t a difference maker in the playoffs so I think the championship could have been won without the trade. However, there is no way of knowing.
What we do know is it would be much better to have a defensive stud long term at SS and Bogaerts at 3B on cheap contracts than Bogaerts moving around SS/3B and Middlebrooks hacking away and playing poor D.
“What we do know is it would be much better to have a defensive stud long term at SS and Bogaerts at 3B on cheap contracts than Bogaerts moving around SS/3B and Middlebrooks hacking away and playing poor D.”
Well, that’s obviously a heavily subjective opinion that makes assumptions I don’t necessarily agree with about both Middlebrooks and XB. Coming on the heels of losing Drew, the lack of proven defense on the left side of the infield is bound to look extra glaring..but it all remains to be seen. You’re also forgetting about Marerro who could very well end up as a long-term defensive stud at SS should XB be moved to 3B and Middlebrooks traded/benched/moved to 1st sometime in the future..
and it will ramp right back up again (if drew is signed for two+ years) with the drew vs Iggy debate (see sox)
I don’t think Detroit signs him. They weren’t expecting much offense from Iggy anyway. Defensive minded ss can be found in system from Suarez or Perez
Iggy can hit .250. Perez will struggle to hit .200 and Suarez May not hit that much. I fully expect Drew to be a Tiger.
Drew will give you defense and offense.
hitting .250 and 13HRs hitting from the left side in Fenway is offense? Ummmm
They were expecting an average-or-better overall player, which Suarez and Perez are not. Stephen Drew on a two- or one- year term could be a good fit. This is like V-Mart/Prince all over again.
Stephen Drew is also a really good defensive shortstop.
I think Detroit passes on Drew and saves money for some Scherzer extension. The Tigers will watch the waiver wire over the next couple of weeks.
If Boras doesn’t want Drew signing for one year, how’s he going to feel about Drew signing for one year and playing half of it? Once Iggy comes back, Drew would sit. I don’t see it.
I just don’t want him back in Boston, so it’s mostly wishful thinking ha.
When Iglesias comes back, Drew could be traded- and thus avoid a qualifying offer- or, if Castellanos stumbles, which I’m sure Boras would pitch as a distinct possibility, then Detroit can play Iggy at third sometimes like Boston did last year.. Worst case scenario, Boras would pitch Castellanos, who has already been groomed for leftfield pre-Fielder trade, could split time with Dirks there and split time with Iggy at third as Iglesias rehabs from injury and is eased back onto the field, and Iglesias can also spot start Drew when Drew needs rest. I’m not saying these are realistic things, for the record, just trying to pitch the idea from Boras’ point of view. He can work around playing time. Stephen Drew improves the Detroit Tigers and the Detroit Tigers now have a need and, presumably, the financial flexibility to fill this need. They are a team in an advantageous position on the win curve that kind of squandered some of their promise as a team via the Fister trade. They need every win possible and this gives them an opening- worry about good problems when they arise later on.
On the flip side, freeing up that 20~ MM in their Fister salary dump makes me seriously question if Detroit *does* have the financial flexibility to make this trade happen.
I don’t know. Drew only makes sense from the standpoint that Detroit needs someone for this year, possibly only part of the season. Nowhere has Drew indicated a desire to not (crazily) proclaim 3 years minimum for a contract. Detroit doesn’t need an aging defense only stopgap shortstop for 3 years. If Drew would be willing to go on a one year deal, this would be a no brainer. But given comments from his camp, I think a trade is more likely for Detroit.
Terrible news for Detroit. Wonder if they’ll be able to get Drew on a one year deal, or they’ll fall victim to Boras. Drew on a one year deal has value, but anything more than that would be unadvised.
Boras would test the market on a chewed up pencil.
From shin splints?
I realize it’s a stress reaction, but all the talk has been that he’d only mmiss a couple weeks of April. What happened?
Its a stress fracture which can take as long to heal as a complete fracture. Playing on it risks a complete fracture, like Jeter did when he broke his ankle.
SS is a physically demanding position, you can’t play on it and expect it heals on its own. He will be on the DL for at least 2 months and then it will take a month to get in playing shape
Its a stress fracture which can take as long to heal as a complete fracture. Playing on it risks a complete fracture, like Jeter did when he broke his ankle.
SS is a physically demanding position, you can’t play on it and expect it heals on its own. He will be on the DL for at least 2 months and then it will take a month to get in playing shape
Darwin Barney and Nate Schierholtz to the Tigers for?
No thanks….
Barney doesn’t provide anything we can’t get from one of our glove first prospects. Schierholtz only helps til the end of May when Dirks should be back. Even the time without Dirks only projects the team to lose about 1 win.
Barney is one of the best gloves out there and can easily move to second or a utility role when Iggy comes back.
We have Ian Kinsler to play 2b for the next 3-4 years and we just traded away one of the top 25 pitchers in the MLB(according to stats over the past 3 years) for a prospect, a reliever, and an INFIELD UTILITY player.
We have no need for Darwin Barney
Depends how much offense they want from the shortstop position. If they want a great glove and someone that can be that be a very nice utility player, a leader, and a reasonable salary, then that is Barney.
We already have most of that covered in our internal options. (Glove, Utility player, reasonable salary). Leadership comes from other areas on this team, but it’s already provided.
No reason to part with prospects for a non upgrade
Munenori Kawasaki
Ruben Tejada for Miguel Cabrera. Who says no?
Wilpon’s deem Cabrera too expensive. Hang up phone.
Haha!
Wilpon’s what deems Cabrera too expensive? Apostrophe usage ftl…
I agree on Barney. He barely is worth his 2.3m salary for the glove since he doesn’t hit at all. Career .628OPS player. They should be able to get him for little to nothing.
Many had him as a non tender candidate this past winter and he will be a non tender this next off season due a raise. Just offer the Cubs the slightest of marginal prospects.
If the Tigers sign Drew, more proof that all it takes is an injury. (Braves, Santana)
I really hope Det does not sign Drew.
he is not worth the draft pick
he is not worth the draft pick
Any sane person and likely 75% of insane people.
I just don’t want to lose that draft pick… our farm is bad enough as is.
Not to mention, Drew is no Iggy with a glove. Sure, he may hit .270ish… but I just gotta believe there are better options out there
What would those options be for a team expecting to be in a World Series?
Perez can handle fielding as well as needed and should hit somewhere in the .230-.250 range. Close enough in my opinion
Believing that Hernan Perez can hit .230-.250 throughout most of a season is unveils ably optimistic.
.200 is closer to reality in the majors.
That is terrible news!
Boras will be asking too much for Drew. Keep the draft pick and try to stay afloat with the young guys…. and there is always someone cut that you do not expect.
Drew fits only if there is a one year deal. I don’t think that is happening with Boras.
Considering where Drew was to begin with, he may a one year deal as long as it is guaranteed he won’t get a Q.O. next year, which I believe if he signs after opening day will happen. And opening day is technically March 22nd in Australia.
No, he would be need to be signed after June 1st to be guaranteed of not being attached to draft-pick compensation..not opening day.
