6:31pm: Castro is "first on the list of players [the Cubs] won't trade," according to a team that recently spoke to the Cubs, reports Danny Knobler of CBS Sports. Knobler also says the Cubs have told teams that they will cover as much as $45MM of the approximately $48MM remaining on Soriano's contract if the outfielder is moved (Twitter link). At least one team has already expressed interest in Dempster, tweets ESPN's Buster Olney.
1:45pm: The Cubs are letting teams know that nearly every player except Jeff Samardzija is available in trades, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports. Some teams are already calling the 18-32 Cubs about potential deals.
"We're starting to get some early calls now," president of baseball operations Theo Epstein told Nightengale. "There might be fewer sellers than usual and a lot more buyers. This has a chance to help us. We need core players."
Starlin Castro could be obtained for two impact prospects, according to Nightengale. First baseman Bryan LaHair and starters Matt Garza and Ryan Dempster could also be acquired. The Cubs will contribute cash in a deal involving Alfonso Soriano, who earns $18MM per season through 2014.
Though Epstein's longtime team, the Red Sox, hasn't been a seller for years, Chicago GM Jed Hoyer was trading Major Leaguers for prospects as recently as last summer. He acquired Joe Wieland and Robbie Erlin from the Rangers for Mike Adams in 2011 when he was the Padres' GM.
there is no way that castro is traded. this is silly
100% right. Castro is a future MVP — the driving force on that team. You do not trade a young guy like that for “prospects.” You build a team around him. Starlin and Theo will grow old together.
100% correct. You do not move a young talent like Castro for “prospects.” You actually start to rebuild a team around a talent like Castro. How many blue chippers really pan out? Just ask Lastings Milledge. Castro is 22 years old. Methinks he and Theo are going to grow old together.
Castro deal is a go for two quality players any day. I still think someday ihe will be a BIG problem and not just for his many errors. A good 3rd baseman & aNo. 2 or 3 pitcher would be a steal for us. Dempster should go, he is nearing the end of the trail.
i agrea
The Rays should trade back Hak Ju Lee and Chris Archer (and a few more pieces) for Starlin Castro. Probably not going to happen, but that would be funny.
I have my doubts those guys would even come close. They’re got to be looking for a 1-2 punch like Dylan Bundy/Manny Machado or Julio Teheran/Randall Delgado. i wouldn’t accept anything less.
The GM’s who pull the trigger on those deals would be in the unemployed line beside tony reagins
and working for the Cubs the next day
hahaha, Bundy/Machado for Castro. That’s hilarious.
Both of those trade proposals are ridiculous.
While it might sound ludicrous, this is what it would take to pry away Castro. Agree with you
Matt Moore straight up.
Moore for Castro? Why would the Rays ever trade away a top of the rotation guy for a prospect?
Ummmm castro isnt a prospect, he led the NL in hits last year. He is more of a top of the league player.
He is 22 and still very much in development, he is a prospect. Baseball is full of guys who were a flash in the pan. Not saying Castro is, but he still has a lot of development to do.
If he is a top of the league player then why are the Cubs even considering trading him?
Castro is arguably Top 3 shortstop in all of baseball, only 22 yrs old..
Castro is not even close to being one of the top 3 shortstops when it comes to fielding. He needs to become an outfielder and focus on his other skills.
Agreed his defense isn’t great. His offense at the premium position outweighs his defense though.
No doubt he is a fine hitter. I just feel they would get more mileage out of his abilities by finding a different position for him.
He isn’t even the best SS in Chicago…
Seriously?
LMAO wow. April fools was a few months ago!
Facepalm.
Yes even discussing trading Moore for Castro is a big facepalm, starting pitchers are often far more valuable, especially one that is 22 and still has to develop more.
Isn’t Castro someone that you would build around>???
eh, there are a number of people who see him moving to 3B in the future, and his bat would only be so-so there.
Well he can pull an Elvis Andrus and bulk up. If he learns to take a walk or two and starts hitting for power he’ll be even more dangerous. He is 22 so still far off from his prime so no one knows what his ceiling truly is.
True, and it’s not like I’m saying he’s not a good/valuable player, simply that he’s not necessarily the kind of player you’d want to build around because there is the potential that he may end up as a bit of a “tweener” (not enough defense for SS, not enough bat for 3B) in a couple years.
I don’t really think that will end up playing out. Castro is still very young and his defense, while currently shaky, will almost certainly improve as the years go on. For example, Alex Gonzalez, widely considered a top defensive SS, made 27 errors when he was 22 years old. So i’d give him a change before I’d jump to any kind of conclusions…
It’s not about the errors, it’s about range. Most guys add weight as they get older, and he may not have the range for SS once he does.
He’s got a great arm and good range right now…I don’t see how that will change because *maybe* he might gain weight. You can say that about any player.
You really can’t, there are body types that suggest a player will add weight, and body types that suggest a player is already filled out and doesn’t have room to add bulk. Castro has a body that suggests he could add a decent amount of weight and he’s already a borderline defender at SS. If you were talking about a borderline defender who doesn’t have room to add bulk, or a superior defender who does have room to add bulk they could both stick at shortstop, but with a borderline defender who is likely to add bulk there is a reasonable chance that he doesn’t stick there long-term.
