3:00pm: MLB.com's Jordan Bastian tweets that Terry Francona called Masterson to tell him that he isn't going to be traded this offseason.
10:21am: The Indians have yet to engage Masterson in extension talks, but those could come as part of the upcoming arbitration negotiations, MLB.com's Jordan Bastian notes. Cleveland is prepared to go with a one-year deal if necessary, he says (Twitter links).
8:56am: There are no legs to the Yankees-Masterson trade talks, a source tells ESPN's Buster Olney. He adds that Cleveland isn't close to trading Masterson or any other player at this time (Twitter links).
7:47am: The Indians are said to be open to listening to offers on Justin Masterson, and the Yankees have emerged as a possible suitor, according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today. Nightengale reports that the Yankees would be interested in acquiring Masterson in a deal involving Brett Gardner. A third team would likely be required, since the Indians don't have a need Gardner (Twitter links).
Indians GM Chris Antonetti indicated yesterday that he'd like to keep Masterson in Cleveland long-term, but acknowledged that he'd be willing to consider offers on just about any player. The Yankees appear to have a similar stance on Gardner — a Tuesday report suggested the team would prefer to trade Ichiro Suzuki, but presumably the Yankees would have to consider moving Gardner if the price is right.
The Yankees aren't the only team reported to have a keen interest in landing Masterson. Joel Sherman of the New York Post said this morning that the Diamondbacks would "love" to find a way to acquire him from Cleveland.
Gardner…… and? Anybody? Anybody? Buehler? Buehler?
True, there aren’t any “now” prospects in their farm system – they’re all lower level. Since Cleveland can contend next year, I don’t see where the deal can be made without a third team. Same goes for the Diamondbacks since they just thinned out their system yesterday and probably want to keep some guys
With Trumbo in LF every day, making Prado the every day 3b, Matt Davidson could be a trade chip.
Well, considering Gardner has racked up more wins above replacement than Masterson over the last few years, the obvious counter-question is who else would Cleveland include? But it’s a moot point since the Indians don’t need an outfielder. A third team would have to be involved
How many years left does Masterson have on his contract before he becomes a FA? If it was 1, I would say it’s a fair swap (though Yanks would prob have to include a minor leaguer), However as mentioned, Indians don’t need OFers and I would have to assume a 3rd team would have to get involved assuming Gardner and Masterson are traded.
Masterson is a free agent after this season. But with that being said I don’t see how that is a fair deal. Masterson is a legitimate number 2/3 pitcher who can give u 200 innings with an era around 3.50 with ace potential at times. Gardner just seems similar to Peter Bourjos. Above average defensive outfielder who isn’t going to give u much offensively unless they get on base & hurt you with their speed. If the Tribe were to make a move like this then I would be questioning the direction of that club.
The Tribe has no use for or need of Brett Gardner. He would not be the compensation the Indians would be receiving for Masterson. The story defines a third team’s involvement. That team would be the recipient of Gardner. The return for Gardner would be what the Indians would receive along with whatever else is worked out.
But I still am missing something here. What could the Yankees possibly get for Gardner that would tempt the Indians into giving them Masterson? I just don’t see Gardner bringing back a solid piece. He is a 30 year old with one season left on his deal. He gives u defense & not a whole lot more. I’m not putting the guy down. I know he can be an asset to a club but not as much as a Justin Masterson.
“He gives u defense & not a whole lot more”
Fast speed and a good OBP. The only thing he doesn’t provide is power. His average is so so
We can argue all day long but we can agree to disagree. I don’t think Gardner is anything special. He could be an asset for a team but Justin Masterson has way more value in my opinion. It’s easier to find a Gardner than it is to find a Masterson.
I wouldn’t say Masterson has way more value because Masterson is not all that consistent. His ERA has alternated the last 4 years from the high 4’s to the low 3’s. Same goes for his WHIP which is near 1.50 and then goes to the 1.20’s. Reminds me of his former teammate in Josh Beckett. One year his WAR is above 4, the next year it’s below 1.
Though I would agree with you that if I had to pick 1 of the 2 in a given year, even with Masterson not being consistent, I would have to go with Masterson.
The Indians have zero need for a Gardner they will not trade Masterson unless they are going back a starter that could slide right into the rotation who is young and controllable like a Corbin, Walker, Cingrani type guy and they would rather that starter be a Lefty.
