6:26pm: Santana continues to consider offers from the Orioles and the Jays, ESPN's Enrique Rojas tweets, noting that two other clubs had expressed interest this afternoon (Spanish link).
4:08pm: FOX Sports' Jon Morosi tweets that a source tells him that Santana could wait "days" before signing. 4:00 has come and gone, and there's no news about his decision.
12:08pm: Rojas writes (Spanish-language) that Santana is deciding between the Jays, who have offered $14MM, and the Orioles, who have offered $13MM plus incentives.
11:43am: Enrique Rojas of ESPN Deportes tweets that Santana will sign with the Jays for $14MM by 4:00pm if he does not receive a better offer by then.
11:40am: The deal is not yet done, but Santana and the Jays are discussing one, the New York Post's Joel Sherman tweets.
11:18am: The Blue Jays have agreed to terms with Ervin Santana on a one-year, $14MM deal, Dionisio Soldevila of ESPN Deportes tweets. Earlier in the day, Soldevila had reported that Santana would sign with an AL club for $14MM. Santana has until recently been represented by Proformance, although there have been recent reports about the possibility of Santana ending his relationship with that agency.
Santana pitched 211 innings with the Royals in 2013, posting a 3.24 ERA with 6.9 K/9 and 2.2 BB/9. After the season, he rejected a $14.1MM qualifying offer, hoping to strike it big on the free agent market. Obviously, that didn't happen, as the issue of draft pick forfeiture supressed the market for Santana and several other players. The Blue Jays have two first-round picks, at No. 9 and No. 11, and both are protected. So they'll have to give up the No. 50 overall pick for signing Santana.
Santana's one-year deal gives him the opportunity to hit the free agent market again next offseason, when he will turn 32. If he performs well, however, he may still have to deal with the qualifying offer issue. Santana ranked sixth on MLBTR's list of the top 2013-14 free agents. Ubaldo Jimenez, who ranked 11th and also rejected a qualifying offer, received four years and $50MM from the Orioles, and Santana reportedly sought a similar contract. ESPN's Buster Olney recently tweeted that teams were concerned about the health of Santana's elbow.
Assuming Santana remains healthy, however, $14MM plus the No. 50 overall draft pick seems like a very reasonable price for the Blue Jays to pay a young-ish, solidly-above-average starting pitcher who topped 200 innings last year. Santana will provide a significant boost to a Jays rotation that was unsettled after R.A. Dickey, Brandon Morrow and Mark Buehrle.
ok AA, now sign Stephen Drew and let’s get this thing going.
I’m hoping he signs with the Twins.
I don’t see that happening after the Scott Boras/Rogers Communications fiasco.
Only way it happens is if Drew is willing to accept a 1 year contract and is willing to play second base.
However, Scott Boras was backtracking many of his comments to the Toronto media a couple weeks ago and stated repeatedly that Drew would sign with Toronto (to play 2b) if they offered a multi year contract.
So yeah, not happening until Drew/Boras drop price/pants.
I don’t see that happening after the Scott Boras/Rogers Communications fiasco.
So with the different tax rates, this is actually much worse than the QO, right?
I was wondering the same thing. Isn’t the Canadian dollar higher than the US dollar though? Once taxes are figured though I’m not sure if he is making as much as he could.
Nah. CAD has plummeted in the past few weeks.
His salary is for $14MM US. So the exchange rate isn’t a factor.
yep… and i believe the Jays lock in there US cash reserves at least a year in advance so the 2014 dip in the Loonie probably won’t affect them… 2015 and beyond is another story.
I think people are accounting for tax of living there too maybe
what is the tax rate in KC?
I’m not sure, but my (extremely) rough estimate is that he stands to lose about $1-1.5MM by signing with the Jays than if he’d signed with an American team or taken the QO.
Max income tax rate in Ontario is 29% (federal) + 13.1% (provincial) = 42.1%. FYI. Apparently very much in-line with a lot of other big market state income taxes, all factors considered.
From what I understand, Canada doesn’t have the obnoxious tax loopholes that you can get in the US.
This is pretty sharp. All it costs them is a single year and a second round draft pick. They get a solid rotation piece on favorable terms and can give him a QO and get a first round pick next year.
the only question is who is the better bet: Santana or Josh Johnson, who probably would’ve been cheaper and wouldn’t have cost a pick.
