Robinson Cano signing with the Mariners would be "dumb" for both player and team, argues FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal. The Mariners need more than just one more player to become a contender, and "store-bought teams often prove to be disasters," as recent iterations of the Blue Jays and Marlins suggest. The Yankees, meanwhile, won't go past $170MM or so, even though they just agreed to sign Jacoby Ellsbury for $153MM. For Cano, signing with Seattle would be an "inexplicable money grab." It wouldn't make sense for Cano, the Mariners, or the Yankees if Cano went west. Speaking of which, here are more notes from the West divisions.
- Bronson Arroyo and Bartolo Colon currently aren't high priorities for the Angels, Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register writes. Masahiro Tanaka, Matt Garza and Scott Feldman remain possibilities (Twitter links). Earlier this week, a report indicated that the Angels were interested in Arroyo.
- After dealing Dexter Fowler to the Astros and working out a two-year deal with first baseman Justin Morneau, the Rockies aren't through making moves, assistant GM Bill Geivett tells Patrick Saunders of the Denver Post. "I think we are still in the marker for a starting pitcher, another bat, and as I’ve said before, our bullpen is not closed," says Geivett, who also says that history will not be remembered as a "salary dump."
- Pitcher Daniel Hudson is "optimistic" he'll re-sign with the Diamondbacks, reports Steve Gilbert of MLB.com. Arizona non-tendered him on Monday after he missed most of the last two seasons due to injury. "I don't really want to go anywhere else," Hudson says. "Obviously if something doesn't work out then we'll have to figure something else out, but as long as we're cordial and we're talking and everything, I really want to make sure I stay working out with those guys."
The Angels could very well put it together. Their offense is good and a season of a better bullpen and no Blanton actually puts them in competition differentialwise.
It puts them in competition by default, just like dropping Kazmir in 2011. Cutting dead weight, of course, is another way of improving a roster.
Those of you who are saying the Mariners aren’t done yet and they have plenty of money to spend aren’t coming off as credible criticizing Ken Rosenthal. There’s no guarantee you’re going to get everybody on your wish list, nor is it any guarantee that if you DO get everybody on your wish list (2012 Marlins) that it’s going to amount to anything.
Business wise it makes sense, especially when it comes to selling some tickets. But 25 games in the standings is a lot to make up from one season to the next. Impossible? Absolutely not. Look at the 2013 Red Sox. But if you do get Cano and are unable to improve your pitching or add to the lineup around him, you wasted $25 million for at least one season, likely more. It’s a massive risk for a team that just lost 91 games and has no fan enthusiasm. You go out and spend $230 million on 1 player and are unable to fill in the team around him the fans will stop coming once the novelty wears off. On Cano’s side, in no way, shape, or form is getting $230 million of guaranteed money an “inexplicable moneygrab.” I’d take that, no explanation needed.
“Do you have any explanation for taking $230 million?”
“YES!!! IT WAS $230 MILLION DOLLARS!!!”
I think you make good points and I’ll accept maybe I’m being overly optimistic from an M’s standpoint (to be clear, I have no rooting interest for them or in that division, I’m a Braves and Tigers fan). But it boils down to your “massive risk” quote: this team needs to take a massive risk. It’s been bad for some time, and taking a big risk amid such an extended streak of poorness seems more logical than a team like, say, the Dodgers taking such a risk.
I do agree with you that there’s no guarantee they get anyone else or that they pan out. But why not try if your Seattle? Why not take the risk? And as I said earlier and as I think is being understated, this deal would make Seattle a more attractive FA landing spot. I forgot who it was, but I know one of the major FAs of this winter turned down a Seattle offer because they saw it as an undesirable franchise to sign with. Cano changes all that- now you have Felix and Cano- and a team clearly willing to spend with aspirations of winning with pieces already in long-term place.
That’s the counter argument. The M’s have nothing to lose. Best case scenario, Cano helps that team win. Worst case scenario, nothing changes. You’re just $230 million poorer. It’s worth a shot from the M’s perspective, I totally get that. But I’m not going to dismiss Ken Rosenthal’s point about signing him and certainly not because “that’s not all the M’s are going to do.” I’m sure the M’s will try and do everything they can to put pieces in place around Cano.
I get that, that’s the ‘as could be’ part. I’m a little worried that their pitching isn’t where it needs to be, but with Andrus, Profar and their other middle infielding trade chips, they should be able to get an Ace if they want to.
