The Tigers have interest in Matt Garza, Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports reports (Twitter links). The Cubs recently scouted Detroit's Erie affiliate, but talks are not serious. The Blue Jays, Indians, Reds, Red Sox, Diamondbacks and Cardinals all scouted Garza's start last night, Morosi adds.
The Cubs and Tigers discussed a deal involving Matt Garza this past January without reaching an agreement. Though the Tigers continue to get Cy Young-type production from Justin Verlander, starters Rick Porcello, Max Scherzer have been inconsistent so far this year.
Garza, 28, earns $9.5MM and will remain under team control through 2013. He has a 4.32 ERA with 8.3 K/9 and 2.8 BB/9 through 93 2.3 innings.
//starters Rick Porcello, Max Scherzer have been inconsistent so far this year.//
Sure, in the beginning of the season, but Scherzer has been pretty good lately.
In his last 4 starts, sure, but even then, he shows flaws. The guy’s only made it past 6 innings in 3 starts this season.
Why do we want Garza? Looks like if we do need a picher why not go all out and get Cole Hamels from Philly. Just saying!
Too expensive and he’s only a rental. At least we get Garza for 2013.
So it’s not that he’s inconsistent … it’s just that he’s mixed stretches of being good with stretches of being bad. Gotcha.
haha…that the problem with both of them, they look ‘good’ for a minute but then right back to bad, hardly ever string more than 3 OK outings in a row without blowing up…can’t have that, now with TWO guys…AND Smyley still a ‘fill in’ #5 guy…AND Fister still trying to get back ‘to form.’
starters Rick Porcello, Max Scherzer, and Matt Garza have been inconsistent so far this year
fixed
To be honest so has Ricky outside of that weird stat yesterday and dare I say a little timely D. Still getting Garza could be helpful. maybe they can get that little 2b Barney as well.
A few weeks back, he put up back-to-back games where he went 5 and gave up 4 earned. Even when he had a seemingly-good start against the Cardinals after those two outings, the 2 ER came on 10 hits. After that, he gave up 6 hits and walked 3. Not bad, but not good, either.
Whatever the case with those two, they need one more guy for a playoff rotation, in my opinion.
Porcello gives up way too many hits. I know part of that has to do with a shaky infield but still way way way too many hits and he leaves too many balls up. Overall he has pretty good stuff but doesn’t have a put away pitch.
Yeah, when you’re an average pitcher without the extra velocity to get it by guys when you have to, it’s hard to really excel.
The Tigers do have some young quality players. Jacob Turner, Nick Castellanos, and Drew Smyly just to name a few. If the Tigers are in win now mode I wouldn’t be surprised to see them pay big to land Matt Garza.
As a Cubs fan Id love one of either Jacob Turner or Nick Casteallanos to be involved in a package deal for Garza. Cubs are rebuilding and are looking to add as many young talented players as possible.
Sorry to say but you are not getting Jacob Turner for Matt Garza.
Haha, I wouldn’t even want Jacob Turner in any trade. The guy’s an overhyped pitcher with a K/BB of 1.42 at AAA this season. He’ll probably never be more than a #3, so why trade a guy who is a #2 now for a guy whose ceiling probably doesn’t even reach that?
Are you freaking serious? A 21 year old, basically MLB ready with 3 plus pitches and a 94 mph fastball that has serious movement isn’t something you’d want?
If anything, turner is underrated an some lists that I’ve seen. He’s a top 10 minor league talent.
Cubs fans..
Theo would dance a gig if he got Turner for Garza.
I’d be mad if we got Turner for Garza, unless he came with Castellanos.
He has a CEILING of a #2. It’s not that I wouldn’t want Turner under any circumstances, it’s that if he’s going to be the centerpiece, and it’s Turner and scraps for Garza, I’ll pass every time. He’s certainly not pitching to his ceiling in AAA, so forgive me if I’m not excited by a who hits 94 with “3 plus pitches,” and still can’t manage a respectable K/9 OR BB/9.
