Earlier today, Yahoo's Jeff Passan wrote that the Phillies haven't shopped center fielder Shane Victorino nearly as aggressively as right fielder Hunter Pence, even though Victorino will be eligible for free agency after the season and Pence is under team control for 2013. The latest on the Phillies' outfielders:
- The Dodgers and Reds seem to be the last two Victorino suitors remaining, ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick tweets.
- The Giants are discussing Pence, but not Victorino, Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com reports (on Twitter).
- The Reds still want a leadoff hitter and Victorino has been their top target, Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com reports. The Reds don't like the Phillies' asking price for Victorino, and their interest in Pierre seems to have been exaggerated, Knobler writes.
- The Dodgers are more likely to acquire Victorino, but they're also in on Pence, reports Jon Heyman of CBS Sports.
- The Reds appear to be zeroing in on Pierre, writes ESPN's Jayson Stark. He says the Dodgers look like the frontrunner on Victorino, while teams that have checked in on Pence believe the Phillies will wait until the offseason.
- The Phillies' asking price on Victorino is outrageous, an executive of one team tells Jon Heyman of CBS Sports.
- The Orioles have interest in Victorino, Pence, and Juan Pierre, tweets Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun, who notes Pierre is the best fit cost-wise. The Reds have quietly evaluated Pierre as a possible target since June, tweets ESPN's Buster Olney, and USA Today's Bob Nightengale says the Reds' coaching staff loves him.
- The Pirates did not seem alive on Victorino as of late last night, tweeted Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The Giants, Reds, and Dodgers have been named as other potential suitors for the 31-year-old. Victorino is hitting .261/.324/.401 in 431 plate appearances this year.
- The Phillies have pushed Pence but want a big return, tweets Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com. Salisbury says most interest is on Victorino and starter Joe Blanton.
Why hasn’t this site mentioned the Pence to SF rumor yet? Even if the VP is denying it at present…it bears mentioning.
It was mentioned on this site yesterday.
We’ve got a list of reporters with track records we know, and we stick to that. So if a denial happens on a report from a person we weren’t really following, that’s not too newsworthy for us. Of course if he is right we will give full credit, but overall reports seem stacked against him.
So how does Dennis O’Donnel stack up? He did break the Huff and Bochy signings- but the age of twitter makes it a much more murky picture.
We don’t have a huge track record on the guy, but there is one mark against him with a report a few years ago about the Giants offering Manny Ramirez a three or four-year deal, pretty sure that was inaccurate. For now just keeping an open mind but not using the info on the site.
do you have a database of reporters with accuracy/legitimacy statistics on rumors they’ve reported? i would pay to see it
Don’t forget Molina either.
Perhaps noteworthy they were all free agent signings. The trade picture has so many false rumors these days it may be O’Donnel was just convinced by one.
good point, GO
let the fire sale begin!
I hope RAJ is rocking out to We Didnt Start the Fire on repeat until the deadline passes.
Thanks for putting the song in my head now! I can’t get it out!!
Pence is a nice player but having a down year and owed big time money next year. I think teams may offer a strong return if and only if the Phillies add some cash.
I doubt it. He’s damn valuable as it is. He’ll bring back draft compensation for the team that picks him up. And its going to be 13-15 mil on just a one year commitment for an all-star caliber player.
New CBA doesn’t allow for draft pick comp on FAs traded during the year.
I thought that only applied to players set to become free agents the year they are traded… Pence has another year of arbitration ahead of him so whatever team would trade for him would be compensated following next year when he becomes a free agent
D’oh, you’re absolutely correct. My fault and my apologies. I’ve been following Victorino and Pence rumors lately and just got mixed up. Sorry again.
No apology necessary, wasn’t entirely sure I had it right either
Pence will net picks because he will be with the team for a full year next year.
He’ll be with his new team all next year.
I agree, if there’s one player the Phils have no reason not to keep it would be Pence. Rollins’ deal is terrible, Victorino’s a FA. They could still trade Pence over the winter and get a good return on him, for the 4 mil or so they owe him now it’s not enough if they’re not overwhelmed.
