9:15am: The Red Sox will receive a pitcher from the Cubs' 40-man roster, tweets WEEI's Alex Speier. That'd rule out McNutt. Rafael Dolis, Chris Carpenter, Jeff Beliveau, and Casey Weathers are on the Cubs' 40-man and cracked Baseball America's top 30 prospects for the team. The decision is coming down today, confirms Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe.
7:36am: A resolution on the Theo Epstein compensation deal is imminent, reports Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston. Edes' MLB source says the Red Sox will receive one quality minor leaguer, a legitimate big-league prospect, from the Cubs. The decision might come today, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.
The Cubs hired Epstein as their president of baseball operations in October. Epstein resigned from Boston's GM position with one year remaining as part of the process, and the teams have not been able on agree which Cubs players the Red Sox will receive as compensation. The commissioner's office has gotten involved, with the teams submitting briefs recently. In January, Epstein explained his stance on WEEI: "There's no precedent for major, major compensation here."
The Cubs are not loaded with top-ranked prospects and young players, but I think it's safe to assume Matt Garza, Starlin Castro, Anthony Rizzo, Brett Jackson, Javier Baez, and probably Matt Szczur will not be involved. Given MLB's involvement, perhaps a player in the Cubs' next tier of prospects could be included, such as Trey McNutt. Check out Kevin Goldstein's Cubs prospect rankings for Baseball Prospectus here.
The Red Sox should be giving their fans compensation for hiring that whiny Bobby Valentine.
Well… I like him so far. We’ll see how it goes.
I wonder if he will wear makeup in the dugout too.
Better watch out.. He might be the next Astros manager.. houston has this habit of hiring former boston stars/coaches/managers…
It’s going to be McNutt. Pretty decently since it was reported in the fall the Sox wanted him and Theo said no.
Looks like you’re wrong man. haha
surely that QUALITY minor leaguer won’t be the guy we really know. Just an ordinary old prospect who’ll never make it to the majors. Garza? Brett Jackson? Javier Baez? McNutt? no way
Trey McNutt? Better find out what his real name is first.
Please be Junior Lake.
I highly doubt it will be Junior Lake since the Cubs have kicked the tires of moving him to the hot corner for good.
I’d rather hang on to him. At the very least, he’s a guy in the bullpen with a power arm.
hes a shortstop, i doubt he ever ends up in the bullpen
I doubt he ever sticks at short stop. Teams definitely want him as a power bullpen arm.
They talked about moving Lake to the Hot Corner. Since the depth behind Vitters is pretty barren
Take the cash, Ben! Take the cash!
Dude got a promoshe and the Sox let him walk, no? Send Ben C $500 so he can get a limo and dinner to try to swoon Wendi Nix back… you serious? Win-Win.
I’d take her as serious compensation
If Trey Mcnutt’s nickname is not Ball Three, then the Cubs organization has truly let us all down.
McNutt is our only pitching prospect worth anything, outside of Maples and Ben Wells.
If he goes, I’ll be bummed to lose his upside. However, who’s to say he’ll regain his velocity and control?
To be honest, I’d deal from a surplus and give them Vitters.
Losing McNutt would be a blow mostly because of how little the Cubs have going on in the minors in terms of pitching. Beyond that I’ve never been terribly high on him. He probably ends up a reliever, I would think.
Still, hopefully we’ll know by the end of the day what the compensation is and we can have a real discussion at that point. All the speculation this offseason got old fast.
surplus?
Dolis please.
We would like to keep Dolis.
Thanks tho.. Enjoy Weathers
You’ll get Chris Carpenter and like it. haha
I would mind getting him. You better hope your right though. If we get Dolis i’m clicking my heels and everything.
Wow its nice to see that the Cubs have an ace pitcher on their 40 man like Chris Carpenter…. oh wait, we have a different one.
Change the link
I don’t understand why Sox fans are so bitter. Whatever, let him leave. The fact that Garza, Castro, etc. were mentioned in the post is like when whatever newspaper it was made sure to say Gerrit Cole wasn’t in the Burnett trade. Don’t get me wrong, I loved Epstein, but he’s worth a B prospect at best. I know GM’s are important, but the fact that we’re even getting someone to put on a professional field amazes me.
