The AL East figures to be one of the game's most competitive divisions in 2012. Here are the latest links from Florida, where all five AL East teams are preparing for the season…
- Raul Ibanez doesn’t have emotional, historical or financial ties keeping him on the Yankees’ roster, so Joel Sherman of the New York Post wonders how long the club will stick with Ibanez if his struggles continue. But as Sherman point out, it’s still just March 15th.
- Yankees GM Brian Cashman and third baseman Alex Rodriguez tell Joel Sherman of the New York Post that the Blue Jays are becoming a serious threat in the AL East. “They aren’t a secret anymore,” Rodriguez said. “They are knocking on the door,” Cashman added. “It is undeniable that they are going to win and win for a while.” Blue Jays ownership could support a top ten payroll in time and “that isn’t a guess, that’s a fact,” GM Alex Anthopoulos said.
- John Tomase of the Boston Herald reports that the relationship between Red Sox GM Ben Cherington and manager Bobby Valentine seems to be starting off well. If the Red Sox name Jose Iglesias their starting shortstop, it'll be a sign of just how much Valentine's opinion matters. The front office has maintained the defensive whiz needs more seasoning.
- Mark Melancon's interleague experience could help him transition from the NL Central to the AL East, Brian MacPherson Providence Journal writes.
- Steve Melewski of MASNsports.com ranks the AL East rotations, placing the Orioles fifth. They have intriguing arms such as Zach Britton and Jake Arrieta, but their rotation is filled with uncertainty from top to bottom this spring.
They left out the comment where Alex and Brian compare the potential for the Blue Jays “top ten” payroll to the Yankees “top one.”
It all evens out with A-Rod and Jeter eating 40+ mill while playing replacement level.
Bullet #3 is completely useless (no offense), considering how Melancon will be playing in the AL far before interleague play begins.
Interleague play is now year round. It’s no longer a set period.
I’m pretty sure that year-round interleague play doesn’t begin until the Astros
move to the American League West in 2013.
Yeah, I was going to say since when?
I have my Blue Jays tickets to watch Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays. There is going to be a lot of good baseball to watch this summer.
The talk about the Blue Jays being able to compete for wild cards soon is just silly, because soon enough I see them being one of the best teams in baseball and winning division championships. They have a farm system LOADED with elite talent, have added a lot of talent to the major league roster for pennies, and they haven’t even begun to tap into their financial resources yet. They’re going to be the same type of powerhouse they were in the late 80s – early 90s.
you have to crawl before you can walk and I think that’s the point of the conversation. Great farm doesn’t always = mlb wins. Snider and Drabek are great examples of how can’t miss prospects can struggle their first couple of years and those two may or may not ever make it as top mlb’ers.
Agreed but with the sheer number of high-ceiling pitchers in the Jays farm system you have to assume that a few will pan out.
I remember a few weeks ago somebody saying “most teams are happy to have one lottery pick, the Jays have 7”. Can’t remember who but it was a respected and credible journalist.
It’s not like the Blue Jays have no talent in the majors and this is a repeat of how the Orioles top pitching prospects were supposed to give them a championship rotation. Toronto is in a situation in which their farm system isn’t going to build a team from scratch, it is going to supplement a roster that already has Bautista, Lawrie, Escobar, Romero, Santos, Morrow, and Rasmus on it.
Who the heck said the Orioles top pitching prospects were going to give them championship rotation? Their team for the past few years, despite getting early draft picks, still did not have a great farm system and for quite some time still ranked even below the Yankees.
Because of MONEY. In the old system money could buy a team as well as a farm system. It’s going to be much tougher to build a farm team like that with the new slot restrictions and the cap on international free agents.
Huh? How does Because of Money answer this question: “Who the heck said the Orioles top pitching prospects were going to give them championship rotation?”
If you’re talking about their weak farm, get a note of this.
They’ve had 17 first round draft picks since 1999 draft. Of the 14 drafted from 1999-2008, only 9 of them have stepped foot on a major league baseball field.
Of the 9 who played baseball
Keith Reed – 6 career games played
Larry Bigbie- Only 1 full time year and only 392 career games played.