But, as I said earlier, his “borderline” defense is probably more a product of his age, not necessarily the defender he will mature into. He hasn’t added the weight yet, nor has he matured into a better defender (though it’s quite likely), so it’s just speculation. The cubs will not move him to 3B he will lose considerable value.
Right, I was never trying to suggest that it was a foregone conclusion that he was going to be moved, only that it was a real possibility, and a player with that kind of question about his future isn’t exactly a player you would want to build a team around.
It’s not like Andrus is far bigger. He is listed at 10lbs more than Castro.
He’s 22, lead the league in hits last year, has 15 stolen bases this year, never hit below .300. #1 He is not moving away from SS for years. #2 He would be a lot higher than “so-so” at 3B. The dude can rake
“The dude” has never had an OBP as high as .350 and doesn’t hit for power. Career OPS of .767 and wRC+ of 103; his bat is the epitome of mediocre.
22 yr old who lead the league in hits already, hasn’t fully developed his power yet. I’ll take the league leader in hits over a .350 OBP. Historically speaking, players improve with power when they are in the show at such an early age. Batting average has increased every year, SLG increased every year. Would you really not want him on your team or think he has peaked??
…and OBP has gone down every year. I don’t care if it’s about a lack of hits or a lack of walks, a sub .350 OBP (.341 career) isn’t good, especially for a guy who doesn’t hit for power (or project to ever hit for much power). It’s passable for a SS because offense at the position is so bad overall, but it’s far from “raking” and wouldn’t be good at all from a 3B (which was the original premise of this conversation).
So you are saying OBP is the absolute? OBP is the sole indicator by which you are judging? If YES, then I have to question why you are using only OBP when at a basic level AVG is increasing, SLG increasing and he has shown to outperform his peers at the age of 22. If you say NO then your logic is invalid because OBP is not an absolute.
His average increasing means absolutely nothing if the percent of time in which he gets on base overall is going down, which is exactly what is happening. And no, I never suggested that OBP was the only important stat, but it is the only stat you were completely ignoring (which was convenient because it’s the one he’s actually gotten worse at), and it actually is the most important (out of AVG, OBP, and SLG).
It’s been suggested that one point of OBP is worth three points of SLG, or according to TangoTiger’s OPSwins it works out to about 2.5 points of SLG, so either way for every 10 points his OBP drops he has to gain 25-30 points of SLG just to even it out, which he hasn’t (hence his wOBA and wRC+ being worse this year despite his AVG and SLG both being up).
You really don’t even need to know any of that though, simply look at his wRC+ of 107 this year (and 103 career, with 100 being average) and it tells you that he is simply a league average hitter, which is fine for a SS, but again it is not, as you suggest, “raking” and it would not be anything better than so-so for a 3B (actually it would be a lot worse than so-so). If you don’t like wRC+ (for whatever reason) you could also look at his OPS (as I have already suggested) or his wOBA and both of those would also tell you that his offense is no better than ‘meh.’
If you want to keep ignoring his OPS, wRC+, wOBA, and OBP that’s your prerogative, but don’t pretend I’m suggesting that OBP is the only stat that matters.
This may sound like repetition of sabermatricians like Jayson Stark, but you are not comparing apples to apples with advanced metrics. There is a philosophical difference in how you are comparing one “advanced” stat to the other as they are not all on equal ground.
First, OBP is not the most important indicator — again you are projecting in absolutes not stating fact. If I were to say SLG is more important than OBP there is no way to prove it. For example, you wrote “It’s been suggested that one point of OBP is worth three points of SLG, or according to TangoTiger’s OPSwins it works out to about 2.5 points of SLG”. Again, this is not scientific when the analysis is theoretical so don’t treat OBP or wRC+ as the end-all-be-all.
Second, I agree with you that OBP is more important than SLG but not AVG. AVG focuses purely on hit quantity while OBP focuses on walks, lack sacrifice bunting, etc. A hit is better than a walk. How much better is a hit than a walk? I do not know since analysis has not been done on that. But there is no disputing a hit creates more than a walk. So if Castro leads the league in hits he will be good at any position. Total hits IS FACT, TangoTigers OPSwins is theory & variable projection.
That is what Jayson Stark, Rob Neyer, Peter Gammons, et al. — professional writers who are the foundation for lots of this analysis — do not like about some “advanced” stats, that it projects as absolutes like you are using when that is not the case.
Castro led the league in hits and did it without leading the league in plate appearances. FACT, not stats projected as absolute that are opinion, are always better. You cannot say he would be an average hitter at 3B.
Analysis has been done on how much more valuable a single is than a walk, they can tell how much production the average single gives vs the average walk vs the average double etc. and they have (in wOBA for example a BB has a coefficient of .72 and a single .90). A single is slightly more valuable than a walk, so if a guy was a true talent .340 hitter (with zero walks) he might be about as valuable as a .280 hitter who walks enough to have a .360 OBP, but Castro isn’t a .340 hitter, he’s a .300-.310 hitter who isn’t even walking enough to carry a .330 OBP at this point.
