8:26pm: The Cubs and Dodgers are still discussing scenarios involving Dempster and Soriano, Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports reports (on Twitter). The Dodgers repeated today that they won't trade Webster for Dempster, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports (on Twitter).
4:57pm: There hasn't been any recent dialogue between the Dodgers and Cubs, ESPN.com's Buster Olney reports (on Twitter).
2:41pm: Dodgers pitching prospects Zach Lee, Allen Webster, and Chris Reed are all off the table in Dempster talks, tweets Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus.
1:41pm: Talks between the Dodgers and Cubs for Dempster are gaining momentum, reports Scott Miller of CBS Sports. The Cubs are trying to bend over backwards to get Dempster to the Dodgers, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.
1:09pm: The Nationals have positioned themselves as the perfect fallback option for the Cubs on Dempster, reports ESPN's Jayson Stark. It's unknown whether Dempster would approve a trade to the Nats.
12:08pm: The Cubs and Dodgers are still discussing righty Ryan Dempster, tweets Yahoo's Tim Brown. Left fielder Alfonso Soriano remains part of these trade talks, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The Dodgers are said to be Dempster's first choice, and he controls the process with 10-and-5 rights. Yesterday, Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times wrote that the Cubs' failed attempt to obtain pitching prospect Allen Webster from the Dodgers for Dempster left those talks stalemated. The Dodgers have had an offer on the table for Dempster since July 19th, writes Doug Padilla of ESPNChicago.com.
Last week, the Braves seemed close to acquiring Dempster for Randall Delgado, and Wittenmyer has a few details on that still-vague failed deal. Dempster said Sunday, "Who’s to say I was going to say no or yes to whatever team. All I said was that I just, at that time, needed to think about everything." From the Braves' end, there's no guarantee Delgado would still be available, writes MLB.com's Mark Bowman.
Delgado might not be available anymore is what I got from this. Is it just me or does it feel like I’ve read the gist of this article before?
Well, this is the first time I’ve learned WSH could be in on Dempster.
They were rumored to be interested a couple of times but it never seemed serious. Especially with Rizzo saying he isn’t moving top prospects.
longest trade talks ever?
I think that honor goes to Adrian Gonzalez to the Red Sox
Seriously, didn’t that happen at a deadline AND THEN in the offseason?
People for get Kirk Gibson to Dodgers for Pedro Guerrero in 1987 (held up by collusion case). THEN Gibby went to LA as FA
Then he got some pine tar inside his hat in spring training and was so mad about it all season, he just had hit that home run in the series.
Roy Halladay to Phillies?
Jackie Robinson’s estate has yet to approve that trade to the Giants.
Dempster, Soriano, Zambrano (Miami), Marmol—Epstein and Hoyer will still be cleaning up Jim Hendry’s mess for years to come. Even if they can move Soriano they will have to eat almost all that salary for the next two years as they did with Zambrano. At least Dempster’s a FA at year’s end and they could get the comp. picks if Dempster continues to be difficult.
Epstein left his own legacy of failed contracts at Boston—Crawford, Lackey, Beckett and Gonzales isn’t living up to that $160 million, either.
Only if they make him a qualified offer and he turns it down. Whether that is a realistic scenario is a wild guess.
coming off his best season as a SP + these crazy markets + playing for a winner next yr = Dempster most likely not accepting the QO. Not really a wild guess.
This is the first year of the qualified offer system, so any predictions of outcomes can’t be more than wild guesses.
If he thinks he can get more than the 12-14 mil the QO will be. Pitchers care more about years, so you have to think he wont accept if he can get a 3-year deal or better. I feel the Dodgers will prob overpay in the off-season for him.
2 of those players you never would;ve thought they would decline like that speaking of Crawford and Gonzalez
I say Demps isn’t going no where until after post season.
So you’re saying he is going somewhere?
Nope.My point was that I don’t think he’ll leave until FA.I don’t think the Cubs will offer an extention.Of course I’ve been wrong before.
They’ll offer one to get draft pick compensation.
Yeah…the Cubs aren’t going to extend Ryan Dempster.
Guess you got a point there.
His point was that you used a double negative.
Delgado should only be available now if Soriano is included and the cubs take on most of their salaries
if push came to shove, Theo probably wouldn’t hesitate to include Sorano to get Delgado.
