The Astros and Blue Jays have completed a ten-player trade, the teams announced. The Astros obtain seven players from Toronto: right-hander Francisco Cordero, outfielder Ben Francisco, minor leaguers Joe Musgrove, Asher Wojciechowski, David Rollins and Carlos Perez, and a player to be named. The Astros send left-hander J.A. Happ (pictured) and right-handed relievers Brandon Lyon and David Carpenter to Toronto in the trade.
“Once again we are adding depth to our minor league system with quality young players," GM Jeff Luhnow said in a team press release. "We really feel this will help us moving forward and are extremely excited about the players we’ve added to our organization.”
Cordero and Francisco don't have assurances of staying with the Astros beyond 2012. Cordero, 37, has a 5.77 ERA with 6.8 K/9 and 3.7 BB/9 in 34 1/3 innings this year. He signed a one-year deal with a base salary of $4.5MM before the season. Francisco, 30, earns $1.54MM this year and will be arbitration eligible again this coming offseason. He posted a .240/.296/.380 batting line in Toronto and battled a hamstring injury, so he could be considered a non-tender candidate.
The Blue Jays selected Wojciechowski in the supplementary first round of the 2010 draft. The 23-year-old has a 4.05 ERA with 7.0 K/9 and 2.2 BB/9 in parts of three minor league seasons. He ranked tenth on Baseball America's offseason list of Toronto's best prospects. Musgrove, 19, was a supplementary first round selection of Toronto's in the 2011 draft. The 6'5" right-hander has a 3.31 ERA with 7.4 K/9 and 1.4 BB/9 in 32 2/3 innings over the course of two pro seasons.
Rollins, 22, has a 2.46 ERA with 8.3 K/9 and 3.1 BB/9 in parts of two pro seasons. The Blue Jays selected the left-hander in the 24th round of the 2011 draft. Perez, 21, has a .275/.358/.447 batting line at Class A Lansing this year. The Venezuelan catcher has a career .777 OPS in parts of five minor league seasons.
Lyon, 32, is also on track to hit free agency this coming offseason. The former Blue Jays reliever has a 3.25 ERA with 8.8 K/9 and 2.8 BB/9 in 36 innings with Houston this year. Lyon, who pitched in Toronto from 2001-02, earns $5.5MM this year in the final season of a three-year, $15MM contract.
This marks the second time in three years that Happ has been involved in a midseason trade. The Astros acquired the left-hander from Philadelphia along with current Blue Jays outfielder Anthony Gose for Roy Oswalt in 2010. Happ, 29, has a 4.83 ERA with 8.5 K/9 and 3.4 BB/9 in 104 1/3 innings so far in 2012. He's earning a salary of $2.35MM this year and will remain under team control through 2014.
Carpenter, 27, has a 6.07 ERA with 8.2 K/9 and 4.2 BB/9 in 29 2/3 innings out of the bullpen this year. The right-hander has a strong minor league record: a 2.97 ERA with 9.6 K/9 and 3.5 BB/9 in five seasons.
The Blue Jays announced that they called up Travis Snider. The 24-year-old had a .335/.423/.598 batting line at Triple-A Las Vegas.
Photo courtesy of US Presswire.
Whaaaat
Wow
Didn’t I meet you on Myspace? 😉
JA Happ to join TOR!
Called it.
The first domino falls…
Wow!
P.S. Brandon Lyon is returning to the team that drafted him.
Big trade but not very exciting.
It’s nice to see the Astros get Rollins and Asher. Francisco and Cordero are random choices that I’m not even sure if the Astros could flip. Other than that, I am seeing a pretty lopsided trade where the Jays win.
Musgrove and Asher are really going to make the Jays regret making this trade. Happ is going to be destroyed in the AL east but hopefully we can trade him. This is a pure desperation move by AA since it is basically a non move where we don’t improve the club and we give up valuable guys in the process. I don’t understand how the Jays can be said to ‘win’ this trade at all.
cordero and francisco are both expiring contracts year end. some filler for the mlb roster.
I guess. I just wished they filled it from within. The first three guys in their lineup for the AAA roster are raking right now.
Just want to clarify: the Astros traded their #4 starter, a middle reliever and a 4A bullpen guy. The only way this is a lopsided win is if the plane carrying the Toronto prospects crashes into a mountain on the way to Houston.
