4:05pm: ESPN Dallas' Richard Durrett reports that Choo will earn $14MM in 2014 and 2015, $20MM annually from 2016-18 and $21MM in 2019 and 2020 (Twitter link).
3:15pm: With an outstanding rotation locked up for the foreseeable future, the Rangers have focused on re-shaping their offense this winter, and Shin-Soo Choo is the next piece of the puzzle. The Rangers have officially announced the signing of Choo to a seven-year contract that is reportedly worth $130MM. Reportedly, $5MM of the first year's salary will be shifted to 2016-17, creating more flexibility in 2014. The 31-year-old Scott Boras client does not have an opt-out in his contract but did receive a limited no-trade clause.
As MLBTR's Tim Dierkes wrote in his profile of Choo, who ranked third on Dierkes's list of the top fifty free agents, the South Korean on-base machine hit the open market at an optimal time. Having never seen his OBP drop below a .373 mark, Choo reached another level last year with a .285/.423/.462 line (over 712 plate appearances) in his first and only season with the Reds. (Of course, as Dierkes explained, Choo's biggest weakness — his struggles against left-handed pitching — could force him into a platoon role in the later years of his deal.) Choo also knocked twenty home runs in 2013 for the third time in his career. Batting atop the lineup in Cincinnati, Choo also swiped over twenty bags for the fourth time, though he was also tagged out eleven times in the process.
Though Choo played in center last year for the Reds, the expectation is that he will man a corner position in Texas. If the Rangers indeed intend to go with Leonys Martin up the middle, it would seem likely that the club would be out of the mix for Nelson Cruz. (Alex Rios is already penciled into one corner spot.) Though it certainly doesn't preclude anything, Choo will wear No. 17 in Texas (as he did in Cincinnati) — the same number that Cruz donned while with the Rangers. The Rangers said at today's press conference today that the current plan is for Choo to serve as their new leadoff hitter.
Texas GM Jon Daniels has not been shy in adding lengthy and substantial contracts to his club's books of late. He added dollars and years through trades for Rios and Prince Fielder (offset only in part by the departure of Ian Kinsler in that deal). And Daniels has done the same via extension, with Martin Perez (four years, $12.5MM), Elvis Andrus (eight years, $120MM), and Matt Harrison (five years, $55MM) all getting new deals in the last year. Add it all up, and the Rangers have added nearly $400MM in future obligations in the 2013 calendar year. That would seem likely to take the club out of the mix for Masahiro Tanaka (in the event that he is posted).
At seven years and $130MM, Choo will receive an average annual value of just over $18.5MM. His deal slots in $23MM shy of that inked by Jacoby Ellsbury with the Yankees over the same length of time, but comes with a $40MM larger guarantee than that achieved by Hunter Pence in the five-year deal he reached with the Giants just before hitting the open market.
The Rangers were willing to go to seven years and a big sum of money, says Passan, in part due to the weak set of hitters available via free agency next year. Of course, new candidates could emerge; one year ago, it would have seemed quite unlikely that Choo would command this kind of payday. The Yankees may have been willing to reach the $140MM level in a seven-year pact with Choo, tweets Joel Sherman of the New York Post. But the lack of state income tax in Texas boosted the value of the Rangers' offer, and Choo apparently also preferred to join Texas.
Since Choo turned down a qualifying offer from the Reds, his former club will receive a compensatory pick. Texas, meanwhile, stands to lose its first-round draft choice, though it could regain a choice in the sandwich round if Cruz signs elsewhere.
Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reported that an agreement had been reached (via Twitter). Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News first reported (via Twitter) that the deal was expected to be worth $130MM. Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reported that $5MM of Choo's 2014 salary was shifted to 2016-17 (via Twitter), and Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports tweeted that Choo's contract does not contain an opt-out but has a limited no-trade clause.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Oh no, I hate long term contracts. Teams got to have flexibility
Its about time….
any idea where this puts the rangers payroll wise?
Edited – 20 million for Choo.
They’re up to 133 million now with 3 empty spots.
According to ESPN Texas was at 113 million before Choo.
I’d assume he gets somewhere around 15-20 million, and they have 3 empty roster spots.
They’ll likely have around 130-135 million committed.
I think Choo is a nice player but i’m not okay with giving a platoon player 7 years.
True, but he has a cannon, gets on base, and has some pop. Put him in leadoff and you’re good to go.
One of the highest OBPs in baseball, 20 bombs, 100+ runs I think. He’s not a platoon player.
He has horrible splits. Dreadful, which would suggest that he needs to platooned.
If he needed to be platooned, he would have been the last 3 years when he has been one of the toughest guys to get on base. This guy would have been a Billy Beane machine if Oakland had the money to spend.
I watched him play in Cincinnati against the Pirates. If he comes up against a lefty, it’s almost an automatic out. He kills (KILLS!) righties, but he is bad against lefties. He should be platooned, ideally, although most teams don’t have the depth to do it.
Yes, he has good numbers and he’s an on base machine. That doesn’t mean that he’s good against lefties though.
Got on base against lefties at a .350 clip last year, thats likely better than any RH guy you would platoon him with.
And this should end this silly debate, .347 to be exact
Yeah, and a .612 OPS against lefties last year with a .265 slg % should end the debate too.
That’s Clint Barmes territory
Who cares? A guy that dominates righties and gets on base plenty against lefties works just fine for me.
But obp is much more valuable than slg. And Barnes is career .529 ops vs lefties.
plus he gets 76 games in the AL West. Cant think of many talented LHP in the AL West and his career numbers vs LHP are better than the .200 BA he put up last year while his OBP has stayed consistent.
First of all, no, .347 isn’t an insurmountable OBP for the other half of a platoon match up. And secondly, I would gladly sacrifice a few OBP points to get someone who could at least MAKE CONTACT when he’s not up there getting walked. OBP is a great stat. It is not, however, the only stat you need to consult in evaluating matchups.
Adam Wainwright had a higher overall SLG% last year than Choo did against lefties.
Excellent point. BUT….did you happen to look at how many times he got hit by a pitch last year? 26!! (yes Twenty Six) and 13 of those 26 were against LHP.
If we take away HBP out of the OBP calculation, it drops down to .307 against LHP. Not Terrible, but still not good.
His On Base Percentage vs. Lefties last year was .349 – perhaps you should alter your “automatic out” rhetoric.
That OBP would have been second on the Rangers without including his stats vs RHP, which averaged him out to a .423 OBP – He is NOT a platoon player.
His contract dictates that he will not be platooned but his performance against lefties indicate otherwise. I already listed that he is a very useful player for many reasons. I like him as a player.
His splits are more dramatic than most, but I think people are making too much of this. Most lefties have serious platoon splits. CarGo, for example, drops to a 101 wRC+ against lefties (roughly a league average hitter). Josh Hamilton is at 102 for his career. Cano is at 110. Choo’s a ways beneath those guys with a 92 wRC+ against lefties for his career. But that’s not dreadful. It’s just a little below average. It’s not like he’s Garrett Jones where you’re basically forced to bring in a pinch hitter any time a lefty steps in.
And that’s why Garrett Jones is on a 2yr/$7.75 mil deal.
For $130 million, you should be getting more than a guy who absolutely cannot put the bat on the ball against lefties.
You’re paying attention to the wrong part of that comparison. His numbers are a lot closer to Robinson Cano’s than they are to Garrett Jones’s. A .243/.340/.341 line is not demonstrative of someone who “absolutely cannot put the bat on the ball against lefties.”
That’s exactly what it is demonstrative of. I chose my phrasing deliberately: he did not HIT lefties last year. He walked against them.
