Brewers general manager Doug Melvin spoke to MLB.com's Adam McCalvy about the team's relatively quiet offseason thus far and some other hot stove items…
- The Brewers are the only team who has yet to sign a free agent to a Major League contract, as MLBTR's Tim Dierkes recently examined. Melvin said the Brewers haven't delved into the free agent market is due to both the team's plan to "go with our young guys" and an overall lack of suitable fits for Milwaukee's payroll. “If you look at a lot of the teams that got involved in free agency in the past few years, it hasn’t been that successful for them — and then there are the players whose price range isn’t even close to what we could consider. We’re putting a lot of faith into our system," Melvin said. “We weren’t going to get [Shin-Soo] Choo. We weren’t going to get Robinson Cano,” Melvin said. “We can look at $5-$6MM, but if we think our guys are better or as good at $500K, why would we make a move just to make a move?”
- Melvin is open to adding a veteran reliever to the young arms in the Milwaukee bullpen, implying that such an addition would come in a trade. "Our bullpen is an area that we’ve talked about maybe whether we would add an experienced piece or not," the GM said.
- The Mets have discussed Ike Davis in trade talks with the Brewers (as well as the Pirates and Orioles) and Melvin confirmed that some talks had taken place. "First base, I’ve had ongoing discussions with Sandy Alderson, but we haven’t gotten to anything where we’re comfortable with the deal from our side, and he’s not been comfortable with the deal from his side.”
- While Melvin declined to say whether he found the Mets' asking price too high, Melvin did say that “I think we’ve pretty well stood by — the one thing we’ve done is we do not want to give up pitching.” The Mets reportedly asked for promising young right-hander Tyler Thornburg in exchange for Davis last month.
Doug Melvin is the biggest GM troll in baseball.
Every year, same story.
All talk no action.
I feel bad for Brewers fans.
Brewers fan here, and I LOVE what Doug does year in and year out. Especially this year
i don’t know man. sometimes it’s good, but zero WS’s is hardly something I can say I love.
They were in the NLCS a few years back… that means they were one of the top 4 teams in the league… with a small market and a small payroll, that’s something to be proud of
meh. i’m more proud of results and not excuses. and that’s hardly something to love year in and year out.
Seventeen of the last 18 World Series winners have had a payroll in the top 15. In the last 18 years, only one team has been able to win the World Series without being ranked in the top 15 for payroll. That team was the 1997 Florida Marlins. You seem to have unrealistic expectations for small market teams. It’s generally not world series or bust for them
and that’s why they remain a small market team
What? Will Doug Melvin’s free agent signings turn Milwaukee into a large market?
haha. don’t jump to such conclusions. all i’m saying is i don’t buy their excuses. this is how they want to run their organization, so therefore these are the results they get. it’s still nothing to be super excited about year in and year out. it’s not my concern what they spend. as fan, i want to see results.
Yes, he does give a lot of excuses, but a lot of them are legit. Losing Ryan Braun was a huge blow.
I feel sorry for you, have fun finishing 4th in the central.
It takes time to building winning teams in small markets. Brewers fans are smart enough to realize that every year can’t be like 2011 when we were in the NLCS. We just continue to love our Brewers and embrace a bad season or two
a bad season or two? we must have completely different standards.
Just realistic
He’s done pretty good with that payroll
Ummm all talk? The last two years he said he expected no big moves. Why don’t you do a little research before you comment.
Yeah a story about how the brewers are doing nothing followed by melvin explaining why they are doing nothing.
Yeah doug, free agency works out for no one. Thank you so much for saving us brewer fans from free agents.
Yeah Doug, because all free agents this year are getting either Cano or Shoo money.
Man, I think Davis has a chance to become the next Chris Davis! I think the Brewers should trade Thornberg to the mets for Davis! Thornberg seems like a solid bullpen piece I doubt he could be successful in the rotation!
Davis has 30 homer potential every year! The Brewers or any team he’s on just needs to adjust his swing!
