Only two teams had to pay luxury tax this year, and now they're both after the same pitcher. Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports reports (on Twitter) that both the Yankees and Red Sox are pursuing Hiroki Kuroda now that he's willing to leave California.
Kuroda, 37 in February, is one of the few remaining free agent innings eaters. The Yankees are said to like the veteran righty more than other available pitchers, and the Sox were reportedly trying to decide between signing Kuroda and trading for Gio Gonzalez as of a few days ago. With Gonzalez now in Washington, the decision has been made for them. Kuroda is looking for a $12-13MM annual salary.
Could the Yankees finally get themselves on the board this offseason?
EDIT: What is the Market like for Edwin Jackson. Suprisingly, Boras has been quiet about him all offseason. Didn’t a Fangraphs guy make a comparison between Edwin Jackson and John Danks? Would’ve thought he would garner a lot more interest by now.
I’m surprised as well, especially when the premium to trade for pitching has been astronomical.. E jacks really isn’t a bad option.
That’s why i’m kinda skeptical when it comes Cashman when he says there’s nothing he could do to improve the team. Statistics show that Jackson has improved since his first stint in the AL East and considering the current rotation of : CC, Nova, Burnett, Garcia, Hughes, I think the Jackson wouldn’t be a bad option for the #2 or #3 spot, and thereby slotting Hughes back into the pen where I believe he could thrive or even gain trade value by the summer.
Unless Jackson is asking for CJ Wilson money, I don’t see what’s preventing the Yankees from at least kicking the tires.
I get what your saying, Jackson is a good option, but is he that much better then what the Yankees have? (keep in mind the kids they have in the farm that could come up midseason) If Jackson is an upgrade its marginal at best. Ask this, is it really worth it to give a guy like Jackson, who is maybe only a marginal upgrade over what you have, a multi-year deal like he is asking for? I don’t believe Jackson is worth it on a multi-year deal, maybe a one year commitment like Kuroda and Oswalt are asking for.(also don’t forget he is a Boras client, he’ll milk the Yankees for every last penny!)
Didn’t realize he was looking for a multi-year deal because he is still relatively young. I would’ve thought he would ask for a 1-year deal to build value for next offseason(if the expected free agent class of pitchers do re-up with their teams). And I would guess that Banuelos and Betances would be September call-ups once again this season.
I think it’s unfair and unrealistic to expect Bans or Bets to come up and perform to the level that Jackson should be able to perform. Also, I’m sure they would have them on innings limits as well, considering neither has ever pitched more than 130 IP in a season.
Ejax would solidify the rotation and give the Yanks another 200 inning pitcher for the rotation. A rotation of CC-Jax-Nova with Hughes, Garcia and AJ battling it out for the final 2 spots would be solid. Let Bans and Bets play in AAA force the Yanks hands. If they are good enough Cash will find a way to create space for them, but realistically I can’t see him handing over BOTH a rotation spot in 2012 as long as there aren’t any serious injury or horrible performance issues from one of those 5 mentioned.
Edit: Provided Kuroda doesn’t sign w/ NY and Jax can be had for something like 3/$36 he would make a good signing.
I mentioned ManBan and Betances as sort of an explanation as to why it is not worth giving Jackson a multi-year deal. Apologies should have clarified further. I know both of them arent likely to see big league action this year but I said that to show that a multi-year deal is the wrong move for a guy like E-Jax. Plus I am not exactly an E-Jax fan either way, Kuroda is a much more palatable possibility. In my opinion, I see Kuroda as the better option because E-Jax numbers are too inconsistent.
Jackson k/9 6,67 and bb/9 2.76 is not good enough to commit to a long term contract for the Yanks. Kuroda’s k/9 7.17 and bb/9 2.17 and short term is more what the Yanks are looking for.
I don’t have any problem with either. As far as EJ is concerned, as long as it’s a 3 year deal for around $12 mil then I don’t see a problem. The differences between Kuroda’s K/9 and BB/9 are negligible. EJ’s FIP is lower and the fact that he pitched in the AL before helps him too. Kuroda did have the benefit of playing Dodger Stadium too.
Once Garza is traded, the market for Jackson will open up. If he compares well to Danks, I’d guess 4/48 is a good guess at his price…
Statistics also show that while Jackson has been getting better, he has also has not faced the AL East in more than 25% of his games per season since 2008:
In 2006 he faced the AL East in 10 of his 23 games (43.47%)
In 2007 he faced the AL East in 13 of his 32 game (40.62%)
In 2008 he faced the AL East in 16 of his 32 games (50.00%)
In 2009 he faced the AL East in 8 of his 33 games (24.24%).