His k rate is down because he wa told exclusively to work on his changeup. Go look at his pitch types thrown.
He has nothing left to prove in AAA with his fastballs and slider. His k rate isn’t a concern.
I look at Turner in this light. I am concerned by his walk rate, as anyone should be. However, I haven’t seen him pitch this year, so I can’t really qualify what the reasoning of this is.
If the Cubs nab Turner in a Garza deal, I would figure that the scouting staff believes that this isn’t of concern though.
I’ve seen him a couple of times and his walk total is certainly a concern for me anyways just simply because it is higher than it’s ever been. Also I know velo isn’t everything but he was touted as a mid 90’s guy coming out of high school and he can tough that but i was hoping to see him sit around 93-94 other than like 89-90. Not sure what his avg fastball velo is but i’d guess it’s in the 89-90 mph range. One thing i’ve noticed also is that when his breaking ball is good it’s very good but he tends to hang it. Again he’s still young but that’s just some of my observation of him.
92-94 on the fastball.
Had some tendinitis earlier this year, which took some velocity in spring training; but mid 90’s fastballs with two types of break. One of which moves 4-5 inches. He’s got awesome stuff
He has nothing left to prove in AAA? He made 3 starts there in 2011.
Look up their stats, Matt Garza is Jason Vargas. Vargas is just cheaper.
Vargas? The guy who’s xFIP is 70 points higher than Garza’s? The guy who’s career high in WAR is 2.6? The guy who’s career era is 61 points higher? Yea, sure.
Career means nothing, this is this year, not last year.
That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read
Career does mean something. Maybe it just doesn’t in the world where only things that support your argument can be used.
This year Garza’s xFIP is 70 points lower, his FIP is 59 points lower, 2.11 more K/9, and his SIERA is 65 points lower.
Im looking at him being the savior for the last three months of this season, not signing him to a 7yr free agent contract. This season matters more.
Career stats indicate consistency and predictability. Not to mention, the stats for this year that I brought up indicate that Garza is clearly the more effective pitcher this year as well.
I think he has too, but I wouldn’t use the word clearly. That’s all I’m saying.
50+ point differences in advanced metrics aren’t clear enough for you?
Not between NL and AL competition it don’t.
This is hilarious
i agree.
xFIP this year:
Garza – 3.70
Vargas – 4.40
That’s about as clear as it gets.
I’d love to see the facts you base that statement on. Garza’s career FIP as a starter is almost a half run better, and Vargas has had the benefit of pitching in one of the easiest parks in baseball.
The Mariners have several top level pitching prospects; therefore, if given the choice, I would trade for Vargas, not Garza because I could get him without trading Turner or Castellanos. I would not trade Castellanos for Hamels, even if Hamels signed a l/t contract. Castellanos is going to be an All-Star player for a long long time once he hits MLB.
Just because the Mariners have more “top level pitching prospects” doesn’t mean they’ll ask for less. that’s like saying guy A will ask less for his used car than guy B because he has more money in the bank. Market value.
They would ask for the less though just simply because Vargas isn’t the sexy name that Garza is. They would have no choice if they were seriously looking to move him. Now they could put out something crazy where they wanted big names in return but that would mean they really aren’t trying to move him.
Vargas isn’t as sexy becasue he’s not as good.
I think the Mariners would ask for a lot less for Vargas then Theo the Great would for Garza.
If the Mariners think Vargas is as good as Garza but aske for less then it’s not that Theo is great but that the Mariners aren’t that sharp.
Matt Garza will not land you Jacob Turner haha
The Cubs have said they want a Ubaldo Jimenez type of package in return for Garza. Jacob Turner could be involved. The cost of Garza will be high. He still has one year left of team control before he hits free agency.
The Cubs can say they want a Jiminez type package all they want.
I want to sleep with Alyssa Milano.
I don’t think either is likely to come true 🙁
ERA -WHIP -H/9 -HR/9 -BB/9 -SO/9
4.32 -1.196 -8.0 -1.4 -2.8 -8.3 Player A
4.31 -1.171 -8.2 -1.7 -2.4 -6.2 Player B
Player A is Matt Garza signed through ’13
Player B is Jason Vargas controlled through ’13 and is cheaper.