And it was significantly pronounced last year. His .265 SLG% and .050 ISO% are PUTRID. Chone Figgins’ career ISO is almost DOUBLE that. The funny thing is that his contact rate against lefties went up over his career marks last year quite a bit (27.7% career K-rate, 19.9% last year), and he STILL couldn’t hit them. 8 XBH, 0HR. At what point does a player with this limited hitting ability, especially as they age and the problem is magnified over 7 years, just become exploited by LHPs who realize they can just go back to throwing him strikes?
What difference does it make…he should be batting one or two and getting on base. Set him down his 10 games a year against lefties. As long as he’s playing at a level like he has so far, you’ll be happy. He’s a very good player.
“I chose my phrasing deliberately: he did not HIT lefties last year”
That isn’t how you phrased it though, so how deliberate could it be? He “put the bat on the ball” against lefties last year at a roughly league average rate.
Anyway, your concern is definitely legitimate if the one-year splits demonstrate an actual trend. Given the inherent variability of one-year split statistics, that’s not a safe assumption though. The research I’ve seen shows that platoon splits tend not to widen much over time, on average:
baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5017
Either way, it’s a huge contract for a guy at his age with his injury history, his uneven performance, and yes, his platoon splits. But if he can muster something like his career average against lefties, he should be a viable everyday player for a few years yet, which was the point initially being argued.
Now the Angels need to trade for Price, he will nullify both Fielder and Choo along the other lefty pitchers -Wilson- Scaggs- Santiago make Di Poto’s moves look even better with the 3 way trade. The Angels can throw all leftys at them.
Yeah but how are those pitchers gonna fare against Rios and Beltre? Not to mention Fielder actually handles LHP better than he does RHP
you took a mere sample size of the 2013 regular season to state that fielder actually handles LHP better than RHP. that’s not a good move. from 2006 to 2012 he handled rhp much better. over his career fielder is .267/.347/.457 agaisnt LHP and .295/.408/.562 against RHP. oh and don’t forget his laughable postseason performances against LHPs. this only suggests that 2013 was a “fluke” and nothing else.
No I actually looked at his career numbers vs LH starters because the comment I replied to was referring to the left handed starters of the Angels. Fielder’s career numbers vs left handed starters are better than his career numbers vs RH starters and his postseason numbers last season were vs all pitchers. He has struggled in the postseason his whole career, nobody is arguing that.
His career numbers vs LH relievers are awful no doubt, but Skaggs and Santiago were not brought in to pitch out of the pen
No I actually looked at his career numbers vs LH starters because the comment I replied to was referring to the left handed starters of the Angels. Fielder’s career numbers vs left handed starters are better than his career numbers vs RH starters and his postseason numbers last season were vs all pitchers. He has struggled in the postseason his whole career, nobody is arguing that.
His career numbers vs LH relievers are awful no doubt, but Skaggs and Santiago were not brought in to pitch out of the pen
Also those numbers vs LHP have been solid for the past 3 seasons which clearly debunks that 2013 was a fluke. Its called an adjustment made by a hitter
Also those numbers vs LHP have been solid for the past 3 seasons which clearly debunks that 2013 was a fluke. Its called an adjustment made by a hitter
Also those numbers vs LHP have been solid for the past 3 seasons which clearly debunks that 2013 was a fluke. Its called an adjustment made by a hitter
Even with his bad avg against lhp choo still has a higher ops against lefties than Ian did overall so its still an upgrade at the leadoff spot no matter how you look at it.
He is if you look at his numbers against lefties.
.612 OPS against lefties, and a 1.011 against righties.
I think the problem here is that you don’t understand the meaning of the word “platoon” player, because those splits suggest EXACTLY that. He could still draw some walks against the lefties, but oddly enough he didn’t hit a single home run (of his 21) last year against a LHP.
Career, it’s a little less pronounced, but still awful. .680 vs. .932.
OPS is a little deceptive on this one though, because every point of OBP is worth more than a point of SLG. Normally this doesn’t skew the numbers much, but with Choo you’re looking at a career line against lefties of .243/.340/.341. His power completely disappears, but that’s still a good OBP, and overall translates to a 92 wRC+. Below average, but not terrible.
I’m aware of that (as I’ve said above), but 92 is more than just “below average,” (though technically also that) and in the context of this discussion (about the contract he just received), is significantly below what you expect for such money.
OBP is way, way too hard of a fall back stat for people that just saw Moneyball as a movie in 2011. He can draw walks off of lefties, and that’s fine. It’s indisputably important to get on base. But when you’re COMPLETELY neutralized as a HITTER, you lose significant value in key situations. He would have negative value relative to most right handed platoon “replacement players” (WARPP, I suppose you could call it?). As the hitting inability becomes more pronounced (above, you’ll note that his LHP SLG% was lower last year than Adam Wainwright’s overall number), the long-term effect is to essentially treat someone like a pitcher: throw strikes and just LET them hit the ball and get themselves out. It’s too easy a weakness to exploit for a long-term deal player, and he could/should be replaced against lefties.
You mentioned Garrett Jones above. Assuming he were opposite-handed and to be used in a platoon here, would you not take the 10 point OBP reduction (.337 career against his better half) in exchange for the 224 point up-tick in SLG?
But pitchers aren’t just “letting” him hit the ball to get himself out. I imagine if they just “let” him hit the ball, he would hit better than .243 and slug better as well. They are pitching to him like the weapon that he can be. He still gets on base, which means he’s not chasing pitches that much.
What would be a more appropriate term than “below average”? A full-time wRC+ of 92 would put him in-line with 2013’s Trevor Plouffe and Brandon Phillips.
As for having negative value relative to a replacement-level right-handed platoon player, I think you’d have to prove that out. Can we take Jesus Guzman as an example? By fWAR, he was replacement level last year. He hit that mark by hitting .226/.297/.378 for a wRC+ of 92 (exactly Choo’s career mark against lefties). He also put up negative defensive value in a small sample. Stands to a reason that an average fielder could put up even worse offensive numbers to reach 0 WAR. Given that Choo is an average-ish corner outfielder and average-ish baserunner, he could outplay a replacement-level right-handed platooner just by hitting his career numbers vs. lefties.
Lucky for Choo that right handed pitchers are still allowed in the majors.
…with a 207 avg the last 2 yrs vs LH?
I think he is better than a platoon player, he just isn’t good enough for 7 years at 20 mil a year
you could find a fault in any player if you want to….
His OBP vs LHP last year was .349 – the only Ranger with over 300 AB and a higher OBP on the season overall was Adrian Beltre. He has a near .400 career OBP, and that includes lefties!
I, along with millions of other fans out there, are glad you aren’t running a team.
“His OBP vs LHP last year was .349”
Thanks in large part to getting hit by a pitch 13 times by LHP (26 overall for the season). If we remove HBP, his OBP against LHP is .307
Took you awhile to come up with a rebuttal, and a somewhat weak one at that. Do you take out HBP when you talk about anyone else’s or even his RHP stats? He’s gotten hit his entire career, it’s a repeatable skill.
Getting hit by a pitch takes absolutely no skill whatsoever. I’m not saying it shouldn’t coubt towards OBP but it’s clearly a huge reason why it’s high. He flat out stinks against LHP and I just feel that his OBP last season is a bit misleading. Most people see it as an ability to draw BBs which he does quite well too
If there’s “absolutely no skill whatsoever,” then why do some hitters consistently get hit more than others?
Have you ever faced a pitcher throwing 85+ mph? It takes a little skill and a lot of balls to learn how to take a pitch like he does. Most jump out of the way. (And for good reason: injuries)
If you’re not going to give him anything for it, fine. But you certainly shouldn’t dock him for it to make your point. The man gets on base, period.
“then why do some hitters consistently get hit more than others?”
Because some players crowd the plate more than others. Not sure how much Choo does it though.
“But you certainly shouldn’t dock him for it to make your point. The man gets on base, period.”
I never said he doesn’t get on base, I’m just simply pointing out the HBP’s which are more times than not a bad throw by the pitcher, was a huge factor why last year, a .040 difference.
