TUESDAY, 1:04pm: The Phillies have halted all trade talk involving Lee, tweets Stark.
MONDAY, 4:06pm: Philadelphia's discussions with Texas about Lee have all but ended, according to ESPN.com's Jayson Stark (via Buster Olney on Twitter). A trade sending Lee back to Texas is "not going to happen," Stark reports (on Twitter). Such a trade would be complicated and may be easier to complete during the offseason. Talks between the Rangers and Phillies never gained momentum, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports writes (Twitter link). The Phillies offered Texas little salary relief.
1:00pm: The Dodgers are not in on Lee, hears Jon Heyman of CBS Sports. The Rangers consider Lee a long shot, while an industry source who spoke to MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan puts the chances at less than one percent.
11:29am: Cliff Lee is in play in trade talks today, tweets ESPN's Buster Olney. Olney considers the Rangers the most logical landing spot, and Joel Sherman of the New York Post names them the frontrunners. Olney says the Yankees are not expected to be in the mix due to lack of budget space. Sherman talked to one executive who expects Lee to be dealt by this month's deadline or in the offseason, to allow the Phillies to save money and add young players. On Friday, Jon Heyman of CBS Sports wrote that the Phillies' lefty would not be traded this month.
Lee, 33, has a 3.95 ERA, 8.5 K/9, 1.8 BB/9, 1.14 HR/9, and 46.7% groundball rate in 118 1/3 innings this year. More flyballs are leaving the yard and hits are dropping in than usual so far for the southpaw. Lee's five-year, $120MM deal with the Phillies was one of the big surprises of the 2010-11 offseason. It's a severely backloaded contract, so $95MM remains through 2015 assuming Lee's 2016 option does not vest. Lee can block trades to all but eight teams. The Rangers and Yankees are among those eight, wrote Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports last Wednesday. At that time, Rosenthal and Morosi wrote that some executives expected the Phillies to consider offers for Lee this month, not long after they locked up Cole Hamels long-term.
Lee has already been involved in four blockbuster trades in his career: as a prospect in June '02 to the Indians, as an ace to the Phillies in July '09, to the Mariners in the 2009-10 offseason, and to the Rangers in July '10.
Gonna be interesting….always is when Cliff Lee is in play
Maybe he regrets signing with Philly yet?
I dont think he regrets signing with them. They were supposed to be very good ( and they were last year) but are having a down season.
They don’t really have the money to fill their needs in the offseason.
… because they signed Cliff Lee for a crazy contract. (not to mention have another $110m locked into 5 other players…)
What happened to Ruben saying he wants to build the team around the 3 Aces?
Not much $ left to build with if you keep those 3.
Think money is secondary to the fact that the Phillies have too many holes and not enough players/prospects to fill them. But trading Cliff might not be good for team morale or fan morale for that matter. Unless they get a kings ransom back.
Nolan and his mancrush on Cliff may just make that possible.
It looks like the Phils could be down to 1 Ace if Lee is moved? Doc looks about 50% of the pitcher that came over from Toronto. I’m a big Lee fan and I would hate to see him traded again. At least if he returns to Texas, he will have a shot to play for a strong contender. The Phils have so many holes to fill(3B, LF, bullpen) that trading Cliff andor Hunter Pence could bring some help.
The problem is three aces taking up over a third (I think?) of the luxury tax limit is pretty unmanageable
Their AAV’s when Hamels starts his next year will be $69M. is 1/3 exactly of their 189M.
If it’s 69 then it’s a little bit more, but 189 itself is above the luxury tax cutoff, right?
Yea sorry, 178M this and next, 2014 it rises 189, but it gets more punitive. Phillies payroll is 173; so it’s 40%
yess – the darkhorse blockbuster shaping up!
Rube’s going crazy with all these trades. After the deadline we might not have have of our roster. Haha
I think Ruben likes trading players for the sake of trading players. He should probably go to a Compulsive Traders Anonymous meeting.
he can join Kenny Williams – meetings are Wed @ six
I heard Ruben can only sleep if he gets a good crying session in.
Crying makes the sad go away.
no tears, only dreams now
where he’ll meet the whole front office of the marlins.
He does seem trigger happy, but he’s got a lot of money tied up to just a few players. He’s gotta tighten his belt somewhere. Cliff Lee would get him a lot of salary room and a lot of young talent. Makes sense to me, but I’m a Texas fan.