He’s also a year older, has less of a track record and no playoff experience. Graza has three years pitching in the AL East and has a lower career WHIP in a better K/BB ratio than Vargas. If you want Vargas however, go with him but if you’re making the arguement that Vargas is the better pitcher then the price you’ll have to pay for him just went up.
Im not making the argument that Vargas is better, I’m making the argument that Garza is not that good. Talk of Ubaldo Jimenez type of package, Turner or Castellano, is so far over rated people think this guy is the next coming. He is pretty average.
Garza is good. Calling him not that good is foolish. And he’s better than Vargas based on the totality of his career and where and who he’s pitched against.
You’re really going to use ERA as the deciding factor? Vargas pitches in SAFECO!
Both players have the same home road splits too. They both love pitching at home and suck really bad on the road.
Oliver would be fine, or Costellanos, but not both, not for Garza. We could fill out the trade with Smyly/Porcello/Boesch etc.
Why would Chicago want Oliver? He only had 2 pitches and has been complete garbage.
The Tigers are in no position to dictate who goes where. Especially not with several teams in the running for Garza and the Tigers being the most desperate.
I’m good with that. I’ve been saying for 2 years now that I don’t want Jacob Turner. Keep that sub-6.00 K/9 at AAA.
Turner’s career average at AAA is 6.8 K/9 and his career average in the minors is 7.4 K/9.
So it’s not sub-6.
I assume hes talking about this year where his k/9 is 5.7
Like the other guy said, I was referring to his 5.7 K/9 (which is coupled with an ugly 4.02 BB/9) in 2012.
Keep dreaming Jacob and Nick are going no where for Garza.
If Turner or Castellanos are not in the trade for Garza, then the Tigers will not be getting Garza
You’re absolutely right. And the Tiger fans may be too, that Turner or Castellanos aren’t going to be traded for Garza. The Cubs aren’t just going to give him away. They will have to get at least one premier prospect for him. If the Tigers don’t want to give up one of their only two then good luck to them getting past the Indians and White Sox. Frankly, the Tigers have a lot of holes and not enough prospects to trade to fill them all. They might be better off punting this season and seeing if Turner & Castellanos can help them next year.
All of you can dream on lol garza will end up in Toronto they have a minor league system stocked full of talent and need to make room for incoming signees
Garza can go to the Jays. I wouldn’t mind getting D’Arnaud in return for him lol
Except D’arnaud is out for 6-8 weeks with a sprained ligament in his knee. Hurt himself taking out a 2B breaking up a double play. Love the hustle but not the injury
That’s fine, I’ll still take him, Cubs don’t need him for this year, or even next haha
Can the Jays even include D’arnaud if hes injured?
Not positive, I believe you can, but if not they could always use the “player to be named later”
I’m pretty sure if a team waives the medical isue, it can be done. I know it’s happened before, but I’m not sure if it was in basketball or baseball.
A pitcher without even a full 1 fWAR for 2 top 10 prospects in a top 3 farm.
Did we turn the cheats on MLB The Show again?
Would love to see Garza to the Blue Jays as their system is loaded. Guys like Syndegaard and D’Arnaud would be great in return, but AA doesn’t usually like to unload the farm. I’m definitely hoping you’re right though, especially if D’Arnaud is involved
Yes AA loves admiring his prospects and nit dealing them which is getting old fast in T.O.
I realize its only scouting and probably nothing serious, but why would the Reds have scouts there? We need hitting not pitching.
I’m hoping they were there to watch DeJesus instead of Garza.
You guys can have DeJesus. As soon as he’s gone we can call up Brett Jackson.
Jackson should not be called up, he is about to strike out well over 200 times in AAA!
I just winced a little. Have you seen the kid’s stats in AAA this year? He’s not getting called up anytime soon.