I think he’s a great player, but I also think he is very poor against LHP. I never called him a platoon player like others have.
The Rangers lineup just got a whole lot better. With the bullpen and starting pitching, Texas has to be the favorites for the AL West.
2nd Oakland still are the favorites.
How? Rangers have improved significantly while Oakland is basically the same team.
Rangers lost their closer and Kinsler plus no Cruz while adding 2 players. The A’s changed out a starter and a closer but rebuilt the back of the bullpen. The A’s also added a super utility player and a stronger 4th outfielder. Scouts still pick the A’s as the team to beat.
Rangers will be adding Choo and Fielder to a team that won 91 games last year. And will be replacing Kinsler with Profar, Nathan with Scheppers and the Tepesch/Grimm/Wolf disaster with a healthy Matt Harrison.
The A’s have replaced Balfour with Johnson, Smith with Gentry, Blevins with Gregerson, and added Kazmir. Come on man.
So who is replacing Scheppers place in the bullpen? Who is replacing Profar place as super utility? Who is replacing Cruz? Who is replacing AJ behind the plate? So that is 4 big downgrades you failed to mention. Rangers fans can always dream of a world series trophy but can go to Oakland to see 4.
Really?
1. Feliz takes over the bullpen spot
2. Fielder EASILY covers Cruz production and then some.
3. Super utility? Really?
4. You got me good here bro. OAK will be favorites because we lost AJP.
Argh, I knew Texas should have re-signed AJP! Now we’ll never defeat the A’s, much less win a World Series!
Starting catcher who batted .192 is a improvement? That is funny. Feliz taken out of the rotation to be a closer now you have another hole. Texas Bench is weak very weak especialy faciung the many lefty relievers coming in to face Choo and Fielder. You got to love the optimistic ranger fans who believe anything can happen.
You’re just reaching now. No one said we improved at catcher. You got me there! Pat yourself on the back! How is Feliz being taken out of the rotation if he didn’t start a single game last year? Then bench is weak? Our bench has Michael Choice, Engel Beltre, and JP Arencibia. All we need now is a back up infielder.
Are you done pretending that you know what you’re talking about when it comes to the Rangers yet?
Don’t need to pretend. The last 2 years the rangers were the ones to beat according to ranger fans and they were beat. Never count on players have career years. The division will be tougher and the A’s have improved even if you hate to admit it.
I really believe that if we give Soto a shot to play almost everyday, we can see some solid numbers. He has raw power, the Angles can attest to that from first hand experience. Lets give Soto a shot.
Not to mention Rios was was a mid season acquisition so HE basically replaces Cruz.
They didn’t make the playoffs with Rios either.
Didn’t say they did but a full season with him replacing Murphy and Choo replacing Cruz…they automatically improve.
Cruz had more HR, a higher AVG, and a higher SLG than Fielder last year despite playing 50 less games. How will Fielder “easily” replace him?
you’re comparing basically a career year from Cruz to Prince’s worst season. Cruz is a strikeout machine, the last thing we need.
It’s a massive waste to use Profar as a utility player. He needs everyday play at a regular position at this point.
Well……..then it’s a good thing he’s Texas’ starting 2b…
Yep
Yea I’m sure there will be no drop in production from Kinsler to the .230 hitting Profar.
Getting him into a consistent position and allowing him get the position down and start focusing on hitting should help. It beats throwing him into different positions every day and still getting that .230 hitting. The guy is 20 and has a far higher upside but using him as a utility player just stunts his growth. Also Profar is going to be an amazing defensive player.
Maybe because the Rangers have lost Murphy, Garza, Nathan, Cruz, Pierzynski, Kinsler, and Gentry and think that spending $250 million on two 30 year old players is somehow going to make them “better”.
Rangers have already replaced that production and then some. Only position they didn’t get better at is catcher.
Garza > Harrison, Nathan > Scheppers, Pierzynski > Arencibia, Kinsler > Profar, Cruz = Fielder (although Cruz was way better last year), Gentry > Choice…. the only upgrade was Choo over Murphy. Not too mention that Beltre has to fall off at some point. Rangers are no better than last year.
See you lost all credibility when you said Cruz=Fielder
See you lost all credibility when you said Cruz=Fielder
I think 7 yr 147 million
Boras does it again! Gets a player that should have no longer than a 5 year deal a 7 year deal.
Why do these teams keep throwing away so much money!
One thing about the rangers is they will see lots of lefties this year. The team is stacked against righties but lefties will give them trouble. The rangers 2 best hitters against lefties were traded.
There are only 1 maybe 2 starting lefty pitchers in the AL West that are in the top 2 of their teams respective pitching rotation; meaning there is no discernable ace lefty in the AL West. CJ Wilson is one. I don’t know if there is a second.
Oakland has the best lefty relief in baseball. The angels just picked up 2 lefty starters. So expect Choo and Fielder to struggle at times.
Most lefties are # 4 or 5 at best. Always good to face the bottom rungs.
They aren’t throwing it away if they’re still making profit
Boras obviously wanted him to hold out until the Brett Pill situation was resolved…
Also, are any pitchers ever going to sign?
All waiting on Tanaka and the Golden Eagles to stop wasting everyone’s time.
You’d think they’d just go for it, and set Tanaka’s market/lower his bargaining power, as opposed to the other way around…
My guess would be the pitchers’ agents aren’t talking serious prices until Tanaka sets the the bar.
I would rather have Nellie for 3 than Choo for 7
Cruz is terrible.
I like Cruz to DH and let Choice handle LF.
Cruz rakes
um… 1.3, 1.1, and 1.5 fWARs over the last 3 years. He is TERRIBLE.
I’ve been watching him for years, he is not terrible
OK OK not terrible but he stinks. Definitely overrated and I wouldn’t expect him to “rake” at ages 33, 34, and 35.
I’d take Choo in a heartbeat. At least over the first part of his contract you’d get great production with his skill set. Cruz going forward for ages 33, 34, and 35 at less than 2 WAR each? I’d rather take the risk on Choo.
You would rather the lesser player who can’t match Choo’s production even when juicing? A horrid OF who’s only really position is DH?
There is no debate that Choo is WAY ahead of Nellie offensively or defensively.
Yes I would
Agreed he may be better, I think a little better, not $100 million better
Cruz apparently wants 3-5 years though but I would also rather have Cruz for 3 than Choo for 7.
I wonder if Choo will pass his physical? =P
Looks like TEX didn’t want to wait around for the Tanaka decision. Love Choo as a player but seven years is a long time!
Does this mean Tanaka is destined for one of the AL East evil empires (either the Yanks or Bosox) in 2014 or 2015?
The Dodgers could sign him or he might not be posted at all
I don’t know how Dodgers will fit him in the rotation that already has Kershaw, Greinke, Ryu, Haren, Beckett, Billingsley, If they can find room for Crawford, Kemp, Ethier, and Puig to play OF, Tanaka can join in the rotation as well.
I highly doubt it’s the Red Sox. Too much pitching to begin with, plus they have a surplus of quality arms coming up.
I personally don’t think they like Tanaka that much. I guess we’ll find out but I’m not really expecting them to do anything on him other than maybe running up the price for someone else.
Why can’t they get both?
The Rangers still aren’t gonna be any good if they don’t get rid of Ron Washington
Really? Haters gonna hate.
Wash has his flaws with pitching decisions but he’s a very solid manager.
So this must mean the O’s and the M’s will make a stronger push for Cruz
As an M’s fan, I hope not.
I’m wondering if the Rangers really caved in and topped the Yankees offer to Choo or if they did 5-6 with option years to save face? Also, this bodes ill for Tanaka bidders because the Rangers might have some early info that Tanaka won’t be made available this year.
I think the Rangers topped the Yankees offer because Boras was determined to get a better deal done
Apparently not if 7 yrs/130 is correct.