Nobody is getting Masterson for 1 player it will not happen they will wait and auction him off at the trade deadline to the highest bidder if it comes to it.
The Yankees have zero farm system and most of their top pitching prospects are damaged goods or still on the DL after Surgeries.
Never said they needed him. Already said that their OF is crowded. Try reading harder next time. FYI , the Yankees farm is ranked higher than the Indians
How many games does Masterson play in comparison to Gardner? Doesn’t Masterson pitch every 5th day? Gardner has been ranked by the Fielding Bible as elite, so above average is an understatement in terms of his defense.
He’s not on Masterson’s level in terms of value. Gardner is a dime a dozen outfielder these days.
lol no
Ok then what makes Gardner so stellar at his position? His career stats seem very average across the board. Not a standout by any stretch of the imagination.
Despite missing a full yr he ranks in the top 20 in of war. Ya dime in a dozen.
Ok then what makes Gardner so stellar at his position? His career stats seem very average across the board. Not a standout by any stretch of the imagination. I don’t bow down to WAR like some people do.
Ok then what makes Gardner so stellar at his position? His career stats seem very average across the board. Not a standout by any stretch of the imagination. I don’t bow down to WAR like some people do.
WAR the last 4 years
Gardner- 14.4
Masterson – 11.7
This includes a season (2012) in which Gardner only played 16 games. If you exclude that season, his WAR is 14.1 in 3 seasons, which is still obviously higher than 11.7 in 4 seasons
You really really are underestimating Gardner as do most non-Yankee fan.
With that said, the Tribe has no use for him.with their already full OF
Some people believe (right or wrong) that WAR overvalues speed and defense. Gardner is a prime candidate for those people who think he’s not as valuable as WAR states.
Good points. For the record, his OBP is 15th out of 107 OFers the last 4 years. As I said, his main weakness his power but it’s his only weakness. His batting average is about average.
Batting average? I won’t even go there. But I digress.
Think of it this way. An average pitcher is valued more than an average OF. Quality pitching is harder to get than a quality OF. A FOR starter is a lot more scarce a resource than an avg/slightly above avg OF. Again not a knock on Gardner but the #1-#2 pitcher is always worth more. (And this is before you factor in the value bump of an affordable FOR starter)
Except Gardner is a well above average OFer (minus the power as mentioned), not average or slightly above average. And if you look at Masterson’s numbers the last 4 years, they’ve alternated between poor year and very good year, so he’s not very consistent himself. As I mentioned to you or someone else, I would take Masterson over Gardner, but I wouldn’t say Masterson provides more value.
Silly question, but I assume FOR is Front Of Rotation?
“Except Gardner is a well above average OFer (minus the power as mentioned), not average or slightly above average.”
2011-2013:
Not even on the front page dude.
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=bat&#…
But lets think about this different. A lot of Gardner’s value comes from his defense so let’s compare him with a similar player. Michael Bourn.
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=bat&#…
Here are the 2010-2012 numbers at this point in free agency last year. Even if I agree to adjust Gardner’s 2012 WAR, because he was hurt, by replacing them with his WAR from his previous season he basically ties Bourn in totally production. If this were last year and Masterson had pitched the way he did this season, I doubt anyone would say that 1yr of Bourn for 1yr of Masterson was fair value.
All things equal, people will always value the 3.35 FIP and 200 IP over the good defensive CF with a solid bat. This is why, when both players hit FA next year one will make a lot more than the other.
While I agree with you Chairman, Masterson isn’t a FOR starter. His ERA+ for his career is 100, exactly league average. He’s a solid three though.
He’s a solid #3 in the AL Central (a weak division).
“While I agree with you Chairman, Masterson isn’t a FOR starter. His ERA+ for his career is 100, exactly league average. ”
5 pitchers x 30 teams = 150 pitchers.
Masterson’s 2013 ranking-
FIP- 28th
WAR- tied for 30th
Masterson’s 2010-2013 ranking-
FIP- 50th
WAR- 32nd
That would put him as one of the top #2 starters in the league or one of the worst #1. Either way he’s comfortably within the category of FOR* starters.
