A look at the latest out of the American League East..
- Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports updated his list of winners and losers of the trade deadline to include the deals that have gone down in the month of August and put the Red Sox at the top of the winners column. He writes that while Boston certainly won’t win the division, they came away as winners this month with their quarter-billion-dollar purge. The Orioles also made it to the winners circle thanks to their pickups of Nate McLouth and Omar Quintanilla.
- The Blue Jays had "all kinds of offers" for minor league right-hander Aaron Sanchez at the deadline, one veteran talent evaluator told Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun. However, Toronto held on to the 20-year-old as he continues to evolve at a rapid pace, with his velocity climbing from the 92-93 mph range to 94-96. Sanchez has a 2.29 ERA with 9.6 K/9 and 5.2 BB/9 in 86.1 innings for Single-A Lansing this year.
- Dan Shaughnessy of the Boston Globe believes that the Red Sox owners are irked that Theo Epstein managed to leave the club without blame for the club's struggles this year. Owners John Henry, Tom Werner, and Larry Lucchino have taken a great deal of criticism in Boston for the club's direction over the past twelve months while the former GM has recieved little, Shaughnessy writes.
Hanley with the Dodgers: 868 OPS, 8 HRs 34RBI in 33 games. And he hasn’t been good thus far for the Dodgers? Plus a 5 game sample size is pretty small to base that trade off of…
You seem to be a guy who stays with his team during struggles. Were you lakersyankees4life a week ago?
Or i was born in NY and have deeper roots to the Yankees than most people do to any team, back to my grandfather knowing Babe Ruth. And I moved to LA and watched baseball in LA, and therefore became a Dodger fan…
I was joking man.
LDY4L has been around for a while ..so yeah. He’s legit.
Where does it say that Hanley hasn’t been good?
In the article
All it said is that he “hasn’t had a huge impact”. He’s been good, but I would agree with Morosi.
I’d say he has. Near 300, 8 bombs to a powerless infield. Plus no uribe. Huge impact definitely. First legit power infield bat since beltre
I know that Shaughnessy is, for the most part, speculating but the RS owners should accept the fact that not every deal is going to work out the right way. A GM can build a team but certainly can not control players getting injured or drastically under performing almost as soon as the ink dries. Keep in mind that while Theo left as the teams performance was on the decline he did put together two WS teams and for that he should be remembered fondly instead of this “woes us” attitude.
I think you’re the first yankee fan who’s said something complementary about Theo.
In the end I do believe that Theo started moving away from some of the more successful strategies the Sox had and was simply just ready to write checks. However I think the ownership was happy enough with that plan and want to lay all the blame on Theo. That said, none of this diminishes Theo’s legacy as the boy wonder who brought 2 WS titles to Boston.
It pains me man. It does. I feel achy. But truth is the truth. No GM is perfect. Also, whenever a GM has a mandate to succeed like the Yanks and the Sox then a GM has to be more aggressive and with the aggressiveness comes risk. Lackey and Crawford were bad deals because of the amounts not simply because they struggled. One can say he overpaid by a good 10-20% but would any of the haters have less to say about Theo if he signed Crawford for $100 mil vs $140 mil? Probably not and there’s no way to predict that Crawford would struggles as he did or be this unhealthy.
shaughnessy probably isn’t speculating. he’s been a mouthpiece for ownership for years and has come after theo in print a number of times
There is probably some truth to that. Shanughnessy’s article is most likely a glimpse into the current thinking of the RS front office. They all were given credit for the rebuild, so now the ones who stayed behind are annoyed that Theo isn’t sharing in the blame of the collapse. Kind of sour grapes.
Theo certainly shares in the credit for helping to build two world championship teams. He made a number of good moves. Yet he also made some that just didn’t work out at the end. I think with a little better view now of history, it’s also fair to say that Dan Duquette had done about 75% of the work prior, especially building the foundation of the Red Sox by greatly improving the farm system. He operationalized the Red Sox front office down through the farm, something that simply was not part of the Red Sox culture because of several generations of doing things the Yawkey way. It is kind of funny that the Cubs hired Theo to basically do what Duquette had done for the Sox. He’s more than capable of doing that since he did improve upon Duquette’s work, but it’s not as clear cut as it was made out to be.