In 2010 he faced the AL East in 5 of his 32 games (15.62%).
In 2011 he faced the AL East in 2 of his 32 games (06.25%)
And against the AL East Jackson owns a lifetime line of 15-15, 4.46 ERA and a 1.413 WHIP, which doesn’t sound too enticing.
I think what he did pre-2010 is irrelevant because he didn’t come into his own until 2010 and 2011. In 2010 his numbers were good in the 4 or 5 games he pitched vs the Rays, O’s and Sox.
I think what he did pre-2010 is irrelevant because he didn’t come into his own until 2010 and 2011. In 2010 his numbers were good in the 4 or 5 games he pitched vs the Rays, O’s and Sox.
Big money teams like the Yanks and Sox are looking for short term commitments like Kuroda, and teams like the Jays, Orioles, and Tigers are looking for a good deal.
It makes sense. Gio is off the board, along with CJ wilson, Darvish, etc. Once Oswalt is gone, Jackson is suddenly everyone’s last hope. And he becomes much needed and wanted.
Jackson could be the odd man out this year, it don’t think teams are that high on him. He might find it hard to get more than a 3 year contract.
For that much cash the Yankees can have him
Boras is doing the right thing by not offering Jackson until Oswalt and Kuroda get signed, then he can begin to offer him by comparing Jackson to Don Drysdale and Warren Spahn.
IF Jackson were to sign with Oswalt and Hiroki still available, he would have to sign for way less than what is being offered to Roy and Kuroda.
roy oswalt you fools
Aren’t you a Jays fan? Let one of them have Kuroda. Maybe the Jays could get Oswalt, seeing as he’s (supposedly) only looking for a one-year deal.
he’s a sox fan.
and I doubt oswalt would come to toronto. would be nice though
I agree it’s pretty unlikely. But I’ve learned to never say never. Maybe he’s the type of competitor who’d actually prefer the challenge of the AL East, rather than staying in the NL (or going to a pitcher-friendly park in the AL Central or West).
I don’t think its the challenge, because Jays offense is pretty legit too, so signing with boston he’d still have to face yanks and jays..
I think its the likelyhood of the jays competing.. if he’s on a 1 year deal, you have to imagine winning has to be the primary focus. jays can’t sell that yet.
True. But if he stays healthy, and the Jays aren’t in contention in late-July, they’ll most likely flip him to a contender, and I’m sure he knows that. So if the Jays have the highest offer, you never know…
or he can just sign directly with that contender?
If all other offers are as good, or better, as the Jays offer, then he’ll definitely sign elsewhere. But if the Jays offer him a few million more than anyone else, he might take it.
We’re not far apart on this. I’m just saying don’t rule it out entirely.
Here’s how I see it breaking down, the Jays get Jackson, the Yanks get Kuroda, the Nats get Oswalt, and the Sox get Garza.
I have a hard time seeing the Sox giving up what it would realistically take for them to get Garza (I also imagine the Cubs would get better offers than what the Sox could/would offer).
They were just in on Gio and almost gave up 4 prospects, Garza is better and might cost less in prospects. Look at it this way, the Sox need to win the series in the next 2 years with the team they have. The only positions they will need a player are C, 3b, RF, and P, so keep the best of those positions like Middlebrooks.
Agreed that Garza is better, but I don’t know how he would cost less in prospects. I was assuming he would cast as much or more.
One way the Sox could possibly make it happen would be to take Soriano as well, but that would require them abandoning the whole ‘stay around the luxury tax’ plan. I also think the cubs would be better off sucking it up and keeping Soriano, and his contract, and trading Garza by himself for full value.
i’d say he costs less based on control and salary. much less
Yeah, I wasn’t thinking about the fact that Gio has two more years of control, good point.
i’d say he costs less based on control and salary. much less
I’m not sure that Oswalt or Kuroda want to pitch in the AL East. They will pick the team they want to play for, similar to Beltran. Both are near the end of their careers and will pick the right fit for them. Sometimes for players of their age its location, family interests, team, that come first. All the teams mentioned are going to give them about the same money.
Hes a Red Sox fan
he’s confirmed he’s switching to a jays fan once we trade for justin upton.
Only two teams had to pay luxury tax this year, and now they’re both after the same pitcher. Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports reports (on Twitter) that both the Yankees and Red Sox are pursuing Hiroki Kuroda now that he’s willing to leave California.
The Orioles don’t have to worry about the Luxury Tax at least not with this ownership. Second, this line about Kuroda now that he’s willing to leave California.
