The Cubs have acquired first baseman Anthony Rizzo and right-hander Zach Cates from the Padres for right-hander Andrew Cashner and outfielder Kyung-Min Na, the teams announced. The move provides the Cubs with a potential long-term first baseman and makes room for another first baseman in San Diego.
“The acquisition of Yonder Alonso provided us the flexibility to make this trade and acquire a quality, young power arm in Andrew Cashner,” Padres GM Josh Byrnes said. “We are happy to add a pitcher with the pedigree of Cashner and an outfielder with the athleticism of Na.”
The Cubs are presumably out of the running for free agent Prince Fielder with the acquisition of Rizzo. Bryan LaHair will open the season as the Cubs' everyday first baseman and Rizzo will play at Triple-A, GM Jed Hoyer said, tweets Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune.
Rizzo, 22, debuted with the Padres last year, posting a .141/.281/.242 line in a 153 plate appearance cameo. He spent most of the season at Triple-A, where he posted a .331/.404/.652 line and hit 26 homers in 413 plate appearances. Baseball America ranked him 75 among MLB prospects entering the 2011 season and first among Padres prospects after the campaign ended. Even if Rizzo (pictured) sticks in the Major Leagues from this point on, he'll be under team control through 2017.
Cates, a 2010 third rounder, made his professional debut in 2011. The 22-year-old posted a 4.73 ERA with 8.5 K/9 and 4.0 BB/9 in 118 innings as a starter at Class A.
Cashner, 25, has a 4.29 ERA with 8.0 K/9 and 4.7 BB/9 in 65 innings over the course of two seasons with the Cubs. The 2008 first rounder spent much of the 2011 season on the 60-day disabled list with a strained right rotator cuff, but returned to make six appearances in September. He'll be under team control through 2016. The Padres will use Cashner out of the bullpen, Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweets.
Na, 20, has a .244/.335/.284 line in 519 plate appearances over the course of two seasons in the lower levels of the minor leagues. He has played all three outfield positions professionally and spent most of his time in center.
When the Red Sox drafted Rizzo in the sixth round of the 2007 draft, current Cubs president of baseball operations Theo Epstein was Boston's GM, Hoyer was his assistant GM and Jason McLeod was his scouting director. Hoyer, McLeod, Byrnes and the Padres acquired Rizzo from Epstein and the Red Sox in last offseason's Adrian Gonzalez deal. It's worth noting that Byrnes worked with Hoyer and Epstein in Boston before becoming Arizona's GM in 2005.
Photo courtesy Icon SMI.
Padres got hosed.
(ring, ring) “Yes, this is the emergency operator, what’s your emergency”? (In a frantic voice) “Yes! I need to report a robbery at Petco Park. One assailant was about 6’2 with wavy black hair and the other looked like the guy who played the adult Collagio character in “Bronx Tale”.
“I like your style dude” – Cowboy in Big Lebowski
“but do you really have to cuss so much?”
yes thank the lord they got rid of big z he was nothing but truble now its the fish turn with the problem.
calogero*
i hate spellcheckers, but i’m italian, i had to.
one of my fave movies though, nice pull.
funny enough lillo brancato, the guy who played calogero really was arrested for burgulary.
dude almost got a murder charge, too.
thats right, of a cop.
loved him in Bronx Tale, hated him on The Sopranos.
This trade should be no surprise to anyone.Theo drafted Rizzo. He spent the past 5 years trying to get Hanley back from the Marlins . He failed there, but he succeeded here.
Next to go ? Soriano of course. Unlike the Yankees, the Cubs are obviously agreeable to eat a huge chuck of a contract. We should only be able to dump Burnett as easily as he dumped Zambrano.
He should try to get Hanley to the Cubs. Granted he’s a lazy player at times but the Cubs don’t have enough to get him, I guess they could send Castro, Soto, Soriano, Blake DeWitt and one other plus 60mil in cash to Florida for Hanley Ramirez and one more player. It’s a win win for both teams, The Cubs get rid of their remaining cancer plus a throw in of DeWitt. They get a SS who won’t make 10 errors in 4 games.
Your dealer… can I have his number?
How does that comment make me sound like i do drugs.
Maybe you should go back and read it for yourself…
i think it makes you sound like you need drugs
you are in complete rebuild mode…why would you pick up Hanley? dumping contracts is what the cubs are doing not adding ridiculous ones…
They need to get rid of players with no talent DeWitt and Soto and the Soriano needs to go because of his horrible contract. Hanley Ramirez doesn’t have a ridiculous contract. Last time I checked it was about a 4th of Soriano’s contract with the same years. Not bad considering he’s better then Castro. Castro won’t make it if he can’t get his defense improved.
The best part was the 60 mil in cash. That was funny.
You sound like you are on drugs for multiple reasons, one you give up 6 players (most of which Miami wouldn’t even want) and 60 million in cash (which I’m assuming is us taking on some of the contracts like Soriano’s) for Hanley. When we already have a great young SS who is 7 years younger than Hanley and your only argument is that Castro has poor defensive skills? he’s 21 years old!!! most 21 year olds are still in single A give him a break. Hanley is lazy and now after last year is an injury scare, his numbers are decreasing each year we are in rebuild mode we don’t need to swap a 28 year old SS who spent most of last year injured for our 21 year old one on the rise.
Honestly I had no idea Hanley was 28 I thought he was no older then 25. Castro honestly came up too early but Hendry saved his job by bringing him up.
I can’t think of a worse deal Josh Byrnes made, even as DBacks GM.
I went from the Josh Byrnes fan club to going to bed thinking he’s an idiot. I don’t know anything about Na so I hope I’m sleeping on the return.
Completely agree, I know Byrnes didn’t draft or trade for Rizzo but was that all he needed a singles hitter who barely gets on base and a reliever with control problems, and the fact that he threw in a pitcher too.
They may be using Cashner as a reliever, but he was a starter in Chicago.
1 start in Chicago does not make him a starter. He started some in the minors and in college. But you have to wonder why he was converted to a closer in college instead of staying a starter if he was so good.
He made one start and then was disabled for the rest of the season. He would have started 25+ games if he had remained healthy.
What a great trade by Cubs management. Hoorah!
Maybe he would have. Also, maybe he would have then pitched like crap and moved back to the bullpen. Only time will tell whether he is a career starter or a reliever .
The first time I glanced at Na’s slash line, I actually thought his slugging percentage was lower than his batting average lol had to do a double-take
Yeah cause Rizzo is such a stud
If Chuck Norris said so, you know it’s true.
how did they get hosed? Anthony Rizzo, had absolutely nothing left to prove in the PCL (AAA), nor had he shown significant improvement playing Winter Ball. But most people could care less about all that, right.
End of the day, the Padres need postion players who know how to hit for average and they need to make more contact than strikeouts…and if you’ve even seen Rizzo play on the big league club, you’d know thats NOT what he was.
He struck out wayyyy too much, and there were BIG holes in his swing. One could say that we should keep him in the event of Alonso, falling on his face and disappointing. But Rizzo was no better than Kyle Blanks, who is still with the Padres.
Why is there this morbid fascination with a kid in Rizzo who may never be as effective as we want him to be in Petco?…and moreso, why have people COMPLETELY forgotten about the right handed pull power that Blanks brings to the table?
Memories are far too short around here. Just because a kid is young, and tore it up in a hitters league in AAA, does not mean that he’ll hit 35 homers and 100 plus ribbies in the NL West, where pitching DOMINATES.
Blanks has made PETCO and other ballparks in the West, look extremely small…Rizzo has not.
Just saying…we need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid of these very young, and very unproven prospects. And lets focus on what the division demands from the teams that play in it.
When the Giants won it all 2 yrs ago, there WAS NOT ONE GUY ON THE TEAM WHO HIT 30 HOMERS, and there were fewer guys on that team that had that many doubles. So, unless you’re an Adrian Gonzalez, Tulowitzki or a Manny Ramirez (led the Dodgers to back to back division titles) or a Barry Bonds, you’re not gonna have many guys at all in the West, hitting homers all over the place.
Again, just sayin….