Before you start giving the boy genius all the credit for the Sox winning 2 WS, I think you should look at who really was responsible for the Red Sox players that were on those teams. Duquette assembled the majority of the 2004 team and Theo was out parading around in a gorilla suit when Lowell (WS MVP) and Beckett were acquired. Theo even had Lucchino holding his hand at Thanksgiving dinner at Schilling’s place in 2003. Theo is vastly over rated
In reality Duquette had only a minor part of that team. The majority of the 04′ World Series team was Theo. They get no where without Ortiz, Millar, Meuller, Timlin, Schilling, Folke, Williamson, Bellhorn, Cabrera & Roberts. All Theo guys, all indispensable to the 04 WS.
The closer representation of Duquette’s Red Sox was the 03′ team…and we all know how that ended.
As far as the “Beckett/Lowell” trade goes… No one knows for sure what Theo had to do with it. It’s been said he was the one behind it from his home office and it’s been said he had no knowledge of it. Who knows for sure. Not you, not me.
Your downplaying of Theo’s role in the Thanksgiving dinner w/ Schilling takes away from any of your other points. Your opinion on Theo’s regime is obvious and tinting events to fit your view makes it difficult to take you seriously on this topic.
Dan Duquette had a lot to do with the 2004 team and never got credit either, but he always got tabloid style writers as in Shaugnessy and others who make up most of the Globe’s staff.
I wonder when the orioles make the playoffs this year (hopefully) and still in the race for 1st in the AL East some of those same writers who don’t know the meaning of admitting when they were wrong will have anything positive to say about The Duke then and how they were responsible for running him out of Boston in the 1st place?
In my opinion Duquette gets TOO MUCH credit for the 2004 Red Sox! The Duke has and still does make some great personnel decisions but in all honesty the Players who make the BIGGEST impact in 2004 came after he was gone. Meuller, Millar, Damon, Schilling, Ortiz, Folke, Roberts, Cabrera & Timiln. Without those Theo signings/trades the 04′ Sox are the same place every other Duquette team has ever been. At home, watching the World Series.
Damon was a Duquette sign 1st of all and the team wouldn’t have won without Martinez, Lowe, Ramirez, Varitek and when they traded Nomar to get Cabby? It’s like his foot prints were all over that team..
Later on when the team used his low draft/IFA budget allotment of players to acquire beckett when they sent hanley Ramirez and Anibel Sanchez and also got Lowell, both key pieces on the ’07 team and Lowel the ’07 series MVP. Jon lester, who most know has been a good SP for several years, kevin Youkilis.
Duquette never got a fair shake, just because he wouldn’t bend over and kiss the NE media’s behind.
You’re right about Damon. Mea culpa; My mistake there.
And as I said Duquette had made some great personnel decisions. But also alot of really bad ones. But the reality is the majority of the players who contributed to the 04′ win were Theo guys. Not even to mention the purging of the coaching staff and the adding of Terry Francona.
I never said his guys didn’t contribute but in reality the club Theo inherited from Duquette was seriously flawed and without all the MAJOR changes Theo’s regime made that team would have done what every other Duke team did.
Your rational on the trades is just silly or an extreme reach at best. The fact Theo’s regime took what was left and made great decisions with them has ZERO to do with Duquette. You don’t credit the paint maker on the Mona Lisa, do you? Of course not.
Whether or not he got a fair shake by the media is irrelevant. The fact remains he’s never won anything and the VERY BEST he can do is lay claim to a 1/3 of a World series winning team. One that happened 2 years after his departure, to boot.
The idea that reporters like Tony Massarotti who try to say that Theo won with Duquette’s guys is ridiculously inaccurate.
Just like what’s going on in Baltimore right now. He’s taken a team with a ton of tallent and made a few changes (Way less then what Theo had to do with Duke’s Red Sox team BTW) that’s pushing them to another level they wouldn’t have made it too if the previous regime had remained in place… But who’s giving Andy MacPhail credit? No one, because he was part of the reason they never went anywhere. Same with Duquette in Boston.
