The Mariners have placed outfielder Franklin Gutierrez on the restricted list after he advised the team that he will not play in 2014, reports Bob Dutton of the Tacoma News Tribune (Twitter links). The move clears a 40-man roster spot for Fernando Rodney.
Gutierrez has had a relapse of the gastrointestinal issues that plagued him last year, and says he intends to focus on regaining his health. Soon to turn 31, Gutierrez managed only 141 plate appearances last year, over which he posted a .248/.273/.503 line with ten home runs. He had inked a one-year, $1MM deal with Seattle that included an additional $2MM in incentives.
With an outfield featuring several left-handed bats, Gutierrez had figured to provide an important platoon option from the right side of the plate. His loss could add even greater impetus to Seattle's rumored interest in Nelson Cruz. Of course, the greater issue might be the loss of Gutierrez as an option to share time in center alongside Dustin Ackley or Michael Saunders. While switch-hitter Abraham Almonte had a solid all-around season last year in the upper minors, he is unproven and has generally put up better numbers when hitting from the left side in his recent minor league campaigns. That being said, the list of remaining free agents does not appear to house any obvious solutions.
I feel bad for the guy, and mariners fans.
Thanks again for this quality move, Jack Z. None of us could have seen this coming!
we aren’t paying him anything
so i don’t really see how this can be viewed as bad
I see it as bad because Z was putting too much faith in him. Look at the outfield depth on this team, its terrible. And that’s just from a defensive standpoint, it’s even worse on offense…
I don’t think so
the Ms view Micheal Saunders highly and viewed him as there starting center fielder
then we have ackley, almonte, avery, chavez and romero
plus whatever hart or morrison can do in the outfield
its not great ill give you that
but its definitely not as bad as your trying to make it out to be
I do like Ackley in the outfield (I know a lot of people don’t but whatever). But after that? I’d love for Almonte to be good, but who knows. Avery, Chavez, and Romero who knows what you’re going to get. Well with Chavez we know, and it’s nothing to write home about. At least not for a team I’d like to see compete. I love Saunders, I think he’s one of the most well rounded players on this team, even if he only manages to hit .240 over the course of the season. I’d just rather have him in one of the corners because his center field defense is about average.
people overvalue defense too much
I think you’re just undervaluing it. After having watched the difference Juan Lagares made in center last season for the Mets after the debacle that was Lucas Duda in left, I can’t undervalue it. It’s important. It’s hard to measure, for sure, but still extremely important.
its important yes, but there are others things that factor in. your not always gonna find a perfect player with (power, defense, hitting and speed) rarely will you find it. There is always flaws. you have to make a choice of what is important to you.
I think for the Mariner’s outfield in particular, it’s about shoring up the areas that they can. Ideally, they need an outfielder with power and defense to make it look solid, but as you said that is extremely rare. So the way I look at it is this: the defense is pretty bad right now. The offense is pretty bad right now. If defense is undervalued, it should be easier of a hole to fill, in which case I think that’s the avenue we need to pursue. We should be getting decent power and average from 2nd, 3rd, and DH, so I think we can take more of a hit on offense in our outfield. And with how bad the pitching staff could be (emphasis on could), better outfield defense would go a long way to helping out that area of the team as well.
I agree with that. Either way your going to be weaker on some front you can’t have everything your way.
You’re right, and I think Seattle should be prioritizing outfield defense. You’ll notice out of their main starters last year, the ones that did well (Felix, Iwakuma) had way lower FB% than the ones that did poorer (Beavan, Maurer, Harang). The outlier there is Saunders, who legitimately was horrible. They need to focus on what their rotation is likely to look like. I’ll admit I don’t know much about their pitching situation for 2014 outside Felix and Iwakuma, but if they’re going to fill the rest of the rotation with flyballers again, they might want to prioritize a better defensive outfield, at least on those days. They’ve already got part-time outfield bats in Morrison and Hart, so no need for others. The again, you prolly know more about their needs, so maybe you’re right. I just can’t justify big money for Cruz. If the price falls far, I guess it’d be ok.
If the price falls then yes. By the way Mets made some good additions during the offseason Granderson will work out great for you.
I’m more of a fan of Chris Young and Colon since they’re shorter terms, but hopefully Granderson’s power will play at least decently well. If he gets 25-28 HR and a .250/.350/.460 type line I’d be very happy. I just want 3-3.5 WAR outta the Grandy man each of the next two years, then about 2 in ’16 and ’17. 10 WAR would make me a happy camper over the life of the deal.
Personally, i think we need at least two people out there who can play ++ defense. Its a pitchers park so when someone may not crank one out of here, they may end up in scoring position with a double or triple easily. The Ichiro-Healthy-Guti years were great and it reflected on the pitcher’s numbers. Good pitching goes down the tubes when you have a bunch of broken outfielders.