MAN lmao
lol that was one hell of a hot take… Kyle Blanks lol
Well that’s a thing
What happened to our 29 year old AAA 1b???? Theo, you lied to us!
When Theo gets a woody over a player it has staying power. Exhibit A: Julio Lugo. Just be thankful it’s someone with some talent.
How did he lie? He never said they were “set” at first base, just that they had options.
If you truly think anyone has a problem with starting Anthony Rizzo, over a 29 year-old AAA player or that someone expects a GM to be honest with their fanbase…….I’ve got some magic beans I want to sell you.
Go on….
It’s good stuff, you can sprout ’em, eat ’em, count ’em, and they’re also good for bargaining with idiots lol
I really like LaHair and I think he will still compete with Rizzo in Spring Training. Best case scenario is that they both do well and LaHair can move to the Outfield.
He may be patrolling LF after Soriano is traded.
I take it Fielder and the Cubs aren’t happening anymore.
No chance now.
Also, Padres got s*** back.
Not necessarily. Rizzo’s stay in the majors was full of ineffectiveness, while Cashner was injured. Both have talent, though I think the Cubs won the deal.
The time Riz spent was too brief and it was his first taste of mlb level pitching. If that played a role in the Padres decision then they sold low on him.
I’m guessing Alonso’s presence (and MLB success) was a bigger factor than that string of plate appearances for Rizzo.
A 22 year old was ineffective in 150 PAs?!?
Well, he’s done.
was 21 while in MLB
Even worse!
Small sample size FTW.
So, what, the small sample size of Rizzo is able to be written off, but one injury to Cashner is doom?
it is when we’ve had prior and wood in the past
Worst defense ever. How many “sure-thing,” prospects have we had fail? Prior, Wood, Pie, Patterson, and so on. If anything, the Cubs have more proof of failed prospects than injury-riddled pitchers.
Dude. This is the worst trade I have seen in a long time. Rizzo is one of the best young hitters in baseball and all the Pads got is a pitcher with a career 4.0 BB/9 rate in the minors who missed the entire season last year.
This trade is unexplainable.
Add that the Pads gave up another tier B prospect…
Cates wasn’t even in Sickels’ top-25 for Padres prospects.
Also, is it REALLY fair to ride Cashner for the walk rate? He had 3 minors league stints of sub-3.30 FIP ball, and he’s never even gotten the chance to pitch more than 60 innings in one stay at a level.
He was rushed, which is probably why he hurt his shoulder. I’m not saying the Padres weren’t silly with this, but to call it one of the worst in a while when Rizzo’s jsut as unproven in the majors as Cashner is an overreaction.
Granted, you could be right EVENTUALLY.
I’m curious what rushing a pitcher has to do with him getting an injury?
I see the two as mutually exclusive.
Quite simply, he was not allowed to properly build up arm strength. He spent all of 2010 with the Cubs as a reliever, then was asked to start from the get-go in 2011. He had never thrown more than 60 innings at a single level in his career, and I think he topped out at 12 starts in 2 of his stops.
so those 6.1 innings were the breaking point?
Maybe. I mean, there’s a breaking point to everything. It could just be coincidence that it happened when it did. Maybe if they gave him one more start in Spring Training, it would have happened then. Maybe any number of things.
It happened, he is being used as a reliever to build his arm up for 2013 as a starter.
Being a Cubs fan, it seems ever good pitching prospect they have lasts a year or two and then is done. I’ll take a left handed 1B over a pitcher any day with the Cubs. They can sign some FA’s pitchers later.
Cashner & rushed can not be used as excuse for his injury. It was his first start of the year!
I know the Cubs have a history of arm abuse (ie. Prior, Wood, etc.)
But not this time. Cashner was used in relief in the majors and rarely pitched 2 days in a row.
Rushed in the sense that he spent all of 2010 as a reliever. His career-high for starts was 24 in 2009, and that was in only 100 1/3 IP. He was BARELY averaging 4 innings per start.
Come 2010, they have him make 9 minor league starts before turning him into a reliever without proper training/conditioning, and he pitched like garbage, while throwing a total of 111 innings.
The they ask him to traing to be a starter in the offseason. He wasn’t going to be a 180-inning starter. He was likely going to throw 140-150 innings max, or he was going to break down. He wasn’t really prepared to start, and maybe he was hurt from overthrowing pitches late when he was out of stamina or should have been holding back a little. He threw just 72 pitches before being pulled, and was done for the season as a starter.
I’m saying I don’t know that he should have been made into a starter like that, after spending the whole season as a reliever and showing that as a starter in the past, he struggled with going beyond 5 innings.
That was my immediate reaction.
They probably never were.
Go overpay Fielder, Mariners. Please.
epstein actually wants someone who might be able to move 3 steps in a couple of years and not turn into another:
A) Soriano
B) Zambrano
C) dempster
Type contract only magnified many times worse.
Epstein made the correct call, especially for a team in full rebuild mode.
I doubt that they were ever really serious about Fielder.
i think the alonzo move paved the way for this deal to happen and put fielder out of focus
Looks as if the Cubs are still in talks with Boras for Fielder. Not sure I understand as Rizzo will be looking for an everyday job in a season or less.
Boras is the one saying the cubs are still interested, doesn’t mean we are actually going to sign him.
I hope Mariners get him. It’d be fun to see them compete again.
Stupid Trade for the Padres
And keeper league owners everywhere rejoice…No more Petco for the Riz!
Cashner owners too
Please tell me the Padres are getting more than this in return. I do not like this one little bit.
Three team trade perhaps?
I hope so, because this trade is brutal for the Padres. This is the 1st bad move that Byrnes has made so far and wow is it a doozy.
I think it’s payback to Theo for hiring Jed and opening the door for a second chance for Josh.
But shouldn’t the Padres have gotten the better end of this deal as compensation for allowing Hoyer to make a lateral move to the Cubs. I can’t wait to hear how Byrnes tries to sell this one. I thought they could have gotten a lot more or at least let him tear apart AAA again and see what would be available later on. Brutal move by Byrnes.
Nah, that doesn’t happen, it would be like saying that Hoyer’s trade of Adrián González for nothing the Padres could use in the short term, was payback just because Epstein helped him win the position with the Padres after Theo lobbied in behalf of Jed.
LOL aaaand still there’s people who doubt about collusion in trades where Epstein and his former employees take place.
That would be an interesting post, wouldn’t it? GM “trees” and trade history amongst the branches? It’s a different sport and league, but you don’t see Belichick making deals with Dimitroff in ATL or Pioli in KC (besides Cassel) all the time. This bunch sure is incestuous.
Tony Gonzalez
Theo has always traded with the Padres a good deal throughout his career.
Exactly. Theo was under Towers. He was keeping it in the family then, too.
Exactly. Theo was under Towers. He was keeping it in the family then, too.
I get that but I don’t think its a conspiracy of any kind. They just work together better.
Yeah the trade for Adrian actually did give them Rizzo who was on the field that same season so I think thats pretty short term. I think he will thrive with the Cubs. The rest of the package for Adrian could succeed, but from reading up on Kelly’s progress it appears his stock has fallen a bit. Fuentes IDK. Overall I think this move makes the trade officially a win for the Sox. Unless Cashner & Kelly become #2’s (At least) and Fuentes becomes a regular this won’t even be close.
Maybe the Padres writer was right. They may be trading him for those prospects, in return the Rays send pitching to Chicago.
ya, and SD get’s something else too. I don’t know, I didn’t really understand the Marlin’s motivation for the Z deal either(other than 2012!!11!!1ONE)
Keep in mind that Epstein+Hoyer helped Byrnes get his seat as GM of the Padres, so, he’s just returning the favor as Hoyer did when he gave Adrián González to his former boss Epstein, and the three of them worked together with the sox, so, there’s a bit of loyalty towards Epstein to always help him in any way possible.
I also don’t think this trade is as bad for SD as people are saying; Rizzo is definitely a good hitter (and a good defender) but his power numbers were likely inflated a bit last year because he was playing in the PCL and he’s still a prospect (unproven), and the Padres are getting a major league starting pitcher with 5 years of control.