Regardless.. duquette is finally getting a chance to run a team where he can draft people as he wishes, with a fair budget, or at least as much as he can around the CBA and probably sign a few FA if Angelos is not going to still be shy after getting burned from Belle nearly 15 years ago with a GM who has a head on straight finally.
The only knock on Duquette I ever had was his penchant of grabbing players from the retread pile way too often.. Sure, he found a couple of gems in Sabes and Brian Daubach, but mostly just roster fill and he is doing that again with the Orioles.
I agree completely with that. We’ll see what he can do. Baseball has changed quite a bit since he was last doing this. I’m not rooting FOR him since I’m a Red Sox fan and he’s in our division but I’m not rooting AGAINST him either. I’ve never disliked him and I was happy when he got another shot at being a GM in the major leagues.
I’ll tell you. I was at Theo’s Hot Stove Cool Music benefit in Boston this past February, and the crowd was nearly silent for him.
I’m not sure how the Dodgers are a “push”.
They replaced Loney with Gonzalez, Rivera with Victorino, Beckett and Blanton to help with Billingsley and Lilly out, and I’m pretty sure Hanley is an upgrade over the likes of Hairston, Kennedy, Sellers, Gordon, Herrera, etc.
Joke about the money all you want, but the team is obviously improved.
Odds are that Gonzo will earn most of his contract now that he is back home in southern California but whether this leads to Dodger championships, only time will tell…. Carl Crawford, may, then again, may not return to his glory years in Tampa but, as a Red Sox fan, I certainly hope that he does. As for Josh Beckett, until he learns to compensate for the loss of 4 mph on his fast ball, due to his advancing age, he will not be much more than he is now a 4th or 5th starter on a ball club with decent pitchers on staff. As for the Red Sox dumping $55M in salaries now, and perhaps another $40M at season’s end, gives the team a whole new perspective on life…..and how best to shape their ball clubs of the future. New England sports fans couldn’t be happier.
Theo cared about baseball. Luchino and Henry care about money. Even if blame should be 50/50, I still dislike ownership because of their motives. At least Theo wanted what was best for the fans. Plus I think most fans believe the Crawford and Lackey signings as well as the Beckett extension were more ownership than Theo (Crawford 100%, the other two it’s tough to say, but that’s the perception) And those were largely deemed the worst contracts on the team, as well as two core players who really spoiled the clubhouse. (Lackey and Beckett, obviously. I like Carl Crawford as a player and still think he has value on the field, just not close to 7/140.)
I’ve heard too many stories about who was the driving force behind the Lackey and Crawford deals. I think it simply came down to team strategy as a whole quietly shifted from “who’s best for the team” to “who’s the best out there.”
i don’t have any problem believing that theo supported the crawford and lackey deals. the problem is people painting that as a “departure” or change in his philosophy. it wasn’t. it was an outgrowth of what his philosophy had already built in boston: an enormously successful franchise with a strong, young, talented core of cost-controlled talent. he built that first and it afforded the red sox opportunities to spend on big free agents
this isn’t a defense of those signings. they are accepted as bad contracts. the distinction here is whether theo changed something or got dumber or whatever else is said. people take for granted the fact that he put the team — after 2 titles, mind you — in a position to be able to take those risks in the first place. the red sox were never dependent on carl crawford or john lackey. they were a playoff caliber team even with those players providing nothing at all. what does that tell you about how the rest of the roster was constructed?
go ahead and blame him for his mistakes. but doing that without crediting for the enormous amount of good he did for that organization is a mistake that is made far too often
Well said. It’s near impossible to be a team that is out to a WS every single year and be completely dependent on young cost controlled players. You HAVE to retain your own stars and supplement what you don’t have internally with FA. There’s an inherent risk with ANY free agent you acquire and all GMs will eventually get bitten. This idea that the signings of Lackey and Crawford somehow left them handcuffed and unable to make other changes as needed is laughable and a fallacy.
“…while the former GM has recieved little”??? Sounds like Mr. Shaughnessy needs to read my MLBTR comments!!
Uh, excuse me. I am not a Red Sox or Theo fan but if the owners DIDN’T want to sign players they DIDN’T have to approve the deals or write the checks. It is not like Theo just decided to sign the players and pay their salaries out of his own pocket…..