That’s not what Hugh said. He said getting a QO, not ridding his existing draft pick compensation tag. You need to be on the team for the entire season to get a qualifying offer so, supposedly, once opening day hits, Drew is safe to sign a one-year deal and not find himself in this exact same QO-mess next offseason.
Ahh. So, in other words, if a team signs him after opening day but before June 1st they will still forfeit a draft pick but will be unable to offer him a QO? If that is the case, then it doesn’t seem like there’s a chance of that happening.
That’s what, I think, Ken Rosenthal was reporting, yeah. After June 1st a one year deal (which would be pointless at that point, IMO due to loss of salary for missing a third of the season) would both not require the signing team to surrender a draft pick (since the draft is done) and not allow them to offer a QO.
I hope Drew signs in Detroit somehow. I like Stephen Drew and think he’d do well there. Everyone’s a winner in this case, except Iglesias obviously. It does stink that Iggy is gonna miss most of the season, but hopefully this heals and doesn’t affect his long-term outlook much.
Boras is going to win again and get drew a multi year deal or at least 1-14 from detroit
Boras is smart and patient. It remains to be seen if the Tigers sign Drew, but it seems to be a match made for both at 1/14
Drew’s actually an upgrade both offensively and defensively. Will cost the close to 10 mil and the 23rd pick but the Tigers can afford it and they’re built to win now.
If Drew were willing to accept one year and less than what he turned down with Boston, he’d be signed by now.
You’re right, forgot the QO was so high. Could still see a 1 yr/14 mil type deal. Just because it’s the Tigers.
You’re right, forgot the QO was so high. Could still see a 1 yr/14 mil type deal. Just because it’s the Tigers.
He is reluctant to take 1 year to play a position other than SS, or play SS for a losing team like the Mets. In Boston he had Boegarts waiting to take his spot so would be in danger of being a bench player. However, he could take a Santana like deal for 1 year to play SS with a playoff contender. Even when Iglesias came back, the Tigers likely make the same choice as Boston did last year and keep Drew at SS.
As a LH bat who crushes RHP’ers, Drew complements the Tigers lineup quite well.
He has Scott Boras as an agent. I doubt he settles for less than 14.1 MM guaranteed money unless it’s really his wish and he overrules Boras. Boras himself wouldn’t concede defeat.
Drew is not an upgrade defensively.
Perez should be able to hit 250 with plenty of speed. That’s all were getting with Iggy and we have Lombo who should hit 270 with a little power and speed and if he gets a full season 260 12 Hr and 20 SB is not out of range. There is also Saurez but we shouldn’t bring him up already. We don’t need Drew.
Having watched Lombo a good bit with the Nats, I have to say that sounds quite optimistic. Line drives, smart baserunning, solid d at second and third, sure. In my opinion, he lacks the power for 12 bombs, the wheels for 20 sb (uncles you’re willing to live with 12 cs), and the range/hands/arm to play an avg short.
I could be wrong – a scout I am not – but I’d be surprised if he did any of those things if given a full year at short.
More importantly, it really is disappointing we will miss out on Iglesias, whose play on that barehand play up the middle last year was the most mesmerizing I’ve ever seen.
As for the possibility of signing Drew, I wonder if he wouldn’t slide over to third (or second, with Kinsker going to third) upon Iglesias’s return, with Castellanos shifting to left. Long-term, with Hunter set for FA, could make sense to have Drew for more than one year for the same scenario.
The LF experiment didn’t go to well from what I understand. Truth be told, he’s not going to be great defensively anywhere… 3b might be the best spot for him.
You’re talking about Castellanos?
Correct. He’s a subpar defender.
He just isn’t that athletic (relatively speaking). Night and day between him and Espinosa at second, I thought. I did find him easier on the eyes in left field than Morse and Moore, for what that’s worth (not much). I think he’s at least passable and maybe could be avg out there defensively.
But even if he can play average corner OF defense, you don’t want him to spend a lot of time there b/c the bat just doesn’t play. His value is in his versatility and theoretically solid consistency. He is pretty reliably okay, in large part for the same reasons he made the bigs with limited tools – he seems to work hard, pay attention to details, and hustle.
I like and appreciate him, but I’m not surprised Rizzo was willing to deal him. Even the Nats fans who wanted him to get a chance at the the everyday 2B job – the wonderfully nicknamed ‘Lombo Lobby’ – probably didn’t expect 12 HR/20 SB.
Disappointing. He’s got one of the best gloves I’ve seen and makes the toughest plays look routine.
But if the Tigers want a replacement then Drew is a great one. He’s what a shortstop should be, a solid defender.
I wonder if the Mets will stop pretending they don’t want Drew when they find out another team might be vying for his services. I think they were hesitant because they wanted to get him for as cheap as possible.
I legitimately don’t think they want him. 1 year plugins aren’t super enticing to drop a pick and a chunk of cash on for a team with no designs on contending. With or without Drew they’re in 4th or 5th place, without him they have another pick and their 14 million cash.
So I guess you’ve gotta ask, is he worth ~22million (valuing that pick + the salary) in ticket and merchandise sales? Probably not. Good player, maybe not so good investment unless they can get him on a discount at multiple years.
Maybe the balance changes if they had Harvey this year, that guy really is special.
Yes, Harvey isn’t going to be playing this year for the Mets but they have Colon. I don’t see why the Mets feel as though they should just throw away the season just because their ace isn’t going to be there. Colon in the NL (or in that division, specifically) can be an ace or #2 pitcher and IMO the Mets rotation is pretty strong. The Mets are only a few pieces away from contending which is why I’m a bit confused on why they haven’t fixed the holes on their team this offseason. They are a SS, and a few bullpen pieces away from contending.
Outside of Wright the Mets position players are not good. Mets are more than just a few pieces away from contending. they got some great young pitching nearly there. Mets should stay away from Drew..
If I was Drew I would wait until Opening Day to sign to prevent another QO. Drew would have a team IF Boras wasnt his agent IMO.. Boras is so intent on getting his early to mid 30’s good but not great players long term high AAV deals. I can appreciate the dedication by Boras to his clients. But the landscape has shifted and Boras must adapt.. I dont see teams giving up the QO system so easily.. It saves them from overspending on FA.. Every owner loves that..
Wright and Lagares are both all-star type players. They have a bunch of average-above average guys on their team but they can still be competitive if they add a shortstop and a few bullpen pieces. Boras probably did play a role in the decision-making process but it all comes down to what the client wants. Drew had a QO and he also had a multi-year deal from the Yankees. He turned them both down. He will probably take anything he can get at this point
Calling Lagares an “all-star type player” after one small sample size season is a bit of a stretch. He has a lot of work to do offensively and while the stats and eye test line up that he’s a good fielder, I’m curious to see how he does when the league adjusts to his status as a predator for runners on the basepaths. They’ll stop running. While that might sound optimal, Lagares isn’t letting them advance anyway. Surefire first-to-thirds, first-to-homes, second-to-homes, and sacrifice-flies are still going to happen, but in the cases where last year Lagares was gunning them down, it’s likely those runners won’t be turned into outs, severely bringing down his value. Fangraphs rated his arm as the best arm of their 2002-present era, and once that’s regressed significantly (from, say, +16 or whatever it was at, to +6) and you factor in any defensive regression from position, etc. he’s really going to need an offensive improvement to remain a 4-win talent. I don’t see it happening. I think he’ll be above-average, somewhere around 2.5 wins.
