The Phillies are trying to trade Shane Victorino for bullpen help, Jim Bowden of ESPN.com and MLB Network Radio reports (Twitter links). They realize they'll have to pay part of his $9.5MM salary to facilitate a trade.
The Dodgers and Reds continue to talk to the Phillies, according to Bowden. The Phillies are interested in a Victorino for Logan Ondrusek swap or a Victorino for Josh Lindblom deal, Bowden reports. The Pirates and Yankees have also been linked to Victorino. The Orioles like Victorino as well, Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com reports (on Twitter).
lindblom for victorino? i prefer hunter pence
And I’d prefer to live in a palace and be served grapes by smoking hot babes half my age. Not everybody is selling at 10 cents on the dollar like the Marlins are. There isn’t a team in baseball that couldn’t have cobbled together a better package than two stiffs with losing records for Hanley that the Dodgers landed him for.
Nobody else wanted any part of Hanley with his full salary. Dodgers are wasting money left and right.
Yeah because upgrading from the great Juan Uribe is a bad thing? Fail of a post.
I’d settle for smoking hot babes 75% of my age, but that’s just me. I’d even live somewhere a step down from a palace if that were possible.
The worst part about it is, he’s only 22.
I’m glad someone made that joke, it needed to be done
While you’re at it, we’ll throw in Hamels and pay for 90% of his contract.
Apparently the Reds already turned down the Ondrusek for Victorino deal. We have a lot of bullpen depth, so that’s kind of weird to turn it down.
19 walks and 25 K’s in 36 innings for Ondrusek. Amaro isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed, but I doubt he is stupid enough to go after him as anything more than a throw-in.
seems like the Reds covet Ondrusek a little too much.. RP can be replaced.
From what John Fay said, he suspects Philly wanted Ondrusek and a prospect, which is why the Reds balked. They’d be crazy not to take Ondrusek for Victorino straight up, especially when you can bring Hoover back from Louisville and basically have the same numbers you get from Ondrusek.
I can see a Stubbs, Gregorius and an MLB RP for Pence and cash coming to the table at some point by July 31st.
I believe it’s not just talent but an issue of money as well. Adding a few million bucks is no small thing for the Reds.
Victorino would have to play LF because of Kemp and Ethier at CF and RF
Kemp and Ethier are both capable of playing LF. Might be a good thing for Kemp to avoid re-injuring the hamstring.
More likely Ethier goes into left, but given what we’ve already got in LF I don’t see much point in Victorino. Better defense, yes, more speed, yes. But otherwise, not a real upgrade. Lindblom is more useful than the difference between Victorino and Rivera.
Agreed. I’m not a big fan of this trade proposal with Victorino putting up a .700 OPS. Hunter Pence would be worth Lindblom (and more), though.
way more than lindblom.
Well, Vic is a better defender than either of them so one of them would move.
I would give them Lindblom and another prospect for pence.
and Lindbloms 9hrs that he gives up every time the game is tied or up by one.
like ive said before wont happen they paid a hell of a lot more for pence he wont go that cheap.
Getting Victorino for a replaceable reliever would be a coup for either team.
To the Nats with Mark M. coming over from the Red Sox?
Might be just as well taking Matty Albers, Padilla or Mortenson. Boston would flip Victorino themselves, or then move Ellsbury though. They don’t need him.Boston ATM has too many relievers and Bailey is about to come off the DL
The Pirates offered my favorite RP, Jared Hughes, and a MiLB player for him. I hope we keep Jared. He’s so intense!
I must admit I’d be a little bummed if I have to see Hughes’ maniac expressions and excessive tongue waging in a different jersey. I would have been happy with that deal though.
Agreed… but the Pirates leadoff situation and lack of bench depth is close to desperate status. I would not at all like to lose Lincoln or Hughes… but I would get over it if Victorino comes to Pittsburgh and benefits from the change in scenery. I guess I am on the fence with this.
I don’t think their bench is too bad it’s just that Hurdle doesn’t use them. They have no LH bat off the bench when Presley and Jones start. Hurdle had the tendency to start a guy a few games in a row then just completely forget about him after that. Did it with Harrison, Hague, Sutton, and even Mckenry to an extent. Mercer was never given a shot.
Not sure what they are going to do but things may have gotten a little simpler since Marte got called up. I am also on the fence with Victorino, it’s a tough call.
