Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (video link) has posted his latest edition of Full Count, so let's dive in..
- The Rangers likely promotion of top prospect Jurickson Profar doesn't necessarily mean that they'll trade Elvis Andrus this offseason, but its possible. Profar is 19-years-old with many years of club control ahead of him while Andrus has only two years left on his contract after this season. Andrus is a Scott Boras client, making an extension unlikely.
- The Padres want one more piece for their rotation to support Clayton Richard and Edinson Volquez and Chase Headley could be the piece to help them make that happen. San Diego didn't get the prospect package that they wanted for Headley before the deadline but they could get a solid big league pitcher for him this winter.
- The Giants made a serious run at Ichiro Suzuki at the deadline before he wound up with the Yankees. GM Brian Sabean instead went for Hunter Pence as he felt the lineup needed more power. Rosenthal wouldn't be surprised if the Giants pursue Ichiro in free agency, depending on how they feel about re-signing Melky Cabrera.
- A source told Rosenthal that the Pirates could have gotten Shane Victorino from the Phillies before the deadline for Brad Lincoln. Of course, Pittsburgh instead sent Lincoln to the Blue Jays for Travis Snider.
I didn’t think there was anything to the Bourn rumors earlier in the season but after what happened to Melky I think the Giants make a big push for him or another outfielder via trade like Choo. Ichiro definitely fits Sabean’s MO and I think Ichiro is more of a plan C.
Somehow I doubt the Rangers will trade a proven MLB-quality shortstop because they have a top prospect who MIGHT be able to replace his production…
Elvis’s trade value will probably be sky high after this season, so if the Rangers could get some awesome pieces for him, they probably would. That said, it would have to be a HUMONGOUS trade and I’d still be crushed to see Elvis in another team’s uni.
Cliff lee and a yr of his salary for andrus?? Im just wondering if you think that ciukd work since lee to the rangers was so.talked about ane I still believe the phillies are gonna trade him this offseason. Rollins could move over to third…
Exceed, not replace.
Profar + return from elvis trade >>> Elvis Andrus.
you shouldn’t
Shane Vic isn’t playing bad, but I’d rather have travis snider for the long haul than a 2 month rental. Lincoln’s been blown up the last two outings. I think the pirates got a steal.
What caliber of pitcher could the Padres get for Chase Headley? I would assume pretty high, but I’m just curious what names would be possible
Lackey, Beckett and Bobby V. for Bud Black Headley and a bucket of baseballs
I officially think that Chase has become so underrated that he is now overrated. No way does he fetch a good proven mlb pitcher. A good pitching prospect? Perhaps some team might do that if they have depth, but not a proven #2 or better. Even a good #3 might be tough.
That is laughable to think Headley cannot land a frontline sp. He is a bona fide top 5 3b if you research it. Well on his way to 25plus hr and 100 rbi with a 285 plus avg. That is worth more than ONE proven MLB arm. He has become all star caliber 3b now and bats are always worth more than arms. Figures that statement comes from a yanks fan though!!!!
#1 – #2 starting pitchers are pretty much the most valuable commodities in the game, so no, Headley isn’t likely to land them one of those. With two years of control left, and still being relatively cheap (although he’s likely to get a pretty big raise in arbitration this year) he will have quite a bit of value, but I think that YFS78 is right that, as far is pitching goes, the best they can reasonably hope for is a good SP prospect or a #3; pitching really is about as valuable as it gets (short of maybe top-flight short stops).
Top 25 player in game. Enough said.
no its not enough said.
That’s not even close to enough said. First of all, that’s top 25 position players, and there are ~10 pitchers who have put up more WAR over that time, so it’s top 35 player. Second, value isn’t simply about how much WAR you accumulate, Matt Kemp is behind Headley in WAR over that period, but you’re kidding yourself if you think Headley has more value (and Kemp is just one example, other position players behind him include J Upton, Stanton, Heyward, Yadi Molina, Posey, Weiters etc.), not only that but you have to take into account that guys that play certain positions are simply more valuable than guys who play others, and top of the rotation starters are simply more valuable than good third basemen.
Agreed.
See reply above. Top 25 player in MLB over past 3 seasons.
Rumor has it that when the Orioles were chasing Headley in July the Padres wanted Arrieta, Britton, and Schoop. No idea if that is true or not. I never really saw anything leaked about who the Padres wanted from any of the teams that were in trade talks.
Padres didnt want Arrieta. He is just not that good of a player. You are not shooting high enough up the chain.
Headley is a top 25 WAR in MLB over past 3 seasons. What is a top 25 player worth in return?
It is probably more likely with the Rangers that they hold onto Andrus and try him out at 2nd and Kinsler in the outfield. You don’t trade a guy who is definitely one of the better ones at his position in the game right now. Plus, Andrus with experience at 2nd will only boost his trade value later on when his contract is almost up. Not to mention there is not a Profar type to back up Kinsler, not even close.
Profar would play second in the scenario, he doesn’t have the range Elvis does.
Really?
it would seem to be a waste to put either at 2b
I don’t think that you’d be increasing Andrus’ value by holding onto him for one more year, whether at SS or 2B. Unless he had a truly MONSTER offensive year, the value of the 2nd year of control to a potential trading partner would probably trump a bit more experience.
Furthermore, because his agent is Boras, it’s almost certain that he won’t extend with whatever team happens to have him.