You’re talking in at least as absolute terms as you say I am – you’re acting like leading the league in hits is the only thing that matters – hitting singles is literally the only thing he does well at the plate.
I would love to continue this convo but am running out of room! What is your email? Or you can go to my blog & write it there if you dont want to share with everyone. My blog is nltheory.tumblr.com
I can expand upon the idea of the “average single” vs “average walk” because that is invalid, and i thought had become passe. A walk is the only static way to get on base as you know it’s minimum & maximum value. A hit, whether single, double,triple or Homer are dynamic in that you do not know the advancement of runners concurrently on base, you only know the placement of the hitter. Anywho, please let me know your email or blog, want to continue this! only
No, his power is mediocre and he needs to learn some patience at the plate. His bat is perfectly fine.
Sorry, I supposed that was unfair to whoever made his bats.
OK, Tigers need to get him, move Peralta to 2B, and we have a chance at the division.
I don’t think you want to move Peralta to 2B, but I’d take Smyly, Oliver, and Castellanos for Castro.
Done! If we had Castro Verlander would have gotten another no no. That ball was a tough play to make, but Castro could have made it.
Yes, I’d do that, and yeah I’d move Peralta to 2B. The 4 we’ve had so far batter .148, .180, .168 and one with just a few games bats .206.
I wonder what it would take to get Starlin. Who needs a shortstop?
Giants would like one! Wish Sabean still had Zack Wheeler to give you 🙁 If Sabean still had Wheeler I would envision a package of Wheeler, Belt or Brown, possibly Hembree would have got it done for Castro. But hindsight is 20/20…
Hector Sanchez and Gary Brown!
Not enough. Check out how Brown is doing this year.
Do you watch baseball or just hate anything Giants? Gary Brown is a top ranked elite 5 tool prospect.
Um yeah I do watch quite a bit of baseball. Brown has no home runs and his hitting .241/.323/.286. PERHAPS his stock is down a bit, thought it’s a small sample size. Perhaps the Cal league had something to do with his numbers last year? Still has quite a bit of trade value of course, but my comment was merely that I didn’t think your offer was sufficient.
P.S. I really like Buster Posey.
I would do Crick, Hembree, Brown, Joseph — whatever it takes! He’s 22 and proven. Very rarely do prospects pan out as projected. Just get the 22 yr old proven SS
I would think the Braves would be interested. And they have several trade chips to boot.
I don’t think the Braves would be interested. They just promoted their shortstop of the future yesterday. They need a young centerfielder for next season more than anything.
Braves would never be in on Castro. They have Simmons and Pastornicky. Simmons just got called to the big leagues. I saw him play extensively last season in Lynchburg. He is a special talent defensively and should serve well with the bat too.
The Phillies will take him!
The Padres do bad. With Hoyer and McLeod knowing the Padres sytem so weel and with the Padre system being one of the better ones in the league, this is the perfect storm. A young nucleus of Alonso, Maybin, Castro and Luebke is a good place to start when trying to rebuild a team. Byrnes you had better be on the phone already.
Good system, but who do the Padres have that qualifies as a top-shelf prospect? Grandal, Erlin, and Liriano are nice, but I would think the Cubs would aim higher.
hoping already that Kasten blocks Colleti from the inevitable 4 prospects for Bryan LaHair trade.
*fingers crossed*
Can any Cubs fans tell me why Castro’s name has been floating around in trade rumors as of late? A 22 year old shortstop who has not hit his prime plus its hard to find a SS who hits like he does. His walk rate is not great but he can flat out hit.
System has a couple really good shortstops, plus they would only trade him if the return were INSANE
There is no logical reason why he should be traded.
Yes I agree but his name has come up the last couple of months so it seems that they are testing the waters to see what type of return they could get and one team wants to overpay this season then they’ll probably pull the trigger.
For example I’m sure if a team like the D*Backs offered Skaggs, Bauer, and Stephen Drew Cubs would jump on that in second not saying the D*Backs would do anything remotely stupid but you never know with GMs now in days.
There is no logical reason that the Cubs would have any intrest in Drew either. He is 29 years old and can’t stay healthy.
and a free agent really soon.
Because he doesn’t fit the Theo way of taking pitches. Nt exactly logical, but I could see Epstein and Hoyer doing it.
can we trade epstein back and get carpenter back what a waste its been getting epstein he wasnt worth it red sox knew what they were dong when they let him go
You are judging a General Manager that has had 50 games under his belt? Real..
For the 1,000,000th time theo
Is the president and Jed is the gm!
How many moves have Epstein and Hoyer made?
Seriously — if the Cubs were that good to begin then there would not have been a President, GM & Manager opening
Single dumbest thing the cubs would do if they trade Castro. He’s playing good defense now, in the top 5 in NL in hits, and is 22 years old. Some people think power will follow with age too. I mean the guy LED the NL in hits last year and was the youngest Cubs All-Star ever! I would hate Epstein and the rest of the front office if he is traded, even if it’s for 2 or 3 good prospects.
Sorryano now has 6 more RBI’s than LaHair. Won’t some AL team take him PLEASE?
They won’t if we keep calling him Sorryano. We’re terrible salesmen.