There is no way the Mets’ third rounder is worth ~8 million in value… they have a protected first and surrendered their second for Grandy.
Man, the Tigers will never have a draft pick, will they?
They can give Drew a QO and get one if he does not accept it.
They shouldn’t because he may take them up on it, after this year’s experience. $30M for two years of Drew is an enormous amount of money to pay, plus sitting Iglesias when he’s healthy.
They can give Drew a QO and get one if he does not accept it.
Wonder what it’d take to pry Nick Franklin and Charlie Furbush from the Ms… Would rather do that than take Drew.
Tigers could use more bp help anyway
Would Austin Jackson be on the table?
No… He’s a Tigers regular and they plan to compete. Be looking at pitching prospects (guys like Robbie Ray and Jake Thompson) and OF prospects (Like Moya, Fields, Collins)
M’s want help now, right handed bats, outfielders. Be surprised to see them take prospects at this point
If Austin Jackson were on the table, I would guess it’d take more. I don’t see Franklin as *that* good of a value going forward.
Yeah, that is exactly what I would do. I would think it would take something like a pitching prospect(Drew Verhagen?) and a catching prospect(James Mccann?)
I think it takes more than that. Probably quite a bit more
Not even in the vicinity of being in the neighborhood of being close. Tigers have no one in the minors the M’s would take for Franklin alone, let alone him and Furbush.
And why would the Tigers want Franklin who’s greatest selling point is that he’s under team contract for yeeeears…. Tigers need a short-medium term fix, not a long term solution. Drew is probably the only option.
Ask the guy who suggested it.
If there’s two things the M’s have plenty of, it’s pitching and catching prospects. They want to contend ASAP, prospect don’t help in that regard.
The alternative is Drew while losing a first round pick and 10M+ per year so we’ll take couple of those top prospects for the 2 F’s.
The alternative is Drew while losing a first round pick and 10M+ per year so we’ll take couple of those top prospects for the 2 F’s.
Hopefully, they do not panic. Put Perez in there and see if he can handle it. Lombardozzi might be able to be serviceable there. At least we know that the #9 position in the batting order is locked up.
Maybe they can trade with Padres for Alexi Amarista.It would save Detriot millions and would only cost them a prospect.
He doesn’t really seem like he’d be much(if any)of an upgrade over Perez or Lombardozzi. OBP under .300
He is decent.Wont get to play much in SD.
time to suit up… OMAR VIZQUEL!
This reminds me a few years back (2012) when Fielder signed with the Tigers. At the time the thought was Fielder had no place to go combined with being a Scott Boras client was asking too much in money and years. Then Victor got hurt and Ilitch signs Fielder. Two years later Drew has no home, Iglesias gets hurt and ….fill in the blanks but Drew will be a Tiger. Scott Boras has his horseshoe working this year.
NSA please hack Z’s phone and block Dombrowski’s number. I swear the Tigers are just going to steal Franklin away like they did with Fister…
Yeah, the Fister and Morrow trades were not the pinnacle of Jack Z’s career….
Alexi Ramirez for a decent prospect-, and a middling one-
I don’t think the ChiSox would want to do their division rivals any favors.
They didn’t mind being a key part of the three way trade last summer. They don’t consider themselves contenders this season.
You couldnt be more wrong. This is a forgotten season for my White Sox. They gain by addition by subtraction by developing therir own kids. They further weaken and strengthten their farm system by what they get in low minor league talent and at the same team weaken Detroits future .
From Detroits purposes they get a shortstop who will not be the albatross that would result from a ling term Boras deal with Drew as Aram as he is called by Sox fans isnt tied to more than 2015 when Iglesias should return.
The only question is who do we get from Detroit. Perhaps a 3 way trade with the Yankees involving one of their many catchers
Even if Iglesias will not miss the whole season, Drew still makes sense for them. They are a bit RH heavy and Drew kills RHP’ers. When Iglesias is ready to return, Drew will certainly have trade value. They actually might consider keeping Drew around a few years and trading Iglesias like the Red Sox did when facing a similar choice.
In Baltimore Machado has had a set back, he is not even running yet, so Drew makes sense for them as well if they want to spend the 13 million they had earmarked for Santana. Not only won’t he cost them a 1st round pick, they also have a hole at 2B, and Hardy is a free agent after this year and has an awful OPB, especially against RHP’ers whom Drew crushes.
.
Would Drew want to move to third base for a team like Baltimore?
Drew’s a perfect fit there. He’s better than Iglesias overall anyway (Iglesias really isn’t much above Brendan Ryan territory.
You do realize Iglesias still has time to develop his bat? He will probably worth more (in terms of WAR) just with his defense than most SS with defense and offense combined.
No guarantees it will develop. He was exceptionally lucky last year with a bunch of bloopers and IF hits
Ichiro was lucky like that for 10 years.
Lies from Bowden, bottom line.
Maybe in Bowden’s tweet he left out the part where he meant “will miss most of 2014 Spring Training season.”
Haha, nice!
Lies from Bowden, bottom line.
As a Tigers fan I want no part of Stephen Drew unless it’s for one year. Most 31 year old SS don’t age well, and he’s never been a wizard with the glove.
Iglesias the wizard made a rather key error against the Red Sox in the playoffs. Drew played great defense all year for the Red Sox, and when it came to choose who to trade and who to play, they kept Drew. Crushes RHP’ers as a LHB’er which this heavy handed RH lineup needs
Iglesias the wizard made a rather key error against the Red Sox in the playoffs. Drew played great defense all year for the Red Sox, and when it came to choose who to trade and who to play, they kept Drew. Crushes RHP’ers as a LHB’er which this heavy handed RH lineup needs
He may be no wizard, but his defense is good.
Coke Nick Franklin
I wish. A joke, yes?
Danny Worth? Ramon Santiago in a Trade? One of Out of Option IF.
We don’t have Ramon Santiago anymore. I think he is on the Cincinnati Reds.
Please Tigers don’t bail out Boras again.
Boras has had a pretty good year whith Choo and Ellsbury signed for close to 300 million. That’s about 15 million in commissions. Doubt he is losing sleep over Drew as he knows he will get him signed. Morales is probably a tougher sell.
A first-round pick is a pretty steep price to pay for one year of Stephen Drew, IMO.
Then go for 3-4 years. The Braves just gave up a 1st round pick for 1 yr of Santana who basically produced the same WAR as Drew last year
Why would we sign Drew 3-4 years? We have Iggy locked up for that time period.
You don’t know Iggy is going to be much more than a Brendan Ryan ++, and its not like you can’t trade Drew for something useful. Might even trade Kinsler and move Drew to 2B.
I think you want the draft pick in the worst way.
I think it’s fairly safe to infer that the Tigers gave away Doug Fister to save money in preparation for their upcoming contract quagmire with Scherzer and Cabrera. I don’t see them giving Drew the money they would’ve spent on Fister.