Wow! That’s a weird salary dump if I’ve ever seen one. Cordero will be gone at the end of the season. Francisco might return under arbitration. Lyon, Happ, and Carpenter will be folded into a depleted Toronto pitching staff and might be able to help the team stay afloat in the AL East race. Actually, instead of a salary dump from Houston, this looks more like a quantity deal that was made just so both sides can say they’ve tried to improve their clubs.
no jays had to do something with them to free up space on the 40 man roster – as well, cordero will allow houston to trade another reliever if they want.
How are the prospects that the Jays give up?
good prospects but falling down the depth chart….
The acquisition of Francisco Cordero all but means closer Brett Myers will be dealt.
Toronto is able to get a left handed starter in JA Happ but had to give up Asher Wojciechowski and Joe Musgrove to do it. Two very high upside prospect arms.
David Carpenter is a young reliever who will mature and be effective down the line. He was a nice pickup here by AA.
Ben Francisco can be used to platoon in RF with Brian Bogusevic and be a 4th OF for the team.
Trading Brandon Lyon and getting 2 players for him regardless of who they are (Rollins, Perez) is a positive.
I like this deal for the Astros. Luhnow just did a very good job and will now have Musgrove and Asher Wo in the farm which makes the pitching depth that much deeper.
You can forget about Cordero being the closer etc, he is DONE.
Nowhere in my post did I say Francisco is the Astros closer.
He does add veteran insurance though in case they trade Myers.
There is nothing wrong with that.
Yah, i think Meyers will close until they can trade him. I think cordero is insurance for a meyers trade
The Astros first have to be in the lead for someone to at least be in the position to save a game.
Cordero throws a lot of strikes. Like right down the middle. And doesn’t miss any bats. The Jays should have DFA’d him a month ago.
The arms we gave up are not exactly high upside, they were a possibility of a No. 4ish type and a couple of years away. Carlos Perez the catcher actually has some talent, but there are 3 catchers ahead of them in our system. I guess AA wanted a pitcher with some control, and he got that in Happ.
Thanks for this. There was so much HERPDERPBORINGTRADE going on, it’s nice to see some real thoughts.
Good ‘ol AA… never scared to mix it up!! I think most of the other GMs are proceeding with extreme caution because of the new CBA and extra Wild Card. I’m sure Kenny Williams will make another move before it’s all said and done as well.
darn the cards can’t beat up on Happ anymore lol
Haha. Is that the right Carlos Perez??? Click the link. He hasn’t pitched since 2000 and he 41.
No. Catcher with 22 doubles in 71 games at Lansing.
I saw that too and had to do a double-take when I saw he is 41 y/o and hasn’t pitched in a decade! LOL Pretty common name though, so it’s safe to say it is a different, much younger guy.
most boring 10 player trade in history.
I’ll take this kind of boring every time.
Garbage in Garbage Out
Joe Sheehan got it right on Twitter: “The TOR/HOU trade is the most ‘we’re bored and there are no girls around’ trade since I was a teenager playing Strat with my friends.”
Musgrove is a nice projectable arm with good upside, Asher Wojciechowski is probably a decent reliever down the road.
I knew this trade was happening all along, easy one to predict…
I wake up every day thankful for a GM like Luhnow. 3 guys who didn’t have much of a future in HOU for any amount of prospects is fine with me. Even though I don’t know much about these prospects I know TOR has a deep system. Hope they pan out.
He stocked the Cardinals system. He is going to be a very good GM.
This is a really good haul. Perez is was massively blocked by arencebia and d’arnaud. Musgrove is a high ceiling arm drafted last year. Wojo is a top 10 for the blue jays, guy with a good fastball and change up out of college. I dont know anything about Rollins though
rollins has most upside imo of all these players – asher has falling off the depth chart for jays (maybe 20th? now)
Settle down, Perez had 2 or 3 catchers in front of him. Musgrove might be a top 15 Jays pitching prospect. WoJo is repeating A-ball
I think that the Astros get the up on this one due to the young arms we are getting. If they do not work out in the long run it is not like we gave up too much for them. Overall, as an Astros fan I am pleased with this trade.