He cost himself 10 mil by turning down the Yankees offer.
He would have lost that extra 10 because of state tax in New York compared to Texas which has no state tax.
I think Choo is a bigger need than Tanaka. Rangers have a good staff, but getting a good lead-off hitter and left-handed hitter like Choo was something they needed.
I think the Rangers’ signing of Choo was based more on need than intel on Tanaka.
Oh, I agree. The Rangers needed Choo more than Cruz (DH) or Tanaka. I think a lot of the news from Texas about focusing on a Tanaka was posturing, but I believe there is a desire for Tanaka more than a need as Tanaka is an upgrade over Ogando & Holland (potentially).They obviously really wanted Choo and now have a very powerful lineup.
glorified platoon player gets 7 years
You sound mad bro.
What would be the difference if he got to his OPS with completely even splits? People are completely underevaluating Choo’s value because of his splits…
The evaluation comes from the fact that if used appropriately, a team could and should get more production out of the ~200 PA Choo see’s against LHP, and consequently get more production out of the combines 700 PA of Choo + platoon partner. The fact he got 7/130 and essentially is a RHP masher and a “can still take a walk” vs LHP player is why people are pointing out his horrible splits.
I guess the Rangers….
Choo-choo-choosed him
He better get more then the yankees offered him, if not, he’s getting boood in and out of yankee stadium.
I read $130 million from Heyman
The yanks offered 140 million so I would think higher than 130
yea but that offer was off the table after they signed Beltran.
So? They do that to their own players.
I doubt Choo cares.
Good signing for the Rangers.
martin, choo, fielder, beltre, rios, profar, andrus
Choo, Andrus, Beltre, Fielder, Rios, Moreland, Soto, Martin, Profar
Career vs RHB – 2,147 AB,.309/.411/.521, 91 HR, 19.4 K%
Career vs LHB – 975 AB .243/.340/.341, 13 HR, 27.7 K%
2013 vs RHB – 388 AB, .317/.457/.554, 21 HR, 18.1 K%
2013 vs LHB – 181 AB, .215/.347/.265, 0 HR, 19.9 K%
Ouch.
.347OBP vs lefties is pretty high for left on left. It’s just the obvious lack of power you have to deal with.
It’s not even the lack of power. He doesn’t make solid contact against lefties. Only 8 extra base hits last year off of lefties. Only 64 extra base hits off of lefties in his career.
And I didn’t want to add this to the original and make it longer but:
2013 home – .318/.448/.500
2013 away – .251/.399/.424
Obviously Rangers ballpark is still a hitter’s park, but I think leaving GABP is going to hurt.
That’s an .823 road OPS. Sounds pretty solid to me.
I think it’s a bad long-term deal, and he has some obvious flaws to his game, but those H/R splits don’t seem particularly scary.
As I’ve mentioned several times above, I don’t think anyone noticed that the amount of times he got hit by a pitch inflates his OBP by A Lot. If we exclude HBP, his OBP against LH is only .307 then. Terrible? No, but certainly not good
He got hit 26 times witch is a ton. Have you watched him bat? He stands as in as anyone in MLB. Which is why he get’s hit over 10 times a year. So subtract some HBP? yes, but certainly not all.
I know it’s a ton, that was my point. And a big reason, as you mentioned, is the way he stands in. My point is, getting hit by pitch takes guts to do but it takes absolutely no skill. It’s a pitchers mistake. I’m not saying it shouldn’t count towards OBP. But it makes up a .40 point difference for OBP against LHP
Against LHP Including HBP – .347. Without HBP – .307
I guess at least he still gets on base against LH but power and average are scary bad for a 7 year contract
Heyman says 7 year $130 million. As a Yankee fan , thank you for the rejection Choo/Boras
Wow I was expecting more for Choo after Boras rejected the Yankees offer
Why? It was clearly a mistake on the part of Boras not to choose that contract since it is above Choo’s real value. Recovering from that would be a tough task.
I thought Boras would eventually get someone to overpay
He did 🙂
He did 🙂
7/130 in Texas > 7/140 in NYC … he’s going to play at least 1/2 of his games in Texas, where there is no income tax, vs. NYC and NY state taxes.
Plus a bunch of games in Seattle.
Why? It was clearly a mistake on the part of Boras not to choose that contract since it is above Choo’s real value. Recovering from that would be a tough task.
Likewise.
Pretty much guarantees that the Mariners will finish in 4th place next year…and years to come
The M’s were always behind the Rangers. It’s the Angels they’re trying to overtake.
Jason worth money most hopefully
Obviously he won’t be platooned, but look at his splits. For his career .243 vs LHP .307 vs RHP. And this year .215 vs LHP and .317 vs RHP
Sorry *.309 for his career against RHP
only saving grace is he does still
His OBP against LHP is still very good. He doesn’t hit them, but he draws walks off em at a solid clip
Don’t forget the 16 HBP.
Wow someone else finally noticed that (13 HBP against LH to be exact…26 overall for the season)
.347 OBP vs lefties last season, he doesn’t hit them but he still gets on base
Still a career .340 OBP against Lefties. Sure, he’s probably not someone that you want up if you need a hit to win the game against a lefty, but if you need someone on base to be that winning run, you don’t need to pinch hit for him.
I can’t evaluate a batting average without seeing their OBP first.
Quoting batting average and LHPs are still the minority.
Yet another contract that’s probably a couple years too long.
Seems to me there’s some sort of fundamental thing going on here where teams are somehow bidding against themselves in terms of years now instead of just money. Was anyone else going to give him a 7 year deal? Are teams rich enough that we’re going to see a lot of these 7+ year deals just get waived at the 5 year mark?
It’s a very very short list of players who play at a high level worth a big contract past 36 or 37. Even smaller number the more that age goes up, and we’re still not necessarily out of the PED zone yet. Baseball’s going to have a pretty big problem in 4 or 5 years with a lot of 20m+ former superstars stuck on the rosters of teams that could really use someone 5 years younger instead.
Maybe it’s a small price to pay if they can win now?
130 mil in TX may be equal to or more than 140 mil in NY with state taxes since there is no personal income state tax in TX
It is more money than anyone can spend. The tax is trivial. Its contract ranking, however, is important for “keeping score” especially to Boras.
I’m just letting people who think he turned down more money in NY for less money in Texas know that that thought is not necessarily accurate. 🙂
The Yankees probably took their offer off the table when they signed Carlos Beltran.
That tax is not trivial. I don’t care how much money you have, you never just want to throw some away.
My point is “keeping score” is more important than taxes.
Sure you do, when the choice is between NY and Texas — the Yankees and the Rangers. Boras and Choo blew it.
I can think of how to spend $130M. Give $1M each to all of my 50 family members, spend $2M on housing and law school for myself, invest another $50M, give $28M to charity. I would prefer to give as little of this as possible to a government that will use it for sending our troops to die in Afghanistan.
Part of his income will be subject to taxes in the states he works though since baseball players travel for their job. Where he really saves is on property taxes. He can get better value in Texas than New York/New Jersey.
Wow, paying him until he is 38 years old, hate these long contracts.
Couple that with Fielder’s contract! Unless they have a “2 DH rule change”, things could get messy in 5-6 years.
The west loves those horrible contracts
You do realize the Yanks just paid Jacoby to sit on the DL for the next seven years right? Ever heard of A-rod?
A-Rods issues have only come up recently. Lol, i knew all the Yankee haters would attack me because its only okay to bash them for contracts
No, you’re just stilling in your glass house throwing stones
hahaha perfect example
You brought it on yourself
They came up recently cause he’s getting old. They probably won’t go away, and neither is his contract.
You do realize the Yanks just paid Jacoby to sit on the DL for the next seven years right? Ever heard of A-rod?
So does the East?