Besides, they have Iglesias locked up for years, and they gave up a fine prospect to get him, so I highly doubt they’re gonna be keen on having him riding the bench waiting for Drew to get hurt for the umpteenth time.
Should Have offered Jhonny Peralta a qualifying offer…….:(
Not offering it was a huge mistake.
Worse case, he accepts and you play him in LF like he did in the playoffs.
Best case, he declines and you get a comp pick. Then losing the first rounder wouldn’t be an issue and he could just slide in a SS now
If they knew they could unload Fielder they would have. Worst case was fielder at first, Miggy at third, Peralta in left and castellanos wasting away in Toledo.
Not offering it was a huge mistake.
Worse case, he accepts and you play him in LF like he did in the playoffs.
Best case, he declines and you get a comp pick. Then losing the first rounder wouldn’t be an issue and he could just slide in a SS now
No one can tell the Tigers how to spend their money, but this one seems like a waste. Unless the injury is career threatening, they should figure out how to make do rather than committing a great deal of money and the pick. Overreacting and making a bad signing is serious mistake. Didn’t they move Fister in order to reduce payroll? Why hand it and much more to someone who won’t be that valuable to the in a few months?
I bet they could get a pretty nice short stop for doug fister
You mean the guy who has been sidelined with shoulder problems twice this ST?
His shoulder wasn’t sore when they traded him. They recieved a poor package for one of the more underrated pitchers in the game, that’s just a well known fact at this point.
Teams tend to know their own players pretty well. Might have had some soreness last year that had him in the trainers room for more work than usual. These guys are horse traders, and they know their own horses
That doesn’t change the poor package they got for him unless every other team knew Doug Fister that well too, which I doubt they did. If that was their basis for trading him, fine, but they still didn’t maximize his value in the trade. They could’ve gotten more (like, say, a shortstop, as was the original point) in the trade, but sold low for some reason.
We won’t know about this trade until the two years of team control of fister and the 16 years of team control the tigers get from the youngsters plays out. I trust the tigers scouts. They have a great record the last 8 years judging their own and others talent.
They didn’t need a shortstop when they dealt Fister. They needed a bullpen lefty, a replacement for Santiago, and to get some better long-term pitching prospects in Toledo. They got exactly that.
This is true, but they still could have gotten more (or better versions of the players you had mentioned) given Fister’s current value.
If the Tigers sold low because they knew he was sore, then the Nationals have a grievance to file for knowingly trading a hurt player without saying anything.
Pretty sure the Nats had their shot at a physical before approving the trade.
A physical only goes so far. Remember when the Nationals traded away Gary Majewski to the Reds, who in turn filed a grievance because they were unaware he had taken a cortisone shot for arm pain?
You mean the guy who has been sidelined with shoulder problems twice this ST?
fister plays for the nationals now
oh wait
Reyes, Romero, Santos, for Sherzer
Jays sign Drew
I’ve gotta believe money would have to be involved as well. It’s an interesting thought, but losing our number 2 pitcher(really 1b) and replacing him with a guy that may never be even mediocre in the MLB is a scary thought. I just don’t see a match there.
I’m not sure if that was serious. That is the most pathetic offer I have seen yet for the Cy Young
I am a big fan of Iggy but I think the Tigers are a better team, and more balanced offensively with Drew at SS. Being in the weak division that they are in though they might think they can get by with a lesser option.
It is interesting that no one is even discussing the option of one of two shortstops on Arizona. Have you forgotten Owings, Gregorius and everyone is down on Tejada in New York. A change of scenery would probably work to his benefit, but the question then asked is what would the Mets or Diamondbacks ask for one of their young players. Franklin is now blocked in Seattle by Miller’s performance, which makes four cost-controlled players to choose from, instead of one FA named Drew that still wants 3 – 4 years and 15 Million a season. Drew is no guarantee to be an improvement on any of those players, but he is a known name, which is all he has going for him, but at his salary turns him into a liability very quickly. If he was worth the qualifying offer, teams would have signed him in December to what he wants, but that wasn’t the case.
Agreed.
I think the Dombrowski is looking for a trade.
Excellent observation!! I think the main issue going forward for the Tigers is how long will Iggy be out in 2014 and/or is this a career injury issue. So far they feel its very short term. If that is the case, all these young players mentioned really are not any better than the internal options they have considering they would have to give up some prospect. Now if he is going to miss 3-6 months or this is a serious career ending injury or one that will limit his annual playing time, then all options should be explored.
I was acutally wondering if either of the AZ SS might be available, but again… that’d have to lead to a trade eventually of either Owings/Gregorius or Iggy.
Where did you hear Drew wants 3-4 years @ $15million each? I think at this point he’d take a Nelson Cruz type contract for one-year, and I doubt he was ever figuring on more than 2-3 years until JP got his contract.
If he were willing to take a Nelson Cruz-type one-year deal, he’d be the Mets’ starting SS right now. It’s pretty clear that Drew/Boras are asking for significantly more money, and from what I’ve read, they’re looking for a multi-year contract with an opt-out clause after the first year. Frankly ridiculous for a platoon SS well past his prime.
The problem with signing Drew short-term is the $14+M and a pick is a lot to pay for one year. The problem with signing him long term is that they don’t need him. That’s not to run him down, but someone is going to have to sit, and Iglesias shouldn’t be once he can get back on the field.
Sign him to a 3 year deal and trade him when you don’t need him. Or trade Iglesias if he has more value. A 3/40 deal is hardly an unmovable contract or one that breaks the bank for the most important defensive position on the field.
I didn’t look, but do you have an OF’er that is close to being MLB ready? Franklin is a pretty good player, don’t be fooled by his BA last year, he hit well, then hit a few HR’s and tried to swing for the fence the rest of the year. That, and the teams got some tape on him, he is hitting well in ST. I would like Seattle to keep him, but we just over paid for Bloomquist,. When Iglesias comes back he can fill in at 3rd,2nd, and SS for you, or be used a trade piece. Plus you owe us after the fleecing Jack took on the Fister deal.
I think all 3 of the OF prospects the Tigers have are still a year or 2 away.
I didn’t look, but do you have an OF’er that is close to being MLB ready? Franklin is a pretty good player, don’t be fooled by his BA last year, he hit well, then hit a few HR’s and tried to swing for the fence the rest of the year. That, and the teams got some tape on him, he is hitting well in ST. I would like Seattle to keep him, but we just over paid for Bloomquist,. When Iglesias comes back he can fill in at 3rd,2nd, and SS for you, or be used a trade piece. Plus you owe us after the fleecing Jack took on the Fister deal.
Here’s the Pirates chance to dump Clint Barmes!
So Jim Bowden is a doctor now? To suggest, in MARCH, that Iggy will miss most of the season with shin splints is irresponsible. Iggy is frustrated, and he may be expressing his frustration (given the source is a “player” close to Iggy). But unless the Tiger’s medical staff comes out and says this, would treat this story with great suspicion.
