10:37pm: Phillips has a no-trade clause that allows him to block a deal to the Yankees but the Reds did not ask him to waive his no-trade, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Meanwhile, the Yankees continue to say that they are reluctant to trade Gardner, who will earn a little more than $4MM in his walk year (link).
10:05pm: Before the Yankees turned down the proposed swap, Phillips asked for his contract to be re-opened to pay him more money to agree to the deal, a National League source tells Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (on Twitter).
9:22pm: Both Brandon Phillips and Brett Gardner have seen their names pop up in trade rumors recently, but Jon Heyman of CBS Sports reports (via Twitter) that the two of them actually had their name in the same deal. The Yankees, according to Heyman, turned down a Phillips-for-Gardner swap that was proposed by the Reds.
Phillips, 32, regressed to a .261/.310/.396 batting line with 18 homers in 2013. Always one of baseball's best defenders at second base, Phillips didn't disappoint on that front, turning in a strong +8.5 UZR/150 mark. The Yankees are a logical suitor for Phillips, given the fact that they just lost Robinson Cano to the Mariners late last week. However, though he's cheaper than Cano, Phillips is still owed $50MM over the next four years — his age-32 through age-35 seasons.
Gardner, 30, also saw his role come into question due to the Yankees' free agent decisions. New York inked Jacoby Ellsbury to a massive seven-year, $153MM contract, giving them an outfield mixture of Ellsbury, Gardner, Ichiro Suzuki, Alfonso Soriano and Vernon Wells. Gardner is viewed as superior to most of those options and likely appeals to Cincinnati because he could play center field for a season while top prospect Billy Hamilton gets some additional minor league seasoning. Gardner batted .273/.344/.416 with eight homers, 24 steals and a league-leading 10 triples in 2013. That would make him a dynamic leadoff option to replace Shin-Soo Choo atop Cincinnati's lineup while delivering elite center field defense.
The trade would fill a need for both teams, so it'll be interesting to see if they revisit the framework down the line, perhaps adding other pieces to make it more appealing to the Yankees.
Pitching = Championships…..get that pitching for Gardner
batting = championships too. so i guess that means pitching = batting.
You just blew my mind.
Just like you to underrate defense.Defense wins championships defense=offense=pitching.
i can’t believe you went there and completely overlooked championships = money, so therefore money = defense = pitching = batting.
and of course money = the root of all evil.
So the root of all evil = defense = pitching = batting
i don’t know how we missed that. so clearly all you need for championships is evil.
Explains why the Yanks have the most……heh heh heh
Sorry, but “the LOVE of money is the root of all evil” = defense=pitching=batting, etc.
1 Timothy 6:10
i can’t believe you went there and completely overlooked championships = money, so therefore money = defense = pitching = batting.
This reminds me of one of my favorite baseball quotes of all time..
“Good pitching beats good hitting, and vice versa.” – Yogi Berra
man was brilliant.
Only in the NL :p
How cliche and inaccurate.
But the Yankees do need more pitching, but it doesn’t win championships
I personally consider Phillips a massively overrated player at this point in his career, but I would have made this deal if I were the Yankees.
Why trade for the “overrated” player who is owed a good amount of $ still and is declining?
…Because they’re the Yankees?
I wouldn’t, his offense is declining, he is very overpaid, and Gardner still provides value. I think that unless Reds were willing to pay most of contract that you shouldn’t have to give up that much to get Phillips.
Very overpaid? An inferior same aged player in Infante is about to get just $2M less per season. Infante 2.7 WAR avg last four years, Phillips 3.6 WAR avg last four seasons. Most of Phillips “decline” was due to an injury he played through last year.
I agree.. people are acting as if this is a bad contract. Meanwhile, in today’s market this is actually below average.
I bet if Phillips was a free agent this offseason he would get a 3year/39million+ contract
So in other words, he might get about $11 million less than he’s currently under contract for?
But there is the very problem. Who wants to give up anything of value for him then?
$10M last season for a 1.6 WAR and .706 OPS is very overpaid, yes.
exactly slasher. He got hbp on foreman in pitt. and was not the same. This guy would be a steal for the nyy. could hit 20hr. drive in 80-90 and win a gold glove for yanks.
Yes because the Reds want to continue paying for Phillips while only getting 1 year of Gardner. Makes perfect sense for a mid market team to do that. You overrate Gardner while underrate Phillips based on 1 year that he tried to hit with a bad hand after being hit for the 100th time by Pirates pitchers.
Phillips is still an above average defensive player, even if his offensive/baserunning numbers have slipped. He benefits from batting behind a solid top of the lineup in Cincy, which he would still have for the Yankees. Hitting in Yankee Stadium wouldn’t hurt his power numbers. And as slasher016 just pointed out below me, he’s better than Infante, who is the next best option in a relatively weak market.
I’m not saying that Gardner isn’t valuable, but Soriano, Ellsbury, and Beltan combined for a WAR of around 10 last season. Even factoring in the age of Beltran and Soriano, their outfield will still be pretty solid with or without Gardner. They’re in more need of a starting caliber second baseman than another outfielder.
“Hitting in Yankee Stadium wouldn’t hurt his power numbers. ”
1 – His power numbers have declined heavily for the past 2 years and he’s played in a hitters park the past 8 years
2- Yankee Stadium is not a RH hitters park.
That made no sense for the Yankees.
Yes it doesn’t make sense, because the Yankees are usually the ones who pay the declining players a lot of $. For once they did the smart move
Good.
well if Im the Yankees i do the trade if the Reds agree to pick up some of his contract. Hes still a good option at 2B. And a platoon of Johnson/ Reynolds at 3B would give the Yanks a very potent lineup. I think this deal can still happen though. My guess is the Yankees want to see what the Tanaka situation is like, because if hes not posted they would look to trade Gardner for a SP. I do like the idea of playing Gardener throughout the OF giving Beltran, Soriano (he doesnt like DHing everyday) and even Ellsbury days off.
“well if Im the Yankees i do the trade if the Reds agree to pick up some of his contract”
So would I, but the Reds don’t plan on doing that. And not only that, but the last update said Phillips wants even more money.
He is a good option at 2B, sure, but if the Yanks decided to trade Gardner, it should be for pitching. I’d rather them try sign Infante and keep Gardner than lose Gardner for Phillips. Infante + Gardner >>>> Phillips and no Gardner
At the end of the day, you could sign basically the exact same player (Infante) for the same contract w/o giving up one of the fastest guys in the league who consistently puts up .340+ obp’s.
Even w/o the contract situation, Gardner is probably the better player in a straight up comparison
well it might be something like this:
Infante + Gardner + Tanaka
or
Philips + Tanaka
or
Infante + #3/#4 type starter
I think everything depends on Tanaka honestly, which is why the Yankees have seemed to slow down on their spending spree for now. But i agree, if the Yanks have to take that entire contract, not worth it.