I’m actually excited about Amaro doing this. We’ve all seen that same team run on the field for 5 years now, it’s about time for a change. Hopefully I hope the Rangers get Lee because it would be almost impossible for Amaro to screw up with that farm.
Yeah, it seems like a realistic match too. I hear Philly wants a near-MLB ready 3B prospect and some young pitching. Texas has some of the best in the game. Texas wants a SP. Cliff Lee is one of the best in the game.
I think it will hinge on money. Philly will have to pick up a portion of that contract. I think 10-20% will get them a nice package of prospects.
That is not nearly enough money if they want a nice package of prospects. Lee’s salary: 13: 25M 14: 25M 16: 25M 16: 27.5M option (12.5M) Basically is he worth 15M.
Even if the Phillies eat 20% of his contract that is still costing teams 20M per year. He is a good pitcher but will be 34 in a month so they would basically have him till he is 38. If the Phillies eat 10-20% they only would get a fringe prospect at most. They would have to eat at least 40% minimum to get any value.
Trade market just got real.
Fine with me, we can go get someone else suitable next year like Shaun Marcum or Anibal Sanchez who arent cliff lee but more than capable of filling in. Im all for this firesale crap. If we can have a huge chunk of money for next year for free agents while getting the farm system stocked, every philly fan should be happy
Philly fans are never happy, they throw snowballs at Santa for Christ sakes.
Gotta remove the snow from the streets somehow
Lee probably gets much higher offer from Texas but takes a pay cut to play in Philly.
Gets traded to Texas anyway?
Guess that’s one way to get your man, Nolan.
(I’m just assuming that if he does get traded, the Rangers are the most likely destination.)
So much irony. When Lee signed with Philly a year and a half ago, no one saw it coming. Everyone assumed it’d be Texas.
He’d be going into a good situation, but you’ve got to think Cliff would be a little pissed to have signed that deal just to get flipped at the first sign of times getting tough.
Your fair game unless you sign a ntc into your contract. He should know that.
Cannot believe the Phillies would trade their true ace away. It’s like they are traders to their fans.
If they trade him then they are in fact traders.
The true ace is Cole Hamels in tha
It’s like they’re traitors to their fans as well.
So…….Olt + _____ + ______ ?
Olt + Holland + Perez?
I don’t think there’s any way Holland enters that equation.
I can’t see Texas trading Holland, Feliz, or Ogando. They’re making a push to finally win a World Series so trading any of those guys would be counter productive. Leo Martin is a possibility if Philly throws in Pence.
Olt + Perez + Martin for Lee & Pence … make it happen Nolan!!!
that’s actually probably not too far off
prob would have to include Buckel or someone too though
I would not do that at all, that’s a lot of good prospects for Lee who has a huge contract is about to be 34. I was all for bringing back Lee after 2010 but he left and now he’s older and not as good.
The Rangers are going to lose Josh and most likely Napoli in the offseason. If this team doesn’t win the World Series this year (as management has stated is their #1 goal) it may be a while before they have a chance again.
Prospects be damned! For every prospect that has made it to the majors and succeeded I can name 10 that have not. Remember when Thomas Diamond was untouchable? Or how about Drew Meyer? Smoak was supposed to be a stud and where is he? Or how about Ruben Mateo?!? He was untouchable too.
Anytime you can get proven MLB players for prospects you do it. Prospects are nothing better than a crapshoot at best.
I agree with you to an extent. But JD can’t go nuts and overpay. I’d like to get Lee back as much as any Ranger fan, but remember we have Ogando. If Philly won’t kick in some money for Lee’s contract, I wouldn’t gut the farm system for him. Texas could trade much less for someone like Broxton or Betancourt and have a very good #2 starter in Ogando.
Broxton or Betancourt are not winning this team a World Series. Adding to the bullpen is a luxury, and it won’t win squat. Not when the Angels are running out CJ, Weaver, Haren and Greinke. The Rangers must make a move for a top tier SP to even compete with that.
Certainly getting Lee would be better than getting Broxton or Betancourt. No argument there. My point is just that Texas has a lot of flexibility and they don’t necessarily need to overpay to stay ahead of the Angels and be a formidable WS contender.
Would I trade Olt, Perez, Grimm, and Borbon for Lee, Pence, and cash? Probably. But I’d be very careful about giving up too much young talent. Martin and Profar are obviously off the table. Some cash would also have to be included.