So overrated, 130 million for basically Bobby Abreu mid/early 2000s
Better player than Elsbury, and doesn’t have a long injury history either unlike Elsbury.
Not really, Choo has a bit more pop. Thats it.
You’re kidding right?
Choo has five seasons under his belt where he’s put up wRC+ over 130. Ells has done it once in a full season and owns a 109 career wRC+ to Choo’s 135.
Choo produces more runs, is consistent and doesn’t have a injury history like Ellsbury.
So if Choo is overrated, what does that make Elsbury?
First off, your acting as if i was full blown in love with the Ellsbury deal. Im not, but i dont hate it either. I like Ellsbury, im a huge fan of speed and a good leadoff hitter..which he is. Im aware of his injury history but its not a gurantee that he cant stay healthy. Who knows, maybe he does stay healthy. I stated my opinion on Choo and it stands.
So just admit that Choo is better at helping his teams win baseball games than Ells and that a player like that should make more money than Ellsbury.
Because it’s true
Both deals are going to be ugly after 4 years.
I would much rather have Beltran for 3 years and 45 mill compared to this. Dont forget that Ellsbury is a much better defender than Choo. Critical attribute.
First off, your acting as if i was full blown in love with the Ellsbury deal. Im not, but i dont hate it either. I like Ellsbury, im a huge fan of speed and a good leadoff hitter..which he is. Im aware of his injury history but its not a gurantee that he cant stay healthy. Who knows, maybe he does stay healthy. I stated my opinion on Choo and it stands.
But Ellsbury actually plays defense, which is kind of a big deal.
Wait and see the reality of Ellsbury on D, it’s nothing special
Ellsbury wins based on his defense, especially considering he’s a Center fielder. However, I may want Choo signed depending on who my favorite team is. The Mets, for example, I would have taken Choo. His on-base skills just make me tingle.
This is true but the Rangers already have their center fielder in Martin and hopefully he’s the long term solution there so for Texas, it makes sense.
From a Boston fan: That would make him what a lot of us here already know – very overrated.
Bet you didn’t think that way when he was in Boston and are only thinking it now cause he’s on the Yankees
I can honestly tell you no, and truthfully, a lot of Sox fans feel the same way. Is he a good player? Yes, absolutely. He’s a really nice leadoff hitter who has been improving his discipline as he gets older.
But his value is greatly bloated because of one very “interesting” season. He’s a 10 HR, 50-60 SB guy who plays well defensively and is getting better as a leadoff hitter.
But for that amount of money? I didn’t want the Sox to get involved. I wouldn’t have gone past 5 years, 16-18 million.
Oh I don’t blame you. It’s a terrible contract. I wouldn’t call him overrated, he’s just hurt too much. But even if he averaged say 120-130 games a season (unlikely of course), I still can’t see him being worth that amount.
Right – As a Sox fan, we’ve already gone through that phase of overpaying players and getting stuck with bloated deals. Ells would be nice to have for a while, but when the wheels slow down, what else is there really?
Basically, Crawford has killed all feelings I have for 5-7 year high priced speed guys who have minimal power.
I do like the comparison but Abreu was significantly better. These types of players are hard to find right now so this one is getting paid. You can’t say you didn’t see this contract coming considering the past month..
So overrated, 130 million for basically Bobby Abreu mid/early 2000s
I don’t like the signing.
Too long.. too much money… and he’s not a kid anymore. I mean… he’s pretty good right now.
But I wouldn’t want to pay a 36 year old Choo $18m a season.
This contract is an example of why Nolan Ryan was essentially shown the door. He was not a fan at all of contracts past 5 years, and I seriously doubt he would have put his stamp of approval on a 7 year deal for a 31 year old like Choo.
While you have a point, the reality is that teams have a lot more money now, especially teams like the Rangers, and so there are going to be some bad contracts thrown around.
Frankly, I’m surprised Choo took $130 mill from the Rangers instead of $140 from the Yankees. I’m thinking Choo’s take home pay is more living in TX with no state tax.
Whatever the case, adding Choo and Fielder makes the Rangers lineup a lot more potent for at least the next 3 or 5 years.
What happens after that? We’ll see.
By 2019, $18 m a season will barely be above the average salary.
Rangers got hosed
This is clearly an overpay, but I can’t say that I blame the Rangers. They’ve been the division favorite for (at least) the last three years and have regularly been shown up by the Oakland A’s
I don’t know you but with that name and avatar, you’re alright in my book
This contract will be burdensome in a few years from now but the Rangers have a strong window to win now and couldn’t pass up the opportunity to add Choo’s bat.
Rangers get better in the short term, but in 5 years Choo and Fielder’s contracts will be a major thorn in the side
instead of looking at the AVG, look at the OBP.
career vs RHP- .411
career vs LHP – .340
it is an overpay, but overpaying for Choo is better than no Choo at all.
1. SS Elvis Andrus
2. RF Shin-Soo Choo
3. 3B Adrian Beltre
4. 1B Prince Fielder
5. RF Alex Rios
6. DH Mitch Moreland
7. 2B Jurickson Profar
8. C Geovany Soto
9. CF Leonys Martin
That 1-5 is terrific, but the bottom half of the lineup is average if not below average.
It’s not terrible. Profar was baseball’s number 1 prospect, Soto had a nice bounceback year last year.
Why wouldn’t Choo lead off?? Andrus has a career .339 OBP…
RIghty, leftie, righty, leftie
Wash already said he doesn’t like Andrus leading off and wants Prince to have protection. Your lineup looks good but based on what Wash was quoted, I think it looks more like:
Choo
Andrus
Fielder
Beltre
Rios
Moreland
Arencebia
Profar
Martin
Shin Soo Choo is a Left Fielder for us.
ONLY weak spot here is Soto
Does anyone have the offensive stats of Kinsler vs Choo? On the surface it would seem to me that the Rangers have essentially replaced Kinslers offense but with better OBP. I am unable to check into that at the moment though.
One thing I noticed was that over the last 3 years Choo’s WAR has steadily increased where as Ian Kinsler’s has steadily decreased.
Polar opposite hitters. Kinsler destroys lefties and Choo destroys righties.
They DID add prince fielder too.
I know but I’m placing Prince in the level of higher caliber players that Texas lost outright to FA. This now leaves Kinsler sized hole in the Rangers line up still…Choo seems to fit Kinslers offensive numbers but probably a little better.
Add in a full year of Profar un-blocked.
I don’t have them in front if me but I know that Kinsler’s stats drop considerably away from Arlington. Choo will likely benefit from playing half his games in Texas but unlike Kinsler, Cruz, and even Hamilton, Choo has the ability to maintain a healthy OBP if his stats do drop off on the road at all. Same with his OBP against lefties.
Really glad that Tigers passed on this.
If you look the expected production out of the Dirks/Davis LF platoon (based on their last 3 years), you get a near .800 OPS, above average defense in left and over 40 steals.
That is about the same value as Choo or Ellsbury at $7MM total cost v. over $20MM.
what’s the estimate on their payroll at this point?
I think they’re pushing $130 million in guaranteed contracts alone for 2014.
Good question. I’ve been curious about that.
Glad the Angels picked up another LHP. Choo is awful against lefties.
So I’m guessing Cruz is going to find a new home?
Call this one. I knew the Rangers would sign Choo. Probably means Cruz will be going to the Mariners?
As a Rangers fan, please sign him and put him in right field so Choo and Prince can burn him. 🙂
Don’t say that.
I think that’s the first one I’ve gotten right on the free agency contest thingy.
Pence at 5/90 >>>>>> Choo at 7/130
Totally agree
we all like pence’s power numbers, but he does strike out a lot.
unlike choo, pence doesn’t walk that often either
i won’t disagree with that
This was a must move on the Rangers part, after falling short in the series 2 years in a row and losing out to the A’s it was a no brainer. Reasonable contract!
it’s not an overpay.
it’s just that hard to find good offensive players in the league these days.
if they signed choo with this contract few years ago, then it could be an overpay.
choo’s offensive production is scarce.