Front Of Rotation
Why don’t you check out his 2012 numbers. Now your response will be his 2011 numbers. And my response after that will be his 2010 numbers. Face it , Masterson is not consistent enough to be called a 1 or 2 starter. #3 at best
Last year, yes. The year before, he was pretty bad. The year before that, good, and the year before that one, bad. I’m sorry but inconsistent starters are not FOR. We can argue this all day.
How do you get away with saying that quality pitchers are more valuable than quality outfielders? On what value metric? Who gets paid more, quality outfielders, or quality pitchers?
Whether or not WAR overvalues speed and defense, it could also be argued that WAR thoroughly overvalues pitchers because in reality they only play once every five games.
Pitching WAR and positional player WAR are far different. If you don’t believe me look at the value of starting pitching on the FA market. Gardener is good but he’s not worth a FOR starter, either directly or indirectly.
“If you don’t believe me look at the value of starting pitching on the FA market”
Umm, why don’t you check the top 50 FA’s entering this offseason. The best starting pitcher (unless you include Tanaka) listed is Ervin Santana.
I can bet you if Kershaw was a free agent (which he will be next year unless the Dodgers give an extension which is likely too), he’d be getting Cano money, probably even more.
I agree with your points throughout this thread, but Kershaw would not get Cano money. Not near it. And if he did, it would be as much a function of his age as his prodigious skill, and that kind of youth does not factor into a discussion about the players listed here. Furthermore, comparing arguably the best pitcher in the bigs to Cano is an inadequate comparison too, since Cano is not arguably the best position player in the bigs, and not even really close unless you’re going by fantasy rankings. It would be more accurate to stack Kershaw’s contract negotiation up with a player like Trout’s (the first time Trout hits FA) or maybe Harper depending on how the next few years shake out. In the meantime, comparing Kershaw’s “speculative” value is not objectively helpful here.
I’m no comparing the value of Cano to the value of Kershaw. I’m just comparing the 2 because Cano was the top free agent this year, and should Kershaw go to free agency, he’ll be the top next year, which is why I said “Cano money”. Also, I believe Kershaw was offered a lifetime contract of $300 million by the Dodgers and rumors were also saying a big extension can happen soon.
I saw that too. Don’t buy it. I think it was a PR stunt by Excel Sports Management. And it worked. All of the media picked it up and ran with it. Make no mistake, if Kershaw had been offered $300MM, he would have accepted without batting an eyelash!
Haha, I think you’re right actually. I just can’t picture anyone turning down $300 mil
I agree with your points throughout this thread, but Kershaw would not get Cano money. Not near it. And if he did, it would be as much a function of his age as his prodigious skill, and that kind of youth does not factor into a discussion about the players listed here. Furthermore, comparing arguably the best pitcher in the bigs to Cano is an inadequate comparison too, since Cano is not arguably the best position player in the bigs, and not even really close unless you’re going by fantasy rankings. It would be more accurate to stack Kershaw’s contract negotiation up with a player like Trout’s (the first time Trout hits FA) or maybe Harper depending on how the next few years shake out. In the meantime, comparing Kershaw’s “speculative” value is not objectively helpful here.
Your right because pitchers only go out every 5th day….
That must be why pitchers get paid so much less than position players, right?
Those stats only mean something to teams in need like the Rangers or Phillies who are currently looking to upgrade their outfield a team like the Indians that already have 3 CF 2 of them considered to be 2 of the best defensive outfielders in all of baseball in Bourne and Stubbs when healthy and Brantley there is just not a need for Gardner at this time in Cleveland.
If gardner was so valuable a team like the yankees would not be dealing him JMO
If you read the original post, it said that the Indians OF is pretty much already full and that this would take a 3 team trade if it were to go through.
Cashman said he would listen to offers on Gardner and that is all.
He could give you 200 innings but what he;ll do in those 200 innings is anyone’s guess.
LOl uh huh. That must be why the Yankees are “guessing”.
If the yankees are interested in him that has nothing to do with his dazzling track record. More so to do with what his stuff is.
Exactly. So we’re finally in agreement on my previous post:
Masty 2013 > CC 2013.
As a precursor to a trade, it would benefit the Yankees to work out an extension. The Yankees might decide to wait until next off season so they wouldn’t have to give up any prospects.. but then they’d be inviting other teams to be compete for Masterson’s services.. teams like their friends from north of them that would have two rotation slots opening up..