I would be very unhappy if the Bucs traded Hughes or Lincoln for Shane Victorino. Both are very intense, high quality bullpen arms that are just at the tip of their potential. Once the Phillies come to their senses and realize they are out of contention for 2012, perhaps they would make a deal for one of our major league ready AAA starters. If Hughes/Lincoln are in a deal for a Phillie, it needs to be Hunter Pence and include a bunch of cash coming with him.
if pirates were to get hunter a top outfielder would be in the deal no pence for crap we paid alot for him we wont sell cheap mccutchen would have to come our way sorry.
There isn’t 5 Phillies that I would accept in a trade for Andrew McCutchen, and that include Lee/Halladay/Hamels/Pence/Schmidt/Ashburn/anyone.
yeah, 3 Hunter Pence’s alone couldn’t get Cutch away from pittsburge
Just say no to Victorino, especially if it costs Lindblom. LA fans do not want the cryin’ hawaiian.
You can trade some junk prospect for a guy like Brandon Lyon and not miss a beat in the bullpen, while upgrading the outfield.
Or Dodgers can send some quality prospects to get Pence and really upgrade the outfield. Victorino isn’t that much of an upgrade.
I don’t see a deal getting done (at least hopefully) without getting Zach Lee or Allen Webster back in a deal for Hunter Pence.
I’m not sure I’m all that high on a lot of the Dodgers prospects. They have some good arms but they’re not that different from anything we already have in OUR system.
Still bitter about ’08 & ’09?
Nope, not bitter at all. He’s a whiner. Don’t want.
Yeah – crazy of him to prefer to get hit in the midsection instead of the head like has been done for 100 years. What a whiner.
By the way, Jonathan Broxton was neat. xoxoxoxo
Pirates offered hughes and a minor leaguer as a counteroffer to the phillies requesting brad lincoln. happy that we quickly said no to that deal. lincoln is the future closer in pittsbhrgh, is cheap with a few years of team control remaining and is just an absolute bulldog out of the pen. hopefully amaro comes around and does the deal for jared and a minor leaguer.
Jared Hughes has been very impressive so far this season. I like Victorino, but the Phils would be doing just fine if they were able to get Hughes in return.
Bryan Morris? I think he has a good chance of having some stellar MLB years. And he’s young and cheap. It’s not like the Phillies have a shot at this season.
pence for mccutchen that sounds good what you think
relievers for an outfielder? lolwut
The Dodgers just added a bullpen arm (Choates) in the Hanley Ramirez trade. They can afford to trade a reliever for another bat.
So where’s the bat? Victorino isn’t an offensive upgrade over Rivera.
Rivera is sub-replacement level while Victorino has a 2.1 WAR. Now I know a lot of that is due to defensive value, but I’m pretty sure Victorino would still be an offensive upgrade.
Ain’t gonna study WAR no more.
I disagree and I think their stats bear that out. Plus, he’s an upgrade defensively. Rivera continues to platoon with Loney, occasionally spells one of the outfielders and provides power off the bench.
Victorino: .253/.318/.388/.706
Rivera: .256/.294/.370/.664
The difference is marginal at best, and isn’t worth Lindblom IMO.
Except one of those guys is normally better then that. And if you take a look, Victorino has heated up lately. He looks like he’s returning to “normal”.
Not so much. Career numbers:
Rivera: .275/.325/.444/.769
Victorino: .276/.342/.433/.775
You’re improving your outfield defense by shifting Kemp or Either to left field (plus, removing Abreu/Rivera) and improving the lead off spot in your order.
If you take away the parts of the game where Victorino excels (speed, defense, switch hitting) then they look even. But….they’re not. Juan Rivera has no position, Victorino’s a gold glove defender at a premium position. Victorino is a 30 SB guy, Rivera has 17 career steals. Rivera’s got terrible postseason numbers, Victorino has excelled in the postseason compared to his regular season. I know going with a simple slash line to compare career numbers of a power hitter vs. a doubles guy suits your point, but you can’t ignore other factors.
I already acknowledged that he upgrades in the speed and defense departments, but that’s not really where the improvements are really needed. That was my point.
The Reds will NOT make any moves.. Chemistry on this team should not be disrupted, we have the best bullpen in MLB, a top 3 pitching staff and the best defense in MLB, and an offense that is starting to get HOT, leave this team alone
technically Washington has a better bullpen. Better ERA and a lot more holds.
You wanna look again.. 2.48 ERA, best in MLB..
Sorry, meant runs per game which includes inherited runners, they are third in that which is a more telling stat.