EDIT: That’s not to say that I don’t think the Cubs won this deal, but it’s not as bad as it sounds.
cashner is a bigger question mark than rizzo at this point. it’s pretty bad
Is Cashner a bigger question mark? Honest question, I don’t know much about him.
I know he was injured some last year, but he was a starter for the Cubs and has good minor league numbers (and decent major league numbers in a small sample), and moving to PetCo is only going to make him look better.
I don’t doubt that Rizzo is going to be a good major league 1B, so I hope you didn’t get the wrong impression, but is he the player he was with the Sox or the player he was with the Padres (if you know what I mean)?
cashner threw 22 innings last year and it isn’t as if he was ever a proven commodity before that. he’s got 60 MLB innings of nothing much and a lesser minor league track record than rizzo, who is 3 years younger
i’m not trying to say he’s garbage; his potential is legitimate. but he’s actually the riskier commodity of the two. even when you adjust rizzo’s AAA numbers are very good even after you adjust them for PCL inflation and guys who break into the bigs at age 21 generally have very solid careers
the trade just makes very little sense for the padres given the other teams interested in rizzo. you could lose a trade with the rays for example and still do better than this. if i’m SD i’d sooner stash rizzo in AAA for half a year than pull the trigger on this trade right now
Fair enough, and I just saw on Twitter that the Padres are planning on using him as a reliever next year and maybe a starter in the future, so this deal makes way less sense than I thought.
If they saw him as a starter now and in the future I think this would have made a little sense (though they still would have lost the deal), but this is just dumb.
As a Cub fan who’s watched Cashner pitch, I can tell you that he does have some potentially elite stuff. a mid- to high-90s FB to go with a wicked hook. I was sorry to see the Cubs let him go, especially when they’re hurting so badly for SP right now, but I guess Rizzo was just too big a prize to pass up. And I do agree w/ Notsure regarding his risk–he could very well end up being ineffective due to injury or lack of control.
He was effective in his start against the DBacks last year, which I attended. (snaps suspenders)
That’s exactly the point. No one questions whether they SHOULD trade Rizzo. It’s what they got for him that makes us scratch our heads. I can’t imagine he could not have gotten more, especially for a team like the Rays with a wealth of pitching and a need for an offensive minded 1b on the cheap.
wow.
ARGH! Come on Friedman!
biggest cubs news of the day! oh wait..
Umm…what’re we waiting for?
Starlin Castro. Go check it out.
Ehh, I wouldn’t really call that bigger. So many high-profile people get charged with assault nowadays, and so few ever get punished.
Whether it’s getting out of it through clout or a baseless complaint, he’ll probably get off without any issue.
Agreed, however Dudemanbro had alluded to the biggest news of the day. The prospects of the Cubs’ most likely developmental star possibly having damning charges leveled against him trumps news of a hopeful masher arriving to the North Side to relieve the city of hearing about Bryan LaHair’s late blooming “talent.”
It is bigger in terms of what it is, but given the nature of these claims against athletes/celebrities in the past, my guess is it ends up being nothing or forgotten, just like with Roesthlisberger and Bryant.
Few though have women who went to the hospital right after the incident. Usually it’s someone who may or may not have been attacked and went to the media or a lawyer after. The fact that she went to the hospital could spell bad things for mister Castro.
She went to the hospital 12 hours later…not that it makes a huge difference…bad is bad
Nor do the incidents end up in the media this quickly.
Four months isn’t too quick in my book
I’m guessing or should I say hoping this is nothing.
whoa
“Oh the Padres will never trade Rizzo for Davis they need a middle infielder like Lee” I bet they would of preferred Wade Davis now.
Even though I am not thrilled with this trade, I would take Cashner or Davis… mainly because the Padres won’t be in need of back of the rotation starters for the next 10 years.
What was San Diego thinking?
How to get worse?
My guess is, Josh Byrnes does not value Rizzo as much as Epstein and Hoyer do. And I have to say, the kid did demonstrate some significant flaws in his swing last season. Not saying he can’t make adjustments, but he has a very long swing and is susceptible to off-speed stuff. PetCo is also murder on lefties, so there is that.
I would have expected more of a return, but I’d say it’s fairly clean Byrnes is attempting to put his own stamp on the Padres farm system. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens, but I have complete faith in the ability of the Padres pitching coach (and PetCo) to “fix” Cashner and get him throwing strikes.
Seems like a steal for the Cubs if these are the only 4 players mentioned
No Rizzo for Rays…
Didn’t think it was possible for the Cubs to win a trade, yet here we are.
After 104 years, they had to win something.
This made me so sad, and yet, you received my “Like.”
Don’t worry man. You guys have a pretty solid front office now. With an increased scouting department, the Cubs should be a pretty good team in 3 years, great in 5 if all things go well.
Don’t hold your breath on that one. They are out of contention for 2012-2014 so 2015 they will finish probably 7-10 games over .500. For 2016-17 they might be contenders.
the truth hurts. but get those comment out of your system while you can, I suspect you will only be able to make them for 3-5 more years!
They killed in the Zambrano trade, they lose in this one.
Thats all they got?
Holy hell this is terrible, Rizzo is great. This package for him…is not.
We need pitching depth. I don’t like it.
Which team are you for?
I mean, the Padres got a pitcher in Cashner, so I guess you’re also a Cubs fan. In that case, note that their ONLY option at first before this was Bryan LaHair. They at least still have Garza (hopefully for not too much longer), Dempster (ditto), Travis Wood, Wells, Dolis, Lopez, Sonnastine (probable RP), Samardzija (ditto), and Coleman. They have plenty of depth, but so much of it is ineffective.
First base was a total failure, though. They really needed a bat, and they got one.
I love Cash…but HELL YEAH
And Theology begins its magic
Zambrano for Volstad, and now Rizzo for almost nothing? Theo’s on fire.
Cashner isn’t nothing. But still a great deal for the Cubs.
Cash was why I said -almost- nothing.
Not sure that Zambrano for Volstad is THAT great of a deal.
It’s not a great deal in the sense that the talent acquired wasn’t great, but it was a good deal based on the reasoning. In Theo’s words, Zambrano wasn’t coming back and they viewed his salary as a sunk cost, so they had to choose: Zambrano for one year for that salary, or Volstad for multiple years?
Easy choice, good deal.
Totally agree w/ that. It was almost a necessary trade. Still think they should’ve let Z audition in ST, but they got rid of a potential distraction and got a pitcher who’s not the worst ever under control through ’15.
he blows up in ST and they get nothing
Honestly don’t think he would’ve blown up in ST, but that’s just my opinion.
Also taking into account the cultre change
For the Cubs that the big z trade represents. Theo as crew won’t stand for failure and mediocrity. They want to change the entire culture of the cubs. Moving
Big z signifies this. He was a sunk cost yes and they got a mediocre pitcher with years of control back but the biggest this is they sent away a head case who threw his team under the bus more often than not. He was never accountable. It was always someone roses fault that a ball got hit or a run scored. Theo is changing that mentality. So the move of z is a great move. At least they got something back and not just cutting
Him.
Except for the $16 million, it was.
For the Marlins, yes.
Cubs didn’t win out money-wise, but they got rid of an enormous clubhouse distraction and got a serviceable ground-ball pitcher. Don’t really think they could have hoped for much more than that.
It was a great deal for the Cubs they get rid of a cancer and the Marlins gain a cancer at no risk.
Or a media circus. A fun little media circus.
Not a fan of Volstad, but anything for Z is a win. In fact, CHC paid more with Zambrano and got back Volstad. ATL paid $10M on the final year of Derek Lowe’s contract and got back a future never-was prospect. I’d say Theo made out better on that burn sale.
Except for the $16 million the Cubs have to pay on Zambrano’s contract. Hope the door hit him on the way out. What could have been, turned into what are you now? Crazy? The more money he got, the less control, and self control he retained. Good riddance!
A bit in poor taste, don’t you think? Epstein on fire?
Cubs need all the pitching they can get, so why trade one of the few viable options they already had? Guess Jed has to acquire Rizzo at every stop.
If you can acquire a player with Rizzo’s upside for next to nothing…you do it, pitching depth be damned.
OK, so what about Cashner’s upside?