The Rangers need to stop and evaluate their middle IF depth before dealing anymore of them. If they want Price, they probably have to deal Moreland since the Rays are looking for a 1B. They already have an ace; it’s probably wiser for them to get pitching depth.
Really? Really? You just favorably compared one player at $25 million to 7 members of a championship team that cost a collective $72 million and you think you made your point? REALLY?!?!?
Point is Boston went out and signed all those guys. So, in essence, yeah, the Sox of ’13 were “store-bought” to a point. Not sure why you’re freaking out on him. Also not sure why you have to compare it to Cano signing. If the M’s get him, we get him. They could sign for players after that, as they’ll have another $25-30MM available.
Kinda think this is media bias for the Yankees. Seems like they’re all rooting for a Yankee super team for some reason.
This makes sense for Cano because 50M is a lot of $$. Gives M’s star power, will help attract future FAs, and maybe vault them in to contending- plus they have the space to do this- they won’t be hamstrung as media people are suggesting. As someone mentioned, ballooning MLB TV deals and overall ballooning revenue means this deal won’t be so comparatively staggering in a few years.
The only thing Cano going 10 yrs 250 with the M’s disadvantages is the AL West slightly and the Yankees. Again, since the McCann and Ellsbury deals I’m starting to sense big media names are starting to root for a Yankees super team. So I’m not surprised people like Ken are trying to influence deal and push Cano to New York.
Fact of the matter is the Yankees and Red Sox have the largest fan base, and it is a national base as opposed to geographically limited. World Series ratings are highest when one of those 2 teams make the WS, and when they play each other as equals (unlike the last 2 years), their ratings on national TV are enormous.
That’s one reason I believe MLB gave Arod such a stuff penalty, in a bid to help the Yankees regain some of their competitiveness. As the largest revenue sharer MLB does not want to see the Yankees revenues fall and have less to share.
Actually…only 7 of those titles have come in the past 48 years, since the onset of the draft. Over the same time frame, the Cards and A’s have each won 4 titles. And I don’t think they “bought” the 1996 or 1998 championships…the next two, yes, and certainly 2009. But the Yankees have missed more often than they’ve hit by buying teams. Bought teams bring playoff appearances, but they rarely buy championships.
They bought Babe Ruth didn’t they. That’s 4 more titles and 7 total appearances. Then add in Roger Maris in the 60s and Reggie, Nettles and Catfish Hunter in the 70s.
Why exactly would adding the best free agent out there be dumb for a team with a good farm system and a very good rotation? And it’s not dumb for cano he already has a ring, he will get paid and be the face of a franchise.
I think it’s actually a good move for the m’s. They get a legit super star middle of the order bat in his prime(yes they will over pay for the later years). They still have money to get one more bat(no way they stop with cano if they get him) they have a farm system that will allow them to make a trade for a bat or pitcher(price?)
And look at the division they are in. It’s pretty winnable.
I was just about to say that somewhere in Angel-land, uttering the phrase “make a big move” could possibly be punished by loss of job…
At minimum, the penalty should see them struck about the face with an inflatable Josh Hamilton SGA bat.
not sure why the Angels are being counted out. If they pitch a replacement level pitcher and fix up their bullpen their run differential has them in competition.
The only reason I count them out is because of what they look like in the next 5 years. Sure next year they can contend if Pujols is healthy and Hamilton returns to form, but because of their weak farm system and aging/declining players, they dont look like division leaders in the future.
Pitching is their problem, and they have already made several moves to address that. Pujols and Hamilton are not the problem. There’s no way to predict what a team will be in 5 years. Many of the numerous pitchers the Angels drafted this year could easily be making their big league debuts in 5 years. So it could easily be a much different farm system. And their only commitment in 5 years is Pujols, so as of right now they could easily go on a great spending spree 5 years from now and be fine with or without a lot of good prospects coming up.
Rosenthal’s comments do seem to be eastern bias. The Mariners have a lot of quality pitching, and building a middle of the order could put them places. Losing Cano surely damages the Yankees in many ways, most notably making the signing of Ellsbury look desperate. If Cano doesn’t sign, the Yankees are going to scramble to field a team as good as 2013, because pitching looks like a serious problem right now.
You read my mind
Yes. Admitted Mets fan though.