Wonder who the possibilities for the PtbNL are… Any Toronto fans have any ideas?
Probably a bat from Low A
I’d guess not much… the Rasmus deal had a few PTBNL in it and it ended up just being cash sent to the Cards.
Given what we got back in this trade, hopefully cash.
cash – we gave 100k for carlos v – 50k is the minimum allowed for a ptbnl
Keep an eye on Asher Astros fans, he’s a keeper.
that’s a lot of give nothing/get nothing right there.
Good move for both teams. Houston will love Asher in a few years, but you have to give something to get something. AA did a great job here though. A young, proven starter to fill in to the #3 hole for the rest of this year, and I assume controllable for the future. Lyon will take Coco spot in the pen and do a better job i’m sure. And we get a mid range prospect. Best part though, Fransico and Cordero are gone! Neither got the job done here, and this allows Snider to come up and take over RF while Joey Bats is out, and then platoon with Rajai in left. Last chance Snider, make it a good one!
Great job AA, hope this one works out just like the Rasmus deal last year!
Haap is a proven 3rd starter? LOLLLLLLLLL
Agreed. Astros gave up absolutely nothing here. Sure Luhnow probably has a heavy heart giving up Carpenter, because he was his pet project since St. Louis, but that’s about it. Haap is pricey, unproven, and was ultimately given more than enough time to develop.
more like snider in lf and davis to the bench… gose wont be sitting on the bench while he is up. But yes agreed, good trade by AA – i soooo much rather Happ over Wandy and his silly contract.
I guess this is the one positive thing about being the worst team in baseball – people don’t know enough about your players to make accurate judgements of value. Happ is not a #3 guy on any team. Astros could have DFA’d him last year and the fans would have applauded. This is his best year to date and he’s still a 4/5 guy in what has to be the worst rotation in the NL.
Francisco gone? Bring on Snider!
this is the only excitment for me today..
and not having to see cordero anymore
Once I read 10 players and saw Astros, I for sure thought Wandy was one of them
I’m not sure why people are saying Toronto won this deal, the only piece I want is Lyon, and we gave up 3 good prospects. Happ is going to get destroyed in the AL East, and lets remember Perez who people are not mentioning was pretty much a top 10 talent in our farm system last year and our system was still very deep. The thing I don’t mind tho really is all these guys we traded were well blocked more or less.
I assume we see more trades coming tho cause the team needs more then this.
The key word you used was “prospects”. Prospects are just that… prospects. Let me fire a few names off for you; Eddie Zosky, Vinnie Chulk, Gabe Gross, Josh Phelps… these are all guys who were big time prospects in the Jays organization who never panned out into much… is it POSSIBLE that Asher or Joe will turn into superstars, yes… but it’s also possible that they won’t. Probably MORE likely that they wont statistically speaking. Potential is a wonderful thing, and MLB GM’s make a living off selling it. AA is no different. Is Happ and Lyon a significant upgrade over say Cecil and Cordero? Absolutely. Was it worth two “prospects”. Time will tell… but you know… it could be worse. The big three are not gone. Nor Gose, nor Marisnick, nor TD’a. The real problem is, you cant grade this deal without knowing what the prospects become at the MLB level.
You absolutely can and actually should. Trades are done based on the current value of the players involved (which is an aggregate of how they are playing now and what they are expected to become in the future), and these guys had too much current value to be given up in a trade for JA Happ. They had enough value that they could have been used in a trade for a better player, but now they are gone. You don’t pay $5 for a soda just because you have more money in your wallet.
They are only worth what someone is willing to give for them. Ultimately that is how trades work. Maybe in our eyes they were more valuable than JA Happ et al, but clearly in Luhnow’s eyes, they werent. And really, that’s all there is to it.
Maybe in AA’s eyes there weren’t worth any more than that, but you can’t say that about Lunhow (why would he have given up more for them if he didn’t need to?).
I would just base that assumption on the fact he (Luhnow) agreed to the deal. I dont necessarily disagree with you that it maybe wasn’t the greatest deal for the Jays, nor am I admonishing your perspective, I am just saying that, realistically, projectability isn’t always a good indicator of future performance… although, in retrospect, its the basis for a lot of movement of players, especially in the lower levels. Let’s face it though, TO’s rotation needs some inning eaters, and Happ provides that. I agree with some of the other posters on the thread who say the key to the deal is that a) Cordero is gone, and b) Snider is back in Toronto.