Step right up and get your power-hitting left fielder! He’s thirty-six and his knees are shot, but boy does he like to do that little hop thingy when he fields a fly ball!
He doesn’t do the hop anymore, and actually hasn’t been that bad on defense this year.
Wow, a large market team trying to dump payroll AND possibly getting rid of building block players.
If it were me, I would keep Samardzija, Garza, Castro and Barney to build around. I would trade LaHair while his stock is high.
As far as Dempster goes, if he doesn’t really want to be traded, I would work it out with him to trade him now and then resign him as a Free Agent this Winter. That way, he has a chance to play for a winner and can go back to the Cubs next year while the Cubs dump his salary and get some young players back.
Please edit your post and take out the part about building around Darwin Barney. That’s ridiculous.
What is wrong with Barney as a building block?
He is 26 years old. He is getting paid $500,000 dollars and he is hitting about .270.
You don’t think the Tigers would LOVE to have a Second Baseman performing as well as Barney?
Do you want Brandon Phillips? Phillips is four years older than Barney, has a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract and is hitting about hte same as Barney.
What do you want? An over the hill guy, who is overpaid and who underperforms? I thought Cubs fans had ENOUGH of that already.
If not Barney then WHO?
Who is better than Barney and costs the same or less? Who is better than Barney and what would it take for the Cubs to either trade for them or sign them as a Free Agent?
I’m pretty sure Theo isn’t planning on “building around” the likes of Darwin Barney. Also, please stop with the Barney/Phillips comparisons.
He’s using batting average as the principal form of comparison while neglecting any other stat. It’s just funny.
Again I will ask, when rebuilding a team, WHO is better than Barney and how much do they make and how much would it cost to trade for them?
As it stands now, the Cubs’ Second Basemen collectively rank 10th out of all 30 teams in MLB as far as OPS goes. With Barney getting most of the playing time, it means he is performing better than half of all Second Basemen in MLB and is getting paid just over league minimum to do so.
As far as Brandon Phillips goes, he plays for a team that thinks themselves contenders, plays in a smaller market and is older than Barney. Yet their management thought he was good enough to deserve a contract extension that will pay him $72.5 million dollars from now until 2017. Is that what YOU want the Cubs to do?
I think Phillips is past his prime, injury prone and will see both his offense and defense decline.
Of course, Cubs fans are USED to players like that (Alfonso Soriano) and look where THAT type of player has gotten them….
Nope, complain about Barney all you like. Then, when he is replaced by a 35 year-old guy making $5 million dollars a year you can complain about hos the old geezer stinks.
Darwin Barney had a wOBA last season of .296. That is awful. Barney’s saving grace is that he is a good defender at 2nd with a UZR of 5.1 last season at 2nd.
Barney’s value going forward to a good team is that of a utility infielder, or at best, an 8 or 9 hitter.
He is not a building block for a franchise.
For a team that hasn’t had a winning record in two years (going on three), has a bloated payroll and that says Starlin Castro is not untouchable, Darwin Barney is just fine at Second Base (especially at $500,000 dollars).
Now, if the Cubs had a winning record, were contending for the Play Offs, had plenty of prospects and money to spend/waste, saw Barney as the weakest link and there was a definite upgrade to be had, then, yes, I could see Barney as an unneeded piece.
However, as it stands now, the Cubs don’t have a winning record, aren’t likely to be contenders for years to come and have glaring weaknesses in many other areas.
I’m not disputing that, but 2nd base should be seen as a problem area.
Does Darwin Barney have a place on this roster in the long term future? Yes, I believe I detailed that in my previous response.
However, if say a Kinsler or Pedroia were to hit the market, Barney would not impede Theo and Co. from pursing them
Right and when are Kinsler and/or Pedroia hitting the market? What market are they hitting, the Free Agent market or the trade market?
If the Free Agent market, how much will it cost to sign them and how long is the contract going to be?
If the trade market, WHAT is it going to cost to get them? Is it going to wreck your teams farm system? If so, for how long?
Once they are signed or traded for, how much MORE is it going to cost to improve the team to contending status?
My point is, the Cubs need a LOT to improve to the point of being a contender. Dumping barney and acquiring Kinsler or Pedroia would help BUT there are still other holes that need to be filled and does your team have the money and talent to fill them? I think not.
So, keep Barney as a useful, competent inexpensive building block and fill OTHER more glaring holes.
Again, I am pretty sure if you Cub’ fans don’t want Barney that the Detroit Tiger’ fans (or probably half of the other teams in MLB) would be happy to take him off of your hands….
Once again, wonderful straw man.
Quit hating on my teams 2B man! Dat Dude is light years ahead of Barney, and where do you get that he is injury prone?
Here is a comparison of Barney versus Phillips with Barney’s stats first.
Games 47 to 44
At Bats 168 to 165
Runs 23 to 26
Hits 46 to 45
Doubles 13 to 6
Triples 2 to 1
Home Runs 3 to 5
RBI’s 15 to 25
Stolen Bases 3 to 1
Batting Average .274 to .273
On Base Percentage .326 to .322
Slugging Percentage .755 to .734
Pay for 2012 $500,000 versus $12,500,000
Tell me, do you really think Brandon Phillips is worth $12 million dollars MORE than Darwin Barney?