If Philly balks and asks for the moon, I’m fine with getting a reliever or two, keeping the big prospects and all the money and putting Ogando and/or Feliz back in the rotation. Texas has options is my only point.
The issue is, without getting a starter the Rangers are left with a starting rotation of Yu, Holland, Harrisson and Oswalt (IF his back can stay healthy which is a big IF) with Feldman (better lately but do you trust him), Ogando (who know how he would react to starting again) or Feliz (not even pitching in rehab right now) as their 4th and 5th starter. To me, the prospect of that is terrifying.
From a Rangers’ perspective, that might be do-able. Texas may not include Martin, but they would include Borbon. It’s a whole lot of talent for Texas to give up, but it might be worth it if Philly picks up a little bit of Lee’s contract. Maybe $10 million?
As a Phils fan I would probably do that… Honestly the most realistic proposal I’ve seen on here
It’s going to cost a lot for the Rangers to get him (and Pence) but as a Rangers fan I do it. Pence helps buffer the loss of Josh next year and Lee is under control for 4 more years. Win-Win situation.
Lee is not “under control”…he’s under contract for a very healthy market value of $22-$25 mil annually.
The whole control thing only matters when it’s below market value. Oddly…you could probably get more for Lee if he were a free agent than if he weren’t owed $90-$100 mil for the next 4 years.
gotta be Olt + Perez + Buckel? I’m sure Leury Garcia will enter the conversation, as will Leonys Martin
martin + Perez
Now Lee I would be willing to give up prospects for!
You dont have any prospects lol
Im sure Lee wont get moved unless the name Jurickson Profar is in the deal.
I think the Phillies are more interested in Olt because of the glaring need at 3B and the lack of them on the market.
You’re crazy. The name Mike Olt will be – Rangers are not moving Profar for anyone.
Profar will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be in a deal
Unless it was for like 6 years of Kershaw. And Elvis would have to be locked up. That’s about the only thing I would ever trade Profar for.
Obviously, if Elvis was locked up and we could get Kershaw, but that wouldn’t happen lol and even then it’d be tough, Profar is so freaking good
never say never. If Jack called and offered Felix around Profar? he’s gone.
dont be so sure, a SS like Profar is incredibly rare
You can move a Profar for a Lee or Felix when you are lucky enough to have a more than capable SS like Elvis already MLB ready. Now that Greinke is with Angels, the Angels have a major pitching edge over the Rangers. The Rangers need another arm.
Elvis will be a FA in two years and loves the Yankees. Oh and his agent is Scott Boras… Elvis won’t be here much longer!
Very interested in seeing the package it takes to get Lee. The Phillies have got to rob the store if they do deal him.
then the phillies are eating almost 100% of his salary.
Shoulda happened last week…. might’ve given the Braves a chance at Greinke…
Dodgers/Cardinals need him because Rangers don’t want to give up like Olt.
we will give up Olt for Lee, JD loves Cliff
Do we know which 8 teams he cant block trades to?
Texas and NYY are definitely two of them.
I don’t believe Texas was one either. Maybe I’m wrong.
Yankees, Braves, Marlins aren’t on the list, but you can count out the last two. Dunno about Texas.
Per 7/21 post by Mike Axisa:
“Cliff Lee does not have the Rangers on his 21-team no-trade list according to Heyman.”
There you go. So Yanks and Texas are in play.
I’m curious to know this as well
Texas, Yankees, Braves, Marlins and Four Others if I recall correctly.
Texas and NYY are 2 of the 8 for sure.
This is Buster Olney getting back at the Phillies for ruining his Hamels to the Dodgers trade rumor he had been milking for months.
Olt + Perez + Martin for Lee & Pence(?) … I think the Rangers still need to find another hitter in this market. Pence, Morneau, CarGo, Upton… SOMEONE!
I hope CarGo, but that’s doubtful
Hasn’t Ruben done enough already? @FanSince09 is already in a coma over the Hammels signing.
It’s Hamels.
Thats the joke. Its kind of a Philly blog running gag.
Like Holliday for Halladay?
@Jim_C11:disqus Far more intentional than that. Fansince09 is a long running troll account that unconditionally hates Cole Hamels, referring to him as Coal Hammels. Its kind of a parody of radio talk show callers. The joke is kind of in the name – FanSince09.
Haha I understand, thanks for clearing that up.
So it’s funny putting an extra letter in a name? That’s quite a dry sense of humor you got there.