Mike Fontinent- Nothing great
Chris Smith- 67 career IP
Adam Loewen- Still plays but only 67 career games
Brandon Snieder- 16 career games and has proven nothing
The only 2 who have proven something are Markakis and Weiters. The other player is Brian Matusz.
So no, it’s not becuase of the money. It’s horrible ownership and for the most part horrible scouting.
There were a few sandwich picks too: BRob, Garret Olsen, but yea this is a big piece of the puzzle.
The other piece is a horrible approach to free agency, holding onto executives who aren’t good at their job (because they are “Angelos guys”), 0 international presence, and the worst spring training facility in the major leagues (which has since changed).
With all of that said, MetsMagic who said “the way the Orioles top pitching prospects were supposed to give them a championship rotation” is just wrong. No one upon no one said that. If that poster had a pulse on Baltimore sports at all, he would have known that the consensus was in Baltimore, if even one of the big three (Arrieta, Tillman, Matusz) were to hit and become a star, we’d be really lucky based on odds. Just flat out wrong.
Good post. Like always man, I’m not purposely trying to dis your team, and at least you can admit your ownership sucks and is one of the worst in sports. Before Huntington and company came along for the Pirates, I would have said they still remain the worst. For now, I’d say they passed the O’s (Again, no offense)
Didn’t take that as a diss at all. Totally feel free to criticize, I’m not sensitive. You are one of the best posters on this board, so I want to hear what you have to say.
Thanks, appreciate it. Same for you.
Orioles have had money for a long time, Angelos has a lot of it. He just is way too stubborn to ever understand how to spend it.
If the new way is to spend more on major and minor league scouts because of spending restrictions, you can guarantee that Angelos won’t pay for it.
There was one writer on at least one site who was ecstatic about how their rotation would be with Lowen, Matusz, Tillman and on and on. It might have been Kevin Goldstein, I don’t know.
I probably could’ve picked a better example like the 1996 Mets, but they found themselves in contention for the next half decade because of the overall strength of their farm at that period, so that might not have worked.
“Mark Melancon’s interleague experience could help him transition from the NL Central to the AL East, Brian MacPherson Providence Journal writes.”
Career against AL teams – 5.40 ERA in 25 innings. Might not seem like a lot of innings but that’s almost half a season for a relief pitcher.
mets magic you r so right they have all the tools to compete in the hardest division in baseball,with the yanks and sox getting older in next 5 years it will be jays and rays competing for al east division for years to come.
The Yankees only have 3 full time players above the age of 35, all 3 are above average players, 1 is still the greatest at his role, and 2 of the 3 both will be gone within 2 or 3 years.
Red Sox have a lot of young players too.
I’m not saying the Rays and Jays won’t compete for the division however.
I love how 35 is the definition of OLD. They still have a roster for of “older” players. Players that are not getting better but will be declining. I think that was the point. And those 3 players are were a HUGE chunk of the Yankees success….I wonder what the Yankees record is last year with 25 blown saves.
I learned nothing from this except a John Madden like comment saying “players that are not getting better but will be declining”
I didn’t know time only applied to the Redsox and Yankees. That’s unfortunate.
Interesting how Melewski ranks the Sox rotation ahead of the Yankees. Based on recent years I might even say Kuroda has been just as good as Beckett, and CC > Lester. And the Red Sox 4 and 5 starters have not proven anything.
The big thing is if one of the Red Sox 4 or 5 fails then they have another one to replace them. The Yankees are a bit thin after Hughes and Garcia with really nobody with ML experience to step up if they get hurt or underperform. Notice I didn’t say they were great options, just ones with major league experience. And if they do go with home grown then they also have Tazawa who is pitching well this spring and has ML experience and Doubront who shut down the Yankees on Tuesday. Not saying they are world beaters, just a greater depth than the Yankees who would have to rely on rookies.
But the Red Sox replacement pitchers (Padilla and Cook) are nothing special. You’re seriously using Doubront’s spring training start to compare stats? Tazawa? Very little experience in the MLB and was ineffective when he came up. His minor league numbers look good but he has made many more relief appearances than starts so I don’t know his split stats for them.