That’s the thing though: this may not exactly cost them a pick either. They’ll lose a 2nd round this year, but will likely net a 1st round next year. So this may actually upgrade their pick situation rather than hurt it.
good point. AA has been so good in the past with his draft pick accumulation with FA compensation that I would buy them employing that strategy with respect to JJ and signing a FA pitcher.
I don’t know if it’s likely, considering what happened this off season, unless he pitches extremely well he would likely accept the QO.
Agree, and if he has a mediocre to bad season he won’t get offered the QO anyway. I think it’s pretty unlikely that the Jays end up gaining a draft pick from this.
To answer the question, I think that Santana is the safer bet.
That’s not even a question. Santana averages 215 inning/162 games. Johnson will give you 150 at best. Dude’s made of glass.
This is a moot point as Johnson was not resigning with the Jays without the QO, despite his lackluster performance.
This is a moot point as Johnson was not resigning with the Jays without the QO, despite his lackluster performance.
Johnson said he wanted to play on the west coast, though.
Wow. Could have made $14.1 by just saying yes to the Royals and stayed in a spacious outfield with a great defense. I’m betting this season won’t be as kind to his value as last year was.
On a one year deal there’s no way it could go wrong, either he’s doesn’t pitch good and that’s it or he pitches good and we get either one more year from him on a QO or he declines it and we get a pick.
I would assume that there will be language in the deal that will prevent the Jays from giving him a QO.
isn’t that against the CBA?
yes it is
the new CBA prevents teams and players making agreements to no offer QO
I wonder why the MLBPA agreed to that? Oh well, definitely a good move for the Jays then.
Because it replaced the former compensation system, and the current compensation system is unquestionably better for more players.
and then there were two…..
As a Red Sox fan, I’m pretty happy with the remaining 2. I wish he could somehow go to both teams….maybe a mid-season trade to the team that doesn’t start with him?
I am unsurprised he did not come to Baltimore. Toronto needs him more.
Santana in the AL East facing above average offenses in hitters parks could get very ugly.
They were going to send out JA Happ as their #4. I personally would rather see Santana. Wouldn’t you?
At $14 mil and the cost of a draft pick no, but then again that’s just me. There’s a reason why it took him all this time to sign.
I completely agree
You can offer a QO and get that pick exchanged for a 1st round pick or you got him controlled again for just a 1 year contract.
It took all this time to sign him because originally he wanted 50M and no team was willing to give him that a this point in the offseason.
It’s mind boggling that people wouldn’t want to give up a second round pick for Santana. Here’s a list of every second rounder drafted by the Jays baseball-reference.com/draft/?query_type=franch_ro…;.
Now that the Jays have signed Santana they need to sign Stephen Drew so that Ryan Goins doesn’t post a -WAR has the starting 2B.
I think Goins dWAR will be high enough to put him above replacement level overall. And the Jays offense would be good enough to make up for what Goins lacks. I don’t see Drew as a necessity at all.
The Jays offence is most definitely not good enough to make up for Goins lack of offence. The Jays ranked 8/15 in wRC+ and are much closer to the 7/8/9 group (Orioles 100, Toronto 99, Texas 97) than they are to the 6th placed Indians (107 wRC+).
If you want to argue that the Jays were injured, we can look at the first half of the year, where the Jays were once again a 99 wRC+ team.
Maybe Goins defence is good enough to offset his bat and make him a 0.3 or 0.4 WAR player. He’s certainly not a good player, and the Jays could and should upgrade over him.
According to the 2014 Fangraphs projections, the Jays are projected to score the second most runs in the MLB. Tied with the Red Sox. Rangers lead the RS/G category.
Pretty sure the Jays offense is better than you think it is.
I think Goins dWAR will be high enough to put him above replacement level overall. And the Jays offense would be good enough to make up for what Goins lacks. I don’t see Drew as a necessity at all.
Actually, he originally wanted 6/112 then when all of his fellow pitchers signed for 4/50 he changed his demands but it was too late.
People say the same thing with Ubaldo. With his high walk rates, it can be devastating in the AL East with the patient approach NY, BOS and TB takes. Santana is way less risk compared to making a four year commitment.
Not shocking. Toronto needed him the most. Should be another exciting year in the AL (B)East, with all 5 teams theoretically in the hunt.