Last season, Brandon Phillips was a 6 WAR player, where as Barney was a 2.2 WAR player. Phillips boasted higher averages and aggregates in every significant statistical category by a wide margin.
I’ll take Phillips and it’s not even close.
According to Fangraphs, here are BP’s combined WAR value from his age 26 season (2007); 5.1, 3.3, 3.3, 4.4, 6.0, 0.9.
Last year was Barney’s age 25 season and this is his age 26 season. So far, he has put up WAR numbers of 2.2 and 1.2. Considering most ball players prime offensive years are 26 to 29, Barney is coming into his prime while Phillips is passing it.
This isn’t to mention Phillips is going to get paid $72.5 million dollars from now until 2017.
I read ALL THE TIME how Alfonso Soriano’s contract is stupid and is a burden for the team yet, here you people are complaining about Darwin Barney. If YOU want to blow $72.5 million dollars on Brandon Phillips, go for it.
As for me, I will take Barney over the next four years and then use the extra $60 million dollars to fill in holes and upgrade other areas of the team.
That’s a wonderful straw man; however, the insinuation that Barney is a better player than Phillips is completely outlandish.
Never said he was worth $12 million more.
You just called Barney a “building” block and used things like AVG, runs, at-bats, etc. to bolster your argument. That is not ideal.
Face it, the Cubs are losers and need to be rebuilt. To rebuild, you have to evaluate what you have and what you need.
As I look over the roster, the Cubs have three decent Starting Pitchers in Samardzija, Garza and Dempster so they need two more slots to fill (if the Front Office doesn’t think Wells and Wood aren’t the answer).
Rizzo and Vitters seem to be the First Baseman and Third Baseman, respectively, of the future.
Barney and Castro fill the middle infield spots. That leaves the three Outfield positions, Catcher and Closer to fill (no, I don’t think Soto and Marmol are the answer and Koyie Hill is a waste of a roster spot and has been for a few years).
Finally, for those who don’t think Starlin Castro is the future at Short Stop then move him to Left Field. Defensively, he cant be any worse than Alfonso Soriano and, all things considered, his offense is about the same with the potential to get better (while Soriano’s gets worse).
Barney isn’t someone you build around. But otherwise agree. Though I wouldn’t be surprised to see LaHair end up in right if they dont trade him.
Milwaukee Brewers are in desperate need of a SS since Alex Gonzalez went down for the season with a torn ACL. If they get an indication that Greinke may sign an extension and they get within a couple games of .500 then I’d expect them to go after Castro. Especially since Antanosio stated today that Milwaukee will be buyers at the deadline (albeit it’s only May 31st). SP Thornburg & SP Peralta, possibly SP Jungmann too for Castro. That’s three top 5 prospects. Taylor Green (IF) could also be included.
The Brewers don’t have the farm to pull off a trade for Castro.
That’s why 3-4 (AA) prospects may be in order instead of the 2 (AAA) prospects. Wishful thinking, yes. But I think we’re all smoking oregano if we think the Cubbies are truly considering moving the man.
Garza’s stock has started to drop, so I could see him getting moved first.
The Cubs will ask for the moon and will never get the return they want. This is all talk.
Wonder what it would cost the Red Sox to land get Garza. Probably Lavarnway for starters. No?
If Matt Garza gets traded to the Sox I’m going to lose my mind. the spitting, oh the spitting!
More than I would want them to give up for him. He’s had exactly one great year (a few okay-good ones, but only one great one) and now everyone pretends he’s an ace, and someone is going to give up an ace-worthy package for him I just hope it’s not the Sox.
He’s durable and gets k’s. He’s not an ace, but he’s a solid pitcher.
Solid pitcher is exactly what I would call him too, but people (including people ‘in’ the game) talk and act like he’s a top of the rotation pitcher all of a sudden, and he’s not.
Wil Middlebrooks
Surely you jest.
I thought the same thing. The Sox are so desperate for pitching that they’ll probably trade for dempster or garza and give up middlebrooks only to see Middlebrooks do great and everyone on the sox do nothing (See; Reddick for Bailey, Lowrie for Melancon)
The Cubs might ask for him, but there’s no way the Red Sox even consider making that trade.
What would it take for the jays to get Garza?
The Jays probably are one of the teams that do have some pieces that the Cubs would want. Henderson Alvarez might be a good starting point.
why would the jays trade a current starter for another starter?
thats a pretty miniscule improvement.
It has to be minor league prospects.
I remember the Garza talks this Winter, and Alvarez was a name that was brought up. He is only 22 so he is still a prospect, but definitely the type of player the Cubs would be looking for in a Garza trade. The rumors should be interesting …
that wouldnt make sense from a jays stand point, it barely makes them better
You don’t think Garza is a significant upgrade over Alvarez? I’ve only seen highlight of Alvarez so I cannot speak authoritatively on him
garza is definitely better than alvarez.
but when you factor contract and years of control and the fact that it would be alvarez plus, not straight up.. it really doesn’t make sense from a jays stand point..
alvarez is young, if he can add a good breaking ball he’ll me a good middle of the rotation starter.