Davis’s motion is disgusting!! The mets should just tell Davis to keep the swing he had rookie year and just develop/Practice it!
I don’t blame sandy at all for asking other teams for a “potentially good player” for another “potentially good player in Davis”!
Every young player is a potentially good player. Thornburg did just fine in the rotation. If Sandy wanted a bullpen pitcher, I’m sure he could get a good one.
Juan Francisco has 30 HR potential and costs a lot less.
Fransisco also has 300 strikeout potential.
Ike Davis could top him.
I think you guys are forgetting that the Brewers wouldn’t get many years out of Davis. He isn’t a young slugger anymore. Sure Francisco strikes out a lot, but look at Adam Dunn and where he got. Doug Melvin has a hidden treasure with Juan.
If juan fransisco is a hidden treasure, I’m the next queen of england.
Adam Dunn was also getting on base, routinely in the ~.370s or better. Juan’s the next Wily Mo Peña. You can’t be serious about comparing Dunn to Francisco.
It doesnt seem like youve compared their stats. Ike davis will give you more homeruns, about 3 times as many walks (and thus a higher obp), and play better defense.
Ike Davis has already hit 30 in a season and looking at the numbers, is a significantly better hitter. Ike’s worst season is comparable to Juan Francisco’s best seasons. Sure you can make the argument that the Brewers can’t afford it or that it doesn’t make sense for them to trade starting pitching but plain and simple, Ike would be a major upgrade over Francisco.
Davis has spent plenty of time being awful. Averaging what he’s done so far is unlikely to result in determining what he will be. Francisco has had little regular playing time.
You can decree that something is plain and simple but you certainly haven’t provided the logical foundation for that conclusion.
Regardless, Davis is worth a good reliever. Maybe Alderson can fleece someone.
Davis > Francisco, period. He’s better right now and he will always be better – Francisco really does seem like a AAAA player – his numbers have been far worse than even Mike Jacob’s and we see how that turned out. Ike’s had two down halves – first half in 2012 while suffering from Valley Fever and the first half in 2013.
In the second half of 2013, Davis had the 2nd highest OBP of any baseball player, coming in after Mike Trout. Higher than Votto, higher than McCutchen, higher than Werth, Choo, Cabrera, etc. 8th in wRC+ (also includes slugging), just ahead of Miguel Cabrera. In the second half of 2012, Davis hit 20 dingers.
I’m not at all saying he’s in the same conversation as Cabrera or Votto overall – those guys are elite because of their incredible consistency – but the fact is Ike has shown he can knock the tar out of Major League pitching for pretty long stretches.
Juan Francisco has never shown that ability. Ike could be a solid-average 1B with some power and good OBP. Francisco is a fringe Major Leaguer.
Lotsa guys teaching coaching high school baseball or selling real estate put up similar numbers to Davis. You can cherry pick stats to your heart’s content and it isn’t proof of anything.
Really? Lots of guys selling real estate have hit 30 homers in the Majors? That’s news to me.
Yeah, lots of guys hit for power with bad overall numbers. Most of them stay in the minors. Like I said before, you can cherry pick stats like you just did again, but that doesn’t turn Davis into a valuable contract. If he busts again, his 1st round pedigree will keep him rattling around the majors for a few years – that is after Alderson sells him at a yard sale price.
Name three guys who have hit 30+ homers and are now selling real estate. You say there are lots.
You seem to be an easily excitable fellow with all of those exclamation points.
He certainly does! Not a bad way to live life!
The thing is, Thornburg has been successful now in the rotation in Milwaukee. Moving to the NL East and all those Pitcher’s Parks, he stands a far better chance of sticking in the Rotation. Chris Capuano was successful in NY as proof how well Thornburg can do over staying in Milwaukee.