Ubaldo is laughing to the bank right now
Signed for 1 yr/$14M… called it!
On the plus side, this should seal the Yankees’ fate as a 5th place team.
Lol, the Jays sign a guy who arguably would be the 5th starter on the Yankees and you say they will be better. Please, how exactly are the Jays and O’s better than the Yankees?
Well, the Orioles have a better offense, defense, and rotation, while the Jays have the best offense in the division and, now at least, a somewhat passable rotation.
The Yankees, OTOH, have a mediocre lineup, a mediocre rotation, and probably the worst infield defense in all of baseball.
I really dont get where TOR has a better offense when you go by the numbers, OR the eye test. Os beat the Jays by 33 runs last year and have vastly improved their holes at LF/DH
The numbers only tell part of the story- the Jays were ridiculously unlucky with injuries last year. If Reyes and Cabrera are healthy and productive in front of a healthy Bautista, Encarnacion, Rasmus, and Lind, they will dominate pretty much every offensive category. And if Lawrie takes a step forward(as should be expected)? Look out.
That’s a heck of a lot of optimism crammed into one comment.
That’s a heck of a lot of optimism crammed into one comment.
Lawrie seems like a bust to me. Reyes is always hurt and so is Bautista. Orioles offense is better considering how injury prone the Jays are.
Better rotation? Using stats please explain.
CC is going to be 34 this year. He lost velocity last year and dropped off sharply in pretty much every statistical category- ERA, WHIP, H/9, BB/9, SO/9, etc.- and is probably unlikely to bounce back too much(although I would expect slightly better results in 2014).
Kuroda is already 39 years old, and isn’t going to continue defying nature forever. I would expect some inevitable age-related drop off, though he’ll still probably be fairly solid.
Nova was very good last year, posting a 3.10 ERA and 1.29 WHIP in 139.1 IP, but he’s been inconsistent thus far in his career(solid in 2011, awful to the tune of a 5.02 ERA and 1.47 WHIP in 2012, good again last year). Maybe he’ll be solid, maybe he won’t.
And Pineda and Tanaka are complete question marks. Pineda hasn’t pitched at the MLB level since his rookie season in 2011, and Tanaka has never pitched at the MLB level. I would expect growing pains with both guys, and the next man up(I would think), David Phelps, wasn’t exactly great last year, posting a 4.98 ERA and 1.42 WHIP.
Additionally, I would expect some across-the-board negative gains thanks to their awful IF defense, which is much worse than what they ran out there last year.
The Orioles, OTOH, have one of the best IF defenses in all of baseball backing up 5 reliable starters in Jimenez(3.30 ERA in 2013, 3.92 career), Tillman(3.71 ERA in 2013, 4.28 career, 3.48 over the last 2 seasons), Chen(4.07 ERA in 2013, 4.04 career), Gonzalez(3.78 ERA in 2013, 3.58 career), and Norris(4.18 ERA in 2013, 4.36 career), with a top 10-15 prospect knocking at the door in Kevin Gausman. It’s also probably worth noting that, at 30 years old, Ubaldo is the oldest member of the rotation.
Have to disagree the Jays have the best offense when they scored 141 less runs then the Red Sox. I understand the injury side but Reyes, Bautista, Lawrie, and Rasmus have serious injury history and it is likely they will be hurt again.
Cabrera, Goins, and Navarro are 3 average to below average offensive players as well and the team doesn’t have much depth.
They were unusually unlucky with injuries last year; I would expect the pendulum to swing back in the other direction this year.
If Reyes is healthy in the leadoff, that lineup is an entirely different animal.
Sure, let’s look at the Yankees. Besides Roberts none of the other starting infielders were able to start at their positions for more than 20 games last season and they’re all on the wrong side of 30. McCann hasn’t started more than 130 games behind the plate since ’08. All three of the starting OF were unable to start more than 140 games each in ’13 and two of them (Gardner and Ellsbury) lost more than half of ’12 due to injuries. Rivera and Pettitte are gone and aren’t coming back. Sabathia is coming off his worst ever season as a starter. Tanaka looks good but is an MLB unknown. Pineda hasn’t started a regular season game since Obama was planning his re-election. Kuroda is very good but is starting the season as a 39-year old. And the team is coming off a season where they were last in the AL East in hitting, scoring, and HR. I think I feel comfortable in saying they’ll have problems compared to the Orioles.