Ehh, arguably too risky for the Yankees considering the outfield glut. Plus they might want to move beyond Gardner next offseason even if they did keep and start him. If a team wants him, they could just make the trade conditional on the receiving team working out an extension with Gardner. It’s been done before.
I like the idea, but unless that 3rd team becomes known…doesn’t seem likely. Masterson has had some health issues, but he was pretty good last year and he has a solid GB% which would play well in New YS. I have no idea what the Indians are looking for though, anyone know what their needs were coming into the offseason?
Edit: Nix health issues, that was my misunderstanding.
I believe they need pitching and a 3b.
Correct.
Mets get Cabrera and Gardner
Indians get Daniel Murphy(3B) and Dillon Gee and 2 Top Yankees Prospects
Yankees get Masterson
Please define :”2 TOP Yankee Prospects”, so Cleveland can laugh and say no.
Gary Sanchez (#40 overall prospect in the league I believe, maybe slightly higher or lower) and Slade Heathcott (not sure if he’s in the top 100). As a Yankee fan, I say No to that trade too
Who and who again?
If you don’t know who they are, try Google. It can help. Long story short on Sanchez, he’s the 2nd best Catching prospect in baseball to D’Arnaud (probably spelled wrong but I think you know who I mean)
Tribe doesn’t need a catcher…already have Yan Gomes. I obviously know who Sanchez is, we just have no need for him.
I never said you did. I was just responding to DCTribe on who the Yankees top 2 prospects are (though only 1 is in the top 100).
Well if you don’t know who gary sanchez chances are you don’t know anything at all about prospects….
I know who Sanchez is…Tribe has no need for him. Who and who means come up with more realistic needs for the Tribe.
One top 50 prospect should be enough for an inconsistent pitcher like masterson. Honestly if he was on the yankees there would be a debate a yr on whether he is more valuable in the pen.
No way, Masterson would easily make the Yankees rotation as #3 or #4.
I’m saying if his entire career was in NY that be the debate.
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts.
If you think the Yankees want Masty for the pen, I’d suggest re-examining your perspective….lol
Masty 2014 vs CC 2014…..no contest.
“If you think the Yankees want Masty for the pen” It’s amazing how i didn’t say that at all. And who knows which Masty will even show up.
Rafeal De Paula, Jose Campos, Jagielo, Clarkin, Hensley are all interesting at least. Plus Michael Pineda could probably be had. Yankees have a high risk-high reward looking system.
Why would Cleveland laugh when their farm system is ranked behind the Yankees (16th to 23rd)
Where did you get that?
That’s a ranking of near term value baseball america did a few weeks ago. Scale of value, more than a ranking sytem. But ya the indians don’t have a great system.
Baseball America, Just google “mlb farm system rankings baseball america”. The article is titled “The Future Is Now”.
The argument isn’t about “farm system rankings”, which, as we all know, are completely subjective jobs for guys that can’t get a baseball clubhouse beat. It’s about CLE trading their best starter, after losing 40% of their rotation already. It’s gonna take a BOATLOAD of talent to pry Masty loose.
They aren’t trading him nor should they if they want to remain competitive.
No it wouldn’t take a boatload of talent to acquire a pitcher with 1 year left on his contract who is not very consistent and has yet to produce back to back solid seasons. Check his numbers the past 4 years, they’ve alternated between sub par year and good year. Even years are his sub par years and 2014 is next. I’m not saying he’ll have a sub par year though, but my point is, he’s not as great as you make him out to be.
Yes it would. Because he’s Cleveland’s best starter they would ask much more than his real value. No one wants to replace their #1 starter unless…
“Yes it would. Because he’s Cleveland’s best starter they would ask much
more than his real value. No one wants to replace their #1 starter
unless…”
You’re right, they should ask for a lot. Problem is, no team will give up a lot and that’s why no trade will happen. He may be Cleveland’s best starter but that doesn’t mean he’s one of the game’s best overall pitchers. Much like how the Mariners best hitter before they got Cano, whoever that was, doesn’t mean that player was one of the game’s best hitters.
Totally agree. Just shows no trade could happen. I think Cleveland would ask too much compared to what any team would offer. He’ll end up signing long-term or walk as a FA.