The only thing I can think of is that the Yankees value pitching far more than 2B. Phillips is good, and this seemed like a logical trade but if we get pitching we are in much better shape.
Should have made the deal.
– Reds fan
Who will the Yankees start at second and where will Gardner find time in that outfield?
Unknown on who the starting 2B is at this point. And Gardner will be in LF. I don’t know how that’s so hard to figure out.
They have Wells, Ichiro, Ellsbury, Beltran, and Gardner. I don’t think it would kill them to move one for a solid 2B
Wells will be cut, Ichiro will be on the bench. L/C/R is Gardner/Ellsbury/Beltran with Soriano in the mix as well
Boy. As a Yanks fan, I would have made this deal in a second. I was hoping for a Gardner-for-Phillips swap, but assumed the Yanks would have to cough up a mid-tier prospect to get it done. Instead they are the ones turning down a straight up trade? I’d love Phillips on this roster.
Gardner’s younger, cheaper and better. Why on earth would you want to trade him for Phillips straight up?
Because he’s a free agent after this season.
I’d rather have nothing than Brandon Phillips for three years, $39 million after 2014.
That wouldn’t even be one of the worst 5 contracts on this team.
So what. It would just add another bad one on.
That’s my point. Weird place to draw a line in the sand.
Sorry I’m confused, are you saying good move or bad move by the Yankees to turn it down?
Good move to turn it down. Surprised if it was due to the contract.
Sorry I’m confused, are you saying good move or bad move by the Yankees to turn it down?
That’s my point. Weird place to draw a line in the sand.
thats actually a pretty good contract in today’s market.
So just sign Infante (who is probably a slightly better hitter than Phillips) w/o having to give up a valuable asset in Gardner
infante is not even close to a better hitter than phillips, and he doesnt have 2 gold gloves, this was the ONLY movie this off season that actaully made sense for the yankees to make…they will trade for phillips just prob. trying to get cin to pay some contract
Yeah, but besides those things they’re practically equivalent…
Yeah, but besides those things they’re practically equivalent…
Why is keeping him that great for? He’s always been vastly overrated by the Yankees for no reason whatsoever.A decent hitter good defender he isn’t Ichiro when he was in his prime.
No one said he was Ichiro in his prime.
Never said he was just that he’s treated in that way never did I say he was Ichiro
No one said he was Ichiro in his prime.
And he certainly isn’t bonds in his prime.
How is Gardner ever been better than Phillips? Explain that one.
35 points of OBP + real value on basepaths.
If you look at HR and RBI, he isn’t
If you look at almost anything else, he is.
that’s your problem right there. you’re looking too much at the big picture.
Defensively …even if it is at a different position, Gardner is not better.
Phillips had his worst year in a while, his numbers went down after being hit in the hand. He is not that old and past his prime.
He is more than enough for a one on one trade for Gardner….especially with Gardner gone in FA the following year.
Not sure why you’re comparing a 2B defense to a LF/CF defense. But if you want to, you’d still lose the argument.,
Garnder’s career UZR/150 is 23.0. Phillips’ career UZR/150 at 2B is 8.4
I did state that even at a Different Position….. and UZR is the be all to compare defense?
I think a lot of you have never seen Phillips play more than a handful, if that…of games. You are really underrating Phillips while overrating Gardner. But hey….he does have grit….he does get his uniform dirty and looks like he wants to win more than anyone out on the field.
I think it is a good trade for both sides as it fills a need for both….. but I do not think Gardner is better than Phillips and I do not think Phillips is that much better than Gardner, but he is sure not worse than what most of you are making him out to be.
No it’s quite the opposite. You are overrating Philips and underrating Gardner. Phillips value has declined and will only continue to decline at his age. And he still has 4 years left on his deal. If Reds offered to pay some of the contract, different story.
They only have about 3 years of age difference. Phillips is not Juan Franco….barely hanging on with arthritic knees while Gardner is as durable as Carl Ripken.
Phillips has not declined every year….. until this year when again….he was hit on the hand and his numbers dropped while playing through a bad hand.
His numbers were not declining that badly…… except for his SB. he does not run anymore. He still has speed and knows how to run.
I mean come on….you act like Phillips is Matt Adams as a runner and Dick Stuart as a fielder.
Gardner costs less,hits for a higher average and is younger than Phillips.Phillips has 50 Million left on his deal.Phillips would have had a much worse year if Choo had not batted ahead of him.With Choo leaving Phillips could be highly over priced.And if Phillips average drops below last years .261 Gardner will be better regardless of the money.
This is what tells me that hardly anyone here knows much about Phillips as a player besides just his second half numbers.
He was the #2 hitter between Choo and Votto going into the year and was forced by Baker to be the #4 hitter.
He changed his approach to do that and was still hitting near .300 and on pace for over 100 RBI, bad stat or not….. then he was hit on the hand by another Pirates pitcher as they were headhunting him all year….and he then went down after that and ended up with his worst numbers in several years.
Gardner (30 years old)
2013 – .273/.344/.416/.759 (539 ABs, 8 HR)
2012 – Injured nearly entire season
2011 – .259/.345/.369/.713 (510 ABs, 7 HR)
2010 – .277/.383/.379/.762 (477 ABs, 5 HR)
He has a very good OBP, that trumps Phillips but everything else is not much better, if it even is than what Phillips does.
have you seen Phillips play defense at 2B…he is basically a SS playing 2B with his range and arm. He does not get as injured as much as Gardner does.
The contract is the problem people are basically having IMO, not the fact that it is an even trade for both as far as needs go.
That’s exactly right. It’s the contract. And it’s not just the $ , it’s the years.
Fine…have the Reds throw in Ondrusek and since the Yankees are all of a sudden the Royals and cannot afford the money….. offer to pay 25% of the remaining contract.
On the basepaths , defensively (based on UZR) , and better at getting on base.
How is Gardner ever been better than Phillips? Explain that one.
Because Gardner plays a position that is full and Phillips plays a position that is up in the air. The same reason every player is traded or traded for.
And give up something of value for an overpaid declining player. I don’t think they should have to give up Gardner for him.
Gardner is basically the Yankees 4th OF most likely…..you are trading from a position that you do not need for a position of need.
Perhaps the Reds would be better served asking for Richard (Do no censor me MLB TR for saying the D word) Tidrow and Otto Velez.
Gardner is the LFer, not the 4th OFer. I don’t know who made that 4th OFer thing up
I like the idea, but the money is definitely an issue. The Yankees do have money, but now they have to calm themselves because of going over the 198 mil. mark.
Last I heard, they would need A-Rod to get suspended the whole year to reach that $189 mark.