Sure, let’s look at the Yankees. Besides Roberts none of the other starting infielders were able to start at their positions for more than 20 games last season and they’re all on the wrong side of 30. McCann hasn’t started more than 130 games behind the plate since ’08. All three of the starting OF were unable to start more than 140 games each in ’13 and two of them (Gardner and Ellsbury) lost more than half of ’12 due to injuries. Rivera and Pettitte are gone and aren’t coming back. Sabathia is coming off his worst ever season as a starter. Tanaka looks good but is an MLB unknown. Pineda hasn’t started a regular season game since Obama was planning his re-election. Kuroda is very good but is starting the season as a 39-year old. And the team is coming off a season where they were last in the AL East in hitting, scoring, and HR. I think I feel comfortable in saying they’ll have problems compared to the Orioles.
NYY had a mediocre lineup and rotation last season and they won 85 games. lol HATER!
Love it.
Red Sox Fan here and I don’t like the Yankees at all. But signing Ervin Santana and counting on injury prone guys to be completely healthy does not make the Jays make up the 11 game gap between them and the Yanks especially when the Yanks made massive offensive improvements at several positions and signed Tanaka to solidify a rotation that is much better than the Jays.
I just don’t see it- yes, they added guys but they also lost the greatest closer of all-time and an offensive juggernaut in Cano. Their rotation is a bunch of question marks(Will CC bounce back? Will the 39 year old Kuroda continue to defy nature? Will Nova pick up where he left off or revert to his 2012 form? How smoothly will Tanaka’s transition be, and can he exceed the #3ish starter expectations that most scouts have placed on him? And what, if anything, will they get from Pineda, a guy who hasn’t pitched at the big league level since his rookie year in 2011?) and, to make matters worse, their IF defense is probably the worst in baseball. They’re old, they’re injury prone, and their bullpen is awful. They probably have the slimmest margin of error of any team in the division.
Ervin still has question marks facing him, but on a one year deal I can’t complain. It’s less of a risk than JJ and an upgrade over JA Happ. A necessary move at this point. With the way Spring Training has been brewing, Drew Hutchison will most likely be the 5th starter, which makes this Jays rotation not too bad after this move now.
Such drama! Lebron, eat your heart out!
The Yankees have a rapidly declining Sabathia, completely unproven pitcher with most scouts agreeing that he’s a number 2 at best (Tanaka), Nova who’s been inconsistent, Pineda who hasn’t even pitched in the majors since they acquired him and ??? Tell me again how Santana would be questionable as your 5th starter?
CC has one bad year and he’s rapidly declined? The only thing that rapidly declined was his weight. Which in the long run may help him become better.
I agree with what others have been saying in that he’s a risk in Rogers and the AL East in general but on a 1 year deal I’ll take him, especially with how Happ and Morrow have been pitching this spring. (Although I don’t think odds are good that he’ll earn us a draft pick. Combo of being in tougher conditions along with not getting a deal after a stellar 2013 makes me a bit pessimistic on that front)
Or he can pitch badly in the toughest division in baseball and you will waste 14 mil and a draft pick.
Yes, but only a second round draft pick. The first round is protected.
I know that
If the Jays are healthy, their offence is superior to that of the Orioles.
Considering the Os scored 33 more runs than the Jays in 2013, and upgraded from Valencia/McClouth/Pierce to Cruz/Lough/Young…im just not seeing what you are apparently.
Though if kawasaki is in the MLB for any games against the Os again, were in trouble.
When the Jays had only had 3 guys play more than 118 games (Lind, Encarnacion, Arencibia)…I would say only being 33 runs below the O’s is impressive and shows they are better when healthy
Bautista was hurt for 44 games, Reyes 69, Rasmus 44, Cabrera 74, Lawrie 45 and Encarnacion 20. If the Jays were healthy, their offence would have been far superior to that of the Orioles.
Bautista hasn’t played more than 150 games since 2010. Rasmus has played more than 150 once in his career. Lawrie hasn’t played more than 125 games ever in his career. Encarnacion has surpassed 150 games once in 9 years. The last time Cabrera played 150+ he was juicing in KC three seasons ago. Reyes suited up for more than 135 games once in the last 5 seasons.