SO farm rankings and baseball prospect rankings are subjective yet you somehow feel it isn’t subjected to say that the yankees don’t have the prospects for an inconsistent 3 starter?
No, I’m saying Yankee’s “prospects” in no way replace the Indian’s #1 starter for 2014, after they lost Kaz and probably Jimenez as well. The Indians have no interest in anybody’s “prospects” until and unless they’ve solved their rotation needs for 2014. And a AA catcher doesn’t accomplish that. Nor does a CF, when they already have FIVE MLB outfielders.
You can make Masterson “inconsistent” all you want–If the Yankees believed that, after eating his nasty slider least season, then I’d say the entire premise of the “rumour” is wasted pixels.
+1
I think the days of the Indians trading their stars for 3 A ball players are over.
I think Arizonia could be the best fit for both teams Arizonia has Cahill / Corbin and Miley they could deal and they have 2 near ready guys Davidson who i really like and would offer great protection if Chisenhall does not make it and he can also play first and they have a near ready closer in Barrett who flew through the system.
I personally like Corbin so maybe a Corbin, Davidson and Barrett for masterson and maybe we have to kick in one of out infield prospects not named Lindor in the deal.
Indians get their long term controllable starter slides right into the rotation they get there future closer and 3rd basebase option to Chisenhall or another 1st base option.
Now your looking at meaningless stats from last season prior to the draft prior to the yankees losing several of their top pitching prospects for the season with injuries.
Ken Rosenthal just said this morning when talking about the Masterson New York rumors that the yankees had one of the worst farm systems right now in baseball and most of that was due to some untimely injuries to top pitching prospects and he felt there was no possibility a deal could happen here and everybody at the table on the show agreed.
I never provided stats, I provided rankings done by Baseball America, which were done after the World Series of this year.
I think that’s about the best deal you could possibly hope for. Losing 2 guys with one year left, seems reasonable.
Masterson having health issues is untrue.. He strained his oblique around the end of August, and missed three starts. He’s averaged 31 starts each year for the last four years. The Indians lost Kazmir and could lose Ubaldo. They need replacements that are near ML ready.
I must be mistaken or thinking of someone else. I admit that I’m not familiar with Masterson completely, but I thought he had injury troubles for a few seasons. My mistake :)! As for a 3rd team…I have no idea lol. I mean almost every team needs starting pitching and I doubt anyone would be willing to get involved in this trade unless they can get something good in return. I’m thinking:
Masterson & Prospect -> Yankees
Cabrera & Gardner -> Mystery Team X
MLB-Ready Pitcher with Control & Prospect -> Indians
That’s just my crazy mind working, so I could be WAY off base there. My thought is that there should be a team with SS need but has pitching to spare.
NP.. The deal as you’ve posed, with an “s” following the “r” for the Indians would be the only change..otherwise, it would be how a deal could/would be structured.
How about this:
Masterson + Prospect (Low) > Yankees
Cabrera + Gardner > Reds
Bailey + Prospects (High) > Indians
I’m seriously trying to find this third team, it’s actually kind of fun. I wish I knew more about other teams players and farm systems.
If Indians are in need of a 3B, maybe Giants get involved and Pablo Sandoval is in it too (trade won’t happen but that’s why we are doing it all for fun)
Not Bailey he is a free agent at the end of this year
Cingani, Yorman Rodriguez, Jose Campos to the Indians
I would think a couple options would be The Rangers, Phillies and Mariners.
The Reds deal could be expanded to include Brandon Phillips also going to the Yankees with Masterson but then I would think we would be looking at a 10-12 player blockbuster trade.
Gardner would be a really good add for some team but he’s going into his walk year so I’m sure New York will be a little underwhelmed on what they get offered for him.
Masterson also is in a walk year.
But I would rather keep the pitcher in his walk year than the outfielder. The tribe should be able to get a way better offer than the Yankees could give.
Oh I agree, which is why I origianlly said the Yankees in all liklihood, if it was a 2 team deal, would probably include a prospect.
Though this trade makes no sense for the Trbie, which is why Nightengale even mentioned it probably would have to include a 3rd team
Gardner to Reds, Phillips to Yankees, Masterson to Yankees, Indians get top prospects from Yankees
Nevermind
Gardner
Do the Yankees even have prospects?