If Theo had signed these guys and they stayed healthy, productive and the Sox won a couple more World Series would the owners be complaining about it (and Theo)? I don’t think so. It is only AFTER they approve the deals and they don’t work out that they complain about the GM…..
Ownership doesn’t and can’t “approve” every deal. That’s Baseball operations job. They take the biggest deals to ownership and they PITCH them the idea to sign said players. The idea that the ownership has say in the day to day player evaluation and signings is a bit deluded.
Theo never wanted Crawford. That was pushed on him by Lucchino. Lackey was a knee jerk reaction from the owners over losing Jason Bay. The owners just love passing the buck and never take fault for anything.
What? I have no idea where you get all that?
Theo has been on the record multiple times saying Crawford was his target, he even had a scout following him for a year. If the 2006 “Gorilla suit” incident taught us anything it’s that Theo didn’t let Lucchino “push” him around. As a matter of fact Theo had power OVER Lucchino in the Baseball Ops decision making when he was rehired. Crawford was a result of the Saber metric number pushing that had consumed Baseball ops and they sold it to ownership. (See: Mike Cameron 2 years $16 million)
“Losing Jason Bay”? What are you even talking about? They had a multi-year deal w/ Bay that THEY backed out of! Then re-offered a 1 year deal. Lacky was their 2nd choice, Matt Holiday was their first. They offered Holliday the same contract that they gave Lackey and he turned it down.
The Lackey contract plan was a solid one that just didn’t work out. He was, at that time, the ONLY top of the rotation starter on the free agent market for the next 4 years…the one’s coming on the market were; Josh Beckett, Cliff Lee & Cole Hamels. Signing Lackey and extending Beckett solidified the rotation for years to come and didn’t put all their eggs in the Cliff Lee basket. In hindsight it didn’t work out AT ALL! Obviously.
But, the point being nothing you’ve pointed to has much to do with ownership and really all it does is show that ownership was willing to go along with anything Theo said.
There’s alot of revisionist history out there about the Red Sox and what happened during the last few years of Theo’s regime and alot of it is really “out there”…you’re just perpetuating that.
“The Blue Jays had “all kinds of offers” for minor league right-hander Aaron Sanchez”
ofcourse they did, after the happ trade and pittsburgh got Snider for a reliever , teams we’re lining up offering the Jays relievers for prospects.
There’s some truth in what you say. However, you must take things in context.
The players in the Happ deal weren’t top 10 prospects. The Delabar/Thames deal is actually pretty decent, but the Lincoln/Snider deal was a undersell.
I can see why you hold some animosity to AA’s handling of the trade deadline, but overall, it was bad, not horrible.
its still depleted depth .
the reality is that the team has more question marks going in to 2013 than it did going in to 2012. Rotation is in shambles, bullpen is meh, LF, 2B and one of 1B/DH (depending where EE plays) are still gaping holes.
outside of d’arnaud, no other minor leaguer looks ready to contribute at a major league level for next year. Mcquire and Jenkins both took massive steps backwards, Gose has look lost at the plate in the bigs
its going to be an important offseason of bringing in some credible players and turning the prospects in to legit everyday players
I think Farrel is a big part of that too. With all the rumors constantly circulating about the Red Sox the Jays’ really have to settle it. Either offer him an extention and show everyone Ferrel is the guy for at least the next 4 years or let him go back to the Red Sox.
The loss of depth was necessary. 2 of 5 starters have been lost to TJ surgery and won’t pitch until 2014. Happ and Villaneuva are needed to bridge the gap for 2013.
Bullpen is 10x better now than it was before. I shouldn’t need to elaborate on that point. Furthermore, Janssen, Perez, Delabar, Lincoln are here to stay long term. Expect more consistency from the bullpen for the years to come.