Additionally, Drew is unsigned, and there will be rumors surrounding him until he signs. He is NOT worth a draft pick, period. I’d rather work a sign and trade with the Red Sox than give up the first round draft pick.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you regarding missing the entire year, but I have also had pretty horrible shin problems my entire life. Two years ago I developed shin splints in March and I didn’t feel better until well into autumn. I could walk alright, but running, even just 40-50 feet, made me feel like someone had just beaten my shins with a sledgehammer. My shin splints got so bad my doctor ordered an MRI. Shin splints come in grades, and some are a lot worse than others.
Don’t disagree with you either, they do come in grades. But there is just no way to know how long he’ll miss in March
We can’t, but he might.
I just want to know how they are so sure that he is going to miss the whole season. What because some unknown source who is supposedly close to jose iglesias says so. Im not buying it. Until the tigers organization says so im gonna hold out hope for the defensive whiz kid.
darwin barney
Not interested.
His bat is below average and we have prospects with above average gloves we could put in there.
Ehire Adrianza from sf is out of options and behind Crawford. He’s very good defensively and has shown signs of getting better with the bat. Detroit can get him cheap and take a flyer on him.
Stephen Drew is not worth a 1st rd pick. even at 23rd. This draft has 10-15 Verlander potentials in it, the pitching is beyond deep. Signing Drew not only is a band-aid for 1year that helps Detroit little overall, but then rather than keep up with the rest of the league with future Ace potential talent with this draft, they instead would fall behind. Double Whammy lose-lose situation.
They signed Fielder when V-Mart got hurt, this is nowhere near as large. Their 84 yo owner hardly cares about the future value of a draft pick, which in most cases is worth nothing much
That 84-year old owner also supposedly had his GM dump Doug Fister because cash was tight and they’re saving up to lock in Scherzer and/or Cabrera long-term. If they wanted to be better than they are right now, not trading Doug Fister and keeping the 23rd pick in the draft was the way to go.
You’re trying to compare Fielder a man who plays 160 games who possessed 50HR ability as a kneejerk signing to this scenario of signing Drew?
You’re right most cases later round draft picks aren’t much but this draft class is filled with flamethrowing 95+MPH HS And College Arms who have secondary offerings on top of it. 2014 draft class could go down as the best Pitching draft class ever. This isn’t a normal worth nothing much case when losing their pick.
I actually did not know this. It could explain the even-more-than-usual reluctance to surrender these picks.
There were 8-10 highly regarded arms with 5-10 keep your eye on arms. And just about all of those 5-10 have improved. Carlos Rodon isn’t a for sure #1 pick anymore. I would not be surprised when Tyler Kolek goes #1 with 100+MPH FB.
It also explains a lot why the Blue Jays haven’t come to terms with a QO attached player. The Blue Jays are going to find themselves lucky they didn’t sign their pick last year to have it for this year.
The Blue Jays #1 pick is protected.
yes and their 2nd pick is 11th overall. not protected.
It’s protected as well. Would be their second rounder.
Really? why? it’s outside the top 10?
They failed to sign last years protected pick (10th overall), so they are penalized one slot but do not lose protection on the pick.
Wait really? That’s messed up then! Because the Pirate’s iirc protected pick of last year pushed the Mets out of having a protected pick. So why is this different?
Pirates lost their 8th overall pick and were awarded the 9th overall as a result. The Mets had the 10th worst record, but the Pirates had the 9th pick, so whomever had the 9th pick, the Jays, were pushed to 10th, and Mets pushed to 11th.
The Jays didn’t sign their 10th pick last year, so they get the 11th this year.
And it the pattern continues, whoever is supposed to get the 11th pick, but has been pushed to 12th by the Jays, will fail to sign. Just because patterns are fun.
But really, it didn’t hurt the Mets much. They got the best bat in the draft, and who could potentially be the best player from the draft overall, Dominic Smith, with their 11th pick last year.
So call it a knee twitch compared to the Fielder knee jerk. They still have a hole which needs filling now.
Pitchers are among the most unreliable of prospects and I think 10-15 Verlanders is hyperbole. They have a significant injury nexus. Interesting to know the draft is considered to be a good one, that could explain the higher value being placed on the pick, but what is available at 23 and how the pick does several years down the road is something an 84 yo owners may not care much about
If the Tigers can wing it for a little bit, I think Rollins will be willing to accept a trade in June, after he’s become the Phillies’ new all-time hit leader. That’s the only reason he’s rejecting trades.
By popping up?
Plus, he’s batting what .150 this spring and that might be too high.
I don’t think the Tigers would be interested in J Roll.
They might be interested in Nick Franklin or someone from the Diamondbacks.
Or maybe someone internally, I just can’t see DD signing Drew.
Then again who really knows.
As J-Roll recently said so well himself, spring training stats hardly matter. Rollins is a below average hitter and probably an average-at-best shortstop at this stage, a 1.5-2-win player.
Probably meant a more offensive-oriented infield
Signing drew would be the dumbest thing the tigers ever do. The tigers play in the weakest division in the american league.
Making yourself a better team is never dumb. You never who know is going to go down with an injury. They could probably live without Drew if everyone stays healthy, but there is no guarantee everyone will be healthy. Last year the Tigers needed a SS for a few months and gave up a top prospect to get one. They should do the same now.
Last year presented a perfect storm. I don’t think the deal would have ever happened had Garcia not been shacking up with Fielder’s wife. It just so happened that that we needed a short stop at the time. But had Garcia not threatened the clubhouse I’m not so sure they would have made the deal. I think they would have filled the position with someone in house. The ramifications of that indiscretion ended with the trade of Fielder, who felt betrayed by fellow clubhouse members who supposedly knew it was happening. Just hoping Iggy makes a full recovery and has a long career here in Detroit. Don’t need to make that bad situation any worse.
Would signing drew grantee a world series ring?
No, doing nothing by going internal would be the dumbest move
Imo neither drew or iggy will make a difference offensively. As long as their internal options can produce defensively they should be fine.
If they sign Drew and Iglesias comes back half way through the season what do you do with Drew? I would use Lombardozzi and Perez at short, along with possibly adding Danny Worth back to the forty man just as an emergency. Don’t waste the money, let alone the draft pick, when you could possibly wait until after spring training for some NRI guy to be released.
Trade him, or Iglesias, or use them in a platoon situation.
Why trade Iglesias? There are plenty of other guys out there that can the starting short stop for a while. Pedro Ciriaco might get cut from the Royals, he has the ability to be a good ball player. After Han-Ram started last year on the DL the Dodgers didn’t go buy a player, they used in house options such as Justin Sellers who was the opening day SS. Don’t spend money because your SS is on the DL. Use internal or cheap options until he comes back.
It’s not like Drew won’t have trade value. The question, though, is whether Drew asks for some trade protection (assuming he wants to actually stay put) because if we’re thinking of these possibilities, I’m sure Boras and Drew are too.
I don’t think Drew cares who ends up with him at this point , and he is not going to jeapordize a deal with a request for trade protection..
It’s Stephen Drew’s life; I’m sure he cares very much where he, himself, spends the next year of his life. It’s a business and he has the opportunity to avoid a potential lame-duck situation when Iglesias comes back, so he might want to take it.