Take a look around MLB at the rest of the SSs…Rollins’ deal isn’t a steal, but it’s certainly not terrible. There just aren’t many good ones out there.
Jimmy Rollins’ deal is NOT terrible.
He’s having a 0.6 WAR season 100 games into it. His career best WAR of 3.7 was three years ago. Nice player but not one you sell your farm for especially considering his price tag next year.
He’s also having an SF Aaron Rowand year at CBP an alarming sign. Somewhat average OPS+. And terrible walk rate. Not sure he’s worth an A prospect.
…which is a down year from the previous year when he was at CBP for 2 months. I don’t know why you think a slippage in 2012 has to do with CBP.
Pretty sure he meant that it’s even more alarming that he’s having a down year despite playing in the hitter friendly CBP.
I’m not saying it has to be a big splash move, but the Pirates need to get a bat in the line-up if they plan on making the playoffs this year. I love what Clint Hurdle has done with this team. I would hate for him to be on the hot seat, if the team collapses like last year.
Pence is a perfect fit.
agreed Pence would be a perfect fit with the Bucs, but I have to believe any trade talks between the 2 would start (and end) with Marte… as a Phils fan I’d be all for a Marte for Pence deal but can’t see why the Pirates would do it, trading a younger cheaper version of the guy you’d be getting??
If RAJ wants to get something for his players, he wouldn’t ask for something that crazy. They have very little flexibility thanks to all his 20M dollar players, and Pence is a good player but probably 5M more expensive than what he gives you. No way I’d offer Marte for him.
Also I would laugh if the Phillies stand pat completely. I could see it happening if he keeps overvaluing impending FA’s and vets. They do have a lot of pieces they can sell, and every dollar will help so they can fill out next year’s roster cheaply.
I just don’t think the Phils really want to trade Pence but they’ll put him out there with this huge asking price hoping somebody will bite, and if not they have him next year on a somewhat inflated, but not crazy overpaid, 14 mil… Teams desperate to make the playoffs and win will sometimes do crazy things. Would I make this deal if I’m the pirates?? No, but it doesn’t hurt to try
I feel like if they trade him it will open up so much more flexibility for their roster next year. They need to find a CF, 3B, and a bullpen arm and don’t have a lot of money to do it.
It shouldn’t be that hard to find a reasonably cheap OF bat and having Pence cleared off the roster will allow them to proceed into the offseason with more wiggle room. Also, they need to figure out what to do with Domonic Brown. Either trade him or play him every day for the rest of the season, no point in keeping him in the minors for 4 years.
Yeah it gives them some payroll relief but it also creates another glaring hole in their lineup… i agree next year is Dom Brown’s sink or swim year, but you’d still have 2 more OF spots to fill plus 3B, the bullpen, the bench, and possibly a starting pitcher if they don’t think Cloyd or one of the other kids is ready… that’s alot to fill with only (and this is purely a rough estimate) 30-40 mil to spend and stay under the luxury tax
Yes it would help create payroll relief but it would also create another glaring hole in the lineup… Agreed next year is Dom Brown’s sink or swim year, but you still have 2 holes in the OF, 1 at 3B, 1 or 2 in the bullpen, 1 or 2 for the bench, and possibly a starting pitcher if the don’t think Cloyd or one of the other kids is ready…. That is alot to fill with only (and this is a very rough guess) 30-40 mil to spend and stay under the luxury tax
The front office and owners are prepared to go above the luxury tax next year if needed. Atleast that’s what I read a week ago.
Oh ok well that would certainly help then, especially with how much more comes off the books following next year (Utley, Halladay)
Wait till you actually watch him play day in and day out. He’s less than the sum of his parts.
I’m just throwing this name out there, but what about Nate Schierholtz for the Pirates?
I said in the other Phillies thread that I figured calling up Marte meant the Bucs were out on Victorino. Considering they were viewing Marte as the centerpiece of an Upton deal, the Pirates wouldn’t trade him for a rental anyway.