That pretty much nails it. Rosenthal has often taken the view that a strong Yankee team is good for baseball. With 30 franchises, parity is more important than any team.
You think he might need to get rid of his Cano jersey?
Traded for whole taking on his entire contract pretty much a “buy”
While* sorry phone corrected.
So any player that gets traded is “bought” by that team?
Why do the Yankees have a monopoly on the best players?
Because Ken said so.
Well, playing in the NLCS isn’t exactly a lost season, though.
Prior to the draft prospects were signed on the open market. So their great farm systems that usually had a depth of players to the point that many very good players never got a true chance to play because they were blocked by even greater ones was due to the Yankees buying their championships. The only time the Yankees were completely cut off from buying was in the era of the draft that was before free agency. The Yankees were horrible those years.
The 2009 Yankees won the World Series because A-Rod finally had a good postseason; Girardi switched to a 3 man rotation vs the Angels; and Matsui went crazy during the WS. NY really didnt have to spend all that money. And there were many more factors than money that got them that title. Good thing for them the Angels lethal offense was suddenly stopped dead in their tracks after sweeping the Red Sox. The Yankees and Angels both were terrible as a whole in the clutch in that ALCS. But those 3 factors I mentioned earlier are the main reasons the 2009 Yankees were World Champs. It wasn’t just because the team was “store bought.”
the jays were not store bought , they made trades
The point is more or less that they didn’t grow their own vegetables in the back yard if you catch my drift.
Rosenthal just has to get over the fact that Cano won’t be in New York. It is not like Cano is the only move Seattle has in its bag. With Robinson, Seattle can trade some surplus infielders for defensive outfielders, for example.
Boo Hoo that the Yankees plead poverty. Cano to Seattle sounds fine.
I think Cano is going to Seattle. New York tried to leverage with gimmicks like Kelly Johnson and Robinson leveraged back. Bridges were burned because New York tried to be cute.
How about the Cleveland Indians in the 90’s Thome, Albert Belle, Manny, and a host of other All Star caliber players.
The Braves with Smoltz, Glavine, Chipper, Justice
The Expos with Pedro, Larry Walker, Moises Alou, and years before that they developed Dawson, Carter, and Raines
The Big Red Machine Reds with Bench, Rose, Concepicon, Perez
If you look at the majority of teams histories they are littered with great players they have developed.
Expos. What if you added Randy Johnson to your list?
Does Rosenthal really think that would be the end of the rebuild the Mariners are trying to do. This signing would be similar to the Nationals signing Werth and building around him, only bigger. The M’s also have good young players who if they play to realized potential are ready. I usually like KR but he is swinging and missing here.
Maybe twice as expensive as Werth’s contract. Werth’s contract is actually looking good now compared to the money being shelled out in today’s market. He is also coming off a very good year.
Jeter, Pettitte, and Posada turned out to be great draft picks. Where the Yankees really cleaned up was jumping into the international market better than some teams back in the ’90s or so. Subtract Bernie Williams along with Rivera and Cano and imagine the Yankees record over the last 20 years.
Other teams are finally learning about international players, so the market advantage there is narrowing. If international signings ever count against the luxury cap, competitive balance becomes more possible in baseball.
So you consider only players who get drafted in the US are homegrown? Despite all these IFA signing at around 17 years old, some not even playing professional ball in their countries (which includes Rivera and Bernie)
I think Rosenthal should have his own intelligence put in question. The Mariners have the right to better there team just as much as any other team without media constantly talking down on them. The years of only East coast teams should be the only teams aloud to succeed mentality is wearing thin with fan bases every where other than the east. Repeated alienating other regions will push Mlb even farther behind major sports leagues tell it becomes erralavent.
Ken is usually good but I don’t understand how spending big on one player is becoming a “store bought team.” Adding him, with some of the solid pieces around him in Ackley, Seager, Smoak and Montero (maybe?). Couple that with Walker, Iwakuma and Felix. All of those pieces are under control.
They could also conceivably add a bat to their outfield as well as Cano, it’s not like their payroll is gigantic. Plus they’re getting a new TV deal.
You mentioned 3 guys that are barely talent, at least not consistently. The talent will be Seager, Miller, Franklin, Peterson and Zunino
Don’t be forgetting Taijuan Walker and to a lesser extent James Paxton
The thing that irks me is that he acts like Cano would be the first player ever to sign with the team that offers him the most money. Did you know that A-Rod signed that first massive contract because the Rangers gave him the best chance to win over that 116 win Mariner team that he was leaving.