What is Cashners’ upside? And that is not sarcasm, where does he fit into a rotation? And please tell me he is not a bullpen arm. I am Padre fan and am not a big fan of this deal.
from what we saw 2 years ago, he looks like a set-up/closer. he has a tall frame and throws hard with some ease, so could work into the rotation, but haven’t seen him prove that.
His future is in the bullpen. Upside is limited by that.
He hasn’t stayed on the field to pitch much more than 100 innings in any given season, which would suggest he’s most likely to end up in the bullpen sooner than later.
Also, numbers weren’t that impressive considering he’s been old for the leagues he’s pitched in.
NO NO NO. I am sure Rizzo can be good. But why trade Cashner?? Come on man….the guy HAS AN ARM…….I thought he had the best potential, better the Jeff Samardzija!!! Clearly you do NOT want Fielder!!!! Cashner could be a very good starter. Now he can be for someone else. I dislike this trade!
Why not trade Garza and Soriano to a team like the Orioles or Red Sox??? Surprise me even more, Theo!
Welcome to alone
Clearly they do not want Fielder.
Trivia question Scott: When was the last time a young Cub was traded to another team and did anything of note? I can’t think of one either.
Ricky Nolasco had his moments. And Dontrelle Willis was pretty great for four years before turning into a pumpkin.
I guess the lesson here is, maybe they’re good, for a while, if they’re pitching prospects dealt to Florida.
Technically, they had Josh Hamilton for about two minutes in the Rule 5 draft before trading him to the Reds. Does that count?
Ouch!
lou brock?
once used as one of the main peices to get Adrian Gonzalez and now to get Andrew cashner and Kyung-Min Na what a rip off for the padres
Josh Byrnes strikes again!
Rizzo/Hoyer—Joined at hips (Hoyer always takes first step of course).
You forgot one name: Epstein, ’cause Hoyer, Epstein and Byrnes all worked together with the Red Sox.
Trades involving Epstein and his former employees will always result in Epstein getting whatever he wants for next to nothing. He along Hoyer sold the idea of Rizzo being the next Adrián González and how that trade was so much better for the Padres, yet now the acquire Rizzo for next to nothing because he could be good LMAO.
Was this trade based on how he played last year? lol This cant be the entire deal, That Korean dude has never hit a homer…..
This is excellent news.
Wow, Rizzo was actually worse than Adam Dunn last season… previously considered by scientists, philosophers and theologians worldwide to be an impossiblity.
He had 128 AB last year.
Yes, and almost all of them very bad.
Seriously? Rizzo was a 22 y/o in his rookie season. You can’t compare him to a guy who was 40/100/.900 OPS for 5 years straight…in the National League.
What? Rizzo had a 1056 OPS at AAA as a 21 year old and was seen as the main piece in the Ade-Gon deal. He is worth a heckuva lot more than a injury-plagued 25 year old pitcher. Cubs cleaned up on this deal, I can’t believe Byrnes let Rizzo go for so little. I’d be sick to my stomach as a Padres fan right now, as a baseball fan in general I already kind of am. It rules to be a Cubs fan right now I guess.
EDITED
Padres fans will feel much better after they sign Fielder. The tragedy was trading a future HOFer like A Gonzalez for a bust.
You’re either oblivious, or the worst troll in the history of the internet.
Successfully trolled.
I’m sure you meant Byrnes, but you said Hoyer :X
edited, thanks
Rizzo was good at AAA but remember how bad he looked in the majors, dude was never a talented hitter but got lucky at AAA. His defense is bad, not ‘Starlin Castro’ bad, but it isn’t the best there is.
Oh, and don’t forget that it was Hoyer who sold us Padre fans the idea of Rizzo being the next AGon, but in fact he just acquired a mediocre hitter converted to mediocre pitcher in Kelly, a Fuentes guy who is unproven and Rizzo whom reminds me of Carlos Peña, he always swings trying to homer, but can’t hit breaking pitches.
a month ago you referred to eduardo nunez as “a proven offensive force”. today you say anthony rizzo is not a talented hitter
i think these facts speak for themselves
Well of course. Rizzo isn’t a Yankee yet.
…so you’re saying there’s a chance lol
(dumb and dumber reference)
Hey, as a baseball fan, look at it this way…How often can you say “It rules to be a Cub fan right now”?
Rizzo was 21 in the toughest hitting environment in MLB, with huge pressure as the centerpiece for a franchise player. A 21yo 1B with a .331/.404/.652 line in AAA with 26 HR in 360 ABs is amazing
I think the fact is also tht Petco punishes lefties, but I did not see the urgency to trade the guy and upgrade the bullpen of all things.
just to get the facts straight, casey kelly was the centerpiece of that deal. hoyer repeatedly said the deal wouldn’t have been made w/o kelly.
A big dog in what? Obviously not baseball analysis. How can you compare a rookie with limited playing time to a veteran? Did you see Rizzo’s MiLB numbers? Your comparison is inane.
Dude… THAT was all it took to get Rizzo? Even if he was blocked, surely SOMEONE was willing to give up a little more.
Find it funny that Theo managed to get the kid back.
Why weren’t more teams in on Rizzo at that price?
I would love an answer to that *cough* RAYS *cough*
So mad the A’s could have easily had Rizzo for Brad Peacock, who’s infinitely better than Cashner.
Was that the rumor? If so, wow!
No, im just saying thats a better deal for SD, that I’m sure Beane would have pulled the trigger on.
The Athletics already have a logjam at 1B: Allen, Barton, Carter, Ka’Ahuie…Rizzo would have further muddied the waters for Oakland.
Rizzo is better than all those guys except maybe Barton.
if by muddied you mean make allen, barton, carter and kila all expendable, than yes.
I love it when we agree on things!
Sad truth.
Padres asked for the moon and the stars for Rizzo, except of course to Cubs, as a payback from Byrnes to Hoyer and Epstein for their marvelous years together as red sox.
Yeah, the Rays could’ve beaten that offer without even flinching.
Perhaps a lot of teams doubt Rizzo??? Dunno
Murphy to the Rays!
Biggest one-sided trade of the whole offseason.
Presumably this now turns the focus to Starlin Castro’s alleged sexual assault…
What is there to focus on? Nothing, all people can do is speculate.
Figured it would at least be reported…
I’m just saying there is nothing to focus on. You really can’t do anything about it. That is all I was trying to say.
stop trolling cubs boards. get a life
No, he’s right. The whole Castro thing is going to be a hot topic here in Chicago.
these situations are so tricky.. while a serious offense, history has taught us that often celebrities & athletes are targeted by women because even in the event that it isn’t true, they can still usually get a here keep quiet and go away paycheck.
I think it’s payback to Theo for hiring Jed, opening the door for a second chance for Josh.
[Gotta love disqus, eh?]
Loving this! I’m friends with Cashner and don’t like the Cubs so it is nice, although it looks like the Cubs might have won this at first glance
Sweet bro.
Giving up Cashner hurts, but the acquisition of Volstad allowed Epstein and company to move him for a young stud at 1B. I’m interested in learning more about the pitcher that came over with Rizzo.
YESSSSSSSS!
This is the best the Padres could do? I realize that Rizzo is not a complete hitter just yet, but I have to believe there were better offers to be had.
When the rumor about the Rays trading for Rizzo in order to flip him to the Cubs came up a week ago, I asked if the Cubs would be open to trading Cashner for Rizzo. A couple of people replied back saying the Padres wouldn’t be interested but I guess they were wrong.
Honestly, those are probably pretty few and far between.
What is next for Theo? Jacoby Ellsbury? All kidding aside. I won’t be surprised if he restructures Cubs payroll so they can chase Ellsbury in two years time when Jacoby becomes a free agent.
Ellsbury is too risky, he is fragile and quits on his teammates rather easily (that’s part of the reason why he never talks with his teammates, he became stranded from his teammates after Youkilis confronted him about faking injuries to avoid playing, you know, like Pedro and Manny used to do).
Right, he’s fragile because all of his multiple injuries, like his broken ribs and… well… yeah… his broken ribs. And Youkilis didn’t like the fact that he stayed in Arizona after getting checked out by a specialist instead of coming back and being with the team (even though he couldn’t play), it had nothing to do with him “faking injuries to avoid playing,” good try though.