I’m going based on the rotation he listed when he put Bard and Aceves, I don’t know if Aceves is correct though. Many said it was Padilla and Cook and possibly Doubront or Miller competing, but it could be Aceves.
Yes I did see you put they are not world beaters, but I don’t think greater depth is the correct term. I think it would be better to say which team is weaker on depth as oppoesd to which team is better. It’s like comparing Burnett and Lackey to one another.
Honestly, I have no idea what your point is. You are correct in that the Yanks depth after CC/Kuroda/Pineda/Nova isn’t great but whose #5, #6 and #7 options are ever mlb quality pitchers? After those 4 you have the loser of the Hughes vs Garcia #5 spot battle as well as 5 mlb/near mlb ready pitchers at AAA in Betances, Banuelos and three young guys who pitched all of 2011 at AAA and are basically blocked in Warren, Phelps and Mitchell. Add Joba as a mid-season call up wildcard once he rehabs and the Yanks have options.
First, who are the Sox top 4 again? Beckett, Lester, Bucs and either Bard/Aceves?
The Sox might have their version of the Yanks 2011 collection of Garcia/Colon in Padilla and Cook but that’s certainly not “dependable” depth considering their 2011 season.
Doubront, Bowden and Tazawa have yet to really distinguish themselves as any better than any of the 5 Yanks guys mentioned that will be at AAA so I don’t see the better depth that you refer to.
Also, I think that from 1-5 the Yanks starters might be better in terms of talent overall (as opposed to #2 vs #2, #3 vs #3, etc) than the Sox 1-5 since your #4 appears to be one of Bard/Aceves and then a “battle royal” for the #5 spot. Just saying, the Yanks rotation looks a lot more focused right now. I don’t think there’s as steep of a falloff in terms of talent from the #3 guy (Kuroda/Pineda) to that of Nova or Hughes vs the falloff in terms of SP from Buch to Bard/Aceves/?????/.
That all sounds fine except when you include that Kuroda is coming from a pitchers park in LA with much, much weaker hitters than the AL East with smaller parks and DH’s instead of .095 hitting pitchers. Also Pineda is coming from a home park which was much bigger and his road ERA is 4.40 and his second half ERA is 5.12 and is again facing more AL East hitters and still has to experience the sophomore slump. Compare those two vs the Red Sox 2-3(whoever you want to put 2 either Beckett or Lester) who have both faced DH’s and AL East offences and who are both established and both have excelled against them.
If you factor in that and realize that CC, while better, is not significantly better than Lester, then the difference between the two staffs is not great.
And we pretty much know that Bard will be 4 and he has experience pitching in the AL and has 4 pitches, the only real problem he faces is innnings count which Hughes and probably Pineda will face too. The number 5 will be Padilla and while not great, could be just as effective as Garcia. Who is not more than a 4.50ERA 1.5 WHIP guy which Padilla is more than capable of.
Both staffs will be top of the AL but I think the potential of the Sox having 3 Aces at the top pretty much makes it better.
Buchholz has had 1 effective season. Yes he has ace potential but so does Pineda. Right now neither of them are there yet. That’s why I said those 2 are a toss up at the #3 spots
CC/Lester – Close to even, maybe slight edge to CC
Kuroda/Beckett – Slight edge to Beckett despite Kuroda putting up betters numbers when combining the past few years, but Beckett due to experience
Buccholz/Pineda – Push
Nova/Bard – Nova due to now having experience, but of course Bard has potential too
Hughes/Garcia to Aceves/Doubrant – Slight edge to Hughes/Garcia again due to experience.
Overall as I said, I’d give the Yankees a slight edge. Nothing by a wide margin.
And as I mentioned in regards to Kuroda, he pitched well against some good offensive NL clubs, and his numbers Away were better than at home.
Bard has 4 pitches. That’s the extent of what you have to say about him as a starter? Ok.