People also keep forgetting that he hit 20 home runs.
all these talks about him being an on-base machine has put aside his power.
I actually think he’ll have lower OBP than last year’s and hit more for power (and yes I know the Great American Ball Park is a hitter’s park).
Holy cow he hit 20 HR’s, you are right it’s not an overpay…
I like him enough but hate 7 years at almost $20 mil per
Well I don’t think anyone likes 7 year deals, and that’s including me. But its the market. And my point was not that it wasn’t overpay just cuz he hit 20 home runs.
Good move to continue restocking an offense that was declining the last 2 seasons.
Lets go Baby! Woot Woot.
you pumped for spring training?
I hope Rangers fans are happy to have 1-2 years of being a contender, and 3-8 years of possibly being mediocre and submerged in overwhelming and unload-able contracts for players out of their prime still getting paid they they are in their prime. Has no one learned from Alfonso Soriano’s contract?
The Rangers have 3 big contracts. Fielder, Andrus and Choo. Andrus is really young. We have youth all over the field on very affordable contracts with many years of club control plus a great farm system with guys who will be ready to go within the next 2-4 years (Alfaro, Odor, Gallo, Sardinas, Jackson) The rotation has young guys with Darvish, Holland and Perez.
I’m not sure how they will be submerged in unloadable contracts when Elvis, Prince and Choo are the only guys with huge long term deals. They are 25, 29 and 31 years old. I see your point but not to that extent, if they continue to sign guys for these kind of deals, sure, it will be a problem but they have a gigantic new TV deal kicking in next year and no history of overpaying guys until this offseason. Proven by guys like CJ Wilson, Hamilton, Prince two years ago, Grienke…ect
Scary lineup :
SS Elvis Andrus
LF Shin-Soo Choo
3B Adrian Beltre
1B Prince Fielder
RF Alex Rios
DH Mitch Moreland
2B Jurickson Profar
C Geovany Soto
CF Leonys Martin
Switch Choo and Andrus.
And Prince and Beltre.
Skipper wants Prince to benefit from protection.
Idea of “protection” is silly, imo. But I’m sure Wash probably thinks its real.
I think protection is silly for a guy who makes good contact. Someone like Ryan Braun had a better season after Fielder left because he can hit anything…if you hit sub .260 I can see why protection would help though.
Protection is silly and not real if you believe that opponents don’t pitch around your best hitter.
They may end up switching but after Prince has protected Miggy and Braun for so long Wash said he’d like to try Prince at 3 hole with Beltre “protecting”
My initial list had Choo at the top, but while I love his .OBP in the leadoff spot, I think it makes more sense to have Andrus there. Because Andrus had 42 SB last season, and it would be better to have the better base stealer at the top. Plus, I think it is more productive to have Choo, followed by whatever combo of Fielder/Beltre. Just because his .OBP his higher. I guess what I am saying, is I would rather have Andrus on base for Choo, than I would Choo on base for Andrus. If that makes sense? It’s better to have the high OBP guy before the power hitters also.
Andrus as leadoff has been tried it didn’t work.
good to very good, not great.
agreed
Choo, Andrus, Beltre, Fielder, Rios, Moreland, Soto, Martin, Profar
Darvish, Holland, Perez, Harrison, will be a good battle for our 5th spot, unless Daniels decides to trade for a top starter like Price, which im sure he can get a good package together but will take a lot out of the farm.
I think the Rangers have had a pretty terrific off season. The contracts of Fielder and Choo may come back to haunt them, but for now, they have a powerhouse offense and a really solid bullpen. However, the Rangers still need another pitcher at the top of the rotation to complement Yu Darvish. Masahiro Tanaka makes almost too much sense.
If Harrison comes back we are good there. Of course a true ace never hurt anyone but a rotation of Darvish, Harrison, Holland, Perez is not bad in the 1-4. You also have Ogando and Colby Lewis if he can ever get healthy for the fifth spot. The issue hasn’t been pitching lately though, it’s been not being able to score runs.
By “true ace” I hope you don’t mean that Darvish isn’t one…
He most definitely is. I am just saying the term true ace as the term ace is thrown around too much.
Cue the overpay messages.
It is an overpay but just about all FA signings are.
Let’s think of some signings this offseason that may not be overpays…
Ibanez
Franklin Gutierrez
Who else?
without getting into the politics of the matter, i wonder if there is a means of counteracting the “no state income tax” advantage held by Florida, Washington, and Texas.
Yes, make the contract higher.
Now Texas has to reject his physical so Seattle can then sign him on a 1yr $$5m deal. Lol
I have to say though the contract is very high, and Choo should be more of a platoon player…putting Choo ahead of Beltre/Rios/Fielder is a great offensive lineup. Dang. And I’m a Seattle can, so I’m obviously rooting for Seattle to Land Tanaka, Lee and now Balfour
I don’t think its that much of an advantage. Texas has offered many pitchers over the years bigger money and they choose to go to a friendlier ballpark. Hitters want to be here so if you get the money close they usually sign. Choo just didn’t want to play in New York or he would’ve taken their 140m.
Prince will win the MVP now. Beltre and Rios hitting around him. Choo on ahead of him. Jet stream to Right Center
Add it all up and we’re looking at 50HR and 140RBI
Prince is a nice buy low for 2014 fantasy baseball.
Well that didn’t really work for Chris Davis last year
You do know that he had 25 HRs in 162 games hitting most of the time between Miguel Cabrera and Victor Martinez, don’t you?
You are expecting ONE HUNDRED % INCREASE in home runs. Really?
And if you think that Comerica makes that much of a difference compared to Arlington…
Do you think Cabrera would have 88HRs in Texas then, since he had only 44 HRs in Detroit?
I say put him in center. Martin is just not there yet and looks more and more likely he wont get there for a while. Rios in left with Choice/Moreland as OF players too. Either seems better in the line up than Martin right now.
No. Choo is terrible in center and adequate in the corners. Rios would be a better option at CF
Choo sure would get to show off his cannon after getting burned over the top time and time again. Stick with Martin or even an aging Rios in CF.
An aging rios. Isn’t he only 32
Ummmm, did you miss all the outfield assists from Martin and that nobody would even attempt an extra base on him?
No but throwing to the wrong base way too many times and too many rockets 20 feet up the line does not help.
Alex Rios is in right field.. period. He still has a cannon for an arm.
Martin is a stud CF. He has the best arm in baseball and can cover ground fast. Plus his bat really came around last year. He’s a weapon and the starter in center period! Rios has a good arm too so he stays in right. Choo will hold down left.
Huh? He had a very solid season last year in his first full season as a pro.
Choo can’t hit lefties, but he still put up a very solid .347 OBP against them. I don’t know if its a good deal, but definitely a good pickup. Excellent ballplayer.
Four win pickup, minimum. For this kind of production, locked in, not a bad deal. There are guys who will hit you 30 taters, or drive in 100 runs, but leadoff hitters with an arm (although his defense declined some) and an .865 ops year in and year out don’t grow on trees. Look beyond topline stats. Plus he can drop down in the lineup if injuries or slumps strike and you need some middle of the lineup protection. Versatility is what you pay him for.
Right – but what once he gets to mid-late 30s, what does this look like? Power will go down (usually), speed will decrease (usually). Just natural aging. Not sure how paying 18+ a year towards the end of that deal will look…
Olney had a good article on how obp guys tend to age the best.
OBP seems to age gracefully though. Guys without it are usually the first ones to tank hard, i.e. Vlad G.
I wouldn’t mind the first 3 years, maybe 4 of this deal. But this deal could really blow up on them by year 4-7. There are so many players in the league that are already massively overpaid towards the end of their contracts – why do teams still fall for this trick?