They really didn’t…trust me.
However, it’s nice to see that they chose to.
I wish I knew what you were replying to. Now I’ll be up till 2am trying to figure this out. Damn you disqus, damn you to hell!
If you go to the Disqus site (disq.us), you can sign in, look at comments, and they have a button called “Context,” which shows you the previous message.
Theo, Theo, Theo. This is why I can’t figure out why Hoyer went to the Cubs. Every deal that looks good will be a Theo deal and everyone that back fires will be Hoyers’ doing. I have never seen a “president” of a baseball team mentioned more than Theo. I am amazed no one has gotten a quote from Garfinkel, the Padres president.
I agree. I though Jed Hoyer was the GM.
21 year old who had an OPS of 1056 at AAA….that’s worth a lot more than this.
PCL is the friendliest hitters league in the world.. the 1056 OPS should be taken with a grain of salt..
he didn’t surpass .858 OPS, which was his previous high for any level before AAA.
still valuable, just saying.
This. Brandon Allen comes to mind as another young PCL masher.
Brandon Allen was 2 years older than Rizzo
True. I’m not saying Allen is a better prospect or nearly as good as Rizzo. I’m just saying he comes to mind.
Well that does make sense, but as a 21 year old with a high ceiling who was basically the centerpiece of the Ade-Gon deal…this is still the most one-sided trade of the offseason. I really cant believe Byrnes did this. I wouldnt complain if MLB reversed it, its so bad. Theo must have gotten Byrnes wasted during negotiations.
I-I can’t believe I’m going to utter these words but: It’s a good day to be a Cubs fan.
Ugh, going to go throw up now.
Pretty sure Casey Kelly was the A-Gon deal centerpiece…
Then, by some magic touch of Theo Epstein, the Cubs fleece someone for Garza, tank their way to the 2013 #1 overall pick and get some obscene elite talent.
Ugh.
And he looks absolutely lost at the plate at the big league level. 46 k in 128 AB? Can you say AAAA?
I was honestly thinking Cashner was going to move into the SU spot this year with no Marshall. Sorta iffy on this deal, Like Rizzo, but Cashner could be a potential closer or still be a starter for 2013 season at least.
Most of the pitchers in the Cubs farm project as relievers, so unless they saw Cashner as a top 3 starter down the road, this moves makes a lot of sense. I agree, I think he was best suited as a set up/closer from what we have seen so far. Really liked him, but this move makes a lot of sense, especially with Rizzo only being 22.
Suppose Cashner’s health has always been a question. Your right though we do have some bullpen depth.
Also Zach Cates isn’t some throw-in, he was the pads 3rd round pick in 2010.
Cashner could be a closer, but they also have potential closers in Carpenter and Dolis who are just as good, if not better than Cashner, so this is a GREAT deal
You just got a 22 year old top prospect who will play 1B everyday for an inexperienced injury plagued reliever and youre iffy on it? You should be planning a pizza party to celebrate right now.
What’s happening with Bryan LaHair? Position change? His AAA numbers are massive.
Yeah they are, better than Rizzo’s even, I’m thinking they move him to 3rd or the outfield if Soriano gets dealt.
difference being that LaHair is 29, my thought is Rizzo starts the season in Iowa to see what he can do there.
Great points everyone.
We may need to teach Rizzo or LaHair to play short, if Starlin really was stupid enough to sexually assault some inebriated girl in his hotel room. Anyway, I’d let Rizzo play 1st., and LaHair takes over LF for Soriano…At least he will hustle. And, if Castro is unavailable, who plays short?
Seriously? You don’t move power hitting 1st baseman to short. Neither has the speed or range to play short. This isn’t little league.
It will be interesting to see if Rizzo is automatically the starting 1B at the beginning of the season.
LaHair will not to go to the outfield. Quade tried that last year at moments and it was just as bad as Soriano’s defense. If Soriano gets dealt, it will be Byrd in LF and Jackson will play CF.
Yeah but he didn’t impress in 200 big league ABs and is too old to be considered a prospect. He could be one of those players who’s AAAA.
Have to like this deal for the Cubs.
I liked Andrew Cashner and in a way it is sad to see him go (he was one of the few decent pitching prospects we had). But I was also worried about his ability to be a starter long-term. This was a guy who missed basically the entire year after making one start. Maybe he’s healthy from now on in his career, but that is a worrisome beginning.
No matter what teams are involved, if you are offered Rizzo for Cashner, you say YES as loud and quickly as possible and then you grab Rizzo and jump in the car and split. Absolute highway robbery of the offseason, no matter how much you “liked” some injury plagued inexperienced 25 year old pitcher.
Failing to see the point of your post. “No matter what teams are involved?” Well that would be the Cubs and Padres, since that is who had the two players involved in the deal.
“You say yes… and jump in the car and split?” Yes, I said I liked the deal. It was the very first sentence in fact.
“No matter how much you ‘liked’ some injury plagued inexperienced 25 year old pitcher.” Did I mention the first sentence? I feel like I did. And one injury, however serious, does not make one “injury plagued,” though it clearly makes the player riskier and the deal better. It feels oddly like I said that before too. It’s like I made a post before this one that said everything you did. Weird!
Did you have something to actually add, or is this just another one of those You Being You posts that I should move on from and ignore?
Failing to see the point of your post. “No matter what teams are involved?” Well that would be the Cubs and Padres, since that is who had the two players involved in the deal.
“You say yes… and jump in the car and split?” Yes, I said I liked the deal. It was the very first sentence in fact.
“No matter how much you ‘liked’ some injury plagued inexperienced 25 year old pitcher.” Did I mention the first sentence? I feel like I did. And one injury, however serious, does not make one “injury plagued,” though it clearly makes the player riskier and the deal better. It feels oddly like I said that before too. It’s like I made a post before this one that said everything you did. Weird!
Did you have something to actually add, or is this just another one of those You Being You posts that I should move on from and ignore?
Bud Selig should void this trade due to “Baseball reasons”
What because a couple of former Red Sox employees got together for a back boardroom trade? You expect a lot from Bud Selig.
He didn’t do anything about the Phillies and Astros connection, so why would he do anything about this? There is some hope though David Stern did void the Chris Paul Trade with the Lakers. I know different league, different leadership skills. So there is some hope, not much but some.
PS I am disappointed the Orioles couldn’t have traded for Rizzo
PPS I am thinking the Padres didn’t do business with the Blue Jays (Latos Trade) because of the same reasons. Good Ol Boys network.
I honestly thought the day Hoyer said peace out to SD that there would be some “Buddy to buddy” trades between these 2 teams, Hoyer just had to get out of town, let things blow over and then make his move….I thought he woud go after latos too but he went elsewhere.
I like the cut of your gib, sir. This trade makes no sense to anyone…unless you look at whos making it.
Dont forget the kind words the Padres owner said about the Cubs owner, no compenation for taking our GM. The Cubs owner sitting in the Padre owners box last year. There is much more behind the scenes on this trade then meets the eye. No way is Cashner equal value to Rizzo, not even close; furthermore, the Padres do not need anymore pitchers at this time, they need shortstops. Why on earth did Byrnes not get the number two rated Cubs prospect Baez [probably would not make the Padre top ten] in addition to Cashner? That trade would have been a little more understandable.
It’s different though, because the NBA actually owns the hornets, which is weird.
You know I forgot about that. Once Shinn was gone, I thought they got a new owner. Anyway, this trade doesn’t seem right to me.
I have been fairly happy with the trades made so far, but this one has me scratching my head. This is the best the Padres could do for someone that was a main piece of the A-Gon trade?
I would have been happier if the name was Blanks instead of Rizzo for this return. Think we gave up on him a little too soon.
I think the weirdest part is they traded Latos for Alonso, knowing they had Rizzo. They blocked their own top prospect, and basically guaranteed they’d be moving Rizzo. So if you’re a Padres fan, don’t you have to look at it as Latos/Rizzo for Volquez, Alonso, Grandal, Boxberger, and Cashner. I don’t know if that makes it any more palatable from your perspective though.