Pretty sure he would prefer being traded anywhere to being a bench player and lame duck when Iglesias comes back. The premise that he would be the one on the bench when Iglesias comes back is probably false anyways. He was the Red Sox choice to start over Iglesias last year and likely will be Detroits choice this year when Iglesias comes back.
When you have multiple offers, then you can choose where you want to play, not when you are looking for that 1st offer thats is withing the parameters of what you can accept. That’s the reality. I wish I was in Hawaii rather than China, buts its not going to happen for me. You go where you gotta be, and for Drew thats wherever he has a job that pays him to start.
Drew would LOVE to get traded — it means he can’t be saddled with another QO next season. And heck, non-contenders don’t trade for veterans at the deadline so it means he’s going to another contender. It’s really the greatest thing that could happen to him.
Interesting that Boras also represents Iglesias, so he probably knows the true extent of Iglesias injury and will make sure the Tigers don’t rush him back and jrisk his health. (grinning)
I want to know why DD, in all his glory, didn’t know Iggy came with this as a chronic problem. It seems this is nothing new…just more severe. Oh Jhonny, oh Doug, we miss ye.
The fact the Red Sox were willing to trade him is a good indicator. Most of the players they trade or let go get diagnosed with some injury or decline rapidly. Nomar, Manny, Beckett, Pedro, Bay, Crawford, Agon, Beckett, V-Mart, Youkillis, Papelbon. There are a few exceptions like Damon, Masterson, Reddick and Arroyo but for the most part beware any ex-Red Sox player.
That’s perhaps the reason teams are skittish of Drew, but the Red Sox had Boegarts coming up so its a bit different
A couple things are wrong with your post. First of all, Martinez did not decline or have a PREDICTABLE injury after they let him go. Secondly, all these guys you named were past there prime and were showing signs of decline. Iglesias was 23 at the time of the trade.
Almost everything gets blown out of proportion in spring training.
I’m not sure what the rush to sign Drew is. There doesn’t seem to be an intense demand for him, and the Tigers might be well advised to get greater visibility on the injury, what they have in house, and what Drew’s true market is.
The market for Drew is what a buyer is willing to pay that Drew accepts. Until he signs, we won’t know what his true market is, but by then it will be too late.
Of the free agemts that have signed with a draft pick comp, their average WAR in 2013 was only 0.2 WAR more than what Drew produced. They signed for an average of 14.5 million and 4 years.
I can see from your many posts you have a strong interest in Drew and that he gets a large contract. I’m not questioning whether Drew is a solid player. But I wouldn’t rush if I were the Tigers–they really should find out the severity of the injury and whether the backups can handle it intermediate term. Drew, through his agent, has indicated a willingness to wait until June. That might be enough time for the Tigers to be certain of their needs. If someone snaps him up with an offer that doesn’t currently seem to be our there right now, so be it. Solid player, could add to some teams, but at the price, not necessarily a compelling value.
Yeah, Scott promised me 1% commission. LOL. I am sure the Tigers have been monitoring this situation for awhile now and have a good idea of what their in-house options are. They did the same last year when Peralta was suspended. They know the options are poor. These type of injuries can take months to heal, especially at a physically demanding position like SS.
The calculus for them is if they think the division is so weak they can do without more than a replacement level SS. With no Fister and Verlander doubtful to start the season, and the offense a bit weakened with Fielders departure, I just don’t think so.
Drew will not be considering a 1 yr deal in June, that will be off the table. With more teams in on him due to the lack of a draft pick being attached to him, he will be back to 3-4 years and probably gets it. Why would the Tigers think the price goes down in June with more teams bidding. There will be teams who have injuries and disappointing players in the IF who will be looking to upgrade to stay in the race.
That said, looking at their payroll, I am not sure they can afford him. They are at 157 million already so maybe they look at a cheaper option.
LOL, I didn’t say you are on Boras’ payroll. But, given how authoritative you seem to be on the inner workings of the Drew and Boras minds, it’s easy to imagine that you chat with both regularly. You and I disagree on this one. I think the market is telling Drew what he’s worth right now, and he obviously doesn’t want to take that deal. I think the Tigers should be cautious before signing him–I don’t see Boras offering a great bargain to a team in distress. As to your suggestion that more teams will be bidding in June–it’s quite possible that needs would be clarified at that time and the price of the pick would no longer come into play. That’s speculative. It’s a free country and Drew can wait until the market comes to him, or he decides to take a lesser deal.
instead of signing drew the tigers could do a 3 team trade with the another team and the white sox and aquire alexei rameriez.
They need somebody who is a one year deal and is good. Asdrubal Cabrera is the perfect fit, he is a buy low candidate and the Tigers can give up prospects a Lindor takes his place.
Lindor hasn’t gotten past AA yet. Not to mention, why would the Indians give Cabrera to a team in the division that finished one win ahead last year?
Teams don’t really buy low ever on trades within their own division.
Considering we got Doug Fister for Charlie Furbush I’d say Evan Reed for Nick Franklin sounds reasonable.
SS Didi Gregorius straight up for catching prospect James McCann. Make it happen Kevin Towers.
Why would the Tigers get another young SS when they have one already? Next year they’ll have to trade one because Iglesias will be better (could be late this year in fact). They need a vet to fill in for a year, not a kid. They need Drew. It’s just crying out to get done.
everyone is forgetting the Tigers are trying Lombo at short if he can play thereu have a SH playing ss probably with avg to below avg D plus u save money and a 1st round pick. Hernan could play there and hit probably around .225 with good D
Jake Peavy will be with the sox this year and next with an 2015 player option plus a possible 2016 QO if he holds up. Looks like that deal might turn out for the sox. Iglesias was really weak stick. His defense made him a valuable player but Bogearts is going to hit, and Iglesias isn’t.
He needs 255 innings pitched in ’14 for the option to kick in.
Your right but if it doesn’t, they have the QO for 2015 and the pick could be valuable
There’s really no if. Peavy will not pitch 255 innings. The QO will all depend on his performance. He’ll need to have a pretty good year to be in a position to decline the QO and the Red Sox will be aware that there’s a good chance he’ll take it if he has a so-so year.
It goes to my point that Peavy will be available to the sox even if he has a mediocre year, he will pitch for 3 yrs for the sox. 2013 2014 and QO 2015 or get a pick. The deal for Iglesias will be valuable to the sox if they get 2yrs and a pick or 3 years.
It isn’t 3 years. He was a trade deadline acquisition.
Even if Peavy repeats his 2012 season, he’ll likely accept the QO, which will be valued between 15-16 million next year. He’ll be a 33 year old with major consistency problems who saw what happened to this year’s FA class. There’s no pick for the Red Sox with Peavy. He’d accept an QO if offered and it’s hard to say that he’d be worth that kind of money.
The Iglesias trade was to help them down the 2013 stretch. The fact that the won the World Series and that Iglesias has fallen apart means that the Sox won’t necessarily regret the trade, but it won’t be heralded either. Peavy isn’t really a valuable player.
All due respect, I think your under valueing Peavy and his market value. He’s not Dempster. He has won 132 games in MLB. He went 12-5 last year and is 32 yrs old. You alluded to his excellent 2012 season. One year 15 million QO is a no brainer if his arm doesn’t fall off. If he pitches well in 2014 accepts the QO and pitches well in 2015, we will be heralding this trade.