In all honesty I think that a solid case could be made that the Mariners are in better shape then the Yankees are today. They are loaded with players not only on the wrong side of 30, but on the wrong side of 35, and their minor league system isn’t sending them any Jeter’s, Rivera’s, Posada’s, or Williams’s to help.
Not to mention the Mariners have a boatload of prospects about ready to start in the majors and even if only a third of them work out, Seattle will have a pretty good team around Cano in a year or two.
Actually, dropping Blanton and Hanson from their rotation for good in 2013 proved how different a team they’d be without them. With that move, the team plowed through the final 2 months of the season until that final 4 gamer vs the Rangers. It kind of proved that acquiring those 2 were pointless moves to begin with, and that all they really needed was: a) Vargas, b) to finally give Richards a starting job, c) and just sign one solid back of the rotation starter. The last 2 months of ’13, the Angels resembled the aggressive first to third teams of 2000-2009. They don’t need to make a big move. They just need to solidify the back end of their rotation and keep Blanton as far away from a starting role as possible. Kinda like Kazmir in 2011: dropping him actually added wins in ’11. Even league average would be a major upgrade over Blanton.
Honestly in order to get price, walker would have to be included in the trade. Just have to remember is two years of price worth six years of walker? It’s hard to tell right now.
You’re missing the point. The Yankees don’t win the WS in 09 if they don’t sign Burnett, Sabathia, Tex and Swisher. Period.
Are you sure Tulo is not just a product of Coors Field?
His power numbers would drop. There is a lot more to Tulo than HR’s… Right???
I don’t know, if the money were equal I think I’d take the Mariners offer over the Yankees. They have a lot of players making a lot of money that aren’t getting any younger. Their system hasn’t been producing talent while the Red Sox and Rays seem to have contributions every year from young players. The Mariners might have a easier path to the playoffs, and a more open DH slot to give him days off from the field.
Washington state also has no state income tax.
I can see the Mariners be a really good sleeper team this upcoming season if they can sign Cano. It would take some strides forward from some of their younger players like Ackley, Zunino, Smoak and Miller but they already have one of the best 1-2 punches and some nearly ready young pitching in the minors. Still think they could use another outfielder though.
Signing Cano may make it easier to sign other players.
They could use 3 outfielders honestly. Almonte/Saunders/Peguero is a poor collection of outfielders. Signing Cano (Moving Ackley to CF), trading for Matt Kemp (playing RF), and platooning Saunders/Almonte in LF is a route they ought to consider.
There’s still a lot of growth to be had by some of their position players (namely Zunino/Miller/Franklin/Ackley/Smoak), so a lot of things are going to have to go right for Seattle to join the fray of competitive AL West teams.
say it one more time!
is it though? it’s no guarantee, but it seems to increase your chances if you compare the teams that don’t spend to the number that do. how often do we really see bottom of the barrel teams win a WS? you don’t see big spenders win every year, but when do the small markets teams win ever?
You could, but honestly he wasn’t Randy Johnson till the Mariners got a hold of him. He only had 10 starts with the Expos. IF they had kept him and didn’t break up that team I think they would have won at least one Championship.
One day I’ll understand why Baseball allows Loria to stay a owner when all he’s really done is kill one franchise, and alienate another one’s fan base to the point that it might as well be.
Honestly, the M’s need Cano more than the Yankees. It changes the franchise and culture for the M’s, while the Yankees have a lot of money to go out and make those little moves that win championships. They can add a pitcher, outfielder, and Omar Infante to fill 2B. Let’s not forget they just added McCann and Ellisbury (who will make a difference provided he can play more than 100 games). Plus if Texeira can come back healthy, then they’ve added more production to their line up than Cano alone could provide.
Very true. Only thing I disagree with is the addition of another OFer, though it would not surprise me if they do.
They could trade Gardner and have Ichiro as their 4th OF’er coming off the bench to pinch run or as a defensive replacement. Ichiro had a 522 OPS in the 2nd half and is pretty much finished as a starting OF’er
This was my guess too
I imagine if the Yankees don’t get Cano they sign Choo or Beltran or Cruz and Drew, and top it off with Rodney, Colon and perhaps Tanaka (if available).. Heck, they could sign all of them and Cano if they wanted.