I love that the Cubs got Rizzo, but I hate to see Cashner go…And now for sure they better keep Garza.
why keep garza?
Because before this trade, I liked the idea of Cashner in the rotation if Garza left…Without either one, the Cubs have Dempster and a bunch of ‘projects’ starting for them. (T. Wood, Volstad, Wells, and Samardzija may all have good seasons, but I’m not counting on it.)
Brynes should slow down on the trades now, everyone loves trades but this dude likes to make 1 every week like he’s playing a video game.
Aaaaaand, the Padres didn’t EVEN get Garza out of the deal!
Padres didn’t even ask for Soriano either!
Why would they want either one?
Garza for draft picks/deadline trade for prospects? He’s good.
I was being sarcastic.
Garza to SD actually makes this trade even. It would take that much to even it up. Wow.
Now we got to get rid of Soriano and stick LaHair in left field and we have a good 1-5. Castro, DeJesus, Byrd, Rizzo, LaHair. Maybe not the number one team, but maybe number 3
LaHair will not play LF. Quade tried him there last year and his defense was just as bad as Soriano. He’s slow and isn’t the “athlete” that Soriano was to make the transition to outfield. If Soriano gets dealt, Byrd will be in LF and Jackson will be our CF.
LaHair=Jake Fox redux. Come on people.
In a sense. At least he has a position where he can play average defense. I don’t think Fox did. But I’d be shocked if Rizzo isn’t playing by June.
And Rizzo as Tyler Colvin
That’s still a bad lineup, with a poor rotation, and a meh bullpen. Cubs will be fighting to stay out of the basement.
Hmm I like it! I wonder if this means the cubs will keep Matt Garza now that Rizzo is in the fold?! Carlos Pena set the bar pretty low outside of the power stats so Rizzo should be viewed very positively should he post decent numbers.
Once again the Tortoise beats the LaHair!
Hoping this one turns out to be like the K. Greene for Gregerson deal and not the old school D. Lee deal. If Byrnes Trades Headley next and others we are going to have a entire new team lol which is not a bad thing at all
Derrek Lee brought back Kevin Brown and without him the Padres would have not made it to the World Series in ’98. Sometimes you have to give to get, unfortunately today all the Padres did was give.
How is Rizzo’s defense? Is he able to scoop the bad throws and save some errors?
It’s always been claimed as above average. Better than Alonso.
Not one mention in the article about Jed Hoyer acquiring Rizzo twice in as many years? I am disappoint.
Step one: Jed Hoyer acquires Anthony Rizzo from Theo Epstein.
Step two: Jed Hoyer and Theo Epstein move to Chicago.
Step three: Jed Hoyer and Theo Epstein acquire Anthony Rizzo from a third part.
You just can’t make this kind of stuff up!
I like how you broke that down….good man, Hoyer probably told Rizzo to tank his AB’s last year and act like he cant hit any breaking stuff, watch him rake in Chi-Town lol ” Anthony I need you to take a dive this year, you just have to trust me on this, I’ll get us both to a better team” – I bet thats how it went down jk
you mean step 1: Jed Hoyer drafts anthony rizzo.
I left that out because it establishes a pattern of unsettling and controlling behavior that results.
“I missed you, Tony. Don’t think you can get away from me. I own you.”
Step 5: Jed Hoyer adopts Anthony Rizzo as his son.
OK I actually lol’ed at that.
Not sure what to make of this when there were rumors about a Rizzo/Wade Davis swap just last week. Seems like a big step down in terms of a return. I guess we Padres fans will have to wait and see how the chips fall the rest of the off-season, because I don’t think Byrnes is done yet. This is the first move he’s made that doesn’t seem to make much sense on the surface, but it may be a precursor to something else.
I would agree with you if the return had been Garza, then flipping him would bring back a decent return. Dealing Rizzo for Cashner doesn’t really help out any other deals that the Padres may have in mind umless someone else is ridiculously high on Cashner. A Headley deal, which is really the only deal left on the table, could have been made without giving Rizzo away. Byrnes was looking like a genius, but this one looks and smells bad.
I was surprised the Rays didn’t make a bigger offer than what the Cubs gave up. Maybe they’re not sold on Rizzo? Or maybe they really, really like their pitching depth.
I was expecting either Wade Davis or Niemann in a Rizzo deal, based on some of what I had read. This return seems….light. Yeah, we’ll call it ‘light’. Maybe the interest around the league wasn’t as high as some thought. I think this Na kid is basically minor league roster fodder, so they better hope they get something out of Cashner. Time will tell…
Better update that top 5(?) surprising trades of the off season.
Rizzo hitting bombs to right field at Wrigley? BOOOOM! Nice move Theo
Nice move Jed. Lets give the GM some praise.
We all know who really runs that FO
Could this be a precursor to a Soriano trade? LaHair would probably be better in left than Soriano and has higher upside. Not the ideal left fielder, but if LaHair and Rizzo are raking in spring training……..you have options. Good trade Theo.
Was thinking that too, but meh Lahair seems like an average defender in LF.
It wouldnt be LaHair in LF. They would bring Jackson up at the end of May if anything.
I don’t think this trade is a precursor to any trade, it was more like “Hey you want Cashner for Rizzo, yeah didnt thin—wait WHAT?????”
Rizzo’s stock must have dropped a lot in 1 year to go from being traded for Adrian Gonzalez to Andrew Cashner.
You make it seem like it was Rizzo for Gonzalez…
1 year of Adrian Gonzalez and he was part of a trio of prospects to get traded.
His stock hasn’t really fallen at all.
If anything it would have been higher
Ah shoot. I was hoping the Cubs would take David Cooper from the Jays as part of a Garza deal… (He WAS the PCL batting champ…)
baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=cooper…
As a Jays fan, I was hoping for too. David Cooper has no future in Toronto and with the numbers he’s put last year I think he’s at his highest trade value now.
PCL batting champ as a 24 year old, with 9 HR’s as a 1B.
the previous 2 years in AA he didn’t surpass .770 OPS
he hit nearly twice as many doubles as he ever did last year, can we say PCL inflation?
he has minimum trade value
I’m assuming Rizzo is at least an above-average defender or else Theoyer wouldn’t basically trade a young SP for him. Starlin is going to wear Rizzo out.
Without looking at any defensive metrics, he certainly passed the eye test when he was up in SD. Not Gonzalez level mind you, but more than passable.
Good, because Pena saved the Cubs a ton of runs in ’11.
In light of recent off-field developments, I certainly hope so!
Cashner, a former first-rounder with a near triple-digits fastball and control problems. This guy is better than what most people think, he’s only been pitching for two years, he’s also under team control through what? 5 years? yeah you could say the Cubs won this deal but you never know, Rizzo is still a prospect which doesn’t mean much in the bigs.
I agree big time.
Yep. And you have to look at Rizzo’s #’s before his breakout year.
Not a no-doubt win for the Cubs.
Cashner has 60 IP… it’s not like he’s a proven veteran.
Rizzo back to the Red Sox as compensation for Theo? hahaha
That would be amazing!!
then trade adrian gonzalez to the jays for farrell.
You guys dont think Cashner has front of the rotation stuff?
I think he does, but he has some command issues and those health concerns. You just don’t know if he can make a full season as a starter. He’s only been starting for a few season in the minors since he was a closer in college.
Also Byrnes GM for Pads said Cashner will be in the pen next year. Cubs have some really good arms to make up for his loss there, but he definitely still has a lot of potential to be a good starter. I like the deal, not gonna say its a steal but something that does seem like it helps both teams.
I really like Cashner, but he has to be a starter to make this deal a good one for the Padres.
Unless Rizzo bombs and Cashner is at the least an effective set up man.
Agreed, unless Cashner becomes the next Hoffman.
As a Cubs fan, the health issues scared me to death. But Mark Prior may have something to do with that.
If he can’t start, he should still be able to be a very good closer. His stuff was fantastic. Back when they were talking about trading Marmol a few weeks back, I assumed they’d slot Cashner in at closer for the season, then work him into the rotation in 2013 if his arm held up. I guess that’s someone else’s problem now, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Padres try a similar plan; back end of the bullpen for a year to build up his arm, then try a move to the rotation. You have to think they view him as a starter still, because Rizzo is a lot to give up for a guy you think can only be a reliever.
