The Cardinals continue looking for starting pitching depth and the team will consider adding a left-handed reliever, Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports. GM John Mozeliak has suggested a major acquisition is less likely than a modest upgrade, Strauss writes.
Zack Greinke and Cole Hamels probably won’t be traded to St. Louis this year. The Cardinals are unwilling to trade from their MLB roster, but they may be willing to discuss trades for top pitching prospect Shelby Miller for the first time, according to Strauss. Miller, who entered the season as the 8th-best prospect in the game, according to Baseball America, has struggled in 17 starts at Triple-A, posting a 6.17 ERA.
Though second base is a potential area of need for the Cardinals, Strauss suggests the team is likely to focus on making moves to improve the pitching staff. I recently previewed the trade market for starting pitchers and second basemen.
Trying to get Creative here: Would the Cards take Shane Victorino, Chase Utley, and Cole Hamels for Shelby Miller, Allen Craig, and two of their other top prospects? Would the Phils even consider the deal?
I do not even in the slightest think the Cardinals would consider this, granted Hamels would be nice but being unsure if they could return him would be the kicker for that part of the deal. I would take a guess thinking they would rather have craig on their roster than Utley and Victorino, the Cards are extremely deep in the outfield and adding another outfielder would likely only road block Oscar Tavares. Craig is proven so far that he can hit in the Majors why would they want to get older leaving a huge hole at first since Matt Adams has not proven he can play in the Majors.
I agree with your logic. However, if Hamels were to sign an extension with the cards, and that were part of the deal, would it make it more palatable for the cards to trade Craig?
This is certainly creative, but it doesn’t make a lick of sense for the Cardinals. Allen Craig is the presumptive first baseman of the future and arguably the best hitter on the roster. Shelby Miller is one of the better pitching prospects in baseball. The Cards have nowhere to play Victorino without benching Jon Jay (who has been great), and Chase Utley is damaged goods.
Shelby miller for Darwin Barney.
Pffff I cant even say that with a straight face.
David Freese for Tony Campana.
Wainwright for Soriano
Bwahahahaha
If Miller gets dealt. It better be outside of the division and for a pitcher with multiple years of control.
Like Chris Volstad?
If he was outside the division. If miller continues to regress or never lives up to his hype wouldn’t you want to ruff him up even more if he was within your own division.
Hahaha. Yeah one half year of AAA doesn’t remove all the prospects value. Let me rephrase. An impact starting pitcher with multiple years of control.
You deal outside of the division to hedge your bets. If Miller would end up being good, you don’t want to play him each year knowing you dealt him. The Lou Brock deal from the Cubs rings a bell to worst case scenario.
i agree, the guy is 21. Thats like 3 years under the league average. Had he gone to college, he would just now be getting drafted.
He’d just be getting drafted… and probably starting off in high A ball…
It’s not just the half year of looking terrible at AAA… there are some whisperings (growing louder, actually) that he’s go off the field issues and poor mental make up. I’m not sure anyone would view him as a top pitching prospect right now.
You would probably be assuming wrong. His off the field issues happened last year and were hardly whispers…considering the shut him down for stretch.
Off the field issues? According to whom exactly??
I wouldn’t say he’s regressing. He’s on a public no-shake rule, and they’re trying to develop his other pitches. Opposing managers and batters know this.
His ERA reflects that. His K/9 is still over 10.
I really think people are overblowing his season so far. He’s a little young for AAA too, and it’s showing.
That’s why I would love to see the Cubs some how get this guy. We could pay Dempsters contract out 100% for Miller and be extremely glad to do it.
why does the division matter? didnt you see Brett Wallace get traded out of the division only to end up in our division? you cant control that stuff so dont limit your options
The Astros would eat a massive chunk of Wandy’s contract and would even possibly throw something else in. Wandy + Altuve for Miller+Cox+Swagerty. Lunhow knows the Card’s system plus we are leaving the divinsion. Wandy knows the Central, is on contract for a few more years and can eat up innings. As a stros fan i know i want Shelby miller
I would do that in a second. I really like Altuve. Not sure what the Cardinals would do with Wong though.
Not sure why the Astros, a rebuilding team, would trade one of their best pieces for the future in Altuve for Shelby who continues to drop on everyones prospect boards, Cox who completely fell off ever prospect board and Swagerty who was viewed as at most a reliever coming off of TJ this year. I understand with moving Wandy, but I don’t think they would consider moving their 22 year old stud 2nd baseman to the Cards, and theyd at least need Wong
I do not understand how or why everyone drops Miller completely off their boards because of one bad year in AAA. I mean he is trying to develop into a MLB ready pitcher by developing his pitches. Seriously if he was in AA pitching like a high schooler like he was last year and the year before everyone would still be extremely high on him.
A lot of people are concerned with the drop in velocity, his k’s are down and his walks are up. Whats especially troubling is his ridiculous fly ball rate and hes allowed 2 home runs per 9 innings this year. Even the old skip a start to work on mechanics didnt help him this year.