Good breakdown, thank you!
Prob Gose to start.
Prospects
darn it
you headed to the big smoke for the series this weekend?
Unfortunately no. You going to catch a game or two?
Drabek V Doubront on Saturday… should be a low scoring game, with no walks.
I’ll be in the outfield in a white shirt that says ‘curveball’
Lawrie.+ Prospects.
for the entire cubs team?
actually still no
Seriously.
Bryan Adams first born child…..
Not a fan of Garza back in the AL East, but always fun throwin out trade ideas I guess. Garza was traded for the Cubs’ 1st (Archer), 4th (HJL), and 10th (Guyer) top BA ranked prospects plus a couple fillers (Chirinos and Fuld) – with Archer, at the time, being the only Top 50 prospect (#27) moving in the deal. So I’m guessing one of Gose/Marisnick, one of Norris/Syndergaard/Sanchez, maybe Deck or Hutch and a couple fillers should be enough.
Garza for Gose, Norris, McGuire and Jenkins?
Seems pretty steep to me for another #2 or 3 starter, but don’t see Hoyer and Epstein taking anything less with Garza’s value being relatively high right now. If AA was going to make this move, he was/he’d be better off signing Edwin Jackson in the offseason and saving the farm.
Rays got more than they should have for Garza.. doesn’t mean that the Cubs will do the same.
Losing gose and Norris will be tough
LoL!! Look at what those players are doing right now: Guyer moved to the 60 day DL… Fuld gonna miss most of the season. 30 yr. old, low ceiling. Chirinos still hurt & couldn’t throw a runner out even when he wasn’t. Career minor leaguer, low ceiling and Mendoza line hitting.
Archer & Lee, the center pieces. Archer still young, 23, but still doesn’t have full command of his pitches & still needs to add a pitch if he’s gonna be a starter in the bigs. Not having a good season at AAA. Could be a solid reliever. H-J Lee, very young, 21, still a couple, 3 years away… struggling at the plate this yr. & last. Error prone, committing 10 errors already at AA this yr. in 228 chances…
Garza pitching pretty decently w/a few hiccups here n there, but otherwise a very good #1 or 2 pitcher. I’d say the Cubs are winning this trade… That’s not even counting Zach Rosscup who was pitching very well at high A ball Daytona last yr. before an injury shut him down. I believe he’s still in extended spring training while he rehabs.
Notice the “at the time” part regarding prospect rankings. Prospect value changes from year to year, and that’s what the Cubs felt Garza was worth at the time of the trade. They’re probably going to at least try to get similar value if they decide to flip him this summer. Hindsight is a nice prospect/trade argument cop-out isn’t it? Also, never a good idea to “LoL!!” people for no good reason, kinda rude.
And “Notice” I wasn’t replying to you… I responded to the guy (Lunchbox) who said “Rays got more than they should have for Garza.” I backed up my angle with facts & I stand by what I said along with the “LoL!!”.
Don’t know how I feel about AA giving up any of the Jays’ top 3 pitching prospects (Norris/Syndergaard/Sanchez?) for another not-an-ace ace, they already have one of those.
On Chicago’s end, starting a rebuild with a Jackson/Gose/Szczur OF would look pretty good on paper.
The cubs want pitching prospects
As frustrating as Castro can be (plate disciplane, defense, maturity) it makes no sense for the Cubs to trade their most talented position player who is cost controlled.
Enjoy it, Cubs fans. Theo Epstein isn’t the genius he’s portrayed as being.
Jed Hoyer is the GM. He seemed to do pretty good in San Diego.
Yeah only 2 titles. Awful.
here is the opposite argument to that: 2004 he added his mark to the team built by Duquette. He did add key contributors, but the team was largely built by He who came before. The 2005 trade for Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell was orchestrated by Jed Hoyer and Ben Cherrington during Theo’s “crazy time”. After that his track record went down hill.
JD Drew
Edgar Rent-a-Wreck
Letting Alex Gonzalez walk. Twice.
Trading for Wily Mo Pena.
Julio Lugo
$100M ($50MM in Salary $50MM in posting fees) for Daisuke
Carl Crawford
The track record after the 2004 season stinks. He is a good executive. I wish him nothing but the best in Chicago and wish the Cubs success (with the exception of their games against the Red Sox) but he isn’t the golden boy genius I saw on a magazine cover walking on water. That’s lake Michigan, and he’s walking on it.
Remember when the Pirates gave the Cubs Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton to the Cubs for Bobby Hill? How about they return the favor! Pirates have not had a solid short stop since Jay Bell in the 90s…also have not had a winning season since Jay Bell in the 90s. Bring Castro to Pittsburgh!
but you guys got Ronny Cedeno 🙂
And he improved the Pittsburgh bar economy. Double bonus!
best avatar ever
Any player is available for the right price. They will never get the prospects they would want for Castro.
Don’t anything else, you’ve screwed up for one day!
Castro might be the one piece that the Cubs still have that is keeping a few butts in the seats. A 22 year old that is averaging 200 hits per year… Lou Brock … anybody?