When an M’s fan sees that opening day alignment of Corey Hart, LoMo, and Ackley, you’re going to change your tune. The Mets were a completely different team once they replaced Duda with EYJ in left and Cowgill/Ankiel with Lagares in CF.
as long as he can catch and throw a ball then there shouldnt be an issue
You don’t know that. They may have intended to platoon center with Saunders and Guti. I’ve never felt they viewed Saunders highly, whether it was justified or not. Could have just been Wedge, but every outfielder they have/had on the roster came/comes with question marks.
So the M’s have what? 5 guys considered bench players on other teams, Ackley, Corey Hart (who didn’t play at all in 2013 and still wasn’t recovered from his surgeries two weeks ago), and LoMo.
That’s actually much, much worse than Jacob’s making it out to be.
Wow, I am disappointed to read of this!
When healthy he was one of the most gifted Outfielders that I have had the pleasure of watching.
As a side note, I know he is mentioned in the previous Rodney article, but I didn’t know Bob Dutton left the KC Star(and Royals) to cover the Mariners. That stunned me a bit.
There was nothing wrong with signing Guti to an incentive-laden deal, as long as he was viewed as a potential bonus piece, rather than a center piece.
This is exactly why they needed to find a durable center fielder this offseason. It was their most glaring hole, yet through today, they’ve danced around it. Signing Cruz STILL dances around it!
This doesn’t do the M’s much good in the way of leverage, either, whether it be trying to reach a deal for Cruz, or work a trade with another team.
“This doesn’t do the M’s much good in the way of leverage, either,
whether it be trying to reach a deal for Cruz, or work a trade with
another team.”
Yup, but it will still make things interesting to see how this all pans out the next couple months. A storm is coming and the ground is saturated with questionable moves already Jacky.
why would it change anything? we should ve been after a Cf and starting pitcher from the start. I knew this would happen with Franklin. We should sign Cruz still too but you and no one else will agree with me
im for cruz
hes not a perfect option but is definitely a improvement
i think this whole outfield defense thing is being WAY overblown
Agreed. he would bring offense to an outfield that barely has any. As much as people say he is overrated or has “terrible defense” his offensive marks is the reason to get him
An outfield consisting of Saunders in CF and the motley crew at the corners simply seems like a recipe for defensive disaster.
Saunders can be good. people tend to overvalue defense just a little bit as long as they can catch and throw a ball then that shouldn’t be a problem. As long as Ibanez and Morse isn’t in our outfield anymore then i am happy. Saunders is better then both
Watch a lumbering Nelson Cruz and his limited ability out there and that opinion may change. Cruz’ raw offense isn’t enough to outweigh his issues (his offense is all power-based, for example, and players with his offensive profile and age tend to age poorly, falling off a cliff) and justify a long-term commitment.
Put him in the right role and he will be useful. and i think if they get him for 2 years. it won’t be a long term commitment. Lets face it Untill the Dodgers make Matt Kemp or Marlins Make Stanton Avaible, we have to go with what is there.
I’m not saying he’s a bad investment, just that you need to accept his faults. If you’re okay with paying a 125 wRC+ish outfielder with limited defense and all of his offense derived from power now questioned due to a steroid suspension, then it’s okay. I’m just glad the Mets went after Granderson early, since I think he’s a better bet for what’ll probably amount to somewhat similar AAV (I still think Cruz gets something around the QO per year)
he has faults yes of course that comes with age, But use Cruz for DH and make a trade for a decent Cf and go with what you have for the rest. We still need a RH Power Bat and Cruz fits that option. You make it sound like Cruz is Morse and Ibanez which isn’t the case at all
I really don’t think he’s much better in the field. He could work out better, but he also costs significantly more than either of them, and for a longer term. At 2 years and less than 24~ MM I think it’s worth it, but anything more, including years, and it’s a no.
Then by your estimation we are doomed for failure???? Honestly WHAT OTHER OPTIONS ARE THERE???? No one wants to trade. No one wants to sign anyone. Its like people want us to stay in medocrity
I mean, I guess if you interpret it that way. The options are not so great and a bit worse. It’s late in the offseason. There’s a reason Nelson Cruz is still on the open market.
next year’s FA options aren’t looking good for hitters neither.
Are there really any decent centerfielders out there that the Ms could get via a trade realistically?
None of the M’s center field options were good last year, with exception to Guti in limited action. Look at everyone’s zone rating, DRS, etc. Not pretty.
But Saunders would be fine in a corner.
I agree but untill we acquire a Cf saunder is the best we have
No doubt. Saunders should be the center fielder until they do acquire a real center fielder.
You realize that was the thought process last year, right? And how did that turn out?