That’s way too many ifs to proclaim what they could do if healthy. All of these players are in and out of the lineup too often to make any proclamations about what they could do if healthy because they’ve never been together for any stretch of time. When they’re in the lineup together for 140-150 games, then we can make sensible comparisons. Until then, you’re hoping and dreaming.
Take a look at the fangraphs projections for 2014. You will notice the Jays are projected to score the second most runs in the MLB, tied with the Red Sox, one behind the Rangers. They are better at hitting the ball than you think they are, and almost assuredly better than the Orioles, on paper.
The Jays have to stay healthy to do well — something none of them have shown a propensity for.
The projections take past playing time in to account.
Take a look at the fangraphs projections for 2014. You will notice the Jays are projected to score the second most runs in the MLB, tied with the Red Sox, one behind the Rangers. They are better at hitting the ball than you think they are, and almost assuredly better than the Orioles, on paper.
And If my name was Justin Verlander I would be dating Kate Upton.
5th starter? Yea okay…
This is an emotional roller coaster
I’m a die-hard O’s fan and even I’m willing to admit that Toronto has the best offense in the division*
*If healthy
Enrique Rojas of ESPN Deportes tweets that Santana will sign with the Jays for $14MM by 4:00pm if he does not receive a better offer by then.
Who is going to offer more at this point? Or quite frankly at any point?
Come on sign on the dotted line and lets go!
Besides, he is a few weeks behind.
Santana wouldn’t be the fifth starter on the Yankees. Aside from Kuroda, their rotation is mediocre. Sabathia is faltering and we’ll have to wait and see how Tanaka performs against MLB hitters.
I wouldn’t call Nova mediocre.
I wouldn’t call Nova mediocre.
It is? My error, then. I was going off of a Rosenthal article about the Reyes trade in 2012, where Reyes went from no income tax rate in Florida to Canada. The rate quoted in that article is 47.97%.
Must also consider that Missouri tax rate of 6%
Tax rates fluctuate. It may also be that there are additional taxes for foreign workers
There are often fewer taxes as one is typically taxed based on where one is working and most MLB games do not happen in toronto.
“Rojas writes (Spanish-language) that Santana is deciding betwee the Jays, who have offered $14MM, and the Orioles, who have offered $13MM.”
C’mon O’s, add an extra million and get this thing done.
C’mon O’s, add an extra million and get this thing done.
I am not so sure if I would.
I am content with Jimenez and Cruz signing
I am content with Tillman.
I would like to see the pitchers that we already have like Britton get themselves together and finally reach their potential.
I am kind of feeling that the Blue Jays should sign him.
C’mon O’s, add an extra million and get this thing done.
I am not so sure if I would.
I am content with Jimenez and Cruz signing
I am content with Tillman.
I would like to see the pitchers that we already have like Britton get themselves together and finally reach their potential.
I am kind of feeling that the Blue Jays should sign him.
What time zone at 4PM?
Central
The elbow problems must be something serious then. This is a bit surprising to me, I thought he would at the very least be able to get Lohse money. He has proved at least that good over his career.
It may be Santana that is pushing for a 1 year deal so he can get a bigger paycheck next year. Not necessarily the teams.
Don’t think so. He will be another year older, he can only really get worse from this year, especially being in the AL East.
The latest topic seems to suggest I am right.
I think he is letting his ego get in the way again. It’s not like he can do the same thing again next year and expect the results to be any different.
I think he is letting his ego get in the way again. It’s not like he can do the same thing again next year and expect the results to be any different.
It may be Santana that is pushing for a 1 year deal so he can get a bigger paycheck next year. Not necessarily the teams.
Income tax differences between Baltimore and Toronto may turn out to be the deciding factor here.
As well as the incentives Baltimore is offering.
Exactly. When you factor in the income taxes to discover what Santana’s “take home” pay would be. Baltimore already has an advantage by offerring 13 million. Add to that the “incentives” and the Baltimore offer is by far superiour to the Toronto offer.
As a Jays fan, I think AA needs to up the offer slightly or throw in some incentives, although I know AA is against the concept of incentives as he believes it leads to conflict and second-guessing of the manager during the season.
I have no respect for Santana now esp when the Royals would have worked out a decent deal for him (besides the QO) and then had to settle for Vargas. His greed along with the agents greed backfired and now he can play in Toronto and miss the playoffs. Enjoy Ervin!!!