Davis on the other hand a Stikeout in NY is also a K in Milwaukee. Batting .210 in NY vs maybe .215 in MIlwaukee doesn’t make the move all that promising on Milwaukee’s part. Way too much risk of taking on 3mil for likely bad results vs keeping a solid Pitcher at 500k for the next 2years. Whether in the Pen or in the Rotation. I’m expecting Thornburg and Smith to rotate in that 5th spot unless whoever wins it pitchers super effective to leave no question they belong there.
Money or trades aside, Ike Davis would be huge upgrade over Francisco.
That is true except I’m not expecting Francisco to get even 80 Starts at 1b.
Ike might be an upgrade over Francisco, but it’s nowhere close to being “huge.”
It’s not close to “huge”. It’d be more like “massive”.
And a fly ball in ny is a three run homer in milwaukee for davis.
…and if thornburg is a #5 starter in milwaukee, he’s prolly in aaa on most other teams. Kinda like gallardo is our ace but really should be a 2. ..and lohse is a 2 but should be a 3… and estrada is a 3 but should be a 4 or 5
Yes Frogger for about 2 or 3 in a season though. How big an impact do those 3HRs have for Milwaukee vs Thornburg’s 3.25 ERA 30 Starts for the Mets? I label Thornburg the team’s #5 because it’s safe to assume the order based on experience is Lohse,Gallardo,Peralta, Estrada. Thornburg being a #5 starter for 500k pitching to under 4ERA I’m sure is actually better than some team’s Ace or #2 due to expectations and cost. Cost is a big factor. You’re idea that he’s in the AAA on most other teams shows a lack of basic baseball knowledge and understanding.
Do you even understand what a #5 SP will average on the year numbers wise? Average for all MLB teams will be around 5ERA. So yeah Thornburg makes the grade to be a #5 on the majority of teams.
Are you basing thornburgs potential era on the 18 games he pitched last season? His aaa era was over 5.
Cost is only a factor if you turn around and use the money you saved on another position.
The Brewers need pitching more than they need offensive production.
Perhaps, but we cant go another season with a black hole over at first base. We need someone there who will produce. We will need more than tyler thornburg to overcome having yuni b playing every day at first base.
I agree with you on that one, but over the past few years (not last year) the brewers have been one of the most successful offensive teams in the NL. They don’t have Hart this year and yes, a first basemen would help, but the Brewers need pitching to counter the NL Central offensive attack.
Why do you think that Tyler is only a bullpen guy. He might just win that 4th starter spot
I’m curious as to why the Mets seem to be so set on Thornburg (and Rodriguez from the Orioles) when talented young pitching is the one thing the Mets already have. Not saying more wouldn’t be nice but you’d think they’d be trying to swap Davis for a middle infield prospect or something.
I believe the Mets realize that no matter what they do, 2014 will not be a contending year in the absence of Harvey. The stockpiling of pitching is for the purpose of flipping them for position player talent via the trade market either at this year’s deadline or next offseason, so that when Harvey returns and the young guns (Wheeler, Syndergaard, Montero) have more experience under their belts the Mets can shed their surplus and still have arms coming through the system to replace them. (Next year, as is, they will have 9 starters — Colon, Harvey, Wheeler, Niese, Gee, Mejia, Syndergaard, Montero, Hefner — to deal from a position of great strength).
I don’t think that the Mets could get an MLB ready middle infield prospect that has the potential to start with just Davis. On the other hand, they could get a pitching prospect that they could fit in many different roles (bullpen or rotation), or even use in a package to obtain a middle infielder or another need
I’m also interested why they haven’t asked for someone like Tyrone Taylor…Dont they have OF problems? Maybe take a risk themselves and trade for Victor Roach.
You can NEVER have too much pitching. Pitching wins championships. I don’t fault Alderson for trying. I’d rather have a GM who tries to get more in a trade and gets turned down than a GM who trades someone of value and asks for garbage in return. In the past, I would bet the Brewers make this move no questions asked. I think Melvin as well as some other GMs have learned to be more cautious when it comes to trading pitching prospects. The Brewers NEED pitching. Yes, they need a more proven 1B but not at the expense of pitching, especially when you have a bunch of question marks already in your rotation/bullpen.