He had value to us anything less than a reasonably promising player is a slap in the face. You can’t take one of the best GM’s in baseball in good faith knowing we expected something in return then offer us a career minor leaguer. Dolis would be ideal. He has great closer upside and could slot right into the bullpen and make it a force.
If you were selling a car for $20,000 and I told you I really liked it but I was only willing to pay $10,000. Would you say, “tell you what, lets go ahead and get all the paperwork done, you take the car and we’ll decide on what you’re going to pay me later”?
You think I’m going to then send you $20,000 after you already sent me packing with the car? That’s like expecting the Cubs to give up a good prospect here.
Yeah great. I think what really happened was they assumed that Theo could come to the conclusion Bud is about to on his own. Which would have been fine. I think they started asking high to make the middle they met at slightly better. Its basic negotiation skills. Dolis or Carpenter are plenty good for me. Expecting us to take someone like Jeff Baker is a slap though sorry. We need a prospect with a real chance to succeed not a pinch hitter.
The only hope for the Sox is if Selig wants to put an end to teams taking other teams front office members while they are still under contract. This is going to set the market for the next time it happens so Bud has his chance to slow it down. We’ll see though.
Every indicator is that its someone like Dolis, Carpenter, or Weathers. Dolis or Carpenter are big wins for us without setting too much of a precedent. They both could be legit closers in the future which is great upside, and still less than a full time guy like Jackson. Its the perfect medium.
Well Epstein was only under contract for 1 more year and after last year the sox ownership deemed it was best to just start over. Also Epstein is not one of the best GMs in the game, heck he was fourth best in his own division last year!
The way you rank in your division isn’t the way you rank as a GM. By that logic Billy Beane is one of the worst in baseball. He built a farm with Jacoby, Lester, Pedroia, Masterson, Papelbon, and Bard coming out of it. All with less than great picks in the draft. I would say that automatically makes him pretty damn good, not to mention the two titles.
Well you said one of the best and I am just wondering how many GMS are included in that since he is the 4th best in his division thats at least 3 better. I mean are the top 10 the best in the game? I would say to be one of the best you gotta be in the top 3, and he is not.
His farm is gone, the first WS can be attributed entirely to Dan D and Tito. Theo was good at making trades but signed some atrocious FA. I would say overall Theo is a good GM, but not one of the best in the game. He doesnt do anything exceptionally well.
“Dan D”? For real? Gorman drafted Trot Nixon, should give him some credit too. Epstein deserves credit for Schilling. And trading Nomar mid-season. It’s not as simple as you make it sound.
Oh yeah and I forgot about the Nomar trade as well. We dumped his useless corps on the Cubs and got O-Cab and Dougie out of it.
So good GM, but one of the best. His follies outweigh what would be a great GM. I would say good.
No I would say the great farm that he built that continues to be very strong, plus those titles cement his status as a great gm.
Follies like what our team not playing well, a little veteran pitching depth and some bad contracts. Anybody who spends big gets burnt sometimes. Thats the way it is. He has overseen huge discount signings for Lester, Buc, Pedroia, Youk, and Ortiz that far far far outweigh mistakes every gm with a big budget make. Sorry.
Yeah see wrong again because Theo brought in Johnny Damon, Kevin Milar, Mike Timlin, Mark Bellhorn, Dave Roberts, Curt Schilling, David Ortiz, Bill Mueller, and Kieth Foulke who were essential to winning that series. It could not have happened without them so yeah I would say he was the major GM force behind 04 without a doubt. 07 was also Theo. And the farm is not gone at all its actually incredibly deep, with a ton in the low minors, and has three prospects in the top 100. And as far as I am concerned you rank GM’s on championships, farm/organization development, and effective trades. Free agent signings have blown up on literally every GM who makes them regularly. So no AA is not better than Theo he has proven nothing everything he has done is on paper. Friedman is a good GM because does it with high and low picks and fields a solid offense. Who else is a candidate Beane, Daneils, and Towers,and Cashmen. So all in all he is in the top 6 or so. Give or take the season his rank moves between that and 1. Obviously in 04 and 07 he was 1.
okay I posted 2 responses both werent allowed to be posted.