Well the Royals have the longest playoff drought and the Jays the 2nd longest…I guess he saw it as an upgrade.
So because he wanted job security and now that it didn’t work out and the Royals have no room for him, that causes you to lose respect for him? Oh , ok.
Royals gave up on signing him too quickly. That is their fault.
Or perhaps the Royals know something. After all, they had him all last year.
Or perhaps the Royals know something. After all, they had him all last year.
And he was going to make the playoffs in KC?
Yes and they still will. This Royals nucleus is solid on offense now and the starting rotation was ranked first in era last year. Not to mention the lights out bullpen. Not trying to knock the Jays because I hate the Yankees and Red Sox, just being honest. Wish the Jays the best though this year.
Well, I think you’re being overly optimistic, but OK man, we’ll see! (I’m going to remember your name at the end of the season).
Yes and they still will. This Royals nucleus is solid on offense now and the starting rotation was ranked first in era last year. Not to mention the lights out bullpen. Not trying to knock the Jays because I hate the Yankees and Red Sox, just being honest. Wish the Jays the best though this year.
He could of said yes to the QO and guaranteed that amount, but he took a chance on himself to earn a payday 3-5x that and set him and his family up for
life (and many more lives to come). Ultimately he’ll earn maybe at most
1-2 mil less than he would of by not taking that chance.
What would you have done?
The Royals foolishness in signing Vargas so quickly doesn’t factor into it, just shows how poorly the Royals are run. The chances of them making the playoffs are as low as the Jays.
Greed in baseball? You don’t say!
Greed in baseball? You don’t say!
Santana signs with Baltimore, and that’s a loss for KC. That adds depth to another mid-tier team that will likely be hunting a wild card
Santana signs with Baltimore, and that’s a loss for KC. That adds depth to another mid-tier team that will likely be hunting a wild card
Awful lot of leakage going on in this “negotiation.” Something smells rotten here, like the leaks are all coming from the Santana camp and there’s really only one team bidding.
Good call.
Twitter is blowing up, Santana is apparently starting to follow a bunch of Os and Jays fans.
Im a Jays fan, and I hope and pray he goes to orioles, @ rogers centre santana’s given up 27 hrs and hasn’t even played in the al east. Santana could turn into a disaster who is known as a flyball pitcher, not a strikeoiut pitcher, nor ground ball. Considering he has years where he struggled in angles stadium, thats scary considering its one of the largest parks in bigs. Let baltimore waste their money, please. BTW drew hutchinson looks great out their, let happ, drabek, redmond, stroman, rogers fight for that last spot.
His ground ball rates have risen the last couple of years.
IN the central and west, boys can hit here in the east
LOL…if you think Santana would be the only starter on the Jays who’s home run-vulnerable at Rogers Centre, then you obviously haven’t checked the stats and track record of Happ, Rogers, or Drabek. Santana is an innings eater, and at his best, he’s as good (if not, better) than the two innings eaters currently on the Jays staff. Not to mention, his groundball rate went up last year after he started throwing the sinker more often
If were getting the same results i rather happ, or stroman because there gonna cost us 14 mill less.
The Jays whole rotation consists of flyball pitchers…
Ya and thATS WHY ITS ONE OF the worst in the league. When something isn’t working you dont continue to buy into whats not working, you reverse the trend and find the opposite. In this case, home run pitchers for jays are everywhere, so we should look for some strikeout, ground ball pitchers, someone like a ubaldo jimenez, though AA was in his rock when he signed a nice deal with the O’s
Do they Jays need Bautista, Reyes, Rogers, and Encarnacion to preach good things about Toronto to Santana?
Anyone have any idea on how a $14 MIL contract for a Canadian team compares to a $13 MIL deal in the states? If it’s close it likely comes down to where he feels he’d be more comfortable.
Both deals would in in USD.
Santana would lose about $2.5 – $3m in Income Tax in Ontario though… Would probably get it back somehow though. Income tax on foreign nationals is weird.
He is only taxed on about 1/2 his salary (games played in Toronto). The Ontario/Canada income tax would be no more than Fed/NY/NY municipal tax, or Fed/CA tax.
If he goes to Jays why not just sign Drew to a 1 year $12 million dollar contract to play second base. The two signings should put Jays into play-off contention.