Fielder to the Padres! Make it happen Brynes (typing while dreaming) his fat butt can actually hit the ball far enough to put up numbers at Petco.
You’re DAMN RIGHT it’s worth noting that Byrnes worked with Hoyer and Epstein in Boston
before becoming Arizona’s GM in 2005.
I’m sick of this nonsense – are they aware they’re allowed to call other teams whose front offices they aren’t necessarily buddy-buddy with?
Full Trade conversation “Wad up Jedi this is Josh, what are you up too broheim?” – brynes, “Not much man just smoked a bowl with Theo about to play some Madden” – Jed, “Awesome Awesome Did you still want you some Rizzo?” -Brynes “Fo Sho straight up for Cashner?” – Jed ” Ya cool man fax me the forms and though in a Korean OF” -Brynes – “Fax is coming your way you sexy beast”- Jed – Deal done
sounds like a future episode of how i met your mother
Love that the Cubs get Cates as well he has some really good upside with a plus fastball and an above avg curveball, could also develop an avg change as well. Alot of people thought he could be a 1st supp. pick but he fell to the third for signability problems.
She went to the hospital 12 hours later
I’ve got no skin in this one, but it looks like a huge win for the Cubs. Maybe the new era is actually real for them, Hendry never makes this deal.
Man, this deal stinks.
You’re a Padre fan, does this make any sense? As compensation for Hoyer leaving, the Padres were suppossed to have a small group of minor league players to choose from the lower levels of the Cubs system. With Byrnes “throwing” in Cates, to really make this deal look lopsided, could the pool of players he is able to choose from as compensation possibly grown? This would make sense, because now the Padres may have a shot at a player that was previously “off limits”. Possibly a guy like Junior Lake, who has a shot, albeit small, of staying at SS. This may sound like a conspiracy theory, but I’m just trying to figure out why Byrnes would make such a crazy trade after having such a great off season up until this point. The theory makes sense though doesn’t it?
Ehhh, I doubt it, I’d assume it’d look just as ugly to the Cubs fanbase if now the compensation they’re giving up is as lopsided as the Padres’ end of this trade. Maybe maybe maybe though (seeing how Cubs’ FO covets Rizzo), there’s a sort of handshake agreement, with Hoyer/Epstein promising Byrnes a better selection/more prospects.
Where have you been? I sent this message over a week ago. J I wasn’t/am not enamored with the Quentin deal, but this is by far Byrnes’ most questionable move so far as Padres GM. Let’s hope hw knows what he is doing. Go Padres.
Haha sickness and school, the devils of my life. Without a doubt, most puzzling/disturbing move. I think he’s done more right than wrong, but this (and the Quentin deal to a lesser degree) worry me.
What on Earth does Theo have on the Padres organization? How is it that this guy keeps screwing with the Padres, even with a different organization?
don’t ask questions you don’t want the answer to, buddy
Really happy we got Rizzo, but damn I really liked Cashner.
I have no idea what the Pads were thinking.
I like everything Byrnes has done up until this point, but this deal sucks! We definitely did not get enough for Rizzo, especially to also give up Cates who had a very decent 2010 season. Once again, this is another prime example of Theo Epstein raping the Padres. It makes me sick. This better pan out for us…we should have definitely received much, much more.
Theo and Co. just keep making me proud. If the Cubs could swing a Soriano deal with the O’s or Braves, I’d be in heaven.
And Hoyer just sits back and collects a paycheck. Man, it’s crazy how Hoyer gets no credit for anything.
I find it very annoying.
Ah, good point. He and McLeod do get lost in the shuffle. Consider it amended.
well he did say “and Co.”
So much potential for someone who didn’t even hit .200 in the majors. Yeah I know all your excuses “he’s young” “tough environment” “not consistent playing time” etc, but you guys only bring this crap up when it’s someone you like but conveniently throw it out the window when trying to bash someone.
He has inflated numbers from the PCL, which was conveniently left out in this case because you all usually hate on anyone with good numbers in the PCL. Rizzo may pan out but probably won’t be more than league average just like Cashner
You sound like someone whose Mommy didn’t love him enough.
Sorry man, I don’t get my jollies off by participating in witty internet exchanges. Try someone else.
“You sound like someone whose Mummy didn’t love him enough.”Fixed it for you.
what about Rizzo’s 4 previous seasons of success in minor league ball?
This is another thing. Not attacking you personally, but I often hear people cite “stats in the PCL are inflated” or that “minor league stats” don’t necessarily mean anything. I guess I’m wondering, when do they apply and when do they not.
When will Rizzo be labeled a AAAA player. I mean I understand to expect him to come in mashing is unreasonable, but hitting less than .200 in 100+ major league at bats?
his stats we’re definitely inflated.. as I wrote elsewhere in this thread, before you wrote your post. but its 1000+ OPS thats inflated..
even if you deduct the park factors and such, its still a very good year, the key being that his is 21..
Every other year he has been younger than his competitors and posted OPS between .800-.850. thats still very good… so yes while the PCL did inflate his stats, he still had a good year and is still a good prospect, with a ton of potential
and LOL to your edit, the kid was 21 last year, absolutely no stock should be taken in his batting average
I don’t know what’s funny about the edit. I added the last paragraph. The gist of my argument wasn’t changed at all.
I’m laughing at the content of what you added. he’s 21 years old and you’re criticizing his BA?
most kids his age would have spent last year in AA
Right now, looks like a W for the Cubs. Although they need young arms, and Cashner is one of the best they have, Rizzo is a nice gamble. Don’t know anything about the other two guys.
I bet all those Padres fans saying that Rizzo wasn’t worth Wade Davis/Jeff Niemann are wishing they had one of those two now.
We actually said that “Rizzo was worth more than Davis/Niemann” and apparently we don’t have the same opinion as Byrnes. 🙂
You guys got Rizzo on the North side? Nice! I wanted the Sox to make a push for him for the future. He is a good player.
Sox don’t need a 1B for 2012 or even 2013. They could draft one this summer, Andy Wilkins could progress nicely, or they could trade for one still.
Yeah, I know. He’s just a player I like though. Pauly’s going to give us 30 + HR’s for the next couple years anyways.
Hopefully. And I happen to be pretty high on Andy Wilkins anyway.
Well, that explains the comment! Cheers! LMAO
Hoyer deserves some praise for this this trade
Hoyer will NEVER get praise while Theo is around, but you can surely believe Jed will be the first to go when things go bad. It’s messed up.
Hoyer should have just ridden it out in San Diego. Moorad would have had to have given him an extension the way things “were” going in San Diego until todays trade.
Theo’s smart. He realized the overall value in Rizzo who is 22 compared to Cashner who is 25. Overall, you guys are going to like Rizzo. He has some pop! Just a good player all around. Go look at his stats in the farm.
Rizzo is going to be good, he’s battled cancer, and is going to be a solid major leaguer. Cashner is a good young pitcher, but I would take the postion player in this deal. The Cubs could have a nice young infield in a few years. Rizzo, Barney, Castro, and Vitters in 2013.
Nice trade so no more Prince in Chicago. Another team out of the running for Fielder. Jays or Mariners would be ideal for this guy I think. Or he can choose to go back to Milwaukee. I hope he does not go to Florida.
I just wanna say to all those talking about this being an automatic win for the Cubs its not. I say it’s a win for both teams because Cashner will fair very well at Petco and will develope nicely there, while Rizzo will move into a hitter’s ballpark and fair a bit better.
Wait til you see his Giant swing, every pitcher that faced hm last year knew exactly how to get him out. He swings over the top and threw almost every breaking ball inside…in AAA however he killed anything thrown his way so who knows
Ya cashner may “fair very well” if he comes back from shoulder surgery
What’s the point of trading one of your best pitchers for a guy that will start in Iowa, at least get a guy whose ML ready.