Hmmm. Maybe you can see the Red Sox get in on this? They said they wanted an ace and only would move player to get an ace. Cliff Lee is an ace.
While it isn’t impossible, I’d think that any package that brings Cliff Lee to the Red Sox would have to start with Will Middlebrooks, and I don’t see the Red Sox making that move.
I dont think it would HAVE to start with Middlebrooks. Iglesias, Bradley jr, Barnes…maybe two of those and 1 or two lower level prospects would get it done.
Can make this really easy…
NO CHANCE Boston gives Philly *1* of Barnes, Bradly, Middlebrooks for lee and then pays Lee 90m over 3 seasons.
No chance Philly gets any of those 3 in any deal period…
Philly skimmed the 2 low salary seasons from the Lee contract and see no way they can get any team out there to pay an average of nearly 30m over 3 years to give anything, even the lowest of prospects for him, much less pay him.
Ditto Texas. The NYY wouldn’t even bite on that amount. Better go back to the drawing board and get some $$$ out of the reserves, like an average of 15m a season, cause there just isn’t a team out there willing to choke down 30m a year over 3 seasons for ANY SP.
Boston was not looking to move *1* of Barnes/Bogaerts/bradley in a possible Justin Upton deal if it couldn’t be avoided and he is 25YO, why would they for a massively overpaid wrong side of 30YO pitcher?
I never said they would do it, I just said that I believe that’s what it would take to get Lee on the Red Sox. I was purely speculating that they could possibly get into talk but expect the Red Sox to do absolutely nothing at the deadline. If anything, trade shoppach, sweeney, aviles (those type of players) for bullpen help. Shoppach will probably be moved to make way for Lavarnway.
The only way the Red Sox trade Barnes/Bogaerts/Bradley is for King Felix. That’s the only way one of them is traded in my opinion. I just said that is what it would take to get Lee.
Boston has plenty of BP pieces already to move, way, way too many even with Atchisson and Bailey on the DL. They need to find a roster spot soon for Chris Carpenter, Daniel Bard and Mortenson. Mortenson has been one of the best relievers all year, but has been on the AAA shuttle with Tazawa because they both have options. Rich Hill also on the DL and they need to come back.
Most effective BP in the AL (last checked ) since end of April and just too many pieces.
Agree they need to move Sweeney and Shoppach, wouldn’t bother me to move Salty either. Ditto Aviles.
I don’t see any of the “B” prospects going anywhere really. They have enough depth and desirable people in Cecchini, Jacobs, Brentz that on some teams those people would be the guys teams were actually after in all trade talks.
The fact that the Red Sox are only 4 games of the WC without one of their more reliable relievers in Atchison, their big offseason acquisition in Bailey and players like Daniel Bard, Lester, Beckett, Crawford playing subpar baseball this year is beyond me.
Salty is going no where. They have had a man crush on that guy for the longest time and when they finally got him last year, they knew he would do what he is doing this year. He’s been one of the only solid producers (despite his long stretch of sucking) that they have had this year. I only think Shoppach gets moved to make room for Lavarnway who is having a good year this year in the minors. And Aviles might be moved to get Ciriaco the full time job at SS until Iglesias or Bogaerts are ready (a couple of years).
Bogaerts would be very high on their list, but i think HE is the untouchable prospect.
But phillies would want a 3B in return, so it would have to start with middlebrooks
You mean the Phillies would hold up on a stud SS (Rollins is getting pretty old) in Bogaerts, a rising star CF (Victorino might be gone by tuesday) in Bradley as a decent 22 year old SP with a 3.36 ERA in the minors in Barnes for a third baseman? If the Rangers wont trade Olt, I actually think the Red Sox could give one of the best packages for him if they are willing to part with top prospects, which, I dont think they will.
Do you even know if the Red Sox are on the list of 8 teams he can’t block a trade to? I haven’t seen them mentioned as such.
Not to mention how on earth are the Red Sox affording Lee without moving salary. Ownership has been quit adament about trying to keep team payroll in check.
Sox could go get a guy like Headley and then flip him in a deal for Lee. I do think it will take a top-flight 3b for ANYONE to get Lee
I don’t see any team trading for Lee AND giving up significant bundle of prospects. Also, I can see them trading for Lee w/o trying to include Crawford or Beckett in the deal too.
Lee (3/$88 mil to 4/$102 mil ) for Beckett (2/$32 mil) and one of a non-Middlebrooks or Bogaerts prospect.