Do the Red Sox win the WS without signing Shane Victorino, Mike Napoli, Koji, Salty and all the other players that they signed? (the money isn’t the same amount as what the Yankees spent, but the point still stands)
If that’s your argument then you’re only proving the invalidity of your initial argument that store bought teams don’t win.
I never said store bought teams don’t win.
There sort of is a cap on international signings now. The Yankees also weren’t the first or only team hitting that market hard during that period.
Ok…. here it is. ..
2 weeks ago. ..I said the exact same thing to my best friend. ..
arroyo and colon. …I can’t imagine a better couple pitchers better suited to help angels
Wow Rosenthal really doesn’t like the Mariners. Does he not realize that the Mariners intend to sign more players and add talent through trades? It’s not like Cano would be their only move this offseason. Someone should remind Rosenthal that baseball exists outside of New York. Cano has already won a WS in NY. Maybe Cano thinks the Yankees are an aging team without the money to pay him. The Mariners have good young players and need a couple of offensive stars to bring them to the next level.
his exact words:
“store-bought teams often prove to be disasters,”
seems like he acknowledged it pretty clearly.
The Mariners don’t need to store buy their team. They need to compliment what they have by getting 2 or 3 hitters and 1 starter.
just like how the Blue Jays only needed to get Jose Reyes, Mark Buerhle, Josh Johnson, and RAdickey. they got their starter/hitters and it failed. Same thing with the marlins. Same thing with the angels. Trying to change a teams dynamics overnight has proven to be a recipe for failure, thats the point rosenthal was making. Whether you choose to agree with it or not isn’t the question.
Just like the Red Sox roster turnover from 2012 to 2013?
Eh?? The Red Sox were under achievers in 2012 and had plenty of stars already on the roster. They signed several mid tier FAs that all did well and their stars bounced back.
How is that even remotely analogous to the Ms situation? They’ve got Felix and Iwakuma and prospects. If they’re going to make serious improvements they need to start with signing the biggest FA on the market and then add 5 or 6 other pieces.
“trying to change a teams dynamics overnight has proven to be a recipe for failure”.
How did Boston not change their teams dynamics? There was managerial/upper management/player turnover for the Red Sox from 2012-2013.
Their whole organization had a structural shakeup, how is that not changing the teams dynamics?
I wouldn’t comment on anyone’s intelligence until you do a thorough proof reading of what you just wrote.
Sorry. Tend to babble when annoyed. Point is it one thing to say you dont like a deal but another to say its dumb for a team other than media persons favorite to attempt to try to better itself is insulting and unprofessional. Thinking like this is what made mlb miles behind the NFL as Americans past time. I love both sports but feel Mlb is letting itself be ruined by media. All I hear and read is negativity or bias thinking if you dont root for chosen teams.
Smoak may not have lived up to his hype, but he’s going to hit you 20 homers. With the recent downward trend of homers in the MLB, 20 is the new 30. I’d consider that talent.
And to be fair, I did put a maybe next to Montero. He’s an enigma. Had a very strong season in 2012, but then did miserably in 2013. This is a pivotal year for him.
Realistically, Seattle should go for somebody in the outfield who can actually catch the ball even if they don’t sign Cano. The Mariners were last in outfield UZR. One hint. The Royals were first in outfield UZR and just added even more with Aoki.
Seattle has infielders stacked up (even without Cano) and are resorting to playing fellows like Ackley in the outfield. Why not call Kansas City and ask for a decent defensive outfielder? One more hint. The Royals really need help at second base (and possibly, third).
Seattle has ways to help their team after Cano. Their surplus infielders have some value, without even the worry of dealing their pitching prospects.
Rosenthal is all tied up in a knot. The Mariners can improve and Cano is just a start.
didn’t you hear? he’s the only one that knows about that secret clause that doesn’t allow the M’s to make any other moves if they sign Cano.
EVEN BETTER YET…a 9 or 10 year deal for Cano guarantees that “if” Cano makes it to the Hall of Fame it will be in a Mariners Uniform…OUCH NY!
If he signs a 10 year deal with Seattle why would Yankee fans care what cap he wore IF he made the hall of fame?
Like I mentioned above though…if Cano signs a 9 or 10 year deal with Seattle and “if” he makes it to the HOF it will be in a Mariners uniform. I’m sure Rosenthal will have issues if that ever happens too. Right?