I think they will surpas the 189 mark. I think they saw that revenues weren’t high enough to make it worth it. Farm system overhaul needs to be a long term strategy, not something they can do overnight.
It obviously is a strategy they decided to bunk on as they have lost draft picks in the 1st-3rd rounds, and only have recieved back a pair of 2nd round and comp picks.
under 15 million dollars and it’s a big deal?
Well, 15 million is a big deal. They don’t have any pitching. They need to fill those holes. He’s as well 32; they need to stop getting older players who are under contract. It may only be three years, but we always know what happens with those contacts.
it’s 10 not 15 20 or even 25 so I don’t get it only 5 years not 10
I’m elated that they turned it down. I know the Yankees have needs, but I refuse to accept Phillips as a solution for any of them.
I’m really upset that I never thought of the pun in your new username even once during Ellsbury’s Red Sox career.
I didn’t want to have to pull it out of my bag of tricks. I guess it’s better than Doctor Choo…
I also JUST got that “ObiWanCanobi” was a play on Cano and not just a misspelling. Man, you’re obviously my superior when it comes to puns.
Pitching wins championships
bats hit balls
But offense will get them back to the post season.
Oft repeated phrase that doesn’t have much actual data behind it.
50% of the teams with a SP in the championship games will win while the other 50% will lose. so clearly pitching wins everything. no one needs to score a run at all.
well…. if nobody scores…. the game doesnt end…. soooooo….
50% of the teams with a SP in the championship games will win while the other 50% will lose. so clearly pitching wins everything. no one needs to score a run at all.
Ask the Dodgers how that went this year.
Yeah, and the Red Sox
…and Carlos Beltran. Glad the Yankees didn’t do this.
do not want that contract. they need to include homer bailey and we’ll throw in some prospects
What prospects? Did they resign Shelly Duncan?
nah it was eric duncan
Can they package Hensley Muelens and Brian Taylor with Gardner? Kevin Maas must still have some value.
Can they package Hensley Muelens and Brian Taylor with Gardner? Kevin Maas must still have some value.
I think Gardner is headed to SF. For what I do not know but I have a hunch.
I hope so. He would offer good speed and defense as well as be a back-up top of the order hitter in case Pagan or Scutaro falter.
Turn down for what?
Glad they did not make the trade
if the Yankees think they can get better for Gardner, good luck.
stats wise Gardner is overrated.
stats wise Phillips is the better player, and he fills a NEED.
i’m not so sure it was about getting better. i think it was more about not wanting dead weight.
Gardner is a speed threat, the most underrated aspect of the game. Phillips is declining and only has pop on Gardner at this point
I love speed and think it gets udnerrated in the game. but for the Yankees what good is Gardner as a speed player off the bench. most of Gardner’s game is speed.
Phillips is only 32 years old. he can still put up some good numbers.
if he’s coming off the bench, i imagine his value is the same as any player with speed coming off the bench for any team. i’m confused as to what there is to understand about this.
whoa re the Yankees going to use at 2B? all they have right now is Kelly Johnson.
who knows. season hasn’t even started yet. there might be some time to figure that out still without having to take on a bad contract.
who knows. season hasn’t even started yet. there might be some time to figure that out still without having to take on a bad contract.
I love speed and think it gets udnerrated in the game. but for the Yankees what good is Gardner as a speed player off the bench. most of Gardner’s game is speed.
Phillips is only 32 years old. he can still put up some good numbers.
Gardner is one of the best defensive out fielders in the game., is a 30+ steal threat and has a better obp than Phillips. How exactly is he overrated?
because he said so?
Tread lightly..
Tread lightly..
because he said so?
there are 4th OF types who can do what Gardner does given the same opportunity.
but they already have Gardner.
There are 4th OFs that can deliver 7 WAR seasons? Where?
well I don’t believe in WAR anyways. different sites can’t even come up with the same WAR and defensive ratings are rated different.
Not surprised you seem to be type to believe in the will to win statistic.
how dare you knock it?
Too new for my taste.
it’s a stat not a religion. it’s not based on faith.
Yes, but I’m sure you’re all about the “eye” test. That’s objectivity for you. Nice thing about stats is that whether you believe in them or not, they exist. So, you can refuse to believe in WAR, democracy or fajitas and it really doesn’t matter.
LOL far far from the truth.
What does “stats wise he’s overrated” even mean?
108 wrc vs a wrc of 91. ya phillips is mucg better.
Thank god, i feel like Cashman has learned a big lesson since Arod. Just get Infante, who will hit for a batter average, basically the same defense for cheaper and less years.
I’d like to hear what Yankee fans think they can get for a guy like Gardner who’s in his walk year. Plus, you have five OF’s.
I don’t know what to think of that.They need a righty bat and they had one thrown into their laps and they decided not to go with it. Not sure what they’re thinking.They have too many left handed hitters as of this minute.
“Plus, you have five OF’s.” So? They should clear the log jam by getting rid of the better OF instead of ridding themselves of dead weight?
Yes I agree. “I think Gardner is headed to SF. For what I do not know but I have a hunch.” for Madison Bumgarner right? I do that deal in a heart beat.
No way its straight up
I really hope SF isn’t that foolish
I would rather sit through another season with Blanco platooning in left than trade Bumgarner for any left fielder in the game.
I would rather sit through another season with Blanco platooning in left than trade Bumgarner for any left fielder in the game.
As a Yankee fan, yes please, and sprint from the negotiations as fast as humanly possible.
Won’t happen, I’m still holding out hope for a Gardner for Homer Bailey swap. Makes too much sense.
No way Gardner lands the Yankees Bumgarner
Is it even fair to say that Gardner is a more valuable player overall than Phillips? (Based on WAR he is). At the rate Phillips has gone the past 3 years, there’s a good chance that Gardner next year will have a higher WAR than Phillips in his next 2 years combined.
Heck, Gardner was even the better hitter last year. wRC+ 108 for Gardner, wRC+ 91 for Phillips
Gardner is very undervalued player. He gets hurt a fair bit, but when he plays, he hits, he can run and he plays great defense. Not much power there, but a very good OF. And this is coming from a guy that can’t stand the Yankees.
At least 1 non-Yankee fan understands how valuable he is. Are there any other non-Yankee fans who also see how much Phillips has declined (offensively) the past 2 years?
I wouldn’t be shocked to see Gardner deliver more WAR than any of the Yankees OFs over the next 3 seasons.
I’m pretty sure sox fans began to admit his value once we signed ellsbury.
i do. and i hate both teams. i like what gardner has to offer and even if he’s never a superstar, he’s still way more valuable to the yankees right now than taking that awful contract of phillips.
i do. and i hate both teams. i like what gardner has to offer and even if he’s never a superstar, he’s still way more valuable to the yankees right now than taking that awful contract of phillips.