So let me get this straight…You want the Cubs to add a .270, 25+ HR, 90 RBI guy for inconvenience? Doubtful.
no, not out of inconvenience… The Braves lost a start out of Dempster at this point with the trade not being completed when it was initially made, and he’s given up 7 ER given up in his last 2 starts. His value is dropping.
plus it is obvious that the Dodgers are not willing to part with a prospect anywhere near the level of Delgado. If they want a high caliber prospect now, they should have to pay more for it. It’s silly to think they can get the same deal.
I also didn’t say Delgado would be the only piece, a lower prospect could be included on the Braves end as well, but for someone the level of Delgado to still be included, more would have to come from the Cubs.
and the latest update, that Lee, Webster, and Reed are all off the table, helps further my point… if you still want a top prospect in return for Dempster, then you have to pay more for it now
Lee and Webster were never on the table for Dempster.
they haven’t been since the Atlanta deal fell through, true enough, but who’s to say what was on the table before Dempster went and gave the Dodgers all the leverage
With no due respect to Soriano, I don’t want to sacrifice our great defensive OF (Prado, Bourn, Heyward) for the defensive liability that Soriano becomes in LF just for a few HRs when you don’t need ’em.
Fonzi has been very good in the OF this year, 0 errors so far.
it allows you to play Prado more at 2b and remove the black hole in the batting order that Uggla is from the lineup. Plus, it gives a bridge in LF next year when Prado moves to 3b full time
The Dodgers should save themselves the trouble. No way they even make the postseason.
They’re tied for 1st place, just recently got their star player back from a lengthy stint on the DL, and acquired Hanley Ramirez for 3B (replacing Juan Uribe’s .550 OPS).
They may not advance far without a couple of trades, but chances are very good that they make the postseason.
If the postseason started today they’d be out, as they will be at the end of the regular season.
Still bitter about being swept, eh? Better get used to losing against the Dodgers, you’re not going to be facing us without Ethier, Kemp and Ramirez much anymore.
Hardly. As a Cub fan I expected them to lose that series. Here’s wishing the Dodgers continued luck this season.
The only series the Giants have won against the Dodgers this season was when Kemp and Ellis were out, Ethier was injured, and before the Ramirez/Choate deal. And the Dodgers appear to have a lot more flexibility in making trades, both in terms of payroll and prospects that they’d be willing to part with in the right deal. I wouldn’t bet against the Dodgers right now.
Hmm, if Dempster winds up in DC I might have to stop my “once Stras is shelved everything falls apart” talk…
There’s a lot more to this team than Strasburg, buddy. For example, the ridiculously consistent pitcher with a 2.3 ERA that nobody ever talks about, and the #5 guy with a 3.0 ERA who could be a 2 or 3 on most teams (or an ace for the Royals or Twins)
I stand by my claim that the Nationals cannot get to the NLCS without Strasburg.
why does anyone care the cubs arent going to be good for at least 3 years
Because of the prospects they can get in return, part of the future, and it makes good drama.
Because we now have to watch a rebuilding teams for four years instead of three.
same old news. I dont get this guy. he told cubs staff that he was open to trades to dodgers and braves. then braves come calling and he has to “take time to think about it”. flip flop. Braves would be better off with Delgado working out of the Pen then having this bum on the starting rotation.
Exactly. You should be thinking about it from the all-star break to the deadline, that way when the time comes for you to move teams, you’re ready and planned.
It’s not that hard, I’m sure he could hire someone to do it for him. lol
Take it from his point of view: You have a family, a best friend with the Dodgers, a better playoff position with the Dodgers, so why would he want to go to Atlanta? Also, he ( just like everybody, almost) just got off a 80 game stretch, and he gets a 4 day break. Do you think he’d rather spend time with his family, or decide where he’d rather not be traded?
From what he said, he didn’t say no to going to Atlanta, he just didn’t want to pick then. He wanted to wait a week. That to me shows he doesn’t care to help his new team, he just doesn’t want to think about it right now. If what he said was a lie and he wanted to hold out on the Dodgers, then fine. Atlanta can pick him up for a top 15 prospect then.
He’s giving LAD the time to complete a trade. They should be able to if LAD really wants Dempster. But, he shouldn’t expect ATL to come calling if things don’t work out with LAD. A part of me wants him to go to WSH and us face him for the NL East title. That would be fun beating him.