Even if W-L is supposed to matter in the year 2014, that total isn’t really anything to write home about.
Peavy is not drastically different from Dempster and there’s little reason to pay him 15 million.
So a 32 year old pitcher with sustained success in MLB doesn’t have 1yr 15mil QO value? Disagree Rev. Did you watch the pitchers market this winter? Have to believe a QO for Peavy will be a no brainer barring significant injury. Agree to disagree. Nolasco 4/50 Jiminez 4/50 Ervin Santana 1/14. Peavy’s track record better than any of them.
His success is not sustained, it’s sporadic. His last two back to back great years were 07-08. Since then he’s made over 30 starts in a season once.
Peavy’s track record is not better than Nolasco or Santana and it’s doubtful that he’s going to be better than Jiminez at this point. At one point in his career, he was a better pitcher. Aside from 2012, he’s been injured or ineffective most of the time. That doesn’t lead to a long multiyear deal when he’ll be 33 heading into free agency.
According to fangraphs, Peavy is only a slightly worse pitcher than Matt Garza.
The deal definitely worked out for the WHITE Sox!
Not yet it could, but the guy hasn’t done anything yet
oops the white sox kid having season ending surgery. Wish him a quick recovery
The Tigers could pursue one of the Dbacks shortstops or Nick Franklin if they don’t want to pay for Drew
What would it take to get Franklin or Owings?
A catching prospect and/or pitching prospect
Didi is the more likely dbacks SS as Owings just got the starting gig. Didi likely cost us McCann plus a pitching prospect
Ms want a near ready outfielder. Prob need a 3 team deal for that.
The Dbacks would prefer Curt Casali instead of McCann
We don’t have Casali anymore. I think he went to Rays for Lobstein last year.
Tigers don’t need a prospect, they need a veteran.
An example? Cabrera?
The tigers could use a short term SS solution and another left handed bat. As has been pointed out, Drew does have good splits against right handlers.
This only makes sense on a one year deal with a promise from boras that Drew would turn down a 2014 QO by the Tigers if offered. Doubt he accepts that. Most likely outcome is a June 1 Detroit one year signing if he can’t get a multi year deal elsewhere.
Will be a lot more teams in on Drew come June., A multi-year offer is all but guaranteed at that time and the Tigers can forget about 1 yr
The more I think if I am Drew I won’t take a 1 yr deal from the Tigers. I would still want 3 years. Boras knows his own client in Iglesias pretty well and knows Iglesias has a chronic injury, and he probably makes sure the Tigers understand that, given Iglesias is a long way from free agency.
This could be the end of Iglesias as a regular every day SS. There is something in his biomechanics and/or DNA that pre-disposes him to this injury, plus he bulked up a bit the past couple of years. He was Arods workout partner a couple of years ago, so there is that too.
Drew still has his sights on NY. Its not clear yet Jeter can handle the position and stay healthy and that park is made for Drew. Of course, the AL Central is a weak division especially if you don’t have to face the Tigers pitching, so maybe that offsets the park advantage
The smart GM’s knew this was a deep Draft for a year now. Now just need the money to sway them from College, the High School kids. 1-100 good with the High Schoolers. Top 50 are very good.
With the injury nexus ahead of them high school pitchers are the most difficult to project and have a huge bust rate. If this draft gets 3 very good SP’ers at the MLB level down the road in the first 2 rounds from the HS class it will probably be a very good one.
If the Tigers can find another option than Drew they should go for it. No sense in losing the draft pick if you dont have to. Nick Franklin would be a good trade if they could make it, but they already have Iglesias for a few more years so a one year stop gap solution might be best.
To make a trade you have to trade a guy who was drafted and developed and shows promise. A draft pick at #23 is a bust 70% of the time and and an insignificant player who may stick around in MLB for a few seasons 25% of the time. One in 20 become a league average or better player and have decent careers. Its not like the NBA, NFL, NHL where picks are pretty much a slam dunk
yeah im aware. theres still a monetary valuation per pick that teams still consider though.
There is no need to panic. They were expecting a weak bat and superior defense.
If they look in house, they will have a weaker bat and an above average defense. With any luck, a guy like Perez will step up and show he is ready to be a solid big league player which would make his value go up in a trade when Iglesias is ready to come back.
Perhaps they lost 2 wins here. Not enough to cost them the division.
Given the strong 2014 draft, I would value that draft pick at about $8-10MM. Including the amount they have to pay Drew, is it really worth ~$20MM to get Drew for a year?
With the way Worth is playing this spring use him??? He’s finally healthy and he is still a defensive upgrade over peralta (i think) and an offensive upgrade over iggy (debatable because of the injuries/ups and downs)
If Detroit was so intent on trading Doug Fister, they should have, at the bare minimum, asked for Espinosa instead of Lombardozzi.
The Tigers made a good trade at the time. The PR problem for the Tigers is that fans do not understand how salaries for young players work.
The Tigers made the very reasonable assumption that all three players they got would have a high probability of being productive for 15+ years of collective service AND would have salaries near the league minimum for a while.
They traded 15+ years of service at near the league minimum (for most of those years) for 2 years of Fister.
If everything pans out as they expect, they will save $50MM+ over the next 6 years by making this trade.
Espinosa in the equation would have likely meant that Krol would not be in the equation. Tigers wanted 3 league minimum guys, not 2.
Getting players cheap and productive is much harder than fans think. The Rays and As know this, but causal fans do not.
That’s … in the running for the Oscar for best performance in a rationalizing role.
They traded a top 20 pitcher who wasn’t making a lot of money (relatively) for three guys who may never amount to a hill of beans. One has a chance to be something significant, but he’s the farthest away. They could have gotten WAY more from any number of other teams (as has been shown by several reporters) and could have gotten as much for Porcello instead of Fister (who make about the same $$). Just a horrible trade. If it works out for them that’s just pure luck.
If the trade was simply the rights to Fister for $40MM, would you do it?
If your answer is yes, then this trade makes a lot of sense.
The downside is perhaps $30MM savings. The upside (if Ray is a #2 or #3), is $75MM savings. Realistically $40MM should be a lock. Risk is spread through 3 players instead of just Fister.
… And it is possible, maybe even probable that Porcello out pitches Fister the next 5 years (he is 4 years younger).
And healthier. Fister has some elbow soreness that doesn’t show up on MRIs
So, one of the smartest, most successful GM’s in the game could have gotten more for Fister but turned it down? They had specific needs to fill. They weren’t looking to get the biggest haul of talent they could get to get blocked behind their starters.
I don’t think most Tigers fans misunderstand this goal, I think they just feel like it’s kind of a huge gamble to give up one of the game’s best starting pitchers with 2 years left on the contract for 3 guys who MIGHT work out long-term and cheap. I get there’s a lot of money saved, but Drew’s situation shows a guy like Lombo (who is basically replacing Santiago) can be had plenty easy. Krol is a total unknown and they’re banking on him to be THE lefty in the BP. Ray is a strong prospect, but so was Jacob Turner (remember the uproar when we dealt him for Infante and Sanchez? how’d swapping proven talent for prospects work out for Miami then?).