Anyways short, I am not saying Theo is a bad gm. He did do things in 04 to contirbute but not that much and Dan D is often looked over for what he contributed to that team. Damon was already there as was ortiz when theo got there.
Essentially it comes down to a matter of how you value other GMs, which we disagree on, and how much Theo’s follies hurt him. HE did great things, but he also really screwed up. Good, not great.
Dan D contributed Manny, Lowe, and Pedro. Pretty much nothing else. The above additions are all super verified, and all Theo. He was the force by a long shot. Its not even debatable. He screwed up on free agency occasionally which as I show above so has Cashmen (only true comparable budget wise). He is one of the great GMs of this decade without a doubt.
Go fetch Theo some starbucks coffee!
He didnt build enough depth in the rotation and when he tried to take gambles on players to perform(millwood/penny/colon) they backfired. Dude in recent years just throws money around and fails. His recent failures take him from being great to being good. Just good.
Yeah cheap signings that don’t work out. Sounds like something most teams do. Doesn’t mean anything.
The point is whenever he has tried to get creative in recent years or tried to bring in a great FA he has failed. That does effect his ranking IMO, obviously not in yours because once greatness is achieved I guess it cant be lost.
No its not that it can’t be lost its that those small signingsyou speak of in no way hurt the teams future. And again mistakes are mistakes but generally he is very effective at creating a consistantly competitive team. So that his good trade record/farm record/ and titles means he is still one of the best.
Dan D contributed Manny, Lowe, and Pedro. Pretty much nothing else. The above additions are all super verified, and all Theo. He was the force by a long shot. Its not even debatable. He screwed up on free agency occasionally which as I show above so has Cashmen (only true comparable budget wise). He is one of the great GMs of this decade without a doubt.
They modded it out for some reason, but no I verified beyond doubt he brought in all those players. He gets all the gm credit for 04 aside from Manny, Pedro, and Lowe.
Epstein did what anyone could with the money he had at his disposal. You could say the same about Cashman, I guess, but given Cashman’s track record I’d put him ahead of Theo. Friedman is tops in the div pretty easily, and AA is turning out to be pretty solid himself. Not outrageous to rank Theo fourth.
The point is that Ortiz was a castoff who ended up being huge, Milar was huge, Mueller was undervalued, Bellhorn filled a need, Schilling was a masterful trade, Nomar for O-Cab was a masterful trade. Timlin was a great bullpen piece. Theo saw something in all of them, every other team could have taken those guys but Theo did and made a title out of it. Those were all cheap moves, except for the Damon signing (Still relativley) , Nomar/Schilling trades (although we won both by a landslide so cost didnt matter). Point is he put together around 10 people who were instrumental in winning that title, thus he gets the GM credit for it. 07 is the same. He has made some bad contract signings just like every other GM with a big budget. I consider Cashmen to be right there too and he has made just as many mistakes as Theo with free agency and too deny it is insane. Point is they have made great signings too. Theo got ortiz, Lester, Pedroia, Buc, and Youk through their prime years on the cheap. Cashmen and Theo both have made very good farms with great talents throughout. They are both great GM’s. Theo has done just as much to assert his place among the games very best. When Friedman puts together a bullpen from crap and makes the playoffs we call him a dream weaver, well Theo took around 8 pieces of undervalued scrap heap and won a WS title with it……thats better.
AA has nothing close to even resembling the career sucesses that Theo has. So while he seems to very talented he hasn’t turned it into an awful lot yet, not even a single playoff birth so imo its way premature to rank him ahead of Theo. Way I see it is Friedman is 1, Theo and cashmen are about the same so 2 or 3 give or take the season they had. Daniels is right after them. AA is probably top 5 until some of his moves make waves or flop.
Maybe Edes and many other so called reporters will finally be right after reporting/guessing many many times the deals is close. When did reporting become guessing and not just the reporting facts?