Take a peak at runs allowed by the M’s last season, then take a look at what the outfield defense did collectively. Outfield defense isn’t being overblown. It’s an absolute need.
Defense is the key word and Cruz certainly lacks in that area. His offensive numbers will most likely go down as well. I say we explore the market for an OF via trade. Only Cruz as a last resort and no more than 2/18
That’s exactly the point. Cruz doesn’t solve the defensive issue. In fact, there’s reason to believe the M’s interest in Cruz was as a part time DH, given the statement from McClendon.
If they wanted to sign Cruz to DH half of the time, why not just resign Morales? Unlike Cruz, he can actually hit a little at Safeco. And no giving up a draft pick, and he’s younger.
Morales does make more sense, in my opinion, if the bat was the only concern. But he doesn’t offer much defensively either.
Even in a platoon outfield/DH role, having defense is important. Pickin’s are slim, I get that, but that’s why I believe the trade route is the better option.
Morales is a bat-only type of player, I agree, but so is Cruz and he’d see plenty of time in the corners if he’s signed. That’s why they should go the trade route by giving up Franklin, their most attractive piece that’s expendable, for a glove-first CF. Then if Morales is signed in addition to that, pray that Smoak gains a little value this year and flip him at the deadline to a team like the Pirates or Yankees (who no doubt will have lost Teixeira for the year by that time).
Totally agree. I’ve speculated about a Franklin (center piece) for Jennings or Gardner swap.
the reason are pitching was so bad last year was not because of morse and rauuul
its because we gave 33 starts to saunders around 20 to harang and anyother 20 or so to maurer beaven and noise
Right, had nothing to do with two of the worst outfielders baseball’s seen in recent years.
Facts and stats don’t support your opinion.
It does change things because the M’s were clearly going to depend on Guti against left handed pitching, if nothing else. They did and do need a solid center fielder and a couple of starters, but this doesn’t necessarily make Cruz more important because they need defense as well as a RHB.
They should be exploring trades–and I’m sure they are.
You and I always have great talks. I agree with you on your points. I am just looking at Cruz for the offense he can bring for the outfield. The problem is this should have been done way earlier in the offseason
Yeah, they absolutely should have addressed center sooner.
i thought Tabata, Span, or Revere.
Phillies wouldn’t deal Revere without getting good young pitching back. They gave up a top prospect and a ROY candidate for Revere. Tabata doesn’t have game-changer skills. Span is interesting, but would likely cost good prospects too.
sometimes you have to make sacirfices to make your Major league club good. besides Jack knows how to draft well. We don’t know how those “good prospects” are gonna pan out, if you have a chance to get better. then you do what is nesscessary
I agree, but do you really want to give up a guy like Hultzen for Span, or a guy like Tyler Pike and a low-to-mid prospect for Revere?
if that is what it takes to get a guy like Span or Revere, then yes do what needs to be done. CF has to be addressed should be a priority
I really don’t think Washington is concerned about starting pitching projects. If I had to guess, they’d want a 2B/3B prospect or a 1B prospect, depending on where they think Zimmerman ends up, and perhaps a high-upside outfielder to eventually replace Span. They still have, despite trading Karns and Ray, Lucas Giolito, one of the highest-upside pitchers around, and Taylor Jordan. Then that rotation of Strasburg, Fister, Gio, and Zimm is nasty as is, plus there’s always Detwiler. The Nationals have a wealth of talent, it’s insane.
I doubt Span and Revere are available, considering RAJ’s apparent mindset that the Phillies are contenders and Washington’s actual spot as contenders.
No, but john Mayberry solves the problem in terms of a RH platoon bat and Ruben would deal him for a fairly limited return in a heartbeat.
There are plenty of AAAA outfielders who hit lefties well.
Bourjous and Lynn from the Cards for Walker, problems solved. Know it won’t happen but what a pitching staff that would be for Cards! Wainwright, Miller, Wacha, Martinez and Walker, WOW! 5 potential Aces.
I was under the impression it was his hamstring issues that were at fault for most of problems last season.
As for the Intestinal problems.. Does Franklin reside in Venezuela during the entire off season? By that, could it be a water, or diet thing from there?
He’s got a chronic inflammatory disease. I don’t remember if it was IBS or Crohn’s, but it’s unpleasant at best and debilitating at worst.
This should not make the M’s any more likely to sign Cruz, it should make them more likely to trade for a right-handed true center fielder. There has to be a player that can play average center field defense, hits lefties and who a team is willing to part with because he doesn’t hit righties well enough. The Mariners could use that player.
Agreed. They should ve been shopping for a Cf and a starting pitcher. In the right circumstances Cruz can be useful
I believe you’re thinking of Casper Wells.
Sad face.