My point wasn’t a #1 vs #1, #2 vs #2 comparison. What I meant was that the Yanks have more depth of talent from #1-#6 where as the Sox have a good #1-#3 but everyone else from Bard/Aceves and anyone else are really questionable in terms of their competency as mlb starters (talent + durability).
It amazes me how “Sox fan” talks as if Bard’s success as a starter is a forgone conclusion. At best, he’s a question mark and he’s your #4 guy. And I’m NOT saying that with any smugness intended. That would be the equivalent of saying Joba as a reliever in 2007 has 3 or 4 pitches and that he would be a success as a #4 (although he really was. His perceived failure was based off of high expectations).
I think you are vastly overrating Kuroda, Pineda and Nova. I firmly believe, and have thought this always, that Pineda is going to get blown up in a stadium like the new Yankee Stadium. I see an ERA much closer to 5 than 3 this year. Kuroda fits the mold of soft tosser that gets away with it in the NL then gets blown up in the AL. It all has to play out….but I believe the Yank rotation moves were blown out of proportion with how good/bad they were. Good needed moves. But not season altering.
I think you are vastly overrating Pineda’s Away stats. it was his first season and he is 22 years old. You’re acting as if he has no shot of improvement. Kuroda as I said has a career interleague ERA in the low 4’s and has better career numbers away from Dodgers Stadium than in Dodger Stadum.
Not season altering? Ummm, they lost an ineffective 2nd half pitcher Bartolo Colon and also traded away one of the worst pitchers in baseball AJ Burnett.
Are you saying Burnett/Colon > Pineda/Kuroda? Please. You can’t say the Yankees did not improve their rotation from last year. Well I know you didn’t say that of course, but with how you’re posting it seems as if you’re leaning in that direction.
Pineda comes from Seattle to NY and Kuroda from LA to NY. You can give me a sabermetrics spheal if you want, but something has to give there. NY is a launching pad, and the competition is much stronger in the East. Sure Kuroda’s road splits are nice, but he’s also 37 switching leagues for the first time. Pineda is second year, and I’ve seen the sophomore slump happen about a million times. Also I’m sorry, but I am just not sold on Ian Nova. I like that he keeps the ball down, but thats a thin line to walk in the Al East. Its worked before, but it is a finicky beast.
I’d take a healthy Lester, Beckett, Buchholtz, Bard over that all day. Healthy being the key word.
Lester (like Sabathia for the Yankees) is the only one guaranteed to pretyt much have a good year. Beckett is inconsistent, Buchholz has had 1 good season in 5 seasons, and Bard has not made a single start. He could be like CJ Wilson, he could be like Phil Hughes.
The way I see it as I mentioned
CC slightly better than Lester
Beckett slightly better than Kuroda
Pineda = Buccholz
Nova > Any Red Sox remaining starter
Hughes = Any Red Sox remaning starter. As YFS78 said, it’s no forgone conclusion that Bard will be successful as a starter. He could be great, he could be average, he could be terrible, which is why As Of Now, I said I’d call him equal with Phil Hughes.
First of all the Blue Jays are going to have to get their fans back or if they are there, they have to show up at their stadium. Only on rare occasions is the Sky Dome sold out. Then and only then will Cashman and Alex R’s statements will come true. As a side note, I don’t like either of them; although I wish Duquette were as good as a GM as Cashman is. I am just not a fan of Cashman personally.
Anyway, as for rotations go, Red Sox are in some disarray because of various reasons. The Yankees might be improved as long as everyone stays healthy
The Rays should be the best because they are all home grown.
The one thing Steve M omitted was or maybe it was omitted because he doesn’t feel the way that I do on this matter. I feel that Chris Tillman could be every bit as good if not better than Jeremy Hellickson.
One other thing the Rays still have a “Pop Gun” offense, meaning it’s toothless!
Speaking of toothless, the O’s really should reconsider signing Vlad Guerrero.
The problem with the O’s for this year might not be their rotation, the problem is their bullpen once again is uproven as well as unreliable. Different Year and same story yet again.
Peter Angelos must go!
PS As for Mark Melancon you’re kidding right?