When Twitter exploded, they have to guess to keep the new posts rolling out. if they only reported facts iot be like 1 tweet per week…
I really hope it isn’t Dolis leaving…Beliveau really turned things around this past season and found some control, so I’d like to keep him too..I guess Weathers is the one I could handle losing the most…
The BloSox should be so happy the Cubs took Boy Blunder off their hands they should have to give the CUBS compensation!
If I am the Cubs I push for Garza to go to Sox. Garza contract will expire before the Cubs are rebuilt. Carpenter could be a real good pitcher
…
Truth is only the cubs and sox FO know what was said in letting Theo go. If you listen to Cubs spin the Sox should get nothing, if you listen to Sox spin they deserve everything. Both sides are stretching the truth and its time to decide and move on.
Giving them Garza? Really?
Yes you are right that we dont know what was said, however what we do know is early on the Sox said Garza and the cubs said no, this was before he officially was traded.
However even if we dont know anything, it is a bit of a stretch to think they would give up Garza for Theo, just because we dont know for certain doesnt mean we can assume the sox will get an ace pitcher
Hopefully you mean being traded to the Sox for their top prospects and not for a GM that you already have….
WEEI everyone
Forget your coffee this morning?
The Cubs should just offer to fund a broadway and pay 150k. It happened before right? Sox do it!
At least Sox aren’t cursed by a goat
Not yet they arent, just wait until the Cubs send their player to fenway riding a goat!!
it’s one of the cub’s good players. oh wait they don’t have any
I’d take Castro. Would certainly fill the Red Sox’ largest hole (SS)
I’m sure you would. 21 year old All-Star shortstops don’t get moved for front office personnel.
How much is a President of Baseball Operations really worth? Compensation should be just and fair. The difficulty lies in determining value. A front office guy for ballplayer. How much were the Sox paying for Theo? That should be the premise for determining value. Fair exchange is no robbery. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out.
Watch it be like Travis Wood.
If it is Travis Wood I would be extremely pissed, because that would basically be like giving them Marshall, one of the top 5 lefty bullpen arms..That is a little high don’t you think?
My mistake I totally forgot about that deal…..disregard that then they would never do that…
I think if the Red Sox were willing to pay Garza’s salsry, they should be able to acquire him.
Stealing our #1 starter just because you want to pay his $10 million salary? Lunacy.
Compensation in this case is all about what was and wasn’t said in Theo leaving his contract early and going to Cubs. None of us where there and heard the words spoken. Whatever the position that Cubs gave Theo it cermonial he is the GM
You’ll most likely end up with Chris Carpenter. He’s got velocity but lacks control
this was just confirmed, with a wrinkle. 2-for-1 with somebody going to the cubs
I know this isn’t going to happen, but I sure would love a Garza and Castro to Red Sox for Iglesias and the Sox pay Garza’s contract..
facepalm
should know soon, according to Edes tweet.. the Cubs player is being told now he is going to the Sox
I could have told you before Matt Garza was born that that trade would not happen. Or Castro for that matter. He’s OK too
Okay the reason this took so long was because Alfonso Soriano needed to get another identity. He changed his name and is listed as a pitcher on the roster now. The sox will acquire him and be like son of a…..
I am BFFs with Olney, he told me this.
A player for a front office guy is ridiculous. Monetary compensation makes more sense if any compensation is necessary at all. The Cubs should just say nevermind and tell the Sox they can have Theo back.
Writing a comment that even I know is absurd doesn’t require Cubs fans to lash out and act 12 again. Thank You
Don’t write absurd things.
Ok Boss
I’m more harsh about this topic than most because the Cubs had all offseason to get this done. Yes, Theo would have been out the door after 2012 anyway, but a high ranking F.O person left his contracted team early to go to another team. Compensation is a part of that. What next, we start seeing a trade where only one player goes to the other team with nothing in return. THAT’S absurd. Commish should never have had to step in, and if I were him I’d make a statement so other teams don’t think it’s acceptable to run their business like this. Wonder why they haven’t won in so long.
My edit- You all know if the tide was flipped and it was the Red Sox who were doing this it’d be “They are the Red Sox, they can get away with this”
Rosenthal reports Carpenter and PTBNL for PTBNL and Theo
Carpenter its official. Thank you Cubs! I’ll take it.