Not necessarily. If his best years were with the Yankees and if his worse years were with the Mariners (and chances are they will be especially going into the mid to late 30’s), he’d go in as a Yankee for sure..He’s already been in the majors for 9 years, so let’s say he retires after this next contract (and say it’s a 9 year deal), his career is basically already half over. Anyway, we sit and lay back.
I assume you’re a Mariner fan, and if so, and if you sign him, enjoy. Only time you’ll complain about him is a lack of hustle, especially on ground balls no matter how hard or weak they are hit.
Let me understand Mr. Rosenthal. It would be an “inexplicable money grab” for the Mariners to sign Robinson Cano, but it was not an “inexplicable money grab” for the Yankees to sign Ellsbury? So it’s OK if the team that ranked 10th in runs scored to sign a free agent from the team that ranked #1, but it is not OK for the team that ranked 12lth in runs scored to sign a free agent from the team that ranked 10th? Or is this an ethnocentric argument….. it’s OK for a NYC team to sign a native of Washington, but it’s not OK for Seattle team to sign a Dominican? This is dumb, for both player & team and yet it was not dumb for a player to leave a world championship team for a team wracked with scandal and pension aged players? Sorry. I’m not buying the media template for this storyline.
you have to imagine that this is going to be a big blow to the M’s if he doesn’t sign with that kind of offer.
Is Cano going to leave 50 mil on the table?
i don’t know. he won’t text me back.
Other then April + an August stretch the 2012 Angels were not a “disaster”. Just unlucky since no one saw Oakland taking the next step so soon.
The Mariners with Cano are a better team than the Yankees without him.
Rosenthal’s being outpaced by high school kids and he’s becoming petulant, like all declining sportswriters do.
Rosenthal is not being outpaced by high school kids. Look at the trends the last few weeks. Rosenthal is giving all of his big scoops to high school kids, namely Chris Cotillo. Which is a really kind thing for him to be doing. Really shows what a class act he is. The only stuff he’s really been putting forth last few weeks is analysis, including this story. So just because you don’t agree with the guy, don’t bash him so hard. He’s actually been a real upstanding pro and is someone to be admired.
Really tired of these sports writers who can’t get over players not signing with east-coast teams. I’m not rooting for the Ms to sign Cano, but when you hear these guys gasp that a player would even consider leaving the great pinstripes for some other team, it’s just too much.
Cano might look at how Arod has been treated in the latter years of his contract when his performance slacked off due to injury and saw his own future in NY.
LOL, Alex Rodriguez treatment in New York has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with the three ringed circus the guy is.
Its always something with him.
Did the Yankees make him roid, did they make him lie, did they make him storm out of his PED hearings.
The circus is all Alex Rodriguez’s making, even the Yankees are tired of the guy and hopes he is suspended and just goes away.
Cano’s future in NY could be similar to Posada, Jeter, Pettite and Rivera. Each them but Mo saw performance decline at the end but the fans were always behind them and they have an incredible legacy that will be remembered in NY for generations.
No, the Sox approached the Yankees to sell Ruth. There`s a pretty big difference. And at that stage, the Yankees were a franchise with little history or reputation.
I wouldn’t say the RS were “big” spenders in ’13, only that they spent shrewdly after a big salary dump, They reinvested after not getting the expected return on investment from their assets. The new assets performed just well enough to enable them to win.
Some may disagree, but I feel the ARod contract was worth it for what he did in that 2009 playoffs.
I mean, at the end of the day, it’s not my money. haha
But it was a conglomeration of talent they already had and the few pieces they added, what the article suggests is that teams like the Marlins, blue jays, and potentially the M’s didn’t have that base to build around before spending.
Not for nothing, and feel free to argue that 2009 was a store bought title, but remind me again which of the other 26 championships were store bought? By your standard anyone who’s ever signed a big free agent and then won a World Series bought the World Series.
Uh, no. Walker helps the team both now and in the future. Trading Walker makes no sense when there are still good pitchers on the market.
Walker looks like he’ll be a good pitcher, but David Price is a proven lefty ace.
For what it’s worth, since 2012 Kershaw’s xFIP is 3.06 and Price’s is 3.19 .
I don’t understand why you could look at a guy being paid $230 million and say “it wouldn’t make sense” for him to take it.
Might not make sense for the Mariners, but why shouldn’t Cano take the money?