Happ is reportedly going to be used in the bullpen. And projectability (or projected performance) is the only way to put any sort of value on prospects, that’s how it has to work.
the reason why we got happ was if one of their starting pitching option falters, he could step in as the the next guy in line. AA is aware that happ wont do considerably well but he has ok peripherals and should prevent some of the pitching prospects in the organization from being rushed. Carpenter has a good fastball and has a better chance of being a valuable major league player than wojo. All in all, even though it will hurt to see these prospects become good major leaguers, toronto has prospects that will prbably become even better major leaguers and plenty of them.
Bla bla bla….just go away!!
Did I offend somebody? 🙁
Actually Vinny Chulk was acquired in a trade from the Giants for Shea Hillebrand after the alteraction with Gibbons
Vinnie Chulk was sent to the Giants, with Shea, for Jeremy Accardo.
Totally wrong. You can look at the historical data of say all B+ prospects over the past 10 years and find out, statistically, how many panned out. You can then create a value for a B+ prospect.
You are correct in that the Astros may end up being the loser in this trade but all the value metrics point to them being the winners in the end.
Happ had his best game of his career against the Blue Jays. The AL East is so overvalued by fans.
Seriously, stop with the “he had his best game” thing. It’s one freaking game and means absolutely nothing; Armando Gallaraga pitched a ‘perfect’ game and ended up being DFAd in the off season and he’s pitched almost exclusively in the minor leagues since then, one game means nothing.
obviously you’re right, but this does appear to be a bet on happ’s potential. his peripherals have changed pretty dramatically this year: k% up 2, walk % down 3, and most importantly GB% up more than 10
i’m not a happ fan by any means but you can see what they might see in him
Maybe, but they have already said he’s going to the ‘pen, so it doesn’t appear that they even have a lot of faith in him.
ADD: I actually think there’s a pretty reasonable chance his stuff plays up better out of the ‘pen and he can be a decent reliever, but if they view him as a reliever this trade makes even less sense.
I wouldn’t say Happ will get destroyed in the AL East… look at Aaron Laffey, the same kind of pitcher almost the same stuff and Laffey is fairing well right now… not to mention Happ is a guy the Jays liked for awhile now. No he won’t factor too much when you get down too it, but he can’t be any worse than trying anybody else we’ve thrown on the mound this year lol I don’t like him that much and wouldn’t have made this trade, but better than overspending in a trade for Wandy Rodriguez and taking on his contract…
Well, okay. Not an exciting trade, but it’s fascinating to see this many bodies being moved, I guess. I suppose this trade is a win for the Astros. They get a couple of solid arms with good stuff and a decent, if unspectacular catching prospect. Francisco is a non-awful 5th OF type and Coco has had some good years that are probably behind him. For a team looking to unload any excess to bolster a farm system that was for so long exposed to the hand of Ed Wade, they did well enough.
This trade isn’t bad for the Blue Jays, but I don’t see what their big gain is. They get a couple of middle relief types in Lyon and Carpenter. Happ is a pitcher with team control who has had success in the past, so that is a valuable commodity, but he’s been pretty bad for a while now. All in all, who cares?
as the season has progressed Happ has been getting stronger – this fills needs for both clubs . nice win win trade. I trust Jays braintrust, I would not be surprised if they saw something in Happ they think they can adjust and get more consistency from. As well, he is a decent trade trip as well for other players. I doubt AA is done wiot this.
Wait. Did Luhnow just take AA for a ride?
no, this was fair trade for both sides imo. jays prospect depth is deep and none of these guys were surpassing anyone, matter of fact, they were all being slowly passed by others.
It doesn’t matter if they were blocked, or if there were better prospects in the system, it was too much value to give up for a bunch of nothing, and it could have been used in a better trade to get better players, AA got burned.
mediocre prospects for medioce mlb talent – sounds about right to me… maybe your just mad seeing rizzo and reddick performing for other temas? idk? None of the players traded are pegged as MLB top talent and there is a high chance none of them pass anyone ahead of them right now with the probability more so of them being passed on the depth chart. Happ has a few more years of control and if used in the bullpen can fill in for perez, lyons cant be any worst then coco. Carpenter if he figures out his control issues may be the key in this deal. Power arm reliever struggling to find consistency. meanwhile AA gives up nothing of real importance and no one that will be contributing for another 2-3 years at best….