Outside of Gary Sanchez, no top prospects
Forgetting about Mason Williams
Not in top 100 anymore.
Mason williams probably fell out of the top 100, he might rebound but evaluators will be scared of a guy they feel isn’t trying.
Mason has not shown any power at all that has yet to develop.
He is looking like is upside is slappy with a arm in the outfield with maybe 20 SB potential at this point. Not that valuable right now specially when you look to you CF these days to at least be a 10 homer 30 SB guy.and hit 285 to say the least it is not looking good for Mason the indians currently have 2 better ones in Tyler NaQuin and Levon Washington who are blowing away Mason Williams at the same basic levels and they are the same age as Williams.
In the indians organization Mason Williams would be rated behind both these guys in our top 20.IMO
Gary Sanchez is still a legitimate blue chip prospect I would say. Stocks have fallen of Tyler Austin, Slade Heathcott and Mason Williams.
Not many that would interest the Indians Campos would be the only guy the indians I see and he is a mid to lower level guy.
what prospects ? 🙂
Thats ridiculous on its face. The Yankees have NO prospects anybody wants.
lol…so the yankees are going to completely fleece two teams at once?
Pass would never happen. If the indians do not receive back a stater that is controllable and can slide right into the rotation plus a high prospect or 2 mid level prospects Masterson will not be traded.
if Reds are involved Cingrani would have to be the main piece JMO
the Yanks best trading partner would have a need for a catcher I would think since we have McCann…We have a catching surplus with Romine and CervePEDli
Romine and Cervelli have very little value to anyone. If a team can be patient, then you try and get Gary Sanchez from the Yankees
People have asked for murphy.
Any Indians fans know what they would actually need as a 3rd team involvement.
Could see Masterson to Yankees, Gardner to a team that needs a CF, Indians receive a player from the 3rd team.
Not likely to happen but would love Masterson since he is a ground ball pitcher. Would slot in well in New York. Him and Nova are both ground balls pitchers, would give a pretty nice rotation with
Sabathia
Masterson
Kuroda
Nova
Pineda/Phelps.Nuno battle for 5th spot in camp, with loser to minors/bullpen
Any deal looks unlikely but maybe the 3rd team has something the Indians would want based on their needs.
and Warren..he will be in the mix too I think 🙂
Yeah forgot about Warren as well.
Gardner was so good at cf that Cashman decided to upgrade and sign Ellsbury.
Cashman knows that Gardner is going to get a ton of money next year in a very weak free agent market for OFs. Ellsbury brings similar defense and more offense.
Ellsbury is a better overall player because of his offensive abilities, but Gardner is not chopped liver in CF.
If Gardner goes into Free Agency next season teams will be bidding on his services to start for them.
Cashman signed Ellsbury because we needed more impact in the lineup and Gardner is in his walk year.
dont do it yankees. only if you intend on signing choo, then ok… gardner is more valuable than masterson
To the few people that think Cleveland could patentally recieve a 3rd basemen in the trade… The Indians have already lost two of their top three starters from last year. It wil probably take a HUGE overpay to get the Indians to trade him. They actually need him this year. That said, if a team were too give up two plus MLB ready starting pitcher that the Indians can slot into the back of their rotation, they might be willing to do it.
That’s what I am saying. Why on earth would the Tribe even consider a deal involving Gardner or whoever the Yanks get for Gardner. It doesn’t make any sense at all. The people defending Gardner have to be Yankee fans. He is a nice player. But not good enough to land a top of the rotation pitcher. It’s exactly what happened with the Angels for Bourjos. They dangled him thinking they could get a stud pitcher. Instead they got a relief pitcher & a lower level prospect.
In the Indians defence, part of their job is to listen on any trade proposals. However, another part of their job is to smart. Unless they can get a arm MLB ready, with tremendous upside, their isnt much of a reason to deal him. (or two)
Side note: his stats are simmilar to Matt Garza over the last three years. Garza has slightly better numbers, but Masterson has almost a whole nother season on him, with time missed due to injury. So the package will be stronger then that to get Garza
Dodgers wanting to move Kemp would seem like a nice fit for a third team. Indians get Kemp as full-time DH to avoid injury, Dodgers get Gardner, Yanks get Masty. Indians could look to move Bourn, the Mets were interested, to offset whatever part of Kemp’s contract Dodgers aren’t willing to eat.