Optimistically that would be hilarious and awesome, but looking at it the other way, what if he does sign with the gNats and beat us in the post-season when they weren’t even listed as a team he cared for, though it is closer to Canada? I would love for the Braves to trade for him, if not I hope the Cubs keep him, offer him a QO and he denies and goes to Dodgers on an overpay.
Optimistically, there are much better options than Dempster available. I won’t let Dempster change the idea that good young pitching isn’t the best currency in MLB. Delgado could headline a deal for someone better (Dempster is on the decline, already) that is more controllable. If not, he’d be a great 4th starter.
Like who? Josh Johnson isn’t getting traded to the Braves. James Shields is struggling and not necessarily available at a reasonable price. Garza won’t pitch til after the deadline and the Cubs are not going to trade him at a discount. There are no other options available.
Update: Which is why the Braves traded for Paul Maholm.
The “bum” who has the second best ERA in all of baseball. Naw, he wouldn’t be of any help.
ERA is largely irrelevant.
How is only giving up 2.25 runs a game irrelevant? So you’re telling me a team is just as likely to win if they throw a guy on the hill with an ERA of 4.50 instead of Dempster?
because a lot of other things factor into how many ER’s a pitcher gives up… looking at his xFIP, a much better way to evaluate a pitcher’s performance, he’s not a top 30 pitcher this year
Sorry but xFIP is a pretty goofy stat. It is concerned almost entirely with HR rate, which is hardly a complete measure of pitching performance. In fact the best evidence that it means anything useful is that it correlates closely to ERA. The comment that no one stat tells you everything you need to know is the best point made here. This is true not just in baseball, but for anything else in the world that can be measured statistically.
xFIP actually completely ignores HRs.
Not really. It only tries to get to the same HR prediction by other means. According to Fangraphs: “It’s calculated in the same way as FIP, except it replaces a pitcher’s home run total with an estimate of how many home runs they should have allowed.”
ERA is just like any other stat, a tool to be used, not depended upon.
he is MLBs Dwight Howard. sure he has the privilege of shooting down a trade, but if you flat out say “I AM OPEN TO TRADES TO THE BRAVES” and they offer a trade that the Cubs wanted to take, then don’t mull around the decision. Eat your breakfast and pack your bags.
His second half ERA will be 4.5. If he doesnt land on the DL. Watch.
Dwight Howard is a premiere player. That’s quite the compliment to Dempster, albeit an illogical one. And thanks for showing me the future, Miss Cleo.
yea, both divas. anytime.
So your argument ends there? Pretty convincing.
I would like some other team to come in and drive the price up to the dodgers.
Well, why aren’t they?
Adding Dempster would make sense for the Nationals, except that it goes against Rizzo’s motto of adding players at the deadline who will help the Nationals for multiple years, I can’t see Dempster resigning with the Nationals if they acquired him in a trade.
Seems more and more likely Strasburg’s going to be shutdown close to 180 innings, Dempster would fit into his rotation spot for about a handful of starts at the end of the year and if the Nationals make the playoffs a rotation of Zimm, Gio, Dempster, Jackson/Detwiler is pretty solid
Really cheap/good pitchers usually make exceptions to mottos and creeds. Whether Dempster is that, who’s to say.
I really wouldn’t want Dempster to go to the Nats. The way I see it, he has nowhere to go but down in the second half and we’d be giving up prospects for a short-term rental, which, as you said, Rizzo doesn’t like. I’m perfectly fine with Lannan making a few spot starts down the stretch, he’s a solid #5. And he’s good against the Braves so that’s a plus.
I agree 100% Lannan and the current farm is a better value than Dempster for 2-3 months.
I am praying to the baseball gods for Dodgers to take Dempster and Soriano so we can get some pitching prospects
The Dodgers don’t have that many. They’ll probably end up swallowing some huge contracts in exchange for fewer prospects.
That doesn’t make any sense at all. The Cubs are willing to eat all but $2M of Soriano’s remaining contract and all of Dempster’s contract for the sole reason of getting a very sought after pitching prospect(s). They don’t care about eating the money this year and writing it off as a sunk cost.
and the dodgers don’t want to depleat a already weak farm system, cubs dont have many options.
Sure they do…They can hold onto Dempster till season’s end, make him a qualifying offer, then when he turns it down they’ll get a comp pick which would likely be better than whatever lowball offer the Dodgers are trying to pull off. The Dodgers are the ones that need a starting pitcher.