I don’t see Melvin trading any farm pieces for the foreseeable future unless pitching is the return. I would not trade Taylor or Roache for a 1B stopgap like Ike Davis. Honestly, that is all I seem him being. He really is just not that good. The Brewers are not horrible but they’re not going to be competing for the division in 2014. Don’t kill the future to try to semi compete. The Bucks have tried that model for years and look how it’s worked for them in the NBA…
I wouldn’t trade either of them either, I’m just saying they would make sense for the Mets along with Thornburg.
Both those guys would be a big overpay.
Very happy to see Doug and the org not spending any money this offseason.
The only thing that should be done between now and the trade deadline is praying we can trade Weeks, and hoping Aramis, Gallardo, and Lohse have great first halves of the season so we can trade all 3 at the deadline.
Why are you happy they arent spending money?? They need to spend money to win.
sticking with the dbacks comparison, the two teams had comparable revenue last season (brewers actually made more), comparable tv contacts, comparable attendance, yet the brewers payroll is lower and going down while the dbacks are spending and even seem willing to pay $140 million for a Japanese import for their rotation.
Where is the brewers money going? Doesnt seem to be going into scouting because we no longer have a high rated minor league system as we once did.
justin, it seems like you are in complete rebuild mode.
So you want to compete with the cards, reds, and pirates right now while all three are around 90 win teams?
Why not save money for a year or two and then use the money you saved down the road?
Not complete rebuild mode, just be patient especially with your money mode.
Just need a year of patience to see which SP’s will pan out to be in for the long haul.
Yes I want to compete with the rest of the division!!
You know i might be a little pessimistic and you may be right. With a lineup of-
Segura, Gomez, Braun, Aramis, Lucroy, Khris Davis, Scooter, and a 1st baseman… we could suprise people i guess.
Gallardo, Lohse, Peralta, Estrada, and a 5th isn’t bad either.
I wanted middlebrooks. He could play 1b this year, and 3b when aramis is gone making room for morris.
The lineup isnt bad as long as you dont stick a black hole at first base.loney would have been ok. Morse. Morrison.belt…
A veteran sp amd rp would also help. Peralta, estrada, thornburg, smith should compete for 4 and 5
My comment about middlebrooks isnt showing up
I’d like to Sign Michael Young to either a one or two-year deal. Gives
us that small bridge this year so Rogers and Morris can start the year
in AAA and move up at some point this year or next year, then move Young
to third every now and then to cover for Aramis while he’s here.
PLEASE keep Thornburg and let HUNTER MORRIS start his MLB career at 1st base this year. Lets see what he can do
Melvin should have brought Morris up last fall for the final month. That really p1ssed me off when he didn’t. Like we really needed to see Yuni B and Francisco. We have 2 young 1st base prospects in the minors. If you aren’t going to use them, trade them. Don’t do what you did with Mat Gamel. That was a giant F up!
Are the Brewers high on Thornburg or do they just feel like Davis isn’t worth that much? Thornburg is 25 and at a glance his stats aren’t overly impressive. I also don’t understand why the Mets would want him since they have more glaring needs than pitching.
He has 25 million in additional money from national TV and he does not want to spend more than 6 million for a free agent? Half of that should be spent on players salary. Not to mention all the money he saved on Braun last year in a lost season.
Actually they gave all that money back to the fans. So they didn’t save any money on Braun last year.
““If you look at a lot of the teams that got involved in free agency
in the past few years, it hasn’t been that successful for them”
Worked pretty well for the Red Sox and Pirates.
Also worked well for the Indians.
Not really. The Indians’ success was based more on young, homegrown pitching (Kluber, Salazar) and shrewd trades (Masterson, Yan Gomes). Of the three free agent signings I can think of off the top of my head (Swisher, Bourn, and Kazmir), Bourn wasn’t very good, Swisher was okay, and Kazmir was solid.