The market for Lee is SUPER thin so how does Phillie have any leverage when it’s clear they don’t want him and pretty obvious that the Yanks are probably not in the picture. I think it’s either eat a significant about of his salary ($30-$40 mil) and get back market value in prospects or expect one top 50-100 guy and rid themselves of his contract all together.
Who can they trade him too? Texas, Dodgers, Angels….maybe Detroit or B’more?
It’s clear they dont want him!?!?! He’s one of the best pitchers in baseball. His record would be SIGNIFICANTLY better if he actually got some run support. The Phillies have all of the leverage because they don’t HAVE to trade him. It’s going to take prospects to get him. Mike Olt will have to be in the deal, the Red Sox would definitely have to part ways with 2 of their top prospects. There is NO WAY they put Beckett in a deal for Cliff Lee. The Phillies would be retarded to accept a trade that doesn’t have a top prospect or multiple second tier prospects. If you want a dominate lefty, you are going to have to pay for a dominent lefty. He’s a top 10 pitcher in the MLB. His numbers don’t do him justice.
Texas only if they include Olt, Dodgers don’t have a chance, they are trading for Dempster and just got Hanley, Angels wont be in the market for a starting pitcher, Detroit just gave up their best pitching prospect for Sanchez. O’s will only be in there if they give up one of their top pitching prospects.
I don’t think he will get traded, but the Phillies are certainly not going to be trading him if they don’t get huge prospects in return. The man demands that in any trade.
You are missing the writing on the wall sir. I never said they didn’t “LIKE” him or that they didn’t “VALUE” him but clearly, the Hamels signing, their current payroll and the fact that they suck this year and have major flaws in their offense impels Amaro to free up some money to address other issues.
The article clearly states that Amaro is calling other teams and offering Lee shows their desire to move him. The fact that the motivations stems more from salary relief vs dissatisfaction infers that they would be more than happy to accept less in terms of prospects if it meant not having to eat any of his salary.
Trading for a prospect plus a veteran that fills a need helps both sides. It allows the Phillies to add a piece that should help keep them competitive, helps replenish the minor league system and allows the team your trading with to offset some of Lee’s money due.
Please understand that while it’s a sellers market in terms of trading quality starting pitching it’s a BUYERS market when it comes to trading huge salaried players. Add to it the new CBA rules regarding draft pick compensation and teams value prospects a lot more than they did last year. With the bigger market teams like the Yanks, Red Sox and Phillies looking to avoid the luxury tax limit the market for teams willing to accept a 33 yo pitcher earning $25 mil per for the next 3-4 is almost non-existent.
Edit: Let me make this clear. Lee CAN get a top prospect but it just won’t be several of them. I don’t see any reason why a team should ear 100% of his salary AND cough up multiple top prospects.
D’arnaud + Jenkins + Hechavarria.
Then trade Rollins to Oakland for pitching.
however I am assuming that either a) rangers beat this deal or b) toronto’s on lee’s no trade list
I would love to have D’arnaud back in our system. Then Valle could be used as a nice trade chip.
How much of Lee’s Contract is Philly eating? Without atleast $30 mill, there is no way the Jays offer that package. There is still $95 mill left on his contract through 2015.
When Ruben jumps into a pool, he always goes for the canopener. Bigger splash that way.
Ugh. That was terrible and I apologize.
You probably should be put in “Time Out” for that post…..jk
In my defense, stupid and nonsensical jokes are kind of my raison d’etre.
Long may you post!!
If he’s traded, the Dodgers seem like the most logical landing spot. Kershaw and Lee would be one of the best 1-2 punches in baseball.
Except no one knows if the Dodgers are on his list and the Phillies are in love with Mike Olt and the Rangers are looking for starting pitching. So yeah, outside of all those factors I suppose the Dodgers seem like the most logical landing spot…
Do the Dodgers even have the talent to land Lee in a deal?
Thing is, Rangers CAN beat any deal if they want to, it just remains to be seen if they give up Olt
Mike leake, Chris hesley, hitting prospect not named Hamilton or gregous for lee!
LOL
just stick with pierre
Maybe we will get better than a fringe top 100 prospect this time.
If I am Texas I’d send Olt and Perez but would push to send Elvis and keep Profur(sp?) Profur is good enough defensively now and will be better offensively than Elvis as soon as next season.