Unless their budget is WAY tighter than anticipated, it makes more sense to keep Fister this year, keep Smyly in the BP and hope Coke or Crosby can back him up, then next season you see 1) can Max repeat and earn a long-term payday 2) does Rick step up with better defense and make himself a valuable trade chip or Doug expendable and 3) can Perez or Worth or someone else play as well as Santiago (because Fister is way more valuable than that upgrade).
Tigers are too close, smart move is sign Drew. Tough break about Iggy, but have to think this year, not worry about pick.
This is fascinating. The news on Iglesias’ health is coming by way of Boston, and his former manager is talking about how they had to monitor him for the same issue. I’m sure Detroit did their due diligence, but the team that benefited from the trade is the same team that will benefit from Drew signing, and the same city that seems to have all the inside info.
Same with Beckett, his former trainer with the Red Sox said he had symptoms of TOC in 2011 and sure enough he needed surgery last year for the problem while with the Dodgers. Red Sox usually know what they are doing when they release or trade a player. Not always, but seems so here.
That is something Farrell really shouldn’t say. Makes it sound like they were dumping damaged goods on Detroit.
If they disclosed it at the time of the trade there is no harm. If they did not disclose it the Tigers have a pretty good case against them, although Bud and JWH are pretty tight
The Tigers reviewed all the medical records at the time of the trade. They confirmed it. Iggy said in September he was battling shin splints all year but expected rest to cure it. Doubt the Red Sox hid the truth from the player or the Tigers.
Like I said, if that’s what they did there is no harm. Shin splints is not a term any good doctor would use, the correct term would be a medial tibia stress syndrome, and the diagnosis would be based on MRI or bone scan. If they did not do any of those tests, the results would not be in his records, and one reason not to do the tests would because they might find something that would hurt his trade value. All kinds of ways to play the system. Not knowing what was in the records or what tests the Red Sox did I can’t say they did that. Seems improbable.
I think everybody, including Iggy and the doctors thought it was shin splints and would heal quickly.
He missed a few games in September and no one was overly alarmed by it.
I’m a Yankees fan, but I really doubt the Red Sox would deliberately suppress medical records to dump a player. Even putting aside the morality of it, a cold business decision tells you that when you get a rep for cheating, people remember it.
The Blue Jays could offer a solution in return for a starting pitcher…
Normally I wouldn’t advocate giving up draft pick for 1 year of Drew but the Tigers are in a unique position were it makes a ton of sense for both Drew and the Tigers. The Tigers have arguably a one year window to go for a WS title. Scherzer will be a FA after the season and their core is aging. For the Tigers it is in their best interest to load up for 2014. For Drew it makes sense to sign a one year deal the day after opening day. He would then be ineligible to receive a QO next year and can hit the market unencumbered by a QO.
that makes a lot of sense
I disagree, sign Scherzer to an extension and wait until June to sign Drew and save the 1st round pick. They’ll be fine until then.
Why give up the pick when Drew’s market is seemingly non existent? They can wait until after the draft, keep the first round pick and sign him.
If the Tigers are really going for a WS in 2014 it makes no sense to play 2 1/2 months with a below average SS. Those early games can be a difference maker.
The Tigers have arguably the easiest path to the postseason in all of baseball; those early games will affect their WS chances less than other teams.
Miggy will carry the offense anyway, just get someone cheap who can play good defensively there until you can sign Drew. The division is the Tigers to lose in my opinion. Cleveland got worse and the only other threat in the central last year was the Royals with their late run.
Nothing they have done for the last year has signaled that they think they have a one year window:
1. The got Iglesias in the first place. They could have gotten Drew for a lot lower costs. They were expecting Iglesias as a long term solution (4-5 years).
2. The got a young, inexperienced manager.
3. They traded Fielder to free up major cash now, not in a year (after their “last run”).
4. They traded Fister, for three players who will benefit the team for the next 5 years, not just the next 2.
Fact is DD thinks their window is 4-5 years, not one year.
1) Iggy was acquired to fill a need last year (Peralta’s suspension), its nice that he was cost controlled but that was a win now move
2) Not sure what a manager has to do with win-now vs win later.
3) They traded fielder because his contract was awful and they needed a 2B NOW and wanted a better defense NOW
4) The Fister trade was a horrible mistake, not sure why they did that.
The prospects they acquired will likely never have a major impact.
In 4-5 years Miggy, Velander, Scherzer (if extended), V-Mart (if extended) will all be well past their primes. The Kinsler and Nathan additions were win now moves.
1. Why did they not trade for Drew then, who would have been lower cost in a trade?
2. He has never managed at any level before. Does that look like a move for a “2014 ONLY” strategy?
3. They already had a very good 2nd baseman (Infante), who would have fit the “win now” mentality perfectly. They could have just given him the QO and overpaid him for a “win now” 2014 campaign.
4. No, the Fister deal was a sound one… for a team that wanted to wanted to extend their window from 1-2 years, to 4-5 years. They traded 2 years of Fister for 15 years (many at the league minimum) of three players. They also spread their risk across three players v. just one. Savings likely to be well over $50MM over the next 5+ years.
The Red Sox valued Drew more than Iggy. They wanted to win, and they did. The team took off once Iggy was traded and Drew took over at SS after a short DL stint.
On the other hand, the Tigers valued Iglesias more than Drew. They saw their SS for the next 5 years at a very reasonable salary. They did not have interest in Drew then… and they do not have interest in him now.
If not Drew, The Tigers could have gotten very similar older SS instead of Iglesias for Garcia.
Of course, the players they traded for need to actually amount to something for the deal to have been worth it.
They have 4-5 now and are working on extending the window to 8-10 years. Thus the acquisitions of Ray, Krol, Lombardozzi and Iggy to complement Porcello, Smiley, Avila, Rondon and Castellanos.
This is not a desperate win now team.
I developed a shin stress fracture while road marching in the Army Infantry. It’s been 8 years and it still hurts me to even walk some times for too long. He’s done for.
Except he will have top of the line doctors at his disposal. If they can rebuild a shoulder, I’m sure they can take care of a shin injury.
And you’re saying military surgeons who have the same college education and even more military medical training aren’t “top of the line”?
What about Bonifacio out of Chicago NL? He has had a rough go with the bat the past couple years, but is looking good this spring. Always been a speedster, and decent with the glove, and sure seems like he could be had for a song considering he’s been let go of by the Jays and Royals recently.
The Tigers infield will be good, defensively. But the offense will take a big blow with Danny Worth taking over SS for the foreseeable future. Lombardozzi may be in the mix as well, but neither has a significant pop to their bat.
Of course this is made better by the loss of Lloyd McClendon, so I can’t complain too much. Just glad he’s gone and SOMEONE is back there helping players.
Stress fractures in BOTH shins???? Anyone EVER hear of Sam Bowie???? Holy cr#p, Tigers got waxed on this by the White Sox and Red Sox. White Sox get a cornerstone in Avisail Garcia, the Red Sox get pitching depth down the stretch of a championship run, and the Tigers get Sam Bowie.