The pirates should trade tabata, hanrahan, jeff locke, and maybe another prospects
I’m pretty sure a trade to Pittsburgh wouldn’t even be considered without Cole or Taillon going to Chi City.
Yeah, Gerrit Cole!
How articulate!
I wish people calling for Theo’s head would just shut up already. I mean seriously, did you expect a winning team this year already? Geez
Get used to it, we’re seeing the same thing in Queens with Alderson. Some “fans” (luckily its the vocal minority) are calling for his head too, a year and a half into his tenure.
padres and cubs could be a match for castro, we have the prospects some of which were drafted by hoyer of course.
Haha yeah, if the Cashner/Rizzo trade taught us anything, trading Castro to the Padres would probably net all of the Padres top ML and AAA players
I couldn’t agree more. I hope Byrnes is contacting Hoyer as I type.
Also chill out people there is no direct quote saying anything about trading Castro. Everyone and their moms knew the cubs would be sellers Theo is just saying it’s official now.
Cubs will have to blown away with an offer to move Castro, but the idea of trading Castro hints that they are targeting Correa with their 1st rd pick. If Correa falls to them at #6 then why not use Castro to fill multiple holes on the roster. The Cubs do have SS Junior Lake in the minors that could bridge the gap until Correa is ready.
I don’t think that has anything to do with this. The Cubs have a couple of SS prospects in the minors already and Correa projects as more of a 3B anyway.
The Cubs fans who come to every game no matter what deserve much better than their GM trading away a cornerstone player in the toughest position to find quality players for. Unless they get a video game-like offer, they shouldn’t think about moving him.
And boo and chant for the death of a fan…they deserve nothing.
Castro is already a star and is going to be a SUPERSTAR. He plays a premier position, he already has close to 500 career hits at 22 years old. He is under control for a long time. As much as I would LOVE to see him in a Pirates uniform, any less than an offer of Gerrit Cole/Starling Marte/?? would be an insult to Chicago. If the Bucs could get him without giving up Cole, Taillon or Marte, I say do it. Of course, it would never happen.
Im pretty sure Cole can’t even be officially traded yet. I think he could be a player to be named later though
yeah, he can be traded as a PTBNL, and the team would officially take possession of him in august.
2 impact prospects. Taillon and Marte?
How about a trade to the Giants for Hector Sanchez, Gary Brown and Heath Hembree. Major league ready catcher, future CF and Future closer
No.
thank you for the well thought out response.
Seems like I put the same amount of effort in as you did. That’s just an awful offer.
Machado and Bundy aren’t gonna happen. Sorry but some argue Bundy as the top prospect in baseball with Machado being top 15-20. Gary Brown was a top 30-40 prospect and Hector Sanchez has looked like mlb starting catcher at the very least in very limited playing time this year. Not saying the cubs would do it they probably wouldn’t but it’s a MESSAGE BOARD quit acting like you know so much more then everyone else does.
We’re not dealing our franchise player for anything less than a gross overpayment. If you’re not going to do that then fine, we’ll keep our 22 year old shortstop who’s got a great shot a 3000 hits.
A message board where opinions are exchanged. What do you want me to say? Yes to everything you say and coddle you? No. If you can’t take harsh criticism then turn your computer off and go do something else. Especially when you are ASKING for people’s criticism.
i can take criticism but I just prefer a response like the one you just gave me as to why it’s a bad offer as oppose to an insulting “no” response which does nothing to benefit the discussion. Like i said i know the Cubs probably wouldn’t do that trade but it’s a offer i threw out to hopefully start a discussion. In reality the Giants probably don’t have enough in their farm without Zach Wheeler to even get the Cubs on the phone which sucks cause an upgrade at SS is what we really need.
I’m sorry if I ticked you off a little bit, but this whole thing makes me want to put my head through the computer screen.
I’m sure Junior Lake could be had in some sort of deal, though prospect for prospect deals are incredibly uncommon.
Yeah and prospects for prospects isn’t really Sabean’s style i expect a declining stop gap type to compete for ab’s.
and assuming you are a Cubs fan i can only imagine how much this must freak you out it would be like hearing the giants are taking offers on Posey.
Oh yes, but it looks like it’s just been debunked on Twitter, so my heart rate can finally rest.
H Sanchez is the backup catcher. Brown is the future leadoff hitter. Hembree is the future closer. The Giants want to build with the farm system. Hands off those players.
Then there’s no point in talking Castro
It starts and ends at Bundy and Machado. Not that Baltimore would do that.
What? This comment makes no sense.
The Cubs won’t deal Castro for anything short of a gross overpayment. How does that not make sense?
I wouldn’t accept a Taillon/Marte deal if I was Epstein. Taillon hasn’t shown much as a pro yet. Like I said, I would love to see Castro as a Pirate but I’m realistic about what it takes to acquire a player of his talent level/age. If the Pirates were a team that could afford to play fantasy baseball and sign whomever they wanted, then sure. But as small market team that is going to rely on it’s farm system to continue digging out of this 19 year hole, I can’t see them trading 2 or 3 of their top prospects in any deal.