Well he’s leaving beautiful sunny California because the Dodgers don’t want him and the Angels don’t have any room at the inn! Ditto for the Giants and the Padres aren’t going to be in contention anytime soon, plus they don’t have the payroll nor the desire to sign someone like Kuroda.
Come on Orioles step up for once, do this, do it for the fans!
PS MLB Hot Stove analyzed the Braves Orioles possible deal and the bottom line was Mitch Williams and the rest of the analysts feel the Braves know something about Jurrjens. Heyman thinks the Braves are giving up too much. As for little old me, I think it’s dumb because we don’t have a Centerfielder to replace Jonesy if we do the deal!
Well, Forbes has reported that the Padres have had three or four consecutive seasons with a 30+ million dollar profit per year and they’ve reduced their payroll again and managed to secure last place even before the season starts, that being said, they do have the money but simply are not willing to spend what their owner wants to invest in a new yacht.
Well they do have a gorgeous field in Petco.
I didn’t realize they were that profitable, I guess revenue sharing works for some. I did read yesterday that they have another 7 to 9 million in addtional payroll to spend. I am not sure what that amount buys anymore, but it wouldn’t get Kuroda that I do know.
Alot of teams are afraid of the Braves pitcher, when good ones are traded they usually don’t work out. Sometimes they are not injured like Vasquez when he went to the Yanks. I thought he was going to do well, but he didn’t. All players have to pass phyicals so teams should be ok unless your the Mets.
Thinking about Kuroda pitching in the AL East at 37 years old makes me cringe.
….why? He’s infallible as far as being intimidated by any team; his downside is run support. If you are worried your team isn’t going to score more than 3-4 runs per game on a consistent basis, then cringe away.
If Colon can be successful last year for the Yanks, then Kuroda can do well. It’s tough to say with pitching, Kuroda could end up being Vasquez, Dice K, or Lackey.
What about Colón and Freddy García last year?
Kuroda is solid. He has much more left in the tank than Oswalt. A likely 15-game winner with Yanks or Bosox.
I wonder if Bobby Valentine is pushing for him at all? I am not sure how much Bobby V would’ve seen him in Japan. I believe the team Valentine managed the Marines were in the Pacific League and the Carp where Kuroda played is in the Central League? I could be wrong though.
Bobby V thought Darvish was the best pitcher he had ever seen, yet the Sox didn’t even bid on him.
I hope the Sox land him, but their chances bidding against the Yankees I assume are slim.
12-13mil? No thanks. I’d give him that on a 2 year deal maybe. At that price range give me Oswalt for a season please.
If I’m the Yanks I sign Kuroda to 12 million for one year. The Yanks are loaded with pitching that is one year away. I look for either Hughes or Nova to turn into Ian Kennedy in the next 2 years along with AJ pitching closer to his 4.10 lifetime ERA. By the end of the year Baneulos, Betances, and Warren should be ready to contribute along with Noesi.
You mean like this?:
2012:
Sabathia
Kuroda
Burnett
Nova
Garcia/Hughes
2013:
Sabathia
Nova
Banuelos
Betances
Hughes
Well if Kuroda is #2 on the Yankees. What would he be on the Orioles?
The one thing I can’t believe I am the only Orioles fan blogging here.
While, I like being the “Lone Wolf”, I just don’t understand why no other O’s fan are jumping on the Pitching Bandwagon.
I would take and quite “Frankly” overpay for Kuroda and Oswalt than sign Prince Fielder any day of the week and twice on Christmas.
Tis the Season!
Have you met Rabbitov? O’s fan on this site. Usually pretty active, but haven’t seen much of him lately.
All
I don’t want to post several times because it’s silly
1.) MaineSox… ok, but like I said b4. If the O’s sign Fielder what would that do for the O’s? I would rather sign those two pitchers (Kuroda and Oswalt)
a.) they would help develop the pitchers we do have
b.) make us more competitve. AL East would have to take us seriously!
2.)Nicholas Bagg… how can you say that?? That’s terrible! =P. Trust me more exist!
3.) Ahhh East Coast Hello!
As for Rabbitov and the gang…. I last saw him with the Endy Chavez signing…. Rabbitov and the gang we saying how much they missed me, because I was quiet that day…I dunno where he is.
Ur right.. Not seen him much of late.. Couple of posts every few days is about it..
One knowledgeable/long time O’s fan on the site and hope Rabbitov does not stay gone for long.
Maybe is mad at “The Duke” and protesting? Kidding…
Perhaps you are the only Orioles fan?
Not trying to be a jerk, just realistic, but signing those guys isn’t going to make the O’s competitive so there’s really no reason to even consider it. Particularly guys like Kuroda and Oswalt who would be 12-15M deals and for only one year. The O’s need young guys who can be with the team for several years, not expensive older players who are going to be gone in a year.