I’m not mad about anything, this trade doesn’t affect me, or the team I am a fan of (other than they get to face Happ a few times a year now, which is pretty nice). It’s just my opinion (and the opinion of multiple talent evaluators) that AA gave up way too much value for players who aren’t really worth anything.
You are definitely underestimating how injury-ravaged the Blue Jays pitching staff. There is no one left who can pitch above replacement level in the organization. The Jays filled a need with this trade as much the Astros did.
Also you are overestimating the value of those prospects to the Jays. Perez is rule 5 elgible this winter (they would lose him). Wojo profiles as a middle reliever. The only one that really has a chance to be special is Musgrove.
They are going to be using Happ in the bullpen though, so even if this was a panic move just to add somebody to the pitching staff, it still doesn’t make sense.
you aren’t a Jays fan so you probably haven’t watched the rotating circus of AAA arms throwing the last month since 3/5 of the rotation (Morrow, Drabek, and Hutch went down) and all the long relievers became starters. 26 guys have pitched for the Jays this year. There is nothing left.
I still don’t see how adding Happ as a reliever helps, and just because you’re desperate doesn’t mean it wasn’t an overpay.
He is going to be in the bullpen until Cecil, Laffey, or Villanueva play themselves out of the role. Cecil seems to be most close to doing that, though he had a decent start last time out against NYA. Stop harping on the reliever aspect of this trade, Happ will start in time. Alvarez has a reasonable chance of being shut down in September as well.
Maybe he does, but the Jays have said he will be a reliever, so that’s the only information we have at this point, anything else is just speculation.
Right, and the information we have is (in Farrell’s paraphrased words) “we will continue to go through the rotation evaluating each turn through, knowing we have another option to turn to if one of the guys in our current rotation falters.” Which, given the quality of our current rotation, could mean a move will happen within the next 2 days.
I don’t comment on Red Sox news as though I have all the information. I would recommend learning more about the Jays’ situations before groping through the nuances of every roster transaction. That being said, I generally enjoy your comments on this forum, despite how harsh that previous statement was.
Even if he’s only going to the bullpen “for now” or if he’s going to be a spot starter or whatever, he’s still less valuable than if he were strictly going to be a starter, and where the talent they gave up was already (at least arguably) too much, having him in the ‘pen for any amount of time simply make it worse.
You are still reading into this 10 player trade too much. This is essentially a 3 for 2 trade with 5 throw-ins. Musgrove, Wojo, and Rollins for Happ and Carpenter. Every other piece has no security with the team they have been traded to. It is a difficult argument to say those three players are “too much” for Happ, an established MLB player and Carpenter, a hard throwing reliever that neither Musgrove, Rollins, nor Wojo will ever be. Even if we suppress Happ’s WAR value as a reliever or spot starter, it is likely that the jays only see the three players they traded away as having that potential. See: Nestor Molina, Zach Stewart, Brett Wallace (PT positional).
Once again, with the extremely bloated Jays scouting and management staff, I’ll take their professional evaluations over Hulet’s or your own. Preseason prospect rankings are a tricky dog, and prospect valuation can change in a hurry.
If you really want to get argumentative here, you could say that arguably, the Jays also “won” this trade simply by removing the Fransisco’s off the roster without going through the politics of releasing them. Bringing talent north of the border is difficult enough as it is, pissing off established veterans is never a great start for future negotiations.
His bullpen stint is temporary
you’re wrong… lol the end.
“lol” you sure told me!
You do realize that none of the prospects AA gave up are any good? And probably have the ceiling of JA Happ at best?
You do realize that that’s simply not true?
Agree with you, but as a NYY fan ill be happy to see happ come in and pitch some batting practice, and for some prospects to leave the east.
The prospects are worth more than what Luhnow gave up.
Uh, it was their No 8, 10 and 11 prospects in their system. I would say that is better than average. did you just pull this out of your rear or something?