Lindblom for an unimpressive rental…No thanks.
Lindblom + for Pence and we’re talking.
unless that “+” is Zach Lee, nobody is talking
Victorino seems a perfect match for the indians who have lots of relief pitching and who need a guy who can hit LH pitching.
Lindblom is way to valueable to the Dodgers
Lindblom for Pence. .270 avg with 17hrs would be a nice upgrade in LF. No Victorino OVERRATED always has been.
Hasn’t ALWAYS been, but yea, he is for sure on the decline. Young reliever would be a nice return.
2011 the guy batted .279 17 Hrs 60rbis 19sb and was a allstar?? and got MVP votes???.. Doesn’t make sense to me I just hope the Dodgers do not trade for him.
how the hell is that considered overatted. most teams would kill for an outfielder to put those numbers up with great defense
Yeah those are Def MVP type numbers.. lol. He got more MVP votes with those numbers then Players like. Beltran, Cargo, Holliday, Berkman, Pence.. and so on and so on.. All their numbers absolutly crushed Shanes. In all categories. . That is called being overrated..
i dont see why a team wouldnt want to trade a reliever for a a 3 time gold glover and 2 time allstar if they are trying to win it. relievers are very replaceable where a quality outfielder is harder to find
Victorino’s numbers thus far on the season are not that hard to find. Actually, a reliever putting up Lindblom’s numbers is arguably harder to find than an outfielder with a .700 OPS.
Teams would be betting on Victorino improving his performance over the final 2 months of the season. It is a gamble.
yes he isnt hitting great but .700 ops is league average and his defense is definetnly above average. i would take the gamble for a cost of a reliever. he also raised his ops by .036 his last 10 games. you also got choate which does make it easier to trade lindblom. you traded a pretty good young starter for the gamble ramirez hit better idk why you wouldnt risk for victorino.
Because 3B has been a far bigger weakness for us than any of the OF positions. And Hanley’s OPS is 50 points higher than Victorino’s.
ahhhhh but hanley is a cancer in the clubhouse sorry i would take victorino over hanley anyday.
V is a sparkplug . He is having an off year but his career record is better and his D is excellent I hate to see him go!
That outfielder is a free agent this offseason and having a down year. That is why. Also there is a reason teams are always looking for good relievers this time of year. Because they are harder to find than you think.
Why trade for a non prospect when your team is not getting to the playoffs? Ruben Amaro Jr is such a horrible GM.
Because a guy like Ondrusek is still under team control through 2016. That’s so horrible.
That walk rate is trending the wrong way though…
And if you’re dealing for an uncertainty, why deal for a 27-year-old reliever instead of a 20-year-old prospect?
Indians should get in on this. Surplus bullpen should interest the Phillies. Start Victorino in center, then either move Brantley to right and DH Choo or DH Brantley to improve defense all around. Bench Hafner. It’s just time to admit he’s a failure and take him out of the lineup.
as much as i hate victorino lol he is an upgrade defensively over abreu and rivera plus can hit at or the near the same as them and the guy has a winning attitude. For a reliever i would make that deal they just traded for a reliever and they have tons of relief help in their farm if lindblom cant get it done trade away some of those reliever prospects.
If they are looking for a two month rental, I’d rather the Reds go for Pierre than Victorino. Better avg, better oba, a lot cheaper contract. Only issue with Juan is that he is struggling vs. LHP this season which isn’t in line with his career numbers. But that can be mitigated by letting Stubbs/Heisey start against lefties.
Like J.P alot only problem runners will test him cause he does have a noodle arm
I’d trade that for a .340+ OBA … Stubbs is a good defender no doubt about it … but our 1-2 hole hitters have been the biggest issue on the team. I’d prefer Span over both Vic & Juan, but the package to get him away from the Twins is too much right now
Do the Reds not value OF defense? Pierre is terrible…even in LF.
His fielding metrics are on par with our current LF (Ludwick) who is league average, so I’d say that is an exaggerated statement
I throw a baseball harder than he can.
I’d love the Tigers to get in on Victorino. I have a feeling he might play better hitting in front of Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder. Also, I’d love his defense in LF/RF as opposed to CF. Tigers could move a bullpen guy like Villarreal for him. Villareal has electric stuff. The Phils could do worse for Victorino.
The only question is, why would Detroit trade their best setup guy during the stretch run? And when Andy Dirks returns, he can arguably match Victorino’s production.
The Pirates just called up Marte, so they may have given up on Victorino.