I have seen his stats. I’m willing to deal with strikeouts if the kid is going to be playing gold glove type defense in CF. He’s fast too. Has 20 SB on the year. I’m just saying. Bjaxx is the next player in the Cubs farm system who is near major league ready. There is no need to rush him while we have DeJesus on the team. I’m just saying we do have someone waiting in the wings to step in if the Cubs get a good offer for DeJesus
Hes also hitting .261 in the PCL…
I didn’t even think of that, but your probably right. Was hoping for someone with more impact in their bat like a Quentin, but DeJesus is definately an improvement over what we have now.
Especially when they already have a number one starter in waiting.
cough cough chapman.
I don’t think their gonna convert Chapman to a starter ever, he only has two years left. Unless they sent him down for the rest of this year, which they would never do.
I expect every trade opportunity is includes darnaud and that’s probably why nothing has happened as of yet. It’s more then likely a no go at this stage maybe closer to the deadline if the jays are still with in a couple games of a WC
I think the expected return for Garza needs to be tempered with the reality that he is NOT the same Garza of 2011. He looks more and more like the Garza who pitched for Tampa and never had a FIP below 4.14. In fact, the fact that he has a FIP of 4.38 in the NL Central should work against him. The best time for Theo to move Garza was last year. Now…not so good. I would expect 70% of what he could’ve gotten teams to pay this winter.
Thank God! Someone who understands! Jason Vargas is showing as good as Garza this year. Top 100 prospects? Are all these other people crazy?
Its not crazy. Look at the haul the Rays got for him from the Cubs. Garza is a proven pitcher in both leagues. The Cubs have all the leverage here. Then can either sign him long term or trade him away. Teams will be less inclined to go after Grienke or Hamels because both of them are free agents at the end of this year. And acquiring teams will not get draft compensation for them. Garza however is under team control for one more year. That fact alone increases his value. The price will be high on Garza because both NL and AL teams will be bidding for him. The team who offers the best package will win.
If you think Theo will trade Garza away for a couple of double A prospects you are very wrong.
These is a difference what Theo will trade him for and what people are willing to pay.
Then keep him.
Garza is a proven slightly above average pitcher yes. Great talent with excellent stuff but inconsistent. You never know what you’re going to get. Is he an upgrade over Porcello and maybe even Max Scherzer? Yea probably but not worth getting him at the expense of 2 or more + prospects when our system isn’t very deep when it comes to the big named guys.
“Its not crazy. Look at the haul the Rays got for him from the Cubs.”
we’ve seen it. we all had a good laugh at jim hendry back when it first happened. right before he got fired
You’re too caught up in his FIP, look at his pre and post all star stats from last year. 4.26 era before the all star break, then pitched to a 2.45 era after. I wouldn’t be too concerned with him turning it around.
You are too caught up in ERA. FIP is a much better indicator of a pitcher’s effectiveness. Garza just isn’t that good.
Turner isn’t that good…
Totally agree. Garza is one of the most overrated trade targets being talked about right now. Why would the Tigers give up a top prospect for a inconsistent starter like Garza. He just is NOT that good. He’s nothing but an expensive #3 starter.
Just checked the top-20 prospects according to MLB.com playing in Erie right now: Castellanos (#2) Bruce Rondon (#5), Avisail Garcia (#7), Kenny Faulk (#14) and James McCann (#19). Who’d you think they could get? I’m thinking at least one of Rondon or Garcia.
I don’t know why the Tigers would trade their future to make a run for this year. They’re below .500 at the All-Star break. They had their chance. They’ve blown it. Even if they took the division, they’d get killed by Texas or a beast from the East. How can you pretend to be a playoff contender when you trot Ryan Raburn out there in the starting lineup every day? They’re several key pieces away from being a contender. Even if they mortgaged the future for Scutaro and Garza, they’d still get blown out in the first round.
The owner of the Tigers is like 80 something years old. He said he wants to win now. So I’d imagine his not to concerned with the future. He’s willing to sacrifice it if it means he gets to see his team win a World Series.
Because raburn is about to put up a +1.000 ops for 45 days straight.