Gardner is so perennially undervalued, I really don’t believe he’d ever fetch equal value in a trade.
True. Casual fans (even those who are more than a little familiar with the Yankees) seem to have little grasp as to just how good he is.
Aren’t you the guy who thinks Mark Trumbo is good?
I think he’s underrated in the eyes of many of the recent critiques & that WAR is far from gospel if that’s what you mean. Power mitigates a lot of shortcomings and if Trumbo can play an acceptable LF (no given, granted) then I think he’ll be just fine.
I think Brett Gardner is better than Trumbo if that helps. Gardner is so often casually dismissed as a ‘nice player’ that it’s sort of obnoxious…
True. Casual fans (even those who are more than a little familiar with the Yankees) seem to have little grasp as to just how good he is.
I agree Gardner is more valuable, he had 10 triples last year, speed threat, and is better at hitting for contact. Phillips will obviously you give you more homeruns but i feel we have attended that need enough.
I agree Gardner is more valuable, he had 10 triples last year, speed threat, and is better at hitting for contact. Phillips will obviously you give you more homeruns but i feel we have attended that need enough.
Completely shocked, the Yankees must feel they have a good chance of landing Infante IMO
I read on rotoworld that Infante wants a 4 year deal, and that the Yankees have no intentions of giving him 4 years.
They also had no intentions of giving Beltran a 3 year deal……..and then…..
Well, Phillips is on a four year deal …
I read on rotoworld that Infante wants a 4 year deal, and that the Yankees have no intentions of giving him 4 years.
I don’t see how not getting a 2nd baseman better than the best 2b on the market, Infante, is considered a smart move. And assuming Gardner was the centerpiece of that proposed trade, who’s become expendable after the Ellsbury acquisition, I consider that pretty dumb.
Glad to see Cashman turn down that deal. Phillips is nice but not at the cost of Gardner AND 4 years / $50MM for a guy on the wrong side of 30.
Infante is the other 2nd baseman and he’s 31 so the age part is a wash.Unless they trade Gardner for pitching and maybe sign cruz? Not sure how it would all work out.
gardner might be yanks best bargaining chip. I think they use him to try to get a pitcher. Maybe a 3 at least a four. Cashman might have to get creative and get a third
team involved.
Maybe a 3 or 4 with one year of control left.
I don’t know how amenable they’d be to making a deal now, but would a framework built around Gardner for Franklin or Ackley in Seattle make sense?
Yup, for Franklin is a decent match.
What is the relative value of four years of Brandon Phillips at $50 million and four years of Dustin Ackley in his final four seasons before free agency? The Oliver projections have Phillips and Ackley valued at 7.1 WAR apiece over the next four seasons.
I can’t place too much weight on these small samples, but I found interesting the post-All Star Game lines for these three American League centerfielders this season:
Player A 217 PA, .285/.330/.435/.765
Player B 213 PA, .274/.354/.403/.757
Player C 208 PA, .304/.374/.435/.809
Player A is Jacoby Ellsbury, Player B is Gardner and Player C is Ackley, the Seattle secondbaseman who played out of position in centerfield after the All Star break.
In the trade market, what is the relative value of one year of the 30-year-old Gardner and four years of the 25-year-old Ackley?
As an M’s fan I would trade them in a heartbeat. Ackley’s “big 2nd half” was just a hot August. And his September was saved by pitchers walking him 15 times.
July:.621
Aug:1.017
Sept:.665
I don’t know how amenable they’d be to making a deal now, but would a framework built around Gardner for Franklin or Ackley in Seattle make sense?
Yanks should try and get Cingrani for Gardner if possible. Cheap young lefty
good grief
What do you expect to get back for Gardner? Phillips was only offered because he’s declining and owed a lot of money
i meant it as there is zero chance Gardner nets Cingrani.. these ideas are hilarious, All this time Gardner has been a top 5 OF in baseball apparently lol
In a perfect world they would.
Cingrani is/was one of the top pitching prospects in baseball. no chance he could be had for someone like Gardner.
What? Cingrani is still uprlven and he only profiles as a mid/back end guy. Gardner is easily worth him.
you need to go look at Cingrani again if you think hes only gonna be a mid-backend starter..
I’d bet this trade scenario is revisited in some other form with at least 2 other players involved. The Yankees have a need at 2nd. They also have a pitching need. If Tanaka is posted and the Yankees get him, that would make the likelihood even greater that it is revisited.
Maybe if a third team is involved the reds will still want to compete so they won’t trade any major pitcher. If Stephenson comes up maybe they trade their worst starter, not sure who that would be.
There have been rumblings about Bailey being traded. Personally, i don’t see him as a TOR pitcher even with his 2 no no’s. I’m not sure who fills his void in the rotation if he’s traded though. That could be an impetus to get a 3rd team involved.
I guess he is inconsistent but I’d imagine it take a lot to get him. Stephenson is one of the their two good prospects, i think he could be ready by mid season but who knows. the reds don’t have the greatest system but i’m guessing they might have a guy that make taking phillips worth while.
Not at all. they are seeking to trade him purely for clubhouse reasons.
There have been rumblings about Bailey being traded. Personally, i don’t see him as a TOR pitcher even with his 2 no no’s. I’m not sure who fills his void in the rotation if he’s traded though. That could be an impetus to get a 3rd team involved.
Maybe if a third team is involved the reds will still want to compete so they won’t trade any major pitcher. If Stephenson comes up maybe they trade their worst starter, not sure who that would be.
Well yeah, Gardner is clearly the better player and the contract isn’t an albatross
Well yeah, Gardner is clearly the better player and the contract isn’t an albatross
Honestly, only way im trading Gardner is a package for Daniel Murphy..or even Pablo Sandoval. Giants need an OF
Murphs defense is atrocious though right?
It seemed to get better, Plus he is supposedly better at third.
Ichiro and a low tier minor leaguer for Phillips? I know that Ichiro is not a CF anymore, but there was a lot of debate last year when the Reds acquired Choo. Many thought that Jay Bruce should play CF instead of Choo. How about move Brue to CF, Ichiro in RF and Phillips in pinstripes?
Ichiro is a below average ballplayer at this point in his career. I have all the respect as does everyone else for him, but I think he should hang up the cleats after next season.
That’s closer to fair, but the Reds want as little money back as possible.
Wow. They should have done it. What do the Yankees think Gardner’s worth anyway?
A pitcher over a declining 2B owed a good amount of money
whatever it is, it’s better than a declining player with a bad contract.
Alot more than they should
Alot more than they should
Oh how the mighty fall… Three years ago, Jocketty would have laughed Cashman off the phone if he offered Gardner for Phillips.