Castro is not worth Taillion and Marte…Would be livid with the Pirates for making that deal. Plus both are VERY close to being on the big league roster, like within a year. But I would do Luis Heredia and Josh Bell. Both of those players fit the Cubs rebuild mold better anyway. 2-3 years estimated arrival time for both of those guys. And if thats not enough, I would include Stetson Allie also.
If the Cubs do move Castro, it makes some sense. Castro is the complete opposite of a player Epstein covets.
LaHair could be a big prize here. I’d put up and offer for him if I’m running a team looking for a potential slugger.
I’d be scared of Lahair seems like the ultimate “buying high” for a 29 year old with not even 1/2 year of mlb ab’s.
There’s a lot of risk involved with him. I’m not sure he’ll fetch much more than an equally risky package.
Would the Cubs be willing to listen to the Dodgers if they were offering a package of Dee Gordon and Nate Eovaldi plus another pitcher from AA?
To get Castro from the Cubs, think of a Herschel Walker type trade; a trade that single handedly rebuilt a franchise.
Gary Brown, Joe Panik and Heath Hembree for Starlin. Seems reasonable for both sides.
No way would the Giants trade those players. The Giants aren’t looking for a ss. Crawford has been hitting and playing great defense lately.
Why would two officials talk to USA Today writers? Who even reads USA Today sports? Nothing about the story makes sense. Why would you have a firesale mid season for a rebuilding club, that
had no expectations this year anyway. Why would we look to deal our best
talent before the all star break when teams buying power and leverage
is at its lowest. Why would you deal recently called up top prospects, and then have to promote guys who should be getting a full year in triple A. Bird in Hand is worth 2 in the bush, the fail rate on prospects is higher than florida students on standardized tests, why would we trade relatively young performing players for prospects. (sori excluded)
Lahair isn’t exactly young (29) and if the cubs can get someone desperate for a power hitter to overpay that’s a smart baseball decision.
Trading Castro however makes 0 sense to me as he attracts fans and is only 22 years old. Seems like a player to build around if your a rebuilding team.
people who stay in hotels or travel through airports read USA Today
I wish the Tigers would pursue him. They have the prospects in my opinion and they need to do something about their middle infielders. He’s a SS and they need a 2B, and it is unlikely, but can’t a fan dream?
Castro….really….his all star jersey was second best seller to his playing jersey…..Epstein the best….I see bait-n-switch….other GM’s beware…
Starlin Castro & Bryan LeHair to the Pirates for Luis Heredia, Stetson Allie, Josh Bell, Colton Cain, Zach Dodson, & Zack Von Rosenberg
OR
Castro for Heredia,, Bell, & 1 of Cain, Dodson, or Von Rosenberg
Yeah they will trade Castro for the equivalent of a huge overpay for EXAMPLE if the Cardinals offered Lynn and Shelby Miller for him (Which should never happen). Dempster is as good as gone though, so many teams could use him. Marmol will be gone if he can reestablish any value. I expect Garza is 50-50 depending on the extension. Even then it might be hard dealing him, most teams will likely want Dempster because he will come cheaper in prospects. Doubt Soriano is moved. I think Barney is gone too, he doesn’t have huge potential but hes solid enough to help someone and make a team slightly overpay.
Ryan Demster for Mike Minor and Tyler Pastornicky(he can play 2B, or SS and move Castro to 3B)
Castro isn’t going anywhere.
Even if the Cubs are offered 2-3 impact prospects-
You don’t trade away your franchise player, especially when he plays a premium position.
Try and extend Garza, but if a great deal comes along…Got to pull the trigger.
Honestly, I’d say the same thing about Samardzjia.
Everyone SHOULD be traded. This team needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.
What can I get for $25?
Casey Coleman , Darwin Barney to the Rays for Enny Romero , Reid Brignac , and a PTBNL
Castro to Sox as part of a Youk deal? Hysterical, absurd, but hysterical.
I am in total disagreement with Eptein’s premise that every Cub is available. I would agree that Soriano is definitely the first ONE to be offered no matter the price $$$.
There are three Cubs starters that should not be touched: Castro, Barney and LaHair. Yes, Samardzija is a keeper for the new Cubs rotation for 2013. Garza and Demspster are trade bait for a front-line player-LF CF 3B or catcher.
Epstein does not need to blow up the Cubs.
Diehard Ed
If you check the records you will see that he has dramatically improved in that area since April.I am content with his fielding and I did not used to be.He evidently has been working on that.He is a keeper.If these prospects that you want are so good,why are they not in the majors?
some of you guys are so clueless… he’s 22. TWENTY-TWO. He has shown that he has one of the best hitting tools in all of baseball already. There’s only 17 players since 1900 – yes, the last 112 years – with a .305 average or better with at least 1400 plate appearances before the age of 23… and that list is littered with HOFers.
And oh by the way, his defensive has been solid this year after his errors early on – he’s actually trending above average in both UZR & TZR. Here’s my obligatory mention that guys like Jeter & Ozzie Smith had more errors in the minors than Castro did last year at the majors at the same age.
this guy is developing power, utilizing his speed on the bases, improving defensively, and has one of the best hit tools in baseball…. and he’s still 22. the only thing to knock him for is his lack of walks… yet he’s still producing an above average OBP because he carries such a high average.