It has nothing to do with his velocity which I have never heard it was down. His problem is he is relying on his fastball all the time. They gave him the no shake rule to have him work on his secondary pitches.
KLaw has had his fastball sitting in the 90-93 range all year and has repeatedly said that his fastball is down. He’s had some bad luck this year, but his park and defensive neutral stats have him as just an average player this season, which isn’t whats been expected of the Cardinals #1 prospect and a Pre-Season top 10 guy.
Once again, for emphasis here, Miller just turned 21! He’s almost 2 years younger than anyone else on his AAA team and he’s playing against 25-28 yr. olds who have tons more experience than him. Just because he’s struggled for 2 months doesn’t mean he’s a bust.
I didn’t say he was a bust, I just said hes facing some major struggles right now and those struggles are leading to him being moved down pretty far on a lot of the midseason prospect rankings
I didn’t say he was a bust, I just said hes facing some major struggles right now and those struggles are leading to him being moved down pretty far on a lot of the midseason prospect rankings
Everyone knows it’s highly unlikely that the Brewers are going to trade anything useful to the Cardinals, right? It would have to be a HUGE haul to keep Melvin from hanging up.
yep but I think STL makes a lot of sense for Grienke in FA
That may be true, but I doubt it, and I don’t think Melvin is going to send him there early.
If the Cardinals want him, I would think they are going to have to wait until the off season. Personally, I don’t see him ending up there then either.
I doubt it would happen also. Greinke was talking smack about Carpenter last post season. But crazier things have happened.
I don’t know. Carp and Edwin Jackson really got into it when Jackson hit him with a pitch when he played for Arizona. Carp almost charged him and was dropping the F bomb all over the place. Then the next year they were pitching side by side in the rotation.
Plus, Carp’s career is probably over.
Carp’s career is never over. The man is Lazarus. Maybe he comes back in a relief role, ala John Smoltz.
How? Beltran has still got two years and if they acquire Grienke they will not have any payroll room to fix the bullpen.The Cardinals need a solid closer because Motte won’t be enough.and a couple of left handed relievers to boot.
Because Beltran, Furcal, and Berkman are all moving on in favor of much cheaper alternatives in the next couple of years in the form of Craig, Taveras, and Wong(he pushes Greene to SS) and Lohse, Westbrook are gone after 2012, Carpenter after 2013.
The Cards have less than 40 million dedicated to the 2014 payroll. A Waino, Greinke, Lynn, Garcia, Miller/Martinez/Jenkins staff in 2014 looks pretty amazing and doable considering that they have a payroll 75million higher than that 2014 40million number.
Melvin’s best friend in basbeall is Walt Jocketty. Melvin is likely still miffed at the Cardinals for multiple reasons, including firing his friend Jocketty.
As it regards Melvin and Mozeliak, it wouldn’t be a matter of hanging up; Melvin wouldn’t even take the call.
because of what happened 6 years ago? Man, adults need to grow up then.
I’m not sure it has much to do with ‘friendship.’ There seems to be reluctance of most every team to deal within their division. The last big deals I remember were between the Cubs and Pirates and that was several front office changes ago.
I just don’t get this logic, if the Cardinals make the best offer, why wouldn’t they want it? Sure it makes the cardinals better temporarily but this year is lost for the brewers anyways. If anything the cardinals seem like they would be taking more risk in a guy like Miller burning them in the future.
I don’t get the logic either. If you’ll check on the Cardinals recent trades, you will notice they are not in the NL Central. It’s something that’s just doesn’t seem to be done-by anyone.
Except if you’re the Indians. They have traded expiring contracts occasionally within the division.
Just trying to get creative here: Would it be possible for the Cards to trade for Victorino, Hamels, and Utley? That would solve their pitching and 2nd Base Issues. The Phillies could receive a package of Allen Craig, Shelby Miller, and two of their other top prospects. Could this ever happen?
no
Get rid of Westbrook and Miller together , maybe that will help get someone a little above average.
Huh? Westbrook has been really good this year and is finishing the last year of his deal. Unless you are a big market team you can’t afford to have a whole rotation full of 1 and 2 starters.
An ok Lefty, sounds like they could be interested in one John Lannan
Would it be possible for the Cards to trade for Victorino, Hamels, and Utley? That would solve their pitching and 2nd Base Issues. The Phillies could receive a package of Allen Craig, Shelby Miller, and two of their other top prospects. Could this ever happen?
No. That is ridiculous. Utley can’t stay healthy, Victorino is no better than Jay, and Hamels is on his last year of his contract. Why would the Cardinals ever consider that trade?
I was just trying to be creative. I’m a Phils fan, and unfortunately, this season appears to be lost. I know St. Louis would be interested in Hamels, to bolster their depleted staff, so just trying to think what they would be interested in giving up to get him. I’m a big Allen Craig fan by the way! 🙂
Everyone in St. Louis is a big Allen Craig fan right now
I find it highly unlikely that the Cards will trade Allen Craig. He’s the long-term replacement at 1B after Berkman retires.