You do realize that Heyman is a shill for the Yankees right????
He has always had that agenda…
His other in to getting the word out no matter if it is true or not is when Boras needs him.
Somehow this whole Heyman report stinks especially since the Reds haven’t even offered to trade Brandon to anyone else and even came out last week and said so.
Take a ton of salt when it comes to Heyman inside info people…
Rosenthal (who is a Mets fan from what I’ve heard) said the sources confirmed this to be true.
True he confirmed something however … What rosenthal said was that his source said that the REDs DIDN”T ask for a waiver on the no trade. That seems to me to be not quite what heyman said. And next thing is why didn’t the reds ask him for a waiver if they started the deal or ask him for his feeling first. But alas we will never know. Have a good one~!
What are you even talking about?
I was referring to Brandon Phillips not being as valuable as he once was. Your rant was not necessary…
You do realize that Heyman is a shill for the Yankees right????
He has always had that agenda…
His other in to getting the word out no matter if it is true or not is when Boras needs him.
Somehow this whole Heyman report stinks especially since the Reds haven’t even offered to trade Brandon to anyone else and even came out last week and said so.
Take a ton of salt when it comes to Heyman inside info people…
“If the old man dies, make the deal ,Sonny”. NY needs to make this deal and buy pitching.
I would have pulled the trigger on this one. Gardner is not old enough to be on the Yankees. Trade him and bring him back in 10 years.
By then Gardner would be on the dodgers or angels with some horrible contract
Smart move. Gardner is much more valuable.
I agree it would b nice to get a SP for Gardner but even if the Reds offer Bailey or Leake the jistory shows SPs that go from NL to AL struggle a bit bc of the ALs stacked lineups w.the DH so yea I wouldn’t take Phillips and his full contract straight up for Gardner….but what about Pbillips and Bailey for Gardner JR Murphy Nunez and a prospect
Bailey has more value than that by himself.
One year of gardner is more valuable than one year of bailey by himself.
Homer Bailey is worth a lot more than Brett Gardner.
Not according to war he isn’t…
I think Gardner is undervalued, but that’s crazy … Bailey is a top flight SP.
In some years he is. He has been trending upwards I like him but his inconsistency scares me., really only one season with a fip under 4. Also offensive players simply get higher war. I wouldn’t mind trading sanchez and gardner for bailey if they the yankees scouts like him.
Gardner’s contract only runs through next year? The only explanation I can see for the Yankees not doing this is money. When have they ever cared about money?
Phillips has no value. $52m commitment is probably more than he can give you in equivalent production. Yanks can sign Infante then trade Gardner for so,etching better.
I don’t think it’s the only explanation. Gardner brings more to the table than Phillips at the moment (especially value-wise when those $ are considered) and he’s a very, very useful piece for 2014, even if he’s not around after this year.
well…they are also building within a budget.
Right, making Gardner an even better fit than Phillips for this Yankees team. I’m saying money aside, Gardner is a more useful piece alone and when you do consider money, it makes Gardner the clear-cut better choice. Just saying money isn’t the only explanation for the rejected deal.
yep.
Didn’t Walt Jocketty say the Yankees had leaked all of the rumors about Brandon Phillips specifically to pressure Cano?
If they’re not going to get phillips they might as well get Infante before he gets signed.
thats odd.
BP’s numbers of late do not reflect his skill level. He is an elite defenseman, and a jack-of-all-trades, with his one real weakness being taking walks. Let us not forget, however, that he had a terrible manager that always bounced him around the batting order to places he never should have been, i.e. leadoff, cleanup.
even if his numbers don’t reflect his skills, he still has to produce. and his numbers show his production is declining.
103 RBI not production? and i cannot stress enough, if he is utilized properly, the numbers should start to reflect that. but, hey, i’m a sox fan, so im happy NYY didnt buy low on phillips.
I don’t think paying phillips that much money and trading a 3-5 war player is buying low anyway. And ya i doubt cash cares about rbis.
Remember, this is the Yankees we are talking about. They just gave one of the biggest contracts in the game to a player with the same skill set as Gardner, but slightly better. Also, 6 OFers and 0 quality 2B doesnt add up.
Ells had double the war of gardner. Also phillips is not a quality second baseman and is only getting worse. Overall they may have overpaid ells by 20 million. Once phillips hits below .700 ops, which is probably next yr, they would essentially be wasting that much in a shorter span.
this is what happens when people become consumed by different stats. baseball is extremely volatile, you cannot predict a players career that simply. doubt BP’s OPS is anywhere near that low.
Well it was barely above it this year and he is in a clear decline.
two years of declining numbers at the start of his 30s is not a clear decline.
try expanding your horizons beyond one stat.
object of the game? oh yeah, to outscore your opponent. Elite defender that drives in runs. If thats not valuable then idk what game we are playing anymore.
it’s called baseball. and there’s more to evaluating a guy’s production than looking at one stat. it’s not a difficult concept to grasp. if it were that simple then that must mean he had a better year than Trout?
Never said RBI is any sort of end all be all. I love the way this guy plays, and a few years ago would have easily called him the 3rd best 2B in MLB. He would be a big addition to that team, especially under a manager that has any brain cells. Sure as hell beats some mix of Johnson, Ryan, and Nunez.
18 HR in each of the last 4 years. pretty consistent there. he’s only 32 years old, almost the same age as the previous Yankees 2B who just signed a 10 year contract.
you can cherry pick his stats to argue either side. if you care to look at them overall, he’s been declining.
OK Now it makes sense!
@JonHeymanCBS – NL source: before yanks turned down phillips-for-gardner bid, phillips asked to re-open his contract (add $) to agree to deal
Okay, so he just wanted more money…-_-‘ Really Brandon?
in that case good move on NYY. forget BP just get Infante
This doesn’t seem right…he doesn’t have a no-trade clause and doesn’t have the 10 years necessary for 10/5….
I believe he does. Came up in 2002, played first full season with Indians in 2003 and has been with the Reds for 8 seasons.
According to baseball-reference he has 9.022 years.
Must be something in his contract then I would guess. Maybe not a full no-trade but partial?
that makes more sense. maybe if the Reds were willing to eat some of the existing contract, but not if Phillips wanted even more money himself.
Interesting. I think the move to clean-up is what hurt BP more than anything last year. It changed his hitting approach and his numbers showed that. Given that the Royals are also in need of a 2B, I could see them moving a Lorenzo Cain or David Lough. But is this a sign that the Yanks are closer with OI than they say they are? Or are they going to rely on Kelly Johnson to muster up some offense?
“Phillips asked for his contract to be re-opened to pay him more money to agree to the deal”
Be happy with what you already have, Brandon. Your overpaid salary is a huge reason why the Reds don’t want you anymore.