If he goes to Jays why not just sign Drew to a 1 year $12 million dollar contract to play second base. The two signings should put Jays into play-off contention.
i wouldnt mind him going to the orioles. he gives up some HRs, but he’s better than gonzalez, chen, and norris.
but im still ok with what they have if he doesnt
I hope he goes to jays because o’s already signed Cruz and Jiminez.
Expect his homeruns to go back up…. not playing in Kansas City.
Baltimore has one of the league’s top defenses, is in position to be the more competitive team, and doesn’t use fake Canadian grass that turns groundball outs into singles and singles in the gap into doubles.
If the difference really is only 1$M this should be a no-brainer.
Why are you calling AstroTurf “fake Canadian grass”?
AstroTurf is made by a company in Georgia…
Why not educate yourself before making snide, gratuitous references to Canada? It’s attitudes like yours that feed right into the “arrogant American” stereotype.
1) AstroTurf is an American company (based in Georgia)
2) The Tampa Bay Rays also use it.
Anyone really think Santana goes to play for a team with Gibbons as manager if he has another choice?. You know, the guy who got into a fight with one of his own pitchers and had several other run ins with players. Bobby V Lite.
Surprised more teams are not in on Santana on a 1 yr deal, at least those who stand only to lose a 2nd round or later pick, or a very late 1st rounder. Santana has not had an issue with his elbow since 2009 I don’t think. He has averaged 210 IP a year in the 4 years since then and coming off his best year. His FB velocity in 2013 is the same as it was in 2010. Every pitcher has some wear and tear on the their arm so I doubt Santana is anymore of an injury risk of any other pitcher.
Why wouldn’t he? When a manager asks for the ball, you don’t question him, you simply fork it over and move on. Ted Lilly did not and Gibbons doesn’t take trash from anyone, whether you’re a superstar or some fringe player. The only other run in was with Hillenbrand after he wrote a message saying something like “the ship is sinking” in the locker room. Again, Gibby didn’t take any trash and Hillenbrand ended up getting traded after their run in.
There are likely other dynamics going on behind the scenes leading to the visible altercations. The players know and talk. It would be one thing if Gibby had a track record for success, but he never gets much out of his teams. Gibby can look like a “man” by not taking trash, but his teams under-perform.
Players will always choose a team with a player friendly manager when all else is equal. The days are over when the Bobby Valentines, Lou Pinellas, Billy Martins and Dick Williams can succeed. Players are multi-millionaires and expect to be treated with respect, not as HS kids
.
It doesn’t matter if you are a player friendly manager or not, my point is that if you don’t show respect to the manager, then there will be consequences. Gibby is as loose compared to any manager in baseball today, but if you don’t show respect, then altercations like the Lilly and Hillenbrand ones occur.
About your comment about them under-performing, the Jays were destroyed by injuries in 2013. You could have LaRussa, Torre, Francona or any other manager you want, and the Jays would have still finished last. He was also never given a strong team under former GM Ricciardi to contend with the Yankees and Red Sox back then. You can’t win if you don’t have the talent.
Anyone really think Santana goes to play for a team with Gibbons as manager if he has another choice?. You know, the guy who got into a fight with one of his own pitchers and had several other run ins with players. Bobby V Lite.
Surprised more teams are not in on Santana on a 1 yr deal, at least those who stand only to lose a 2nd round or later pick, or a very late 1st rounder. Santana has not had an issue with his elbow since 2009 I don’t think. He has averaged 210 IP a year in the 4 years since then and coming off his best year. His FB velocity in 2013 is the same as it was in 2010. Every pitcher has some wear and tear on the their arm so I doubt Santana is anymore of an injury risk of any other pitcher.
He’s going to wait days? Perhaps he’s hoping for more, but he should take care he doesn’t end up with less.
ok at this point Santana needs to jump and not try to milk it for more. Finding someone to pony up that salary this late is a gift.
Kind of like selling a house . You are sometimes better off with a lower asking price and getting multiple offers in which to create a bidding war than a higher asking price and scaring off buyers. The former strategy can land you a higher selling price. Of course, if you don’t handle it right you can end up with less since if the other buyers drop out the remaining buyer can squeeze you.
Indecision 2014.
Ha! There goes the 4pm deadline … I stand by my earlier statement. This “frenzy” is entirely manufactured by the Santana camp and in fact there is only one team that has one offer on the table and that’s it.