I really hope they trade Soriano next. They should give Brett Jackson the CF spot. They could get alot for Byrd. Not just for his value as a player but he’s a great clubhouse guy. He’s the oppoisite of Glenallen Hill always smiling.
because the cubs are going to suck this year regardless, so might as well have the player in your farm system with way more upside and will help you when your TEAM is more likely to succeed
The point is that the Cubs don’t WANT players who are Major League ready. THEY are not Major League ready as a team, and I say that as a Cubs fan.
Frankly I hope you’re right about Rizzo starting in Iowa too. I’d like to see what LaHair is really made of. He has been labeled a AAAA player, but that is not entirely fair; he never got a significant shot in the Majors to make that assessment. If it turns out he can really hit, I’m sure we’d find a place on the team for him even with Rizzo waiting in the wings — or turn him into a strong trade chip.
Hoyer made it sound like Rizzo will start the year in Iowa.
Yeah, I saw that after I made my post. Good, I’m glad. It will probably help Rizzo himself and give LaHair time to show who he is in the majors.
Seriously?
Excellent for the Cubs and Rizzo! He is a favorite of mine from the Sox farm… he can mash and hopefully grow into the Cubs 1B for a long time. Padres didn’t seem to get much value. I would think the Rays would offer more.
This is why I’m glad the Padres got Byrnes as a Dbacks fan. Yes he’ll make the occasional good trade, but to trade a top prospect who is 22 and had a bad month in the majors for a terrible pitcher in Cashner… Yes he won the Latos trade, but he may have just lost it with this move if Rizzo pans out and Alonso has just a mediocre career (he is almost as unproven in the MLB as Rizzo).
the same is true if Rizzo flops and Alonso succeeds. It’s a crap shoot. alonso has already had success in the majors while Rizzo is still very much unproven.
That’s why you keep both until you’re certain or overwhelmed. Brynes should be ashamed of this one.
As a Padre fan I too think that the Cubs won this trade, but I wouldn’t say Cashner is terrible.
As a Cub fan i agree with you. Cashner can be great if he stays healthy
This is why I’m glad the Padres got Byrnes as a Dbacks fan. Yes he’ll make the occasional good trade, but to trade a top prospect who is 22 and had a bad month in the majors for a terrible pitcher in Cashner… Yes he won the Latos trade, but he may have just lost it with this move if Rizzo pans out and Alonso has just a mediocre career (he is almost as unproven in the MLB as Rizzo).
For the record, Cashner isn’t terrible.
no but he has had many arm problems and a shoulder surgery, which is never a good thing for pitchers
Ha Ha! Boy Blunder still believes in his overrated Rizzo enough to give away future 20 game winner Cashner to the Pads. Sorry Cubbies fans, your owners made a big mistake. I just wish he was still making the mistakes for the BloSox!
By the sounds of things, Cashner has a better chance of saving 40 games in San Diego than winning 20 for them. I wish you were right about Cashner staying in the rotation.
20 game winner? You must not have seen him pitch. He would struggle to pitch 20 games in a season, let alone win 20. He is a set up man for a good team and possible closer for a bad team like the padres will probably be the next couple of years.
LOL!!
it feels wierd and wrong to not lol at the cubs. nice trade for them
The Adrian Gonzalez trade looks a lot crappier if you look at the return as Andrew Cashner, Casey Kelly, Raymond Fuentes and Eric Patterson.
to be fair he wasn’t going to resign after that year anyways and it was hard to see any other team being able to offer a better package and sign him to the extension he wanted.
Great trade for the cubs!! they got an killer AAA player!!and an unproven major league player.
Padres also got an unproven major league player, however, at least Cashner made it to the big leagues and made somewhat of a splash, albeit a small one.
So far the Cubs look like a team that is building the Farm system 4 years 2 come some trades make sense others may look lame look at the Big Z DEAL…It was a Salary dump trade Yes the Cubs rid themselves of a big Contact & saved themselves of Cancer No rehab required…Volsted..? well U can’t win them all but No outbursts..No turmoil..better Clubhouse …Great move Theo…As 4 this current trade 4 Rizzo trade it’s a farm system move & insurance policy 4…Lahair…
its not that hard to put “for” and “to” instead of numbers :/
Theo’s da man. Let’s throw our hands up and go home. He’s done more for the Cubs in 2 months than they could do in 10 years.
As a Padre fan all I can say is…. BS. The trades Byrnes has made made him look like he knew what he was doing, but this trade… is just inexcusable. It makes me sick to be a padre fan right now, I already knew 2012 was going to be a wasted year, but now Byrnes is even throwing away the future by dealing the best prospects/trade chips for older players with less potential. Byrnes should be embarrassed of himself right now.
2016? if that’s true Ricketts, Epstein, Hoyer, Sveum will all be leaving the north side.
Big market teams should not have 4 years to rebuild. 1 or 2 and then after you purge bad contracts (Zambrano gone, Soriano going, Dempster in his last year) sign productive free agents. Cub fans should not wait pass 2013.
I honestly expect the Cubs to spend pretty big next offseason, because there is at least the potential for some very good starting pitching (Hamels, Cain and more) to be available and that is something that the Cubs desperately need and really don’t have coming.
As far as this season, I expect the purge to continue. I think Garza, Soriano and Byrd will all be gone by the deadline if not sooner. If Soto starts out strong after his down year, he might well be gone too. What we manage to get for those players will obviously dictate the approach for next season.
I honestly expect the Cubs to spend pretty big next offseason, because there is at least the potential for some very good starting pitching (Hamels, Cain and more) to be available and that is something that the Cubs desperately need and really don’t have coming.
As far as this season, I expect the purge to continue. I think Garza, Soriano and Byrd will all be gone by the deadline if not sooner. If Soto starts out strong after his down year, he might well be gone too. What we manage to get for those players will obviously dictate the approach for next season.
Ok Theo call Boston and ask for some ca$h and Crawford for $oriano.
Let’s see if you can get whatever you want?
I’m surprised how many people think this is a steal for the Cubs. Seems like maybe the Pads could have got more back for Rizzo for Cashner is no slouch. I don’t know if he’ll hold up as a starter but he could be the Pads next closer very soon. Rizzo is still young but man his debut didn’t leave much to be excited about. Long swing, lotsa strikeouts, meh.
Man I hope you’re right. I just think Byrnes is going a little over board with this whole bullpen thing as it was his achilles heel in Arizona. He has now traded 4 top 30 prospects in San Diegos’ system in the span of a week. This team is only going to be successful if they build from within and I know they will have to deal prospects once they are in contention, but I wouldn’t say they are close to contending quite yet. I’m hoping Byrnes knows what he’s doing. I guess if Cashner turns into the Padres next lights out closer, then everybody will have a different point of view.
You do realize that Rizzo was only 21 last year, right? Most prospects that age are still grinding it out in the low minors and that goes even for the highly rated. Rizzo then beat the crap out of the ball in AAA (I know, PCL and all, but still very impressive), a level most 21 year olds rarely see either.
Padres sold way low here. Given Cashner’s injury history there’s a much greater chance Rizzo sticks as a quality 1B than Cash does as a quality SP (and about the only way the Pads don’t lose this trade is if Cash sticks in the rotation). Even if Byrnes was as bearish as you are on Rizzo’s chances, you still hold onto him and see if you can get a better return than a young pitcher with limited starting experience and shoulder issues.
I’ll agree that it seems like the Padres may have sold low here, everyone seems to have a pretty high opinion of Rizzo. Maybe Byrnes feels like Rizzo’s star is going to fade? Prospects can lose their status with one down year. Michael Taylor’s season a couple years ago comes to mind.
I didn’t mean to come across like I think he’ll never make it, I just mean that everyone is acting like the Cubs got a guy who’s going to be a surefire .300/.400/.500 hitter in the future, and that’s not the case. He wouldn’t be the first guy to tear it up in the PCL and disappoint in the bigs.
you do realize that he’s 21 and has only had success at the minor league level. Everybody seems enamored with this kid but he hasn’t really done anything. To say he’s going to be a major star in the major may be a bit of a stretch considering many minor leaguers have had success. Not all of those players had success at the major league level.
just saying.
This is good, LOL
All the people saying this was a terrible trade for the cubs makes me lol