I read the Melancon article trying to make sense of that bullet point… It’s not like the guy has even done well in interleague play and for that matter it’s a small sample size. I think the question will be a moot point before long.
The rays get less attendance then the Jays and they made the playoffs so why not the Jays?
Why do the Jays need fans to show up for them to win? I think you’re mixing up the quotes. The comment about the payroll was by AA himself, not Cashman or Arod.
Your notion that the Jays need the fans in order to win is ridiculous, but I think that point has been conveyed.
That said, I think part of the problem–a big part–the Jays have in regards to low attendance is a very poor marketing plan. Rogers rarely shows any commercials, and when they do, it’s on their own channel. Beeston/Nadir need to man up and purchase some commercial air time on other channels. Another issue is they show even less Spring Training games than commercials (none yet, first one this weekend). I mean, if you want to get interest in the fans leading up to the season, televise the damn games. The casual pseudo Jays fan would see that 10-2 record, would think the Jays are World Series bound with that type of record, and may actually pay $200 to go see a few games live.
#endrant
EXACTLY!!! Sportsnet has shown more Orioles games (they were playing the Yanks) than Jays games this spring so far. Ridiculous. Right now you would be getting the casual fans very excited with this ST.
Odd that you would say the Rays rotation should be the best because they are homegrown. I just see HOW they were acquired as being somewhat irrelevant.
@Lefty: I don’t discount the Jays would love to be playing to a packed house day in and day out, but I don’t see what this point has to do with Cashman and ARod’s comments? On a separate note, you are aware the Jays have the best TV ratings in all of baseball averaging over 500K audience per broadcast for 162 games. Once the Jays start to win the fans will come back, however the interest in the team is still there based on the TV audience.
I agree with you. I was very surprised to see someone outside of the Red Sox/yankee viewpoint stating the Sox have the superior rotation. I don’t think the Sox rotation is as dire as some people have tried to make it… but the key o comparing the 2 rotations is after the first three pitchers. The Red Sox certainly have amassed a depth but it’s some gambling and some realizing that the offense will need to carry them. The yanks have a stronger depth after the first 3 starters.
*Edit: This was meant to be a reply to MB923, not sure why the direct reply didn’t work.
Haha, Disqus always does that. Yes that’s the key thing that separates the rotations I think
CC/Kuroda I’d say is = to Lester/Beckett. Sure Kuroda has no AL experience but his Interleague numbers are okay, and he has better Away #’s than at home. I’d give a slight edge to Beckett because of AL experience, but I’d also say Sabathia is a bit better than Lester.
Bard of course has the poteltional to be great, but for now I’d say he’s no better or no worse than Phil Hughes/Freddy Garcia. And Nova is certainly better than Aceves. Pineda/Buchholz is a toss up.
For me, the ultimate rotation is one with a 6th starter with success in the majors (2 fWAR) but in the minors on an optional assignment. Tampa might have such a rotation. Yankees optioning Nova to the minors will also place them in that category.
You need a strong prospect funnel and good payroll management to reach this point.
The Yankees aren’t optioning Nova to the minors unless he’s hurt or really bad.
Actually Garcia will outpreform Nova obviously and Nova will go to the minors because lets face it his 16 wins were basically because of their offense.
You should do some research before you get the urge to post nonsense. I’m not a real big ‘stats guy’, but even so, Nova pitched very well and not because of his offense, as you say.
Nova allowed 3 or less runs in 13 of 16 starts and he allowed 2 or less runs in 11 of 16 starters.
OK….I overestimated their depth.
If MLB decides to have a playoff on ST games, Jays will automatically be qualified and could be ST world serious champion. As of yesterday, Jays won more ST games than any other MLB teams.
ST champions of the woooooooooooooooooooooooooooorld!!!!!
Hopefully the Jays can do something special: develop top tier talent without top tier draft picks, like the Rays have had, and the Pirates, Orioles and Astros have now.
You have got to think that an emphasis on scouting and development will pay off even under the new CBA. Multiple looks by multiple scouts HAS to reduce drafting error and the high flameout rate even among top prospects.