Profar isn’t being moved. The Phillies love Olt, he will be the centerpiece if this deal goes down.
Neither Profar or Elvis will be traded. If Elvis is traded it won’t be for a year or two. They’re in the WS hunt, they need him. Chances are they keep both of them and move Profar to left field.
Are we assuming the Phillies are eating (at least) half his contract? I can’t figure out why guys like Olney would speculate that Mike Olt would be traded for him with his current contract.
yes
Because the Rangers know that they need to do something to hold off the Angels and compete for a World Series this year. Next year they will lose Hamilton and Napoli – Olt doesn’t help them in the now and the now is what management is concerned with.
Rangers are rich enough to handle the majority of Cliff Lee’s contract. If they are in play for Lee then I could see them taking the majority of the contract and not giving up the important prospects.
You’re crazy if you don’t think this will have to AT LEAST include Olt. Philly is not going to just give away Cliff Lee.
That’s why I said if the Rangers can take the majority of the contract. Why would the Rangers take on say 90%-95% of the salary and give up top prospects?
They aren’t going to trade him just for salary relief. I doubt the Rangers will want him for his full contract either. They weren’t prepared to pay him that amount that far into his career when he was a FA, why would they be now?
Actually, they were prepared to pay him more…he went to Philly for less money.
More money, fewer years though if I remember correctly. I might be mistaken though.
It was more years not more average salary. Also, he was a free agent back then which meant giving up a pick as opposed to having to give up prospects that you’ve seen develop. Not to mention that Lee is two years older and coming off of his worst year since 2007. He will probably break out of whatever is going on but his timing is bad.
I disagree. They are looking to move him because he’s under performing. Amaro would do anything to get from under that contract. He needs money to fix the rest of the team and having $124 mil tied up into Lee, Doc, Hamels, Paps, Howard, Rollins and Utley looks oogly…not ugly….oogly.
It wouldn’t be so bad if you had a productive Howard, Rollins and Utley to carry the offense but having to go out and get MORE offense is where the problem begins.
They’d have to give up at least one or two of their big four (Profar, Olt, Perez, Martin). Though Profar is most likely off the table. Olt and Perez might make sense for both teams.
Olt isn’t going anywhere…
It is absolutely ridiculous how over-hyped Olt is, hes going to be a fine 3rd basemen but I am definitely skeptical in his star potential. I really hope RAJ is not stupid enough to trade an Ace who signed below market value for a 23 year old AA 3rd basemen who will be 24 in less than a month.
Jonathan Sanchez for Cliff Lee.
That was so funny…a couple months ago
Profar or bust
Then it will be bust.
Or you can try and ask for Olt, Martin, or Perez
If Philly insists on Profar, Philly will be keeping Lee. Profar is the #1 prospect in baseball now that Harper and Trout are in the MLB. You don’t trade that for a 33 year-old Ace who is owed $100 million. Especially considering Texas could just trade for a reliever and move Ogando back to the rotation and be just fine.
Pretty sure Profar is just untouchable forever
Profar will go bust and become an untouchable in India.
I want to see him get traded to Texas so, so bad just for the trolling potential. Actually, I’d love to see Texas pull off some Lee/Pence blockbuster thing.
I could do with out Pence ( I dont think he is much better than Murphy ) But Lee would be nice so my Lee jersey is good again.
Full disclosure, I mostly want this to happen because I have an ex who’s a huge Rangers fan who has spouted all sorts of vitriol for Cliff Lee ever since he signed with Philly and I would have so much fun with it.
Don’t compare Pence and Murphy. Please
It seems kind of messed up that the Phillies are trying to trade him again after he took less years and turned down both Texas and NY for them. Now he’s older, settled in Philly and they want to trade him again. As a Ranger fan, I’d love to have Lee back but not for the huge package including Olt that they want even if they pay a lot of the salary. He’s older and declining.
less years, but more money.
I think Texas might be happy to give Philly both Perez and Olt plus two or three lesser prospects (Grimm, Kirkman, Borbon) for Lee and Pence. Philly might need to kick in a little money to make it work, but that might help both teams. Philly gets a elite 3B prospect, a top SP prospect, salary relief, and a couple decent but lesser prospects. Texas gets their Ace back and an insurance option in the OF should Hamilton leave this off season. Nolan Ryan, Jon Daniels, and all Rangers fans love Cliff Lee to death.