My suspicion is that they won’t make a trade until they determine the health of Morrison and Hart, and the success of Saunders and Smoak. If all those pieces stay healthy and produce, they could be okay between DH/1B/OF. Doubtful, but I imagine they will wait and see how that equation sorts out.
At the very least, we’ll see just how desperate Jack Z. is in the subsequent move(s) that follow.
I see Cruz as the most likely outcome. Vernon Wells, Laynce Nix and Juan Pierre are all low-risk highish reward guys. On the pitching side of things, I see Barry Zito and Bret Myers as possible starter-relievers to look at.
How is Vernon Wells high reward? He’s a horrendous hitter at this point and can’t play a good outfield either. He’s one of the worst players in the game right now. Good-ish career, but he’s totally out of gas.
He still hit .270 agaisnt LHP last year. He could be a platoon bat, and for 500K, I would give him a chance in camp. If those guys don’t work out, a trade for John Mayberry or Chris Heisey could work.
edit; He could platoon at DH with Morrison.
Maybe it’s me, but I’d guess you want a platoon partner to have better than a .700 OPS against LHP. That seems like a very weak platoon, especially since it seems he was mostly used that way last year to optimize his value (198 of his 458 PA against lefties)
Seattle will have a fine defensive outfield with two righthanded hitters if the Mariners trade four years of Dustin Ackley for four expensive years of Atlanta outfielder B.J. Upton and six years of Nick Franklin for six years of Miami outfielder Jake Marisnick and a bullpen arm.
The outfield might not add much to run production but should help the depleted Seattle pitching staff with run prevention.
The M’s will be good to go by signing lefthander Chris Capuano and either Ubaldo Jimenez or Ervin Santana … in my dreams.
You lost me at B.J. Upton.
B.J. Upton is a buy-low, bounce-back candidate after averaging an annual WAR of 3.7 the six seasons preceding last year’s bust.
If the 29-year-old Upton averages half his annual WAR from 2007-12, his team should about break even over the last four years of his contract.
Not at that price. At $15 mil per year, I want someone who is much lower risk. He hasn’t batted over .250 since ’08, his base stealing numbers have steadily declined since ’08, and like you said, last season was a disaster. I have no doubt he’ll bounce back, the question is how much. Way too much money to be gambling with.
Get well soon, Franklin! I feel for you, as a long time crohn’s patient.
i wouldnt mind seeing them give Pierre a shot. Remember 2012 with the Phillies. He still has good speed and can be an affordable option.
You’re an Oakland As fan, aren’t you?
Nah, Phillies are my team but Billy Beane is one of my top 3 favorite celebrities and because of him I aspire to be a major league general manager.
I can’t blame Gutierrez: watching the Mariners over the last few years could have made any of us sick to our stomachs.
I kid, I kid… seriously, get well soon, Franklin.
Now the Rodney signing looks even worse. M’s were ok with Farquhar as closer (best swing and miss % in the majors last year.) Now they need both a right-handed bat in the outfield and another arm in the rotation (Iwakuma down 4-6 weeks, Taijuan Walker battling shoulder soreness.) They could have signed both Nelson Cruz and Ubaldo Jimenez at this point without Rodney, but now they’ll probably have to settle on one or the other because of the unneeded commitment. I’m not big on Cruz at Safeco, but the lineup is too lefty heavy without him to balance out now. Plan? There’s been no plan here…
I didn’t understand it either. The BP wasn’t a serious issue, especially if they brought back Ollie and then way overpaying Rodney? It’s going to be pack a day for you cig smokers watching that guy in the 9th.. He’s no better than Kevin gregg some years and I enjoy watching the M’s also.
Some very odd moves by the FO. Rotation looked thin already before iwakuma injury, or before Paxton and Walker are ready, wasteful spending on Rodney.. Bring in Podsednik, he’s better than nothing, or check in on Cody Ross during ST since it looks like he’s been squeezed out of a job in AZ.
I hope this forces Jack to make an OF move. Trade for Eithier/Kemp, Fowler, Revere, Gardner, Pagan, Brantly, Span, Stubbs? Lot of guys out there with good D, speed, stay healthy, and can at least hit for average and drive some runs in. I think Juan Pierre is still available. Top of the order guy that still can play the outfield at 36. Or finally just pick up Cruz and let LoMo and Hart switch off with him every now and then.
Best of luck Franklin. Must be very tough to not be able to live the dream everyday.
I wonder if the M’s will let Nick Franklin play some center during spring training… so you know… he can compete for a job
You guys are being way, way too easy on Gutierrez. This is a guy who has parlayed the flashes of brilliance that he showed six (6!!) years ago into millions of dollars — all without barely playing at all. The guy clearly doesn’t want to play the game and given that he signed for only $1 MM this year, it’s not a surprise that he decided it just wasn’t worth it.