Im sorry, but Phillips being an elite defender, and producing 18 homers and 100 RBIs at SECOND BASE is not worth 12M/yr? I dont get why not.
Probably because he can’t walk at all, and overall is a below average offensive player at this point.
I understand that, but the fact that he is that productive at second base…just seems odd to me that teams wouldn’t want him for that amount, especially since his defense is insane.
They need pitching more than a declining 2B on a not so great contract.
You’re crazy if you think Johnson at 2B will help the Yankees win.
I never said such a thing. I said they need pitching more than a 2B
Because he is below average offensively. You look at RBI’s Way too much. RBI’s are a team dependent stat. With the exception of a HR, you can’t drive in RBI’s if the hitters who hit before you rarely get on base. Why do you think leadoff hitters get very few RBI’s?
Ok forgot the RBIs then, the power is still there..
But you cant discredit RBIs cause hitting with runners in scoring position or on base is a different beast.
99 and 92 OPS+ the last 2 years. Below .400 slugging percentage last year.
Keep in mind, his defense makes up a ton of his value. Maybe I just overvalue him compared to other people, but he seems like a deal at 12M
That’s what keeps his value up a bit as well.
yeah, but have you bothered to look at his fourth inning doubles with 1 out? if you do, you’d see he’s a superstar in the making.
NYY offense should be stronger than CIN, and in that ball park, dont see anyway he regresses with those numbers.
Phillips played in the better hr park last year. He is already regressing and if we assume the park will help him than we need to assume it would help any second baseman in the same way especially johnson.
He’s not really a leadoff hitter.
I”m just talking about leadoff hitters in general, not one in particular.
He’s not really a hitter anyways.
They should only trade Gardner for a SP’er. They have Johnson at 2B, he is good enough. Philips final 3 years likely will be worse than Cano’s last 3 years in Seattle.
Does Phillips even have 10-and-5 rights?
Yes.
According to Baseball Reference, Phillips only has 9.022 years of service.
Also, “Source” just told Ken Rosenthal that Phillips apparently has no-trade clause to Yankees, which would explain why he vetoed it.
He asked for more money? Whatta guy.
Am I missing something? Phillips is gg caliber 2b, same runs as Gardner, twice as many HRs, 100 RBIs (twice as many as Gardner) comparable OBPs last year. How are people thinking Gardner is the better player?
Gardner for Phillips would be a steal for NY.
Not even close. It would be bad for NY. Especially for the price.
Take a look at his contract and he’s already declining plus too much drama
declining from great to good, is still good.
Declining to the point where kelley johnson has a better offensive season than you isn’t good though…
Too much drama among the Yankees?
That’s an oxymoron.
They both have stats that are good.
Brandon HR 18, RBI 103, AVG 261, OBP 310, SB 5, BB 39, WAR 1.6 will make about 11 mill next year,
Brett HR 8, RBI 52, AVG 273, OBP 344, SB 24, BB 52. WAR 4.2 will make about 2.8 mill next year.
LOL. The only good stat Phillips has is 18 homers. The RBI are from Choo and Votto batting in front of him and under 2 WAR isn’t considered an everyday player.
Wow turned down a Gold Glove 2nd baseman even though they have a surplus in OF and Gardner’s a free agent at the end of the year.
Could you imagine Brendan Ryan and Brandon Phillips up the middle, Defensively.
wouldn’t wanna think about them offensively though
Only Brendan Ryan is really poor offensively but that’s why you have Derek Jeter as well. Brandon Phillips numbers declined but in Yankees Stadium that could quickly change.
I don’t disagree that they had some value, I was just making a comment lol. It’s too bad they couldn’t merge Ryan and Jeter in one player, Sure Philips HR numbers could slightly increase but that doesn’t make him any more valuable, and it wouldn’t be by much since he’d be leaving a great hitter’s venue in its own right
it would be unethical to do that since that would probably be considered genetic engineering.
That would be awesome, especially if the rotation was mostly groundball pitchers.
As a Yankees fan, I’d rather keep Gardner and sign Infante at ~$8M per year than lose Gardner and pay Phillips $12.5M per year.
Plus, holding onto Gardner could prove to be quite valuable in the future. He would still start most of the time, and he becomes essential if (when) Beltran or Ellsbury goes down. Even if you want to trade him, better opportunities could come up later this winter or at the trading deadline.
This!
Am I the only one who remembers that the Yankees just got an elite CF in Ellsbury? Gardner is extremely expendable.
He was the second best player on the Yankees last year. The first one isn’t coming back. He plays all out on every play and when he gets on base, sets the tone for the whole team. He is not extremely expendable.
He’s the left fielder
so defensively they are both great, so that’s a wash yes?
from what I’ve seen people say, Gardner only has 1 more year remaining.
Gardner a lot cheaper, but at this point he is a 4th OF to the Yankees, when they only have Kelly Johnson at 2B.
How is Gardner a 4th OF? He’s their starting LF.
Ellsbury, Beltran, Soriano, Ichiro, Gardner, Wells. they have 6 OF/DH type. they all can’t play.
there are comparable 4th OF types to Gardner on multiple other teams.
Geeeeeez!
Gardner is an elite OF. He was elite in CF and will be only better in LF. Sori and Beltran will rotate in RF/DH.
you can stick almost anyone in LF, but not that many players can play 2B with great defense there.
I wouldn’t say Gardner’s elite, but he’s more than a 4th OF type and would start on most teams. LF isn’t the toughest position but Gardner does play great D and pairs nicely with Ellsbury in CF – might as well make it a strength if you can.
As said above it should be Gardner/Ellsbury as LF/CF regulars and Beltran/Soriano covering RF. There’s a huge drop-off from these 4 guys to Ichiro/Wells. All 6 can’t play but it’s still early in the offseason. If Gardner stays, I think one of Ichiro/Wells have to be goners if not both.
I meant to say defensively elite OF.
I’ve heard LF in Yankee Stadium is difficult to play as opposed to other LFs, though I’m not sure why or how.
I assume Wells is DFA’d in the coming days.
don’t assume this yet. i haven’t decided if i’m going to rotate those two in RF/DH. i’ll keep you posted.
if anyone on that roster is a 4th OF, it’d be ichiro.
Gardner is the Yankees starting LF, I don’t know where this 4-OF nonsense is coming from.
It’s pretty funny that people are acting like they can’t just cut wells and ichiro.
This. I don’t know why people are looking at him as the 4th guy all of a sudden. Gardner LF, Ellsbury CF, Beltran RF, Soriano DH (rotating). Gardner will get plenty of playing time.
If you trade Gardner away, you risk starting Ichiro regularly.
You’re right it’s more like a 6-OF logjam. Ellsbury, Gardner, Soriano, Ichiro, Beltran, and Wells.