How about before acting smart you do a little research and realize scouts had Asher’s stuff declining since college, which is why he is repeating A ball, and heading to a reliever role. And that Musgrove has a shoulder injury and a weak breaking ball that needs alot of work? Stop overvaluing guys who do well in low A and realize what a lottery it is after that to move to the majors.
And most people had these prospects in the top 20 range.
please, several pitchers taken by the Jays in the 2012 draft (stroman, smoral, etc.)would already jump these lower-level ceiling pitching prospects
I don’t know the exact number… but very few prospects ever become anything important.
It doesn’t really matter what they actually become, what matters is their perceived value at the time of the trade, and based on that perceived value they quite likely could have been used to acquire something better than Happ.
I think you overrating prospects that haven’t played higher than High A…
Why does there have to be winners or losers. nobody expects any of these players to be anything but filler
Trades always have winners and losers, and the prospects Houston got have the potential to be more than filler.
they also have the potential to be career minor leaguers…
LOL exactly. bull pen and bench pieces are the ceiling at this point.
That’s not true, Perez has the potential to be an average defensive catcher with an above average bat, Musgrove projects as a #3 and with continued progress with one of his offspeed pitches could be a #2, Wojciechowski has a late inning reliever ceiling, and Rollins is probably a lefty specialist.
Marc Hulet wrote this up at FanGraphs a little bit ago and came to the same conclusion I did.
What you’re saying is not true. Perez is repeating low A ball as his bat has many holes. Musgrove projects as a #3 but has only pitched 8 innings this year and is rumoured to need shoulder surgery. There has been no progress on his secondary pitches. Wojo is being passed on the depth chart, and I’ll take professional evaluation over yours. Rollins is arguably the biggest loss in this trade, but is still a 22 year old in low A walking guys more than 11% of the time.
That’s not my evaluation, that’s the evaluation of Marc Hulet (a scout) at FanGraphs, so take it up with him.
Perez is a decent catching prospect at the very least, and probably should of been kept. It’s not a matter of will all these players become stars it’s more like could they have been used as useful chips in the future.
He is a decent catching prospect that is Rule 5 Draft eligible this offseason, and is at least 7th on the current Jays catching depth chart. If we feel he can be useful in the future, we can draft him in the offseason. You are also overlooking the fact that the Jays need pitching help now and next season. Perez does not help their pitching situation this year or next.
Maybe a short ride, but that’s only if you believe in the prospects they got. They are pretty much inconsequential to the Jays, but a 5th starter in ALE and 2 relievers, is not so super as a return on them…
Maybe no one wanted to trade with AA out of fear they’d look like idiots, so AA had to throw away a trade so that people would talk to him again. (Keeps looking for potential explanations…)
Good trade by Houston. Wow!
Houston’s new GM seems like a guy who will turn that Franchise around. Maybe not for a couple years, but he’s doing a great job so far.
Wow! Luhnow got rid of Happ AND Lyon and got something of value for them! That’s insane! I’m sorry Toronto, but you got duped here. Happ is just horrible. Lyon could be useful, though. Cordero will be gone at the end of the year, and any warm body is better than any Houston outfielder right now, so Francisco is an upgrade. And the Astros get prospects. That’s just nuts. LUHNOW!!!
The Astros didn’t get any premium prospects, but they did get 3 interesting players (Perez, Musgrove, Woj) who have the potential to contribute a lot for the MLB team. In return, the Jays got a decent reliever (Lyon) and a mediocre pitcher to eat innings (Happ) who will likely get shelled in the AL.
Seems like a win for the Astros and a head scratcher for the Jays.
Agreed. Asher Woj is still a massive work in progress. For a guy who’s 23, he should be dominating high A. As for Musgrove and Perez, they are still both at least three years away from contributing. Getting some MLB level pitching for that isn’t a bad haul, but I too am left wondering what the logic is here long-term. I will say this, 2.3 million for Happ through 2014 is the type of control AA salivates over.
I would be pretty shocked if Happ actually made it through 2014 on the MLB team, unless he is able to reinvent himself as an effective reliever.
He’s likely a moving part. I imagine he get’s traded for a team looking for “Major League pitching” in return for an established arm. Packaging a Happ with a high-level and 2-mid level prospects could be enough to net a Garza-esque type pitcher. Regardless, the Jays too need major league pitching as they 1) get healthy and 2) wait for some of their near-ready prospects to turn that final corner before a likely September call-up come roster expansion.