Now if they go after Pence, I assume Lincoln (who we know the Phils covet) would be the centerpiece of that offer. Probably something like Lincoln + Presley/Tabata + a lesser prospect would probably be the Bucs best offer. If Philly thinks they can do better than that, they’re just being delusional.
Lincoln and garbage might be fine for Victorino, it’s not getting Pence. That’s not delusional. The Phillies would have no reason to accept that for Pence. If they want to move his money they can do that in the offseason with a larger market.
Love the Phils trying to unload bloated contracts. Soooo sorry.
So do all the Phillies fans? Soooo it’s ok.
….or they’re talking about them being open to moving 1 big contract (Lee), 1 guy on a 1 year deal (Pence) and a whole bunch of soon-to-be FAs. But stick to that narrative if you like.
Phillies is still in denial mode.
Charlie Manuel talks about buying players when the team is 12 games under .500.
Phillies needs to make tough and smart decisions, like shop Carlos Ruiz. Sell high.
I’m not sure what guys they should try to extend in their current lineup, I guess the only guy who would be interesting is Worley, who could be a solid no 4 or 5 guy the next 6-7 years. Evaluate him, and if it holds up then give him an offer for a team friendly contract. It will secure his future, and he’ll eat innings for years.
Chase Utley has very little value with his current health, so I guess he’s not going anywhere. Ryan Howard could really be of interest next year for plenty of AL clubs, with the DH availability, if Phillies are willing to eat a good part of his contract.
Right now though, Polanco, Pence, Victorino, Lee and maybe even Halladay has to be traded.
If Ryan, Utley and Jimmy Rollins can be moved, that’s pure bonus.
If Phillies can get 4-5 good prospects in return, that would be a dream scenario.
To let the trade deadline pass, and still sit with the same roster would be a nightmare.
Phillies have a few guys that could be difference makers, in the right circumstances, on other ballclubs.
They don’t do much good in Philly right now, other than eating a fat paycheck.
3/5 OFs, 2/5 SPs, and the left side of their infield have been in trade rumors over the past week. Yeah they’re still in denial.
“Charlie Manuel talks about buying players when the team is 12 games under .500.”
Cholly’s the manager. His job is to get the team ready to win games this year; selling off solid players for lottery tickets (prospects) doesn’t help him do that. If he was pushing for Rube to sell players off, I’d actually be somewhat concerned.
It’s Amaro’s job to tune out his manager when the time comes to pare back the payroll, not Cholly’s job to subvert his actual reason for being there.
Is anyone going to actually make a trade or are we doomed to have a trade deadline in which every team overvalues everything they have and stalemate themselves into doing nothing?
I think a lot of the big chips have already fallen. Zack Greinke, Hanley, Ichiro…lot’s of big deals have already gone down. We’re looking for that big one that NOBODY sees coming. May or may not happen.
“The Reds still want a leadoff hitter and Victorino has been their top target. The Reds don’t like the Phillies’ asking price for Victorino,
and their interest in Pierre seems to have been exaggerated.”
Knowing the Reds and Toothpick Baker, Juan Pierre IS the main target. He is the old, past their prime, Left Handed batting guy who can bunt that Baker just LOVES. However, Pierre is the type of player Reds’ fans HATE (because they KNOW Baker will overuse or misuse him).
The Front Office knows this so they SAY Victorino is their main target. That way when they ultimately trade for Pierre they can SAY that they were going after Victorino but the Phillies asking price was too high so they took Pierre instead.
We finally got a definitive response from Jim Salisbury that says the Phillies would want Gary Brown and Joe Panik for Pence- that seems likely what they would ask and similarly what they won’t get. 1 sure and 1 potential A rated prospects are not coming for any 29 year old not hitting a ton of jacks in that bandbox.
1 sure prospect? Wow I’ve never seen that before
Why do the Reds want a leadoff hitter if they have someone at AAA that has 115+ stolen bases??
I have always liked Pence but both he and Victorino feel like awkward fits. Not sure how either would react to a move to left. For a prospect or two i think Pierre is a good move. Alwyas liked how he hustles and has good energy. Orioles desperately need a speedy guy who can distract pitchers a bit.