So……. Dodgers trade an outfielder and Buku $ for…. an outfielder?
No chance. You’ll never see the Indians trade for a “full time DH” ever again. Travis Hafner, anybody?
The Indians wont move Masty for anything less than a controllable 2-3-4 starter AND a right handed bat that could play every day/young starter that is MLB-ready.
Agreed. We don’t need another Pronk.
You do realize how good hafner was for you right?
Oh yes. The first 4 years he was an Indian, he was arguably the best hitter in baseball. The last 5 years, however, he was an injured DH albatross. For roughly 55M. So, um….NO THANKS to a fulltime DH that can’t play the field. We GOT that Tshirt.
That’s way to much to ask for Masterson.
SO basically a R.A dickey type package for one year of a 3 pitcher.
The reason the Dodgers are shopping Kemp is because they have too many outfielders, so I doubt they would want another outfielder for him.
I get why the Yankees are interested in Justin Masterson, but as a Yankees writer (and a Brett Gardner fan)…the Yankees aren’t going to be able to pull off a deal with Gardner & Masterson. Brett Gardner is not going to get you a #1 or #2 starter and that’s what Justin Masterson is. Also, the Indians are going to need Masterson and if I were the GM, I would consider locking up Masterson to a long-time deal. And what if the off chance (a very off chance) that the Indians DO say yes…what else do the Yankees have to offer besides Gardner? The farm system is depleted and the Yankees are constantly just plugging in holes, which isn’t going to help in the long run. I’m sorry, but why the Indians would ever CONSIDER moving Justin Masterson is beyond me. I’ve gotten a look at him when he pitched against the Yankees and he’s dominated 9 out of 10 times. You don’t trade a pitcher that could beat the New York Yankees almost every time. That would be like the Yankees going to Detroit and asking for Justin Verlander. I really don’t see this happening.
“Yankees are constantly just plugging in holes, which isn’t going to help in the long run” – I don’t get your logic, every team has needs or holes to fill.
Instead of relying on the farm system, the Yankees are plugging in holes by finding a quick fix in the market. That’s how depleted the farm system is.
The Yankees have a farm system?
Which is acutally ranked ahead of the Indians (16th overall for Yankees, 23rd overall Indians)
Yankees: New York hopes this class of catching prospects develops more
effectively than the last one, highlighted by Jesus Montero and Austin
Romine. The system’s only other prospects above the Gulf Coast League
are 3B Eric Jagielo (6 NYP) and RHP Rafael De Paula (17 SAL).
Indians: As is the case with many of the bottom-third organizations in this
ranking, the cream of the crop is impressive, but the depth is lacking.
For Cleveland, C Francisco Mejia (7 AZL) and RHP Cody Anderson (20 CAR)
also ranked on league lists.
Source – Baseball America
If you ask Yankees fans, then yes.
If you ask baseball america how much depth they have the answer is also yes. Even after a bad year they don’t have the worst system and teams don’t trade sytems for players anyway which is why the whitesox can always make moves.
True, it was more of a joke than anything. They do have more promising prospects than they have had in recent years so kudos to them.
Yes and it’s better than the Indians as I said
Well it’ll never grow if they keep buying players instead of building.
And you’re absolutely right. Never argued that. Very fortunate to have a good draft last year.
The farm system is only one option to fill the holes. In the end it doesn’t matter where the players come from. Last winter the Red Sox need outfielders so they signed Shane Victorino and Johnny Gomes. They also signed Mike Nappoli for 1st base and Drew for SS on 1 year deals and ended up winning the WS.
I am not saying you are wrong. It would be nice to have ML ready prospects to trade to fill your needs but that is only an option.
That’s exactly what boston did last yr, and no one considered there system depleted.
As a Tribe fan, I will be very disappointed if we don’t lock up Masterson long term. If there was ever a pitcher to lock up, Masterson is the guy. Francona loves him, and he’s a very classy guy. Would love to see him at the front of our rotation for years to come.
Locking him up long term would be a great idea for the Tribe but can they afford to pay a #1 salary? The average #1 guy makes $20 million per year.