Or they can hold onto him, make him a qualifying offer, then we accepts it because his value will take a big hit with a pick attached to him, they can play this same game again next year!
It’s like a game of Chess!
Except that there will be plenty of contenders willing to offer a two or three year deal to a guy who will be potentially coming off of the best season of his career. He has also made it obvious that he is only willing to be traded to a contender, so it’s likely that he would want to sign with a contender as well. That wouldn’t be the Cubs next year.
Well he has made it clear his first option is he wants to stay with the cubs and he would get about 12 mill if he accepts the qualifying offer, far more than per year he would get on the market.
If the Cubs were to offer him a multi-year deal, then yeah…I’m sure he’d choose the Cubs. But I have a feeling he values long-term security a little more, which is not something the Cubs should offer.
That’s correct, which begs the question of how the Dodgers and Cubs are compatible trading partners.
GAINING MOMENTUM!!!
This just in: talks are between the Dodgers and Cubs are losing momentum.
The Cubs are trying to bend over backwards to get Dempster to the Dodgers, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.
Can you feel the momentum?
In the words of America’s most beloved funnyman, lets “Git R Done”
Hope, if he signs off on a trade, they get his signature notarized and in front of witnesses…
How about Allen Webster Juan RodrÃguez and let’s say US$ 16 MM for Dempster & Soriano…. Seems fair to me….
hahhaha, wonder what dempster is thinking? his vaulted dodgers wont even give up a third rate pitching prospect for him! hahahaha. Thats how much they value you demp.
I’m pretty sure they are trying to give up the least possible. And Dempster is probably thinking he’s going to get what he wanted, a trade to the Dodgers.
If I worked for the Cubs, I wouldn’t give him it. I’d tell him he can go anywhere BUT the Dodgers at this point, because any team could offer much more than the scrub prospects the Dodgers are trying to offer.
Which pretty much explains why you don’t work for the Cubs.
What, you’d trade him to the Dodgers for junk, rather than get a decent pick for him in the offseason?
I’m glad you don’t either.
You said you’d make him stay with the Cubs just for spite. I was responding to that. Now that you bring up draft compensation, I hope you know that this is not guaranteed anymore.
I never said it was out of spite. I said “because any team could offer much more than the scrub prospects the Dodgers are trying to offer.” We’re getting offered garbage by the Dodgers, so I’d tell him he can go anywhere else, because I doubt anyone could make a worse offer.
Spite by any other name is still spite. You make the assumption that the Dodgers are offering garbage. You don’t know who the Dodgers are offering. One thing you can be sure of is that they are likely to be one or two mid-A level players. A draft pick, even assuming the Cubs get one, will be, at most, one player. The results could easily be less valuable than the known quantities offered by the Dodgers. This is what team GMs need to think about, even if fans do not.
It’s nothing in the realm of spite. The Cubs had a good offer with Atlanta, and Dempster said no. The Dodgers were offering a terrible deal, and so the Cubs should tell Dempster no. It’s not about spite, it’s about getting fair compensation for his services.
Was the Cardinals’ decisions to not keep Pujols out of spite? No, it’s because they did not see the deal on the table as a fair one. It’s the same thing here–the Dodgers were likely offering the worst deal of anyone, and that’s why they didn’t get (and shouldn’t have gotten) Dempster. If they had been reasonable with their offers, I wouldn’t mind, but management in L.A. was too busy trying to screw the Cubs to get a fair deal done.
If what the Dodgers was offered was AT ALL decent, a deal likely would have been made, but it wasn’t. I said they should tell Demspter he can’t go to the Dodgers because they were offering crap, not because I was mad at him. I didn’t like what he did, but it was within his rights and I’m not upset because of it.
the poor ole cubs will end up with a bat boy and 2 boxes of balls for dempster and soriano.
How’d that Garza trade work out?
Now the Dodgers are just preying on the Cubs vulnerability. A fan base that expected this to be a franchise-changing trade deadline, and players that have lost significant trade value over the last week. Garza is hurt, Dempster has handcuffed Chicago, and now its the 11th hour and the Dodgers pull anything worthwhile off the table. Very tough reality pill about to be swallowed in Wrigleyville.