Wells is basically on the edge of getting cut and Ichiro is not starter-worthy.
I thought they were going to move Vernon to the mound to be the #5 starter??
Don’t forget about KJ, He plays OF too!!
Exactly! LF-Gardner, CF Ellsbury, RF/DH Soriano and Beltran. Ichiro’s the 4th OF and Wells gets cut
As a Reds fan I can’t begin to describe how happy I am that this got turned down for 2 reasons, 1. If you get Phillips out of the cleanup spot I guarantee his avg and obp go up 2. Phillips carried the Reds offense for the first couple months hitting around .295, then he got hit by a pitch and rushed back causing his average to severely drop. The Reds just avoided a HUGE mistake.
THANK YOU! someone with actual first hand knowledge of the player. I love the way BP plays the game and cannot believe how many people think he’s washed up already. More things go into value than just the numbers.
Like Mark Trumbo.
first hand knowledge? isn’t it just reds fandom? or that it just happens to agree with your opinion? and more than the numbers…like his personality.
No, I mean someone who actually watches him play everyday and sees how he can affect a game. And, yes, plenty can be said for a player being the “heart and soul” of a team. Look at Jonny Gomes’ numbers from last year. nothing special… but you could make the argument that was very valuable because of everything else he brings to the table.
Everyone cooped up in NY would never even watch him or know what he brings to an organization.
Um, no.
Even if that were true they wouldn’t be missing out on much.
Just for perspective, both players’ stats are from 2013.
Player A: 118 games, .235/.305/.410/.715, .314 wOBA, 101 wRC+, 1.3 bWAR
Player B: 151 games, .261/.310/.396/.706, .307 wOBA, 91 wRC+, 1.6 bWAR
Player A is Kelly Johnson making $2.45 million in 2013
Player B is Brandon Phillips making $10 million in 2013
I get that he has great defense at 2B but Brandon Phillips is average. Is he really worth $50 million through 2017?
Also, Kelly Johnson is also a year younger and can play multiple positions. As a Yankee fan, I’d rather have Gardner and Kelly Johnson.
I’m not trying to argue the salary in regards to others. Since when is that even that big a factor in Yankee decision making? Point being, Yankees probably loose Gardner or risk overpaying him after this season, have a wealth of bodies in the outfield, and a weak infield. Should have been an easier deal, but i acknowledge BP asking for even more money adds to the debate.
But I’m not trying to argue whether BPs’ salary regarding others. I’m trying to show you that BP just isn’t as good as many are making him out to be and that the Yankees should not trade Gardner for him because he isn’t equal value to Gardner. I’m also saying that the Yankees can do better (already have, they signed Kelly Johnson) by just putting Kelly Johnson out there with the short porch in RF with regards to what BP would cost in a trade and to pay him if a trade were to happen.
“If you get Phillips out of the cleanup spot I guarantee his avg and obp go up ”
Career batting cleanup – ..279 AVG, .327 OBP
Career overall – .271 AVG, .320 OBP
If you meant remain around the same or go slightly down, then yeah.
I wonder how much of Phillips “decline” was due to batting where he wasn’t comfortable, or where he didn’t want to bat.
2nd- .240/.305/.365/.669
4th- .265/.312/.404/.716
he’s only 32 years old, I think he can still produce good offensively.
THIS
Finally someone that see’s this like I see it. I’m concerned with how this is going to play out though, BP’s going to feel like he’s the black sheep in Cincy and that everyone’s out to get him. Management should have quailed these rumors months ago.
The wrist injury is forgotten by most Yankees fans here and BP was top notch all the way up to July. His defense is nearly a nightly mention on ESPN and at 31 he’s still not finished. Look at Ichiro and the great Ozzie Smith to see that major declines don’t happen until the mid 30’s (36-38) at 12 mil per season he’s getting paid what he should.
Finally someone that see’s this like I see it. I’m concerned with how this is going to play out though, BP’s going to feel like he’s the black sheep in Cincy and that everyone’s out to get him. Management should have quailed these rumors months ago.
The wrist injury is forgotten by most Yankees fans here and BP was top notch all the way up to July. His defense is nearly a nightly mention on ES pn and at 31 he’s still not finished. Look at Ichiro and the great Ozzie Smith to see that major declines don’t happen until the mid 30’s (36-38) at 12 mil per season he’s getting paid what he should.
Yankees should just trade Ichiro and a mid-level prospect to the Giants for Scutaro
I don’t think the Giants would do that.
Yankees wish!!
Refresh the page and everybody calm down.
I think the Yankees need to go back to the drawing board and find a package that WILL land them Brandon Phillips and will also benefit Cincinnati . He’s so good.
Not if BP uses his no-trade clause.
those RBI’s sure arent as valuable as you thought, Harold Reynolds.
it would be a shame to trade Gardner now, rather than attempt to sign him to a new multi-year contract for the next several seasons.
Gardner looks to be about ripe and I expect this season to show a spike in his offensive production.
Brandon Phillips placed 13th in 2012 NL MVP.
But yeah, he’s on a steady decline and no longer has value.
13th is a joke.
Bringing up 13th place votes from 2 years ago does nothing to refute that point.
other than show that he is a year removed from at or near elite value?
That’s the point, though. You’re not saying he was 13th last year, you’re saying he’s a year removed from it.
2011: .300/.353/.457
2012: .281/.321/.429
2013: .261/.310/.396
Plus he seems to have lost his speed, and while HR power remained steady, there was a sharp decrease in other XBH. He also struck out the most times since 2007.
Seems like decline to me.
And Mike Trout doesn’t have any MVP’s, So, should I take that 13th Place finish seriously?
Volquez got rookie of the year votes after he was eligible. Jeter owns a gold glove. Ya phillips is in decline and even worse than that his best offense season appears to be an outlier.
This. Only one time has he been significantly above average at the plate
Ya i was actually pretty surprised by that.
just when i thought you couldn’t come up with a weaker argument, you go and prove me wrong. but yeah if you want to use that ridiculous stat, then let’s look at it. 2012 was two years ago. this year he didn’t crack the top 24. that’s a pretty steep decline.
You also forget to mention that Phillips had a slight wrist injury that sent him into a slump towards the later half of the season. I still think Phillips can offer .280 15-20hr 10sb and highlight reel defensive every night for the next 4-5 years.
Yes he’s past his prime but it’s night like he’s 35 with 4 years left, he’s only 31
Haters going to hate.
So there is hope that Dan Uggla will land in NY after all!!!!!
Props to the guy last week or so that called this possibility!
The real story this offseason, for me, was what Cashman would do to try and right the ship. The organization has a lot of work to do, from the ground up. They have one of the weakest minor league systems around, which obviously takes time to build. But so far, Cashman has not impressed me one bit with the moves he’s made.