Hmmm….Jays have many “Tier 1” High School prospects…basically…players who were in the Top 25 High School Prospects list…Brett Lawrie, Colby Rasmus, Travis D’Arnaud, Travis Snider, Kyle Drabek, Anthony Gose, Daniel Norris, Aaron Sanchez, Jake Marisnick, Dwight Smith, Matt Dean…etc….Even Sergio Santos was a “Tier 1” high school prospect.
All but one (Travis Snider) were acquired in the past two years by Alex Anthopoulos.
As a Yankees fan, I’m excited as to the POTENTIAL of the Yanks having a very young staff in 2013 headed up with CC as the vet.
A staff of Sabathia-Pineda-Nova-a hopefully resurgent Hughes (only 26 in 2013) and then some wild cards in Banuelos-Betances-Warren-Phelps-Mitchell-Joba. That would be about 4 guys under 27 in 2013.
Let’s hope Hughes has a great 2012 and can carry it over.
Absolutely.
Just move Baltimore to the NL West
”
Raul Ibanez doesn’t have emotional, historical or financial ties keeping him on theYankees’ roster, so Joel Sherman of the New York Post wonders how long the club will stick with Ibanez if his struggles continue. But as Sherman point out, it’s still just March 15th.”
My guess is he is being paid relatively little $1.1 guaranteed plus PA incentives. The Yankees could easily cut him. With virtually no significant payroll implications. Then go to Plan B use Dickerson as the left handed bat in the short term until something else comes along. Who knows maybe Matsui or even Damon if need be.
Or they could trade Martin for Kemp straight up
Ibañez has always been a streaky hitter. Also, I can’t see the Yankees giving up on him so soon. He’s the guy they wanted, so why give up on him so soon?
As a side note Damon looked terrible against the O’s in the opening series in 2011 and he wound up having a decent season. It’s always a gamble when you sign someone 35 or above.
As for the Blue Jays and yes I see the comments about my comments. I don’t know why I even tried to rationalize the situation, I never win when I go up against Blue Jays fans.
PS I see Matusz mowed the Tigers down today, four innings of shutout ball.
Maybe he is ready, finally! We shall see.
Unless his name is Barry Bonds Roger C Satch Big Papi or Wakefield or Varitek
“…I never win when I go up against Blue Jays fans.” – Lefty
Definition of insanity: “Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” Albert Einstein
@Lefty “You’re… you’re crazy man. I like you, but you’re crazy.” – Frank the Tank – Old School
“As for the Blue Jays and yes I see the comments about my comments. I don’t know why I even tried to rationalize the situation, I never win when I go up against Blue Jays fans.”
All the Jays fans were doing is commenting on your comment that seemed to show you did not really know the current situation. No need to get huffy. It happens when commenting on other teams. I’m sure people are going to blow me up for my comments on what I believe to be a very overrated Yankee rotation. But here’s the thing, some are blind homers, but many just happen to know the situation better than me. I can accpet that fact. Just like I’m sure the Jays fans know more about that situation than you do. The fans are all over the place in Toronto. Believe me, the atmosphere is all about the Blue Jays right now…. probably because of the Leafs collapse…but the excitement of this young exciting team keeps growing. The TV numbers are remarkable. The fans are here. The real problem is winning not getting the fans in the seats. With this extra WC there will be fans that actually go to games in August and Septmeber this year.
Huffy! Hahaha, I have never gotten huffy with anyone on here.
Also, I can’t believe I got the definition of insanity thrown at me today.
PS Coollet, who’s Frank the Tank?
A fictional character from the “Animal House” of this generation, the movie Old School. Really funny, highly recommend it.
Huffy? Is that like Jeffery? Cuz, i’m in!
Huffy? Is that like Jeffery? Cuz, i’m in!
Ahaa…. Its “my dog is better than your dog” time. Both players and fans, it would seem, are getting tired of spring training “games” and ready to get the regular season under way. I know I am. Only then will fans have any real idea of how good or bad their favorite team is playing. So lets get it on, so that those of us who think we are baseball experts have something besides last year’s statistics to talk about.