Well to put it in perspective, he’s a #1 to the Indians but on a team like the Red Sox or Yankees, he’d be a #3. It depends which team he goes to.
I doubt they would be paying him #1 money. The numbers being bandied about ( add $2 for a cup of coffee) are 5 yrs/$70ishM. And he’d be 33 after that, and able to go get another 3-4-5 year deal somewhere.
Why would he settle for 70/5 in Cleveland? On the open market he would easily get $20 million per year.
Cole Hamels is not the #1 is Philly and he is making $22 million per year.
OK, I’m confused. One one hand, there are 3-4 posters here hell bent on painting Masty as an “inconsistent #3” at best, and the Indians should be grateful to get some Yankee farm system offal for him. On the other, he’d “easily get $20M/year”.
There’s just no PLEEEEEEZING you all.
“#1 or #2 starter and that’s what Justin Masterson is” This isn’t masterson’s value even if he got close to that one year. Boston essentially got 2 yrs of peavey for one top 100. The yankees can do the same with one top 50. The most at bats any yankee has vs masterson is 27 and that’s ichiro, so i highly doubt that plays a role.
Up til last year, the yankees have had the same offensive strategy for years. Gardner’s been one of the biggest parts of this. They wear pitchers down. They run starter’s pitching count up, forcing the bullpen to come in earlier then wanted. Gardy leads the team every years in pitches per at bat, a very underrated value. Guy’s really good, i hope the yanks don’t trade him, seems to be a perfect fit in what they look like they’re going for.
Andrew Marchand now just said the Yankees have interest in Johan. Ughhh.
I’m interested in any player on a minor league deal.
Chances are he would never see the big leagues.
Chances are he would never see the big leagues.
good this is one of the first times in a number of years that the tribe has had all the pieces to a decent team. Decent pitching; Masterson, kazmir,Jimenez and many others. and the bats adding swisher and boourn last year long with the veteran influence of Giambi made a big influence in that locker room not to mention tito. i think it’s time that yankees got over themselves and let somebody else be successful for once they have 28 world series titles.
Um… Kazmir is a member of the A’s and Jimenez is leaving as a FA.
i think that it might be better though thinking about it if tomlin can get healthy enough long enough he could be a real star. salazaar has some huge promise as evident in that wildcard game against tampa. while it may not be the greatest of ideas to make it all the way to the end of the season and make the playoffs as a wildcard team to only play a 1 game playoff shouldn’t it be at least a best of 3?
and if anyone needs to be traded it’s carlos santana, Gomes is the better catcher and has a better arm. he’s more accurate and has a better bat. and getting back to the yankees they just signed beltran, and ellsbury so i don’t want to hear any complaining
The point I was making is that Masterson, Kazmir, and Jimenez will not pitch for the same team next year.
masterson isn’t going anywhere IMO. he’s quickly becomming the cliff lee of old when he was in CLE. but ya know like with anything regarding cleveland sports teams as i have been a fan my entire 20 year life you get ready for and even expect dissapointment. like the year the tribe made it to ALCS and then traded all that talent away the following offseason.
I’ll say this again, your facts are wrong. Scott Kazmir has already signed with the Athletics and the Tribe can’t pay what Ubaldo is asking. I also never said Masterson should/would be traded.
Why would you trade Santana? He was one of the best hitters on the team and he played more at 1b and DH down the stretch, so trading him does nothing to help you
Because we need starting pitching, and we can fill the hole left by Santana without losing much overall.
granted he did do better down the stretch yes and wasn’t nearly as bad as Perez but when Gomes us the better all around player and you have an all-star 1B in Swisher that you know actually plays the position. then there’s no need to play him. maybe having santana as a backup. and yea DH is a good thing but everyday catcher his fielding isn’t good enough. i went to plenty of games down at progressive field this year and was far more impressed with Gomes then Santana.
I’m surprised the MLB won’t just force the Indians to trade masterson to the Yankees
The Giants need to get involved with this one grabbing Gardner maybe package Pill, Blanco, Casilla to Cleveland.
As an M’s fan, I hope they throw their hat in as a 3rd team. Gardner would be a good upgrade in the outfield. With his bat and glove.
It would be really funny if he was traded tomorrow or something.