Unless he falls off a cliff the Rangers can probably trade him before the end of it if they need to and eat part of the remaining cost. The guy seems to be pretty durable.
Then you need to really consider this contract like 32.5 a year (if you’re going to pay him for like, let’s say, 4 years of quality production). Especially if you’re just going to eat a big chunk to move him later.
Honestly I tend to think it comes out in the wash a bit. You figure if they’re a contender for those four years and possibly even win a world series it’s probably worth it. They’ll probably end up making a chunk of it back on revenue from attendance and selling stuff.
Maybe they will get a strike away again?
I’d much rather pay much more over a short period of time rather than long term so I’d be ok with that. I think more teams would do it but the players want longer job security with longer term deals.
Because the players signed to these long deals are theoretically worth more than they are getting paid in the beginning of the deal which makes up for the back half of the deal when they are no longer good. This is all in theory though and doesn’t hold true for every big signing. Guys like Hamilton and Pujols were just flat out failures from the get go. Dave Cameron wrote an article about it on fangraphs about a month or so ago.
Right – It’s very rare for a contract to be worth a good portion of the money. Add A-Rod and Soriano to that also. These deals almost never work out in the long run.
The funny thing about A-Rod is that he is an example of both a success story and failure for these type of deals. He more than outperformed his first crazy 10 year deal that he signed with the rangers, then got that terrible second deal with the Yankees that has been an obvious disaster.
I think the age of the player matters. Like Tulo and Felix both got long term deals, but I wasn’t against either at the time. Pujols was clearly far too many years and I feel the same about Ells and Choo.
It only became a disaster recently. The signing was an act of desperation because Boston was linked to A-Rod
Well, that’s the point here really. These long term deals usually end up really bad towards the back half – 60% of the deal.
Poor Cashman takes all the flack yet he was pressured by the Steinbrunners, he didnt wanna do that deal.
Yeah, Cashman really has had a bad go of it in NY. He ends up taking the brunt of decisions force upon him.
Yeah but when you get to ay with the biggest bank account in town there is a price to pay for the privilege.
And he was kinda stuck in a hard place, with A-Rod coming off an MVP season and being the best player on the team.
I was hearing more about the Cubs being the team the Yanks were worried about nabbing him when they re-did his deal.
All i remember was the Red Sox were a top team, and the Yankees panicked. If Arod left, the Yankees wouldve got Mike Lowell who was at Boston at the time. Basically a swap
I think the CC deal has been worth it, until last year. Which i fully expect him to return to form this year, he has been exactly what the Yankees needed. An innings eating ace. You dont find that much durable pitchers, and CC is one of them
Didn’t CC opt out and get another fat long deal?
A-Rod’s first deal, I think he out performed. It was the 2nd one – the disaster the Yankees gave him that is the problem.
I think Texas has usurped Oakland as favorites for the West. Fielder and Choo are massive upgrades over what was there before as Profar should be able to replace Kinsler quite well. So what if they lost Nathan, closers are replaceable. Looks a lot better than Oakland switching Colon with Scott Kazmir!!!
I agree they are a much better team today. I just get nervous taking on these long contracts. We aren’t the Yankees. St. Louis is the model from which we should follow.
For the love of everything holy now Rangers trade for Price before my Mariners do something stupid like trade Taijuan Walker for him
Ripoff!
I think this is a great deal for the Rangers. They aren’t gonna love the last year or two…..just like with prince’s deal. But they are ready to win right now and are pushing their chips in. Letting Hamilton walk seems like it was a good move. Swapping Kinsler for Prince I think is going to be the deal of the off season. Prince is going to have a monster year. Choo just stretches that lineup out and gives them a guy to get on base for all the RBI guys they have. If they can go out and get Tanaka or trade for Price to be that 1-2 punch with Darvish, they’ll match up well with anyone. Holland, Perez, and Ogando are all solid back end guys. But in this day and age, you really need that 1-2 punch in your rotation to give you the best chance to win.
Letting Hamilton walk due to salary then spending more on a lesser player is silly. Rangers will be excellent in 14 but this is an overpay of the first order. No way to sugar coat that.
The M’s should have been in on this for that price.
I am disappoint.
honestly would rather have Cruz for 2-3 years
the last thing we needed was another lefty
Choo is a good player, but I don’t see how this makes them “better”. Did everyone already forget the Rangers lost Garza, Nathan, Pierzynski, Kinsler, Murphy, Cruz, and Gentry? There’s no way Fielder and Choo can pick up all of that slack.
Garza replaced by Harrison coming back healthy. Nathan is a tough loss, but Scheppers was phenomenal last year, and we also have Neftali Feliz that could compete to step back into that role. Pierzynski was pretty good offensively, but Soto was better overall. He becomes the starter now. Soto also is a better defensive catcher. Not top notch, but good. Kinsler replaced by Fielder. Murphy didn’t do much for us last year honestly. Cruz replaced by Choo. That and we have some of our younger players that could contribute more this next year. Our offense should be setup to score more consistantly. My 2-cents
Exactly. Not even on par with last years team.
How much slack is there to pick up? Garza is okay but they didn’t have him for most of the season and still did fine, Nathan is a reliever, Pierzynski wasn’t good (admittedly neither is Soto but there’s nothing to pick up here), David Murphy was atrocious, Nelson Cruz hasn’t been good in years and was already replaced with Rios anyway, and Gentry was half of a platoon. Kinsler is a loss and I’m not sold on Profar for next season, but the rest is really underwhelming…though if they’re going to continue to start Martin they probably should have just held onto Gentry and continued the platoon.
Engel Beltre or Choice will replace Gentry as the fourth outfielder and will be cheaper.
Yes, and both are solid
Lot more potential upside as well.
IMO The Rangers offense should be better t his year with the additions of Fielder and Choo. Gives them OBP and power, what they were missing to go along with their pitching.
Replace Garza with Ogando or a healthy Harrison or een Perez if you look at it that way. Replace Nathan with Feliz or Soria or Scheppers. Replace Murphy with Choo.Replace Kins with Profar.Replace Cruz offensively with Fielder. ADD Moreland replacing Berkman at DH. Choice replaces Gentry. How is this not better? They downgraded at catcher slightly. Saved money at closer and 5th starter.
Though I think Choo will be missed in Cincinnati and that he is a good player I don’t think that the Reds will miss him for $130 million. I think this is a fair contract for Choo though and he will server the Rangers well for several years. My one issue with Choo is this: He stole 22 bases. That may sound like plenty but it really isnt for a guy with that kind of on base percentage and nobody batting behind him. This guy should have had 50 or 60 steals but then again that could have been management refusing to play small ball.
Out of those 7 years in Texas how many years do you think he’ll have like he had in Cincinnati? I wager none. His 2013 was a career year and he’ll never top those stats and that is probably why the Reds let him walk away. At best he’ll have 3 more good years like he had in Cleveland and that simply isn’t worth the 130 million dollars so wise long term decision by Cincinnati.
Keep in mind his manager was Dusty Baker, who seems to be anti-common sense and probably wanted his base runners running as much as possible. I dont think it’s that big of a deal. Huge stolen base numbers are more of a luxury these days. They’re good as long as you’re not getting thrown out.
Last year, the Reds had 102 SB attempts, which ranked them 11th in the NL – only four squads ran less than Baker’s team.
Sorry Rangers…a healthy Angels line ups still looks way more potent after all the players the rangers lost. Lets go one for one:
Calhoun > Martin
Kendrick > Profar
Hamilton > Rios
Pujols > Fielder
Ianetta > Soto
Trout >>>> Choo
Aybar = Andrus
Freese < Beltre
I'm sorry, but when our superstars even show a glimpse of what they are capable of, and with the decent pitching we now have, the angels have the better team.
No
Where am I wrong? Without looking at contracts and money, there isn’t a team out there that would rather have Fielder and Rios in there line up next year instead of Pulojs and Hamilton.