Yup. That is exactly what I said earlier. People get waaaaaaaay too hung up on prospects. Prospects bust in the majors far more than they star.
This team needs to win and it needs to win this year. They will lose Hamilton and most likely Napoli next year and they need to focus on winning a World Series this year. Lee and Pence would give them a better shot of that than HOPING that Olt, Perez or anyone else actually pans out in 2-3 years.
Yes. Prospects bust in the majors, but so do mid-30 something pitchers. The difference is that prospect don’t come with price tags of $27.5m per year for the next 3 years. They would be CRAZY to make this deal. Unfortunately for Philly fans, Daniels is one of the best GMs in baseball and won’t touch this while Amaro is one of the worst and owns this mistake (the mistake being the Phils commitments for the next 3+ years).
When you wrote “in than usual”, did you mean ‘more than usual’? I swear I’m not a grammar nazi at all. I probably screwed up 12 things in this comment alone. Cliff Lee would be a good pickup for a lot of teams. He is having a crazy year that is for sure. If you didn’t know anything about him and just read what you saw from his stats and record alone I bet a lot of teams would be a lot more skeptical about trading for him. Who would have thunk it? Then again I just took a second look at his stats and they look pretty darn good. Must be a lack of run support. I believe the cliched ‘change of scenery’ would be good for Mr Lee. Unfortunately there is no way they would trade him to my beloved Braves…Whoever does get him and all the other awesome Philly’s players who get traded owes the Braves a big thank you for making it a sure thing that the Philly’s were sellers with that 3 game sweep….lolol….just kidding………..I don’t know about the rest of you but I am ready for some BIG TIME trades to go down today. This season has been boring when it comes to that…Dam you second wild card….
wow the price for Lee seems ridiculous. He isn’t cheap, making over 20milion a year. I wouldn’t give up top prospects and take on that salary, but I’m no GM. Phillies gotta put in money if they want guys like Zach Lee/Mike Olt types.
It does seem complicated when you consider the money. Texas wouldn’t give up top prospects without getting some salary relief. Philly wouldn’t give up Lee without getting top prospects.
No idea how much money it would take. Maybe 15% of Lee’s contract? 20%?
try 40% to 50%. If the Rangers want to spend $27.5 a year on a staff ace they can get Greinke (who is younger) and not give up any prospects over the winter.
If they really need a pitcher (not sure that they will with Darvish, Harrison, Holland, Ogando, Feliz, Perez) then they can probably resign Lewis to an incentive deal and get a good pitcher for about a 3rd the cost.
I have no idea who would be in on the deal for Lee. The only team I could think of would be the Nationals as they will need someone to be a staff ace when the shut down Strausburg. No Dodgers, Yankees, Boston, Rays, or Angels. Rangers or Baltimore?.
3 lefties in the rotation? I doubt it. even if phillies agree to trade within division, not sure nats would agree to give up prospects within division.
God I pray that Nats don’t. The contract is a major problem.
Bet he wishes he were a Yankee now.
Would be winning alot more.
Buster Onley says Lee is in trade talks which contradicts what Heyman wrote Friday. Then Heyman has to right that a Lee deal is a long shot just to make him feel that he’s right. It’s hard to know what’s really going on since these reporters only care about their egos.
I just read that the last 11 players acquired for Cliff Lee in passed trades have a combined WAR of 0.8 in the majors. Fun.
Half of them where traded away BY Amaro… and the other half were received BY Amaro. Worst GM in baseball, now that Minaya is no longer a GM.
The Phillies owe Lee $87.5m from ’13 to ’15 assuming his option does not kick in. That is $27.5m per year.
Who in the world would trade anything of value for the right to take on that albatross?
If the Rangers gave up Mike Olt and got $40m in cash, I would still think they overpaid. (that would mean they would owe Lee a reasonable $14.5m per year for the next 3 years, but would be without Olt who is a top 10 prospect).
Albatross? See Pujols, A. and Rodriguez, A. if you want an actual reference for “albatross.”
Why all the whining about the Rangers not willing to give up Olt or Profar for Lee? Whether or not either guy is a future HOFamer or a bust won’t ever be Philadelphia’s problem, will it?
Besides, as he is right now, Lee isn’t worth either prospect. Just the truth, even if it hurts.
Absolutely true.
This trade is going to happen now.. Or some big splash considering the rangers are getting blasted by the angels 12-3 right now. No way Jon Daniels just sits there and does nothing after this game..