According to everyone here, trading our young pitching talent for an older expensive pitcher with one foot out the door is the way to go.
Can I get an Amen?!
Sorry but it’s foolish to just sleep on the Angels. There is no clear favorite in the AL West.
Pujols, Wilson, Greinke, and Hamilton were the right moves at the time. They saw a window to get the best players available at the time and they took a shot. Its too easy to just say those were bad moves in hindsight. The Angels needed to make a statement and they did. And if CJ hadn’t developed his bone spur in the second half of 2012; if Haren hadn’t developed knee and hip problems; and if Santana had not had such a bad year with the HR ball, it’s probably a sure shot for the postseason for them in 2012, and none of it would matter. Pitching was the problem. Same in 2013. If a big move can be made, especially on the pitching side, the Angels should make it. But they don’t have to. The last 2 months of 2013 showed us that the Angels just need to solidify the back end of the rotation and add some effective depth to their bullpen.
They’ve won seven titles since free agency began. Of those, the case can be made for three, maybe four, being “bought,” and even then the teams were built around a core of mostly homegrown talent or players they acquired through trades.
But sure, they bought “a lot” of them.
The bigger puzzle is why hasn’t Cano put pen to paper as yet.
No team is going to give him a better offer than that.
Yankees have made it known they aren’t giving him 10 years. If the Mariners are willing to what’s his delay. 🙂
Grab it and run dude, you will not see that deal from anyone else.
Is he worth Miguel Cabrera/Mike Trout money, the Mariners think so
Rosenthal doesnt like the Mariners. He has been against them for the last few off seasons. Always dissing there potential moves
Rosenthal’s bedtime is before games are played on the left coast so he has no clue about the youth ready to play in Seattle. There is no way Cano comes to Seattle unless Zduriencik convinces him he has more money to spend and is willing to do so. Mr. Zduruiencik said he would like 3 bats, an SP and a closer. If the M’s spend the money/prospects to make that plan happen to add that major league level of talent to young kids like Felix (yes, he’s still a kid), Seager, Miller, Zunino et al, Seattle will be legit.
Cano doesn’t sign in Seattle unless Zduriencik convinces him that he’s going to have a chance to win immediately.
Take the big money, Cano. That’s always the best choice. The Yankees aren’t showing you respect and you will be very happy in Anaheim…er I mean Seattle.
How can they say they will only go to $170 million on Cano when they just gave $153 to Ells? This blows my mind.
Probably because there’s a difference between what a team says publicly and what their actual best offer ends up being. It wouldn’t surprise me to see them go 8 years and close to $200M.
Can you explain how that works? I personally feel that you can get Price without Walker. Just my opinion. Tampa could use help at 1B and Smoak OPSd .839 as a lefty. There’s value there. A manager just needs to keep Smoak out of the RHd batters box. Paxton, Smoak and some more. The Rays can’t expect everyone to overpay for pitching. They can only trade with Drayton Moore so many times.
Freeing up 1B would let the M’s go after Napoli. Napoli can move to DH when Choi or Pederson is ready in the next year or two. The M’s need some RH pop.
Cano, Napoli and Morales wouldn’t be so bad. I may pass on Kemp right now unless the cost was low. Really low. He won’t start the season on the active roster.
The chess match between Boras & Van Wagnen has been interesting.
Boras had 2 rooks to counter Van Wagnen’s queen and… uh.. king too I guess.
Mark Feinsand: Source: Talks between Robinson Cano and Mariners broke off after
Jay Z’s excessive demands. Looks like Cano will NOT sign w/ Seattle.
I really don’t think Cano has any intention of signing with Seattle. The moment he does that, “the Cano brand” is gone. All he is doing is trying to get the Yankees to budge, which isn’t gonna happen. It’s time for Jay-Z to stop making a mockery out of himself and take the 7yrs from the Yankees, b/c even he clearly cannot “make it anywhere”. At the end of the day, team Boras always wins.
“I really don’t think Cano has any intention of signing with Seattle.”….I disagree, I don’t think he would fly to see them Twice in 1 day if he had no intention. If Scott Boras was still his agent, I can bet he would have signed already with Seattle
This is all part of the show. If Seattle is just a stalking horse for the Cano side, this wasn’t played very well. The $252M figure is a symbolic number, not one driven by business considerations. It could have been bridged by some incentives or a difficult but attainable vesting option for a tenth year. Grandstanding sometime can lead one down the wrong path
Mark Feinsand: Source: Talks between Robinson Cano and Mariners broke off after
Jay Z’s excessive demands. Looks like Cano will NOT sign w/ Seattle.