No thanks. Hamels would be the only person of value to the Cardinals and he as well as Victorino are free agents after the season. I would definitely have interest in Hamels but pass on the other two.
what would they do with victorino? Jay is better.
Hopefully the cardinals want Kelly Johnson if they’re lookin for second base help. Jays fans don’t want anything big for him, just a dose of reality that were not going to the playoffs this year.
Miller has struggled, but it is AAA, more importantly the PCL and he dominated AAA last year as a 20yo. To put it in perspective Miller would be a Junior in college this fall had he gone undrafted, if it is a health issue lets hope it gets fixed soon.
Right now if I am the Cards I would look at getting a really effective loogy and a 7th/8th inning RHP Furbush from Seattle take on League’s salary, Perkins from MIN take on Capps, or Thatcher from SD take on Street. Zach Cox or Tyrell Jenkins would likely swing those deals and while Jenkins has huge upside you have to give to get
I definitely think Thatcher is in play. San Diego scouts were in STL for the Marlins series before the AS break and have scouts watching Cardinal players in the high minors, likely AA, this week.
I don’t think the Cardinals are intent on Thatcher alone. I think their targets are either Richard or Volquez plus, maybe Thatcher. I disagree that the Cardinals trade target is Street. He costs too much in salary and the Cardinals don’t need him.
I definitely agree that Cox is the prime trade bait. The Cardinals just drafted three players that play 3B and Cox has Freese and, to some degree, Matt Carpenter ahead of him.
I agree that the Padres would need to eat a lot of the 3.5 owed to street to get value back, that said a starter would make a lot of sense. Maybe they could aim at trading one of Luhnow’s favorites to the Astro’s for Norris or Wandy. My favorite starter to target right now is Brandon Maccarthy as he is a FA at year end.
Agreed. I hope Thatcher is a target. Although I don’t know about either of those two starting pitchers. I’d hope the Cards would track an arm with a better history of success than Richard or Volquez, especially if they’re looking to trade a highly-touted guy like Cox.
What often gets neglected in these discussions is payroll. Next year the Cards have significant raises to Molina, Carpenter, Wainwirght, and a bump for Motte. That will be offset by whatever happens to Lohse, Westbrook, and Berkman.
However, with a Wainwirght extension coming and one, maybe for Lohse, there isn’t a lot of financial give. The payroll is estimated to go to $115M from $111.
That is why I think guys like Volquez and Richard would make sense. Both of these guys eat ennings and the Cards need that. They could then move Lynn or Kelly to the pen, thus helping both areas.
As for Volquez, Yadi (Duncan, Jr.) can help straighten him out.
Honestly, i think this is a move for a more established arm. You guys have lost 2 of your more experienced arms this year. You have young talent in Lynn and Kelly. Wainwright is coming off tommy john (granted he is looking fine).
Waino
Greinke
Hamels
Lynn’
Kelly
Is a stellar staff and a good bullpen if they get a mike adams and alexi ogando and get rid of rzepczynski,and boggs to go with motte,boggs,sanchez,
Richard gives up way too many homeruns playing at Petco. I’d hate to see him in a normal park.
So Grienke and Hamels aren’t coming, but the Cards are now willing to include Miller? For who, ’cause Grienke and Hamels are the only guys who would justify including Miller for. Except not really for Hamels, because it would be way too high a price for a rental you wouldn’t even be getting draft compensation for. The only way I would include Miller is for a trade and sign for Grienke.
Moving Miller at this point would be a classic case of selling low. He isn’t injured and still has all the potential he had as a consensus top-10 prospect last year. He’s getting knocked around in Triple-A at a young age, but he still has an elite K rate. Also, the Cardinals approach with him is questionable at best. They have him on a no shake rule where his pitch sequencing is very predictable. Triple-A batters likely know what’s coming most of the time.
I agree. Carp is incredibly competitive, but also very professional. I don’t know that one misguided comment to the media is going to really affect a future contract situation between Greinke and the Cards. The concern will be what it always is, $ and length of contract.
ok ok ok fine, colon and balfour for miller
How about BMac and Devine with with AJ Cole thrown in?
Ill throw in my Stoumach along with your Colon lets get this deal done
My guess this is a hint to the Cubs and Astros. Eat major contract and we will talk to you about Miller. I see it being more likely to be an attempt at Garza, but Lunhow (Crane) would probably be willing to eat tonnnnsssss of money to get Miller. This just shocks me, i have no clue what to think
In your scenario. Do you see the Cardinals winning a World Series? It would seem that your World Series victory would come in 2013 with an appearance in 2014 and possibly a World Series appearance in 2012.
i mean motte sanchez and marte
The Cardinals need to stick with Shoemaker at 2nd base. Lets hope to get Burkman, Garcia and McCleean back by the end of July. If and big if Sanchez can pull his head out of his butt could be our 7th inning guy. I do not want to risk the future for this year. Next year already looks great and many years to come except at SS in a few years.
You pretty much spelled every Cardinal player’s last name wrong. C’mon
We’ll take Felix Hernandez please.