Yeah, all of that hype over Epstein and Hoyer was rather unwarranted, in my opinion. I wasn’t all that crazy about getting them, but I had hope. Now they’ve done their best to make worse decisions than Jim Hendry, and it’s succeeding. The Cubs are managing to ruin the trade value of every asset they have.
Is it possible to make a worse decision than him? No, Theo and Co. have done a great job so far just by Almora and Soler.
Jim Hendry got Castro and Baez. Oh, and should we just ignore what Concepcion’s off doing with that sub-5 K/9?
Epstein/Hoyer traded Dempster for Delgado. That’s a fantastic deal. Not much they can do if Dempster wigs out and goes back on his word. Or if Garza gets injured.
Really, Cubs fans are making too big a deal out of this. Garza can still be moved in the offseason. No one was expecting to get that much from Dempster, Maholm, Soto, Soriano, etc.
Dempster could have just said upfront he wouldn’t accept a trade anywhere. It might have made Dempster look like less of a jerk, but the Cubs would be in the same position as they are now.
Epstein and/or Hoyer should have been talking with Dempster while talking with Atlanta. They shouldn’t have made a deal, THEN ask him. They asked before negotiations started, but we don’t know how far in advance. They should have had him on-board before a deal was agreed upon.
Yes, they can trade Garza in the offseason, but that’s a playoff run of trade value that they have lost as a result. Then, if he finsihes poorly, his value drops significantly. To build it back up, they’d have to wait until the summer of 2013 to trade him, when he’s lost the ability to net a draft pick, which would hurt his value. Right now was BY FAR the safest time to trade him. They pretty much need Garza to be ace-like in the second half to save them.
I wasn’t expecting much for Maholm, Soto, or Soriano, no. I wasn’t expecting much for LaHair, either. However, when you talk 5-6 small pieces, you start getting something more out of that. Instead, we’re sitting here just before July 31st, and the Cubs have nothing to show for their efforts.
From just about every account I’ve read from several different sources citing several different people, Dempster told everyone he was on board with going to the Braves, he was kept in the loop the entire time, and for whatever reason simply changed his mind at the last minute.
There is absolutely nothing Epstein or Hoyer can do about that.
I love how these “rumors” get spread now on Twitter
The Cubs won’t trade Dempster to L.A. unless the Cubs get the deal they want.
If Lee, Webster and Reed are off the table, the Cubs should say so is Dempster; now let’s talk Volstadt. .
At this point, the garbage that the Dodgers are willing to offer isn’t worth as much as a compensatory pick. If they can’t get Webster, then there’s no reason moving him for the sake of moving him.
But Dempster might accept arbitration if the Cubs offer it. It has to be like a 12 million offer. Then we get Dempster drama 2013. Give me the medium level prospects over that possibility.
Except we’re not talking about a mid-level prospect. That’s what the Cubs were looking at with Allen Webster, realistically. Now, the last name that we heard tossed around was the awful Josh Lindbloom, and it was said that the Dodgers only wanted to trade prospects who graded out as relievers.
Cubs should just keep him and get the draft pick. If dodgers aren’t going to offer ANYTHING…
Exactly 55…I like how everyone thinks the Dodgers have leverage, but in reality, they can’t act like they don’t care…do they want to play in the playoffs this year, or do they want to watch the Giants play there instead? At some point they will have to offer something tangible to get what they want…if Epstein & Hoyer cave for less than decent prospects, Chicago fans will crush those guys…
How are “talks gaining momentum” if there hasn’t been any recent dialogue between the Dodgers and Cubs?
under the miracle category, I wish we could pull of deals that would get us Aramis, Pence, and Dempster. A guy can dream, ok?
For Cubs fans, the possibility we were going to get a guy like Delgado for Dempster, and even a second lower level prospect thrown in from the Braves, is just making this whole process like slow death. 18 hours left to go. I think many Cubs fans just want it to be over already.
Keep dreaming, the Cubs will get more than you think for Dempster.
Dear Dempster, all you have done for this organization is now forgotten. You are no longer a Cub but just some dude waiting to be a Dodger. What you have done to the Cubs fan for the past week is thoughtless. “I only want to help the team” was your motto until last week. Now, you put the Cubs in a lose-lose situation. Here’s to you Dempster, may you get what you deserve with the Dodgers……. Bad Karma.
Nats should wait until mid August when Kevin Millwood will be availble for only $250,000.