The O’s signing a veteran pitcher on a 1 year is actually a very smart move in my opinion. It’s not so much about making then a contender (because it won’t) but maybe it won’t make them quite the “pushovers”, they can save the bullpen by eating innings, possibly mentor or be an example for the youngsters and if they are performing well then they can be used as trade bait to acquire a prospect or two. Essentially they would use them for 3 or 4 months before trading them for a younger asset.
What they MUST avoid though is giving a guy like EJax a multi-year deal simply because it’s a much longer commitment and his deal will be up by the time the other youngsters might be ready to help the team compete.
Agreed about EJax, and also agreed in principal about a veteran pitcher, but two pitchers who are both going to want $12-15M is not what they need. One of them maybe, maybe, but not both of them (a cheaper veteran would make more sense, and shouldn’t Guthrie be able to be that guy at this point anyway?).
I thought Buck could turn this team around but I just think this league is too tough.
The O’s need to see improvement from Britton and Maturz. Hold the fort until Bundy gets there.
Kuroda and Oswalt could very well help the Orioles to make up some ground on their division, specially beating other weak teams in the AL and playing 0.500 against the NYY and Toronto (Tampa is way harder to beat, and the Sox, well, they will retaliate for being eliminated by the brave Oriole players last season… you’ll see, they’ll hunt heads again).
I sincerely hope the O’s can play better this year with Showalter again as their manager, one of my favourite managers all around since he was with the Yanks (has a history of taking bad teams and improving them by changing the way his players see the game).
I would love to see Nova at 3rd and García as 4th with Burnett having the benefit of facing pitchers more of his caliber in terms of his ERA & WHIP. I don’t see the benefit of slotting Hughes as a starter seeing how his speed decreases way too much after the third inning. I would rather like to watch him in long relief a-la-Aceves, though, there are many other good pitchers way better than Aceves in the Mexican winter league that could serve that purpose in case the Yanks decide to trade Hughes.
PSAs a side note, Austin Romine’s brother, Andrew, said that he wouldn’t like to come back to the Mexican winter league because the level of its pitchers is bad… kind of funny considering he managed to hit just below 0.250 AVG / 0.304 OBP / 0.278 SLG… Plus he wasn’t liked because of his antics (he behaved as if he were a superstar, threw fits… etcetera).
Hughes was hurt last year and won 18 two years ago. The Yanks are going to give him every chance in the world to start this year. He was on the Verducci list last year because he was under 25 and increased his inning too much the year before. I wouldn’t count him out yet, even Joba was throwing great until he hurt his arm, he was throwing 97 again. It’s hard to tell with pitchers, look at Buckholz and Ian Kennedy.
2013 1- CC, 2- Cain, Hamels, Greinke, 3- Nova, 4- Hughes, 5- Banuelos.
Almost 2013 1 CC, 2 Hamels,Cain, 3 Nova, 4 Hughes, 5 Banuelos
i for one sox fan don’t want him
Kuroda: best case scenario at $12M – $13M is you get your money’s worth; no upside at that price.
I wouldn’t be upset with Kuroda, but I’d much prefer Oswalt.
One thing I like about Kuroda is the innings he’s put up over the past couple seasons when compared to Oswalt. We really need health more than anything. Of course, Kuroda is older so there’s always that risk, but still.
Oswalt actually has a much longer track record of pitching a lot of innings. Kuroda has only pitched more than 200 innings once in his career (last year) and just missed 200 once (196 the year before last); while, prior to this year, Oswalt had only been below 200 innings once in the last 7 years (181 innings in ’09).
(Kuroda has average 175 innings per year and Oswalt has averaged 196 innings per year)
The team the past couple of years has made me extremely injury-conscious, so I guess if we were sure that Oswalt’s injuries from this year were totally incidental then I would prefer him instead.
I had the misfortune of drafting Roy Oswalt as my #1 pitcher in my 2009 fantasy league, so I guess I might still be a little bitter about that, too 😛
The back could be somewhat of a concern, but honestly I think the need for a 200 innings pitcher is somewhat overblown because of the way the last couple of years ended, and I’m not convinced that Oswalt couldn’t be that guy anyway.
Also, Oswalt is a better pitcher than Kuroda when healthy, and the fact that Kuroda is 3 (or is it 4?) years older than Oswalt, plus (while the actual numbers don’t seem to be available) Kuroda pitching for ten years in Japan would lead me to believe that he threw a lot of pitches over there (that and he pitched so many complete games that his nick-name was ‘Mr. Complete Game’), makes me think he is at least as much of an injury concern going forward.