In a more general sense, I think that the nature of this new CBA is going to force teams to make up their minds quickly about whether they want to stick with a player for the long haul, or try to trade him while there’s still some good years of control still left on his service clock. Do you think that the player is someone you want and will be able to extend? Is he someone you want to commit to for the long haul, say another 5-7 years for relatively big money? Or is the player expendable, whether it’s because he’s merely good but not game changing, or because you might have an equivalently talented player ready in the minors who will be cheaper over the long haul…
I think that the Andrus/Profar situation is a small case study for this new CBA.
I knew the Pirates won that deal from the moment I saw the headlines on this here site.For a general manager who is considered a “ninja” Alex Anthopolous got fleeced on his trades this Offseason, Snider was absolutely raking in AAA and then came up and hit some homeruns for the big league club. Eventually, they trade him for Brad Lincoln who just a year prior was almost dealt for Francisco Cervelli.That screams advantage Pirates. And so far, Snider is paying off.
Snider has a lot of issues… trust me
issues from an organization that completely mishandled him
Not sure what “issues” Nelson is referring to, but yeah, he was jerked around way too much.
it’s odd too because they are letting hech and gose be completely out matched by mlb pitching right now.
Having your third baseman and right fielder on the DL plays a part. I’d rather give Hech and Gose some MLB experience than have someone like Mike McCoy or Chris Woodward starting every day in their absence.
no way relevant to the comment made.
It is absolutely relevant. Clearly you find it odd that the Jays are letting Hech and Gose stay up to struggle, but when it happened to Snider, he was sent down. I simply mentioned that given the circumstances, they pretty much have to play up. Obviously the way Snider was handled was terrible, but that doesn’t mean they have to do the same for every prospect because it happened to the almighty Snider. You learn from your mistakes.
anyone who gets rid of Vernon Wells with 4 years and 86 million left on his contract really should be considered a ninja.
I bet it was Reagins who initiated the talks for that deal not AA. More desperation on Reagins part than brilliance on AA’s.
AA isn’t a jenius and is allowed to make mistakes, no need to defend him for a poor deal that was his own undoing.
He isn’t a genius either.
they probably could have gotten more for Snider, but I think the reality is that its possible Snider would never have flourished in the bluejays system
Better to trade Elvis while they can because they won’t be able to re-sign him at a reasonable price (Boras). Not to mention that it seems likely that Profar will be a far better SS than Andrus at a cheaper cost. Package Elvis with some other players/prospects and get a 1B or C or OF or whatever they can to add to the farm system. It’s all good.
A package of Elvis and prospects would get you one hell of a first baseman lol.
Or try to get a really good 1B prospect in the package for Andrus.
Texas probably isn’t interested in prospects when they’re in contention, unless it’s that great of a prospect who is ML ready.
Everyone needs prospects.
There can be prospects in the deal, but there would also have to be ML player(s).
Also, one of the best ways to be able to afford high priced great players (and stay under the lux tax threshold) is to let good, but increasingly expensive players walk or get traded when you can replace them with equivalently talented players who are young and cheap.
But…what…what if Profar tries to walk on water and he drowns? Then what? These are the Rangers. They are a team with a win now payroll. It would be silly to me to trade Andrus and hope that Profar fills the high expectations. I would rather see what happens with Hamilton this off-season because that might dictate a lot of things for 2013?
Could it be that Profar plays 2B, Kinsler moves to 1B, and the Rangers (finally) cut ties with Michael Young? Or perhaps Kinsler moves to LF while Olt goes to first. Still, any scenario where Michael Young is replaced by someone who isn’t Michael Young has got to be a plus for Texas.
I don’t think there is anyway Headley gets traded under the new management, they are trying to keep their best players now to show the fans change is coming. They have so many prospects they can deal or sign a FA with the new $ coming in. Kinda not the best writing here if you look at the recent facts…just my opinion.
“The Rangers likely promotion of top prospect Jurickson Profar doesn’t necessarily mean that they’ll trade Elvis Andrus this offseason, but its possible.”
It should be “it’s” and not “its” in the sentence. You’re welcome. I expect a 27-to-1 ratio of ups to downs for my post.
I like how it says the Pirates “could have gotten” Victorino as if they passed on something awesome. I personally like Victorino, but 2 months of a guy with a .724 OPS (approx.)? No freaking way. Instead, they got, for the same price, a guy who is just approaching his mid-20s with 30+ home run power/potential who, even if he disappoints, will perform equal to Victorino in hitting and provide options for many years to come. I’m glad they didn’t swap Lincoln for Victorino! That would have been just plain retarded.
It would really bother me to see Elvis in another uniform. I think people are understating his value by being so willing to trade him. The Rangers have a good rapport with Boras. Michael Young will be coming off the books after next season, and the new TV deal of course. Re-signing Elvis probably depends on Hamilton. If he’s still a Ranger after the Winter then Elvis might have to be. Although the idea of Profar (SS), Andrus (2B), and Kinsler (OF) to me sounds better than signing Hamilton to a massive, team-crippling contract.
Its a no-brainer. a two-month rental of Victorino VS. a long term pick-up of Snider.
Victorino was not going to remain with Pittsburgh beyond October. Snider will be in Pittsburgh next year, beyond that, and at a much lower price.
Yah it was smart but Victorino right now is better than Snider and LAD going to make it to the playoffs for sure with him and they pay him any more money after the season unless they sign him long term, which he might do lol but prob. not cause another team’s gonna buy him like the Angels cause they always think they need a better CF, but the Cardinals could take him realistically…