Go check his track record and his 1st/2nd half splits.
Beast from the east? You realize the Tigers own the Rays and they’ve beaten the Yanks the last 2 times they’ve reached the playoffs…All you have to do is get in the playoffs and its basically who gets hot at the right time. Look at the Cardinals last year, won the wild card and hit their way right to another WS title. Just get into the playoffs and hope your team gets hot.
Correct. Make it to October, then it’s a crap shoot
I’d rather go all-in for Cole Hamels if I have to give up top talent…
But Hamels will be a free agent after this year. Why give up top talent for a rental player?
Which is exactly why I think the Tigers should stand pat with their pitching and upgrade cheaply by getting a DH/corner OF and cutting their ties with Elmn. No need to give up either Castellanos or turner going that route
You’re not the guy who is probably going to get fired if the Tigers don’t make the playoffs.
The starting pitching wont be what keeps them out of the playoffs.
I agree completely
Garza is a fine #3 and weak #2. for 1.5 yrs at $15m and Barney? I’m sure the Cubs want Turner or Castellanos, but never gonna happen. Detroit from a payroll perspective can’t keep Garza long term, nor one of Max or Porcello, assuming Fister is failing now due to the chronic injury. Trading a young SP in that cost environment is a bad idea. The Cubs are still 3 years away from contending minimum, so trying to work some Porcello or Smyly and prospects for Garza isn’t likely. Really not a match here unless the Cubs can’t get a better offer than a package of Boesch/Crosby/Brantley/Ty Gibson and Westlake for Garza and Barney. Raburn platoons COF and DH with Elmn/Dirks/Berry…
No Braves, yes!
I would rather see if Turner and others will pan out before going after anybody.
I think what is more important is to get someone like Darwin Barney at 2nd Base. He is ranked #1 Defensively in MLB at 2nd Base and is hitting 50 points higher than Santiago and at least 75 points higher than Rayburn.
I also think that Miggy and Prince should share 1st Base and DH Duties. Get a Chase Headley from SD Padres and insert him into D. Young’s spot in the line up.
Headley is ranked #2 Defensively in MLB at 3rd Base and is a very good switch hitter with 8 home runs and 42 RBI. Pretty good for playing half his games at Petco Park!
Chase Headly isn’t going to happen. Barney certainly could and I would love it.
Here’s a question, Detroit is looking for SP,2B, and OF help, do you think They would give up Jacob T and Nick C for Garza, DeJesus, and Barney?
Add in brantly, Crosby/few more filler picks and that sounds like a viable blockbuster.
Sarcasm there?? Cuz there is no way the Tigers would do Turner, Castellanos, Crosby, Brantly for Garza, DeJesus, and Barney. However, as a Cubs fan, where do I sign?? haha
What we need is a second baseman, who can field and hit………..we have enough pitching for now.
Only way I trade Castellanos is if Castro is involved. I would do a Castellanos/Turner/Porcello/Oliver-Crosby/Brantley for Garza/Castro. I’m a Tiger fan but I think this deal would be pretty decent for both teams but I doubt it would happen.
I have no idea why the Tiger’s would want Garza when they already have better options. No way would I even consider Castelanos or Turner. Garza is worse than any of the 5 the Tiger’s are currently using. Sure he used to be pretty good. But yesterday does not serve tomorrow.
I don’t know that the starting 5 are better than Garza, but I also don’t think he’s worth what the cubs want
hahaha, then you don’t get any help from the Cubs and embarrassingly miss the playoffs AGAIN! Pretty hard to do with Verlander, Cabrera and Fielder. This is a team built to win now, except they ARENT! Turner and Castellanos are the ONLY prospects Detroit has to offer a team. Both is a steep price for Garza, but one of them and a top 10 guy, or both Turner and Castellanos for Garza and Barney would probably be pretty fair. The pressure is on Detroit, not the Cubs. Chicago can find an offer they like for their trade bait. Turner hasn’t shown much at the ML-level and Castellanos is just a kid. Detroit has to offer something the Cubs will jump at, not the other way around…