Look at what he did when he started last season. Sandy wants him because he can put him in the rotation. Melvin didn’t think 1 year of Aoki was worth Davis. A guy who has a good chance of being a SP for 5 years is a higher price. The O’s and Pirates are willing to trade for him. At least at this point they don’t feel he is worth a high asking price. I don’t get why Alderson thinks he is such a treasure.
His 66 innings last year are a tiny sample size. His minor league numbers indicate his ceiling is probably a 4-5. I don’t think Davis is a fit for the Brewers anyway and the Mets are overvaluing him in hopes of getting a better return.
Its also probably the most reliable and valid sample.
Umm he has 347 minor league innings. Not sure how you can consider 66 in the majors more reliable and valid. Look at Mike Trout’s first 66 ABs.
Ummm, it makes no sense to compare hitters and pitchers, but if you wanted you could also conclude that that makes Thornburg even more valuable since even a great hitter struggled at the major league level.
Reliability and validity aren’t determined by volume alone. What do you conclude when he was working on pitches that he later abandoned?
“I don’t get why Alderson thinks he is such a treasure.”
And that’s why you’re not a GM. Ike’s hit 30 homers before and has proven he can get on base due to one of the higher walk rates in the game. His health has led to inconsistency. Like any good GM, Alderson wants to get as much as he can in a trade and also realizes that he doesn’t have to trade Ike. He’s asking for a lot because if he doesn’t get it, he’ll just slot Ike into the Mets’ 2014 lineup. He’s asking for a lot because he’s not desperate.
Look at previous trades he’s made – a couple of months of Beltrán for Wheeler, a couple of months of Buck and Byrd for Herrera and Vic Black, RA Dickey for d’Arnaud, Syndergaard, and Becerra; do you see the pattern? The guy gets what he wants by sticking to his guns.
So Ike is a treasure. Yet Alderson seems desperate to trade him. I hope he sticks to his guns and keeps him.
Not so sure about the term “treasure” so much but the truth is he’s probably comparable to guys like Adam LaRoche, Adam Lind, and Carlos Peña – has enough power to hit 30 homers, might put up a .350 OBP, and might hit anywhere from .220 to .285 depending on luck and health.
Some say Ike’s got Chris Davis upside; although it wouldn’t be totally shocking if it were to happen, I certainly wouldn’t bet on it.
And that’s why you’re not a GM. Sandy’s asking price is high because he wants to get as much as possible for Ike. If he doesn’t get it, he’ll slot Ike into the Mets’ Opening Day lineup. He’s not desperate.
It failed for a lot of teams too.
same with the teams that didn’t get involved in free agency.
So what’s the point of shopping for expensive players? Given that the roster is almost completely set, which player(s) do you want to dump?
Thornburg WAS the Brewers #1 Prospect to start last season. So yeah, for his late season success to have occurred in the rotation, I’d remain high on him.
Put it this way park factor has to amount to about .5-6ERA for a Starter between Milwaukee and Mets over 30starts. I fully expect Thornburg to be a 3.75ERA pitcher which would mean the Mets are getting a 3.15-.25ERA SP for Ike Davis. And, 3mil more in salary plus after this year, Davis’s price in Arb could mean he’s non-tendered so why would they lose Thornburg for him?
Cuz Ike’s a better 1B than options the Brewers seem to have right now?
Sean Halton?
Not totally convinced. Is there anything the Brewers could send the Dodgers for Scott Van Slyke? That guy would definitely put up better numbers than Halton or Francisco while offering a bit of positional versatility as he can play both corners in addition to 1B. I’m convinced that he could turn into Jayson Werth if given the chance – their offensive profiles and career arcs are uncannily similar up until this point and the guy just needs to get some more playing time.
Got me, kinda hard to tell with the league, age and what not to consider. I guess it would depend on how the team sees the guy.
There are reasons to withhold spending that money. Options on Gallardo/A-Ramirez would be spending that 25mil already+ next season. Braun becomes more expensive each year.
NLCS is a great result
not year in and year out.