Happ has better numbers in interleague play. He has pitched well against the overrated AL East for his career.
Happ’s career numbers vs AL East teams:
vs BAL: 6 IP, 10 H, 2 ER, 0 HR, 4 BB, 4 K
vs BOS: 12.1 IP, 14 H, 10 ER , 4 HR, 9 BB, 6 K
vs NYY: 6 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 0 HR, 1 BB, 3 K
vs TB: 5 IP, 9 H, 5 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 8 K
either way not nearly big enough of a sample size draw any kind of conclusions from
Happ vs the overrated AL East (minus the Jays because he wont be pitching against them now) in his career:
5.83 ERA, 6.00 FIP, and batters are hitting .325/.398/.558 (.956 OPS, 151 OPS+) against him. Yeah, he’ll be awesome for the Jays.
Your one game you keep quoting, as well as what I just posted, are too small of a sample to draw any conclusions from, but your statement that he has pitched well against the AL East is clearly incorrect.
by the way, when was the last time two franciscos were traded from the same team at the same time?
That is a far more interesting story than this trade is. And no, I am not being sarcastic.
Man if we needed a bad starter I would have much rather have traded some garbage (or Jonathan Sanchez equivalent) and have gotten Jeremy Guthrie since his contribution would be the same as Happ’s. Was really excited about Musgrove, good job Astros; Perez is also a keeper.
Ouch. Why is AA trying to channel is inner Ed Wade?
Really hope this is part of a three team trade
I don’t get this move by the Jays. The gave up 2 recent comp picks for a #5 starter at best who is probably not worth an arbitration offer, a reliever who’s gonna hit FA. and another middle reliever. I just don’t get it from their perspective. At all.
I view this as a very solid trade for the Astros as they are receiving a lot of players who could pan out eventually. As for the Blue Jays, you just gave up quality prospects in return for an okay middle-reliever and a pitcher who will have no business pitching in the American league and much less the East…What’s up with that???
AA is a ninja, dontchaknow?
Maybe he’s the drunken master today?
Don’t know, don’t see how the Blue Jays can win this trade.
Happ pitched his best game of his career at the Rogers Centre. I like this deal for both teams.
Are you kidding me? AJ Burnett pitched one great game at Yankee Stadium does that mean he’s any good? NO!!!
Burnett is good check his 2012 stats
Because he pitched one good game and it happened to be in the Rogers Centre?
Overall, a boring trade. Jays gave up mediocre prospects, Houston gave up mediocre pitching. Jays get to patch up their decimated pitching staff with band-aids, and Houston gets to hope one of the prospects they received turns into a major league player someday.
Francisco Cordero is completely washed up
A solid deal for HOU. Gave up some players who were not going to contribute to the team in the future and got some intriguing prospects in return. They may not be 5 star prospects but like many others have said, it’s nice Luhnow was able to acquire something for the players they sent.
Not really sure why TOR gave up that many people to put Happ in the bullpen, send Carpenter to AAA, and to lose Lyons after the season ends though.
Are they going to put him in the pen? I figured their rotation could use all the warm bodies they could find.
According to Zachary Levine on twitter that’s how they plan to use the new players.
Haha, what a terrible trade for the Blue Jays. JA Happ who is a solid #5 in the NL Central is going to get destroyed in the AL East. He’s a #7 starter in the AL. The only thing they got of any worth is Lyon. Jays prospects may be “falling off” the Jays system, but you forget your system is one of the deepest systems in the league. You guys could have really gotten a real pitcher and a better reliever for what you guys gave up.
the only guy I’m really upset that the Jays gave up is Musgrove.
Like playing “Pass the Trash.”
Four legit prospects (especially Musgrove) for Happ (terrible, overpayed in arbitration), Lyon (mediocre, FA after the season) and Carpenter (inconsistent, converted catcher, easily replaceable). Luhnow just beat AA.
This is defiantly what jays fans were looking for to push them over the top….
Yes, this WILL help the resistance.
Defiantly yours,
A Jays Fan
Didn’t AA try to acquire Happ in the Halladay deal a few years back?