Double check Alby’s age, dude looks the Northside of 40. Josh was lost last year. I think a lot of teams would rather have Prince and Rios and I don’t even think Rios is very good
I would take Fielder over Pujols in a second. Pujols has been declining for four straight years. His body is completely breaking down. That contract is already a disaster. Even if just for next year, I’d rather have Prince.
Calhoun is not an everyday big leaguer, not close.
Fielder is better than Pujols at this point.
Soto and Ianetta are both below average and very much equal to each other.
Andrus is far better than Aybar
Beltre blows Freese out of the water, the Freese trade was horrible for the Halos.
Your assumptions were biased.
The Rangers have better starters and relievers too.
The way I see it is 3 to the Angels, 4 go to the Rangers and 1 push
First off, Trout is going to be playing CF this year, so you should be comparing him to the Rangers’ CF, Martin. Obviously you didn’t do that because then you would have had to try and argue Calhoun is better than Choo, which wouldn’t work for your silly argument.
Pujols has been in a steep decline for four straight years now, so Im really not sure how you can argue he’ll be much better than he was last year? Prince had a down year, but he was going through a divorce last season and if that’s behind him, along with him moving to a more hitter friendly park, I would take Fielder over Pujols in a heartbeat.
The Angles still have a weak pitching rotation, until that is addressed 3rd in the AL West is about as good as you going to get. With Seattle this year it might be 4th.
Thus far, neither Hamilton nor Pujols have played at close to the level they played on their previous teams. And the Angels bullpen isn’t good enough at all. And most of all, you’re worried about the wrong team. Last I looked, the A’s won the last two division titles, and the acquisitions they’ve made this offseason look terrific….I think you’re both still chasing an A’s team that is far greater than the sum of its parts. And also, the Angels are a team that, in the last two seasons, has been well below the sum of its parts.
“when our superstars even show a glimpse of what they are capable of”
With a 33-year old Josh Hamilton and 34-year old Albert Pujols, a glimpse might be all you’re going to get.
your Angels will be a 80 win team this year. Still a weak bullpen, weak rotation, questionable offense. Hammy is as good as checked out i guarantee. Rangers>A’s>Seattle>Angels>Stros
Power hitters seem to fare worse in long term contracts than do small ball type players. Small ball players seem to play smarter and longer. Even if the power hitters power remains, often the rest of their already less than desirable attributes are totally gone. I believe the Fielder trade poses a bigger threat of going south than does the Choo signing. Both contracts will eat right up to the probable length of each players high performance careers. Whether they are able to provide that is the question.
chone figgens.
Prince Fielder is pretty darn good at getting on base, he’s not just a power hitter.
Didn’t the Yankees offer Choo 140m for 4 years? He said no to that but yes to 130m 7yrs. This makes you go Ummmm.
The Yankees didn’t offer $140mm/4. That would be $35 million a year, the highest average salary in baseball history.
I would accuse the Rangers of buying championships… if they actually won a championship harharhar
Good signing though. Just some friendly banter.
If Cruz didn’t fumble that fly ball in right in the 2011 WS you could say that.
I know everyone has Sotto slotted as the Rangers everyday Cather, including Wash. But I have high hopes for Arencidia. Last year when the Met’s traded for D’Arnaurd I was let down cause I wanted Texas to trade for Arenciba! I know, I know his batting Avg. Stinks but his Slug. % is towards the top of the league in that position. I personally think in a new hitter friendly ballpark with the Rangers lineup and given enough A.B.’s he could have 30+ bombs this year. But then again what do I know? I’m just a Rangers fan that has been upset with J.D’s offseason moves or lack there of, over the last couple of years. But this year I’m pleased. I would still wish for a low risk contract for a pitcher though. Maybe a one or even two year contract to Johan?
I think, and it’s just speculation, that Nolan had a lot more to do with the lack of signings. He was anti Darvish and held up other negotiations. I don’t think Nolan signs off on the fielder trade or signing choo. Loved Nolan as a player and he gave us much needed credibility but that is where is skill set stopped. I mean he pushed for Dempster and Oswalt.
Loved this bit from Rosenthal’s article: “One rival executive, when asked about the Rangers’ potential vulnerability against left-handed pitching, referred to the team’s three left-handed starters and said, “They have all the lefties.”
that hunter pence deal just keeps looking better and better
How in the world is Hunter Pence a better deal?
Sigh, another Ex-Indian signing a contract way out of our price range. See you back in Cleveland in 2020 Choo… once you’re old and washed up.
Ages 31-38 for a player who has averaged 15 home runs with a slashline of .278/.387/.439 over the past three years doesn’t seem great. But looking more into Choo’s stats makes it seem a lot worse, for several reasons:
a) his high OBP last year was inflated by a freak 26 hit by pitches, far more than he’s ever had before or can probably expect to have in the future.
b) he’s hit .207 against left handed pitchers over the past two years. He’s a platoon player. Being paid $130 million for 7 years.
c) Choo hit .251 last year away from hitter-friendly Great American Ballpark
and just remember he’s only starting his decline now. The Rangers are basically paying for the declining years of a good-side-of-average player… and good-side-of-average players generally go to the bad side of average after the age of 31.
a) he averages 15 HBP a year… if his # of HBP dropped back to average next year, his OBP would drop to .409. Still very, very good.
b) his OBP against LHPs the last 2 years was .347 and .319. Not the greatest, but not all that bad. Definitely not a platoon player.
c) It’s not like he’s moving to Seattle. RBIA and GAB play about the same.
I’m not saying they’re not overpaying; they undoubtedly are. But Choo is the type of player that takes them from a possible WC team to a legitimate contender for a WS, for the next 2-3 years.
But that .347 OBP was helped in large part to getting hit 13 times last year by LH pitchers. If you take away HBP, his OBP against LH hitters last year is only .307
Grant Balfour should have went to that doctor
The Reds were lucky to have Choo, if only for a year. It was a joy to watch him play baseball. Sure gonna miss Big League Choo, but wish him only the best with the Rangers.
Press conference for Friday afternoon regarding a “major free agent signing.” Let me guess, they re-signed Nelson Cruz.
Wow they’re gonna have some lineup:
Choo
Andrus
Fielder
Beltre
Rios
Moreland(most likely DH)
Arencibia/Soto
Profar
Martin
That might not be the order but that’s probably the best lineup out there. Plus a rotation of Darvish, Harrison, Holland, Perez, and guys like Lewis, Ogando, and others fighting for that 5th spot they look excellent on paper.
Its an excellent lineup for sure. But to call it the best in baseball is a bit premature.
alot of Ks in that batting order…… and defensively suspect at best. You better face the world if a Rangers fan and understand that other than Darvish, the pitching staff is average at best. This team will score bunches of runs for a week, and then go cold for two weeks…. Ron Washington will continue to just watch and not put any onus on preparation or performance. I view him as a puppet. Prince may have a couple of solid first halves in him yet, but he carries just too much weight to play at a level close to his contract during the ridiculous hot period in Dallas. He will be a platoon DH v RHP before you think …
Fourth place team in the division.
not many K’s in that lineup at all. Arencibia/soto only. Not Cruz/Hammy.
These baseball contracts are getting ridiculous. Choo is a really good player but no way is he worth that price. Not sure why the owners are meeting these demands and even dealing with agents like Boras. It’s really sad.
So you would rather the owners keep the vast majority of the hundreds of millions of dollars streaming in from the networks?
Not really……. Just responsible use of those funds….. these long-term deals with players already in their 30s are insane.
Ripoff!
Time Value of money???
Baseball is officially ridiculous. Shin Soo Choo, a sub .300 hitter, who strikes out too often to care that he averages 20 HR’s a year, signs a $130 Million dollar contract?
so happy we signed Choo! When did this takea place?