C – Arencibia
1B – Encarnacion
2B – Hech -> can spend the off-season learning 2B
SS – Escobar -> keep position due to seniority
3B – Lawrie
LF – Sierra -> this guy is ML ready; could produce .270/.320/.400
CF – Rasmus
RF – Bautista
DH – D’arnaud -> can also catch a bit
The catching would work as follows:
– JPA catches 3 of 5 pitchers
– Mathis catches 1 pitcher, pinch hits when not catching
– D’arnaud catchers 1 pitcher and DH when not catching
The only real holes for 2013 are:
1) grabbing an ace to anchor the staff
– I don’t consider Greinke to be an ace
2) Sort out the excess of 1B, namely Cooper and Lind
– Milwaukee could use Cooper; possible trade here
3) Get better bench players
– Davis and McCoy are doing a good job
– Scutaro and Jones could be good additions
You can’t really blame GM AA for the overall regression of the team. He did what he could to improve the team. Players’ regressions and injuries are beyond AA’s control.
hech arencibia sierra in the same line up?
sub .300 obp for all!
also grienke not an ace? and why would the brewers want cooper
Greinke is not an ace. He doesn’t provide the consistency to prove himself. The evaluation can be a little tricky, because his ERA is often higher than his FIP. Even good peripherals can only tell so much…
The reality is that Greinke only has 1 superstar season and a bunch of okay/good/great seasons.
Cooper is a cost-effective, high BA, low K type of guy and can be acquired very cheaply. The Brewers don’t have any real 1B players as Hart should be in the OF and their best 1B prospect (Hunter Morris) is still in Double A. Until something better comes along, Cooper can fill in as a stop-gap.
As for your comment about Hech/Arencibia/Sierra, you gotta give the young player a chance. Young kids, especially rookies, need to figure things out. Not everyone begins their careers like Mike Trout.
Jays can hit. All you have to do is get a bit of pitching and you are a contender as shown by the Athletics and Orioles. Again they look so close but obviously Morrow has to be as good as before his latest injury. Romero , who knows ?
Dear Boston owners,
Theo left because it was a good business decision for him. The organization you own was falling apart, and if ownership can’t keep management around, then the workers will leave because it’s not a good place to be.
Sincerely,
T.P.
Dear Mr. Paine,
Theo showed his “loyalty” to the Red Sox and their fans by abandoning ship years ago, before they foolishly lured him back. He then saddled his employers with a ginormous payroll, dumping this steaming mess into the lap of Terry Francona who was supposed to “manage” Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroia and 23 swollen egos. Hopefully, either he won’t pull the same stunt with the Cubbies, or they’ll tell him his services are no longer needed before he has them looking like the ’62 Mets.
Regards,
Mike
it’s amazing how fast some Sox “fans” turn on Theo. You harp on the Lackey and Crawford contracts and completely ignore everything else. Here’s a news flash: “No GM walks on water or feeds 5,000 people with
five loaves and two fish”.
How about looking at all the good vs all the bad.
Highlights:
-David Ortiz-Signed as FA for a collective 2/$6 mil (1 year arb) and produced 72 hrs over those 2 years. The extension of 3/$20 which led to 136 hrs and 17 WAR those 3 years.
-Keith Foulke-Signed as a FA and while he was horrible for 2/3 of the year signed he was stellar as your closer for the 1st WS team in over 75 years.
Last I checked, Lester, Ells, Paps, Bard, Pedroia and the pieces used to get Agonz were all signed and developed by Theo.
So balance things. No Gm is perfect and it’s dishonest, and a bit of a lazy sham, to simply look at a 2 or 3 year window in an entire 10 year history.
Oh, yeah. All of this. And that 2007 WS title.
The Theo bashing gets old fast.
Sure, he had more resources than most GMs to work with, but he still won two titles while playing in the AL East. And he had to deal with the terrible Boston media.
And the Lackey/Crawford signings were heavily influenced by the ownership and the Boston media/fanbase. “You don’t want a retooling year, so here, we’ll sign Lackey and Crawford.”
Loyalty means something when there’s a mutual agreement, understanding, and intrinsic trust. To use a cliche, “it’s a two-way street” if it works. If it’s not, it doesn’t work.
His job with the Cubs is to get them back to the playoffs, first, and that’ll take a couple years. The next job is to make them regular contenders again. Hope springs eternal in the spring, but the Chicago diaspora expects to be disappointed come fall.
Grab the popcorn and sit back…the Red Sox blame game is in full force. I look forward to another 100 years of Red Sox suckitude.