Yeah he did. He was untouchable I believe at that time (of course I use the words loosely as he was obviously not when it came to the Oswalt deal). I think Happ has it in him to be an excellent pitcher. He had a GREAT year with Philly in 2009 going 12-4 with a 2.93ERA. Sure, it was a good Phillies team that helped the record but he ate some innings and had a good K ratio. People are hating on him now since he has had a few lackluster years but I still think he would be a #3 or #4 on the Jays roster if he can find himself again.
Why are people talking smack about J.A. Happ? He’s exactly what Jays fans wanted. A starter with an ERA around 4.00 – 5.00 that is under control for 2 more seasons.
Also, I was listening to Dirk Hayhurt’s radio show at noon and apparently the Jays gave up some decent prospects.
Either way, we aren’t drowning in Lake Ontario… yet.
Click on Carlos Perez, the wrong player was tagged…
Happ couldn’t pitch in the N.L. Central, he’s going to get slaughtered in the A.L. East.
Interesting deal simply because of the sheer number of players involved. My gut feeling though is the Blue Jays got fleeced here. The ML players going to Houston are not what gets me. It’s those 2 in addition to the 4 minor leaguers, plus a PTBNL for an average starting pitcher, a 32-year old reliever, and a minor leaguer. Then again, it could just be a garbage for garbage swap, as others have claimed.
I did not think the Blue Jays would give up ten players for three, I guess they are sellers now.IMO
They didn’t. They gave up 7 for 3.
As a Jays fan: Thank you for taking Cordero off our hands.
The trade is a win-win in my eyes. Astros get a tonne of prospects, Jays get 2 much-needed MLB-caliber arms (David Carpenter looks like a throw-in) and didn’t give up a single top-10 prospect (Wojciechowski has fallen, and I also believe he’s injured right now).
“Didn’t give up a single top-ten prospect”
If he did Anthopolous should have been fired, now, tell me why would you trade 7 young players with potential for a guy who will only pitch half a season for you and another pitcher who hasn’t performed in a weak-hitting division?
And yes, they took Cordero off your hands so that you can have fun with David Carpenter.
I can’t imagine Carpenter will be anywhere near the MLB roster, hence “throw-in.” J.A. Happ is a serviceable 5th man in the rotation who has solid numbers, he just can’t keep the ball in the park.
now tell me why would you trade 7 young players with potential
You are deeply confused. The Jays traded 4 young players, 2 of which have a high enough ceiling to be projectable serviceable MLB players.
Still that does not prove my point wrong; the Blue jays just gave several quality prospects away for pieces which will not be substantial now or in the future.
And the prospects they gave up were so far down the depth chart, they were either not going to make the big league club, or be blocked. I’m not saying you’re wrong per se, just that the Jays traded away minor league filler for needs to just get through this season.
Rough. Looks like AA has jumped the shark with this one.
Jumped the shark? Really? Do you even know what that phrase means?
Jumped the shark. Yes. And yes. Do you know how to make an effective counter-point rather than resorting to cheap mirroring and hollow attempts at patronisation?
Wow.
How AA failed to get either Norris or Lyles from the Astro’s just baffles me – this was such a failed oppurtunity, AA defenitly lost this, i guess he is human afterall.
No way were the Jays getting Norris or Lyles for “fillers”.
Just getting rid of Cordero already makes me happy. Of course, Happ isn’t the best of the pitchers on the trade market, but he’s good enough for now. And Lyon will improve BP depth. My only fear is that the prospects we give up come back to bite us in the future.
I think Houston wins this trade.
Toronto needed a starting arm and get one and the Astros needed to restock the minors after the previous regime threw it all out of a window. Win win for both sides in the short term.
Per John Lott, Happ is going to the bullpen. I’m not totally down on this trade for the Jays. Just puzzled.
Houston “We have a problem…” Astros are now officially Happless…
I just don’t understand the trade, I guess. John Lott of the National Post says Happ is headed for the bullpen initially, so he doesn’t help the starting rotation. Rates a solid “meh” from me. I don’t see the point.
Jays fans immediately assume this is a good trade for them as they drink down the AA Kool Aid
Way to generalize there.
Seems a pretty fair deal for both sides. Blue Jays shaft two players they don’t want and get help with pitching while the Astros help bulk up the farm system. Win-win.
Good trade for the Jays,