At this point, I’d like to see the O’s squeeze Santana. Tell him that he has 24 hours and if he can’t make a decision the offer drops by half a mil. Every day beyond that the offer continues to drop. We’d like to have another quality starter but we’re not as desperate as Toronto.
Whats your hurry? Forcing a player to make a quick decision by giving him an ultimatum when you have the lowest bid on the table is rather a unique strategy. Might work if they were offering 15 million vs Toronto’s 14 million, but not at 13 million.
We don’t need him like we did before Jimenez signed. It would be nice to add him, but he’s almost a luxury at this point. Also, signing him would probably predicate multiple moves with Norris, Gausman, Britton, and Stinson sooner rather than later. If the O’s sign Santana, the entire league knows we have no space for Britton, Matusz, and Stinson and we’re forced to sell low or lose them outright.
signing santana doesnt take up room for 3 players, and none of them would be the ones to go. matusz is safe in the pen, and only britton is out of options. he’s probably safe in the bullpen this year too. i dont think the orioles are anxious to get rid of a LHP unless they got a good offer. signing santana would just knock chen or norris to the bullpen and then there would only be 1 open spot in the pen instead of 2 (assuming hunter, o’day, matusz, webb, britton). if you add chen in there that only leaves 1 for yoon/de la cruz/johnson/stinson/aceves/patton (when hes done his suspension)
No, he doesn’t take up three spots but there is a heavy trickle-down effect. Santana bumps either Gonzo, Chen, or Norris to the pen. With Hunter, O’Day, Webb, and Matusz locks for the 25-man and Buck loving Meek, Aceves, and Huntziger that would make a full roster. We would absolutely be forced to move Stinson and Britton when the league knows we have to do something or lose them on waivers.
The rumors were that Santana wants to sign with an AL team with a strong offense. If these rumors are true, I wonder why he would want that? IMO it would make sense for him to go to an NL team with a pitchers park in order to lower his era for when he reaches FA again next season…
Teams are sophisticated enough to adjust stats for being in a weaker league and pitchers park. By pitching in a tough division with hitters parks and doing well he would do more to increase his value. The media exposure in the AL East will not hurt either. Of course, a pitcher has to be very confident of his abilities to choose the AL East.
If its a choice between Baltimore and Toronto I choose Baltimore since I think they have a better shot at the post season if they sign Santana than Toronto does with Bobby V Lite as manager.
“Teams are sophisticated enough to adjust stats for being in a weaker league and pitchers park.” The Orioles weren’t when they signed Jimenez.
if he truly does want to go to a team with a strong offense, baltimore was at the top last year and should be again this year at least as far as HRs, RBIs, and runs scored,
NL West is the second strongest division in baseball by WAR and last year’s interleague series ended virtually tied. Just sayin’ maybe you shouldn’t throw around “weaker league” so much anymore. AL has better hitting, but I would argue NL has better pitching, and three of the four best teams in baseball (Nats, Dodgers and Cards).
This guy can increase some ticket demand, and put a bit more hope, please sign him AA, ive been a season seat holder for years, and im tired of boring baseball in august.
Hes gonna go to texas, no way texas wants to get off bad start especially with their new lineup and harrison and holland out till midseason
Blue Jays should have pulled the offer the moment the clock hit 4PM and with Santana still not signing the contract. Funny how players can play these tricks to get more money but god forbid a team does the same to sign a player.
Blue Jays have no worries. Santana cannot pass a physical from Baltimore.
That’s not the point though. Pulling the offer would set a precedent/example to all future players in Santana’s position. When you are given the opportunity to correct your mistake (of rejecting the QO and pricing yourself out) from a team that is basically willing to pay you the same as a QO on a 1 year deal you should accept it, not try to use the team’s offer to milk some other team for a better offer and outright lie in the process. I would have pulled the $14mil offer at 4PM and make a new offer for $5mil and see how he likes it. Beggars cant be choosers.
I agree. Upon receiving the offer from Toronto, Santana should have been on the next flight to their Spring Training facility.
Here’s the deal on Santana, from somebody who saw every one of his starts last year. He’s a 2 pitch pitcher (3 if you count his “get-me-over” slider). He’s lost 1-2mph off the fastball. The fastball is just a show pitch – so he’s throwing a higher percentage of sliders which means it’s just a matter of time before the elbow pops.