Better than the Cubs
that’s still not saying much. you must know doug or something.
We have great attendance every year too. Even with the down year last year we had about the same attendance as the dbacks. They are spending and we are doing nothing.
Worst Local TV contract in all of MLB. I don’t know what the DBacks make with their local contract but it is obviously more than Milwaukee.
According to the Journal Sentinel, melvin says the tv money is $21 million. The new york times said $30 million though. ..and the Dbacks is $31 million.
fangraphs.com/blogs/dodgers-send-shock-waves-throu…
Why is our payroll going down every year now?
You’re thinking the 101million iirc in 2011 should be a base salary plus 25mil in national correct?
No, they lost money that year even having made the playoffs which how much revenue did that make them? So if they don’t make the playoffs you have to believe that 85mil is their profit point with any higher now putting the pressure on attendence and making the Playoffs in order to make money for the collective owners.
I would hate being a Brewer fan, there are no young players to bank on. They had a group of studs that came up together, did well, and now are either gone or suck. Their farm is horrible, they draft horribly, their future is not bright. Either gut the farm and start from scratch, or sign some FA’s to compete and put fans in the stadium. Hovering around 3rd to 5th place is no way to run a franchise, and that’s exactly where they have been the last few years, and looks like that is where they are headed in the future unless something changes. Doug Melvin doesn’t have a clue.
Fans pack Miller Park no matter what
I guess brewer fans love mediocre talent. I guess they don’t need to put a team that competes on the field.
Better than the Cubs.
Who isn’t?
Spoken like a true cubs fan right there
Good one! Lol
If the Brewers had the money like your Cubs, I would bet a lot of money that Melvin could have a more successful team than the Cubs have been in the past 100 years
Won the NL central 3 years ago…? Wild card in 2008…?
They have some young pieces. Scooter Gennett at 2nd, Khris Davis going to be in LF this year. Wily Peralta, Thornburg…. and a few other SP’s that will be good. They’ll be fine. JEAN SEGURA?
I have to say I just don’t get this. AA is/was worshipped on this site for building a great farm. Then he traded that talent for proven major leaguers and that team fell flat on its face. No one says he doesn’t have a clue. In fact, I’d say, and I think most will agree, he’s a pretty good gm. Yet Doug Melvin does the same thing but it actually works and makes it to the nlcs and he “doesn’t have a clue”. You can’t win your division every year. I’m okay with not wasting money on overpriced free agents and letting the young guys play. The farm is better than you think. Are there a lot of high profile, top 100 prospects? No. But there are some guys who can play at the major league level. And let’s be honest, the NL central is a really good division.
You make some good points, but I must note that I no longer believe AA is a solid GM. He got fleeced in the Mets and Marlins trades and that more than cancelled out many of his prior gains.
Also, he lost some credibility with other GMs due to his fishing-for-information “trade tactics.”
So, now that he has gutted his farm system for a shabby return, and is blacklisted from trading with some GMs, it seems AA has experienced a “fall from grace,” to say the least.
They’ve had so much more success than the CUBS at least!!!!!
That’s something to be proud of
‘stros-style rebuild?
Lucroy, Segura, Gennett, and Gomez up the middle, with a slugger in Braun at RF – a pretty strong nucleus that’s in place for the next 3 years at least (plus Khris Davis’s potential in LF). The question will be with the pitching, as it has been for the last 10 years under Melvin where they’ve built a strong fan base while flirting with contention – based primarily on their strong offenses (chicks dig the long ball).
Why not see if we could get Billy Butler from KC for somebody like Thornburg better stats than Davis.
What free agents that are/were out there truly fit the needs of this team? First base is the only position that there’s a need, and there weren’t very many free agents that were enough of an upgrade to make it worth the price. The rotation is set. The only place to add someone would be the bullpen, and Melvin usually looks for a veteran at a discount later in free agency. As Doug said “if we think our guys are better or as good, why would we make a move just to make a move.” And that’s what signing someone would be, making a move just to make a move.