I think one smart thing to do if you are going to “buy” a team, is buy healthy players. Ellsbury hasn’t played many full seasons. Handley has been injured in LA. Reyes can’t stay on the field in Toronto.
If the M’s are going to buy guys, buying a guy like Cano who plays 160 games every year isn’t a bad starting point.
But signing Cano “wouldn’t make sense for the Yankees”: remember that baseball moves have to make sense for the Yankees in order to happen. (Actually, maybe he’s right…. See: Bizarrely long suspension of A-Rod). So the Mariners couldn’t sign Cano because that would be confusing to people who have tidy narratives of how the game works.
But signing Cano “wouldn’t make sense for the Yankees”: remember that baseball moves have to make sense for the Yankees in order to happen. (Actually, maybe he’s right…. See: Bizarrely long suspension of A-Rod). So the Mariners couldn’t sign Cano because that would be confusing to people who have tidy narratives of how the game works.
hahahahaha we can dream.
For the 100th time, how many teams could KEEP their star players once they developed? If Jeter had been a Padre he would have been gone after 6 years. No other team in baseball could have held on to Jeter, Rivera, and Posada (and others) for their whole careers.
” If Jeter had been a Padre he would have been gone after 6 years.”
And you know this how exactly? They kept Gwynn a Padre his whole career. They kept Hoffman a Padre for over 15 years. Who’s to say, if they had Jeter, that they wouldn’t have kept him?
“No other team in baseball could have held on to Jeter, Rivera, and Posada (and others) for their whole careers.”
Show me info to back up this claim.
In the late 70’s and early 80’s, the Twins traded Rod Carew and Lyman Bostock because they couldn’t keep them. They also lost Dave Goltz and Bill Campbell, their two best pitchers, to free agency because they could not afford them. That was their 4 best players. I know that was a long time ago but that just soured me on free agency at an early age. In some ways, free agency reflects life. You have your super rich, rich, middle class, and poor teams. I have come to accept it and wish I was a fan of a “rich” team.
Only reason I’m a fan of the Yankees is because I’m from NY and grew up here. Grandfather was one of the only ones in my family who was a baseball fan and we went to a ton of games together. If I didn’t live in NY or grew up elsewhere not in the Tri-State area here, I’d probably hate the Yankees just as much as anybody.
Oh and Orsulakfan you might like this (written back in 2011 though):
“The most profitable team was the Padres, which had an operating income of $37 million in 2010. The team’s attendance surged by 200,000 at Petco Park as the Padres finished just two games behind the San Francisco Giantsin the National League West. The Padres managed to post a 90-72 record despite a payroll of just $38 million, which was the lowest in baseball. The Padres also benefited from a revenue-sharing check of
more than $30 million.”
I disagree with Rosenthal. Cano has the right to make as much money as he can, and only he knows where the balance between dollars/comfort/contention lie. It’s all fine and good for us to tell players to take a home town discount, but we aren’t the ones getting the smaller checks. There are very, very few players in this day and age who are so inextricably bound to one team that both the player and the team have to work it out. In the end, it’s a business for both. The Red Sox have demonstrated that brilliantly in recent years-sentiment only goes so far.
It’s hard to argue with the optics of the 2013 season, but to lump Toronto in with the Marlins as a store bought team is slightly ridiculous. Adding Reyes, Bonifacio, Izturis, Johnson, Dickey and Burhle, all in trade for prospects, is not the same as buying free agents. And even if that wasn’t the case, the Jays core was firmly in place by the end of the 2012 season. The trade additions were intended to solidify the team as contenders, and by all accounts (including Vegas odds makers) the Jays were one of the favoured teams last year. Injuries can beset any team. A healthy 2014 should bare that out.
Cano and Jay Z are “playing” the Mariners against the Yankees. He has no intention of signing with anyone but the Yanks. He’s not worth $200M, let alone $300M.
If it’s all about the $ for Cano, then Jay-Z is not very smart.
Dombrowski bringing Pudge to Detroit was the beginning of the end of 19 years of failure and frustration. The weren’t one player away, in fact, they were one of the worst teams in history.