It’s not exactly like the reds have a great system… I honestly don’t know why red fans think the mvp award stands for “most value phillips” but he isn’t that great.
No one was ever comparing the Reds farm to the Yankees farm.
No body mentioned Phillips as an MVP. He’s very capable of being an All-Star though. I put him in the likes of Ozzie Smith offensively and defensively.
Smart move by the Yankees.
I think the better option for everyone is for the Angels/Yankees to pair up. Gardner + decent prospect for Kendrick.
Kendrick gives will cost $20M over the next 2 years. He’s a consistent 3 WAR contributor so there’s a lot of excess value over the two years. He is a far better trade piece than Phillips.
Gardner gives you only one year of control. He has more upside but also far greater risk given his injury history. He’s less valuable than Kendrick.
The Yankees deal from a position of strength in moving an excess outfielder. Angels save a little money and put that towards signing Infante. They now don’t need to go after a DH type as they’ll have plenty of guys in the OF to rotate through the DH spot. Angels get a bonafide leadoff hitter. They could go Gardner, Trout, Pujols, Hamilton, and have a pretty decent top 4.
Of course, the Yankees could just sign Infante but they still have a glut of outfielders – several of whom are less than desirable (Wells/Suzuki, etc). And if they don’t move Gardner, signing Infante and keeping Gardner would cost more than Kendrick.
didn’t the angels just trade their version of gardner to the cardinals?
The Angels don’t need any more outfielders. They have Hamilton/Trout/Calhoun from left to right. If the Yankees were to get Kendrick, it would take prospects the Yanks don’t have.
Yeah I don’t think the Angels are in need of a speedy CF’er.
After trading Kendrick, why would the Angels want to sign Infante? They would just play Grant Green who excelled at the end of 2013.
After trading away Trumbo and Bourjos, I don’t see the Angels going after an OF. I think they may be done in the way of trades, unless a top notch pitcher is offered.
With Grant Green, they may try and trade Kendrick in July, but I think they give Green some playing time and test the waters before they unleash him as the starting 2B… this trade could be possible come July, but definitely not this winter.
You are correct if the Angels are comfortable with Calhoun playing 162 games and Green manning 2nd. I don’t see them being comfortable with that arrangement. I don’t see either as their first choice. Both carry tremendous risk.
The Angels are in the market for a DH so it’s easy enough to move Gardner to LF, Trout in CF, and rotate Hamilton/Calhoun at DH/RF.
Calhoun already proved he’s the starting RF. I don’t see any risk in him or Green.
Yankees could get Aybar or Kendrick in a 3 team deal instead. I said Phillips + 10 MM would be a decent return on Gardner a day or two ago, but renegotiating his deal he’s insane. His #’s aren’t on the uptick.
I doubt the Angels would move either unless it was for prospects the Yankees don’t have.
Thats why I said 3 team. Gardner for x y z prospects that head to the Halos.
Gardners the better player.
Brandon Phillips would get ate up alive in the New York media.
Cincinnati’s media has a reputation of being pretty nasty at times, I think he’d handle it just fine. In fact he’d probably thrive on the big lights.
Good for the Yankees. They don’t need to part with Gardner for someone like Phillips. With the sort of money NY has, just sign Infante and trade Gardner for pitching, if they feel the need to move him at all.
The Yankees most immediate need is pitching. They can get by with Johnson at 2B and Nunez at 3B if needed, and could sign Drew to play 3B for a spell before it is clear Jeters days at SS are over.
There is nobody in the current rotation that you feel good about. CC had his worst season ever and his velocity has dropped off, Kuroda completely lost it at the end of last year and may be showing his age. Nova was inconsistent, and everyone else is a # 4-5 guy. Maybe Pineda bounces back but it hard to count on that. Their bullpen is also weak which makes a shaky rotation even shakier since they will be extended more than last year.
The yankees had an average pitching last yr. Towards the end of the yr kuroda’s fip was still fine. CC lost 1 mph on his fastball.
How common is it for players to have their contracts reopen? i didn’t even know that was possible in a MLB contract.
I’d rather just play Johnson than trade anything to take on Phillips’ contract.
I don’t know why the Reds would want to trade Bailey, but then I’d be interested.
NYY forget Brandon phillips and his 4year/50MM contract. Sign infante to a 2year/20MM contract . If Infante doesnt accept because he want 3 years sign Mark Ellis and trade for a 3B like Aramis Ramires.
Mark Ellis GP126 AVG.270 HR6 RBI 48 OBP .323 WAR 3.0
Infante GP118 AVG.318 HR10 RBI 51 OBP .345 WAR 2.4
Infante is better but ellis can be a good plan B for NYY
I don’t think Infante deserves the money or years he’s asking for, I wouldn’t mind Ellis as a cheaper alternative.
I like the Aramis to NYY idea depending on price and if A-Rod’s out for the year. Would love him if they could have him as a part-time DH too but they need that spot already for so many players at this point.
Thank.
I dont think Aramis going be so hard to acquire aramis after he miss so many games last season. Aramis is owe 16MM this season so if the NYY can pickup 9MM and send a prospect is a good deal.
Infante wants 4 years.
keep Gardner and trade Ichiro plus a couple of mid-level prospects for him
How old is Ichiro???? that would never happen
These people realize Gardner is 30 right?
I am surprised to see that the Yankees turned this offer down. I know they like Gardner and all, but they could use a quality 2B.
Adding more money to Phillips’ $50M and 4 years, and taking into account his age, and head case issues, doesn’t make a lot of sense for the Yankees. They are already ancient and expensive in the infield.
I’m not a Red’s fan, but Phillips has never struck me as the type of player that represents their team in a positive way. But his defensive skills are very impressive.
You need to look at his twitter page or turn on 980 fm………His twitter page is filled with pictures of him with fans in various parts of town and nothing negative on the page. On 980 during game days he usually calls in and talks for a few minutes about various things. Phillips is IMO the only Red that is willing to engage the fans……..I think he genuinely loves the city of Cincy
You need to look at his twi Itter page or turn on 980 fm………His tw Itter page is filled with pictures of him with fans in various parts of town and nothing negative on the page. On 980 during game days he usually calls in and talks for a few minutes about various things. Phillips is IMO the only Red that is willing to engage the fans……..I think he genuinely loves the city of Cincy
thank you chet. Cincy is a great baseball town and kudos to BP for his fan appreciation. Just something about the way he conducts himself while on the field rubs me wrong.
Maybe he’s cocky or a little to loud but he’s also one of the only guys IMO that you can watch and know that he enjoys the game. Many of those trick moves are perfected during team practices, meaning he’s always trying, he’s always engaged in the sport. I don’t see too many other Reds players with the same energy.