Oswalt is a better pitcher but has a high risk, Kuroda carries much less risk for the Yanks.
The only risk with Oswalt is his back, and if teams look at his medical (and do a physical) and feel that his back wont be an issue then he’s actually much less of a risk than Kuroda (and a better pitcher).
He had a back injury that is a risk, he is more of a risk than Dice-K and Lackey were and their not pitching.
I don’t know if any of that is more relevant than the fact that Kuroda has thrown an average of about 198 IP in each of the last two years.
Maybe, but based on their ages and career numbers the only way I would pick Kuroda to throw more innings than Oswalt is if Oswalt’s back is a lingering problem and we don’t know if that’s the case or not at this point (according to Oswalt and his agent it isn’t, but what else are they going to say).
Help me here please..
When Boston was looking at him at the time oswalt was an Astro.. Didn’t they get as far as his medicals and an issue came up with his back then?
Not that I remember, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Thx. Wasn’t sure.. Might have been poor memory on my part there.
If the Red Sox can’t sign Oswalt and the Yankees get Kuroda in the meantime, this will have been a disaster for Cherington.
Boston does not need a pitcher really of either caliber to slot 1-3, but then if they are going to spend 10-12m on a starter anyway, why not spend 13-14m and get someone with better stuff, who didn’t have the benefit of a Grand canyon type stadium to throw half of his games in?
Oswalt, back issues and all is the better guy out there and would slot above Bucholz, where Kuroda would slot behind Buch, with the cost nearly the same.
If they can get neither, just continue looking for back of the rotation filler pieces as they probably were already.
IMO, unless the LAD are thinking of moving someone like Billingsly who would probably have success anywhere, i wouldn’t trust anyone coming out of a NL large park for the most park moving to the AL East, taking out people like Cain, Lincecum of course from SF.. Too many people take just stats from huge, pitcher friendly NL stadiums and think these people will translate to the AL and it’s just not always so.
No a knock on you there, but see this here all the time.
Well, in Kuroda’s case, his career ERA and career SIERA are both pretty much the same, so I wouldn’t be as nervous about a lot of pitchers in the big NL parks.
Regardless, the Sox *do* need a SP like these guys in order to rebound. There needs to be a large, tangible improvement over last year (aside from “no John Lackey,” which is pretty good on its own). Besides that, we need another innings-eating pitcher in order to help out the bullpen, because right now it’s in a pretty sorry state (especially with Bard and Aceves slotted for the rotation).
Agreed they need to find someone who threw 150+ innings over the last couple of years and bring them into camp. I have a feeling when ST rolls around there is not going to be a big name involved, they seem too wrapped up in a nickel and dime off season to me after ortiz too the arbitration offer, maxing them out or close to it.
Why wheels were spinning with me most of the off season on Volstad, but then found out (late) the Fish offered arbitration so he is out.. Now am hoping the Fish pick up some other rubbish type guy and will nearly give away Volstad in a move.
Wandy Rodriquez is still a name if Houston will take almost nothing back in exchange, another guy have watched a lot is Ricky nolasco, who is owed a boatload of cash, just like wandy. Difference is Nolasco can at least throw the ball 92-94mph and even though one looks at Rodriquez’s stats and the look better, have doubts they would look anything like that at fenway and Nolasco think could put up the same thing he did with the Fish.
Is what he did worth 20m through 2013? depends on what the Fish would want. nolasco is ‘game on” many times, then will go out there and can’t get out of the 1st 2 innings the next time.. Inconsistent, but he does not have to rely on a collection of garbage to succeed like Wandy does, he has power stuff that can be nasty.
You snooze, you lose.
I think the Sox will sign either Oswalt or Kuroda. I think Jackson could end up with the Yankees. Sox also need to figure out if they wanna trade for Bailey or sign Madson. I guess the waiting is in hopes the prices drop. Seems they are playing teams and agents against each other. Whatever happened to a right hand bat? Maybe Cody Ross I guess. Might carry 3 catchers if they get Suzuki and Bailey both and Tek retires. Maholm/Saunders and Oswalt/Kuroda is what will happen I guess.
Don’t see the Yankees signing anyone to a multi-year deal this off season. They’ve found their payroll limit. It’s a large number, ~$210 mil, but they have a limit. They’ve spend, counting arb estimates supplied by this site, ~$195 mil. Next year they have $151 mil spent on 8 players. Having ~$60 mil available is a lot of payroll space, but spending ~$12 mil a year on Edwin Jackson probably isn’t the way Cashman will spend it.
I see Kuroda and Oswalt like Beltran, they will pick the team they want to play for. Jackson will just take the most money.